Mastering Digital Pattern Making with Andromeda Olsen Nalum

Mastering Digital Pattern Making with Andromeda Olsen Nalum

Peter sits down with Andromeda Olsen Nalum, a seasoned digital pattern making expert who's worked with some of Paris' biggest luxury houses including Yves Salomon.  Andromeda's technical expertise spans across Lectra, Browzwear, and Vetigraph and today's episode discusses the nuances between traditional methods and the dynamic realm of digital fashion design. From common designer faux pas to the technical disparities between standard and digital pattern making, we navigate the complexities of these software.

Crafting the Future Stitch by Pixel: “If you don't know how to pattern make, knowing a software is not actually going to help you”

Pattern making is a craft according to Andromeda. She highlights the importance of precision in digital pattern making, emphasizing the balance between visual aesthetics and technical accuracy.  Listen in to gain practical advice on transitioning to digital workflows, such as recommendations for software choices, training, and the crucial role of hybrid approaches. This is a must-listen for anyone interested in pattern making.

Connect with Andromeda on Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/andromeda-olsen-nalum-29a91412a/

Transcript

Peter: 0:02

Hello, I'm Peter Jeun Ho Tsang, founder and CEO of Beyond Form. We feature many stars as professionals and creatives in the realm of digital fashion on this podcast show, but it's a shift into digital garment design making the industry lazy in terms of technical garment construction, digital or physical. On today's episode, I'm joined by Andromeda Olsum Nalum, a digital pattern- making expert. Now I can hold my hands up and say that I'm certainly not the strongest pattern maker In this chat. Andromeda's years of experience as a lecturer, expert and, most recently, browsed words has been a lot as required to become a digital pattern master. We talk about the faux pas that many designers do, the technical differences between standard pattern making and digital fashion creation, and why creators should be cautious when they think they have a good pattern just because it looks right visually on the digital avatar.

Andromeda: 0:58

There is a kind of stigma coming from fast fashion to luxury. I was doing, you know, mainstream in Paris and I managed to get to really high end luxury brands. But I had that focus. I had that determination. People were able to see that I had that detailed focus. But if you don't know how to pattern make, knowing a software is not actually going to help you.

Peter: 1:18

Let's get the chat underway with Andromeda on this episode of Venturing into Fashion Tech. How are you today, A ndromeda? Good Thanks, good to hear. So we have a conversation hearing about digital pattern making and how you should get into digital fashion. But before we get sucked into that, for the context of our listeners, the global 3D CAD software market was valued at US dollars 10.83 billion in 2022. So it's a huge market. It's estimated to reach around 18.61 billion dollars by 2031, with a compound annual growth rate of 6.2% between now and 2031. And that's according to straight research.

Peter: 2:02

Lectra, the PLM digital pattern making software company, ended the year 2022 with revenues of more than 520 million euros, with an EBITDA close to 100 million euros. So let's just say that they're doing very, very well. However, it's obviously proving that social digital systems are shifting the fashion production system along, but design teams are still not necessarily having that many of the expert situated within their teams compared to the more traditional design skills, which brings us onto Andromeda, then, who is obviously an expert. So let's hear your story, Andromeda. How did you get passionate about this subject Just harking right back to you know, when you're a little girl? How did this all come about? And the fashion and design processes that you actually developed. What a great question.

Andromeda: 2:57

I've been sewing and drawing since as long as I can remember. I probably made my first dress when I was about 10 years old. When I did my A-levels, I studied French, spanish and fashion and textiles. So it's unsurprising that I'm here in Paris working in fashion. And then I did a degree in European fashion again, but I went to Italy instead, and once I got here to Paris, my second job was working with Vettigraf, another CAD software program, and I think just the way the technical parts of the software work, that's what really got me passionate about becoming a pattern maker, especially a CAD pattern maker. And then, you know, from then CAD to 3D, that's kind of what gets me excited.

Peter: 3:48

And was it always like that? The interest in the technical elements? Because you went to fashion school and in fashion school it is traditional pattern making by hand tracing paper pencil. Very true, it was the same for me as well, like we didn't learn how to use Lectra. I maybe had like two lessons on it.

Andromeda: 4:06

I was going to say, yeah, we did learn. We learned in Vestronica in the first year and then we learned Goebbah in the final year. But yeah, it was an hour a week or something like that, and you basically did a basic block and a little bit of grading. So, yeah, I was really passionate about textiles, embroidery, knitwear, Like those were my foundations for sure. But I really like the way that it's not just that it's a click of a button. You need to know what you're clicking and what you're clicking for. But the way that it's so precise and you can do it instantly as long as you know what you're doing, and the kind of attention to detail, the precision, like right angles are always 90 degrees, they're not, you know, half a half a degree off.

Peter: 4:53

It depends who you're asking. Oh, if you have a building contractor or something.

Andromeda: 4:58

Well, exactly. But if you're using the software, then, as long as you're applying the function, they'll make it 90 degrees and it's always going to be that. Whereas if you've got your, you know you're grading ruler, you know your pencil might be 0.3 millimeters, it might be 0.7 millimeters and you might just place your ruler a little bit off. Whereas long as you're putting the right tool on the software, then you're really getting the precision that you're looking for.

Peter: 5:23

So then, growing up was creativity for you about looking at those funny details, those technical elements, whatever aspect of life, but those tiny details.

Andromeda: 5:34

I think when I was younger I was maybe looking more at the big picture. I was probably away with the fairies, just inspired by everything you know, from paving stones to clouds in the sky. You know the colors of different leaves in the countryside, and I think it's just been a gradual transition. Just because the CAD software in general is so simplistic, it's not taking anything away from the traditional skills, it's making the traditional skills easier.

Peter: 6:04

And you mentioned earlier that you moved from the UK to mainland Europe. I think that's true. Now Europe and now Europe. How did that compare from where you grew up?

Andromeda: 6:20

So yeah, I grew up in the countryside of Wales actually, and now I live in Paris and others is very different. It's kind of something that I'd always dreamed of living in a big city, living a fast paced life, you know, looking for that glamour. It's definitely not glamorous here every day, as I'm sure you know, but I just really like the possibility that everyone has their place. It's kind of like when you're a creative coming from the countryside, you're a little bit the odd one out, whereas when you're in the city, you can kind of find your crowd From a creative technical perspective.

Peter: 6:57

Was it different in Milan and Paris?

Andromeda: 7:01

There's definitely different methods. I mean things that I've learned since I've been in France is like if your pleat is going outwards, I think it's an Italian pleat, if your pleat is going inwards, it's a French pleat. Things that we probably didn't even know that that exists in the UK. Yeah, a pleat is a pleat. I know that in Paris people are working on white paper or brown paper or maybe even tracing paper for their patterns, whereas in England everybody's using spot and cross, seems like in Italy people are using tissue paper. So there's definitely different methods.

Peter: 7:33

So any listeners that are thinking about learning lecture or any of the digital fashion software, how do you make sense with all of these different terminologies and getting your head around Like if you're working, for example, for a brand in France versus a brand in Italy? How?

Andromeda: 7:51

do you not get confused? It's always confusing, same as if you don't speak Italian or if you don't speak French. It's going to be confusing and it's just. You learn along the way. Everybody's got their glossary of different terms, different ways of doing things. I mean even the fact that in English it's a zip, in French it's a zip, I'm pretty sure in Italian it can be a zip, but in Spanish it's like cremaieja, like you know, like there's some things that global you know.

Peter: 8:17

It just depends, you just get used to it, so you know how to make patterns manually. Do you still do?

Andromeda: 8:23

that Occasionally at home if I'm bored.

Peter: 8:27

Okay, so it's more like a lethargic thing for you now, yeah, just like it's.

Andromeda: 8:31

You know it's fitting to my size. I know what I look like, so I enjoy doing it on real size.

Peter: 8:36

And I said right at the start of the episode lectra, the pattern making software company. More than half a billion euros worth of revenue. It's a huge company. It has a very strong presence in the market. You are a lectra expert and then you've shifted into Browzwear as shifting from manual to then lectra, to then Browzwear, which is a different software for digital fashion, helped you to evolve your creative process?

Andromeda: 9:05

I think that by doing it on screen, by doing it digitally, you've instantly got options at your fingertips. You can try something out and it just takes a few minutes, whereas if you were cutting and preparing by hand then it's a lot of effort putting the pans. You know, cut and slash it takes time, it's not even very accurate. If you're trying to do too quickly because you're not sticking, you can lean the pieces together carefully enough. So you've got all those kind of automated options in the software that lets you try very quickly.

Andromeda: 9:40

I really like working in Lectra, the possibilities of creating. You've got your main piece, you're going to create the face things, you create the lining, and every time you change the main piece you know all those dependent pieces will be changed with it. So you can make adjustments really quickly, more easily than you can in Vettigraf, more easily than you can by hand. So creating the pattern is quite enjoyable in Lecture and there's various expert methods or half and half methods that you can create. Then, going into 3D, you can directly import your Lecture DXF into Browseware or Clo for that matter, and you can then make variations. You can make your range. You can do the short version, the long version, the version with a panel or version without a panel. You can create colorways in a matter of minutes.

Peter: 10:33

You mentioned at the start as well that you worked at Vettigraf. True, obviously the Lectures competitor. How do the two differ? And for somebody trying to get into digital pattern making, do they have to work in like a company first to get to the expert level, or did it just come naturally for you?

Andromeda: 10:56

So I was lucky enough to work at Vettigraf. There's also a time when they were transitioning from a somewhat outdated version to a new and improved version, which they chose to call expert as well Vettie Expert. But it's not as expert as Lecture, that's for sure. There are the functions of creating pleats and darts and gathers and that kind of thing, but you don't have the interrelated pieces where your front panel is related to lining or the facing. You do have to adjust each piece one by one. For independent designers, something like Vettigraf is affordable. It'll cost you less than 10 grand if you're not buying the machinery, if you're just getting a software, Whereas like Lecture starts around 20, 25 grand, no matter what, even as an independent. So it's fairly unaffordable.

Peter: 11:48

So how does somebody get stuck into it then, if they just want to experiment, Go and work for a company, go and study it at school.

Andromeda: 11:55

That's kind of easy this way. I'm not aware of any labs or ateliers that went out Lecture stations at this time.

Peter: 12:03

How long did it take you to train then to become expert level?

Andromeda: 12:07

So I had a personalized training from Lecture Systems in-house at Marge and also at the Lecture offices, and that was probably a total of five days, if I'm not mistaken. And then I was in the deep end. So I had been working at Marge using Vettig Expert for a number of years, and then we had a new team member, like our boss, who had like 20 years experience of Lecture Expert, and so then she was able to help us along the way anytime we got stuck. So it took a couple of months. I was lucky enough to work on simpler designs, like I wasn't doing tailor jackets from the get go, but within a couple of months I definitely was.

Peter: 12:51

So you found a position that allowed you to do that.

Andromeda: 12:56

Yeah, so I was lucky enough to get my training in-house, but I also came from a family of geeks, like my dad, and my brother worked in IT, and I think I've just got that passion for, you know, sitting in front of a screen for hours and getting lost in the world of digital fashion making?

Peter: 13:14

Definitely yeah. For our listeners that may be digital fashion designers. We mentioned there that Lecture is pretty much inaccessible because nobody can afford their license as an individual, whereas Browseware, clo-3d and other digital fashion design softwares, you can afford them as an independent designer and in these systems you can also make digital patterns as well. What are the differences between a dedicated software like Lecture versus the digital fashion design softwares?

Andromeda: 13:44

So yeah, definitely, as far as I'm aware. I don't really know anything about Gober, but, like I've mentioned before Lecture, you can connect the front and the back, the sleeve and the armhole, the lining and the body, the facing, the lining and the body. So that is where you create the adjustments. They all work together to update each other and the same. You can also create variations on the garment, the long version, the short version and so forth, and I'm only aware that Electra's the only one that does that.

Andromeda: 14:14

So that is definitely lacking in both Browseware and Clio, and similarly to Vettigraf. So I would say that working in Clio or Browseware is really similar to working in Vettigraf. You basically got your vectorial forms and tools, similar than working in Illustrator, to be honest, you draw up the pattern. But the specificity this included in both Clio and Browseware is that you still got grading. You still got pleats and darts and gathers. You can lengthen the garment, shorten the garment, just with the tools that are ready-made in the software. But compared to working in Electra, it's a little bit laborious, OK.

Peter: 14:58

So in terms of outcomes, how the outcomes different though?

Andromeda: 15:03

So the outcome from 3D is obviously that you're taking your 2D CAD pattern, sewing it together and imposing it on a virtual avatar. Best part about 3D is that you've got an instant view of how you're cutting. So as long as you're cutting well, it will fall well on the avatar. If your cutting is bad, if you make a mistake in the cutting, it's going to show on the avatar. So it's easy to say oh, that doesn't look very nice. Is your pattern any good? So you've got that. You can create a multitude. You can create your collection within a couple of minutes.

Peter: 15:53

Many digital fashion designers. They don't necessarily come from a traditional fashion design degree or a pattern-cutting making background. Does that mean that all of these designers are making really bad patterns and they're just really depending on the visual outcome versus the technical outcome?

Andromeda: 16:14

There's definitely a possibility for that. I'll just say yes, especially with Cl0, because they have a functioned. I figured exactly what it's called, but it's drawn on the avatar and so, instead of starting from a pattern and throwing it onto the avatar, you're drawing a shape on the avatar and it's pulling it back to make a pattern. Unless you're a pattern maker, you can't manage how that's working. You can't deal with the fitting. Even pattern makers they necessarily know how to fit. There are lines, plumb lines, bust, waist, hip lines, rules about how wide your front neck and back neck should be. There's a relationship between the cross front and the cross back. Even pattern makers, who know about that, aren't always able to deal with it. So I think, much less technical designers.

Peter: 17:08

And we studied at fashion school, as you've already established. We were taught that we need to draft the paper pattern manually, by hand. We hand work over and over again until that pattern is perfect. Essentially, we don't necessarily need to do that in digital or 3D, as we've just established there, especially in clover browseware, where you can just pull things here and there, just shift a line here and there. We're not necessarily thinking about the pattern itself, we're thinking about the visual output. Therefore, do you think that 3D digital fashion takes a toll on all of those nuances between experimentation, time and hour, removing elements like inconsistencies or problems? Do you think it's making us do that?

Andromeda: 18:00

I think it's easy. I think even in manual methods, I think it's still half and half, because in manual you've got the English way, which is probably drafting, and you've got the French way, which is moulage or draping. And I would say, of the Twilies, the drapers that I know, I would say only half of them are thinking about the balance and the plumb lines and those kind of things. Even they're just thinking about the visual, which is why then people struggle to make it fit afterwards, because they can't quite understand, they don't have their plumb lines set in place Just for our listeners.

Peter: 18:35

What is a plumb line?

Andromeda: 18:36

It's a vertical line. You're going to pin a piece of string onto your mannequin You've got to weigh, it's just like for an architect and it's going to draw the vertical line straight down. So it's a guideline of some sort, exactly. Yeah, make it simple, sorry. The thing about drafting is whatever you can do on a piece of paper with a pencil, a ruler and a protactor, you can 100% do on screen. Whatever you need to draft on paper, you can perfect it on screen. Whether you choose to perfect it or not, that's your choice. I think sometimes I take a really long time to do virtual fitting in 3D. It's probably because I am thinking about the precision and those details and I don't want it to fall outside the kind of fitting frame you know, the balance between the front, cross front and cross back, or the balance between the front neck and the back neck. So I think it's always a choice. It I probably depends whether you're coming in as a pattern maker or as a technical designer.

Peter: 19:37

But for you, things need to be perfect.

Andromeda: 19:38

so now, that's how I roll Exactly. But you don't think that everyone should think. I think everyone should think like that. But I can see very clearly, and not everyone. You know, I've got 20 years of experience working in different fashion brands in Paris and you know, from designers to traditional pattern makers and drapers, to lecture teams to from Vettigraf teams or even 3D teams Even you know my team at Browse, where I was from all over Europe everyone had, you know, a different experience. They were living in different countries and it was just clear to me that not everybody sees it in the same way. Why do you think that is?

Andromeda: 20:18

I guess some people have been working in fast fashion and I think you know in, I know in Paris, when you've worked in fast fashion and then you want to get into high end or luxury brands, there is a kind of stigma coming from fast fashion to luxury. But I don't think, you know, I was working in fast fashion, I was doing, you know, mainstream in Paris and I managed to get to really high end luxury brands. But I had that focus, I had that determination. People were able to see that I had that detailed focus.

Andromeda: 20:46

I think you know some people end up as pattern makers, especially in lecture, because it's kind of a course you know you can probably even pay for it on your unemployment status, that kind of thing. And so people think like, oh, I haven't got a job, let me study lecture. I've heard they earn quite well, but it means that everybody's not actually interested in it, and I think you know it's one thing. To learn lecture at university is like you know, people coming out of university know all the kind of different software available. But if you don't know how to pattern make, knowing a software is not actually going to help you.

Peter: 21:21

So, on the subject of people not necessarily perfect in their designs, do you think then that digital fashion designers, or in general, where they're using digital software, where there's not necessarily that perfection level happening, do you think that is removing the craft excellence? Because pattern making is a craft, for sure. It's not something you can just wake up once, you can just do automatically. I mean, you can hope.

Andromeda: 21:48

I don't think it's removing excellence. I think it allows for laziness. But I think you can be lazy, you know, using traditional methods as well. I've definitely experienced that with some of my past colleagues. What happened, can you tell us? So yes, there's definitely occasions when my colleagues were not doing excellent methods and one of the brands I work for.

Andromeda: 22:13

Normally when you have a sewing pattern, you you draw the finish lines and you add the seam allowance. So let's just say the seam allowance is one centimeter. But normally you work on the finished patterns that you can measure the concave arm hole with a convex sleeve head along the sewing line to check if the measurements correspond with or without ease and that kind of thing. But you need to be able to measure on the sewing line because your seam allowance is a centimeter parallel. So because one is convex, one's concave, when you measure on the pattern edge it's not similar. But what they were doing is that they were adding the seam allowance but not drawing the sewing line, the finished line. So I don't even know how they were measuring their patterns because the finished sewing lines were not on the patterns.

Peter: 23:03

So it was basically guesswork, is what you're saying?

Andromeda: 23:05

Absolutely guesswork. I mean even like another brand that I was working for and they were doing made to measure garments. So the made to measure atelier would send us the paper patterns. They were finished. There were no seam allowances on the patterns. That's fine, but I would receive pattern pieces with no gray line. So good luck to me figuring out where the gray line might want to be.

Peter: 23:26

So just for our listeners, what is a seam allowance and what is a green line?

Andromeda: 23:29

So seam allowance is on average one centimeter extra around your finished pattern. That allows you to have space to do the sewing and a gray line is the direction that you want to cut the pattern on the fabric. So a standard gray line is parallel to the selvage, which is the edge of the fabric.

Peter: 23:51

Hopefully you can visualize that through the power of audio. But Google gray line and Google seam allowance and hopefully that should make sense in your head why you need those two important elements and information on a pattern piece. Otherwise it is guesswork and the factory most of the time will just be like what is this? You do need those information. So, considering there's so many ways now to do things, where do you think pattern making is heading?

Andromeda: 24:21

I think it's going to be a long time before pattern making goes entirely digital. I think we'll remain in some kind of hybrid mix and match state, but eventually I don't see any reason why it can't be fully digital because, with the algorithms and the various draping methods, the new avatars, the measurements, the tools for me, Pat, I believe that pattern making is mathematical. Of course it's creative, Of course there's fun you know time for fun and fantasy and all that creativity but your body has measurements, there are rules to be respected. So when you bear that in mind, there's no reason to not go fully digital. It's maths.

Peter: 25:08

A lot of things can go digital. It's just whether we want to go digital. That's the question. As we are in Paris, it likes to be a little more traditional here. Let's just say that.

Andromeda: 25:18

You know that was one of the things when we were purchasing punch fashion brands. You know about browser, about taking on browser, and you know some of the biggest luxury names and luxury are trying out 3D digital software. What I would say to them at the time is you know, we have this great several of fair. We go have this great heritage of pattern making, of design, sewing, you know, even creating fabrics. We have all those things in France. That's our heritage. But why not make digital fashion, 3D fashion, our future heritage? Why do we need to let other, more tech forward countries latch onto it? Why don't we latch onto it so that you don't take us over?

Peter: 26:03

I completely agree with that. I think there's a huge cultural barrier, especially in France. I don't know about Italy or Spain, because I haven't worked in those countries. I can only talk about France, but here I would think they're around the rather same spot. I can imagine I've heard some stories about both of those countries.

Andromeda: 26:22

Countries like Germany, the Netherlands, even the UK, because there's a lot more sportswear brands in those countries. They have kind of jumped on to the digital ideas, the 3D ideas, because at this time it is also easier to make sportswear in 3D as the software stands.

Peter: 26:44

So, on that note, I just want to finish off the episode with a quick fire round of questions. The first answer that comes to your head are you ready? I hope so. Let's see Working with your hands versus digital design.

Andromeda: 26:59

I'm always going to love textiles, but digital wins hands down.

Peter: 27:03

What's your favorite digital design that you've ever made?

Andromeda: 27:06

I made a 3D subtraction cutting dress, so subtraction cutting is a method made by Jule Roberts, which is what specifically? So, rather than cutting the design, you're cutting holes to let your body fit through. In a nutshell, but you can Google subtraction cutting that is pattern cutting and creativity at its finest.

Peter: 27:29

On a podcast for another day? Absolutely Maybe. Jule, if you are listening, we'd love to have you. Are you a fan of any upcoming Swedish digital fashion designers?

Andromeda: 27:42

Definitely. I follow Heaps on Instagram. One of my favorites is accidental cutting. She's creating wild and wonderful forms in animation. Also, edith Studio she's studying patterns, sharing videos and tips. Mylina Reformonnu is a French lady. She's one of the people who got into zero waste fashion really early on, so she's not only doing digital and 3D, but she's also studying zero waste, which means making garments with as little waste as possible, because zero is almost impossible. So what we call is zero waste nevertheless. Also, the Modely Studio they were originally making twelves in fabric with manual methods, selling their patterns as PDFs online, and they just last week launched the Modely Studio 3D and they're sharing their patterns in 3D format.

Peter: 28:41

What is your best advice that you give to a designer or a company who wants to shift their design process from physical and traditional to a digital workflow?

Andromeda: 28:51

Start hybrid, start with one product range, take it easy, be willing for it to take some time to cross over and probably hire some interns to help you get it going, because the younger they are, the better they know software.

Peter: 29:08

The biggest tip that you'd give to up and coming pattern making talent wants to make in the industry.

Andromeda: 29:14

Start manual, learn those methods, practice those methods, take your time to learn it and then get into digital and 3D. Also, as I mentioned, electra is ridiculously expensive. Chloe, you can get a monthly subscription and there is a discount for students, but the best thing to know is that Browseware offers a free yes, that's free F-R-E-E free license to independent designers. You just need to sign up with a regular email like Gmail, hotmail and all those things, and you can get enrolled for free as an independent designer on Browseware. Without the basic training, you can't be a pattern maker.

Peter: 30:00

So on that note thank you very much, andromeda. Thanks Peter.