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Life, Health & The Universe
Life, health and the universe are all connected. In a world where we are more connected than ever, we have become disconnected from ourselves. In this podcast, along with guests, I discuss ideas in a celebration of life, an exploration of health and some wonderment of the universe.
Contact Nadine: https://lifehealththeuniverse.podcastpage.io/contact
Life, Health & The Universe
Transforming Pain and Imbalance into Strength and Capability
Let us know what you thought of this episode!
From a childhood spent avoiding sports to becoming a powerhouse in competitive powerlifting and weightlifting, Erica Koo's journey is nothing short of inspiring. Known as "Stretch," Erica shares her story of transformation, including her fascinating work as a fascia stretch therapist. Discover how she switched from aerial hoop and powerlifting to mastering weightlifting and sprinting, all while championing a holistic approach to addressing pain and imbalance through fascia stretch therapy.
Get ready to be inspired as we explore the profound mental and physical benefits of strength training. Erica and I dive into overcoming personal hurdles, building mental resilience, and the journey from focusing on weight loss to celebrating strength and capability. With personal anecdotes and professional insights, we discuss the psychological aspects of athletic performance, emphasising the importance of mental toughness and confidence in weightlifting competitions. Learn how these principles of empowerment and body positivity can transform your mindset and performance.
We also uncover the powerful synergy between psychotherapy and personal training, highlighting Erica's innovative approach to holistic wellness. Hear how understanding a client's history and creating a safe, relaxing environment can optimise therapeutic outcomes. Erica shares her vision for blending psychology, personal training, and fascia stretch therapy, providing comprehensive care that boosts overall well-being.
This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone looking to elevate their fitness journey and mental health. Join us and take a step towards unlocking your full potential!
You can find Stretch's full profile in our Guest Directory https://lifehealththeuniverse.podcastpage.io/person/stretch-erica
Today I'm chatting with Erica Koo, also known as Stretch, and my plan is that throughout this episode, that's what I'm going to refer to you as Stretch. So welcome to the podcast. It's really great to have you here. We just had a tiny chat before we hit record, um, and stretch doesn't really know what she's in for because, basically, I someone who I train.
Speaker 1:One of my personal training clients recommended you as a guest, um, because her partners worked with you, um, and so I just basically emailed you and said do you want to be a guest? And you said, yes, so here we are, but you don't know anything about me and I only know a little bit about you, so we're gonna get to know each other. But obviously you know you came with a recommendation, so you're doing some really interesting work, based in sydney, and you are essentially a personal trainer and a fascia stretch therapist, hence the name. No, yeah, yeah. And you're also, um, an athlete, um, so you work in the air with some aerial hoop, which is also known as Lyra, and you're also a powerlifter and you hold Do you still hold? The record?
Speaker 2:I'm not quite sure. So those two are sports I used to do like I was quite passionate about a couple of years ago and then when COVID hit and the lockdowns hit, it made it very difficult to practice Lyra, so that became phased out, I think. Um, I did do it for about, I think, close to four years and I did maybe three performances at that time. So I was pretty big into that and I really really enjoyed it. Um, the powerlifting record, I'm not sure I think it. I think I held it for maybe two years and now they've changed federations. So, okay, I'm pretty sure there's. You know, I think I held it for maybe two years and now they've changed Federation. So I'm pretty sure there's. You know, there's new records being set all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I'm going to declare your amazing record anyway, because you weighed in when you were doing your, when you were competing in was it 2019? Um, weighing in at 57 kilo body weight 57 kilo body weight yeah, bench pressed 82 and a half kilos. That is solid. That's amazing. Like kudos, thank you, look at it like.
Speaker 1:So my background is as a personal trainer, which you've probably um gathered for because of who referred us um, and I have a background in competitive crossfit um, amazing yeah, yeah so a few years ago now, like I've, I'm retired and I just kind of dabble with a little bit of crossfit for um, you know my health and well-being and you know to challenge my body, but yeah, so like, obviously there's a connection there with that, in that competitive space, which I would be really keen to talk to you about. I feel like I've done a whole bunch of talking so far, so can you kind of give us a bit of a know, an intro of yourself, what you're doing right now and your work and that sort of thing?
Speaker 2:yeah, um, I always find it very difficult to talk about myself, actually, that's okay hard on.
Speaker 2:However, I will try my best um. So I used to be a competitive powerlifter, used to do a lot of lira. Most recently, I've been actually training and weightlifting. So because of your crossfit um, you'd probably understand it's like the snatch and clean and jerk um, so that's kind of been my new love, and I've also been learning how to sprint. So I've been doing a lot of sprinting in the past since maybe January. So I've been working with a coach to see how far I can push myself In terms of my work.
Speaker 2:I've been like a strength coach for probably like reaching eight or nine years now.
Speaker 2:I've been now running my own business in fascia stretch therapy and personal training for probably about four years.
Speaker 2:So the fascia stretch therapy is now probably what is primarily, uh, most of my work, um, and it's this amazing form of, like athletic manual bodywork therapy uh, that works very holistically, looks at the body in a very integrative manner, um, and, unlike you know, massage, which is more about isolated muscles. So if someone comes in and says my shoulder is really painful, um, the therapist might look at, let's say, their shoulder joint itself, uh, biceps, triceps, neck, anything else that's related to it. But I look at more. What other areas is that joint connected to and that can go as deep as things like the lower back and the hip on the opposite side of the body, and then you know, working from there to see whereabouts the body needs the most work and then creating balance across the body from that, yeah, yeah, cool, it sounds like really great work, and obviously you're working with a whole bunch of different people and I definitely want to delve into that because that's yeah, we, we want to like let people know about that.
Speaker 1:Um, but what I'm really keen to start with, because I feel like, look, it sounds like you're doing a whole bunch of really cool things in terms of challenging your own athletic potential and I wanna chat with you a little bit about that, because you didn't have a background in that kind of stuff when you were a kid, right, you weren't a competitive athlete, you weren't into sports or anything like that.
Speaker 2:No, quite the opposite. Yeah me too, no, no, quite the opposite. No me too, no, no, quite the opposite.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, me too, and what I you know. I guess it's really easy for someone who isn't maybe isn't even exercising yet, it's really easy to put someone like you or me on a pedestal and think that we're special, yeah, or that you know, um, that we're the lucky ones or I don't know um, but actually no, I. I really think it's important for people to know that that, yeah, the human potential is for anyone. So what, um? What was your kind of childhood like? Oh look.
Speaker 1:I don't want to go into it, like we don't have to go into any like deep stuff, but like in terms of your, when you said quite the opposite to to you know being a sports.
Speaker 2:So when I was a child, I was not very athletic. So, aside from you know things like climbing trees and you know playing on the playground, things like that, and I was very much into art. Like my parents used to say, I knew I learned how to draw before I learned how to walk, so that was really my thing. So creating things, reading, that's how I grew up. And then when I got into school, you know kids kind of get grouped into things that they're good at. So if someone's naturally athletic or if someone's naturally artistic or you know great at things like public speaking, that's how they get categorized and grouped in. And I went through a public school system. So I think I'm not sure about private school systems, but I know in public school systems, basically, you know you get put into PE classes, art classes, and if you're good at it, awesome. But there's not much room for nurturing the students who they either might not be interested and or they might have potential, but they haven't quite had the opportunity for that to show through yet. So you're kind of thrown in and it's like these people are really bad so we're not going to pick them as part of the team. Um, school carnival cool, you don't know how to swim awesome, well, you can just wait in the kids pool over there. So there was a lot about it where I identified with. I am not a very active person, I'm not an athletic person. This will not be for me. So as a result of it, I never tried, because you try a couple of times and then you get told that you're not good at it or you realize that you're not good at it and you can't compete against all these other children who either are naturally gifted and or they do all these extracurricular activities outside that's helped them nurture this skill. So I stopped, you know, enjoying PE, did what I could to get out of it and tried to nurture the things that I thought I was good at, which was the creative arts and the um like the linguistics. So you know things like reading and learning different languages and things like that um.
Speaker 2:And then there was a point in my I would say maybe university studies where I started really getting into weight training and sort of like weight lifting and becoming a little bit fitter. It didn't start off with the best intentions, because I actually initially started off with the intent to lose weight and I identified that as now, having been problematic because I was never fat or chubby. It was the sort of messaging I received socially and culturally which led me to be like, oh well, wait, maybe if I do a lot of cardio and eat less, I'll lose weight. So I hit a point where I was about 50 kilos and jumping on the scale and wondering how do I get down to even lower? Wow, yeah, and this was also back when social media was starting to come up, so things like Instagram and Facebook and there were more women who were starting to get into strength training and promote it as a thing that can be done by, you know, all genders, all types of people. So I started following these women who were incredibly strong, had these really I wouldn't say muscular, but just fit physiques, and I thought, oh, and they also had this messaging that was like you can't, it's not healthy to starve yourself to get down to a weight that you're then continuing to do that for, and something about that really resonated with me.
Speaker 2:So I started lifting weights and then, ever since then I think, I've sort of made my way into lots of different strength training programs and really started enjoying the fact that, oh, this is something I could be good at.
Speaker 2:I don't need to be perfect at it, but it's good for me, I enjoy it. I can see a progression, um, and I also really felt very empowered in my body for the first time. So, instead of trying to criticize it and feeling, you know, small and wanting to get smaller in, I would argue, ways that were not very good for me, I started feeling more empowered to be the way I was, and if this is the way my body looks because I'm performing and because I'm fueling um, then this is good. So, um, I think from then on, you know, I went on to, uh, you know, work through like an eating disorder and work through quite a few things, to come to here now, where a lot of it's very performance-based, like I love being able to challenge my body but also my mind. Um, I think you would understand from CrossFit, weightlifting and training is very much about the mind than it is just about the physical body.
Speaker 2:So that is now, I think, one of the reasons why I continue to train. It's the being able to observe what sort of thoughts and feelings come to mind when I am challenged and when there is a bit of self-doubt, and then being able to train that as well, as you know, trying to get stronger physically wow, that's so cool.
Speaker 1:What a what a journey. Um, a couple of things came up then and, oh gosh, yeah, it was really funny, like it really resonated for me because when I went to school I was also creative, but I was into drama, yeah, and I never got put on the team right. So I would try and never got, yeah, never got nurtured in sport, loved it, but I think it's such a fine line, isn't it like if you're not encouraged to do it, you just think you're not good enough, and I guess the teachers are not. They don't have the capacity to nurture. Um, and let's face it, teachers have favorites too. Yeah, I think that was my experience. Um, yeah, so I, I didn't get into it until I was in my late 20s and I think I actually did it for the same reason.
Speaker 1:I came to Australia and I dabbled here and there with a bit of aerobics and a little bit of strength training and I, um, came, came to Australia for a year and I went back to the UK and I'd put on some weight, yeah, and so I joined the gym to to lose weight. Same thing, but, yeah, and so it's kind of I fluctuated, I don't know. Oh, and then it wasn't until I was actually. So I kind of went, you know, in and out of doing exercise and it wasn't until I was 30 and I was working in a cafe and it was next door to a gym, yeah, and I was always kind of like, what can I do? Like, what can I do? Because working in the arts you don't get much work, you work in cafes, and I was like I could be a personal trainer, and that's really when it started. And then once, once I'd qualified as a personal trainer, I found CrossFit, um, but yeah, the.
Speaker 1:So it's really interesting what you said about the body image stuff, because obviously that was what. That was how I got into it, when I was trying to lose weight and it, it and I didn't. I mean, yeah, social media wasn't around, so it wasn't such a thing. I've actually found that more challenging in the last 10 years than previous. Previously and even at the beginning of CrossFit, there wasn't really that much social media. But it's interesting once you get more focused on performance and what your body is capable of in the gym and you know the numbers in terms of your strength and like what you're going to do when you're in the gym your body. Um, you're not focused on what your body looks like, but your body actually adapts and looks pretty good anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, Like you look athletic you look strong, you look healthy, you know all of those things that you're probably aspiring to. You know. But it doesn't really like I never go into the gym thinking I'm doing it because I want to look good necessarily um mind and body.
Speaker 1:So I I thought that was really interesting as well, when you were talking about, like challenging your body, but also what's going on in your mind when you're training and how you overcome those things. And I think that that was probably the biggest thing for me when I was doing CrossFit, as it got more and more competitive because we were kind of early adopters. So I went to the CrossFit Games in 2009,. So it was really quite small and it just grew after that and continues to do so, but it was my mind. It was the mind thing that got me in the end. It was like actually being competitive, felt quite lonely because you're out there to do as best as you can regardless of the other people around you, which didn't really sit with me very well but also the amount of self-doubt, like as other people start more and more people start doing it, and you know you start wondering whether you're actually good enough. And, yeah, that got me in the end.
Speaker 1:I have to say yeah, that was the stuff that got me. What have been some of your challenges and how have you overcome them when it's come to that sort of the mental game?
Speaker 2:so I think I also forgot to mention this at the beginning. I'm actually uh training to become a sports psychologist, like a registered sports psychologist.
Speaker 1:I saw that on your website. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm in my masters at the moment and even since starting my studies, it's been a bit of a well-worn, well wound of a journey in terms of what sort of techniques I can use on myself so that you know if I'm going to be working with people who are going to go through the same process of, you know, having imposter syndrome. You know, um, meeting self-doubt, um, you know they could be training for something for years and then the pressure of competition is what gets them, and I think it's been a really interesting process because I feel as if I've I challenged myself mentally in many different ways since starting this. You know level of study as well, um, and I used to be a very I still am a very anxious person, um, but performance anxiety used to be a really big thing for me when I was competing in powerlifting. Competitions really were very challenging, um, but most of it I was able to like. In particular, if you look at my, the day that I did my bench press record, I managed to overcome it and actually, you know, achieve what I set out to do. Um. You know, one of my mantras was trust my training, because whenever I would train, all these thoughts would come up and I would get very intrusive, negative visualizations of me failing away, because we all understand what that feels like. We understand what it feels like when you you know unwrap for a back squat, unwrap for a bench press, or you know, if you're going in for a snatch and you're anticipating the weight of what that's going to feel like in your hand. Sometimes that can work against you because in your mind you're thinking, what if it feels like the time I failed it? What if it makes me feel like I'm not going to be able to make it?
Speaker 2:So I do remember the one comp that did break me actually was there was. That was a competition at a state level where I was going to try and break my own bench press record and at the time, the under 57 category, um, some of the women who were competing in it really strong women, but basically people were saying, oh, erica, you're going to take first place because, like your opener, which is the first attempt for a squat, is heavier than all the other girls, you know third attempts, and that somehow placed more pressure on me. I think I let it get to me a little bit. Um, so I walked into that competition having done a lot of mental work. You, you know, I wrote down all my thoughts, wrote down all the reasons why this competition was going to go well for me, like how I was going to perform. There were a couple of training sessions leading into that competition where I failed quite a few of the top set weights and that impacted my confidence. And you know, unfortunately our brains are set up to look for threats. You know it's a protective mechanism for ourselves. If you have an anxious brain, unfortunately your threat center of your brain is even more sensitive to those things. So for me, whenever something like that used to happen, it provided more evidence for me to be like oh, this shows me that comp is not going to go well. So I remember, despite the fact that I try to tried to, you know, do quite a lot of mental work around it and look for all these signs and, um, be like no, look at the number of times you failed a weight but still managed to do really well. Look at the comps you managed to do really well.
Speaker 2:But I did go into that competition placing a lot of pressure on myself to perform really, really well. Um, I ended up bombing out and not making any of my squat attempts. So I actually failed all my squats. Um, yeah, so I, whatever bench press attempt I made on that day would not count. Um, and I remember coming off that third squat which I failed at the bottom, not able to come up, be like, oh, that's it, that, that's actually it. I have, I have nothing left. Um, but I did go on to still bench press 85, which was an unofficial record, yeah, which was, which was great. But I did walk away from that comp feeling as if I had failed myself but also failed my coach, that my mind had failed me, because it was almost as if all the negative visualizations of these intrusive thoughts I had had leading into the competition had somehow come true. Um, and that stayed with me for a long time.
Speaker 2:And then, I think most recently, I did a novice weightlifting comp and it's been maybe like four years since that. Um, poor competition performance. There was a lot to learn from that and one of the biggest things that has changed is my understanding of anxiety, my acceptance of it and, through its acceptance, my reframing of what it is. So, in the past, if I'd be anxious and nervous and I'd get all these negative visualizations and people who've been through it know how uncontrollable that is. You know you can't really tell yourself no, no, no, don't think about that, because then it actually makes it worse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, but anxiety and excitement, that level of arousal the main difference is the meaning that you attribute to that feeling in your body. So whereas previously it was I'm nervous, I'm gonna fail, this means I'm not gonna perform well, now it's oh, my body's actually getting me ready to do this really big thing. That's a heavy weight weight out there. I need this. So the most recent novice weightlifting comp I did, I actually lent into that a lot more and I was like, no, this is me getting excited, my body is, is ready, it's good, I just need to ride this out.
Speaker 2:I think that's one of the biggest things that has changed is my relationship with anxiety and just understanding and not trying to fight it so much, but leaning into it a lot more. And this is one of the things I've been trying to get my clients to do a lot, because even when I do fascia stretch therapy, if I work with like some of the athletes I work with a lot of it is around. They're carrying all their anxiety in their body because they've got a comp next week and part of it is going. This is your body gearing you up. Might be a little bit early, but it's not a bad thing to have this, you know. It shows that you care. It means your body's trying starting to produce this energy that you're going to need for the day to do this really big thing. That's clearly important to you. You've worked really hard for um and you kind of need this system so that you can perform really well. Otherwise the heavy weight's probably not going to come up in the same way.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, wow, yeah, that's, yeah, it's a great going to come up in the same way. Yeah, yeah, wow, yeah, that's, yeah, it's a great way to shift your perspective. The thing that one of the things that is quite challenging about competition, especially when you're doing weightlifting, is you have to kind of, so you have to anticipate what you want the outcome to be. And I kind of find that if I, if I you know go into a crossfit workout, or if I've gone into a crossfit workout in the past and someone say how many, how much, how long do you think it's going to take, or how much, I'd always say I don't know, I don't like to anticipate it, because if I judge too much and then I don't make it, then that mental, mental thing, you know, you're like, oh, I'm not keeping up with what I thought I was capable of, and so you get that negative self-talk or you might set the bar too low to keep you safe, because you know that's something you can do. So I used to try and keep it wide open.
Speaker 1:But when you've done a workout before, but when you've done a workout before, when you've done a lift before and you know what your, what your potential is and you're trying to push it even higher. It's it's hard to to have that kind of like. You have to have that goal in mind, but if you hang on to the, the goal and it fucks with your head, then it can really hold you back. And weightlifting, especially like you've got to be able to go out there and do something you've never done before. Yeah, that's part of the, the psychology of it right is like, yeah, you, you know, it's not just about your physical body, it's about like I've never done this before and getting over that hurdle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's intense.
Speaker 1:What are you? What is your weightlifting like? Are you competing in weightlifting now?
Speaker 2:I would eventually like to do some sanctioned competitions. I've only ever done two novice ones, but yeah, I think once I finish my master's I would actually like to compete in some sanctioned ones and see how far I can take it. Yeah, I do love the competing aspect. What you said before really resonated with me about you saying, with weightlifting you actually have to go out there and do something you've never done before, and I agree with this so much. Um, because there's always uncertainty with competition.
Speaker 2:You can train, like you know, just to use the example of the olympics, you can train for four years for this really big goal and have a very good measure, or baseline measure, of what you're capable of, but then you show up at a competition and you've got the pressure, you've got the fact that it's a completely different environment. You've got jet lag. You've got the fact that it's a completely different environment. You've got jet lag. You know there's all sorts of different things that make it different from what your ideal training conditions were.
Speaker 2:And I think you know in psychology they talk a lot about, you know, sports confidence and what they call robust sports confidence, and that's a sense of confidence an athlete can have, that is controllable that will remain stable across different environments.
Speaker 2:Um, so you know, if you've got external, uncontrollable, uh, sources of sports confidence it could be things like weather, um, you know, like the platforms, um, the shape of the bar, like the knurling on the bar, things like that and if that's your only source, then you're less likely to feel confident in even in your own abilities to perform if you're put into an environment when that's all gone. So we, we want to be able to build up more things that are, you know, maybe a bit more internal, a bit more controllable, that they can always rely on and also draw from multiple sources of sports confidence as well. Um, but I also think where what's fascinating about weightlifting and what I love about it is you can miss your opener that you could do with your eyes closed and then still come back on your third one and do a pb lift, and I feel like there is there's so much about weightlifting that is mental.
Speaker 1:You have to let go of what you just did, totally yeah, and then you just have to what it what matters most is the bar in front of you all the time yeah, I know, and when, the when, when weightlifters, they go out they do their opening lift and they miss it and then they go up in weight like yeah, how is that even a thing I couldn't do it. My husband has just been um doing some competitive weightlifting in. Um, he just got the masters in his age category.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, he won for australia, australasia maybe yeah, yeah, amazing yeah, and I watch and I'm like, how do you even I'd be like going up by one kilo if that like competing is a skill though that's what I've realized as well um, you could have the perfect training sessions, but if you're not accustomed to the competing environment and if you don't know how you react under pressure in competing environments, that will probably break you initially as well. Yeah, um, there's an amazing weightlifter actually she's a master's level weightlifter who comes in, uh, for fst and I remember going to one of her comps and leading into it she was like I'm so nervous you know it's I always get this way with comps and then I watched her on the day. She's like as cool as a cucumber. I was like where did all the nerves go?
Speaker 2:And I've realized it's because she's got I think she's done like 20, 30 competitions under her belt, so it's like a different switch flicks in her brain and she's like that's a veteran right there, like watching her compete. I was like, oh, my goodness, yeah, but I think that's what it comes down to, it's's. The more athletes compete you know athletes being at any level the more you put yourselves in this situation where there's high pressure, the more you understand how you react, the more you become accepting of that reaction and then you work to either do something slightly different or be like this is how I'm going to react, but you become better at managing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think the more I speak to you know more people who've competed or, you know, encountered lots of challenges in their life. The more it becomes, or, like you know, the similar kinds of challenges that used to break them, the more they go. Oh, I just learned how to manage it. I just know it's going to be that way. I don't think too much about it, I don't give it too much weight, um, and I just know I will get through, because I've gotten through it so many times. And it's that build-up of, I suppose, evidence, what I would call evidence of even if I feel like crap, I will succeed. I felt crap this time, but I still managed to do this and it's that build-up of evidence of success over time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that, I think, is what helps you manage those sorts of situations yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's a fascinating, it's definitely a fascinating thing psychology, human behavior in general um yeah, I think, um, I would love to talk about how, like, so you're a personal trainer and I we are going to get on to the the fascia stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, but you're a personal trainer and I'd love to know, like, how you got into it. Okay, so you, so you were in obviously, um, you know we've heard about your personal journey and where that's taken you and that's probably how you got into it. But, like, what, what was the? What were you doing? What did you study at university and when did you decide that you wanted to be a personal trainer? Like, how has that all sort of shifted?
Speaker 2:So I was doing my undergraduate in psychology and I had one year to go before I finished graduation, okay so you've kind of gone back to the same yeah, yeah, I actually so, right as I was finishing, or going to finish, my last unit for my undergraduate, I was like I think I might want to start working with people now. Um so, and that was when I also started getting into lifting and I was like, what if I combine the two and you know if I become a getting into lifting? And I was like what if I combine the two and you know if I become a personal trainer? It means I can start helping people now, as opposed to waiting years, if I do get into honors, if I do get into a master's, whatever.
Speaker 2:So I also did a PT course while completing my final year of university and I managed to land a position at a wonderful personal training studio which really prioritized strength training, because that's what I wanted to do, because that was also when I started getting into powerlifting and squatting and deadlifting and bench pressing heavy. I really wanted to go to a place where that was supported. So this personal training studio, you know, know the owner, he understood the value of strength training and.
Speaker 2:I learned so much from him, so I ended up staying there for about six years before I went off and started doing my own thing. Um, but yeah, that's kind of how I started. It was like it was almost like a switch, and I think, um, when you said for you it was like what if I do personal training? That was genuinely the question for me. I was like, if I start personal training, then I can spend more time in a gym. You know I can, um, you know I can actually be in an environment where I can help people physically and try to help them foster good habits and whatever it was. I just did not think it would leave me here, you know now like several years later yeah yeah, wow.
Speaker 1:What um the types of people that you work with? Do you work with mostly women? Do you train um men like what's your ideal? Do you? Do you find that women are open to lifting? Has it changed?
Speaker 2:like I definitely think it's changed a lot. Um, I think I I train quite an number. I have a very wide range of clients actually.
Speaker 2:Like if I'm looking back on it now, you know very diverse. I've like right at the moment, you know a lot of the strength training clients I work with. They're mainly gen pop, so the priority is to get them as stable, as strong as they can be so that if they choose to stop, you know, working with me, then they've got all the skills that they need to still help themselves. Now I think that's the one most important thing about coaching is not just the I'm going to get you super strong, it's the what are you going to be able to use if I stop or you stop? Do you still have the skills that you need to carry you through? So that's kind of been my priority.
Speaker 2:When it comes to my clients, um, I've got a very even number of uh women and men, I would say. Um, I've also got a couple of uh like adolescent clients as well. So some of them too not as many like. I've only really worked with maybe three of them in my, in my like own career um, yeah, I think. I think the main concept remains the same, though. It's about helping them build skills and also a bit of self-confidence and this sense of what they call self-efficacy, so this belief in themselves to be able to do what they're doing now, but do it alone right, yeah, how?
Speaker 1:how does that go for you? It's an ideal, isn't it? And, like when I said at the beginning, like you and I have both had a background where we didn't we weren't uh, into health and fitness when we were growing up, we weren't sports people and so like demons being able to demonstrate that actually anyone can do it, um, but yeah, do people grasp that or is it a bit of a mixture?
Speaker 2:I think it happens over time. Yeah, so if I look at some of my clients now, because some of them I've been working with for close to four years now, so you know at the beginning of when I opened up my own business and it's in the little things. So, uh, you know one of my clients recently because I've moved to this venue. Uh, in January I opened up like this room and, um, couple of my clients who are doing face-to-face with me, I transitioned them to online so they only see me once a week, but they still do online training.
Speaker 2:And you know these clients are, you know, the ones who came in with back pain, having had multiple surgeries in their knees. Um never lifted a weight before in their life and they started not because they wanted to, but because their doctor said you need to start training um. They went from doing one session a week with me to doing two sessions a week face to face and now that they've been left to their own devices, even further. So I've stepped back even more in the amount of um uh guidance you know face-to-face guidance being provided. They've gone from doing just two sessions a week to four sessions a week by themselves and actually wanting to compete in powerlifting comps and wow, I was like this is the.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm just like this is the biggest kind of growth that you could ever ask for in someone. Um, and one of the things one of the clients said to me was he said he now feels really confident in how he's able to go into the gym and own his space. Um, to give a bit of context, you know this client's um. You know he was overweight when he first saw me. Uh, he's um was quite not very mobile when he first started with me, but now it's to a point where he goes I just go in, take up a rack and I know it's mine in the time that.
Speaker 1:I'm using.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's in small things like that, I think. But also if a client goes, yeah, I felt really crap. Today I've got a couple of clients who you know also struggle a lot with mental health issues and it's even the transition from I felt really, really bad. You know, two years ago they would have stayed in bed the whole day. You know, um, and now with the right sort of you know psychological help as well, obviously in that time, um, because I think that's really important, like I'm not a practicing psychologist yet, but I see I need to be able to refer them out to people like that.
Speaker 2:Um, but you know, when a client comes back and they go, now I actually went in, went outside, when I went for a walk and I feel tons better. Or I didn't want to make this session today, but I came and I feel tons better. So it's the sessions that they used to miss that they now actually make, and you know all the promises they make to themselves that they keep. I think those are the signs of progress that I know that you know what we're doing is working.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, great. How much does your like background in psychology and your own personal experience with, like the mindset stuff that you've gone through? How much of that do you use when you're face to face with a client, like obviously it's not, um, as cut and dry as that, but like does it play a big part for you because of your personal interest in it?
Speaker 2:I think so, but I also think, having done the body of work, like when I started doing fst and really working with people's bodies that's when I really understood you can't separate the mind from that, like, health is body and mind.
Speaker 2:And when you start doing body work, you realize it's a way of building trust and wonderful things actually happen when a trust is formed between you and the client. And this goes across all sorts of, you know, professional relationships and I think you'd find that with yourself as well. It's like a lot of the best PTs, best therapists. They draw upon every skill that they have and that's the reason why their clients come to them. When I started, you know delving into my honours and then into my masters, and you know picking up more of the counselling skills. A lot of them are things that good PTs already do, but learning more about it helps me be a little bit more intentional, so, and ask different sorts of questions during assessments and if a client seems off, then actually being like why, um? But also knowing when to set boundaries, being like there's a point where you you know you can't delving in further into them.
Speaker 2:Feeling bad is actually not helpful so what sort of practical things can we do together to help them leave the session feeling better than when they came in? Um. So, you know, specific skills that's been really helpful for me have been things like active listening. So understanding active listening you know the value of silence when a client is talking, because most of the time when we listen to people, we listen with the intent to respond, not listening to actually hear what the other person is saying.
Speaker 2:And you know, I think learning how to understand and implement some of those basic counselling techniques has made it even easier when it comes to working with people, particularly those who take a little bit more time to come out of their shell. And I think another thing has been being able to provide like a safe space, so not only only physical, but like a psychologically safe space. And what I mean by that is if a person comes to me with a concern or, um, if they have like a belief or they're carrying something in their body like they've got an injury on their shoulder, um them feeling safe enough to voice that and not, you know, and to be expect to be met with understanding and compassion rather than judgment and criticism. Um, I think creating that sort of space is really important, and that's what I try to prioritize in all my face-to-face sessions yeah, cool.
Speaker 1:Now you've talked about um we're kind of leaving the big bit till last. So you've just talked about health is body and mind, and you've talked about trust, creating a safe space and how you work with your clients, both from a mental and emotional perspective, as well as their physicality. Now the one thing that we haven't spoken about yet is your fascia stretch therapy, and I feel like that's what we need to talk about next. I was just thinking about it, like because I've spoken to a couple of different guests about somatics and about how we like the stuff we hold in our body, and I know that you're from what we've spoken about already.
Speaker 1:Like you're obviously well-educated in, you know the science behind human behavior, the science behind our anatomy, physiology, and you kind of touched on that idea that when someone's coming up to competition, if you treat them, that they hold some kind of tension or energy in the fascia. So I feel like there's some kind of connection with that body-mind thing. Can you tell us a little bit about the work that you're doing, what it is? I think you did mention like you kind of went over it a bit at the beginning what it is, who you're working with and how it kind of ties in with what you're doing both from a physical and a mental perspective body and mind, yeah, um, so faster.
Speaker 2:Stretch therapy, also known as fst, was created by um ann frederick, who's in arizona, and then, um her and her husband chris, who's a physio. They've continued to create this amazing, beautiful technique and continue to um, you know, teach it to people all across the world. Um, and fascia is this fibrous connective tissue that runs across our entire body, um, so it goes into joints, organs. We've got it just under our skin, but we've also got deeper layers, um, deep within our muscle tissue as well, and you want to think of it as this glue that holds our body together in this fine state of balance between enough mobility in some areas and enough stability or strength or tension in other areas, and that's what holds our body together. It also helps us generate and absorb force. It's what coordinates multiple muscle groups together when we move or if someone moves it passively. So it allows us to stretch across different, what they call fascial nets, so different ways. The fascia connects different muscle groups together across the body. We stretch along that and create movement, thereby improving mobility and improving how the fascia is balanced across the body.
Speaker 2:Sue Ellen, the lady who referred me to you her husband is. He suffered a stroke, I think four or five years ago, so quite some time ago, and that's the main reason why he came to see me, because the occupational therapist he wanted to see down in Sydney. She said it'd be great if we get some fascia work done. So that's how we started working together for a couple of sessions, and one of the things I find really beneficial, and what makes FST so magical, is it allows us to improve mobility and create change in the tissue without putting the person through more pain. And I think one of the things that we societally, you know, have this belief in is for things to change and to be successful, there has to be pain. You even see it in like massage or you know. I've had clients come in and go. Well, I don't think it works if it's not painful.
Speaker 2:Um you know, and I challenge that quite a bit. Actually, I go. Actually, if it's painful, especially in the initial session, it's not really going to work. It's not a therapy that works because we're forcing, we're actually allowing your body to open up and yield. We're almost, you know, dancing with it and whispering and trying to listen to what it's trying to say, and that's one of the reasons why it works.
Speaker 2:That's one of the reasons why I was drawn to this modality of treatment, because when I was a PT, I thought I really love to get into body work. I want to, you know, upgrade my skill set and see if I can provide a bit more to my clients. And there's so many massage therapists out there already amazing, you know, body workers out there. But FST was something that was quite new at the time. When I looked a little bit more into it, I was like this is, I think this is what I want to do. So I booked tickets to Canada, did my level one and it just, you know, yeah, completely, completely opened up a new world, yeah.
Speaker 1:Have you had to do all of your accreditations?
Speaker 2:uh, overseas yep, so level one and level two I did over in canada, and then level three, I went to arizona.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, yeah yeah, it sounds, um, it's sound. I think the fact that you call it body work like kind of indicates that there's something a bit more than you like just a hands-on massage Like there's. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like there's a bit more of an interconnection of like energetics and um feeling into what that that person on the on the table is um experiencing, Um, would you, can you kind kind of, would you say that that's kind of the? That's what it is compared to. I don't know, body work just sounds like it's a bit more. Yeah, I can't put my finger on it I guess it's more of like more intuitive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, um. I think I started using that word because a lot of the uh, fascial stretch therapists used it. Um, I know Anne's used it herself and I just think it's such a wonderful word to describe what any sort of manual therapy is. Um, so in America a lot of them would say you know, I'm an, I a body worker, I do some sort of body work.
Speaker 2:And this could be, you know, remedial massage as well. I think anyone who delves into this sort of manual therapy is a body worker. I don't know if it's formally taught, but some of the best massage therapists I've ever met, who also run like a really beautiful integrative practice, and they are all aware of the mind-body connection.
Speaker 2:And I think this is the one common thing I've seen in both you know good psychologists, good counselors, good you know physical therapists is that they understand the mind-body connection. And I think I'm not an energy worker, so I don't do direct energy work. I know plenty of fascial stretch therapists actually do a lot of Reiki and a lot of sort of like energy, energetic healing work and I think it's beautiful and a lot of sort of like energy, energetic healing work and I think it's beautiful, um, but I am absolutely aware of the fact that when you break someone's bubble, when they allow you into their space, you are working with something that is more than just physical. You can even feel it, um, when someone you know, when you walk past someone on the street and you become quite wary of them because of the way that they're carrying themselves or just because of this feeling that comes across you. I don't think those are just coincidences and I think you definitely feel it even stronger when I'm sitting in the room and a new client comes in, I can already feel something different.
Speaker 2:You know they're either nervous or you know they're anxious, something you know and I think that changes across the session. I can feel that physically as I'm working on someone and it does require me to be very present because it's a form of listening. It's a form of listening to what their body is saying and how it's responding to what it is I'm doing. How is it responding when I approach them here? So I think there's definitely a lot there. You don't need to directly work with energy to influence it, but I think you have to be very mindful of what it is you're carrying and what it is you're imparting when you um, when you do a session of um, the fascia stretch.
Speaker 1:What's it called therapy? I keep looking at my notebook fst. Um, what does that look like? Is there conversation during it, or is it kind of like um, more of a? You know, often a massage is sort of laid down on a table with music, and I know it's not massage but that that kind of environment, or is it very like? Does the person having the treatment have to be kind of interactive with you physically, or do they kind of just you want them to relax and and sort of let go?
Speaker 2:so it can be a combination of all those things. Um, the most important thing is to help the client let go of it, because the floppier they are, the easier. My job is as well. Um, but the person's nervous system and their body is going to do what they want to do at their own pace. Um, sometimes, regardless of how much I try to, you know, make it feel safe, um, and I always tell clients this because sometimes I'll be, you know, doing traction and circumduction, and that's when I actually move the joint around gently just to see how it responds um, that in itself can be very therapeutic as well, but they go.
Speaker 2:I didn't realize I was holding so much tension. I'm not consciously tensing, but I can't let go, and it's always a matter of you've just come into a new room with a completely unfamiliar person who's getting in in your space. Your body's going to take some time, and that's absolutely okay, and I think it's also normalizing that response of you know. Uh, it's going to take some time to get used to this environment, used to me. Understand the fact that I'm, you know, there's no intent to harm at all. Um, and you know, if someone's body's been in a lot of pain, their brain is always on the lookout for something that might make it painful. So it's even just that understanding. There's a lot that your body's holding because your brain is trying to protect you, trying to protect it from further pain signals, things like that.
Speaker 2:I probably talk most in my initial assessment because I try to understand what brought them here, kind of like their you know history, what they're presenting with other lifestyle factors that might influence treatment outcomes outside the session itself. Whether they might need more strength or more stretching. That also depends, like for, for example, I had a client yesterday and when she was talking to me about her history and some other things that she's presenting with, I was like, I think you've got hypermobility and that's maybe the reason why you're experiencing pain, um, not because you're too tight. And she was like, oh yeah, I've been told that.
Speaker 2:Um, I think I scored, like you know, like a seven or something like that on the hypermobility scale. So I said, okay, that's good, we'll just do a couple of more things, but I think you're going to need more of a combination of the strength work that I'm going to give you so it can provide some of the joints that are crying for stability, some strength, and that will actually help, rather than just lots of traction and lots of stretching. Yeah, um, but yeah, the more relaxed they are the better. And I do have music as well. I've kind of found a good jazz playlist that seems to be appropriate for, yeah, the sessions yeah cool.
Speaker 1:Um, how do you see your? Well, I mean, to me it's pretty obvious and it probably seems like a pretty obvious question, but I guess it's more directed at you from a like drawing on your passions and how you see them coming together. Like, because obviously you've, you're going through an evolution, as we all are, and you sort of discover things as you experience them and like this works, this doesn't work. You're doing your psychology, you're integrating that. What would your kind of ideal picture be of using those three modalities the psychology, the personal training and the the um fst? I have to keep looking at my notes, sorry everyone, just everyone just abbreviates it's all right, um yeah.
Speaker 1:How do you see that evolving together? Do you have an ideal or do you feel like you you'll you'll start to head in one direction, or are you happy doing what you're doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, I think I will. My ideal would be, you know, being able to do some like psych work part-time, while still having this business part-time as well. I've started now actioning, doing more like workshops. I've actually got a performance anxiety workshop coming up in two weeks that I'm currently preparing for.
Speaker 2:So I'm starting to integrate a little bit more, trying to introduce this concept into some of the populations and the people that I'm working with. So at the moment, I'm quite happy to continue doing what I'm doing because I think it's just forming, it's kind of getting a life of its own doing what I'm doing because I think it's just forming, it's kind of getting a life of its own, yeah, and the clients who will work with me because of what I provide will continue to work with me or seek me out, and I think there's always a reason why someone may choose to work with you over someone else. Um, and, yeah, I think that would be it for me. Um, putting out more psych related content that can reach more people without me having to work one-on-one, um, I think, is my next goal.
Speaker 2:I would like for that sort of mental health care, psychological health care, to be more accessible, because I think at the moment, um, we don't get a lot of funding for that price and finance is a really big barrier to people accessing these services, and I think, if I can provide it in a space where people are already in a space where they've encountered these aspects of themselves, that they go. I wish I could work a little bit more on this, or if my mind was functioning as well as my body, then I think I would really be able to perform really well. I think being able to provide those sorts of workshops in these spaces at a price that's actually affordable, I think, yeah, that's a way of making more of a difference there yeah, cool.
Speaker 1:So sort of the more specifically for like performance and like what might be holding people back in terms of like stepping into doing more for themselves physically yeah yeah, yeah, that's yeah cool, great um.
Speaker 1:I think I had one more thing to ask. I know I went onto your website and because we I'm conscious that we've kind of um reached our hour, and I went onto your website and I saw that you had some video testimonials and they kind of demonstrate the FST. I think that if I wish I lived in Sydney, because I would be there trying it out. Yeah, it seems like really it looks um.
Speaker 1:Yeah, really sort of I don't looks good and you've got, yeah, so you've got some video demonstrations of, um, like, clients going through the, the treatment, um, but is there somewhere else that people can like, go like, do you do those videos from social media like, do you have a a bit of a following? Is that when, where you're kind of trying to get your message out there about the things you do more?
Speaker 2:yeah, that was a bit of a long convoluted blah blah that's okay.
Speaker 2:Um, I do think the video testimonials on my website have been a big help in terms of helping people understand what it is. Um, and I tried to pick out some of the clientele. Um, like you know, one of them is a professional ufc fighter. The other one of the other clients is a massage therapist, um, and I think my final client was an was an artist. So, yes, just a very wide range of showing that fst can actually work for performance as well as rehab, but also general well-being. Um, but my instagram is probably where I'm the most active as well as, like, a lot of people seem to be finding me on google now, which is great, that's cool.
Speaker 2:Um, the good news is recently, uh, ann and chris brought fst level one to sydney, so it was just yesterday I actually went and visited them great yeah, so there's now, I think, quite a few active level one fst practitioners in Sydney. So you know they may have their own website. I think they probably have their own social media accounts as well. So I think there'll be a lot more access to this type of treatment for people, even for people who don't live so close?
Speaker 1:Yeah, great, that's cool. Um, so we're gonna um share if. If you'd like share your website and your um insta links on my website, so we'll put all of those in. You'll have your own page in the guest directory there so people can find you easily. Um, is there anything that you want to say before we finish? No pressure, um, like you know, any sort of closing things or if you, if people do want to reach out, what's the best way to do it? Where do you want people to find you?
Speaker 2:yeah, um you know any is your website is your website the best place, sorry website?
Speaker 2:no, that's okay, our website, instagram, probably both are the best ways, yeah, okay um, but I'm, I think, if I suppose, if anyone listened to this and if any of the content or any of the things I spoke about makes it feel like I would be the you know person you would want to work with, whether it's with, you know, strength training or FST or you know, that sort of mental work um, and I guess I'm.
Speaker 2:My doors are always open for inquiries. Um, yeah, I, I really do stand by that, though people will come and seek you out for what you offer. Um, you know, you see, that in massage therapy with FST I think it's I had I had a colleague ask me. Actually, I had a colleague asked me do you feel threatened by the fact that there's more people doing FST in Sydney? And I said no because, firstly, there's plenty of space on this earth in Sydney for all of us and, second, I have my own client base and there are, in the same way that there's, many amazing massage therapists in Sydney. But clients pick the ones that they go to for their own reasons yeah it's going to be exactly the same.
Speaker 2:Um, I actually think it's amazing and so good that there's going to be more access to FST, because that's been one of the hardest things for people. Um, you know, I've had clients come from like Penrith and Albury and they're like I wish I had this there. Yeah, it's like if you weren't so far away, I'd do this a lot more often. So, but if there's anyone who listened and, um, they think I would be the right fit for them, then, yes, my doors are always open for a bit of a chat, fabulous thank you.
Speaker 1:It's been really great conversation. You've got got some really good insights and obviously, like living the yeah, living by your, your values and what you believe in, and and in passing that knowledge and those skills on to others is a great contribution. Thank you for joining me today. Thank you so much. Yeah, hopefully when I'm in sydney I'll be able to tap in and and uh, get some treatment yeah, it'd be great to meet you in person yeah, definitely. Thank you so much for your time today, erica stretch.
Speaker 2:Thank you thank you, bye for now.