The Deal With Animals with Marika S. Bell
87: The Vegan Experiment: 31 Days of Plant-Powered Living- Veganuary! with Sandra Hungate (S9)
"Everyone can pick and choose what they want to do in the program. We don't even measure what they do. We don't track them. There's no vegan police. We just share all the knowledge as much as we can to help them discover all the things, all the benefits, all the types of foods." - Sandra Hungate
Episode 2 of Series 9: Unveiling Vegan Culture Transcript
The Veganuary movement encourages people to try a vegan lifestyle each January and beyond. We discuss the environmental and health benefits as well as challenges of integrating vegan habits into lifestyles. Sandra, US Director at Veganuary, offers various strategies to facilitate the shift to veganism stating that alternatives to animal products are readily available. Tales of her own experiences are shared, along with simple recipes that replace the use of animal products in cooking.
Guest: Made aware of animal testing in pharma and cosmetics, Sandra has been advocating against animal testing since she was a child. Sandra gave up meat in her early and fully transitioned to vegan a few years later after learning about the dairy industry. Sandra has been working in marketing for sustainable living and eating for most of her career and recently started working at Veganuary. Now vegan for over 6 years, she dedicates her work and volunteer time to helping animals.
Go to the Blog Post Here
Guest Book Recommendations:
You Are Crazy to Eat This by Christophe Brusset
Veganuary's Free Cookbook
Show Credits Thank you also to John Lasala for his beautiful music and audio engineering on Series 11!
Read the Blog! (Guest profiles, book recommendations, trailers and more!)
What to start your own podcast in he Animal Advocacy or Animal Welfare Space? Check out my Podcast Mentoring Services!
"Everyone can pick and choose what they want to do in the program. We don't even measure what they do. We don't track them. There's no vegan police. We just share all the knowledge as much as we can to help them discover all the things, all the benefits, all the types of foods." - Sandra Hungate
Episode 2 of Series 9: Unveiling Vegan Culture Transcript
The Veganuary movement encourages people to try a vegan lifestyle each January and beyond. We discuss the environmental and health benefits as well as challenges of integrating vegan habits into lifestyles. Sandra, US Director at Veganuary, offers various strategies to facilitate the shift to veganism stating that alternatives to animal products are readily available. Tales of her own experiences are shared, along with simple recipes that replace the use of animal products in cooking.
Guest: Made aware of animal testing in pharma and cosmetics, Sandra has been advocating against animal testing since she was a child. Sandra gave up meat in her early and fully transitioned to vegan a few years later after learning about the dairy industry. Sandra has been working in marketing for sustainable living and eating for most of her career and recently started working at Veganuary. Now vegan for over 6 years, she dedicates her work and volunteer time to helping animals.
Go to the Blog Post Here
Guest Book Recommendations:
You Are Crazy to Eat This by Christophe Brusset
Veganuary's Free Cookbook
Show Credits Thank you also to John Lasala for his beautiful music and audio engineering on Series 11!
Read the Blog! (Guest profiles, book recommendations, trailers and more!)
What to start your own podcast in he Animal Advocacy or Animal Welfare Space? Check out my Podcast Mentoring Services!
So that one is the big one, and the reason there is because she's another dairy product. She contain a protein called casein, which breaks down into compounds that are called caseymoorins when digested, and so those attach themselves to dopamine receptors in the brain, which plays a role in the ceiling of pleasure and reward, and that's why we actually are technically addicted to cheese. We're addicted to cheese and we want more of it.
Speaker 2:This is the deal with animals. I'm Marika Bell, anthrozoologist, cptt, dog trainer and an animal myself. This is a podcast about the connection and interaction between humans and other animals. Welcome to the second episode of series nine of the deal with animals.
Speaker 2:Since this series is all about unveiling vegan culture, we're gonna jump in two feet first, like a new year skinny dipper who's been waiting all year for the polar plunge, and talk to Sandra Hange, us director at Veganuary, a movement focused in January to introduce people to vegan eating. It's already quite popular in Europe and it's starting to rev up here in the US. So we're going to be talking about how to participate in Veganuary but, more importantly, why you might want to participate in Veganuary. We're looking at some of the environmental impacts, the health benefits of eating vegan, as well as why it's sometimes difficult to overcome the challenges of becoming vegan, like cheese baking and social gatherings. Sandra offers strategies and even addresses the question a lot of people have, which is why not just go vegetarian instead? That sounds a lot less intimidating. And then, at the very end, we've got a really special segment where we're going to discuss vegan ingredients and how to use them in cooking, particularly in baking, and, if you love this section, let me know, because I would love to do a few bonus episodes on YouTube where we actually video doing some vegan cooking, because if you're a regular listener, you probably already know that I'm not vegan myself.
Speaker 2:However, I have been moving that direction and trying to find ways to integrate vegan eating into my lifestyle and removing animal products, so I hope you find this super useful, super interesting, and if you're tempted to dip your toe in the water and just see how your body feels after going vegan for a month, why don't you join me for a veganuary? Because, after talking with Sandra, I've decided to try to go completely vegan for 30 days and just see what happens. My husband's gonna do it along with me and my children are happy to go vegan as well. So if you also wanna join in, jump on veganuarycom after this episode and then send me a message. Let me know that you're joining me, because, as we discuss in the episode, it really helps to know you've got some backup. Thank you for joining me. As we ask the question, what's the deal with animals?
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you for having me. So my name is Sandra and my pronouns are she and hers, and I'm the US director of the January, which is a global nonprofit that encourages people to try vegan in January and beyond.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much. Now this whole series is about vegan culture and veganuary. Really, is it about trying to convince people to become vegan? What's the impetus behind this?
Speaker 1:We are trying or encouraging people to try vegan. We're not asking them to go vegan. We're not asking for them to go from zero to 100. We just want to encourage as many people as possible to try to give it a try and just discover what plant-based is like. And then we give them tips and recipes to then also understand why is veganism so important, why is it good for them, so that hopefully they will also then continue to be vegan. That's, of course, our dream that people will say vegan because we're doing this for the animals Primarily. That's why the beginning nonprofit was created is to save animals. So that would be our dream. But we really just want everybody to give it a try because it's wonderful, it's fun, it's delicious, and we're making it as interesting as possible so that everybody can find something that they might like.
Speaker 2:Okay, so let's go into day one. What does that look like If somebody wants to try veganuary? I mean, this episode is gonna go out on day 15 of January, so can people start now? How does that work If they listen to this episode and they're like, oh, I'm gonna start this tomorrow, what are they gonna do?
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, they can start at any time, even outside of January. It's just that the concept was created as a New Year's resolution or revolution, because that's really when people are interested in trying new things or they think more about their health or they think more about you know, what do I want to do as what is gonna be my impact in the new year, and so that's why it was started as a vegan January. But we really encourage people to try it anytime, so they can sign up at any time and then it will ask when do you want to start? So you can say the date that you wanna start. But primarily, you know, we encourage people to do it in January because that's also when we have asked companies, brands, businesses like restaurants and retailers to also add more vegan options, so that's when there's gonna be even more opportunity to try. There's also gonna be special offers and discounts during the January, so that's really the best time to try it, but they're welcome to try it at any time.
Speaker 2:When people start for January, what do they? I mean, are they just saying, okay, I'm gonna eat vegan for the next month? Or is there something connected with you that they can do that to get all of those offers? To get that information?
Speaker 1:Actually, I was just remembering I didn't answer your question about what do they get on day one, which I think this question is related to.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's start that over then.
Speaker 1:Okay so, yeah, what do they get on day one? Okay, so, on day one, they receive a bunch of like literature, so to say. They're gonna get e-books, like recipe books, meal plans with tons and tons of recipes, and then there's even like one, three different ones based on the calorie amount that you wanna eat each day. And then they also get a celebrity cookbook, because we have lots of celebrity participants and plans for supporters and they gave us some recipes, so that's always fun to like. Oh, I'm cooking something that is celebrity made. And then they're also invited to join our private Facebook group where there's just that community with all the other participants so they can exchange tips or challenges and really find also support from us and others who are doing the genuine challenge at the same time. And then every day after that, they continue to get more content, more recipes, especially just a lot of information about what's the impact for health, what's the impact on the environment and on animals by being vegan or trying vegan.
Speaker 2:Does it make a big impact? Let's talk about that. What kind of impact is it really going to be, say, if they just go vegan for a month?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we have some really great data on that. So we are basing it on one million participants. We have millions and millions who participate. So for every one million participants, the data that we have shows or sorry. So one million participants in the beginning for one month, right. So somebody who eats vegan for 31 days will create 1.6 million gallons of water saving. So that's the same amount as 1,645 tons of sewage spared from waterways.
Speaker 2:And that's the animal sewage, I'm assuming not theirs.
Speaker 1:Yes, and then they also save 103,840 tons of CO2 equivalent, which is about 1.2 million numbers of flights from London to Paris. Such as huge, huge numbers. And then another one is, of course, the lives that are spared, and that one, according to the Vegan Society. Calculators reports immediately 3.4 million of animals spared from a lifetime suffering for one million participants of humans. During the veganary. We have more than three times lives spared on the animal side, so it's really huge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is really huge. The importance of animals' lives, of course, and to eliminate suffering specifically, is a really big part of why people become vegan. And then another part you mentioned already as well, which is the environmental impact. Right, I don't know if you'd have these numbers, but I remember listening to some podcasts and seeing some numbers about how eating meat, or the meat industry, actually produces more CO2 than a certain number of cars on the road, and it was way more. It was a huge amount, way more than people really ever really talk about, which I thought was really interesting because it's the one thing we all can do, which I don't know. Is that easier than not driving your car? I don't know, but maybe comparable to not driving your car for a month. I think probably eating vegan would be easier than not driving your car for a month, but it's a bigger impact is all I'm saying for the environment.
Speaker 2:So what are other reasons why people might want to go vegan, or at least try vegan.
Speaker 1:And I can talk to the data a little bit more about what you were saying about carbon emissions. So, yeah, animal agriculture is definitely a leading contributor of climate change emission, but then there's also even the land use. That is huge. So basically 80% of our land, the agricultural land, is used for livestock and that only produces about 20% of our sheep-caloric supply globally, but the other 20% of the ag land that is used for crops creates more than 80% of our calorie supplies. So even from a land use perspective it's huge.
Speaker 1:And there's even this world in data graphic that I cannot show in the podcast interview, but if you look it up and it shows for each food category what is the impact, and a lot of us might think that it might be transportation of the food or even the package of the food, which was for a long time People were all about recycling, but they recently have found that the food production itself is what's the biggest impact. It's really like the land use and then the emissions from animals actually just being raised and living there, in case, in the countryside areas.
Speaker 2:So if we're only eating or our calories are only coming from this small amount of consumed animals, all of that land could be used for raising crops to feed people in a much more sustainable way. So not just good for the environment, but actually good for people as a whole, so we can feed more people.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, there is a statistic. I don't have it on top of my hand exactly, but it's like for one steak you need about, I think, a football field of land, but with that one piece of land you could feed 19 or so plant-based people, so it's just huge and it could save that. But also, you know, water is also very much wasted in the production of meat. And then also all the different stations right, a lot of the Amazon has been used now for cows. And then there's species loss, right, the biodiversity impact. There's so many things that are linked to it.
Speaker 2:So let's talk about our own health, then, because I think a lot of people well, they might care about those things seem a bit more distant, whereas themselves and their own health might be of primary concern right now. What does it mean for people? Can they go vegan and be healthy? I know lots of vegans, and some of them are not particularly healthy. So how do we make sure that, if we're going to try vegan for a month, we're not going to feel worse at the end of that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So it's very fun, I think, when somebody starts being vegan to discover that, for example, oreos have been vegan forever, accidentally, and pizza is easily recognizable, or potato chips and things like that. But that doesn't mean that's a balanced diet. And so first we encourage people to eat a balanced diet, lots of cold foods and grains and things like that. So our content does include a daily a dozen list to make sure you hit all the nutrition, all the ingredients that you should eat every day. And then we also do have lots of very healthy recipes in there. But there's so many awesome products now out there that are delicious, so this is also tempting to Chinese, though we do also make sure people know that's also sometimes considered like a snack or a treat, not something that you should always eat every day, even though there's so many delicious options.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for me, when I transitioned to vegan, I felt like I was at Disneyland or something. There were so many amazing things to try that I never knew before. I even now like mayo mayo more than I ever used to like before. I don't know why the vegan mayo is more whipped or something. So, yeah, it's not always easy to be a healthy vegan because there's so many amazing options.
Speaker 2:I love that vegan mayo. I always found mayo so gross and then when I discovered the vegan mayo, that's all I use and I really like it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But yeah, going back to the health, there's still one big thing like cholesterol is in animal ingredients, but it is not in vegan ingredients. So there's some huge difference in eating plant-based, even if it is the plant-based alternatives. So lots and lots of research continues to come out where they say that vegan, a vegan diet, or vegans have reduced risks of the world's biggest killer like heart disease, type 2 diabetes, obesity and even some cancer. And they continue to do more research. So it's super exciting.
Speaker 1:But then also in the Veganier Participant Survey we ask people what kind of health benefits have you found? And that's also super mind-blowing to me. I've been vegan for so long and or vegetarian even before that. So I don't know that I will ever notice these benefits myself because I started out a young age. But we have people who are in their 50s or even in their 70s that say I have never felt this healthy.
Speaker 1:We had someone who is 51 and his eye shield 10 to 15 years younger. I don't have joint pain anymore, I don't have back pain anymore, my A1C numbers dropped into normal ranges, I don't have cholesterol anymore. Or people are like oh, people are telling me I look younger because there's also skin effects by being vegan. So it's really amazing and overall, even just after the one month, almost half of the participants say that they noticed some dissonance in their energy. So it's just mind-blowing to me. Like I said, I don't even know what that must feel like, because I started so young to be meat-free and then vegan, but it makes me very happy when I see these things because it seems like it's life changing for some of them.
Speaker 2:I feel like the word I hear a lot is the word heavy Like you feel just weighted down, sometimes after a full meal with meat in it, and people who regularly don't eat meat but then occasionally do. Just, I think that's when you really notice that difference. You're like, wow, I feel so much heavier and just sluggish after eating a meal with meat in it. But can you get all of your nutrition from plant-based foods or do you? Need to take supplements too.
Speaker 1:You can get all the nutrients like every single nutrient exists in a non-animal source and there's so many edible plants and that's why we actually eat mostly like 10. There's 10 major ingredients or vegetables that everybody eats, but there's 20,000 that exist and there's just so much that we haven't even, I think, really tried in our lives. Like, I continue to discover new things that I've never heard of, but there's one that is important for everyone vegans and non-vegans I like is B12. Many doctors do recommend everyone to have B12 because we're all lacking the B12 vitamin, and some cereals and some other plant-based milks will have added B12. In our program, we do encourage people to watch that they do take some B12 on a regular basis.
Speaker 1:So that's really the main one, but everything else protein is super easy to get with vegetables we get. Actually most people get way enough proteins more than they think they do, but I think society has made people think that they need to eat more protein. But actually everyone is really good on that and I personally continue to or haven't actually in a while. At the beginning, I used to do like these blood tests just to make sure that everything was fine and also because so many people around me, were worried and I was like no look, my doctor says this is perfect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was the experience I had was when I actually didn't stop eating meat completely, but I was having these. My brain just didn't feel like it was working. I started taking a B12 vitamin and almost within a week, my brain was just working so much better. It sounds like it's just one of those things that people don't really realize that they may not be getting enough of, even if they are eating meat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I don't remember those stats, but it's huge. And yeah, my doctor always tells me everyone needs to take B12.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if someone wants to sort of participate in this, dip their toe in the water per, say, but they aren't sure they really have the knowledge base or the I don't know bandwidth, because everything life going on to really be vegan and to try this all the way. Can they still join Veganuary and learn or just do some of it?
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, everyone can pick and choose what they want to do in the program. We don't even measure what they do, we don't track them. There's no vegan police. We just share all the knowledge as much as we can to help them discover all the things, all the benefits, all the types of foods. But everyone is welcome to take it at their speed. Step by step is always the best way to learn. Some people will try maybe just on some days of the week, not just every day of the month of January, and then others might do one month and then one month off and then one month on, and things like that. Some people have done the January a few years and then eventually they stick to vegan, and others just do it from one day to the other, like overnight. Something makes them click and they're like, okay, I don't want it participate in the suffering of animals anymore, because they saw a movie or something. So some people will just go from zero to 100, but that's up to them. We're just here to help.
Speaker 2:What do people report finding the most difficult part of following a vegan food lifestyle? So we're only talking about vegan food right here. We're going to talk about other things and other episodes about vegan culture, but we're diving into the food part. So what do people find the hardest part of that?
Speaker 1:I love that question and I love to address that before people even try it again. So hopefully this will help your listeners. So the non-vegan products that people miss the most during the January is cheese at 36%, which is pretty big, and then eggs at 14%, and then there's fish 8%. I will start from the bottom. So the fish one is actually going to get easier and easier. This year there's been a huge amount of new vegan fish options and then you can also make a lot of recipes with tofu and algae to make it smell like your kind of seafood smell or taste, and then like the nori, you know, the sushi wrap. Yeah, you can put that like you can sprinkle it into some of it, some of your food, like I make sometimes carrot salmon which smells fishy because of the nori and it looks, I guess yours like salmon because it's carrot.
Speaker 2:So it's seaweed right, Because nori is seaweed and you just that has all sorts of really good like trace mineral content too, doesn't it? It's like seaweed is a really, really healthy food.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's also a set of 12 in it, so it's a good one.
Speaker 2:That's good to know.
Speaker 1:It's a sprinkle on a salad, you know a little quick, or something like that. That's what I meant by algae. Sorry, my English sometimes doesn't work. No, it's all pretty much the same thing. So, yeah, that's an easy one. And then eggs, that one. I think there's just a key ingredient that a lot of people maybe still don't know is called black salt, or kalamalak. It's very popular in India and it tastes and smells like egg, and so you can put that in your omelettes. You can make like a tofu omelette or tofu scramble, and you add that black salt and it just smells like egg in your kitchen.
Speaker 2:And I make the smell of egg actually. I mean, I know people like eating egg, but the smell of egg is never you like this. I do love a good tofu scramble, though, like when I go out to eat for breakfast in the morning. That is the thing that, if it's on the menu, I will get that every time it's so good.
Speaker 1:Nice. And then, yeah, I love making vegan deviled eggs, which the egg white is mostly almond milk based, and then it has the agar agar, which is that also seaweed gelatin that they use a lot in Asia. And then the top is tofu, mayo, turmeric and then black salt. A few more ingredients and it just looks like a deviled egg and even my non-vegan friends it was their longest time they were like I don't believe you. It tastes and smells like egg. You cannot tell me there's no egg in this and I'm like I swear it's this black salt.
Speaker 2:I want to try that. You should. I really want to try a vegan deviled egg. How do you even get the like? How do you do that? Is it a mold that you use to?
Speaker 1:shape it. Yeah, I actually use the pans that people typically would put their deviled eggs on. There's usually that little shape in there, so I use that as my mold, but you can even buy it actually like mold, you know, yet you would use for chocolate eggs. That was what would work as well.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, that's cool. I hadn't even thought, because I do love a deviled egg and that would be when I would be sad to give up, so that seems like a really nice. That would be when I want to try. I need a vegan friend to come and make that for me and show me how to do it, because that sounds really cool. Maybe we'll talk about that towards the end of the episode. Some good recipes?
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm happy to send you some, okay cheese Cheese, so that one is the big one. The reason there is because cheese and other dairy products contain a protein called casein, which breaks down into compounds that are called caseomorphins when digested, and so those attach themselves to dopamine receptors in the brain, which plays a role in the ceiling of pleasure and reward, and that's why we actually are technically addicted to cheese. We're addicted to cheese and we want more of it. Yes, that's why the cheese one is going to be hard and it takes a few weeks to get over that ceiling, right, like just like any addiction, like coffee, right, it takes a few few weeks of kind of suffering through it, wanting to have coffee again. It's kind of like that.
Speaker 1:And but cheese has also been booming. There's so many vegan cheese options, but you know, my one of my favorite one is also just to make it a whole. You can use a cashew based. You just boil some cashews and then you mix it with flavoring like herbs, and then nutritional yeast, which is another kind of magic ingredient that I I love when that adds the cheesy smell and or mostly taste that one doesn't smell that much, but yeah, so there's lots of awesome ways also to get over the cheese cravings and I'm French, so if I can do it and if I can get over cheese, I feel like everybody should.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've been introducing my kids to vegan cheese and, uh, and it was sort of hit or miss in terms of flavor or texture, I don't know, but occasionally they find one that they like and it's like okay, yes, we've got one, we've got one, we're going to use this one now. Sometimes it just takes a little experimentation too, right Cause not everything is going to be to everyone's taste.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. That's why I like to do cheese nights. I don't know if you've ever like. You know, like a cheese board and just buy a few different ones with grapes and you just enjoy it, and yeah, and then you find your favorites. So I love to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we should definitely email me some of your favorite cheese options, cause that would be a good one to try for Christmas.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, I like to make these charcuterie cheese boards for the holidays?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that sounds fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can send you some recipes there too, and I don't know if you want me to also get into other challenges that are outside of like specific sorts, but also like dining out and dealing with friends or some other challenges.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was just going to ask something related to that, which was sometimes this kind of thing is really hard to do by yourself, right? Just especially the only one in your family doing it. That's just that can be really hard. So what tips do you have for people or ideas? Strategies, I guess, is a good word.
Speaker 1:Yes, one good strategy is to make vegan friends or find a vegan mentor, and there's, you know, programs out there that do vegan mentoring options, like at least in my area in Portland. There's one that's awesome, and then that's just you know, vegans like me who will be there as your friend to help you, answer your questions or tell you about their local events and where you can go and have nice vegan foods and things like that. And then, of course, social media is huge. So, not only our own Facebook group, but also in your own area there's probably some kind of a Facebook group that's like the vegans of for me it's vegans of Portland, and if there's not, then maybe you can create one, and then there's probably somebody who's going to be looking for it too and they will sign it as well. And then just going out as much as possible when there is a vegan or vegetarian event, or going to the restaurants, the vegan restaurants in your area. Most likely the owners will know of places and events where you can connect with others or you can be friends with them, right, say I just. I guess surrounding yourself with others who are also knowledgeable and going through the same experience of trying it, or also who have already the experience of having been vegan for a while.
Speaker 1:And then sanctuaries is always a good place too. I think there's some animal farm farm animal sanctuaries a little bit everywhere around the world and you can go there. Most likely also the owners are saving these animals because they're vegan, so they can help you with all the other things about vegan life. And then we even have people who just they create the vegan movement. So we have that workplace challenge, where people can bring veganism to their workplace and they can kick us by having a potluck and then invite people to come and show them and try bringing some kind of vegan food. That's also one of my favorite things is having a potluck with friends and just saying, hey, you know, I'm vegan. It would be great if you also bring a vegan option and then everybody gets to try. They'll have the opportunity to try something vegan to prepare. And then they come and we all share some vegan foods and you share. Everyone is my donor. I was like, well, this whole buffet is all vegan. This is amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how fun. Okay, so why don't we talk a little bit more about, or is there anything more you'd want to talk about, the January as an organization?
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe I can tell you a little bit more about. Yeah, like you know the pledge, of course, everyone knows you can sign up and then try the, the, the January program. But we're an organization that was been around since 2014 in more than 10 countries around the world and with had participants from pretty much every country in the world, which is amazing. But additionally to all this you know program that we do with everybody, we also work with businesses. So we really encourage all the businesses that do like foods food agri-companies or restaurants and retailers to also celebrate the January and celebrate the again by just putting more options available for people, especially around January. So that's another big part of the work we do. Some of your listeners have a business. We'd love to have them also add more vegan options. And, yeah, we just continue to grow. It's like it's been a buzz and it continues to be a buzz and people sometimes don't even know there's an organization behind it. They just know about the New Year's resolution and it's just amazing how it's been so popular.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of my other guests actually who will be. When I interviewed her a few weeks back, she mentioned Veganuary before I'd actually heard of it. She said she'd started going vegan with Veganuary. So why go vegan if you're already vegetarian?
Speaker 1:That's a really good question. So there's two additional big food categories. So when you're vegetarian you still eat eggs and dairy products. So I know you have an episode about the dairy topic and why that is an issue, so I don't know if you want to get into that one too much, but the egg one I can definitely cover.
Speaker 1:So chickens have also lives and emotions, like are the other animals that people who are vegetarian might not be eating, and even you know, as a vegetarian. Back in the days I thought well, they have their happy life. Right, chickens are just out and about doing their thing in the grass. But all of these things you know are from advertisement or from childhood books. It's like the UCOP, but that's not what it looks like.
Speaker 1:Chickens are crammed into these facilities Most of the time. They never see the sky, they never touch the grass. They're bred to grow so fast that their little bodies, their little eggs, crumbled underneath themselves. They have hard issues because they grow so fast and they're also selectively bred to lay an unnatural amount of eggs, which is also obviously painful.
Speaker 1:And the fun facts about chickens that I also love to tell people is that they're very friendly and social animals. They have friends. They remember the names of each other. They have a better vision even than us. They have some poorer vision. They dream when they sleep. So they're also very loving animals and I think that vegetarians who are already vegetarian probably they knew what the chickens are going through they would also want to be vegan and so that's why, you know, there's these dairy and egg free options out there, so that people can complicate the animal free and make sure that there are no animal suffering because of the way that they eat. So that's why they continue to be more and more egg alternatives and more recipes out there for people to try. That's great.
Speaker 2:So why don't we just wrap up the conversation, before we go into the last three questions, with a few other ingredients that you like to use when you are cooking? Because I know we talked before and you were a baker and I am a baker, so why don't we geek out a little bit on baking and people can learn about some of the ingredients they should grab and what they can make with them?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the two mind blowing ones for me for the baking are the flax egg, which is basically flax meal, like one tablespoon of the flax meal and then three tablespoons of water, hot water, and you just mix it a little together, let it sit for five minutes and it creates this kind of gruy texture Like an egg with the, and you can use that in the pancakes or in cake.
Speaker 1:And so I'm very passionate about this, because when I was the vegetarian, I was worried about not being able to do my kind of passion of baking and I was like, oh, it will be sad if I cannot bake anymore when I'm vegan. And so for me, the suffering flax egg and the other ones I'm going to tell you a little bit in a few minutes is, I feel like it's magic, literally, because I can still make these wonderful baked goods and it doesn't really taste different, it doesn't feel different. My husband was also amazed by it. He's oh my gosh, if that's what vegan tastes like, we're good, let's do vegan, you know, because there's no, there's no difference. Actually, maybe it's even a little lighter Sometimes, like the cakes might be a little lighter and not so heavy like we were talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause what does egg do in a bake? Why do we use egg at all?
Speaker 1:It's usually to bind the ingredients, but also sometimes to give it a little bit that yeah, that's, that's fluff.
Speaker 2:Richness too, like the yolk is like for sort of a richer quality Cause sometimes you add more egg. So it is the flax egg. Do you think it provides that sort of aspect?
Speaker 1:I'm not sure that I know the rich in size, but are you talking about?
Speaker 2:It sounds like the flavor of what you're baking is just as good as something with eggs.
Speaker 1:Yes, yep. And you get even the additional nutrition benefits With the flax. It also has awesome nutrient qualities, so yeah that one. Have you ever tried flax?
Speaker 2:egg? I have not. I've never even heard of flax egg until now, so I definitely have to try that.
Speaker 1:I'll have to. Yeah, I can send you a video if you want it. Once, because I was just mind blown. I was like how is this even possible? Just this little powdered of flax and water just makes this consistency. Yeah, okay, I always wonder how people even find these tricks. Yeah, exactly how did they come up with that? And then the other one is agua-saba.
Speaker 2:I've heard of this have you used it? I have not. No, I don't know how to get it.
Speaker 1:It's actually the juice that is in the chickpea ken. Okay, instead of wasting it down the drain, I should just put it in a Tupperware for whenever I bake something next. And so you just put it in the mixer. It will take a little bit, maybe a few more seconds, to whip then on egg white wood, and then it just becomes like an egg whitey texture, and then you can add sugar and then you have the peaks of a meringue, and I've used that to make macarons and meringue and then some of them more like angel cakes, like more of the airy cakes, or like my yule log that I love to do for the holidays. Like that base that's a little more airy. So you need to have nobody egg whites. So then I put the agua-saba in it, and that one is mind-blowing to me because I love also to not waste. So you're not wasting the precious little juice that's in your ken there, but then you make some magic trick with it. It's just mind-blowing.
Speaker 2:How long can you keep it in the fridge for?
Speaker 1:I would say not too long. I usually try not to keep it more than maybe three days Okay.
Speaker 2:So like a normal amount for leftover food basically.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, yeah. So that one is a really cool one. And of course there's egg replacers so you can buy at the stores. There's bunch of companies that have egg replacers, so it's like the gluten free flour kind of thing. Right, it's like replace this amount for one egg. So it's very easy to do. But, similar to flax egg that I was just mentioning, that replaces one egg. So it's just crazy. And then there's a few more that are even easier, because you have a also ripe banana laying around. That half banana is equal to an egg. If you have similar to the flax egg, it will add that binding and that sauce is that big Wow.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's really cool. I have to try that.
Speaker 1:Apple sauce. Yeah, and apple sauce is the same. You can also put apple sauce in there instead of your banana, so it has a little bit of sweetness. You don't even taste the apple as a banana because it's a small amount. Those are even the easiest ones. Again, for people who hate to waste food like me, it's awesome, right, if you have something some banana as an apple sauce leftover, like what am I going to make today, and then you make something.
Speaker 2:That's really cool. So I feel like doing non-dairy baking is actually really easy now Because well, at least for me I'm in an area that has fancy shamancy grocery stores Seattle area in the east side and there's one near me that sells both a coconut milk, evaporated milk, and an oat milk, condensed milk.
Speaker 2:And I did those with my pumpkin pies for Thanksgiving and they were amazing, like absolutely fantastic replacements for regular evaporated or condensed milk. I didn't know that it was not a flavor difference. I'm not a big fan of coconut flavor but there was no coconut flavor using so many spices anyway, and the sweetness was just the same as evaporated milk or condensed milk. So I felt like really for dairy stuff, that's like a super easy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. I haven't even tried it yet, but I think for cheesecakes, the condensed milk right is one of the ingredients in the original recipe. I have been making it now with cashew cheese. Sorry, cashew, not cashew cheese, just cashews as the base of a raw cheesecake. So I haven't made a vegan baked cheesecake, but I imagine the condensed milk for the vegan, condensed milk for the vegan baked cheesecake would be amazing. So I want to try that. Yeah, but I'm used to the cashew ones. Have you had the cashew?
Speaker 2:ones. I have not had it. I really want to try that, yeah, cashew based cheesecake, because I feel like cheesecake can be so rich, like too rich. With all of that cheese you always feel really bad after eating, after eating a cashew cheesecake. I imagine that doesn't have that same sort of super heavy feeling.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, it doesn't have the super heavy. It's still pretty heavy because cashews are a good feeling, but it stays. I feel like it stays light because it has also that raw freshness to it and so, yeah, I don't know how to describe it exactly, but it's a different experience.
Speaker 2:You just take raw cashews and you blend them until they're basically powder.
Speaker 1:No, you actually have. Do you make that? Yeah, it becomes more like almost like a sauce. I would say. You boil them and so they're going to get soft, and then when you mix them, they become like a cream I guess a cream and then usually you add I have to think, is it corn starch? No, you don't add corn starch in that one. I'm thinking of the cheese, because it's the same base for the vegan cheese. So in the vegan cheese you add agar to make it more jelly-like. In this and the cheesecake you just add some maple syrup and then, whatever you're strawberry or whatever you want to put you just mix it all in your blender and then you put it in your pan on top of, usually like a crust that you can make with dates or nuts. You know something? It's actually super quick usually. Yeah, it sounds really quick. Well, that's really cool. Yeah, I always have a lot of cashews on hand. Yeah, I bet.
Speaker 2:Why don't we get into our last three questions, which is, if there was a book that you could gift to all of the listeners, what would that be?
Speaker 1:I love the book that is French.
Speaker 1:It's called Rue Zetche pour la Valéche, which means you are crazy to eat this.
Speaker 1:It's a former agribusiness professional who wrote about things that he saw in his work and he basically broke the silence on things that he's seen on, like ingredient buying, labeling and food quality control.
Speaker 1:It is from the French perspective because he's worked in the French, in the French company, but with lots of international groups, and I just thought it was mind-blowing as a vegan but also for non-vegans, what kind of things happened to the food. And, of course, some of the scandals we've known, like at some point there was like that horse meat scandal where they were packaging it for beef. But also things like just like how they add water into meat or vegetables to make it heavier so that they can sell it for more money. And like origins, like how they play around with where something comes from when it has ingredients from different countries, and it was just mind-blowing to me and I'm also amazed that he was able to write about all these things, so that one would be something that I think more people, I would love for more people to know about all these things, like what happens behind the ingredients that we see.
Speaker 2:And then, if I, can.
Speaker 1:yeah, if I can also add a little shameless plug, the January is also launching a cookbook that is available, starting for this campaign, and so there's awesome recipes in there, also easy ones that I think hopefully will help people like us to bake more and try on more of these ingredients that I was mentioning about. So I wanted to make sure I'll mention that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely All right. So would you share, like your earliest memory of your connection with animals or formative memory of your connection with animals?
Speaker 1:Yeah, my neighbor had cats before. I had cats on my of my own and I loved looking at them like close up, just admiring the beautiful eyes and how just cute they are. And there was this, this cat that was a little older and I was just looking at her and petting her. She was like sitting on the window sill and she stared back at me and then she did the head bump and I never really knew that Our domestic kitten cats did that. I knew from Lion King that's how they they pet each other and share their love. And I was like, oh my gosh, but this cat loves me because it was me as a friend, I guess, and I just had that. So it's actually warm. So I see feeling about, oh my gosh, we had, we had a connection, it was just beautiful.
Speaker 2:I love that I have so many memories of little. We call them bushes, the cat bush, when they just rub right up against your face and want to say hello and that they love you Nice Bush from the French word, or I don't know. You just always called it that when I was a kid. Oh interesting, what does bush from the French word mean? It's the mouth. Oh like, yeah, bush. Yeah, maybe it could make sense. Oh, it could make sense. It could make sense, all right. And what's the deal with animals?
Speaker 1:So that one is an interesting. It's an interesting question. I think we could talk about it for hours. That's why you have a whole podcast about it. I just always continue, you know, talking about the fact that we're all animals, and I just wish that people would remember it more often and think about it more often. You know, we're all, we're all on this planet and we all have this life here. We all have feelings and families, we have favorite foods, favorite toys, and I think we all deserve to enjoy our life that we have on this planet. So I'm always inspired by animals, especially how they enjoy their life, and I think we can learn a lot from them, like they don't hold grudges for long, they're generous, they're curious and they're friendly, and so my life mission is to be the change I want to see and to be kind to every kind, and so they're basically, I guess, my reason why.
Speaker 2:Be kind to every kind. That's a nice motto. Yeah, thank you so much and thank you for joining me today. I really appreciate you sharing all of your knowledge about Veganuary and your baking tips too. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:I'm looking forward to sending you some recipes and seeing what you might create. Thanks so much for having me, and happy Veganuary to you and to everybody. Yeah, happy Veganuary.
Speaker 2:That was Sandra Hungate, us Director at Veganuary, and if you have decided to join me in trying to eat with only vegan ingredients for 30 days I'm starting today, january 15th Sign up at Veganuarycom. Send me a message about it on Facebook or Instagram, or email me for my website at thedealwithanimalscom. I'd even love some notes of encouragement. I'd also really like to read your messages during the rest of series 9 episodes and share some of them in the newest TDWA newsletter. Happy Veganuary, and thank you for joining me as we tried to answer the question. What's the deal with animals? I'm your host, marika Bell. The theme music for the deal with animals was composed by Kai Strandskoff. You can see links to the guest book recommendations, as well as their websites and affiliated organizations in the show notes and at thedealwithanimalscom. This podcast was produced on both historical tribal land of the Snoqualmie and Quinal Indian nations. For more information, go to the Snoqualmie Tribes Ancestral Lands Movement. So what do you think is the deal with animals? The deal with animals is part of the Irore Animal Podcast Network.