Founder Series: 4K HD Digital Fashion in Augmented Reality is Coming! With Charles Wilders & OuttaWRLD

Charles' Intense Progress and Joining Startup Bootcamp Fashion Tech

We welcome back to the podcast show Charles Wilder, CEO of  OuttaWRLD, where he opens up about his personal and professional growth since we last spoke to him 8 months ago. He shares insights as to why he's decided to pivot to focus on B2B for fashion brands, his preparations for the upcoming Startup Bootcamp Demo Day in December 2023, and his approach to honing public speaking skills.  He also shares how forming alliances with fellow startups on the program have been a game-changer for his venture.

Digital Fashion in  4K High Definition

How can digital fashion get even better? Experiencing it in 4K high definition in AR with the latest OuttaWRLD platform updates. Charles takes us through why the technical breakthroughs are opening up doors to his first pilots with fashion's mega brands, how such activations can push brands forward, and where the AR space is going to be taking the industry.

For entrepreneurs eyeing the digital fashion space, this conversation is a treasure trove of exclusive wisdom. 🚀✨

Experience OuttaWRLD on their app: outtawrld.io
Contact Charles on Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/charleswilders/
Listen to the previous podcast episode of Charles: buzzsprout.com/1962084/12747017

Transcript

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 0:04

Every startup begins with an ambitious founder and an idea, but what inspires them to take the leap into the entrepreneurial world? I'm Peter Jeun Ho Tsang, founder and CEO of Beyond Form, and welcome to our new founder series. I'll be sitting down with a few of our startup founders to hear about their journey as entrepreneurs in the fashion tech world. On today's episode, I'm sitting down with Charles Wilders, founder of OuttaWRLD, to talk more about his personal journey of entrepreneurship. We last spoke to Charles on the show eight months ago, where he set his vision for AR in digital fashion. It's been a whirlwind then and having launched 4K definition, new collab collections and, most importantly, a greater focus on B2B business with brands. Where's all of this intense progression and pivoting taking Charles and OuttaWRLD?

Charles Wilders: 0:50

Every fashion brand is different and has different requirements and is excited by different things different use cases. When it comes to technology. Our offering, or our strategy, is actually to really speak to the brand to understand what their requirements are in order to deliver the most optimal augmented reality solution for them.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 1:11

Let's get to Charles's founder journey on this episode of Venturing into Fashion Tech. How are you today, charles?

Charles Wilders: 1:17

I'm very well. Thank you, Peter.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 1:18

How are you doing? I'm great, thank you. Moving forward to today's conversation, we obviously had you on the podcast show six months ago over six months ago now. Today's a little bit of a check-in to find out how you've progressed since then, and I know a lot has progressed, so I'm excited to hear all of that and, of course, our listeners as well, talking about digital fashion, ar and also how you're going B2B as well. I'll include a link to the episode description for anyone that just wants to listen to Charles 's first episode that we recorded back in April 2023. But to have some context for today's episode, the global augmented reality market is predicted to reach $114.4 billion by 2031, according to Allied market research. This is a huge industry that you're tapping into, charles, and we talked about that last time on the episode, but I think it's growing even faster, certainly within six months. We've seen so much technology just coming onto the market itself, and especially digital fashion and so forth. Some of this has been happening. However, even though it is a big opportunity, snap Inc announced in September this year that it's shutting down its augmented reality services for business or RS for short platform less than six months after its launch, which is very interesting to hear that they have decided to shut it down to focus on other parts of their business. I'd like to get your thoughts on that a little bit later on. However, many brands still seem to be exploring and adopting a variety of virtual solutions, whether that be AR, vr, mixed reality, which leads into our conversation with you, charles. So six months ago, outerworld was in a very different place in terms of products, but also in terms of business model as well. What has happened since then and how have you evolved?

Charles Wilders: 3:19

Yeah, sure, absolutely Definitely. A lot's been going on and we've made a lot of progress. So when we last spoke, outerworld was really kind of beta-seed-facing and aiming to create very experiential and immersive digital fashion journey for our users. Since then, we've really been talking a lot to fashion brands and trying to understand what the best or optimal use case for augmented reality is for them. And the more we've spoken to brands and understood kind of what they're looking for in terms of ROI from augmented reality, we've started to pivot our positioning a little bit so that we can provide the solutions which fashion brands are most interested in.

Charles Wilders: 4:12

So we still have our flagship augmented reality platform in the form of an iOS app, which is fantastic and it's still growing, and our user base is getting bigger and bigger every day. But at the same time, we are providing augmented reality solutions for fashion brands and probably the most significant thing is that we're trying to do it at scale. So obviously we have the rise of AI and it's a really exciting time for augmented reality to harness the potential of AI to make the processes even faster, for example, breaking 3D models or creating 3D models, optimizing them for augmented reality use. We're really on a mission to streamline the process of delivering augmented reality solutions for fashion brands. So it's been a huge jump in terms of where we are now.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 5:08

And how did that make you feel, Charles, as a founder, thinking, okay, I need to pivot, but it wasn't what I expected. Did you just wake up one day and be like, okay, we have to be to be now just from all the insights you've been gathering, or what did that look like specifically?

Charles Wilders: 5:24

Yeah, sure, it definitely wasn't just waking up one day. It was based on the learnings and the insights we had gained. It made absolute sense to start presenting ourselves in a way where we could deliver these solutions for fashion brands in the best way, and so it was a lot of discussion, a lot of, I guess, trying to draw out and analyze where we could make the biggest impact in the fashion industry with augmented reality, and it definitely was quite not nerve wracking, but definitely, you know, it's a big thing because for a long time we were building this consumer facing app and now we've made the jump not jump because the app is still there but we certainly have changed our direction to really address what fashion brands are looking for, and I think there's been a huge amount of support for what we're doing, which has been fantastic because I think it makes absolute sense. It's a blue ocean of opportunity when it comes to fashion brands harnessing the power of AR. The ROI really is incredible.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 6:33

You say blue ocean there, but honestly, Snap Inc don't think so. As I said in the intro, they're shutting down the ARS platform, which is going for B2B. Why do you think that was? And then why are you doing B2B then?

Charles Wilders: 6:47

Really interesting, isn't it? Yeah, how that's happened. So I think the major differentiating factor between us and, for example, snapping is that we are very, very specific to the needs of fashion brands. We are creating not just general augmented reality solutions. We are creating augmented reality solutions specific for the fashion industry. And so I think, for example, aries, the platform they really pushed our virtual try on as a use case, which is fantastic.

Charles Wilders: 7:20

But we're going even further beyond just virtual try on. So, for example, one of our solutions is actually creating a product experience. So we're doing our first POCs now with some major brands and with one of them we're creating an experience around the actual product in augmented reality. So you can still try on the product. But we're going far beyond just virtual try on. We're creating a 360 degree display of the brand story in augmented reality as you're viewing the product. The product is animated and shows the creation journey of the actual product, again all in real time AR. So I really think it's important to note that augmented reality is one thing and augmented reality specific fashion is another, and we're focusing on the latter.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 8:16

So your first POCs. First of all, charles, well done, congratulations, thank you. How does it feel? Are you going to get great? Are you getting great hairs over these first two POCs?

Charles Wilders: 8:29

Yes, yeah, maybe not great hairs, but definitely there's been some sleepless nights and it's been a tremendous challenge going through the process of taking something before market, before you're actually speaking to brands, and now actually executing on what we've been talking about for so long. So there's still a lot of learning for us about how we actually handle the relationships with brands and learn what they want. Most importantly, but definitely it's been yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot because it's really important to meet the requirements of the brands, and particularly the brands that we're working with, with so much heritage and brand equity and DNA that we really have to be careful that we're respecting the brand and we're enhancing the brand's offering, as opposed to trying to change what they're about. That's not what we're doing. We're just trying to push their story, their products, as far as possible when it comes to AR and immersive experience.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 9:33

And obviously anyone that's ever worked with a big corporation before knows that they can be a big pain in the butt. So I get you, charles. So you joined. Start at Bootcamp Fashion Tech in September. Can you explain to us what this is specifically and what your journey has been like so far? On the next elevator?

Charles Wilders: 9:53

Yeah, absolutely so. It's been a fantastic experience. So it's a three months acceleration program focused on fashion technology innovation. The idea is that Italy is the home of some of the world's most fantastic fashion brands, but Italy has it's a little bit slow, if I'm allowed to say that, in terms of picking up on. You know where the trends are going when it comes to digital transformation or digital innovation, and the idea of the accelerator is that they selected from 1600 companies around the world, the 10 best that have the most exciting technologies or solutions to really supercharge the fashion ecosystem here in Italy. We are now in week 9 or 10 of the three month program, so we're over halfway and it's been fantastic.

Charles Wilders: 10:47

It's really been great to, first of all, learn a huge amount from a lot of the Speakers that have come in to do masterclasses. There's a whole sort of education section of the accelerator where we've been doing online learning about, you know, scaling a business, that business model iteration and canvassing, things like this. So that's been incredibly productive for us because it's actually really helped us define what our offerings are, what our pricing model is. You know, all of these things that take take a lot of time to really source out and I think probably beyond you know the practical side of all of the benefits with the accelerator.

Charles Wilders: 11:27

A Fantastic thing for me personally has been actually being with other founders. It's really been really very, very impactful for me to to see other founders going about their, their daily lives, you know, with their companies and seeing how they operate and also learning from, you know, maybe slightly more experienced founders. There's been really great. And we've also had the opportunity to partner with some of those other Startups in the batch. So that's been great because it's meant that we've pushed out of world along in terms of Our partnerships and who we're working with and collaborating with behind the scenes. So that's been fantastic. And Then we have the upcoming demo day, which kind of is the the finish line of the acceleration program in the start of December and we hope to begin our fundraising round.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 12:25

Yeah, so that's quite exciting. I think we also have to say that it's not just masterclasses, but you also got a nice chunk of money as well, which everybody oh, he's one at the same time. But any listeners that are wanting to join SBC or similar Accelerators what tips you have for them in being successful?

Charles Wilders: 12:45

I think probably the best tip would be only apply when you really feel you're ready, because of course you can apply, but it's so competitive that you really have to be in a in the right position to, you know, even get asked to interview or go through the rounds. So if you feel you're ready and you know your start-up is at the position where it can be accelerated, then go for it. But I definitely realized that you know, prior to getting accepted into this accelerator, I had made various applications or you know whether it's talking to investors or VCs or accelerator programs that you really really have to be ready and you know have have a lot of the foundations in place so that you can be potentially an attractive prospect for the program that you're applying to and how did you know that you already, charles, was that again.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 13:40

Would you wake up one day again and start ready?

Charles Wilders: 13:43

No, I think it's just the natural progression of a startup and you start to, for example, our product is live, our technology is working, and that's the first major thing is is your product available? Is it on the market? And then I think, also with my team and my co-founder, we just felt it was a great fit because it's specific to fashion and fashion technology. It's not just like a general accelerator where they're picking innovative ideas, but not necessarily on a particular vertical or sector. It's. The accelerator we're part of is absolutely about fashion, innovating the fashion ecosystem here in Italy, and that's a huge opportunity for us because that's exactly what we're doing and our mission to innovate fashion brands with augmented reality.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 14:36

Yeah, and I think obviously I've been following your journey since the start of Outerworld and I think had you applied no when we first met, it just probably was a no-go because you didn't even have a product, and I think that is something that many founders underestimate when they're applying to explorators other yes, you'll be able to go through a program. They're also an investor as well. Specifically for Satip Bootcamp, they do have an LP and that LP is looking to make returns eventually as well. Even if it is early stage investments, they have to be 100% sure that you're not going to just waste it.

Charles Wilders: 15:18

Yeah, absolutely so. Our investor is CDP, which I still can't say properly in Italian Casita Presi T De Polizzi.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 15:26

I can't say either.

Charles Wilders: 15:28

It's some long Italian words but yeah, it's really significant to have this chunk of money to really supercharge our growth and our progress as well. But they are very serious about we had to set our OKRs. We had to state what we think we can achieve in the program. In a few days I'll have a meeting with them. They want to know all about our progress and where we are at, with our demo day sort of looming quite close now. So certainly there's a lot of pressure which comes with that. But I think that's all part of being a founder is stepping up and taking on the challenge and making sure you drive results.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 16:12

basically, yeah, and I always hear founders oh, we want to find investors, we want to get somebody to help funders, but ultimately, when you do that, you're using somebody else's money, you're taking somebody's asset in the hope that you're going to grow, and I think many founders underestimate how much pressure and responsibility that does come with it, even if it's like 10K, 20K, 30k. By the way, I'm not saying this is what Charles got for our listeners, but I'm saying, regardless of the amount, it doesn't belong to you and one day they want it back.

Charles Wilders: 16:45

Yeah yeah.

Charles Wilders: 16:47

Someone said to me don't think of investing as the mission and actually think of investing as you're selling your company, and is that really what you want to be doing when the idea is that you're building your company? So I think only if you really are in a position where raising money can progress your development as a company, then it's applicable. But I think definitely for me personally, my mindset is we only need to take however much we need, and that's really significant because actually we're already growing. We're growing quite fast and that means that we can actually invest in ourselves.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 17:34

So let's go back to the business and the products. Obviously, we've talked about already how B2B is now the focus. I mentioned in the introduction that many fashion brands are still looking at virtual worlds. If it's AR, vvr, mixed reality, regardless of the performance, it's still virtual in some way. What insights can you share with us from the big brands that you have spoken to that makes it make sense to go down this path?

Charles Wilders: 18:02

Sure, yeah, definitely. I think probably the main insight I could probably share is that every fashion brand is different and has different requirements and is excited by different things, different use cases when it comes to technology. So our offering, or our strategy, is actually to really speak to the brand, to understand what their requirements are in order to deliver the most optimal augmented reality solution for them. For example, we're working with a brand which creates fabrics and they sell some of the world's best fabrics to luxury fashion brands and we were showing them how, rather than having just a 2D picture of the fabric, actually you can display it in augmented reality on a product and you can change that product and you can instantly switch between different fabrics and how. That's going to be so much more engaging when it comes to a fashion brand thinking about whether that fabric is right for their collection or whatever they're creating.

Charles Wilders: 19:04

That's quite different to virtual try-on, for example, and the brand we were talking to they actually had no use case for virtual try-on. It was more about product visualization. So it's really important, I think, that you consider what the brand is about, what they're looking for and how they can benefit from the technology. Probably the second insight I would mention is that the most important thing for the brand that we've spoken to so far is their brand DNA, their brand equity and their brand values. And actually there's quite a lot of hesitation from fashion brands when it comes to looking at technology solutions, because they are incredibly careful about how they're presenting their brand to their customers. So we've really worked on making sure that our messaging is all about enhancing the brand, telling their story. Not changing their story, just enhancing it, telling it in a new way so that it can create even more immersive touch points with their customers.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 20:07

It sounds like there's been a lot of learning that has been happening over the last six months. Is that correct?

Charles Wilders: 20:13

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely Particularly, I think, for what we're doing with augmented reality, it's really important that we don't just generalize it and we really think about how we can provide it to fashion brands in the most optimal way, and that has definitely required learning.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 20:35

Absolutely, and I think, when even myself I'm continuously learning whether that's one of my founders that I'm working with or a corporate fashion brand, whatever it never stops. So I think that's a nice segue into my next question. So let's talk about personal growth you as a founder and your journey. It has been intensive half year for you. You've traveled back to England, where you're from, you've then gone back to China and now you've gone to Italy, so a little bit of jet-setter there happening. What's been the highs on those since you last heard from you?

Charles Wilders: 21:03

Sure, yeah, so maybe let's start with the highs. So getting accepted into the accelerator was really significant for us, as we've mentioned. Gaining the possibility to have our first bit of money has been fantastic and very helpful. And then all of the learnings that we've just spoken about has really been the most wonderful thing for me personally, because I think I've grown as a founder in terms of how I operate, how I look at the day, how I look at maybe the slightly longer timeline for outer world and these types of things. I think, in terms of learnings also, you learn about the nuances, so things like resilience, and potentially you get a bit of bad news, but the next day you easily can get some even better news, some good news, definitely.

Charles Wilders: 22:00

From my side, on a personal level, I think my resilience level has definitely gone up and it's all about sort of keeping a level head and always making sure that whatever we do, we do it to the best of our ability. I think there hasn't been that many lows, which is fantastic. I hope it doesn't change. It's a start-up. So of course there are setbacks, of course there are challenges. Every day there's a new challenge. So I think, as I mentioned, I think it's just about being resilient and overcoming the challenges that come to any start-up and that come to any founder in that case, but definitely being part of the accelerator and obviously having your support. Beyond form, I think it's been really fantastic to expand the level of support that we have now as a start-up. We have our mentors, we have the accelerator, we have the investors, so it all sort of is starting to come together nicely, which is really exciting.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 23:00

Yeah, and I think on the next episode, when we have you back on the show, we're going to talk about the IFAParis pilot that we have been doing with the fashion students there, but just a little bit of a teaser to our listeners.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 23:10

I'm going to talk about it today, so you're going to have to check back, I guess, a few months time. I think one of the things that I've witnessed for you as a founder is that you've just found your footing. You found who you are as a founder slash an entrepreneur, I think and I don't think that's been easy for you and I also think you've found how to articulate yourself and hold your ground within the realm of fashion, specifically Digital fashion. One of the things that we saw in the summer was actually you spoke at Digital Fashion Week, which was brilliant, and you almost made that first outing publicly. It was like your debutante type of thing happening in front of an audience, which I think was great to see. How did that feel for you actually being able to just sit on a stage and talk about what you're doing?

Charles Wilders: 23:59

Yeah, it was fantastic. It was a really great privilege for me to have that opportunity to speak in front of quite a few people about outer world, about digital fashion and augmented reality, and alongside two other fantastic founders. It was definitely an amazing experience. That's probably something that I have been able to get better at actually during this six month period since we last spoke is public speaking. It's actually, as you mentioned, articulating what we're doing and making it clear and understandable for people. I think maybe when I began outer world, we took the assumption that people knew what augmented reality was. We thought that people would have a more insightful understanding of augmented reality and the potential for the fashion industry with it. But now, definitely something that we focus on a lot is communicating, whether it's to a brand or to our users or potential clients and customers articulating what augmented reality is, how it can be used in fashion and what the use cases and ROI are.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 25:10

And aside from the whole comms element, has anything else not planned out the way you thought it would do, since we last spoke on the show?

Charles Wilders: 25:19

Well, of course, as we've mentioned, changing our direction and focus a little bit to the B2B side has probably been the most significant area of change. But I think the nature of a startup is flexibility and being quick to adapt, and understanding that. Maybe actually I think it was you, peter, that recommended me the book Getting to Plan B. I love that book, it's one of my favorite books and, yeah, I think it's so applicable to startups and founders, because it's actually quite similar to what's happened with Outerworld. You know, going from plan A and then you end up at plan B, whether it's by design or accidental. I think it's just the nature of creating a company in a very fast-moving space.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 26:12

So what can we expect from Outerworld during the FPC demo day at the end of this year?

Charles Wilders: 26:17

Yeah, sure. So we will be presenting the results of our first POCs and going through the tangible data that we've been able to generate with those, and also our development and progress as a company, going from where we were before, or maybe when we entered the accelerator, to where we are now, which is the fact that we are actually working with brands, we're applying the technology, we've got our users wearing digital fashion items, we're doing collaborations with creators, designers, brands, and it will be really a great opportunity to tell an audience specific to looking to invest in fashion innovation what we're up to. So definitely it's very exciting, but maybe I need to even start preparing now, because there's a lot of work that goes into that five minutes when you're on the stage, even though it goes so quickly when you're doing it, there has to be a lot of preparation to make sure we deliver.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 27:23

Absolutely. It's about making that impactful presentation and I think many founders underestimate that completely. From what I've seen, I think for our listeners that tried the app six or seven months ago from a product perspective, they were to download it again. Today there is high fidelity in terms of rendering of the digital fashion. It loads a lot quicker, and I think my best tip to anyone listening is just download it again, go back to the app, experience it. It has progressed. The digital fashion and the AR is just so much advanced now compared to when we last spoke. So that's the top tip to the listeners. So I just want to finish off this episode, charles, with a quick fire round of questions. The first answer that comes into your head are you ready?

Charles Wilders: 28:10

Okay, I'm ready.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 28:12

Yeah, so the last digital fashion item that you created was a few days ago.

Charles Wilders: 28:17

It was a digital replica of a menswear shirt which we created in just three days to then present to a brand we're talking to. So it wasn't actually a digitally native digital fashion piece. It was based on a physical product which we knew the brand sell and we wanted to show them how quickly and how well we could display an augmented reality replica. Also, we just last week publicized our collaboration with Lana, who's a digital fashion creator, and she made this fantastic one one piece suit, which is on the app. You can check it out, try it, customize it, wear it. So that was really fantastic and we continue to build relationships with the best designers in the space. So, as well as brands, also creators.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 29:08

One brand that you'd like to work with doesn't have to be fashionable in any brand in the world.

Charles Wilders: 29:12

Any brand in the world, maybe Tesla?

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 29:15

Okay, interesting, wasn't expecting that.

Charles Wilders: 29:18

It just came to mind I was watching an Elon lost video before this, so I think that's maybe why I think it would be interesting what Elon would do with digital fashion.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 29:25

to be honest, maybe you could go with him.

Charles Wilders: 29:30

I think the reason I said that is because that's a fantastic example of a company taking a technology and then applying it to a specific industry in a way that transcends how the industry operated before and with the electric powered vehicles, it went from electric cars being boring to electric cars being the thing you actually want, maybe more so than a petrol or diesel car, and I think that's really interesting because I see that as the potential, with augmented reality in fashion, how we currently view 2D pictures and that's normal for us, and we're pushing immersive product experience through augmented reality, and I really hope that we can apply the technology in a similarly impactful way.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 30:19

One brand that you think is creating amazing virtual experiences.

Charles Wilders: 30:23

I think probably Gucci or Louis Vuitton leading the way when it comes to the digital experiences. They have in-house teams focusing now on that development of their brands. So I definitely think the company's with the most resources and the actual ability to investigate or experiment with digital experience, and it's interesting how every brand is doing things slightly differently.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 30:47

I think the key word there is the one with the most resources. Yeah, most money. The key word that otherwise they have to come to Outdoor, obviously, if they're a bit tight on resources. One tip that you'd give to entrepreneurs wanting to get into the digital fashion space Just get into the Discord channels and communicate with other like-minded people.

Charles Wilders: 31:09

This is a growing space and there's so many fantastic things going on. A lot of incredible startups, people, whether it's people coming from traditional fashion into digital fashion or maybe with no prior experience, it doesn't matter. As long as you have enthusiasm and passion, I think everyone's willing to help each other, support and progress this space as much as possible. Thank you so much for your time, charles. Thank you, peter, it's been great talking to you.