Episode 82 - Joy as a Guiding Principle with Swami Nityananda

In this joy-full and enlightening interview, Swami Nityananda and I explore spirituality and personal growth for fast-brained humans.  

There are so many gems in here that I can't even begin to summarise them - but here are six of Swami Nityananda's main teachings from our talk:

1. Embracing Joy

Joy is not something external to us; it is an innate quality within every individual. By being fully present in the moment, practising gratitude, and embracing simplicity, we can tap into the endless source of joy that resides within us.

2. Practicing Mindfulness

Mindfulness and meditation are powerful practices that allow us to quiet the mind, expand our awareness, and experience inner stillness. By incorporating meditation into our daily lives, we can enhance our well-being, connect with our true essence, and access higher levels of consciousness.

3. Self-Realization and Transformation

Recognize that at the core of our being, there is peace, joy, and unconditional love. 

By letting go of limiting beliefs and attachments, we can connect with our true nature, live from a place of authenticity and joy, and experience personal transformation.

4. Ambition and Striving (this could well be my favourite part)

True ambition arises from a place of connection with our inner light and aligning our actions with our true nature. 

It is not about forcing or striving excessively but rather working joyfully, wisely, and confidently from a space of pure love and inspiration.

5. The Three Knots

In yogic teachings, the three knots are identified as ignorance, desire, and action. Untying these knots involves realizing that the light we seek is already within us, releasing the belief in separateness, and understanding that our true essence is interconnected with everything. By living in alignment with these teachings, we can find guidance, focus, and inspiration to manifest our unique talents and contribute to the well-being of ourselves and the whole.

6. Interconnectedness

We are all interconnected, and our well-being is intertwined with the well-being of others and the world around us. By recognizing this interconnectedness, we can work towards thriving and succeeding while also supporting the thriving and success of others. Our individual contributions, whether in work, relationships, hobbies, or daily activities, are essential parts of a larger transformation of human structures.

These teachings offer profound insights and practical guidance for leading a purposeful, fulfilling, and spiritually aligned life - and together with the rest of the interview provides plenty of inspiration for designing a life that works with your smart mind.
 

Show Notes

You can find more information about Swami Nityananda's book, "The Yoga of Pure Awareness", here: https://awakeyogameditation.org/awake

The Awake Yoga Meditation website:  Awakeyogameditation.org

Instagram:  @swami_nityananda_giri

Instagr

Ready to learn how to Manage your Smart Mind? Then download my free 'Mapping Your Unique Brain' Workbook. Go to:
https://www.coachkramer.org/brainmap to get access.

Are you interested in working with me? Click here.

Come say hi on LinkedIn |Insta | Twitter | FB

Transcript

Episode 82 - Joy as a Guiding Principle with Swami Nityananda

Else Kramer (00:00:05) - Welcomes smart humans to waves of wisdom. Summer conversations with smart minds. Because this summer I invite you on an inspiring and transformative journey as I explore the minds and lives of extraordinary, smart humans. I'm, of course, your host of the Managing the Smart Mind podcast, Elsa Kramer, also known as Coach Kramer. And throughout this scintillating summer series, we're going to be writing the ways of the inspiring lives of lots of very different people with bright brains. In each interview, I have the privilege of engaging in captivating conversations with amazing, smart humans, from poets to startup founders, from artists to entrepreneurs, and from stand up comedians to swamis. This summer, we'll be delving into the depths of their wisdom, and we're going to draw lots of inspiration from their unique perspectives, their choices and experiences. Waves of wisdom is not just about high IQ or being fast brained. It's about how to harness your intelligence and your heart to make a meaningful impact. You're going to learn about strategies, tools and shifts these smart minds have employed to navigate the complexity of being a fast brained human on this crazy planet.

Else Kramer (00:01:31) - We're going to explore all the ways in which you too can design a life that works with your smart mind, whether you have a well or not so well managed, smart mind. This summer, series of waves of wisdom will help guide you on your quest for knowledge, inspiration and personal growth. Enjoy. Hello smart human. Welcome to this episode with Swami Vivekananda. I am so excited to introduce to you this spiritual teacher and meditation guide. She has dedicated her life to helping humans live in joy and freedom, and today she will share many, many practical tips, teachings, lots of profound wisdom to help you tap into your inner joy, embrace your authenticity, and navigate life. Now, Swami Nisha Ananda has done so many things. She's spoken to audiences in ten countries. She's a recipient of many, many grants, and in 2014 she was actually consecrated as a swami by Swami Shankar Ananda and as a spiritual teacher and leader at Awake Yoga Meditation based in Baltimore. But actually reaching listeners worldwide, maybe in the future, including you, my dear smart humans.

Else Kramer (00:03:02) - She guides individuals to experience calm and exuberance and to live their fullest lives. And as you will notice in this podcast, she presents the ancient yoga teachings in a manner very accessible and relatable to contemporary audiences. Her book, Awake The Yoga of Pure Awareness, has been hailed as a life changing guide that offers principles for personal transformation and was even more fun. In addition to her spiritual journey, Swami Ananda, known as Juniper Ellis, holds the position of Professor of English at Loyola University, Maryland, and she has earned her PhD from Vanderbilt University. So yes, smart humans. Another example of how you can definitely more than do more than one thing with your life and do it quite successfully. So I would love to invite you to join us on this. I would say pretty transformative journey as we explore mindfulness goal setting. And above all, the radiant power of joy as a guiding principle for your life. Prepare to be very inspired and empowered. As Swami, Nikki shares her profound insights and illuminates the path to a more joyful and authentic existence.

Else Kramer (00:04:31) - All right, so welcome to the podcast Swami Nitya Nanda.

Swami Nityananda (00:04:36) - It is amazing to be with you.

Else Kramer (00:04:38) - Isn't this so good? And this is a summer of I feel so blessed of meeting extraordinary people in like all possible ways. I have just come off a call with an Irish poet and musician and how perfect now to be here with you talking about all the things I'm sure.

Swami Nityananda (00:04:58) - And thank you for being an extraordinary person. And I know your listeners are as well. So thank you to the listeners. Yeah.

Else Kramer (00:05:05) - And I wanted to start maybe right in the middle instead of like doing a chronology or right sort of the path leading up, and then maybe we can wind our way back. I'm reading a lot of spy thrillers and think they call it God. What is it? Something with the cat tracing back the cat or something. I'm sure I'm I'm slaughtering it, but let's start where we are right now, which is kind of fitting, right? So where are you right now?

Swami Nityananda (00:05:32) - So right now, geographically, I'm located in Baltimore, Maryland, and Baltimore.

Swami Nityananda (00:05:38) - Maryland is hot in the summer, so I can feel the heat. And it's amazing to be here.

Else Kramer (00:05:44) - And in which like because you have many roles without like giving away everything. Which role are you showing up as right now? Are you showing up as all roles? Do you come like as a whole package? Do you wear different hats? Tell me about that.

Swami Nityananda (00:05:58) - Good question. So right now, do you share a video, by the way, I don't know if viewers can see this video later. So on screen, they do see the video. Great.

Else Kramer (00:06:06) - So some people will be watching the video and other people will just be listening to the podcast.

Swami Nityananda (00:06:11) - Yeah, awesome. So for the video viewers, you will see on screen right now, my name is Swami Ananda and so Swami Swaminathan Nanda is the name that my meditation teacher gave me. His name was Swami Shankar Ananda, and he was the founder of our meditation community, Awake Yoga Meditation, which is geographically located in Baltimore. And then we welcome listeners from everywhere.

Swami Nityananda (00:06:33) - And so if you are someone interested in yoga philosophy, in meditation, in teachings of non-dual awareness, then please hop on Zoom, hop on YouTube wherever you are, and join one of our meditations. And so right now that's that's the name that I'm using on screen. My driver's license says Jennifer Ellis. And so Jennifer Ellis is the name that my dad and my mom gave me. And I love both my names. And I actually don't have a feeling of conflict between the different names that I have. Yeah. So and I also I serve as a professor, and so I've served as a professor for 25 years. I'm a full professor of English and I'm at Loyola University. I love it, I love it, love it. And so I would say there the students call me Dr. Ellis or Professor Ellis that's comfortable for me as well. And so for me, it's all just the same task of, I would say if I described the common, the commonality of all of what I do. It's that I really love helping humans be their best selves.

Swami Nityananda (00:07:36) - And so I think that's what meditation does. It helps humans connect with what is best and highest in them. I think that's the exact same thing I do in the university classroom, help people connect with what is best and highest. And it's the same thing I do with the different forms of speaking, the different forms of writing that I engage in. And I think as a human, like as a friend, as a family member, as someone who just interacts with others in time and space, I absolutely love sharing what is highest and best in me. And then that rather invariably I mean, like yesterday I was in a in a store. I had to go to a big box store and there was like this massive line. But the humans all around me were being their highest, best selves as well. And so, like consistently, that is what I meet. I find that when I share what's highest and best, that just kind of reflects back to me everywhere I go. So like that line in that story yesterday was so long, people could have reasonably been quite cranky, but they weren't.

Swami Nityananda (00:08:33) - They were completely cheerful and it was actually fun. We were all just kind of like hanging out, enjoying being. Yeah, exactly.

Else Kramer (00:08:43) - So good. And also, I think this way of you being in the world is the perfect illustration of non-duality.

Swami Nityananda (00:08:50) - Oh, thank you so much. Yes. I mean, to see non division between. Right, exactly. And for any listener like I would actually say that's an observation I have because I've had the great honor and joy of teaching thousands of students from all backgrounds, like all walks of life, all ages over the years. Every human has an incredible innate wisdom and an. And intelligence, like so many gifts and so much kindness and so much generosity. And so I was smiling. I was remembering this morning something a student at the university said. I think it was a first year student. And she wrote in a reflection, There is no limit to what we can learn. And this is true. So this is true for all of us.

Else Kramer (00:09:35) - Fun?

Swami Nityananda (00:09:36) - Yeah, exactly.

Swami Nityananda (00:09:38) - And I mean, she was a person. She was an athlete. And she, I think, was like maybe a physics major. And so this is true of us. Like, whatever our backgrounds are, whatever our skill sets are, there's no limit to what we can learn. And it's just amazing being always open to discovering that in ever greater ways and to see other humans who are always open to discovering that in ever greater ways as well.

Else Kramer (00:10:03) - And I love that you're here to kind of exemplify that, because I think so many people with, you know, smart minds, fast brained humans try to box themselves in or think they have to box themselves in to make things work in the world. Right? They have to pick one thing and stick with it. And I don't think that's necessary at all. I mean, I'm talking to you this I've spoken last week, I spoke with a professor in rhetoric who travels the world doing stand up comedy on cruise ships. Right. There's so many ways.

Else Kramer (00:10:33) - Yes. Yes. So fun.

Swami Nityananda (00:10:37) - It's really great. And I do agree with you very much when you're coming from that place of like you, if you live in this way, you will be continually learning. And so what this means is life will be always new, always fresh. You'll be always sort of like becoming aware of new platforms and new ways in which to share and new content to share, and new ways of thinking, new ways of expressing. And I agree. So it's like this. I think Dr. Martin Luther King Jr said something that relates to this. I think he said that if you stop learning, you're not actually still living.

Else Kramer (00:11:16) - Oh, my God, I agree. I didn't know that quote. I always say when you stop learning, you might as well be dead, basically. You know, basically you are dead to me. Yeah.

Swami Nityananda (00:11:26) - Exactly. And so and so then to sort of like embrace that and to allow that to be a strength so that you're going to be in a process of continual discovery.

Swami Nityananda (00:11:36) - And even if I mean, so like I've had the great joy of being at the university for 25 years. Amazing. And I love it. Amazing that I still love it.

Else Kramer (00:11:45) - Yes. And that you were able to, like, navigate academia, etcetera, etcetera. Yeah. Yeah.

Swami Nityananda (00:11:50) - But so what I was going to say was I'm definitely always learning still, even though I've been there 25 years. And so just to let anyone know, like if you are, even if you're like at the same institution, however many years you're going to be continually learning, like even if outwardly your job description remains the same, you are going to be transforming continually. And the way you share and what you share is also going to be continually transforming.

Else Kramer (00:12:17) - I love that. So if you are still at the same institution, right, and you if you enjoy it, it can be a beautiful thing. It doesn't necessarily mean you need to. And I love that you're actually saying this because I know some people out there are wondering like, oh, have I missed out? Should I have tried more things and start second guessing themselves? Am I stuck in a rut? But if you really love where you are.

Swami Nityananda (00:12:43) - Embrace it and absolutely revel in every single moment of it. And I guess I would also say so sort of like as you look, I'm saying this for every listener, but as you look at your life, I would also say trust the wisdom of the choices that you made. Like they've taken you to a place for a reason. So kind of like optimize whatever you can learn from being in that particular place. And I would say like when you can fully love where you are right now, you'll know, is this the right place for me to still be, or is there like another thing that will unfold from that deep love of where I am right now? If there's like another outer expression in time and space for that love and that joy and that talent and that dedication to share through you, it'll come like and you'll just have an inner clarity like you gave the example of the professor who all of a sudden is like, Oh, I want to do stand up like on a ship. And so, so you'll have like the sense of adventurousness and it'll come from that curiosity and that ability to kind of keep exploring.

Else Kramer (00:13:49) - And I think what most people want to dig deeper, there's always a red thread.

Swami Nityananda (00:13:55) - And the red thread. You mean like, that's the kind of. Like there's always.

Else Kramer (00:13:58) - Something connecting all the things, right? I'm sure we haven't. We've only spoken for a couple of minutes, but I'm sure there's a reason you're doing all the things you're doing. And there is a connection, right? Tying everything together, even if we look at it, you know, with hindsight. But I mean, it's the same for my life when I could never have imagined all the things I ended up doing. But looking back, like, huh, that really makes sense.

Swami Nityananda (00:14:21) - And often it is when you look back that you understand, you can sort of see the structure, you can see the shape, you can see the the wisdom of why you were in a particular place at a particular time. Yeah.

Else Kramer (00:14:32) - So you say trust, right? Which is very interesting topic in itself. Like because people who don't have trust often ask, but you know, you're saying trust yourself or trust that you're doing right thing.

Else Kramer (00:14:45) - Where do I get this, you know, mysterious stuff called trust? Where is it found? Right. Do you want to speak to that?

Swami Nityananda (00:14:52) - I would love to. Yeah. And I'd also be really curious because I know you also work with people all over the world, and so I'm curious to hear your observations as well. So I think a couple of things that I would share about trust. And so I would say each human has that innate wisdom. And I think one of the great joys of like for me being in a university classroom or for me being in the meditation community is like that allows me to welcome everyone just unconditionally. Like no matter who they are, no matter what they look like, no matter what they've done or not done, no matter what their background is, no matter where they're going. Just like right now, unconditionally. I welcome you in this moment and you're amazing. And I'm seeing your incredible talents, like your incredible gifts, your incredible skills, your incredible wisdom.

Swami Nityananda (00:15:41) - And so I think because I greet people in that way, then people sort of relax and they feel safe because they know that I'm seeing what they come like. They all come bearing incredible gifts. And so then they have a feeling of security and steadiness inwardly. Like, I'm not asking them to demonstrate anything or prove anything. And then.

Else Kramer (00:16:04) - Formative.

Swami Nityananda (00:16:05) - Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm saying you've got this like just connect with what's already there. It's already there. And so to trust like the different life experiences that you've had or the different family configuration that you've had, or it may be that you speak different languages, or it may be that you come from a religious or spiritual background, or like you don't have a religious or spiritual background that isn't the same as most of the other people in that room where you currently find yourself. Or it might be that you come from a different country than most of the other people in that room. But to just sort of trust that whatever it is that life has given you and you've had the ability to navigate that has given you strengths that no one else in that room has, and that when you connect with that strength and you share that strength with everyone else in the classroom or in the meditation space, that strengthens you and it also strengthens everyone else.

Swami Nityananda (00:17:04) - And then from that place of steadiness within themselves, then that's where people are like, Oh, there's no limit to what I can learn. Like I can really relax and enjoy this process of learning because I'm not trying to force myself to be something that's artificial to me. But instead I am naturally unfolding the strengths and the brilliance and the expressiveness that is within me. And so then that's where you're sort of helping people navigate. I mean, I guess I would also say I think it's important to acknowledge that there are structures of power in the world. And so, like if a person is at a university, they are navigating a structure of power that is going to give them a credential that will give them access to other structures of power. And so I would say I'm aware of that. I think a lot of my students are aware of that as well. And a lot of my students have the awareness that they want to use their power for good, like they want to use their education in a way that helps them succeed and thrive and prosper.

Swami Nityananda (00:18:06) - But they also have a deep dedication to helping many, many, many other people succeed and thrive and prosper. And they're here deliberately, intentionally, consciously to help the world be a better place, like a more humane place, like a calmer and kinder and more caring place. And so how amazing is that? Because then these humans are out there, like they're out there in the world, and then every single one of them is affecting, like all the students that they teach or all the people in the boardroom or all the people in that office, like all the people.

Else Kramer (00:18:40) - It's a massive ripple effect.

Swami Nityananda (00:18:42) - Massive ripple effect. Like, it's so incredible.

Else Kramer (00:18:45) - I love that. And I think just to answer your question, like what it is like for me, I think from a coaching perspective, I always assume the person I'm working with is completely. Perfect, right. And there's nothing that needs to be fixed. And then we just get to play and. Right. And when I was still teaching, creativity is very similar and photography because people would always say like, Oh my God, like the others in the classroom have a different history or different experience.

Else Kramer (00:19:13) - Or look at this artist, Who am I? Yada, yada, yada. And I'd just say, okay, exactly the same, right? I think we 100% agree. Nobody has your unique experience, right? Your reference frame, your history, all the all the stuff you've been through. And that is what you bring and that is, you know, the lens through which you see the world and that you can then share with us and enrich us through. So yeah, exactly. Same answer.

Swami Nityananda (00:19:38) - I love it.

Else Kramer (00:19:40) - It's so good. And I would love for all teachers in the world to like see their students as perfect. I mean, what a massive difference that would make. I think instead of like, Oh my God, here is a standard. And you know, okay, let's look at you. You're kind of there. Like for the people listening, my hand like is a lot lower on one hand than the other hand. So you're not matching the standard. And now we've got to kind of beat you to shape or you need to work super hard to be good enough.

Else Kramer (00:20:08) - I think so many people also people who come to me for coaching, maybe from other coaching environments have tortured themselves literally almost to be quote unquote good enough, which they then can never be. Yeah. So impossible standard.

Swami Nityananda (00:20:24) - I love your observation. And I would say like one of the ways that I put it into words is that and I think that this is true for, as you mentioned, it's true for all teachers, but I think it's true for anyone who has like clients or anyone who has colleagues, for anyone who has kids, for anyone who has Yeah.

Else Kramer (00:20:40) - Works with other humans, basically.

Swami Nityananda (00:20:42) - Who interacts with any other human, I would just say come from an asset model rather than a deficit model. So come from that position of I'm connecting with strength within myself and within you. And then absolutely, as you said, then we can play like, then we can have fun and then we're sort of building on strength and it's much easier to have strength build on strength than it is to have strength built on the perception of deficit.

Else Kramer (00:21:11) - Yeah.

Swami Nityananda (00:21:11) - Or lack of something wrong or lacking.

Else Kramer (00:21:14) - Yeah. I have at least one podcast episode entirely devoted to compare and despair. Right. Which is one sort of example of how this shows up for people. And I love that because I think it can especially show up in academia and I suffered from it a lot when I was in music school. It kind of like hampered my entire, you know, like I needed to leave music school after two years because I just couldn't function anymore. It was so perfectionistic and constantly comparing myself to other people and, you know, judging myself to not be good enough. And it's such a waste. Right? It's such a shame because you never get to see what you can do and you just instead of growing, you just shrink basically yourself shrinking.

Swami Nityananda (00:21:53) - I guess I agree about the healthiness of developing strength within yourself and trusting that strength within yourself and letting go of comparison and trying to compare yourself to outside standards or to others.

Else Kramer (00:22:08) - I can imagine that someone listening would now sort of say, I don't know about this because don't you need criticism to grow? Right? Aren't we all culling ourselves and each other way too much and you know, we're all winners? ET cetera.

Else Kramer (00:22:24) - So I'm just playing devil's advocate here, right? So how do we Because I do also feel like resistance is good. Challenge is good for growth. Yeah.

Swami Nityananda (00:22:33) - So I would actually say, well, okay, so let me talk about the university context because I think that might be kind of familiar to a lot of people. So just if you think about your formal experiences in school, if you had formal experiences in school, I know some listeners might have grown up in unconventional ways and done homeschooling or unschooling as well, and so complete respect for that also. But so if you had conventional learning experiences, think about the situations in which you learned the most. And for me it very much was what I said. There were teachers who sort of recognized and saw me like they saw the talents that I came with, and then they helped me foster those. And so I think that the the teacher's style of fostering those is going to be different. It's going to be unique to each teacher. And I think for each student, what helps the student foster those talents and those strengths is also going to be a different it's going to be a new student.

Swami Nityananda (00:23:35) - So ideally what I do in the university classroom is create a situation where I'm serving as a facilitator so that the students are encountering the material and themselves and one another. And there's almost like this learning community that is created. And so each student is taking responsibility. For learning some of the material in such a way that they're able to present it to the class and then they see, I can do this, like I can learn this from the inside so that I become almost like an expert. And I know more about this than anyone else in the class except the professor. And then I can share that. And I'm contributing to this collective knowledge base. And so we have like a website for that class where the student is actually presenting their materials, not only in speaking but also in writing. And we're also creating kind of like an archive for that class that then becomes a resource that all the other students can draw on and each person is contributing. And so definitely, like I will with kindness, say things like, well, this could be clarified, you know, like or what is the main point that you're getting across here? Please move to that directly.

Swami Nityananda (00:24:45) - Please state this directly. What is the evidence that helps? You know, this this is a great point, but how do you know this and how can you help others also be able to know this and understand this as well? If you take this seriously, what are the implications? Like what are the potentials? If you live this, what then happens? Like, what does this then demand of you if you live this? So I'm also always very interested in beyond the walls of the university classroom. How do these ideas affect other humans? Because they all do. Like every single idea has consequences. And it it has implications like very practical implications for how we are and how we live and work and play and love and share our talents, but also how we understand and respect and understand the other humans in the world as well.

Else Kramer (00:25:35) - Yes, and I love it when teachers do that, when they make stuff relevant, like in every possible way. Right. Do you have like a specific book that is a great example of this that you love or maybe not a book, a poem or some.

Swami Nityananda (00:25:49) - I mean, so in an American literature class that I teach, the first book that we read in in the semester is Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, an American Slave. And so Frederick Douglass lived in Maryland. He was born in Maryland. I'm in Maryland. Didn't know that. Yeah, Yeah. And the university that I'm in is in Maryland as well. And so he grew up with an incredible self-awareness. And from an early age he had a self-awareness. I am not born to be a slave. So he had this inner sense of freedom and this inner sense of becoming self-aware, looking around at this structure of some humans trying to enslave other humans and saying, This makes no sense at all. It's not right, it's not right. And not only are the humans who are quote unquote enslaved, degraded by the system, but also the humans who are seeing themselves as owners or as masters are degrading themselves as well. And so humanity is being degraded by the system. So from like age seven, he describes his awareness of the abuses that were committed under the system and how it affected actual humans, like the way it affected.

Else Kramer (00:26:58) - Seven.

Swami Nityananda (00:26:59) - Age seven. So at age seven, he saw his aunt being brutally beaten and it was clearly for an unjust reason and unrighteous reason. So she had a boyfriend and her quote unquote master didn't like it because he liked her and wanted her for himself. And so you can see Frederick at age seven, kind of putting all these pieces together and just looking at this does not make sense. Like this is an egregious violation of this awareness of freedom and dignity and love and wisdom within myself. And so he went through a series of developments like he went to Baltimore and he began learning to read. And then it was forbidden. So it was forbidden because it was understood by people who, quote unquote, owned slaves that if people who were enslaved knew how to read, they would learn like this system makes no sense and they would liberate themselves. And that is actually what happened. So Frederick Douglass kept teaching himself how to read. And the more that he read, the more he understood, like, this system is abominable and it needs to be abolished.

Swami Nityananda (00:28:13) - Yeah. And so he freed himself. So he actually freed himself inwardly first. And then he freed himself outwardly. And then after he escaped to the north, he kept telling the story. And for the rest of his life, he told this story. And when he first started telling the story, people would look around at him and they would say, Frederick, are you sure you want to name your name? Because it wasn't legal for him to be free in the North like the law of this country at the time was. He was supposed to be sent back down to the south into slavery again. If people heard him telling his story and knew that he had escaped, they were supposed to send him back legally. So, I mean, that's an example of an. Unjust law was in place at the time and he understood it was unjust. And at the risk of his life, he kept telling his story and in time and not without huge pain. Of course, the law was changed. And so he's an example because of his incredible courage.

Swami Nityananda (00:29:12) - He was actually in this country, in the United States, the most photographed human in the 19th century. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. And it's it's because he he had such brilliance. He had such wisdom. He had such eloquence. And one of the things I think that, you know, just like, almost makes me cry and almost make students of all backgrounds cry is that he did not harbor anger. He did not harbor hatred even towards those who had committed these egregious violences and abuses. He was telling his story to free then also. So he was speaking so much on he calls it on behalf of truth, love and justice that he was not only working to free the humans who were enslaved. Clearly, that was part of his mission, but he was also working to free the quote unquote, masters who were also enslaving themselves by participating in these horrendous abuses as well. Incredible.

Else Kramer (00:30:13) - Wow. And I didn't know that about like the most pictures because I know a lot about photographic history because of one of my many, like paths.

Else Kramer (00:30:20) - Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That is incredible. And also interesting because you have your own stories like inner freedom, I guess. I think inner liberation.

Swami Nityananda (00:30:32) - Well, I mean.

Else Kramer (00:30:33) - Yeah, some of us may be more like more on our way towards inner emancipation or whatever you want to call it. But what did that look like for you?

Swami Nityananda (00:30:41) - For me? Okay. Well, so I would actually take if you're asking me sort of like when did I become aware of that inner awareness that is always free. It goes back as far as my earliest memories. And so so I mean, I think Frederick Douglass story suggests that that might be an innate awareness that humans have. So because that is true for my experience as well. And I'm curious, like, is that true for you as well? You know, if you think about your earliest I think.

Else Kramer (00:31:11) - I think for me it wavered, right? Like, I think the way I experience it is to me, it's like more of this like inner flame or kind of connection with spirit or whatever you want to call it.

Else Kramer (00:31:22) - And some, some at some stage during my life it went out or I lost the connection.

Swami Nityananda (00:31:27) - Yeah. Okay, great. I mean, Inner Flame is a great metaphor.

Else Kramer (00:31:31) - That's how it literally feels. Yeah. My I can even point to where it is. Right.

Swami Nityananda (00:31:36) - So where would you point? Because I'll cross in Ikea.

Else Kramer (00:31:39) - We call it the hara, right? Just below the navel. Like, Yeah, that's where it sits. It's just a flame. A fire.

Swami Nityananda (00:31:47) - Yeah. Okay. That's really, really cool. So that's like a in Chinese medicine and in Daoism that is like a center of awareness. Like a center of consciousness. Yeah, exactly. And then the other one that I would just invite listeners to be aware of is the yogis actually talk about the heart and say that there's a flame of awareness in the heart as well. And they're not talking about like the emotional heart. They're more talking about like the energetic heart as well. So like deeper than human emotions before that, this inner awareness.

Swami Nityananda (00:32:19) - So for me, I grew up in Washington State, in the United States and in the northeastern corner of.

Else Kramer (00:32:27) - Isn't that where it always rains? And it's like Misty.

Swami Nityananda (00:32:29) - So actually that's the other side of yeah. And so then there's that's like the Seattle area. And then in the middle of the state, roughly speaking, there's these really high mountains that catch the rain clouds. And so right side of those, yeah. So my part of the state was not super rainy and it was like filled with evergreen trees and mountains and lakes and just beautiful. So I grew up in a really beautiful, really rural situation and very aware of nature, like surrounded by nature all the time, connected to nature all the time. And so that was my earliest awareness, was that my body is connected to the natural world. The natural world is connected to my body. And I was also aware of connection to other humans. And just what a beautiful thing that is to have like this, this connectedness not only to our families, but also to like almost like a community of like minded or community of kindred spirits might be another way to put that as well.

Swami Nityananda (00:33:31) - Yeah. Yeah. So, so that was my earliest awareness. And then I met my meditation teacher, Swami Vivekananda in 2010 and that was also just like a huge catalyst for that awareness as well, because how.

Else Kramer (00:33:46) - Did that happen?

Swami Nityananda (00:33:47) - So how did it happen then? I met.

Else Kramer (00:33:48) - Him. Yeah. How do you find your teacher? Like, I have stories about this as well, but I'm curious what it was like for, you know.

Swami Nityananda (00:33:54) - Yeah. So for me, well, I had practiced yoga and I had practiced meditation for years. And then I read the book Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda and I on an inner level. I asked really intensely, very, very fervently that I wanted to deepen my meditation practice. And then I hopped on the web and I found that my teacher was consecrated as Swami Vivekananda by his teacher, Swami Prem Ananda, and Swami preeminently was consecrated by Yogananda.

Else Kramer (00:34:26) - As a lineage there, there's a lineage there.

Swami Nityananda (00:34:30) - And my teacher was literally like a few minutes away from me like, yes, So, so I, I went to a Friday night meditation.

Swami Nityananda (00:34:41) - We still do Friday night meditations. So at awaken meditation we do Sunday meditations, Friday meditations and Tuesday meditations. I went to a Friday meditation and I was sitting there and my teacher walked into the room and there was just like this flash of recognition, like almost like a lightning bolt or just like a well, that's how it is. And so, yeah, just like recognition. And I would actually say that's just how that awareness shared itself with me. But I think most humans have those kind of moments of pivotal recognition or transformation or just like, Oh, this is what's next. And there's like this amazing unfoldment that develops from that particular pivotal moment of awareness. So for me, it was meeting Swami Vivekananda and he was just brilliant and hilarious and he lived what we're talking about like that in a sense of freedom. And also just like that inner sense of joy and the generosity of sharing what is highest and best. And so he fostered that in anyone he came into contact with.

Else Kramer (00:35:46) - And did you immediately like this flash of lightning? Was it me like, okay, I want to, you know, become much more serious about this? Or was it just a feeling in the moment and then everything sort of naturally unfolded? Well, my question, I guess, is how intentional and orchestrated was this like from a brain perspective or was it more sort of intuitive being guided and following? So your.

Swami Nityananda (00:36:07) - Question. Yeah. So I would definitely say this is that kind of pure direct heart awareness, which you used the word intuition to describe. Definitely, Yeah. And then I would say then the mind or the brain catches up. It's like, Oh, well, that's the next step then. Okay, that's the concrete practical implications that follow.

Else Kramer (00:36:30) - And then also the post rationalization why this is a really good idea. Sure.

Swami Nityananda (00:36:34) - Yeah, right. I mean.

Else Kramer (00:36:36) - Good at that.

Swami Nityananda (00:36:37) - Yeah. So I mean, I would say that's probably true for anyone, you know, like and for listeners, I would just say, like I talked to humans in all backgrounds. So like in our meditation community, we have inventors and scientists and we have doctors and surgeons and dentists and lawyers and CEOs. And so people who are also highly creative, who are musicians or artists or they work in healing modalities. And so very consistently what I hear from people in all backgrounds is that sort of awareness. It's with everybody.

Swami Nityananda (00:37:10) - And so people just kind of follow that thread of awareness of like recognizing, Oh, well, here's the next step for me. Like this is next. This is going to unfold naturally. And so the more that you can listen to that and pay attention to that, notice that and then practice being guided by that and just noticing like if I listen and and I would also say there is a process of you were talking about this as well. There is a reason is involved in this.

Else Kramer (00:37:40) - The yogis is not like, okay, you know, I'm just going to switch off my brain and yeah, do whatever I feel.

Swami Nityananda (00:37:46) - Exactly. So yogis call it pure reason. Yogis say that pure reason remains with us. And it's really important to be practicing pure reason. And so pure reason would be sort of like it's always going to guide you to do what is not only coming from the heart, but it's like unselfish, it's noble, it's honorable, it's it's generous, it's kind. It includes your well-being and it includes the well-being of others.

Swami Nityananda (00:38:15) - And so pure reason doesn't go away. It's it becomes a tool that is always there with you, helping you to listen and evaluate and discern. So discernment is another thing that yogis talk a lot about. So if you have like two choices before you, you can actually look at them like on the level of pure reason. And you can say, okay, so if I follow through this particular pathway X, Y, and Z may unfold and you can just kind of feel your way as well into what happens if X, Y, and Z.

Else Kramer (00:38:46) - And this is how I teach decision making. Yeah.

Swami Nityananda (00:38:49) - Yeah. So I think a lot of what you talk about is very much dovetails with the yogic teachings, which I'm just so intrigued by.

Else Kramer (00:38:58) - I know we need to like have an entire session about it because yeah, now learn all about this, which somehow I'm already doing, but like, yeah.

Swami Nityananda (00:39:06) - You're doing it intuitively.

Else Kramer (00:39:08) - Yeah. It's so fascinating. Okay, so just got to catch a train of thought, which I had.

Else Kramer (00:39:14) - Yes. Okay. So people again, this will probably sound familiar to you. Like they will ask me how do I trust again the trust, right? That's this is the right path or this is the right thing or that I should follow this intuition. Um. Even, you know, even in smaller things. How and like in addition being in structures and then, you know, I'm going to add like, for example, being neurodivergent in this world, let's say you're autistic and you feel like or you need to self-regulate by moving your hands all the time, right? Then basically what you've learned probably growing up most of your life is like, do not be yourself. Yeah, right. You've been raised, you've been taught by society that for you to be in alignment in a way or at least be your natural self is not safe. What would you say? How do you bridge that gap of like conditioning, cultural conditioning? Because I think that does interfere with people's abilities to trust themselves.

Swami Nityananda (00:40:13) - Yes.

Swami Nityananda (00:40:14) - And respect. And also, I just want to say, I came across something you might know more than I about this, but I came across something recently that was suggesting scientists currently think as many as 30 to 40% of humans may experience neurodiversity. Yes. And so just to sort of say, I think we're at the very forefront, like we're at the very beginning of understanding this, that the way that the human brain is is much more diverse than we have formally understood and recognized. And so as soon as we understand that there are going to be, I would call them, revolutions in the way that we teach, in the way that we help people navigate time and space in every single way. So like in the workplace, I mean, like. Yes. And so respect because for the humans who have been experiencing neurodiversity when other humans haven't understood this, it's really hard. So I talked with a neighbor. This was like maybe a year and a half ago. And I think my neighbor, I'm just guessing she's maybe in her like late 50s.

Swami Nityananda (00:41:21) - She was talking about she had neurodiversity students didn't I mean, students didn't understand it. But when she was a student, teachers didn't understand it. Yeah. And they were scornful. And they were they made school miserable for her. And I'm sure it was not intentional on their part, but it was also very clear decades later, as she was describing this to me, there was trauma in her, like there was trauma in her body. You could visibly observe it as she was talking about this. So respect because people have had to navigate this in the absence of understanding from other humans. So I do think you're right. Like I think we are beginning like I think we're we're part of a wave. I think everyone who's listening to the podcast is probably part of a wave of helping others understand it is okay to be your true self and so your true self, like yogis, talk about who your true self is, your true self is there prior to conditioning. So this is prior to human judgment.

Swami Nityananda (00:42:21) - It's prior to human fear, it's prior to that kind of trauma that I talked about. It's prior to human pain. And so your true self is actually joyful. It's filled with curiosity. It's filled with wonder. It's inventive, it's always learning, It's kind, and it's wise as well.

Else Kramer (00:42:42) - It's free, right?

Swami Nityananda (00:42:43) - It's free.

Else Kramer (00:42:44) - Always free. Unchained.

Swami Nityananda (00:42:46) - Exactly. And so I think I think then for the example that you gave so I have neurodiverse students both in the meditation community and also in the university context as well. And I welcome them with respect and just make sure that they know they are welcomed, they are supported, they are cared for, and they're honored. You know, like whatever they need, if they need something that helps their eyes or that helps their brain or that helps their body, we can help you with that.

Else Kramer (00:43:17) - Like, that's meditation specifically, right? I work with a lot of clients and I recommend some form of meditation for many of them. Right? To create, just start creating some emotional awareness, that kind of stuff.

Else Kramer (00:43:28) - But I never say you have to sit still because there's this misconception and I think again, many people specifically also with ADHD, with autism, have been kind of tortured by meditation because I think I have to sit still. I'm not doing it right. And then they completely freak out. Emotions arise or energy just wants to find a way out and it can't and it becomes horrible. Right? So how do you approach that? Do you have like, are people allowed to move? What or what is your advice when people are like, I can't sit still?

Swami Nityananda (00:43:58) - That's a really, really good question. One of the things I'm drawing on some comments and observations from my teacher, Swami Ananda, so he would talk about if you find that you are not able to sit still, then allow yourself to move like allow yourself to dance or you are giving the example of shaking. And so I would actually say just for you and for any other listeners, there are specific practices in the yogic tradition, but also like within Daoist traditions as well, that invite you to shake the body in order to.

Else Kramer (00:44:30) - Yeah. Again, this is something I tell my clients to do. I am just my mind is just blown. Yes. Again. Yeah.

Swami Nityananda (00:44:36) - No, there are specific practices because.

Else Kramer (00:44:38) - Basically the energy has got to find a way, right? Like a way out.

Swami Nityananda (00:44:42) - Yeah. Yeah. And so what what, what you might find and I'm just inviting listeners to play with this. So I agree with you very much about not forcing yourself, not having it be like a thing that feels onerous or heavy, but you might find that if you let yourself shake, like you can even shake your whole body for like a minute or dance freeform for five minutes or do whatever you want. Or if you do like a yogic practice like yoga, asana, the yoga of postures, you might.

Else Kramer (00:45:09) - Find people doing anything yoga is, which is a whole nother topic. But yeah, and.

Swami Nityananda (00:45:13) - The tradition of the yogic teachings, the yoga postures are to prepare your body to sit still. And so they actually have built into the yogic tradition an awareness that for some humans, movement is necessary prior to stillness.

Swami Nityananda (00:45:28) - And so like there's, you know, if that energy is free flowing and it's not stuck, then it might be comfortable for you to sit for five minutes and then and you might find then that as you sit for five minutes, then gradually it becomes comfortable to sit for a little longer. So I would say for someone who specifically has that as an observation, then see if you can creatively, constructively move your body and invite the energy to move and then see how sitting is, because it might be really delightful.

Else Kramer (00:45:57) - I love this, I love this so much and I just I need to study yoga. That is just very obvious because it's so fascinating, so many practices where I'm like, Yes, this and this and this, and it's so much more nuanced than I thought it was. Right? Which is always like it always is the case. But there we are. Yeah. So what brought you to yoga in the first place? How did that start?

Swami Nityananda (00:46:19) - Oh, well, that's funny too.

Swami Nityananda (00:46:21) - I mean, that's an example of I think that I would, you know, whatever your word for it is, the universe listeners might have different words for it. The divine, whatever your word for it is, the higher self brought me to friends like like back to back. One friend one week said to me, I do yoga, you should do yoga. And then the next week another friend said, I do yoga. You should come to yoga, right?

Else Kramer (00:46:46) - And then you're like.

Swami Nityananda (00:46:47) - And I was like, okay, so I get it. I get that. That's that's clearly something that the universe is inviting me to pay attention to. And so the second friend lived just a little ways away from me and on the way to the yoga studio. So for like a couple of years, I would like get in my car and pick her up on the way to going to the yoga studio. And I would say so for that friend and for me, we both had an innate, almost like recognition of yoga, just like, Oh, this.

Swami Nityananda (00:47:17) - We feel this like we understand how these.

Else Kramer (00:47:20) - Here it is kind of incentives.

Swami Nityananda (00:47:22) - Yeah. And so, so I would say like the one way that I would put that into words is like, yoga is one of my languages. So I know like I have friends, like I have friends whose languages like math or friends who say languages like engineering and those are not my languages or Yeah. Or art. Yeah. And I have so many respects for all the languages. So yoga is just like one of my languages. And then for me also, that actually was the case. So, so the way that in the US, the way that yoga asana is often taught, there's a kind of like flowing through the yoga postures and then at the end there's a silent period. Yes. Where you basically go directly into that quiet that meditation is. And so for me, there was like an instant connection between yoga and between meditation. So for me, like yoga and meditation just kind of went hand in hand.

Else Kramer (00:48:13) - And when did you get a desire to like take it up a notch or however you would describe that? Because, you know, becoming a swami isn't just like, Oh, I'll go to yoga every week, right? It's a bit more intense. So how did that happen?

Swami Nityananda (00:48:28) - No, I mean, that's a fair observation. So when I met my teacher, my teacher, I mean, I would say, like I had an instant kind of awareness of like, my teacher is a real deal. I want to learn everything I possibly can from my teacher. So I was a very dedicated, very sincere student. Like I was very, very open to learning and just with so much joy. Like, I love learning and I had so much fun learning the yogic teachings, the yogic traditions. Like it's fun for me. So. So I mean, I would say, like my teacher recognized I mean, he shared this publicly, so it's okay for me to talk about it. But he said that he had been praying for years for a successor and so when I came, he was sort of like, Oh, here's my successor.

Swami Nityananda (00:49:16) - And that was a little bit like I got to grow into that. Like, I got to expand into that.

Else Kramer (00:49:22) - So because the pressure to.

Swami Nityananda (00:49:25) - Get used to, yeah, that's a little bit to get used to. But I would also say for anyone who has an awareness that you are expanding into something or you are growing into something to just kind of trust like that truth of what you are growing into, it's already there. And so you can just kind of trust the process. Like you can trust the process and.

Else Kramer (00:49:44) - The seed is already there and it's just expanding and it's.

Swami Nityananda (00:49:47) - Very natural. Like the process is very natural and you will still be you like, you can't help it. You're always going to be you. And so just like to give yourself that almost like joy of being comfortable, being yourself and knowing. I mean, I'll just give as an example. Like I'm here in a female body and my teacher was a male swami, but here I am as a female swami. And so I get to figure out like, what is that like to be a female swami? And I have to do that with integrity, with honesty and just kind of trusting and being comfortable being a swami and a woman at the same time.

Else Kramer (00:50:24) - And I've just realized we've never liked because there may be people listening who are like, Swami, what the hell is this Swami? We never we never talked about that.

Swami Nityananda (00:50:32) - Yeah, I mean, so, so I think the way that I would translate it kind of literally Swami means one who is sovereign of one's self. And what that means is, like, it's kind of what we were talking about with Frederick Douglass, like, you know, like. Awareness is within me and this inner freedom is within me. And so that is what you live by always. And so, so a way to think about that is that's an invitation for all of us. Like we're all invited to live according to that true inner freedom. And I would also say it's not a freedom that is oppositional or defiant, if that makes sense. It's not a fuck you freedom. Yeah, it's not. It's really not. It's it's I trust this awareness within myself, but this same awareness that is within me, it's within every listener.

Swami Nityananda (00:51:24) - Yeah. And so that allows me to be comfortable. Like clearly if you're a human and you're moving through time and space, you're going to encounter some humans who are like. You're easy for me to get along with. I'm easy for you to get along with. And sometimes it will not be that. And for you to be comfortable with that and be able to navigate that with wisdom, with skill, with integrity, and to just sort of know like it's actually okay. Like I trust the awareness within me and I trust the awareness within you.

Else Kramer (00:51:57) - This is why the universe blesses us with neighbors, right? So we get to grow. For example, I just want to go back to something you said about trusting the discomfort of the change, because I think that's really important to actually. Yeah, take a moment because think it transformation is so terrifying to people. And I think for me, one of the biggest struggles in my I had a very different lots of different trainings, actually. But when I think about Aikido training and sort of going towards my black belt, trusting my sensei, right, my teacher, but also feeling like, Oh my God, it's almost like I'm becoming another human being and being terrified of letting go of old structures.

Else Kramer (00:52:45) - Yeah. That were at that moment my identity. Yeah, right. And I think that is, it wasn't literally like death, but I think that is what when people say the death of the ego or whatever, something's got to die. That can be very scary. Nothing dies, by the way. That's bullshit. And yeah, like think it's a no. It may not be useful metaphor in itself.

Swami Nityananda (00:53:07) - Well. So that's a really good question and I would love to talk as well about things that I've heard meditation students talk about over the years as well. So like I remember one meditation student talking about how it felt in her meditation practice. I think this what you said made me remember this. She said. For a while it felt like pieces of her face were coming off. Yeah. And and what she meant by that was, I think that she had constructed a social persona that she presented to the world in social situations. And meditation was kind of melting away, that persona. And for her, she just experienced that as if pieces of her face were coming off.

Swami Nityananda (00:53:49) - And so what you could say is like and I have seen this person like before that, during that and after that, and she was lovely before that, she was lovely. In the midst of that. She was lovely after that. And I can see like the core of her is always the same. But what happens is there becomes less pretense. I mean, I would say like looking at her, there becomes less pretense, there becomes less a sense of, well, I have to speak in a particular way or look in a particular way or think in a particular way or act in a particular way to meet some externally designated social criteria, which I don't know where it came from anyway, but for some reason I've been living according to that. And so just to kind of I mean and I think as well, like the meditation community is very, very helpful because you see other humans who are at various states of this process of transformation. And so you see like, okay, people from all races, people of all ages, people of all genders, people of all occupations, people of all nationalities, people of all backgrounds do this, have done this, are doing this, and they're amazing the whole way through.

Swami Nityananda (00:55:02) - And so it sort of helps you feel steady and just aware that that light, whatever your metaphor is, but like that light, that inner confidence that is emerging, you really can trust the process. And I would say as well, I don't know if you find this with your clients in the context in which you work, but there's a self pacing process. There's like a built in wisdom and self-regulation.

Else Kramer (00:55:26) - I would not have worded it that way, but I totally recognize what you're saying. Yes, I.

Swami Nityananda (00:55:31) - Would say don't be afraid just because, like your body and your energy system, your mind, your heart has its own innate intelligence and wisdom, almost like an innate GPS. And so your task is to listen to that very continually and ongoing and receive the guidance, receive the data, receive the input. Also be sure that whatever your GPS system is telling you, you're cross-checking it with pure reason, which is like how do things look in time and space right now? Like, am I navigating time and space?

Else Kramer (00:56:01) - Is there an abyss in front of me then? Maybe, right? Yeah.

Swami Nityananda (00:56:05) - Because honestly, I mean, like, I've actually heard true stories about that. Like the GPS in a car taking a family to the edge of a cliff. And it's really important to notice, like, am I at the edge of a cliff? Because if my phone is telling me to keep going, I'd better not if I'm at the edge of a cliff. And so just to sort of like trust that navigation process, but also like pay attention because you're going.

Else Kramer (00:56:27) - Trusting God tether your camel. Yeah.

Swami Nityananda (00:56:31) - Exactly. Yep, yep.

Else Kramer (00:56:33) - Yeah. And there's something else I want to say around that. Like the fear of transformation, keeping staying. Yes. What you said about the the body. I mean, if I've learned one thing, it's like how incredible our bodies are and how wise and what people would maybe call like a dysfunction, I often see as a very wise function of the body. Like it will shut down if the emotions become too intense or it will disassociate. Right. They may not be things that, you know, you always want to invite along the way, but sometimes it's it's necessary and the body always protects you in a way which is so beautiful.

Else Kramer (00:57:12) - It's incredible.

Swami Nityananda (00:57:14) - It's so brilliant. And to work with awareness of that wisdom. And I would say, like, that's one of the things that meditation teaches yoga, asana, the yoga of postures teaches as well. But also just for any listener who doesn't practice yoga or meditation, that awareness is within you and it involves being fully present in this moment. So to just say to yourself, I choose to be fully present in this moment, and then notice how your own awareness feels within you, and then to ask whatever question you have, ask the awareness within you and you will receive feedback and the feedback will be a feedback that you are able to recognize. And so that might be that you receive guidance in a way that's completely perfect and unique to you, but it's going to be different than the person sitting next to you. If you're sitting next to someone else who's listening to this at the same time as well. So to just kind of know, like, how does my own innate wisdom share itself with me? What are the language?

Else Kramer (00:58:17) - Does it speak? Yeah, right.

Swami Nityananda (00:58:19) - Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Else Kramer (00:58:21) - And I think for me and I'm this is something that I'm definitely still learning to get better at is my rational brain has. Trouble trusting something that it cannot explain. Right. And I know so much that I cannot explain how I know it. You know how I feel. It's true, right? I have this massive intuition. And for me to just say to my rational, I have to constantly remind my rational brain like it's okay, right? You don't need to understand how everything works. Just trust a process and think that is, I think for a lot of smart people also have a very analytical mind that can be a bit of a struggle. How do I navigate that even if there is this deep knowing? And but then part of it is like, this is ridiculous, Like.

Swami Nityananda (00:59:11) - So that's a really I mean, is there a question there? I'm trying to think if we were phrasing that as a question, I guess this tug.

Else Kramer (00:59:18) - Of war, what would you do? You have any advice on how to navigate? Yeah, Yeah.

Swami Nityananda (00:59:22) - Okay. So trust your intelligence. I mean, I guess like from the yogic tradition, the yogis have actually mapped out, they say there are different forms of intelligence, there are different forms of knowing. So some of the ones that I'll just mention that come to me right now and I'm partially talking about like ancient yoga philosophy, but I'm partially using our current lingua franca, like how we would say this today. But there's like, there's like book smarts, right? There's like things that you can learn from a book, and those things are amazing. Like, it's incredible to have curiosity and to learn from books, but also not to acquire too much pride or think that book smarts make you better than any other human. They don't. It's just what you learned in a book. Fantastic. And then there's like, you know, street smarts. Like some of the things that my students at the university know from the lives that they have lived sometimes in relation to the streets. They have incredible wisdom.

Swami Nityananda (01:00:22) - And it's really important for them to be able to trust that and to know that they have gained such strength and such courage and such skill and that that is part of the gift that that life has given them. And so to to take that wisdom and build on it and also it doesn't make them better or worse than anyone.

Else Kramer (01:00:41) - Else, right?

Swami Nityananda (01:00:42) - Like, yeah, yeah. And then yogis say so that is sort of like the level of the mind, the things that the mind can learn. And then yogis would also say there's an intellect which is higher level and the intellect is higher level because it allows you to discern, it allows you to look at, you know, like, here's what I learned from books. It has a measure of wisdom. I would like to use that measure of wisdom without thinking that it makes me better or worse than anyone else, right?

Else Kramer (01:01:10) - And I'm like, question some of it. And yeah.

Swami Nityananda (01:01:12) - Exactly. And then here's my life experience. Like whether I learned that literally on the streets or whether I learned that just from my relationships or like living in different countries, speaking different languages, whatever, I've learned that life experience, that street smart, how can I benefit from that, but also not be bound by conventional thinking there as well? Because there can be patterns of conventional thinking in all of those areas that are not healthy and helpful.

Swami Nityananda (01:01:38) - So it's very important to this is yogis call this the intellect. Discernment comes into play. And so you can basically ask of any kind of knowledge, is this helping me be stronger and is it helping others be stronger? Or you also could.

Else Kramer (01:01:53) - Say, question.

Swami Nityananda (01:01:54) - Is it helping me be wiser and is it helping other humans be wiser as well? Like, is this improving my well-being and others well-being as not or not? And so to be able to ask that evaluation. But then yogis also say that beyond intellect, there is pure knowing. And they say that it's important to have all of these levels of guidance to be able to use the guidance of the mind, to use the guidance of the intellect, but also go beyond it to pure knowing. And then I would say as well that for a listener who's open to this, begin right where you are. And if you are open to this, say, I want to learn this for myself. I want to learn like, what are the forms of book learning and street smarts or life experience that I have encountered? Let me keep the things that strengthen me and others and help me and others be kinder and wiser and stronger and better.

Swami Nityananda (01:02:48) - And let me respectfully and kindly let go of anything else.

Else Kramer (01:02:53) - Yeah.

Swami Nityananda (01:02:54) - And that's the kind of discernment that you're practicing. And then you're saying, and I'm open, I want to learn more about this intuition. I want to learn more about this direct ability to know it's here within me. So yogis say that it's innate to all humans, and I want to learn like, how do I directly encounter this pure? Knowing this pure awareness, you will begin to learn because that language of awareness is within you. And the more that you practice it, you'll sort of know, Oh, like when I needed to make a decision about I came to a roadblock and I needed to make a decision. Do I go to the left or do I go to the right? If I pay attention, I'm really quiet and calm. I'm probably going to have an inclination. And often that inclination will turn out to be correct and helpful if I follow it. And then you'll remember and you'll have an awareness of like sometimes your your left arm might actually feel like it's pulling you to the left.

Swami Nityananda (01:03:55) - Like you might actually have a feeling of my left arm is pulling me to the left and.

Else Kramer (01:03:58) - Then he wants to.

Swami Nityananda (01:03:59) - Go, My body wants to move this way. So what happens if I follow that? I also would say, like, here's something that's really accessible for all all listeners walking into the grocery store. If you stand in front of the fruits and the vegetables and you ask your own body what strengthens me, your body will guide you. Like it'll say, I would like blueberries, please. Like my particular brain. I'm speaking for myself, really likes blueberries sometimes. And sometimes I'll listen in my body. We'd be like spinach. You need spinach? Yes. So those are just examples where sometimes my body will be like walnuts. I really need walnuts. And, you know, you don't even have to analyze or know why all of those things.

Else Kramer (01:04:42) - Exactly. Just listen.

Swami Nityananda (01:04:43) - Just listen and then start to pay attention. And then you'll start to develop this kind of comfort and almost like rapport with the way your own body gives you signals and and you'll start to trust it.

Swami Nityananda (01:04:55) - And then when you're making decisions about how am I going to decide like, you know, like what choice do I make in relation to this option that I have? Like, do I accept this promotion or do I not accept this promotion? Do I enter that training program or do I not enter that training program? Or do I date that person or do I not date that person you'll be able to follow because you have this sense of like how your body speaks to you and helps you navigate. And so the more that you practice this and the more that you kind of notice your own inner navigation system, the more it's able to be giving you guidance constantly 100%.

Else Kramer (01:05:32) - And this is actually a mode of coaching and coach active coaching where someone actually sort of designates areas of the room to a particular decision, for example, and stands in it and imagines it and then feels into it. And then what does your body tell you?

Swami Nityananda (01:05:47) - Yay, I love it. Yes. And you can feel your way into like you can feel your way into taking that pathway.

Swami Nityananda (01:05:54) - How does that feel in my body, taking that other pathway? How does that feel in my body? And you'll also develop, I would say as well there are what's the right way to put this. You will gain increasing awareness and skill and comfort if fear thoughts arise, you will gain the ability to evaluate those fear thoughts and basically. See directly for yourself is that fear thought like based on something that happened to me, like when someone was mean to me on the playground in third grade and it has no relationship to this particular choice that I'm making right now, or is my inner guidance system telling me I do actually need to be aware of something in relation to that particular potential option or choice?

Else Kramer (01:06:44) - I love this and this was going to be my next question right around emotions and how like what do they mean and how do we deal with those? And especially like when an emotion comes up, how do I know what I need to do with it? I'm actually teaching an entire month around this. So this is like I've been reading so much around emotion, emotional processing.

Else Kramer (01:07:03) - I have so many opinions I would love. I have no idea what yoga says about emotion, so maybe we can start there first.

Swami Nityananda (01:07:08) - Like, absolutely. Well, so I would say that emotions are part of your navigation system from a like from the perspective of yogis, what yogis would actually say is that your human body, any human body is a vehicle that you are using to navigate time and space so you're not limited to your body. Your body is a vehicle, right? And that that can be very healing because there's an example of a Yogi in the yogic tradition whose body was broken in eight places, but he was still completely self-aware. He was completely a Yogi. He was what we would today call enlightened. So this is not based on is your body whole according to human definitions? It is. Are you in contact with the wholeness within you? That's always the question. So no matter what shape your body is in, no matter what it looks like from an outer level or feels like from an inner level, the question is like, am I in contact with my own wholeness? And to sort of be patient with your physical vehicle and also your emotions are a part of your vehicle, they're part of your human vehicle.

Swami Nityananda (01:08:14) - So it's just a data point. You know, if you look at it in.

Else Kramer (01:08:18) - Information.

Swami Nityananda (01:08:19) - It's information, it's energy. And it's actually neutral. So we can be much less.

Else Kramer (01:08:24) - Okay, hang on. Can you say that louder for the people in the back? Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Swami Nityananda (01:08:28) - So from a yogic perspective, waves of human emotion are neutral. They're energy. They do not mean something is wrong with you. But also yogis would say we can gain wisdom, strength and skill and courage in navigating human emotions so we can evaluate them. We can say, Do I want to stay with this wave of pain or would I prefer to transform it? Do I want to stay with this wave of sadness, or would I prefer to transform it? I will also say be patient with yourself because if you are experiencing something like grief, your human self needs time to navigate that and so don't feel like you have to rush or push yourself through this, but also.

Else Kramer (01:09:07) - Get over.

Swami Nityananda (01:09:07) - It. Yeah, right.

Swami Nityananda (01:09:08) - So just be patient. There's a natural process to this and so trust, there's a, there's a wisdom that is with you right now that will help you move forward. So also you don't want to kind of get mired in it or wallow in it, but there's like this sweet spot where you can be honest with yourself and allow yourself to feel what you feel. But know whatever it is that I'm feeling doesn't define me. It doesn't limit me. And if it arose in my experience, that means it's going to leave my experience at some point too. It's non permanent and it's also neutral. And so so I would say that as well. Like yogis talk about say that you're experiencing a wave of whatever emotion you're experiencing.

Else Kramer (01:09:47) - Let's say anger.

Swami Nityananda (01:09:48) - Anger. You're experiencing a wave of anger. It's a neutral form of energy. And so then your question is, do I find it helpful to feel this? And you may. I mean, I'm not saying that you don't find it helpful to experience it.

Else Kramer (01:10:04) - Anger can be an amazing sort of fuel, right?

Swami Nityananda (01:10:06) - For action. It can be fuel. And you probably don't want to stay with it too long because I think it can become caustic if you try to stay with it too long so it can start to burn you if you try to hold on to it too long. And so to practice self evaluation and self awareness, just like how does it feel when I hold anger in me? How does it feel when I express anger in me? And then yogis would also say that beneath the anger can be sometimes sadness again.

Else Kramer (01:10:35) - Yes. Yeah.

Swami Nityananda (01:10:36) - And then beneath the sadness. Sometimes there also could be like a feeling of hurt or a feeling of pain or a feeling of fear or regret. And so if you work with those various layers and I think like within every human, there's almost like this energy archaeology that can happen where you.

Else Kramer (01:10:56) - Can that.

Swami Nityananda (01:10:56) - You can work with these different layers and then you can be comfortable, you can sort of be comfortable in self aware and say, Oh, my human self is feeling this wave of anger.

Swami Nityananda (01:11:06) - I get to choose how I deal with that. Like I can trust my own ability to navigate that. And then I also later can practice self examination and self inquiry and ask Is there any sadness? It's beneath that. And what's the origin of it? Like? Does the origin of that sadness have anything to do with my coworker or my sister or my brother or my neighbor or the person on the bus? Whoever it is that I feel like created this wave of anger? Or does it actually go back to, you know, like when I was seven and I experienced this sadness in relation to whatever it was that you might have experienced it? And then when you have that sort of excavation of those energy layers within you, you're actually your own awareness. It's almost like the image that came to me was if you've seen the way sun filters through trees in order to reach the forest floor. And so that's happening within you, like the sun is filtering through the trees to reach the forest floor and down there at the bottom of everything.

Swami Nityananda (01:12:07) - That's what you were saying earlier. You're perfect. Everyone's perfect. Everything's actually okay. It has been okay. It will be okay. And and then you have this awareness of, okay, so I'm able to choose if I want, I'm able to choose to bring healing to my seven year old self. I'm able to choose to bring healing to my 13 year old self. I'm giving those as examples for whatever ages the the listeners are that the sadness may have come from. And then you have clarity and you're sort of aware of that wave of anger that seemed to be precipitated by whatever scrolled across my newsfeed on my phone or whatever so-and-so said to me or.

Else Kramer (01:12:54) - Injustice or Yeah.

Swami Nityananda (01:12:56) - Yeah, exactly. Then you have awareness of where's that feeling coming from and, and you're actually able to choose. How is most helpful for me to respond in this moment right now? And then there's this sort of like also peace. And I think we are back again to that that word trust maybe even transformed into something you could call confidence, because at that point you sort of realize like, I actually am in charge of my emotions.

Swami Nityananda (01:13:29) - My emotions are not in charge of me.

Else Kramer (01:13:31) - This is how I define confidence. Yes. The ability to handle emotions, right. Confidence is nothing to do with your accolades, with your achievements, with like. And of course, there's confidence when you have a skill and you've done it before, there's confidence that you can do it again. That's something else, right? And that is easy to learn. As in you just repeat something until you have the confidence that you can do it. But this self confidence is no matter what emotions arise, I'm going to be okay.

Swami Nityananda (01:14:01) - Yes. And then you are free. Then we're back to that. Then you are inwardly free no matter what is happening or not happening in time and space, you are always free. And from that, like I would actually say. Then there comes such joy and strength and the ability to create such beauty in time and space. Because you're coming from this fullness, like you're coming from this.

Else Kramer (01:14:29) - Instead of this.

Swami Nityananda (01:14:30) - Yes. And we've healed that perception of lack, which we so often can carry around and which I mean, I would also say like advertising is, is playing upon that feeling and making us think like, well, if I don't have that toothbrush or whatever it is, my teeth aren't as sparkly and beautiful as they possibly could be.

Swami Nityananda (01:14:50) - So I need. I need sparkle. Yeah.

Else Kramer (01:14:52) - Listen, I need new teeth, right?

Swami Nityananda (01:14:56) - So. Yeah, so but but to know that the sparkle comes from within you and then whatever is outwardly sharing that sparkle, it'll be there and you'll just have it becomes natural because it's coming from the energy within you. And so then it naturally kind of, of course there will be practical steps that you take in time and space to help.

Else Kramer (01:15:16) - Very important, right people. It's not like you just trust in the divine and you sort of take a nap and wait for everything to unfold.

Swami Nityananda (01:15:23) - There will be practical steps and so and so to give yourself that joy of taking the practical steps in space as well, because you're actually part of the creative process that's bringing it into visibility. And it's really fun when you're working in creating in that way.

Else Kramer (01:15:38) - It's like a dance, isn't it? It's just, yeah, yeah.

Swami Nityananda (01:15:41) - Joy and beauty. Yeah.

Else Kramer (01:15:44) - Okay. This brings me to another question, which I think I've had in the past, and I think a lot of people may have.

Else Kramer (01:15:50) - What about ambition and striving? Hm? I mean, do you still strive for people? Do would you describe yourself as ambitious or are you just like constantly joyful, sending out ripples of joy into the universe? Right. What does that look like for you?

Swami Nityananda (01:16:04) - Well, so one of the yogic teachings and I'm actually going to invite you and listeners to feel your way into this yogic teaching. What yogis say is that at the heart of each of us, there is always peace. Always There is always joy. Always. There is always what yogis would call pure love or unconditional love. And this is the love that is it's non romantic. It's just like that innocent, sweet love that you see when you look at your pets or the natural world or someone.

Else Kramer (01:16:39) - For me, it's almost like bubbles. Yeah, like, yeah, exactly.

Swami Nityananda (01:16:43) - So yogis would say that that's our true nature. And yogis say live in that true nature from moment to moment. And when you do, what yogis say is that you will be creative.

Swami Nityananda (01:16:56) - You can't help it because you're here. And so that energy opportunity is bubbling over, it's pouring forth, it's flowing. But it is with I would say it's without forcing. Yeah. And it's without fear and it's without anxiety about what do other people think It's pure, which means it's unconditional and it's joyful and it's it's created in this energy of confidence and so yogis say these are the three they call them nots that they invite us to untie. They say untie the knot of ignorance. And the knot of ignorance is simply thinking that the light is not within you.

Else Kramer (01:17:37) - That's kind of denying your true nature. Yeah.

Swami Nityananda (01:17:40) - Thinking that the light is somewhere outside of you. They would say that's the original knot of ignorance. And so as long as you know that the light is within you, you're always connected to the light and you're always living from that light, you're going to be living in joy. You're going to be living in inspiration. You have to share the talents and skills that you have. You have to.

Swami Nityananda (01:18:01) - It's why you're here. And so do.

Else Kramer (01:18:03) - You think many people are going to recognize that? Like who? I think many listeners and it's been to say for me, people always ask me like, why do you do all the things? I'm like, How is this even a question? Yeah, it's not. I just have to write.

Swami Nityananda (01:18:17) - Natural to you, it's natural to you. And so for the listeners to focus on what is natural to you because it's going to be unique and completely unprecedented and unparalleled for every listener. There's something that only you can share that this light can only share through you. And I also want to say it's not separate from you right where you are. So, I mean, this could be like, you're an amazing mom. It could be. You're an amazing friend. You're an amazing neighbor. You're an amazing baker. You so in amazing ways. You're an amazing gardener. You're a singer, you're a dancer, you're a musician, you're an engineer, you're a scientist, you're a CEO.

Swami Nityananda (01:18:54) - You're comfortable in high powered corporate settings. Like whatever it is, you're.

Else Kramer (01:18:58) - An amazing hugger.

Swami Nityananda (01:18:59) - Yes. I mean, and that's and the whole like, the good of the whole actually needs you to be that amazing you. And so I'll just quickly talk about the other knots that yogis talk about. They say that desire is a knot. And so I think that's that is there word for what you were talking about as striving and ambition. And so they say that it's a knot because it creates a feeling of separateness between you and what you love and between you and what you would love to help create. And so to just let go of the separateness, you have to keep the energetic dedication, like get up in the morning and work with joy and willingness and steadiness. You have to keep that. But to do that from not a place of like thinking that you're not enough, not a place of feeling like what you love is separate from you. It's actually already within you.

Else Kramer (01:19:55) - This is how I teach goal setting.

Else Kramer (01:19:57) - Yeah.

Swami Nityananda (01:19:58) - So it's within.

Else Kramer (01:19:58) - You, right? Yeah. How would you feel if you'd already achieved the goal and how can you feel that today? Exactly. And with that feeling you can move towards it. You may not even want it anymore. We'll see. Right?

Swami Nityananda (01:20:11) - Exactly.

Else Kramer (01:20:12) - Yes. Wow.

Swami Nityananda (01:20:13) - No, you you are intuitively doing what the yogis talk about. It's so fun. It's awesome. I'm giving you massive fist bumps. So it's.

Else Kramer (01:20:22) - Really fun. So cool.

Swami Nityananda (01:20:24) - So for listeners because I think, you know, like someone who might just be hearing this, you might have this question of, well, that just sounds like really I want to be very clear. This is not about being lazy.

Else Kramer (01:20:35) - Yeah, right. Again, it's not like about manifest $1 million right on the couch. No, it's.

Swami Nityananda (01:20:42) - Not about being sluggish. It's not about being resistant. But it's also not about being overly aggressive. And it's not about being overly fiery. So yogis talk about there's like, this sweet spot where any sluggishness becomes transformed into stability because everyone needs that stability, that strong foundation, any fiery ness within anybody or any almost like overactivity or frantic ness becomes resolved into like, steady, concentrated, focused, joyful, willing work that you enjoy because it's coming from the spirit of fun.

Swami Nityananda (01:21:20) - And then what Yogi say is then you're moving. They call it like serenity or tree or peace or tranquility. But it's just your natural state of being. And so so what they would say is like, let's say that a listener says, I really want to create this. Like I really have this strong sense of dedication of like, you were using the word striving. So not to make it a bad word, but just like I have this passionate sense of like, I would really like to create this. So the way to work with that is to basically say, I trust that the energy of it is already within me and from a place of steadiness and from a place of stability within myself and from a place of dedication, willingness to work wisely in a focused and strategic brilliant and.

Else Kramer (01:22:12) - Using that amazing brain of yours. You don't need to set it aside, Right? It got to come along.

Swami Nityananda (01:22:17) - It's an incredible tool. It's amazing. And so but what what very practically speaking, what will happen is you will have a sense of guidance and a sense of how to direct your energy directly to what is most helpful.

Swami Nityananda (01:22:32) - You will have the ability to focus directly on will all of those other things that seem so important are actually not the most important. I have this ability to hone in and know that if I put my attention and my energy and my awareness and my work and my willingness right here, this is the most important next step for right now. And what happens then is like you're always having this sense of expansive perspective and inspiration and guidance and the ability to pay attention to details both and take.

Else Kramer (01:23:06) - Steps right on the day today. And I think this is what people don't or at least misunderstand or like, oh, if I'm completely in the moment, there's no bigger picture, then how can I grow? No, no, no. That's that's not the idea. It's again, non-duality, right?

Swami Nityananda (01:23:21) - Yeah, exactly. And and you have that really fantastic ability to have the inspired vision and the kind of like focused awareness of like, if I pay attention to these details right now and take these make these choices and take these steps right now, that actually helps.

Swami Nityananda (01:23:40) - And it has like this dynamic, like power behind it that helps that ideal become visible in time and space.

Else Kramer (01:23:47) - So beautiful. Okay, listen, I'm my brain is dying to know, like, what are the other two notes? Because you said like.

Swami Nityananda (01:23:53) - Yeah, So.

Else Kramer (01:23:54) - So completion.

Swami Nityananda (01:23:56) - Yeah. So this is so interesting. So stay with me on this. The yogis say that the three nots are ignorance desire.

Else Kramer (01:24:06) - How does three. Okay. Yeah.

Swami Nityananda (01:24:07) - And action.

Else Kramer (01:24:09) - Oh, there we are.

Swami Nityananda (01:24:10) - But I want to talk about this because what they're talking about is so. And I want to say again. So ignorance is like thinking that you're separate from what you love. Yes. Thinking that you're inside you. Yes. Feeling like light. And what you love and want to create is separate from you. So you are already connected. So and that melts away the knot of ignorance. Desire is somehow thinking like I have to force it to happen. Like this has to involve like a lot of struggle or a lot of strain or a lot of pressure or a lot of fear.

Swami Nityananda (01:24:42) - So if you melt that away and you basically say, I want what is best, and then you're aligning with what is best, like from moment to moment, what is best. So what is best is actually going to include for humans meaningful work on a daily basis and then also meaningful rest on a daily basis and also meaningful quiet and play on a daily basis, meaningful connection on a daily basis. And so this is true for every human. Like no matter what your brain is like, if you're neurodivergent or not, if you are in a relationship or not, like we.

Else Kramer (01:25:15) - Need all these things.

Swami Nityananda (01:25:16) - We all need these things. And so as you pay attention from moment to moment and you're just I'm open to the highest and the best in this moment, you'll know. And that will give you like the wind at your back in terms of doing work and doing it optimally from joy and from willingness and from love. And when you're working in that energy of pure love, then it's really fun. No matter what the work is, it'll just be really fun.

Swami Nityananda (01:25:40) - And then the the action. So yogis are not saying do nothing. I want to be really clear about that. This is what we've been talking about all along. They're saying connect with that energy that allows all things to be done and then do your work.

Else Kramer (01:25:59) - I'm just getting goosebumps.

Swami Nityananda (01:26:01) - And you can feel it because what they say is basically like there is the energy that brings this whole universe into form. Connect with that energy and then do your work knowing that you're not separate from that energy. So they're basically saying, get rid of the feeling that you are separate from the energy that moves the sun and the moon and the stars. Get rid of the energy that makes you feel that you are separate. So I could use an example like say that you're a great artist. The same creativity and inspiration that expressed through the brilliant artists you love. It's with you. So connect with that and it will express through you uniquely in a completely unprecedented way. So an allow it to express through you. But the same thing.

Swami Nityananda (01:26:45) - If you're like a scientist, you're like a physicist or you're an engineer, you're a mathematician. The thing about the mathematician, the inventors, the scientists, the physicists, the engineers that you love, the incredible brilliance that shared through them, you are connected with it. So get rid of the feeling that you are separate from that brilliance and allow that brilliance to then be acting through you. And so this is true. Like whatever your field of work is, whatever your talents, whatever your skill sets, wherever you are, what you're really getting rid of is the sense of separation. So you're connecting with the energy that moves the whole universe, and you're allowing that energy to move you and to do action through you to to work really wisely, like really generously, really joyfully for the highest good. This is back to at the outset I was mentioning one thing I just really love about the university students I work with is they are so dedicated to they are completely up for thriving and succeeding and prospering, but they're also aware that's not separate from helping so many other humans also succeed and thrive and prosper.

Swami Nityananda (01:27:51) - So they're just aware, like the well-being of all of us. It's it's all interconnected. And so your well-being is included in the well-being of the whole. And the well-being of the whole is included in your well-being as well. And so when we work in that particular way, it's inevitable. We will also create different kinds of structures. We will transform human structures. That's part of what we're doing on the planet right now. And I would say the listeners who are who are hearing this, you're part of it. Every listener, wherever you are, in whatever country you are, whatever your work is, your hobbies, your talents, your play, your skill sets, you're part of this.

Else Kramer (01:28:28) - That is beautiful. And listen, I'm looking at the time. I have so many more things I would love to ask, but I think for now, because we've been talking for almost 90 minutes.

Swami Nityananda (01:28:40) - It's been an absolute joy.

Else Kramer (01:28:41) - Same. Thank you so much. Where can people find you if they want to learn more about your work?

Swami Nityananda (01:28:48) - So the meditation community website is awake Yoga, meditation, org.

Swami Nityananda (01:28:52) - And we share the teachings that I've been sharing in our conversation. So if you enjoyed this conversation, hop on over to awake Yoga Meditation. Org. Recently I published a book called Awake The Yoga of Pure Awareness, which is a lot of what we've been talking about all along here. We meditate on Tuesdays, on Fridays and on Sundays, and we do it in person on Sundays. So anyone who's near Baltimore, Maryland, in the United States, you're welcome to be in person. But we do have people join us from all over. And so we share meditations on Zoom and on YouTube. We share teachings on Instagram and on Facebook and on TikTok as well. And if anyone.

Else Kramer (01:29:33) - Wow, I will drop all the links in the show notes.

Swami Nityananda (01:29:36) - Yeah, that'd be awesome. Yeah. And anyone who wants to email me Swami at awake Yoga meditation.

Else Kramer (01:29:42) - Org amazing. And we have listeners writing right now think 102 countries so that's amazing that fabulous you get connected again. Thank you so much. This has been an incredible joy.

Swami Nityananda (01:29:54) - Joy I agree with you and gratitude and respect to you and to all of your listeners.