90: Breastfeeding and the Dairy Industry: Vegan Motherhood with Journalist, Jessica Scott-Reid (S9)
Feb 26, 2024Season 1Episode 90
Marika S. Bell
"A lot of babies are born with an allergy to the protein in cow's milk that can transfer through breast milk, if you consume dairy as the mother....and a common thing that doctors will tell you to do is to eliminate certain things from your own diet to make the breast milk easier for your child to digest. Dairy {from cows} is one of those top things. " - Jessica Scott-Reid
Episode 4 of Series 9: Unveiling Vegan CultureTranscript
When Jessica Scott-Reed's young daughter developed a dairy allergy, it catapulted their family on an voyage into veganism. Our latest episode welcomes Jessica, a journalist and animal advocate, who shares her personal evolution as a vegan mother and the joys and hurdles of raising a vegan child in today's world.
Guest: Jessica Scott-Reid is a Canadian freelance journalist and animal advocate. She has been covering animal rights and welfare, food systems and climate change topics for major media in Canada and beyond for the past decade. Her work can be found regularly in The Globe and Mail, Toronto Star, Winnipeg Free Press, and Corporate Knights Magazine. She is also a regular contributor to Sentient Media. She is also a mom and dog guardian. Guest Profile and Episode Blog
"A lot of babies are born with an allergy to the protein in cow's milk that can transfer through breast milk, if you consume dairy as the mother....and a common thing that doctors will tell you to do is to eliminate certain things from your own diet to make the breast milk easier for your child to digest. Dairy {from cows} is one of those top things. " - Jessica Scott-Reid
Episode 4 of Series 9: Unveiling Vegan CultureTranscript
When Jessica Scott-Reed's young daughter developed a dairy allergy, it catapulted their family on an voyage into veganism. Our latest episode welcomes Jessica, a journalist and animal advocate, who shares her personal evolution as a vegan mother and the joys and hurdles of raising a vegan child in today's world.
Guest: Jessica Scott-Reid is a Canadian freelance journalist and animal advocate. She has been covering animal rights and welfare, food systems and climate change topics for major media in Canada and beyond for the past decade. Her work can be found regularly in The Globe and Mail, Toronto Star, Winnipeg Free Press, and Corporate Knights Magazine. She is also a regular contributor to Sentient Media. She is also a mom and dog guardian. Guest Profile and Episode Blog
So a lot of babies are born with an allergy to the protein in cow's milk that can transfer through breast milk if you consume dairy as the mother. So she started having some stomach issues as a newborn, and a common thing that doctors will tell you to do is to eliminate certain things from your own diet to make the breast milk easier for your child to digest, and so dairy is one of those top things, and I eliminated dairy and it immediately helped the problem. And as I'm researching dairy-free recipes and how to live dairy-free for at least the period of as well as breastfeeding, you start to learn about the dairy industry.
Speaker 2:
This is the Deal with Animals. I'm Marika Bell, anthrozoologist, CPTT, dog trainer and an animal myself. This is a podcast about the connection and interaction between humans and other animals. Today we're talking to Jessica Scott-Reed, a journalist and animal advocate, about her journey becoming a vegan mother, Her experiences raising a child as vegan and how this influences her child's health and eating habits. We talk about the wide varieties of vegan foods, how to explain potentially graphic or traumatic issues to your children without you know traumatizing them, and the connection between the dairy industry and breastfeeding.
Speaker 2:
And if this whole thing just makes you a little bit angry, we're going to finish with a few simple ways to channel that anger into animal advocacy. And if you've been following along with me and my attempt at Veganuary, which is going vegan for 31 days this year, go to the website at TheDealWithAnimalscom. From there, you can find me on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, follow the blog and, best yet, follow the newsletter. I'll be giving updates there and I hope you take time to write me a message about how you're doing and if you've decided to try vegan or even just a few plant-based recipes you haven't tried before. And thank you for joining me as we ask the question what's the deal with animals?
Speaker 1:
My name is Jessica Scott-Reed. She, her and I am a freelance journalist and animal advocate, as well as a vegan mother, and I write and talk about animals every chance I get.
Speaker 2:
That's wonderful. Me too, at least the talking part, the things I write, are only to myself. So let's talk about, first of all, being a vegan mother, because this is one aspect that we haven't yet hit on yet for this series, and that's the really at-home aspect of being a vegan. Not just about the choices you make, but maybe the choices that you need to make for other people and how you go about doing that and how you think about that.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, becoming a mother. My daughter just turned seven years old, so becoming a mother is what actually pushed me towards veganism to begin with. It was really this profound concern I had about choosing things on behalf of another human being, making these value judgments and putting food in front of another person who doesn't have the ability to know what they're eating, and that really freaked me out, thinking that I had this huge responsibility for this other human being, and when it came down to it, when she started eating solid foods, I just couldn't do it. She, already only at six months old, loved animals so much I couldn't bear the idea of putting some pieces of dead chicken in front of her after we had just been at the park adoring ducks. So it was actually in thanks to her, and also doing veganuary around the same time, that that pushed me to becoming vegan, and so now I raise a vegan child. It's all she knows, and I'm so grateful that she came into my life for a million reasons, and that's one of them.
Speaker 2:
In case you missed it, the second episode in this series is all about the veganuary movement, hugely popular in Europe for the last few years and starting to gain traction in the US and many other countries. So take a listen. That's wonderful. So you weren't a vegan before becoming a mother, is that correct?
Speaker 1:
I had been on an off again vegetarian but it wasn't on the exact value path that I am now.
Speaker 2:
Okay, and having your daughter about the same time I had my daughter actually my daughter's about to turn seven in December. I mean making that leap into veganism with a child, let's first discuss that. That is a. It's a hard hurdle to get over because you get a lot of information about nutrition and there are very few people that are gonna tell you veganism is the most nutritious or best way to go for a baby. For a child Like that is hard information to find and that's one of the things that really stopped me from leading my children straight into veganism, because I really didn't know how to do it in a way that I knew they were gonna get all the nutrition they needed. So how do you make sure that's Kesar? How did you get over that hurdle?
Speaker 1:
You know what it's interesting? I remember there was a point when my daughter was a toddler, maybe around two years old, and I was really concerned about her Omega-3 intake right, because that's something that we learn a lot about as vegans to ensure that we all get Omega-3, which is typically gained through eating fish and so I was concerned for myself, I was concerned for her, so I was doing all kinds of research. Of course, I found out that we can just consume algae oil for the most part. That's where the fish get it from, so there's a very easy plant-based supplement to do that. And going through that process, I remember being in a women's group, a mothers' group, with babies all the same age.
Speaker 1:
No one else was concerned about the Omega-3, right? The non-vegan people didn't even think about it. They weren't feeding their kids salmon a bunch of times a day to make sure that they got their Omega-3. So I realized that, because I was vegan and I was raising my child vegan, that I actually was doing more research and finding more information and becoming more nutritionally educated than most people were, and that was very assuring to me that it was pushing me to do more of the research that I may not have done if I was just depending on the classic recipes and classic nutrition advice that we all grew up with.
Speaker 2:
Interesting. So, okay, what were your biggest hurdles then? Because it sounds like that wasn't actually one of them. You know what?
Speaker 1:
It's more so the social aspects, so the hurdles of educating the people around me, ensuring that family members, who were concerned about the things that most people are concerned about, that you know, whereas your kid getting the protein from. The good thing is that, because I work as a journalist in this space as well, I wasn't just learning on a personal level, I was learning professionally too. So I had access to incredible sources. So I was interviewing for my work plant-based registered dietitians and other nutritional experts. So I was getting really free information through my job writing about this. So I was writing about my journey for different parenting magazines Today's Parent Magazine, I wrote a big piece about raising a vegan kid in an omnivorous world, and so through all of my work, I get that information and then I share it with those who might be concerned.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, excellent, and it sounds like your family became all on board. The rest of your immediate family are they at all interested in becoming vegan after seeing your process?
Speaker 1:
You know what? My mom went vegan in her 60s as a result. So I'm an only child and I have an only child and my mom's also my editor, so she has to read everything, or listen to me, read everything I ever write. So as I was taking my own journey towards veganism, writing about the nutrition aspects, also trying out the recipes myself and writing about animal rights and welfare too, she was getting educated in addition to me. So we all kind of went on the journey together and now she's super supportive and super healthy, which is making me really happy.
Speaker 2:
That is very nice. How about when your daughter refuses to eat something? How do you approach that any differently than the rest of us do? Mostly just like tearing her hair out and getting frustrated.
Speaker 1:
Exactly. I mean, she's still a child, right. I mean there was a great period there when they're really young and they're really just trusting you and eating everything. And I had her eating all the kale and all the chickpeas and all the beans and it was all fine Purées of things that she has no idea about. But you know, as they become older six, seven they start having their opinions and their preferences and she absolutely is just like any other kid. She would rather have the vegan nugget than a kale salad any day.
Speaker 1:
But thankfully, I think, because she was raised on so many different fruits of vegetables and different plant proteins, even if she has her picky weeks, she seems to be able to come back to the foods that a lot of kids today won't eat because that's all we have. But a kid's birthday party, for example, they'll order the vegan pizza, which will be green vegetables on a pizza with no cheese. And I'll see some of the other moms commenting like, oh my God, how do you get her to eat that? And you know, all their kids are eating the pepperoni and the cheese and stuff. And I'll say, well, that's just that's pizza to her. It's the only pizza she knows and she loves it, and it's just like how I feel happy about my mom having such a healthy diet. I love that my kid, amongst the vegan mac and cheese and vegan nuggets, will eat some green vegetables every once in a while.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I raised my children pescatarian because I had the same hurdle you were talking about with the fish thing. I wasn't really sure how to get around that and I did not really do enough research. Obviously I'm gonna have to look into that more, so thank you for that. But I have raised them pescatarian for now and they eat such a variety of food compared to their friends. One of my daughter's favorite things is lentil soup and she loves chana masala, which is like a chickpea Indian chickpea curry, as long as it's very mild that's like your favorite thing.
Speaker 2:
Turmeric rice is her favorite kind of rice and when I put these things in front of my daughter at restaurants or when we go out to eat, people are just flabbergasted, like how are you getting her to eat that? It's like, well, that's her food.
Speaker 1:
That's all she knows. Yeah, we love Indian food in this house absolutely, Cause we're trying to be low gluten as well. So Indian food for plant based and low gluten is just the best. And yeah, it's impressive when you get a kid to eat some of these things that none of their friends are eating.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely. It's funny it's like all the French fries and chicken strips in the whole wide world and they just want the vegan pizza. Yeah, so what are some of her other favorite recipes that you think would surprise people?
Speaker 1:
Well, like I said, the vegan mac and cheese. We can't escape it. But the difference is is that her vegan mac and cheese is made of a sauce full of vegetables and I've gotten really good at it. There's different ways of doing it, so we just. It's squash season right now, so I love making a big butternut squash and using roasted pieces for different things, and the butternut squash wave. Making cheese sauce for mac and cheese is just so phenomenal. You throw some carrots in there, onions, even potatoes, so it's like you're already getting this great plant heavy dish and she thinks she's just eating mac and cheese.
Speaker 2:
Wow, I've never. You have to send me that recipe.
Speaker 1:
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:
You'll have to link some of the recipes in the show notes so that people can go to that and try a few, because that sounds really interesting. Even if you're not a vegan, that just sounds like an interesting thing to try.
Speaker 1:
And just so healthy.
Speaker 2:
It's a way of getting more vegetables.
Speaker 1:
That's the thing you know. I see so many parents with young kids already struggling to hide vegetables. Right, that's sort of a trend is to hide vegetables and food. And I mean ask your vegan friend, because we are pros at that.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, the hiding vegetables thing has always been funny to me. I always put them out there and just be like here's your vegetables, this is what we're having. We're having some vegetables for dinner, and now we're also having other things too, but the vegetables always been part of it, and I always try and make an effort to make sure I'm cooking them in a way that they like.
Speaker 2:
Paying attention to what they like and how they like something cooked and not serving it in a way that they're not interested. I made zucchini, vegan zucchini chips the other day With some vegan Parmesan, which I thought turned out really great. They would not touch them.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, zucchinis are a not enough thing in our house too. I think we're on an on week now, so we're going to go for it.
Speaker 2:
Go for it. They love zucchini. Most of the time they want it very lightly steamed. If I over cook something, they will not eat it if it becomes mushy. But if it's just like parboiled steamed, then they're very happy.
Speaker 1:
Texture is a big thing with kids Absolutely All kinds of kids.
Speaker 2:
Big thing. Yeah, there's so much vegan food out there that actually isn't healthy. There's all of the chemicals and not that all chemicals are bad, but there's a lot of chemicals in some vegan food and especially the snack foods and that sort of thing. One daughter runs to the pantry and goes I want a snack. I'm like, okay, here's an apple, here's an orange. No, I want a snack. What she means is she wants something crunchy or sugary. Yeah, absolutely. How do you get through that?
Speaker 1:
The same as everybody. We just have vegan versions of things. I love some beyond meat. I love a beyond sausage. I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 1:
It's just. Everything is in moderation. It's the same way as eating any processed food or snack food or fast food. It's just mixed in there with the whole plate-based stuff. For example, if I'm going to use a beyond sausage, I'm going to roast it in the oven. Everyone complains about the high sodium content. I'll roast it with a bunch of vegetables and I'll allow the salt of the beyond sausage to be the seasoning for the entire dish. I won't add any other oil or salt. I'll utilize the oil and salt of the beyond sausage for the whole dinner. When it comes to snacking, we do the same thing, if you want. So Nutella kids love Nutella. My daughter hasn't had it because it has skim milk in it. We find a vegan version of Nutella, still full of chocolate and oil and sugar. But you're going to dip some apples in there. You're not going to dip cookies in there. You're going to dip some apples in there. It's the same strategy of mixing the stuff that we all love with all the stuff we should have.
Speaker 2:
Well, that's given us, I think, a really good ideas and basis for practical ways to either encourage our children to eat healthier or actually think about going vegan in our families, which I think is fantastic. Let's get into the deeper questions. How about we talk a little bit about your thoughts on the dairy cow industry and we'll jump into that a little bit?
Speaker 1:
Yeah. So there was a segue from in my journey becoming vegan and having a child, not just my concern about feeding her, but, as I was being a breastfeeding person, I was also on this journey because of her. My daughter's dairy allergies, which is a very common thing with babies, because cow milk is not really something we're naturally supposed to consume, so a lot of babies are born with an allergy to the protein in cow's milk that can transfer through breast milk if you consume dairy as the mother. So she started having some stomach issues as a newborn and a common thing that doctors will tell you to do is to eliminate certain things from your own diet to make the breast milk easier for your child to digest, and so dairy is one of those top things and I eliminated dairy and immediately helped the problem.
Speaker 1:
And as I'm researching dairy free recipes and how to live dairy free for at least the period I was while I was breastfeeding, you start to learn about the dairy industry and it blew my mind how silly we were to think that cows just make milk. Cows don't just make milk. Cows make milk because they're mothers. Cows make milk because they've had a baby, and the dairy industry takes that baby away right after birth in order to reroute that breast milk that's meant for them for human consumption. So they're tearing apart newborns and I'm learning this as I'm physically sitting there bonding with my newborn baby, breastfeeding her. Reading about this atrocity that I can't believe. I never even thought of before and it blew my mind and I thought I can't contribute to that. I'm a new mom. I can't imagine somebody taking my baby away, taking my breast milk away how dare they? So that turned me off the dairy industry immediately and I haven't looked back.
Speaker 2:
It's a funny thing that we just don't think about where our food comes from.
Speaker 1:
And that one in particular I know again, talking to my mom or people of that generation that maybe grew up with some sort of family farms and stuff, and they always think well, my uncle had a cow, my grandfather had a cow, and the cow just provided milk. No one thought about how that was possible and we've just gone on with that way of thinking and the dairy industry is very good at making sure we know that that cows just make milk. They're very sure to just completely gloss over that part. So a lot of my work as a journalist I've written about and exposed things that dairy marketing is really trying to fool you into imagining. Is this lovely process of cows just giving us milk, which is not the case at all.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I went to a farm where they were showing. It was like a pumpkin patch last year, I think around the same time, and they had a veal crate set up with a model baby cow like looking very happy standing next to it and letting the kids play in it, and they thought it was the best thing ever.
Speaker 2:
And I'm just looking at it going, oh Jesus, like I hope I don't have to explain this. I mean I need to explain this, but I really wish this wasn't sitting here, so I had to explain this, it's so disturbing, because this isn't as cute as it looks.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, very disturbing. I actually just finished writing. Perhaps when this comes out the story will be out about these sort of open farm day activities where come visit the farm and see this sort of fake version of what farms really look like. Because I think if a lot of children knew what was going on and saw the separation of mothers and their babies in the dairy industry, kids wouldn't be down with supporting that either. I don't think.
Speaker 2:
Well, let's talk, too, about how you talk to your kids about this sort of thing, because there's some pretty heavy topics and some of them maybe it's a conversation I've had on and off with people about what you should expose kids to in terms of real life and at what age, and how do you address this.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, definitely age appropriateness is important in anything we do.
Speaker 1:
So my daughter joins me in some of my activism so she hears things and learns things about the industry.
Speaker 1:
I think what's very helpful for her as it is with me as well is that when you're faced with something probably not like footage or visuals, but just a concept, so she knows that this is how the dairy industry works I think what makes it easier for her as well as for me, is the ability to then go do something about it. So I think that she knows that living vegan and being in what she believes is an animal rescuer we help whatever cat or bird in our neighborhood that needs help. So putting that sort of rage into action I know for me in my work that's the only thing that keeps me going and I think if for her too, she feels empowered to know that she's vegan and that she's helping. And I think definitely keeping the concept simple and at this point definitely nothing too visual is very important. You don't want to cause anybody any trauma. I'll take the trauma, I'll deal with the trauma. I do a lot of it already in my work, having to deal with things. So there's definitely an age appropriate way of doing it.
Speaker 2:
I was approached by someone at a restaurant recently that when I ordered my kids their meatless food, she questioned and I mean, how inappropriate is it that somebody is questioning you on your choices for your children? But she said, did they choose to be vegetarian? And I had to explain that they understood what vegetarianism was and that they chose not to eat meat. Now, have they always been vegetarian? Like she was very interested but variant in a very kind of hostile way. Yeah, like, did you raise them this way? And I said, well, I didn't introduce them to me. They can choose that later if they decide they want to. But all children are born. Yes, I mean they're drinking their mother's milk.
Speaker 2:
Exactly so it's not like I changed anything. I just kept them on that path until they were old enough to choose what they wanted and I gave them the information that was truth and she was horrified and the funny thing was she was so. I think it really shook her to realize that children were vegetarian. Like she didn't, or you know that babies were vegetarian. She didn't even like it took her back. Like babies aren't vegetarian, what do you mean? I'm like. Well, they're born drinking milk, that's all they drink, so they're vegetarian.
Speaker 1:
Well, and I'd argue, vegan, because breast milk is vegan, right, because that's part of consent. So I would say I'd say kids are. That's a great concept. The way you're bringing it up is, I think kids are naturally born vegan and then as parents, we all get to choose what we impart upon our children. Right, it's a value system. So I interviewed a child psychologist once for that that Today's Parent magazine article and asked for advice on how she was.
Speaker 1:
My daughter was about to go into kindergarten, you know, out of the privacy of our home and into the public school system, and I was trying to prepare myself for how to deal with the world, how she could deal with the world, and this child psychologist suggested that to treat veganism like any kind of family value, so the same as your neighbors might treat their religion or their political stance or just the things that they teach their kids about what's right and what's wrong and what our family believes, and that we're allowed to do the same thing.
Speaker 1:
And so we respect our neighbors who are different than us, and we just do things this way in our family and this is what we believe in our family and that's okay, and everybody's different. I mean, I don't always feel that way. I might not respect my neighbors, but I'm going to teach my child to do so up until a certain point, and so we just treat it as a family value. And when people have an issue with that, you think well, did your kid always eat meat? Does your child know where their meat is coming from? My child knows where your meat's coming from. So it's we all get to make that choice and I think, thankfully, veganism, plant-based eating, plant-based parenting, is becoming more mainstream. Everyone seems to have at least one vegan friend now, so I'm happy to answer the questions. When people ask Bring it on.
Speaker 2:
I wonder if one of the reasons why people don't think about where cow milk comes from in terms of there being babies involved and not just one baby, by the way like they keep impregnating the cow so that the milk production stays high. So it's not like they do this one time to each cow and they can get over it, it's like every season right. So I wonder if that aspect of it has anything to do with why breastfeeding women in public has become such a hot topic, especially when you're a mom. They sell all of these wraps and covers to like cover up what you're doing as if it's something that shouldn't be seen. Or I understand it's an intimate moment that could potentially make people uncomfortable because of its intimacy, but it's also very natural and children have to eat and I feel like people just need to get over it.
Speaker 2:
I breastfed in public. In fact, I had this breastfeeding bingo that I played with my other breastfeeding moms. Like where are all the places you could breastfeed? Like, have you breastfed in the wild? Yes, I breastfed in the form of Mike. And have you breastfed, Like all of these different breastfed in a McDonald's? It's like, unfortunately, I had to say yes, I have breastfed in a McDonald's. I got a thumbs up from a guy across the way too. It was great. Oh good, yeah right. But there is this sort of cultural issue with women breastfeeding in public. Do you think that's connected at all?
Speaker 1:
Absolutely, and in fact there's a really great book called the Sexual Politics of Meat, written by Carol Adams, and she's also gone on to write the Pornography of Meat as well and it really talks about the intersection of patriarchy and meat eating and how the oppression of women is intertwined with the rising popularity of meat eating and dairy consumption and that the way that the industry exploits the reproductive systems of animals, of female animals, is not so far off from the way that the patriarchy oppresses human women. So there's huge connections there and parallels. It's really all about the control of reproduction, the control of women.
Speaker 2:
There's this fear of emotions in public too. I feel like that is part of that.
Speaker 1:
Yes.
Speaker 2:
Again, I was talking about intimate moments.
Speaker 1:
Yes, there's also what's being called right now a culture war between big meat and the plant-based meat industry, and a lot of it's coming down to this sort of idea connecting meat eating and masculinity, and that there's the term soy boy that's being termed for, say, vegan men or men of a certain characteristic men showing emotion. That's the joke is that they're soy boys and that it has something to do with not eating meat, so it really brings that connection too. That is, if women need to be controlled and men need to be masculine, and how intertwined that is with these public displays and meat eating and dairy production Like it's messed up.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, really messed up, especially when you see some of those vegan bodybuilders Holy crap.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, exactly, they are big, Exactly.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, how could other people? You know you do a lot of advocacy through your journalism, so how can everybody else get involved in doing something? Like you said, you gave your daughter some strength to be able to do something and feel like she was participating, so how can the rest of us do that too? I think, besides becoming vegan.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I think there's so many avenues.
Speaker 2:
Which is the biggest step right.
Speaker 1:
That's the first step. You have three times a day where you get to make a choice whether or not you want to support animal exploitation and cruelty or not. So that's a pretty simple start. There's also really this great idea, this growing idea, now that you know be an activist where you are. We don't always need people on the ground holding signs blocking traffic. Those people are important too but we really just needed voices and advocates for animals in every corner that we can get them.
Speaker 1:
So how to be an activist and an advocate even in your own job, in your own space? You know your local restaurant at the table with your family, in your own community. And so my work as a journalist. Thankfully, I get to put my own personal advocacy into my work, which is such a privilege, and I help other advocates learn how to be a voice for animals in the media as well.
Speaker 1:
So something as simple as writing letters to the editor of your local newspaper is such a profound thing to do. So if ever I write an article about animals or plant-based eating, it's so great when there's somebody that writes a letter afterwards, say agreeing with what I have to say. And alternatively, if there's ever an story about a farmed animal or any kind of animal that's being objectified or exploited. It's good to have an advocate chime in and write a letter to the editor and say what they think about that, even if it doesn't get published, just to show the editor that this is a topic that readers care about, just to keep the conversation going. It's such a profound and powerful thing that just an everyday person can do. Everybody knows how to write letters.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, emails.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
They don't know how to write regular letters anymore.
Speaker 1:
Don't just do it on Facebook, right? Take that little comment that you wanted to put on social media and instead send it to the editor.
Speaker 2:
That's great. That's a really good, easy tip that people can do. So would you share a formative or first childhood memory of your connection with animals?
Speaker 1:
Sure, I remember the first time meeting my first companion animal, my first cat, chucky. It was a surprise. Chucky was adopted from the local Humane Society, which now, almost, let's say, over 30 years later, I'm now on the board of directors for that same Humane Society where my first cat was adopted from when I was probably a few years old. And I remember meeting who would become Chucky in the living room of my house and just this profound sense that there was another being now in our family, that there was another being in the room, that it wasn't just quote just an animal, that now there was another personality in the house. I'm an only child, like I said, so having an. It was like a sibling. It was suddenly there was another being in the room and it felt so powerful to see an animal that way and it's never really left me, I think. Now I see all animals that way.
Speaker 2:
How old were you when that happened?
Speaker 1:
I think I was about five, five or six, yeah.
Speaker 2:
And how long did Chucky live for?
Speaker 1:
Chucky lived Chucky back then we still let cats outdoors, so I think Chucky was only with us for a few years because unfortunately cats die very easily outside. We don't do that anymore but definitely left a lasting impact, had a number of cats ever since then and now I'm on to dogs and fish and snails and rescuing whoever needs rescuing.
Speaker 2:
Jessica, if there was a book that you could gift to all of the listeners, what would that book be?
Speaker 1:
I'd say any vegan cookbook. I do have a few favorites the Edgy Veg she has a great cookbook. The guy's over at Bosch great cookbook. Anything that really makes vegan cooking fun and easy and absolutely delicious and enticing. I'd say, try a vegan cookbook, try some recipes, try veganizing some of the traditional dishes you're already eating with your family and just reduce your harm upon animals every chance you get.
Speaker 2:
What did you have for dinner last night?
Speaker 1:
Last night I had oh yeah, lasagna, of course. Yeah, oh yeah, vegan lasagna. I love a little bit of impossible meat in a vegan lasagna, mixed with some lentils, so that's another good idea, right? If you want to cut down on your processed vegan meats, I like to do little half and half little lentils, little vegan meat mixed together, nice cashew cheese, gluten-free noodles.
Speaker 2:
I was gonna say what kind of cheese do you pick? Sometimes I use the you know the store-bought kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:
The store-bought kind. They're getting better. If I can splurge on a cashew cheese, I'll do that. Otherwise I'll make a cashew cheese. There's a really great recipe by a guy named School Night Vegan. He has a cashew mozzarella recipe. That's really great and I use that in my lasagna too. It uses cillium husk so it stretches and it's gooey and melty and delicious.
Speaker 2:
Wow, I'm definitely gonna have to look that one up and hopefully link it in the show notes. Send it to me if you've got it on hand, for sure, for sure. All right, I made a hearty mushroom soup last night with pearl barley, oh yum. I always use a vegetarian broth, which is amazing. Like why would you ever use chicken broth? Like, veggie broth is just as good. Yeah, and it's veggie, so it's better.
Speaker 1:
I actually have a vegan chicken broth that I use sometimes too. I mean, what's chicken broth right? It's just the seasoning, it's just flavor right, so you can have the chicken broth without the dead animal part.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and my kids love it. Like, I cut up the mushrooms really small and they just I mean, it's so good, Such a good recipe. I wouldn't think that one too, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:
Mushrooms are underrated. Mushrooms are severely underrated. I've started growing them a little bit in my house by the kids to grow like lion's mane mushroom, which makes an incredible steak and that's fun to do.
Speaker 2:
They're so cool looking.
Speaker 1:
Yes, they are, and they're so delicious and they're great for your brain health too. So, yeah, when you're vegan, you start getting into things you didn't get into before, because your world opens up to all these different foods. So, yeah, mushrooms are a good one.
Speaker 2:
Jessica, what's the deal with animals?
Speaker 1:
What's the deal with animals? Animals need us. Sometimes that means they need us to leave them alone, and sometimes that means they need our help. They need us to care about them, they need us to advocate for them and they need our help because animals are suffering.
Speaker 2:
Thank you. Thank you for coming on the podcast today. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2:
That was journalist and animal advocate Jessica Scott Reed. There's still a few more episodes in this series, so stay tuned for the next few weeks while we continue to discuss unveiling vegan culture. Thank you for joining me as we continue to ask the question what's the deal with animals? I'm your host, marieke Bell. The theme music for the deal with animals was composed by Kai Strandskoff. You can see links to the guest book recommendations, as well as their websites and affiliated organizations, in the show notes and at thedealwithanimalscom. This podcast was produced on both historical tribal land of the Snoqualmie and Quinall Indian nations. For more information, go to the Snoqualmie Tribes Ancestral Lands Movement. So what do you think is the deal with animals? The deal with animals is part of the Irore Animal Podcast Network.
