Patty Sage: Embracing Strength and Self-Expression Through Body Art

Join us as we reconnect with Patty Sage, a dynamic Reiki healer, cellist, dedicated mum, and enthusiastic CrossFit competitor. 
From surviving gruelling CrossFit competitions to fostering deep community bonds, Patty opens up about her journey of self-discovery and the profound lessons she's learned along the way. Her story isn't just about physical endurance; it's about showing up, pushing past internal barriers, and finding strength in the support of others. 

Patty's experiences in the intense world of CrossFit offer insightful perspectives on resilience and personal growth. Drawing on the philosophical principles from the Kybalion, we examine how our perceptions shape our understanding of success and failure. Patty’s compelling recount of a particularly challenging competition reveals how maintaining a positive attitude and seeing each new attempt as a fresh start can earn you both admiration and unexpected opportunities. 

But the conversation doesn't stop at CrossFit. We venture into the realm of body art as a powerful form of self-expression. Reflecting on personal stories and motivations behind getting tattoos, we explore how tattoos serve as visual narratives of emotional bonds, significant life events, and personal healing. 
From the balance of masculine and feminine energies to the importance of timing and self-acceptance, this episode is a heartfelt journey into embracing our personal stories through the transformative medium of body art. 
Don’t miss this enriching and multifaceted discussion with the ever-inspiring Patty Sage.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Hello, it's Nadine here, and I'm here with this week's episode of Life, Health and the Universe. And today all of my guests are special, but this one's got a little special place in my heart. Well, a big special place in my heart. I'm joined by Patti Sage. Hi, Patti.

Speaker 2: 0:22

Hello, thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 0:24

I'm so happy to be here oh yeah, I'm really excited to have you here again. Patty is dialing in from canada. Um, a little intro. You're a reiki healer, a cellist, a mom of two babes. You're uh, nothing's changed in your crossfit world apart from you're becoming even more of a badass, and the one very special thing we've done together so far is that you helped me to birth the podcast. So you were my very first guest, and here we are, two years on. I messaged you a couple of months ago and said will you be a guest again? And you were like what will we talk about? So all will be revealed. I found a topic, she found it on me. The big reveal on the topic Let me hand over to you and tell us a little bit about you. I've just realized I've got my. I haven't got my headphones plugged in. It doesn't make any difference. There it is, it's more for the feedback. So there you go. Hopefully we won't get feedback.

Speaker 2: 1:35

Oh, fantastic. No, it's beautiful, you sound great and thank you so much for having me. Dear friend, it's nice to be back. It's been amazing to watch your trajectory as well over the last two years. It's hard to believe that was our first podcast and um, you know you're helping a lot of people out there with what you have to share and the people you bring on, so thank you. So what was the question?

Speaker 1: 2:02

well, let let's have a recap on, like the things that we talked about in the first and our last, our last and our first podcast, the last podcast that we did together, the first ever for Life, health and the Universe. We talked about CrossFit, motherhood and spiritual healing, and we've both been watching each other on insta and we stay in contact. You always send me beautiful birthday messages, which I love. They big, send big, give me big smiles. Um, we talked about all of those things, but things change, evolve, grow and, as we do so, what's been happening? Let's just have a bit of a catch-up. Crossfit, yeah, what's going on there?

Speaker 2: 2:51

it looks like you're going from strength to strength I, I guess it's just been chipping away at it and now getting into the competitive space. I mean, there's so much to be learned from in there and I still rank as the anchor queen when it comes to individual comps like someone's got to do it. But you know what it's all about going and showing up and seeing what you can do, and there's a mutual respect in that realm of everyone who's just grinding it out beside you, doing their best, rep for rep, and there's a, there's an understanding there. You know of the discipline, of the grit, the mental game, the tenacity, the challenge, uh, physical struggle, and we're all in it together really, um, so that's been such a great teacher. And to learn about where, where you can show up and where you can't fake it, um, there's no hiding in a comp, right? So not that I've ever had to, but it does reveal your weaknesses and areas of improvement and all you got to do is just lean in and do your best, which I think is the whole metaphor for show up, lean in, do your best, get out of your head, be present and breathe.

Speaker 2: 4:31

That's our podcast. Yeah, yeah, they're the hot tips for today listening everybody?

Speaker 1: 4:34

um, doing it with other people makes a massive difference, doesn't it like that? Um, they carry you along, they help you get out of your own head. You just focus on doing what you're doing. It's definitely a different experience when you're doing it on your own. I do it on my own mostly now, and I just kind of dabble. I don't do half as much as I used to do and I'm kind of like just get in there, do what you can do, like you're still doing, all right, but the mental chatter is different, like there's a whole bunch of internal negotiation that goes on. Will I scale? No, don't be silly, you don't need to scale. Just see how you feel. Like that's all the shit that goes on in my head, which, yeah, it's different when you're doing it with a group of people and, yeah, it's different when, you're doing it with a group of people and yeah it's interesting.

Speaker 2: 5:28

You're held accountable in a way you know. And two, there's a lot of compassion to be revealed in that.

Speaker 2: 5:40

Everyone's in their own head you know, Everyone's nervous, everyone's sizing up, everyone's worried that they can't do it. You know, and there will always be somebody more advanced than you, someone stronger than you, someone better than you, despite how far you've come. And I think, like the aspect of grace to be given and to remember is that people who do CrossFit are a small subset of the population. It is inspiring and it is challenging and you just you get into this realm and in the peripherals, you know, you're seeing everybody else do CrossFit and sharing their games, posting on social media with the things that they're proud of, because, like never in a million years did we ever think that we could do this kind of stuff, much less in our you know, not at our peak right In your 30s, in your 40s, in our you know, not at our peak right In your thirties and your forties and your fifties. And it instantly reveals the comparison wound um which is the gift in all of it?

Speaker 2: 6:59

Right, because, like you, when it becomes your world and all you see in your peripherals, it's just like consumption. We are responsible for the consumption of nutrition, what we put in our bodies, how much we hydrate, etc. But there's also a consumption from an emotional, mental and, if you have it, spiritual level, right, like, what are you looking at every day in your social feed? What are you re? Do you read the news? Do you not read the news?

Speaker 2: 7:36

Um, what are you speaking about with people in your community? Right, and how are you speaking to yourself? Like it's all one ball of twine and that we just happen to access through this sport and in the end, again, we're going to, like, drive it back to, to the individual journey, and the whole metaphor for for this podcast, for this life that we're living, is to come back to you, right, to what kind of route do you want to act from? From lack, from comparison, from inadequacy, or from self-belief, from abundance, from positive self-talk, from grace, from understanding that a failed rep is part of the process to growth, right, and to checking your ego in the end. So it's, don't take yourself for granted, and whoever's listening to this. We just happen to speak in the realm of CrossFit because that's how we relate. But this is for anything, anything that you want to go for, anything you want to achieve and push yourself to beyond your comfort zone, right? Um, if that's sport, public speaking, writing, um a change in lifestyle, a change in how you speak to yourself, you know, all you need is just the willingness and the commitment to try something and see what happens. We went on a bit of a tangent there.

Speaker 1: 9:40

That's the beauty of these things. Yeah, yeah, that's going well, you're enjoying, yeah, yeah. So it's going well, you're enjoying it, you're crushing it actually, oh no, yeah, oh, thank you.

Speaker 2: 9:50

Yeah, it is going well. I learn every day.

Speaker 1: 9:52

And you feel like you're still making progress. I think that's one of the beautiful things about CrossFit.

Speaker 2: 9:58

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 10:01

Yeah, there's always something to strive for which can bring up some stuff. You talked about how we can perceive it. Do we perceive it as failure or growth? And I've just read a book, and you've possibly heard of it, the Kybalion, which is the seven hermetic principles, and it has, uh, one of the principles is about opposition. Well, they're all kind of like and they basically say that all things are the same, but there's just different degrees. They're just at different degrees. So hot and cold are the same thing, but they're just at different degrees, right, good and bad, happy and sad. Um, so you know, yeah, it's almost like they're on a continuum and so it's kind of like, yeah, your perception or your energy or your vibration can affect where on that continuum you are, and it can change from day to day. From what you're experiencing in your everyday life as well, like can be reflected in how you're feeling about what happens when you're in the gym. Yeah, maybe that was a little bit of a turn, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 11:21

Well, it's the relational aspect that you have to a movement, to to. Yeah, like you said, hot, cold, like because we're in a 3d reality, right, and these meat soups, right, these were huge, right, these we're here for having a human experience. It's eloquent, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 11:47

um yes, and so we, we, we have to enter duality and understanding that you can't understand cold until you understand hot. It is only with, with our narratives and our judgment, that we make it either good or bad, unpleasant or pleasant. Right, and that's actually going to take us a lot into what we'll be talking about later with the practice I have when I'm being tattooed and so it's all. A teacher, teacher and I think, before we close on the CrossFit part, like I was in a comp earlier this year, a master's comp, and the last event of the day was the chipper and it was bar muscle-ups, was was part of it, I think 15, and I was so fatigued at that point and I I just figured out bar muscle ups two weeks before and just sought to chicken wing my way up to it as best as I could, and it was. I got two out of probably 25 attempts and it's at the beginning of the chipper.

Speaker 2: 13:06

So here I am no rep, no rep, no rep, and that's the whole mental game in this is um, I could sit there because the time of the event is going to elapse, right, 12 minutes will elapse and something will happen. In that time I can show up, be in my head, be super anxious and nervous and judgmental, and every no rep I get, I can beat myself up. I can carry that energy into the next attempt, right? Or I can just keep trying and every rep is net new, right? That the last failed rep has no bearing on what's going to happen with this next rep, if I can frame it that way. And whether I sit there and pout and beat myself up and chide myself, um, or I go, okay, let's just try again, do your best. This time you're going to think about, you're going to isolate the hips. This time you're going to think about the kip. This time you're going to take a breath and a pause before you attempt and not rush into it. It's very difficult in a comp setting because like one second pause feels like five, you know, and all around me my other heat mates, my competitors, are now 30 to 40 reps ahead of me into other movements in the chipper.

Speaker 2: 14:31

So that's a mental game as well, and really it was my relational aspect to a bar muscle-up. I tell you I had the biggest smile on my face the entire time. What am I going to do? You know, and people are cheering me on and part of it is a bit of a pressure Cause. I'm like, oh, like I I'm failing these reps and I'm letting these people down, or you know, they're doing for me what I would do for them if I were sitting in the audience, because we all know that this is hard, and I tried to really take a smile into every single rep and um, and I obviously didn't get them. I had the best time and here's the funny thing is that the equivalent you could have done one bar muscle up or did three chest to bars Right, but I can't do a chest to bar. I get fatigued and grippy, but I was failing so many of my bar muscle-ups but the chest was making contact.

Speaker 1: 15:48

So did they count.

Speaker 2: 15:50

Did they count? They did. Yeah, my judges went. You know what? That's a chest-to-bar. So really I was just doing very, very fancy chest-to-bar pull-ups with a lot of effort, lot of effort, um, and interestingly enough, you know, it was that attitude and that the relational aspect I had to a bar muscle up, which caught the attention of one of the other competitors who asked me to be in um a partner comp, um just recently, right, and this guy's a beast. Uh, he, he is a very um seasoned and um, we'll take this pause. We're going to edit this pause out, because I can't think of the word pauses are okay experienced, experienced crossfitter who's been competing for a long time.

Speaker 2: 16:49

And I remember he came up and asked me and I just looked well, I mean he asked me over Instagram, but I mean I still looked behind my shoulder as if like me, like who is he talking to? You're asking me. And he said, yeah, you know, because I know he's partnered with stronger athletes in the past, way more proficient than I am, stronger than I am and he said, yeah, I've been with them, but you know, it was, it was your attitude and your mentality and your your just no quit. Um, I'd rather be in the trenches with that than with someone who's sulking and beating themselves up and carrying it from event to event. Um, you know. So I I think there's more than what we measure as success, as winning, and what truly is the connective beautiful, you know, um link between us as humans is just the experience, it's the value system, it's it's how we approach life and if that aligns and we did have the comp and we ended up making the podium- so it's my first podium yeah, anchor queen no more.

Speaker 1: 18:18

Yeah um, that was yeah, your experience as well. Like we, sometimes we go through those things right and well, we can often look back and sort of see, oh, there was the, there was the gold in that, there, in that experience. But the gold isn't always the gold that you think it's going to be right, you don't know. No, um, yeah, it's, it's. It's in hindsight that that, yeah, you don't, you didn't know that you were being seen for that person, but that was what shone through right.

Speaker 2: 19:02

I was just sitting there, you know, and my kids came to watch me for that event, and they just for 15 minutes like yeah, take a running start at the bar, okay.

Speaker 2: 19:14

Well, there she goes again. You know she's no quitter, but that's just it. That's the gold, is the lesson? The gold is is the is the takeaway.

Speaker 2: 19:25

And even after that, you know, I went up to my kids and a big part of me felt some shame and like I'd let my kids down and you know they're not. They had to sit there and watch mommy fail, rep after rep. But really the lesson was okay. Did mommy win? No, what did mommy do? Well, she kept trying. Okay, did mommy have, like you know, a pouty face on? Because, like my kids are very young right now and they're learning so much about their identities and themselves and what success looks like. And it's often in this, the societal box, right, and there's a bit of perfectionism that gets handed down generationally, like subconsciously, so to show them that failure is not failure and that I had a whole box of people cheering for me. Um, through the 15 minutes, you know, and therein lies the lesson, like we, just you just don't give up, you just do your best. You smile, you take a breath, you take a pause people will always be there to hold you and support you.

Speaker 2: 20:44

Mm-hmm yeah, mm-hmm, yeah. And so it's okay, you know, it's okay to miss the ref, it's okay to fail. It's the experience we didn't give up. Right, I'm going to learn, I'm going to get stronger and I'll try again, you know. So we were going back to um the book, you read and understanding the aspects, and and what did you say?

Speaker 1: 21:13

it was a spectrum or the yeah like a degree, like the degree at which one is, yeah the Like. So, okay, hot and cold are the same thing, but they're just at different degrees. So, if you want to get, if you're hot, you want to get cooler. If you're cooler, you want to get warm, and so it's the same thing. Right, it's on the same continuum, but they're just different. Yeah, yeah, that's.

Speaker 2: 21:51

And in some instances they're actually the same vibration. Yeah, because if you look at, they say, anxiety and excitement are actually the exact same vibration. Right, it's just your relational, it's your narrative around it, it's your definition of what that vibration is and that's you know where we start to look into equanimity and and the work that we do, and I understand it through vipassana meditation. Right, where you're looking at sensations we have craving and aversion that we usually steer towards right. I want more of that. I don't want more of that.

Speaker 2: 22:35

Right, pleasure and pain, hot and cold. Right, can we get to a spot where we're practicing equanimity in that it's neither good nor bad, it just is Right, right, hot if it becomes uncomfortable for someone and they start having an aversion to hot. Now they want to get cooler. Right, instead of judging it as a bad thing. Can, can we recognize hot for its qualities?

Speaker 2: 23:16

For it's the feeling on its, on your skin, the feeling in your body, for how it radiates, um, the prickliness, prickliness of it, if there is any right and we just view those qualities as is and accept them fully and not resist them? Same as cold, there is still a prickliness on your skin, but it has now come through cold right. Can we appreciate and accept its crispness, its coolness, right and at some point it's numbing quality for what it is, and not judge it? Can you be with this? That is the whole lesson. Can you be with this? That is the whole lesson. Can you be with your external circumstance, regardless? And when you get into that space of total acceptance and surrender, without trying to change it, without trying to control it, and make and have your narrative, you make it something, then you are at peace, which brings us a segue really into what we wanted to talk about today, exactly. Yeah, it's tattooing.

Speaker 1: 24:37

Yeah, which I've, I've had this, um, I have had this idea for a while. I've, I've thought about, um, uh, inviting a group or you know two or three guests on to talk about body art and our experiences and what, what kind of drew us to having these things done. Because I had a personal observation I've got a few tattoos and I'm I have to say, I'm a little bit envious of you because you keep getting them and I'm like it's just not the right time of you because you keep getting them and I'm like it's just not the right time, like I put that out there and when any one given point in time, I am either healing a crossfit injury or a tattoo, or both.

Speaker 2: 25:22

So yeah, we're right on point.

Speaker 1: 25:24

Yeah, something I really observed about myself, like when I had the tattoos that I've had. I didn't really think about it. It was like I just want to get tattoo right and like, well, that's kind of where I was. Then in hindsight I kind of see something a bit different. But two and a half years ago I stopped drinking and I started to observe, you know, in behavior, just in general, behavior like like drinking is alcohol, it's like seeking a shift from what I was currently feeling to do something else.

Speaker 1: 26:05

It's like, you know, seeking a shift by going to pick up your phone when you, you know, you've been thinking about a whole bunch of things and then you just want to, you just want to shift away from it.

Speaker 1: 26:15

And I noticed in myself, um, I started thinking I want to have, I want to get another tattoo, and I and it was almost like um, seeking that shift right, it was like, um, yeah, and I didn't go and get another tattoo, like I kind of sat with it and thought about it and, you know, over a period of time, and just didn't, didn't eventuate, um, but I just found that, that I found that really interesting, like as a personal observation, that it was like am I trying to remove myself from something? What is it I'm seeking in the experience of having a tattoo? Is it like I'm trying to change myself? I'm trying to just move out of what I'm feeling right now? So that was kind of my inspiration for wanting to find out more and just hear from other others about what their own experiences have been. Is it to do with body image? Yeah, is it to do with an initiation of some sort? And you've been really like I love your, the posts that you put on facebook and we can put a link if you like.

Speaker 1: 27:32

I mean, it's kind of a personal page, but if you are not, facebook, instagram, um, about your experiences, the poetic nature of your uh, sharing, and so yeah, I love it it's just got so much beauty and you know, we can have this kind of perception of we see someone with lots of tattoos and it can feel, um well, it's that spectrum again, that that continuum of aggressive beautiful. Yeah, like that kind of it. It can be quite full-on, but there's so much beauty in it and I think that you really carry that beauty because of the way that you speak about your experience thank you.

Speaker 2: 28:24

oh well, thank you. So much it and tattoo, the art of tattooing too, has there have been so many association like societal associations over the years that it has changed so much in context and it's more socially acceptable now. Right, and at the end of the day, is a body modification right akin to a piercing, um, plastic surgery, anything that we're doing to change our bodies to as an expression? Okay, I think it's quite an iceberg because we're looking. What I'm interested in looking at is the root of of why someone would um entertain having body modification, like on a very minuscule level, like you're saying, like it could. It's just a change. It's like a fun thing, right, it's a nose piercing, it's a little tattoo. It's some people just, you know, get tattoos. To get tattoos, it's like, oh, that looked fun, that was on a flesh seat and I liked it because I like dogs, you know, and that's fine enough, right, I like butterflies, right, like it could just be something to do, and now you have it and it's an instant gratification in a way and something really cool. It's like a haircut, right, you wake up you're like, oh care now, right, um, and it can be from that spectrum, um to something that is incredibly deep and meaningful and a fur that, for me, anyways, what I can say to speak to, is like another form of expression of my truth. Um, I worked at a tattoo shop for a short amount of time, which was one of the most beautiful experiences to understand the tattoo industry and community and tattoo culture. Um, and also like I understand what it's like from an artist's perspective, and everyone I was at the front desk and everyone coming in through the door, you know, had their reasons for getting a tattoo. A lot of them, you know, have an emotional attachment to it, right, whether it be a memoriam tattoo or they've survived cancer, right?

Speaker 2: 31:22

Tattoos that are matching to signify a bond between two people, tattoos to represent a very significant part of somebody's journey or something that meant something to them. So it becomes a way of getting to know someone without having hear them speak. You know, a visual representation of of what what's important to them, of what's important to them, which I find really beautiful, and I would say it can be a big part of someone's healing process, because this is forever. I mean, like now we have tattoo removal, but it is something that you are committing to for yourself, whether it be sort of fun and in the moment and just like a whatever thing to you know, something that you feel strongly about, that moves you, that captivates you, that represents you strongly about, um, that moves you, that captivates you, that represents you. And then we also too you're right, get into the, the cultural context, right, like, if you look at the Maori and um Polynesians, right, like, those are rites of passage, so there's, they're very sacred.

Speaker 2: 33:01

So the meaning of something and the free will that somebody has to choose it, it really just comes from what motivates them. And you know you were, you were alluding earlier to like, do I just want to get this to have it? You know, is it a distraction in a way, or is it like a quick fix or is it like a, a short term? You know, thrill, yeah, right, yeah, cause it's very accessible these days. Like, I don't think there's a right or wrong about it. Um, for me personally, I've not had that sort of experience. Uh, the tattoos that are adorned on me have very deep meaning and are all symbols of my journey and my value system and I just really appreciate it as an art form. It is unapologetic, it is in your face because you can't. There's no hiding this now right.

Speaker 1: 34:02

Are you going to run out?

Speaker 2: 34:06

I am. The next is the forehead the scalp, yeah, the scalp, where we're gonna have to go?

Speaker 1: 34:17

yeah, the scalp. So do you have any um, just on a like a um more basic level, do you have any limitations to where you will go? Like you know, some people say that they won't go any further than their collarbone, they won't tattoo their neck or hands. Do you have any limitations with that? Do you have any rules or are you just like?

Speaker 2: 34:41

The fact that I am this tattooed already is I've passed many limitations. Yes, I started with one sleeve and that was going to be it, and I never thought I'd get to two. And then I never thought I'd get to chest tattoos. And then I never thought I'd get to my legs, you know anything. And then I did my legs. I was like, okay, well, nothing past, you know, I can still wear skirts or dresses and there'll be nothing there. But now that's all gone. So I, I would say no, what I have right now is still coverable. Like I haven't gone to hands or throat or neck quite yet, and that would take some thinking. But at at the same token, you just, you never know right, you never know.

Speaker 2: 35:38

Never say never. You never know. I would assert like let life surprise you, let inspiration take hold when it does. And, and an attachment or a commitment or, you know, a limitation in your words may not be applicable at that time. Like that, I never, even on a greater span, I never thought I'd be this tattooed, I never thought I'd be this strong and fit and I never thought I'd be a healer. Right, if I had let those limitations and that, that self-talk and belief system you know, dictate where I am today, instead of staying open to my experience and letting life unfold and letting life put the things in front of me that it has, I would not be this entity. You know, we would not be speaking on podcasts. It's just really something. So, um, yeah, no, I do have two more projects planned, um, tattoo wise, but who knows, I could be a fabulous old tattooed bitch by the end of it. Who knows? Wait and see everybody. Let's give us another two years for the next podcast, do you?

Speaker 1: 37:06

yeah, they're just emblems yeah, and I would love for you to um share, if you're open to it, some stories that you have um. But question I do have for you is um. I know that I've spoken to some people that have been tattooed and they they use the cream you know, like that, anise the numbing cream, do you do that?

Speaker 1: 37:37

yes, and I don't think you can get yeah, you don't get a hold of it super easily here and I've had these and and you've kind of touched on this um, being in the moment with it and feeling the, you know, experiencing it. And I tried that when I was having my. I've got a half sleeve and I had it done over three sessions and I tried like I tried different things each time, but when I tried actually being in it and focusing on the feelings and stuff, I got really felt really sick, like I thought, oh shit. Like I thought, oh shit, I'm gonna vomit. It was really intense and I got through it, but I actually found when I was talking and I was there with distraction but no creams or anything.

Speaker 2: 38:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's such a great question and it's been one that I've noticed come up a lot lately in today's tattooing world and I mean, like it's gone so far. Rappers, uh Drake, went, or something, had multiple artists work on him while he was under anesthesia to do large scale projects, right, and I think, like it is an individual choice. Um, there, there, there's sort of that OG mentality. It's like no, you got to earn it, right, you got to grit through it. You have to, you know, bite down on the leather strap, um, to earn this tattoo. And the thing is, and and there's a bit of, you know, glory in it and there's a bit of glory in it and there's a bit of that was the toughness behind getting a tattoo.

Speaker 2: 39:35

However, now there's a lot of tattoo artists out there that just like advocate Like there's no shame in using a numbing cream if you find this too intense, and that gets back to like really honoring and listening to your body. And you don't know where somebody's at with their pain tolerance, their relational aspect to pain. If they're tattooing an area where there was some trauma because some people do get tattoos over self-harm scars you know that they just want to transform and there are different parts of the body that are a lot harder and more sensitive and painful to tattoo than others. And so who's to say, um, uh, I have gotten feedback from tattoo artists, that, from tattoo artists that you know, it does help the process. Um, because now the patient number one is or not the patient sorry, that's my clinician talk the the client number one is not expressing, you know, duress, um, or having you know their physiological reaction to pain, with sweating breath, picking up, squirming, asking for breaks, that sort of thing, so they can continue their work. They're more comfortable, they're relaxed and open to their process and present in that way, their process and present in that way.

Speaker 2: 41:11

Also, too, it is very, as a tattoo artist, what I've heard from my friends. You know, there's a degree of I need to do my job and pull this line on the skin, or, you know, shade in, and it's a very. It's an art of precision, because you can't erase anything, you know, once you've put it on the canvas, and being focused, but also having empathy for the person on the table who is expressing their pain, and a sense of obligation and almost guilt. That's just like oh, I'm so sorry, I'll try and move through this faster or having to check in with them. Like, do you want to continue? We can take a pause. Like the last thing I want for you is to be in this much pain. Right, like it's a balance between the two people on the table and it's very intimate, um, so if a numbing cream can help both, I don't see why not.

Speaker 2: 42:21

Um for myself. Personally, I've been through tattoos where I've not used numbing cream and I've been through tattoos where I have, because, um, um it's this, the places, um, the areas that I was tattooing were a lot more sensitive. They were creating spasms in me. Um an emotional release as well. You know, you get tattooing over organs and um right, ribs and and areas that have referring sensation to other areas. Right, like I, in some aspect, I've paid my dues because of how tattooed I am. Like I have nothing to prove. I I am on the table regardless.

Speaker 2: 43:07

Um creating something with my artist. So it's listening to my body and honoring that without and asking for what I need. I think that's like a big thing too for everyone in the audience, right, like asking for what you need. It's it's empowering to be able to do so and to make your choice. So I think it's up to the person and what they're needing. You know they could be under there's so many um um variables as well. They could be incredibly underslept because they were stressing out about the tattoo the night before. So they're going to be more sensitive. Or if it's a woman, she could be in a part of her cycle, you know where her body is a lot more sensitive and reactive to discomfort and pain. You know, somebody could be stressed out. Who's to say so?

Speaker 1: 44:11

yeah. Yeah, and some people enjoy. I've never been offered any kind of pain relief, like I don't know if in Australia they actually do that. I'm not sure. Um, like it's kind of one of those things where some people, some tattoo artists, might have it available, but it's kind of like under the things where some people, some tattoo artists, might have it available, but it's kind of like under the table.

Speaker 1: 44:34

I don't know if that's changed yeah, since I've had a tattoo, but like I would totally, I would totally use it if I was gonna have it.

Speaker 2: 44:42

There are. There are numbing sprays. There are numbing. Oh, absolutely yes, it's if option, right, Some some do keep it in the studio a numbing spray, so you do have to break the skin surface in order for it to yes to get into the deeper layers of that first, and then, they'll spray during the break and then it will help.

Speaker 2: 45:12

Um, there are creams available in north america that are fda approved and it's it's a prep, yeah uh, done by the client before they come in. Yeah, um, and they use that for the microblading and stuff for cosmetic tattooing yeah, right, yeah so have you experienced, uh like?

Speaker 1: 45:35

I've uh known people who have had like actually a post tattoo because of the extent of the tattoos they've had and the um what? The thing that made me think of it was when you said that people go under completely and have like multiple, that your body actually goes into some kind of shock from the process. Have you had that experience, especially with like your big, like the big one? You've got big, complete full back tattoo, right Back piece?

Speaker 2: 46:08

I have, yeah, because, like, whether you know you can feel it or not, you are still putting your body under stress, right, it has the wisdom to know that something's being, you know, cut and there's a wound there, yeah, right. And also, too, if you're using numbing cream, that will wear off and then the post sensation will come in, right. So it is a stressor that you're putting your body under and it's going to have its response, and there's fatigue right from lying on a table and hours of tattooing. So I have been in those situations where, not complete shock, but you know, I go into extreme shivering Even as, like, my artist is wiping down everything and we're done and we're about to bandage up the sensation of the, the coolness of the spray and the antiseptic that they're putting on me, oh, that's more, it's torture, right, and I'll shake violently, um, and you know, my body's telling me that it just needs time to recover and rest.

Speaker 1: 47:28

At that point, yeah, you've touched, it has to catch up at some point, yeah you.

Speaker 1: 47:35

So since we spoke two years ago, you've had, uh, lots of adornments. Um, it's uh and and like. Obviously you've been through a personal journey with your parenting relationships, like we talked about that it two years ago, so there's been a whole bunch of healing. Um, your career has changed, like there's lots of stuff. We're always evolving, right. Um is there and you've kind of touched on um, the fact that their stories, your, your tattoos are like stories. Is there anything would you share with us one example of that? Would you be open to doing that?

Speaker 2: 48:20

I would love to Thank you. Yeah, so a lot of my healing work is tied to the divine feminine and, um, there's so many beautiful aspects within it that help us understand ourselves and peel back layers, um, and to go into our darkness and and derive the wisdom there, you know, to take responsibility for our wounds, really our self-worth wounds, our not enough wounds, our too much wounds, and in a very intuitive, flowing, creative but real way. And, um, almost every tattoo on my body is an homage to that. Uh, hence all the florals you know, um, and there's, they're powerful in that way because, you know, we tend to live in a society where, when you get someplace, if you've achieved something, if you've done your work to overcome pain, right, it came with a lot of blood, sweat, tears, suffering, exhaustion, etc. And that's a big part of it. For sure, that's what helps us grow and evolve and understand just truly how strong we are. But if there's the hard way, there is a gentle way, and I learned that through divine feminine. So much about that, understanding that all beings have a feminine essence. It's regardless of gender, sexuality, um, it's.

Speaker 2: 50:18

We have a masculine side and a feminine side that we tend to not listen to as much right and that's that's receiving. You know it's not doing. If the masculine is doing, then the feminine is being, and when we stop doing and we stop moving and stop producing and you're forced to be, what's there, what is there for you to sit with, breathe with, look at and oftentimes it's stuff that we don't want to look at and can you really be with yourself and love and accept all of it, the shadow, the light. You know the good, the bad um, the parts of yourself you don't like and the parts that you're learning to love. So these tattoos are um, I have a lot of roses. That is the ultimate sign of the of the feminine. Um, perfect timing, you know. Blow um beauty, love. Uh, roses bloom when they're supposed to right. It's all in the timing and the lesson there is to release control of how we think something should be, when we think something should happen. Um, it is only we humans with our minds and um.

Speaker 2: 52:07

At my place of work, we don't call ourselves control freaks. We're control enthusiasts, we're very enthusiastic. It is only with our enthusiasm. You know that we're like well, I got it. This should have been here, and there's a lot of judgment in that right Like should have been here, should have done this. Should have been here and there's a lot of judgment in that right Like. Should have been here, should have done this, should happen in this time. I need to do, to do the rose is not like.

Speaker 2: 52:31

Okay, june 25th, that's my bloom date. So here's the work back schedule. And therefore the sun needs to be here at this angle for this amount of time, and then the rain must come in at you know this amount of time, and then the rain must come in at you know this temperature for this long. You know, and if I, somehow, if I don't meet this June 25 deadline, I'm failing somehow. Right, and all the stressors, and then stuff comes out.

Speaker 2: 53:05

No, the rose opens and unfurls exactly when it's meant to and it does so beautifully, with so much grace and strength, and it's not forced, and yet it's worth the wait. You know, we all grow where we're planted and we all unfurl and room in our own time. It's, it's only we humans, with our narratives and our shoulds, that we impose a great deal of suffering. Um, because we can't be with our circumstance, right, it's, and that that suggests an aspect of failure, instead of being with your process and really trusting the timing of everything that's happening in your life, right? Um, and that's so much about what divine feminine has taught me. Um, divine feminine has taught me, um, and uh.

Speaker 2: 54:16

I do have, however, my first masculine piece, and it's the tiger on my thigh. Um, or as I call it, my tiger, and he was a big boy and, you know, for some reason felt very compelled to have a sign of the masculine on the right side, which is the masculine side. Left side is feminine as a protective aspect. I don't know, let's just call to it it's, and who knows what else will be adorned as I continue on this journey, with everything that teaches me something every day. All the people, places, circumstances, things. It's all there to bring us back to ourselves in the end. So I'm very in the end. So I'm very fortunate and grateful to have artists who know me very well now and know my journey, one in particular she's tattooed about 80% of my tattoos with such great respect, instinct, instinct, artistry and care. Um, yeah, it would. I'm just very fortunate to be able to express myself in this way, um, with people who want to help me tell my story.

Speaker 1: 55:41

Do you think that? I heard, um, someone talking about a tattoo the other day and they didn't have a whole bunch of tattoos, but someone asked them about. It was in an interview and someone asked him about a tattoo that she had on her arm and what it symbolized, and he asked a question. The interviewer asked a question like did you have that there to remind you of something you already knew or something? He said something along those lines, almost like, almost like that discovery is all is well. It's that same kind of thing that we've talked about. Returning back to yourself like you do, this does that make?

Speaker 1: 56:24

the essence of it.

Speaker 2: 56:25

All right, yes yes, yeah, like that that you've already lived it and so the tattoos kind of bring it in and the answer was always there, you know the essence of you was always there, the story of you was always there, the value system of you was always there, um, and and it wasn't through the tattoo as a reminder to drive you towards that, but as a representation of what you already are yeah, uh, right, yeah, as um, it's almost like I heard this the other day and I was speaking with a beautiful friend about it, um, michelangelo, you know. They were asking him how did you create david through that humongous piece of marble, right? How could you even conceptualize it? And his answer was that, well, david was already there. I just had to chip away all the layers outside of it.

Speaker 2: 57:30

Right? That's the beauty in all of artistry that you are, as an individual being on this planet, um, with your experiences, with your, your own pain, with your own, your own understanding of this human experience, um, and what you want to bring into this world and what you're here to transcend by learning through it, it's already there. Actually, the answer was already there. That's the beauty of it. You need not go search out, it's within. So I wonder if that's what that question was by that.

Speaker 1: 58:25

Yeah, I think that's a perfect question. Was uh by that? Yeah, like I asked her about? Yeah, yeah, and I guess, like, once you have the, the pictures, they serve as reminders, right? So when you are in those moments where the 3d life might be giving you, you know, a hard time, then, though, you've got those reminders of actually who you are and and the beauty of what lays within what lays within.

Speaker 2: 58:56

It's a reclamation. It's a reclamation you know it's a. It's a reclamation of of who you were to begin with, before you forgot, and a reclamation of your power, a reclamation of your voice, of your own expression, and I mean it also looks really cool. It looks really fucking cool. Yeah, it looks really fucking cool. I wake up every morning and I go oh you, yeah, this is me. How cool. I wake up every morning and I go oh yeah, yeah, this is me, I'm cool about it, I forgot.

Speaker 2: 59:35

You know like I get to look at art all day and it is an unabashed statement and that takes courage too, right yeah?

Speaker 1: 59:52

Yeah, and, and that takes courage too right like yeah, yeah, we are. Well, we've hit. We've hit our hour, and I'm conscious of the time a little bit, simply because, speaking of adornments and body things, my I'm taking my daughter to have her ears pierced today.

Speaker 1: 1:00:05

I know it's her initiation, but I would, um, before we do come to a close, something that I'm curious about, because when I see someone who's tattooed and I've got tattoos as well, so people probably look at me and I don't even pay, like I don't even realize that people, like someone said to me. I was like, how are they going to? They were organizing a meet up and I was like how are they going to recognize me? And they're like are you kidding? Like you're fit, you've got gray hair and you've got tattoos. Like how are they going to miss you? And I'm like, oh right, yeah, that's how other people see me. When I see people with a lot of tattoos, I want to look, but then I feel like maybe they don't want to be looked at. How do you feel having uh?

Speaker 1: 1:00:55

you know so much body art. How do you feel about that? Do you mind people looking? Does? Sometimes you just want to tell them to f off or like do you just kind of accept?

Speaker 2: 1:01:08

that if I'm this tattooed people are gonna look yeah, uh, you know, and the more tattooed I get um, the more in the. I do notice that I'm being noticed right um by young and old alike, you know, and I think it is a responsibility, because it's it's just like I didn't Get these to not have people look at them.

Speaker 1: 1:01:40

Right, it's, it's, it's, but you didn't necessarily get them so that you know people did look.

Speaker 2: 1:01:48

Yes, so that people would look at me yeah, exactly, it's just it's your person like it's a personal yeah, yeah, um, I personally I don't mind it. I mean one. I'm representing local artists and because I do get stopped a lot and commented a lot on how high quality the work is. And I think too because of the stigma of tattoos in the past, like somehow you're a criminal or you're from the wrong side of the tracks in Chinese culture. So my parents are from Hong Kong and if you were tattooed it was because you were a criminal and that was their marker of how someone could recognize you and they would tattoo your last name on you, right? So there's like some stigma there and I find it to be an interesting challenge of that stigma to to show that that's actually not the truth, like you can be a very kind, approachable, benevolent, compassionate, you know, connective person or not, cause there are introverts. I get tattoos too and they'd rather just like not be seen and not have any of that. But like, um, that it's just me. You know this is Patty Sage. You either accept it or you don't, you either look or you don't. And to show that you know there's beauty in all ways, um, there's art in all ways and it's a great connective piece, because someone who sees me would make a lot of assumptions, perhaps, um, based on my on, on just being tattooed in general.

Speaker 2: 1:03:56

And you know, I'm also like a mother, I'm a, um, I'm a musician, I'm a linguist. You know I'm. I have a universe, I have two university degrees. I uh have you know the? The? The whole list goes on about what quote unquote success or like accomplishment is, uh, how it's measured societally. And you know someone that this tattooed possibly couldn't have that right, like that. I like challenging that aspect as well, that we can be whatever we want, we can. You can create whatever you want, you can express however you want, like, don't apologize, you can. You can embody every part of you, and that's the whole reclamation. Right, some parts of you will complement each other and some parts of you will contrast against others within, right, that's the whole beautiful messy experience that this being human thing is. And you know we're all going to die, die, that's the memento mori. Okay, we have this chance, hopefully, you know eight to ten decades on this planet, so why not live a little?

Speaker 1: 1:05:23

Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 2: 1:05:24

Go Do the thing. Yeah, do the. Thing.

Speaker 1: 1:05:47

I feel like it's the ultimate way of, kind of, you know, be drawing on that, well, potentially drawing on this, on your masculine energy, to you know, grit your teeth and do the hard thing, but you've, you've created this amazing beauty and you've, you're carrying it with you. You know this art on your body.

Speaker 2: 1:06:03

So it's kind of like that, that beautiful, um, yeah, play between the masculine and the feminine that's a marriage for sure, and and I mean like even I, I know you have to go um, but yeah, I was. We meant I was gonna get into equanimity and and that experience on the table outside of numbing cream that'll be the next one podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:06:26

That'll be the next one. Yeah, like it's. The masculine is. Yeah, like understanding, forming, flexing, you know, through this process, yet you have to tap into your feminine, which is release and surrender to this experience and um to flow with your sensations, to to be with the pain, um to be with the intensity of it, yet tap into that inner strength and that sort of mental fortitude that reminds you that everything is impermanent, which is the whole joke in all of this. As, as, as as the Buddhist practitioner who uses that sort of meditation on the table while she's getting tattooed, that everything is impermanent, I'm getting permanent ink put on me. So I don't know what the cosmic joke is in that, but there you have it.

Speaker 1: 1:07:23

So duality, duality. Hot and cold, yeah, beautiful. I love it. That's a perfect uh little uh clothes, I think. Thank you so much for joining us again. Hopefully it won't be two years before we do it again let's make this a little okay, a little shorter in between, because I've had such a blast here, yeah, me too. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you, patty, such a pleasure, thank you everyone for listening lots of love cheers, bye, lots of love.