Fashion Tech Applied Chapter By Chapter: Peter Jeun Ho Tsang & Von N. Ruzive Release their New Book

Fashion Tech Applied is Released
The first episode of 2024 and it's a big announcement! Discover the future where fashion meets technology in "Fashion Tech Applied," the new book released by Beyond Form CEO, Peter Jeun Ho Tsang, and consultant, Von N. Ruzive. This episode is your invitation to step behind the scenes of their 18-month journey of researching and writing this foundational book uncovering how technology is  being applied to the fashion industry. They share the emotional rollercoaster of crafting a book, from the initial excitement to the perseverance needed to cross the finish line, to receiving the final copy in their hands - which you can now have a copy in your hands too!

Chapter by Chapter
The co-authors take us through chapter by chapter what to expect in this 6-chapter book. Von shares first-hand her experience integrating AR into his brand, offering a glimpse into the immersive potential and how other fashion brands can also tap into the technology. We look at the opportunities and complexities of such innovative technologies, documented in various case studies, interviews from fashion tech professionals, and beautiful images throughout the book.  Find out the highlights for the authors and what they want you to take away from reading the book.

Listen now along with your copy of Fashion Tech Applied. Follow here for more information on how to purchase your copy and the book tour: https://www.beyondform.io/book

*EXCLUSIVE OFFER* -20% discount for podcast listeners. Purchase your copy at Springer here using the discount code*: 08cWPRlx1J7prE

*Offer available until end June 2024

Transcript

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 0:03

Fashion Tech Applied is published, my co-authored book, taking you through six chapters uncovering the technologies and innovations powering the fashion industry. I am Peter Jeun Ho Tsang, founder and CEO of Beyond Form, and welcome to the special podcast series Applied. Each episode, I'll be sitting down with incredible fashion tech professionals that are featured inside the book. On today's episode, I'm sitting down with my co-author, Von Ruzive, which some of you listening will know has been on the podcast previously. We're so excited to be launching this book after 18 months of hard work, researching, interviewing, writing and toying around with fashion technologies. We'll be going through what to expect in each chapter of the book and some of the personal highlights that we've enjoyed exploring and writing these are the ones we do really believe in.

Von N. Ruzive: 0:52

They're not any different from actually what we have written before. That it's really just looking at the technologies in the different scenarios and pinpointing those. I'll let you guys take the book and read that for yourselves. I think that's one of the main takeaways that some of them are a little bit more like must-haves compared to some that are just nice to have.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 1:13

basically, let's get stuck into the conversation, with myself and Von officially launching our book on this episode of Venturing Into Fashion Tech. How are you today, Von? We finally launched the book.

Von N. Ruzive: 1:26

Yeah, oh, I'm good. Thanks. It's been a while, but yeah, it's finally done. It's been quite, I guess, a year and a half that we've been doing this now actually, and, yeah, at some point it looked like we wouldn't finish, but we did.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 1:43

We did. It was a long journey. We started talking about the book in March 2022 and we published it now, actually at the end of 2023, so it has been quite a while, shall we say, since we first conceptualised what we were going to write about. What's been happening with you then, ron?

Von N. Ruzive: 2:05

Yeah, so since then, I did continue with some partnerships that I've been doing with IFA Paris, specifically with teaching technology with the students, which is something that we are covering in the book as well, about the importance, obviously, of the next generation of fashion designers actually knowing about tech. So, yeah, it's really just been a bit of that, but also separately looking at other ways to kind of have those kind of partnerships with different brands in terms of consultation, and also just my own brand, where I've been looking at innovation with a clothing brand that is fit for people with disabilities as well. So I'm going to be taking all of that now from Paris and taking that to the US now, because actually I do think there's a lot of opportunity there as well.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 3:01

Which is super exciting. So hopefully you'll be doing the book tour in America for any American listeners.

Von N. Ruzive: 3:08

Yeah, actually, well, our publisher, they've got a branch in New York as well, so, yeah, hopefully we can do some stuff there.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 3:15

We do have quite a lot of listeners in America, so anybody that wants to meet Vonn when she's there, I'm guessing hit her up and she can give you a signed copy.

Von N. Ruzive: 3:25

Exactly, yeah, we should do like a full on book signing and do like our tour, because actually between us we've now got, you know, england, france and the US now, so I think that's a pretty good thing.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 3:42

But, vonn, for our listeners, I'm going to give you the pleasure of announcing what is the book called and what it's about.

Von N. Ruzive: 3:48

Yeah, so if you haven't known about our journey so far, right, in this book we have been writing the book Fashion Tech Applied, and this book is literally all about the fashion value chain, from production all the way to retail marketing and really just focusing on the technologies that we can use across all of that, really across that whole chain. So we're focusing really on the different brands that have actually done this stuff so far in terms of AI, ar, vr. We're kind of covering the whole lot and then how we can then really just make fashion more efficient, more sustainable, all that good stuff, really just to innovate that whole chain.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 4:37

Absolutely. If anybody that's interested in buying or purchasing the book, we're going to put our links with the episode notes on our respective podcast platforms and also there'll be some information on our website and, of course, linkedin as well. So go hunting for some information. It's so exciting to be able just to talk about what we have been doing over the last few years and obviously, vonn, you have been part of that as part of Beyondform as well, and obviously with Foundry Power by IFA Paris and IFA Paris and the courses that we've been able to just, I guess, populate all of our learnings and people that we've met and key insights good and bad actually into this. But I think that's what has been like quite lethargic for me in the writing process, and the book itself is probably only one snapshot of everything that we have learned, and I think you will agree with this, but I think we could have written a lot more than we did do.

Von N. Ruzive: 5:42

Oh yeah, I completely agree, because I remember when it was done and then we kind of, you know, gave it in to the publishers and I'm thinking, yeah, actually, you know, we, we, we covered a lot, but I know that there's even more. That's even happening after we finish writing and it's always going to keep going. So, maybe future editions, but no, I think, yeah, it just shows you as well the potential of of tech. At the moment it's just touching the surface, I think.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 6:14

What's inside the book Vonn? How many chapters? What are we talking about specifically? Shall we go through one by one the chapters?

Von N. Ruzive: 6:20

Well, I can start off with really kind of the beginning. So we have the whole intro about what is actually fashion tech, because, you know, a lot of people don't actually know what it is when I tell them that you know, this is what I'm working on and you know I'm excited about all this technology and they're like for fashion, okay. So then I have to give some examples. So really, that is what that first introduction is all about. It's really like, you know, this is what the fashion technical chain is looking like, and then this is what the technologies that exist can do, just in a, you know, overall analysis, and then these are the people that are involved in this whole thing. So we're talking about the stakeholders. So in this case, I mentioned earlier already the designers of the future, and they are definitely a huge part of this. So actually in that chapter I'm talking about my work with IFA Paris, where I have been really hands-on with these students telling them about all these possibilities. We did cover other things that aren't in the book, like 3D printing and laser cutting. However, we do have just the general knowledge that they needed to learn as well to just know the full scope of technology. So that is obviously AI, trying out some of the stuff that our startups, when we're working together, were actually working on. And then actually, what I did really at some point was to just see what do they know before we actually start teaching them anything, versus afterwards. And actually, yeah, the hypothesis was correct that really they just don't know it yet, and this is not specific to IFA Paris. We've seen that this is also across other schools. Having learned fashion design ourselves as well, peter and myself, we know that they don't necessarily teach that in a in a typical fashion design bachelor's or master's, in terms of even business as well, because this is really a huge part of what this whole fashion tech future is all about. You need to kind of know these different sectors, put it together to make it work.

Von N. Ruzive: 8:33

But just to kind of look at one of the tables, just a little glimpse into what's in the book, we do have we kind of had this pie chart where we are looking at what do they know so far, or what have they heard, maybe at an internship with a brand or just in general mainstream fashion?

Von N. Ruzive: 8:54

Actually, just looking at the pie chart here, digital fashion was one of the ones they have got an introduction to, with 48.5% of them saying they had heard of Clothe 3D, those digital design software is where you have digital garments that can be made into NFTs, etc. But I do think they had heard of that because of us actually not because obviously I'm not trying to chew our horn here but this is really the reality, that obviously I think that is one of the reasons why they came to IFA Paris as well, because this is what we're teaching them. But if we were to ask this maybe before they even heard of IFA Paris probably wouldn't have heard of it. And I think really what to blame should I say, is that mainstream fashion just isn't doing it, that mainstream yet. And if mainstream brands are doing it, it's not necessarily in a mainstream way that they would do their campaigns. Normally it's just kind of in the corner, that little thing they might post on LinkedIn, but you're not going to see it on their website or something.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 10:03

I think it's very interesting from the server that you did from with your students is that, even though they had thought about technologies in some way, the majority didn't integrate it into their design or creative process in any way yet.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 10:22

And it does, I guess, create the question of so one of these guys going to get kickstarted, because at the same time, obviously, when we're speaking to fashion brands, they want to have talent that has these sorts of skills that they are looking for proactively to hire. So I'm just wondering how do they move on from, okay, fashion design is pen to paper pattern cutting and twirling on the dummy, which, of course, is great. There's nothing wrong with that in any way, shape or form, and I think that's what we're trying to say in the book. We're not trying to replace your traditional processes with technology. This is what we're saying in chapter one, but it's how do we now take it even further with technology and how can you upskill and we obviously come back around to this in the conclusion of the book is you want to really future proof yourself is kind of my key takeaway from the results that you were just talking about. So I guess for any listeners out there is to get started ASAP with these sorts of things.

Von N. Ruzive: 11:28

Well, yes, most definitely, and I have had some people actually approaching me about how do I get started and really there are some online courses happening now. You can go to schools such as, I think, paris and there are a few others where I actually studied not to come to university, what they are starting to learn Climbs, rudy, etc. So it's slowly getting there with the education part and even just mindset, I think just to end on that note that Jean-Baptiste did mention so the CEO of IFA he actually mentioned, also quoted in the book that really the mindset is, you know, traditional is the way to go with fashion and that's obviously what we're seeing with why brands like Chanel, for example, wouldn't shout about a new technology they're using because they're known as this, you know, traditional, cool brand. So, yeah, really now it's about just trying to change that mindset across the board. So everyone's just open minded to try something new, absolutely, and for our listeners.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 12:30

You can get this book as a ebook, but also as a printed version as well, which will go through those details at the end. At the end of each chapter, we also have an activity of some sort, whether that's to check out a specific technology or to reflect on the way that you are working with technologies in your fashion practice. That's the end of every chapter, because we do obviously don't want to just tell you what's happening, but also encourage you as well to adopt some of the technologies already. Just be inspired, explore in some way, shape or form, and, as Vaughn mentioned, both of us are trained in fashion design more of your traditional processes. So it has been a journey for us, both of us adopting technologies into our own practices as well, which I guess goes into chapter two, which is called the next evolution of design. The very first question that we ask in that chapter is can anyone now become a designer? I don't know if your opinion has changed on that recently, vaughn, or is it still the same?

Von N. Ruzive: 13:35

You know what I think, because I know in the book what we said about that was you know, genitalia of AI is really the reason why anyone can become a designer, and some other factors as well. And obviously that means someone who's never been to fashion school can literally sit down, get a design done with AI, and I think that's great. But I still don't think, I'm not sure if this opinion really goes through the. I think no. I think I did make that quite clear in the book as well that it's not too. We are kind of.

Von N. Ruzive: 14:06

We still kind of have two, then, definitions of what a designer is in this case, because I'm thinking of it as, when I think of a designer yes, I am going to think of it in a very more traditional way where the individual thinks of the silhouette and all this stuff, colors, everything, all that combination to make this whole collection, and then that is the person who is the designer. But if we're now looking at, dare I say, a shortcut version where we have this AI pretty much kind of doing everything for you, that's where now we are turning into a, I guess, just a new type of designer. But I would say that not necessarily this designer is like anyone can necessarily be a designer, but it just depends which definition we're using for it or which explanation we're using for what a designer is.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 14:59

Yeah, I completely agree with that. Maybe I would paraphrase that necessarily a shortcut, but I think everyone now can be inspired to create their own product using technology, which generative AI does allow you to do very easily. If we look in the example of T-Fashion, which is one of the case studies in the book, you just need to type in some prompts, so, for example, long dress, summer 2024 with floral patterns, and it needs to have a frilly hem, and it will give you some variations for some ideas in some way, which is great, and obviously that's great for quick visualization, but, yes, it doesn't necessarily help you to design the entire spectrum of what I guess you and I would classify as design, shall we say. I think it's very exciting, though, that the new technologies, such as AI, is reconfiguring the way we think about design and what it does mean to be a designer. I think I guess it's more about the debate that we're having there. I know that you tried some of those tools. Have any of been your favorites from a design perspective?

Von N. Ruzive: 16:22

Yes, so I have tried, obviously, dc Suite, which is a digital design software.

Von N. Ruzive: 16:29

That one is actually what we are comparing as well on there, not necessarily that specific software, but A3D digital design software versus generative AI. One of the main points that we are seeing, obviously, is that there are very different processes. One is a lot more than the other, which obviously you can discover in the book, and I think what I would prefer definitely is the 3D digital design software roots. Just because I do get to really just design whatever is in my head With AI though I still do like it actually as much as I can say, oh, maybe it's a shortcut. There are a lot of things you still need to consider with the prompts. You still have to actually be accurate with the way that you're describing the government that you're trying to create, and you can actually get a lot more ideas than maybe what you initially had. So it is quite interesting on both ends, but I do still think that 3D digital design software makes sense, just that now we have the pattern cutting thing, which is another story that is involved in that process.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 17:39

I've always said this. You know where we met Vaughn is that when I was starting digital fashion, you know, in the late 2000s, we were still very much the geeks in the corner, and this is, I guess, the kind of sentiment that I do put across in the parts that I've written in the book as well. We wear geeks in the corner tinkering away with digital fashion, and there's no longer the case, which I'm very happy to see that it has progressed and I think one of the sentiments that we have in the book as well is that progression element, and I think that's very important. What we're talking about in the book is 2022 to 2023, it has a technology. A lot of these technologies are going to progress so much more in the next two to five years anyway, so we're going to have to do a second edition, I think, vaughn, to be able to keep up to date anyway.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 18:35

From that perspective, one of the things that I liked in the book are we do actually feature interviews with industry professionals, and in Chapter 2, we call them the insider perspective, and in Chapter 2, we have an interview with John Lau, who is the Dean of Academic Strategy at London College of Fashion, and he talked about what fashion designers need to learn for competitive advantage. So, going back to our earlier point and actually what we talked about in Chapter 1, it's about how do you make yourself a little bit more employable. We know that there's not enough fashion design jobs out there anyway, and we know that it's very difficult to get your own fashion brand onto the market, which you and I, vaughn, have been in a place, and I think you are still in that place with your fashion brand as well. It's just incredibly difficult. So it's about how do you always turbocharge yourself with new skills?

Von N. Ruzive: 19:40

But I know another thing as well that we speak about in the next chapter is also the fact that it's not just the visuals but it's also the physical elements of what a garment is made from, Because obviously we're talking about digital tech a lot, but we also have the actual physical fabrics, biomaterials, that can be used to also innovate a fashion brand. I know that you that was one of your main focuses. Can you take us through that section?

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 20:12

Yes, so chapter three is called production and the connected supply chain. One of those parts that I'm talking about in the chapter is about biofabrication, and we have the case study of Altsmatt with Sheikha. It's based out in India and what she's done is she's basically made a bio refinery that creates fabrics that are suitable for clothing made out of agricultural waste so, for example, from your crops of wheat or sweet corn or whatever you have all of these leaves that normally just get thrown away or put into a landfill. And essentially what Altsmatt does is it takes all of that waste, it puts it into a vat of chemicals and it turns that into liquid that can then be solidified and turned into usable fibers, spun into then yarns and then eventually into fabrics, and I think that is super exciting.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 21:13

She's currently doing some pilots and tests with some very big fashion brands and I think we are at the very beginning points of new material innovations such as Altsmatt into mainstream fashion. However, the downside to that is that it's still very costly to do this type of fabrication or fashion, and not all fashion brands actually have yet warmed up to the idea of biofabrics, either for cost purposes, for aesthetics and design purposes, or just because they just don't want to, basically because it's just something extra for them to think about and to explore. I'm not saying that, obviously, you and I agree, vom, but it's just the way the industry currently is, and I think that's one of the things that we also want to get across in the book as well is okay, it might seem difficult right now. It might seem that there's a very long distance for brands to go to get to that next stage. Both you and I agree that it's actually needed to make that happen.

Von N. Ruzive: 22:21

Most definitely yeah, because there are more factors than just, oh, let's have this greenwashing of a marketing strategy just to say that we're sustainable, but actually there are factors like the actual planet that are determined by those actions that are being taken in the fashion industry, and I guess that's also why other technologies that are linked to that, so that we're kind of going back to the digital side, but linking it with those types of biomaterials is what we speak about in terms of looking at digital passports, for example, seeing that journey of the fabric, how it was made from start to finish, having that accountability and traceability as well as a customer, but also as the person you know actually purchasing these fabrics for your brand.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 23:16

What was your favorite technology in Chapter 3 that we talked about?

Von N. Ruzive: 23:20

So we specifically spoke about a what they call a spectrometer by the company called Aware, and what they do really is that they have this special powder.

Von N. Ruzive: 23:34

It's like a magic dust that they put into a the fibers, just you know, in the production or for a fabric, and that is usually done by a fabric mill that is associated with this company. So in this case, that's where you are now. A brand who is working with that fabric mill is able to know that this is really a sustainable fabric. They know exactly the way that it has been created, and it is then attached to the blockchain. So, in this case, this digital passport that you get right at the end of that whole process is pretty much just spectrometer that you would have scanned onto the final garment. That then kind of shows you this timeline reel of how it actually got, from start to finish pretty much. So it might sound a little confusing at the moment, but this, basically, just what you can take away is that this little powder is the reason why you can detect that this fabric is made by this certified sustainable fabric mill that is associated with Aware, and that is how you get that digital passport.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 24:49

On the note of confusion, the book is filled with a lot of images and diagrams, so hopefully what Vona has just talked about will be less confusing once you see the images in the book, and I recommend, yes, buying the printed version, just because everything looks nicer in printed versions.

Von N. Ruzive: 25:10

Basically, you have to buy what we're talking about. That way it won't be jibberish.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 25:14

Exactly so. The second half of the book is all about the downstream phase of fashion, so chapter four is called marketing beyond physical realities. I know that Vona, I think part of the writing process. Maybe this was maybe the side that we found more fun, shall we say, in terms of writing, just because it is so literal. There's just so much to talk about. There's already a lot out there as well, and it's a lot easier to understand. We talk a lot there about augmented reality, in chapter four, for example. I know that you tried out some technologies for chapter four and you can actually see photos of Vona trying to on various digital garments volume filters inside the book. What was your favorite there?

Von N. Ruzive: 25:57

It's quite difficult because I like the different technologies for different reasons, but I think what I really enjoyed was what I did with my own brand, which was the augmented reality captures, and that was pretty much. It was nice seeing, actually, just the process of how that is actually made, but also just seeing how you can really immerse yourself on your own phone is really interesting. So, again, you'll need to buy the book to have a look at that, or you can also just go on my website, but really what that is about is how you can take this image of a physical garment that already exists. So this is where we start kind of comparing the different technologies all together, because earlier we spoke about how you have to create a digital garment from scratch, maybe with patterns or maybe with AI, but now we've actually moved on specifically to something that already exists, a physical garment that's already been made, and now you're capturing that, putting it back into digital, and what we're doing there is that we're going to have a camera on your phone, obviously, that is activated, and you're able to use those as just like you would with any filters on Instagram, snapchat, etc.

Von N. Ruzive: 27:06

But the difference with this one is that it is really about the promotion of the garments. You're able to look into them in more detail. We're able to interact with the customers more and Elena, who was my main point of contact at Capacity, which was the company I partnered with, her point was really this is not about just trying to sell the items, but actually also just engagement. That time that the customer is spending looking at these items is just as important as also all the other technologies and all the other reasons that they exist as well.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 27:45

So yeah, and I know you tried some AR as well- I did, I think to that point, though, with your brand, specifically where it is dealing with adaptive fashion and you have to be able to understand how to get in and out of the garment, how the zips unzip, shall we say, because I remember one of the ones that you did. It shows the person or the viewer how to unzip at the shoulder. I think it was, and I think, just obviously a static image. You would never be able to show that at all.

Von N. Ruzive: 28:15

Oh, yeah, exactly, I think I'm glad you touched up on that point, because that's again something that Elena was talking about.

Von N. Ruzive: 28:21

When you compare that time that's being spent, the customer is able to really look into those details. Normally, fine, on some websites or some brands, you have an image or video of what a feature like that may be like, but here you get to kind of control it because at the top of your own fingers, kind of scrolling, you actually are maneuvering that model that's there. So in this case, you're able to then really get into it as if you're kind of in the store as well. So it's really just trying to mirror what you can get in real life in a digital world as much as possible, and that's almost as close as you can get. Obviously, we have VR, but that's now a completely different thing, because that's now you're not just you're just not going to get the same thing, and not everyone has a virtual reality. Well, oculus Quest at home, but at least with AR. That's one of the reasons why it's my favorites, because it's super accessible as well for everyone to be able to see.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 29:26

Yeah, and obviously there we talk about case study. That has a useful case study and you've been able to implement One of the things that I liked. In chapter four, we have this side of perspective from Matthew Drinkwater, who is the head of the fashion innovation agency, part of LCF in London, and he talks about how to build immersive brand experiences and virtual worlds. And I just remember sitting down with him during the interviews and he was going yeah, when we first started, like 10 years ago, brand strickled so much to get the heads around. How do you build a visual virtual world? And it's not necessarily that easy either Technically. You can't just click a button and then your outcomes of virtual world and I think that's very interesting as well to understand what are the challenges of, for example, doing something like capacity or it could be another piece of AR technology. But what he does do is that we are going to be experiencing more virtual worlds because brands see that it is engaging with, because, as you were saying, the engagement is just different and we're going to see more virtual worlds coming to life, I think, in 2024.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 30:44

One of the notions that we talk about in the book is multiverse marketing and it's about how you connect all of these different virtual worlds as a brand. Either it's shoppable or not shoppable, but it's allowing you to engage with the brand in a certain way, which I think is going to be more prevalent, because customers don't necessarily just want to be scrolling and scrolling on product display pages. They want to engage with brands in a different way, and especially some of those customers that do spend all day on their telephones. It's just a new way of engaging. I think that's one of my favorite things that we talk about inside the book.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 31:30

Another favorite moment in the book as well is when we interview Jonathan Chippendale from Hellishian, who is a digital agency based in London, and how he talks about when he did the John Hill show fashion show the viewer sat next to him, was quietly weeping because she found the whole experience so beautiful, the virtual world that was creative, and I think, even though we are talking about technology, that just means to an end, to make the feel the viewer or the audience or the customer feel something, and the fact that how she remembers that moment so vividly in the work that he was doing shows that fashion can have a huge impact in anyone's life, at a psychological level as well, Obviously from your perspective, on your doing at a physical level with adaptive fashion, but I imagine that has effect on them psychologically as well, your customers.

Von N. Ruzive: 32:32

Yeah, yeah, most definitely Really with that market is individuals with disabilities, who are not normally catered for in the industry, and in this case we mean, obviously, garments that are super uncomfortable for someone who's in a wheelchair all day, for example, or if someone has a missing limb and they don't use a prosthetic limb, then obviously they don't need the full length of a trouser or the sleeve. So in this case, it's about how can, then, this technology also cater to them in a way that can hopefully complement the clothing in this case? So in this case, the clothing can be adapted to those different abilities. So can the technology marry with that design in order to showcase a full scope of what's possible?

Von N. Ruzive: 33:29

And this is actually one of the things that we do talk about in the conclusion, about, really, we need to just make all this technology make sense with today's day in terms of inclusivity as well, and that obviously comes with the physical technology as well, not just the AI, but one of the things that we do speak about is obviously, like body scanners, for example.

Von N. Ruzive: 33:53

How can those things also be in a position where they can accommodate these different abilities, because at the moment, there is a standard way of maybe standing in order to have this full scan around you for an abled body person, but if someone is sitting in a wheelchair, they might not be able to get their measurements, not even might not. They won't be able to get their measurements actually, because the technology is just not designed for that. So how can we really move past that? So we are also making that innovation a lot more purposeful as well. Not just, hey, we have this shiny technology that leads us really to the next chapter about, or the final chapter before the conclusion, where we are focusing on the retail experiences and it's really smart retail and the stores of the future. That's what we've named that. I don't know if you have kind of a favorite moment on that chapter specifically.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 35:03

For me, it goes back to before I had Beyond4, to Dandelab, and we were looking at stores of the future with that specific business. It just brings you back to those days where everyone was talking about retail tech, 2013, 2014,. Retail tech was very much at the forefront, so it was very nice to revisit that. For anyone that is listening to the audio version of this not the video version, you can just like sense. I can sense Ron's passion specifically. You can just tell, specifically with the adaptive fashion element. That's like one of your passions, so you need to like see Ron's passion for that point.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 35:40

But going back to the retail side of things, that whole notion of fits is something that I hear about Pretty much every week. Whenever we meet a startup or a founder, everybody wants to try to address fit issues. Then, theoretically, you should reduce return rates as well if products fit you properly when you're doing online shopping. What we say in the book, though, is that it's still incredibly difficult to solve as a challenge for the fashion industry, but there are some very good solutions out there at the moment. We talk about treaties in the book. We talk about shoe fitter. In the book for the footwear side of things, we talk about haneath as well and fit match with renas brand, fenty and another. You interviewed haneath there for that specific case study. But there's just so much happening that I think that notion of fit is very important. And going back to your point earlier, you know all of our bodies are just different. So why are brands making clothing to such standard sizes all the time that just don't fit all of these different body types?

Von N. Ruzive: 36:50

I completely agree. I think, um, that's one thing that is still very backward or very traditional and conventional about the fashion industry that I'm not sure if we're ever going to see change in terms of a very mainstream scope. Um, but obviously some brands, like mine, but also some others, are doing, you know, made to measure or made to order, etc. Um, but that doesn't completely eradicate the problem of this standardization that still exists in fashion, which, uh, you know, if we're talking, we spoke about, um, disability and able-bodied, but then even if you're looking at just able-bodied, like you said, we're all very different, so surely we should have something a little bit more.

Von N. Ruzive: 37:33

You know, we should have pushed at some point by now, um, but maybe this technology could be the start of that, because, like what we're saying with um, all the um fit tech that you've just mentioned there, that they could actually be the start of that, because the idea is that they give you these measurements or give the. It's like a whole database now of measurements from customers that can be made available to these brands, so now they can also see, you know, their average customer size and maybe do something with that. You know, um, there are many solutions that can come from this. But really I think we have to go back to that idea of mindset of the brands, but we also have to be realistic, I guess, because, um, it can be expensive trying to for a brand trying to accommodate all the customers um that are different, even the mainstream brands. It's it's quite a task, but they just have to be willing because there's a lot of um potential, especially with this technology absolutely, and on that key word, I guess, of willing.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 38:38

Our final chapter, chapter six, the conclusion chapter, is called minimum effort, maximum output. We've got a lot of effort into this book. Officially, there'll be a lot of output for our readers. Um, in in this conclusion, we do round up everything that we have talked about in the fashion value chain, and then, of course, all of the technologies as well. What do you think should be the key takeaway for our readers?

Von N. Ruzive: 39:03

well, I think, uh, one of the interesting things that we did do there is just rounding up, you know, what we think is really the future. Like we, we've basically listed all this technologies and different ways of using them throughout the book and now at the end we are really just talking about, okay, fantastic, but these are the ones we do really believe in, um, and they're not any different from actually what we have written before. That it's really just looking at the technologies in the different scenarios and pinpointing those. So I'll let you guys take the book and and read that for yourselves, but really, I think that's one of the main takeaways that, yes, we have all this scope of different technologies, but some of them are a little bit more like must-haves compared to some that are just nice to have.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 39:52

Basically, we started the book with a question. We finished the book with a question, which is what happens next? I guess that's the question for our listeners. What happens next is you buy the book? I guess shameless. Plug, a plug for the plug for the book. Yeah, I completely agree with everything that you said there. One of the key phrases that we also put in chapter six is that relevancy is real and obviously during the COVID pandemic year we did see a lot of fashion brands go bankrupt because they were not able to keep that competitive advantage, and technology is one way of being able to keep up to speed with your customers, with the general market and so forth. So yeah, so there you have it. That is the book fashion tech applied Vaughn. How do they buy it?

Von N. Ruzive: 40:42

so, guys, it is available on your amazon and many other platform, but we will send a link or put the link on the description of this podcast and, yeah, you can purchase it there. We do have some discount codes for you, so don't you worry about that. But you only see that if you go into the description box. And yeah, you can also just reach out to us as well. Tell us your thoughts about the book on LinkedIn. We're gonna be talking about this a lot on there, but even Instagram, tiktok, whatever it is- how big is the discount?

Von N. Ruzive: 41:16

I think a lot of people want to know that, vaughn yes, so we do have actually 20% off, so you will have a very nice chunk. Take it away just for listening to this podcast and being able to get into the description to get that discount code thank you so much for your time, vaughn.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 41:37

It's great to have you back on a show talking with me again yeah, yeah, yeah it's.

Von N. Ruzive: 41:42

It's been a while that we we we've been on a show together, but it has been really fun and really just talking about something that we've really put our hearts into yeah, blood sweat and tears into this book for the last 18 months exactly. But honestly, it's here, guys, if in case for those watching this is it, we finally have it. But yeah, no, honestly. I remember getting this through the post and I was just like, oh my gosh, yeah, it's quite nice.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 42:13

When you get the physical copy and it's there in your house, you're like oh, this is what Vaughn and I have been laboring over the last year and a half over, but it's is very nice. What is one word that you would use to describe the journey of writing the book Vaughn?

Von N. Ruzive: 42:30

definitely tiresome, but not necessarily in a bad way, because I know that sounds quite negative, but it is tiring to write a book. I've heard even other authors talk about that journey, that at the beginning it could be like yeah, and then at some point it just never ends. But no, but once it, once it is there, it's super rewarding, like it's and and and. I think what we have written we're super happy with as well.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 42:59

I think that's also what just just really just makes this whole journey just fantastic yeah, and going through that, what it was, your words, all of that editing process with how well, how many editors did we have like four editors that we had working with us my word would be for me it's rewarding to be able to put down into paper all of the work that you and I have been doing over the the last few years would be my word, I think.

Von N. Ruzive: 43:28

But yes, tiring as well, it's a word I would agree with, because you just have to push through it even if you don't feel like writing exactly no, but I'm so glad we did it honestly because it, like you said, it really just captured all of it, all of what we've been doing really. So, yeah, so enjoy the reading, guys.