Speaking Sessions
Speaking Sessions
ENHANCE Your COMMUNICATION and ENGAGEMENT Skills with Emily Aborn
Unlock the secrets of captivating communication with Emily Aborn, a seasoned content copywriter, speaker, and podcast host. In this episode, Emily shares insights from her entrepreneurial journey, highlighting the power of marketing and content creation in keeping your audience engaged—whether through video content or dynamic public speaking.
Emily dives into the art of capturing authentic personality in both speech and writing, explaining how listening to someone's voice can reveal their true style. She emphasizes the importance of video and audio content in building genuine connections through storytelling, gestures, and body language. Learn how to strengthen your communication skills by integrating video, refining your copywriting, and leveraging tools like Otter AI for idea organization. Tune in for actionable tips on enhancing your public speaking and writing to connect more deeply with your audience.
NOTABLE QUOTES
"I am a people person, but I do it in small doses… so that I can continue to be a people person. – Emily
"I want to help you find your voice and bring that out." – Emily
"If you want your clients to get to know, like, and trust you, do more videos." – Philip
"Yes, do more video, do more speaking." – Emily
"It's actually harder to write less than it is to write more." – Emily
"With speaking, there's not necessarily a right or wrong way. You have to find what's comfortable for you and the way you do it could even change depending on the audience." – Philip
“Sharing these stories helps people relate with you, relate with what you're talking about.’" – Philip
"If you use surveys or QR codes where you're directing people to pull out their phone, you have to think through that process and bring them right back in." – Emily
"[Avoid] those pieces of our language that just confuse people and don't explain anything." – Emily
"Have one point for every single thing that you are creating." – Emily
RESOURCES
Emily
Website: https://emilyaborn.com
Content with Character Podcast: https://contentwithcharacter.buzzsprout.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilyaborn
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/emily.catherinegrace
Philip
Digital Course: https://www.speakingsessions.com/digital-course
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamphilipsessions/?hl=en
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@philipsessions
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philip-sessions-b2986563/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/therealphilipsessions
What's going on, guys? Welcome back to another episode of the Speaking Sessions podcast. I've got Emilia Bourne here and she is a content copywriter, speaker and podcast host. She's been an entrepreneur for over a decade and operated a brick and mortar as well as two online businesses. She's collaborated with thousands of individuals in over 100 countries. As a copywriter, she guides people to growing, impactful, community and relationship-based businesses. For fun, she enjoys word games, reading, listening to podcasts and hiking with her husband, jason and their dog, clyde, as well as helping men understand how to actually communicate, because she wants to be a feminist. No, I'm just kidding with you. I told her I was going to give her a hard time because we joked about that offline, but no, I'm excited to have you on the show, emily, and we're going to talk about how to keep an audience engaged the whole time, unlike most speakers who can't do that. But welcome to the show, emily. So glad to have you here.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me and I'm glad you corrected yourself and we didn't lose them already, right away, yeah.
Speaker 1:They heard feminists.
Speaker 2:They're like I'm out they heard a woman teaching men how to communicate and they said I'm out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, well, I don't know. Some of us men do need to learn how to do that. I always joke and say to my wife like if you really want me to understand something, hit me over the head with two by four Almost figure, not just figuratively, but literally as well, because this head's pretty dense and it's got a couple of welts not necessarily from her, I'm not saying that, but it's got some welts there because being told what to do a little bit too directly because I just didn't get it the first time. But I'm glad to have you here and excited to talk to you, taking your copywriting background, speaking background, as well as running a few businesses, both online and in person, and dissecting all your knowledge on how we can communicate better and, more specifically, being able to help people keep others engaged when it comes to your video content, when it comes to speaking on stage and all of that. So talk to us first about who Emily is. How did you come about being this copywriter, speaker, having businesses in person, online, all that stuff. That's so many things. So talk to us about that.
Speaker 1:Who is Emily?
Speaker 2:Okay, I'll make this part nice, short and sweet. So I've always, since I was a little kid, I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I was the kid that had not just the lemonade stands, but I also invented businesses. So like a gopher service for all my neighbors and we have like trampoline shows and like charge people to come see them, and I was like devising an entire day camp for my neighborhood, you know. So it was stuff like that and I sold like seashells and rocks and called them antiques. So I was oh, I always had that and, like every job I've ever worked in, I brought that entrepreneurial spirit with me, which was great for them, but not for me being able to really follow the dream of starting my own business.
Speaker 2:So finally, in 2014, my husband and I opened a brick and mortar together. It was a little random. We sold non-toxic bedding and mattresses. I had worked for somebody previously down south and seen the back end of their business model. I knew it was successful. It just made sense on paper. Really don't like being trapped inside a store all day, every day, and like I am a people person, but I do it in like small doses kind of, so that I can continue to be a people person. So I had to kind of shift some things for myself and that's really what got me into like really focusing on the marketing and copywriting and content for myself and also for other people. It's something that I had been doing all along in like every career. If I looked back at what I, what I had like gone through in my life and I just kind of like put all the breadcrumb pieces together and here I am.
Speaker 1:Wow, and I had to go back a little personal tangent there. You talk about, in small doses, being a people person. That when my sister, when we were growing up, she would have friends over and in the middle of like the sleepover she would have to go be by herself because she couldn't stand being around somebody for that long. Like she's a lovely person to be around, but it was just funny Like, and my mom would be like that had to tell him like, yeah, she just needs some time to herself, She'll be back in a minute, and it's like, but we're sleeping over at your house. So I couldn't help but think about that.
Speaker 1:So at least you know yourself, that's the important thing knowing how much you can actually be a people person and go recharge and everything like that. And that's a lot of us. There's days where I'm like that Most days not especially if you ask my wife but we're all like that where we need to go recharge and everything, my wife. But we're all like that where we need to go recharge and everything. But talk to us about this copywriting thing. It's very interesting and it sounds like you're very self-aware of yourself and then realize as well like, hey, I don't want to be stuck inside this store, I wanted to get into copywriting and I think that's one of those skills that you had to really just do like learn by doing, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Of course you can read books, all that stuff, but it really comes down to that trial and error. So talk to us about that, because I really want us to dive into this. I think it will translate very well into speaking and communication.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think a lot of it came from just seeing things that I didn't think were written well, which, like I kind of started with like doing content, so like lots of social media, lots of blogs, lots of emails, that kind of thing, which are all like content and copy it kind of goes. You know they the two are blurry lines, but they are lines, um. So I started in that and like I just saw a lot of things that I wanted to do better, in that I wanted to make the person on the other side feel more seen and feel more heard, and a lot of copy, a lot of content falls short of that, which is, in my opinion, some of the stuff that distracts us and that doesn't keep us engaged and that doesn't keep us interested.
Speaker 2:Same with speaking Like. That's why, at the beginning, it was important for me to know who are we actually speaking to, because that's part of keeping them engaged is like knowing who I'm talking to. So that's sort of like what I just kind of like really leaned into and I went a couple, you know, I tried looking at a couple of different models of how to do that and really I think you're a hundred percent right when you said you just have to learn by doing like you just have to learn what works.
Speaker 2:uh, I, I think one of my strengths is like my client's voice. So I'm kind of like a chameleon when I'm working for them, in that I can find their voice and it's not my voice. There are a lot of copywriters that have a very, uh, definitive way of writing and it their voice, but I'm kind of more of a person who's like no, I want to help you find your voice and bring that out. You know. So it's not actually about me, it's about who they are and who I'm talking to on the other side, and that, to me, is like that's pillar number one of how you keep people engaged is you show your personality, but you also meet them like right where they're at, like you make them feel really seen, heard, understood and valued.
Speaker 1:So just kind of a random side note here, just thinking about this how, if we are trying to get into being a copywriter or we want to mimic a speaker, let's just say Steve Jobs. To mimic a speaker, let's just say Steve Jobs, just to name a name. If I want to make my style more like Steve Jobs, how would I go about doing that? Because that sounds like a lot like what you're doing with the copywriting. Essentially, you're looking at, I'm sure, old stuff that they've written before and then you're starting to model and mold the way that you write based on how they've written. So it'd be kind of the same thing with speaking, I would think. Do you have any tips on that? How we could start to model after somebody? Because, oh, I like the way that Steve Jobs presents this way, or I like the way that Les Brown presents on this thing and I want to model after that. How could we as speakers go about doing that?
Speaker 2:I think with speaking, you 100% hit the nail on the head that it's like listening to them and hearing maybe some of the things that you do find unique. So maybe it's a way that they kind of use humor in how they speak, Maybe it's the way that they structure how they speak, Maybe it's in the intonations of their voice or the energy they bring right. So there's all different things you might be kind of looking at. With writing, this will maybe surprise you a little bit. A lot of people don't actually write with their personality. They write how they think they're supposed to write, or they write for that grammar teacher back in fifth grade that had the red line.
Speaker 2:So a lot of people I don't actually learn their voice through what they've already written, because they didn't put their voice in what they wrote. I have to get on a call with them. I have to ask them lots of questions. I have to listen to them. If they have a podcast, I will listen to their podcast and actually the way we met was on Podmatch and I don't reach out to a podcaster until I've heard their voice and I know that like, okay, we're going to be a good fit, you know.
Speaker 1:So it's the same kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it worked. So I really do take time to like listen to my clients actual words, not the words they think they use, not the overused jargon which we'll get into a little bit, but like the words they really, really use.
Speaker 1:That's, that's how I found their voice and I think we can do that in listening to speakers as well should do more videos because, just like you as a copywriter, can get to know somebody better by hearing them, by seeing them, and you're not doing it by what they've written, because they're probably writing different, like you said, than the way that they actually speak. So if you want your clients to get to know, like and trust you, do more videos, don't just do content. It's easy to go and put a one word or not one word, well, I guess one word as well but one sentence, copy there, if you will, or piece of content just saying a motivational quote or something, or a picture of you with some paragraphs that describes something that happened to you in your business, or whatever. But doing that video will let people actually really get to know you and your personality.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's exactly something I wanted to bring up is just like how much of a personal connection you make when you're speaking or podcasting or doing video. I think that that, plus like the fact that you have more leg room right to use storytelling and to use gestures and to like let people see your body language, I think all of those things are something that we don't get in writing. Like writing is super powerful in its own way. So I'm not at all dismissing it, trust me. It is my career. But I just think that there is something about that voice and that's one thing I love about my own podcast is getting to like. I tell people in my podcast I'm like I feel like we're having a cup of coffee right now and that's how I want it to feel, like we're just sitting down having a conversation, connecting, and people will tell me that all the time about my show. So that's kind of what we want people to experience from us in in video. So, yes, do more video, do more speaking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's a huge compliment to have somebody say it just feels like we're we're having a natural conversation just sitting out for a coffee and stuff like that. Oftentimes podcasts are just too, and sometimes I feel like that with my own, like it depends on the guests. Like there's a lot of good energy here, but some guests I'm like, oh man, I'm like I'm trying to pull things out, like, come on, let's, let's try to have a little fun with this. Like you and I have some good banter back and forth.
Speaker 1:But going back to the copywriting here, I feel like as a as somebody who can speak, or if you can write better your copy, it'll make you a better speaker Like you can be a good speaker but not a good writer, and you could be a good writer not necessarily a good speaker but I think as you learn how to, on paper, put your thoughts down and make it a more engaging thought process, I feel like that will make you a better speaker. I know for sure it'll make you a better communicator, because it's a lot easier to communicate the context and everything by speaking it out versus typing it all out, let's say, like in a corporate email or something like that. Is that how you feel and why? Or what would you say for us to help us get better at speaking by using I'll call it copywriting to get better at both. Really.
Speaker 2:It is how I feel, but I'm a writer like I process through writing, so I'll tell you some benefits on that and then I'll tell you how I could see an alternative perspective. So when I need to figure out what I think about something, let's say, am I letting this thing in my life go? I'm part of this network, am I going to stay part of this network or let it go? I have to write out like how I feel. You know, I kind of have to like process it all in writing and then I can put some like clarity into my thoughts about around it. When clients come to me, often they just kind of like verbal dump at me and I put the structure in place Like I'm like okay, I know how to arrange this so that it's like structured. That said, a lot of people are verbal processors and so I think that writing, like writing to actually process their thoughts and understand their frameworks and their feelings, and like their structure, is actually quite hard for them. So if that's you and that is something you bump into a lot I love tools like.
Speaker 2:I'm just going to use Otter AI because it's a really easy one, but it's a transcription tool, so basically you take your audio or you take your video and you put it into the transcription tool. And you can ask Otter you can ask these tools or AI tools to help you put an outline together. You can ask it to help you pull out the main points. You can ask it to help you turn it into like a blog or an article or something else. So if that's the way that you process best, you have to know that about yourself a little bit and then use those things to your advantage. So for me, I'm always like, if I do a presentation or podcast, I always start with writing things out. That's the way my brain works. But other people, somehow people can just show up on their solo cast and just talk, talk, talk, and I don't understand that. I have an outline, I have bullet points. I'm like I know exactly what I want to talk about.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, my answer is yes and yes, and those are always the best answers, for sure. Speaking of solo episodes, sometimes that it depends on the subject. For me, I do feel that the episode is better when I do have some bullet points with it. But there's times where I've got this idea, something I want to talk about, and I can just kind of figure out along the way what it is that I want to talk about and I can just kind of figure out along the way what it is that I want to share about. And typically the episodes are shorter when I'm winging it versus when I'm like, okay, here's the main subject and here's like three bullet points. And especially if I started like what are some examples that I can share of that, or stories, I do notice that it is obviously more organized as far as the episode goes, but then there's a lot more depth to that solo episode also. So I think that's a it's a great way to do that and something that we should practice to do, uh for sure, especially when it comes to speaking, doing episodes like that.
Speaker 1:And, as you were talking about this, I had a friend, she. She and I are reading a book called smart brevity together. I don't know if you've heard of that book or not. I just pulled it up. It is Jim Vendhei, mike Allen and Roy Schwartz that authored that. I'm not too far into it, but I couldn't help but think about some of this. In a nutshell, what I've read so far which is only about 50 pages into the book, so not too far into it they talk about, essentially, people are writing too much now. They just put so much on paper because they feel like if I put more information out there, that it's going to be better, that people are going to understand more. And when in fact it's actually goes the opposite, because they talk about that, people will read, like maybe the first couple of sentences and they move on.
Speaker 1:And I think they said something about in 15 milliseconds somebody, when they go to a website, go to a page, go see a post on social media, in 15 milliseconds they have decided whether they will continue to look at that post, that blog, whatever it is, or move on. And so there's obviously other things behind that that that come into play to make it where you can capture that attention. But when it came to like emails and everything and it talks about social media posts as well it talked about hey, kind of have somewhat somewhat of a summary, if you will, or very high level. Here's kind of what you're going to learn, and then like why is this important? And then finally start to go into the details on that. That way you can at least capture a lot of people to get the important stuff and then, if they want more details, they can read after. That Is that kind of how you would go after copywriting as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm. I like always say people are like, oh, just, I just need one little paragraph whipped up, and I'm like it's actually harder to write less than it is to write more, and I really stand by that. So I'm working with a lot of clients and just being like less, less, less, less, less on your website, and I think that people do look for those headlines. So like, how can we make the headlines pull you into what's coming next? And I think the same about speaking.
Speaker 2:And I think to your point of like, when you have a structure you said you like have more examples, and I think that helps people to stay engaged Like when you have a direction and a structure and a organizational system in place and you're using headlines in your, even in your speaking um, to guide people through. It brings their attention back, because we, even when we're listening to something, our attention may or may not be filtered right, so like we may be listening while cleaning the house or listening while doing the dishes, or listening while doing something else. So even then it's important to like remind people what they're listening to, why they're listening to it, why this next part pertains to them, and so I love that you brought that in as well, because I think that's another way to keep people engaged.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so let's, let's dive into this now. Now, because this is where I really wanted us to go, but I was loving the copywriting stuff because I definitely could get better at that myself, so it was interesting to hear from your perspective the professional on here about that. But talk to us about that on the speaking side how we can start to create more of that engagement, because I feel like it makes more sense. When it comes to a social media post, you want to have those stories, keep people engaged, educate them all these good things. But when it comes to speaking, you're not necessarily just directly seeing that, so it's a lot harder to understand the nuances behind that. So talk to us about how you go about making sure that you're keeping people engaged in your speeches as you're doing them.
Speaker 2:Okay. So to start, when I'm like really thinking about it, I first and foremost always want to know who I'm talking to and why this matters to them. So whether I'm giving a workshop or I'm doing this podcast with you, I want to know that we're talking to small business owners. I want to know that I'm talking to entrepreneurs Like I want to know who I'm talking to.
Speaker 1:Um, and I think, why is that just? Just so we can know about that too.
Speaker 2:Two reasons One, because I'm going to be able to use relevant examples to them. And two, I think that the more specific you can get with, like, even your humor and, uh, how you relate to the people in the audience, like you'll be able to use your own personal stories that are just way more specific and it clicks with people, like we all want to feel, like the person in front of us is somebody like us, right? So, using those personal examples and stories. Number two, I kind of think of like okay, where are we starting? And then like what do I want as the end result? So it's like a like whatever I'm going to be sharing, it's going to be a journey. So how can I map out that journey? And like, I know that you know way more about this than I do, but there's like different structures you can kind of use in your speaking. They're super basic and easy. But like one example would be like problem, uh, solution, benefit, right, so I might map out my, my speaking with that like, let's start with the Like. One example would be like problem, solution, benefit, right. So I might map out my speaking with that Like let's start with the problem, then I'll give you the solution, then I'll talk to you about how it benefits you. And there's a whole bunch, so I'm not going to go through them all.
Speaker 2:One I love is like sharing a point, giving an example and then like applying it to them. So that's like probably my favorite one, because I'm like okay, I'm going to give you the point and I can talk a little bit around the point, give you an example of it and then also apply it to you. And that's where I love knowing who I'm talking to, because you can be specific in the example that you give. And then I think the other thing is like and again, I'm sure you know more about this but like using a couple of different types of examples. So you have to know yourself and know like do I always fall into giving an example in one type of way? So am I always giving a client example? Am I always giving an example for my personal life? Am I always giving an analogy as an example? Right? So like mixing up the different types of examples that you do so that more people in the room or on the other side of your AirPods are staying engaged with you.
Speaker 1:I like those and those are great examples right there and really just goes in and you'll be able to say this from the copywriting side, that there's not a right or wrong way necessarily of doing copywriting, and same thing with speaking. There's not necessarily a right or wrong way. You have to find what's comfortable for you and the way you do it could even change depending on the audience, could even change depending on the audience. I think about adults that we hope have a little bit more of an attention span and they're going to pay more attention or at least be more respectful and sit in their seats versus elementary students. They're probably not going to want to sit in their seats. They're probably going to want to get up. They're going to be distracted very easily. So the way you're going to deliver that close to the same message. It's never going to be the same message.
Speaker 1:Those are very different audiences, but you're going to deliver it in a different way as well because you want to make sure if you're really engaging the kids, to keep them focused and paying attention versus the adults. So yeah, there's no right or wrong way per se to do it, but there's definitely better ways, obviously. I mean the first and foremost thing is just doing it, just getting started for sure, agreed. So talk to us about your speaking journey and would love to hear kind of the things that you talk about, and we'll kind of dissect some of that as well, because I would love to kind of see how you're taking this copywriting and uh, and talking about that on stage and everything.
Speaker 2:Um, so I do a lot of like local workshops that are like very hands-on and interactive. I will definitely, like I've done, a few conferences where I'll speak in front of a room full of like 25 or 30 people and it's a little bit obviously sorry, not 25 or 30, like 100 people, I'm talking, the small workshops were 25, 30. But sometimes you'll speak in front of a larger group and it's less interactive, right. And so that's when I like some of those other tools, like the structure, and also using like previewing and summarizing like you and I did that at the beginning we were like here's a preview of what you're going to get, and then you probably, in your own way, have a way of like summarizing everything that we do. So that's where you can kind of see the difference of like larger groups versus smaller groups, like you may not need to do that in a smaller group because you're having more of like an interactive style. I do a lot of like virtual workshops, which this is where I feel like you almost can't control distractions sometimes in virtual workshops. So I'm trying to kind of really focus a little bit more on the in-person stuff, because there's just something that I get from the person to person connection and like interacting with all of the people in the room. That is more valuable, both for me and the people that I'm working with. Just for just for me and, like you said, there's no right or wrong way. Just for me. And, like you said, there's no right or wrong way. So that's kind of where I am now and where I started is funny. So I worked for a chiropractor.
Speaker 2:I started with her right out of college. I was a very nervous speaker in college, I think in a communications class I had to give my first speech and I stood up and my face was so red and I was so nervous I had to sit down. I couldn't do it and then at the end I had to like go back and give the speech to the professor. Like just me, because I was like just too, I couldn't do it. And I had that in my mind, like, oh, I'm never going to be able to speak because I'm just way too scared and shy of doing it.
Speaker 2:In 2008, I took this. I started doing Toastmasters and I was like, oh my gosh, I love this. Now, what I did in Toastmasters was definitely different from how I do things now. I basically just read off the paper and they were always like okay, emily, you need to get away from your notes, you need to stop reading off the paper. So now I love using notes as an outline, because notes can in and of themselves be distracting for people. Like if you, if they can tell you're just reading off of notes, people, people will be distracted or tune out or zone out. So I hope I answered your question. I kind of gave you like five answers. No, no, you're perfect.
Speaker 1:I love the stories, but that was part of it too, because it was more engaging rather than just answering the question. And me being an engineer, it's hard for me sometimes like, okay, just answer the question and I'm like, okay, hold on, hold on, you got to give a little bit more detail, you got to get them a little bit excited. Let's share a story here and everything. Of course, it's gotten better over time, but I like that you shared these stories and some of that and then shared a little bit about you and we. The word vulnerability comes out there, but that's relatable.
Speaker 1:And actually, as you, you mentioned that I thought about the time I took a speech class. I ran it. I didn't, I didn't even sign up for it in high school, but I got put in it for some reason as a freshman talking to seniors and, yeah, I was nervous, as could be as well, be as well, because here are all these bigger guys that have gone through puberty and I don't know if I was through puberty yet or not, or just hitting it or what, but I definitely was not as far along in my mature life as them and everything. So it was just definitely a daunting thing. And then, of course, you mentioned Toastmasters. I've been in that too. I thought about that as well, which goes back to what we were talking about earlier Toastmasters I've been in that too. I thought about that as well, which goes back to what we were talking about earlier. Sharing these stories helps people relate with you, relate with what you're talking about, and then think about, oh yeah, could I do that myself? Or oh, that's something that I should do. Maybe they haven't tried Toastmasters and maybe they want to try it now because of your two stories the one where you were in speech class and horrified, and then Toastmasters, where you start to love it and you didn't go into the supportive environment of Toastmasters, but very supportive environment, and not that the classroom wasn't necessarily, but still just definitely different environments there. So, yeah, I appreciate all the insights there and, ironically, you shared these stories to get us engaged and drawn in to you and who you are and everything, and so give us some more tips on how we can really keep the audience engaged.
Speaker 1:I think that's something that is very difficult, especially for those of us that are more logical, thinking. We just want to tell the answer and move on. We don't want to give the fluff, so to speak, but it's an important thing. How do we get more people engaged, especially when that's not something we naturally want to do? I think as business owners, we're busy. Just get to the point. Tell me what it is. I don't need the fluff, but we do need that fluff, especially our audience when we're speaking on a stage, whether it's a podcast, an actual business conference workshop, whatever they need more of that fluff to be able to relate with that message.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think some of it is what we even talked about with writing too, and a lot of these things you learn by doing. You learn by being present and watching the faces of the people in the room. So I want to say how I even came up with this idea. I did four podcasts on it after this conference I went to because I was like, oh my gosh, so I'm sitting in this conference and I saw a couple of instances, but the most prominent one to me was a woman who stood up and started. She was speaking on, I think, being more authentic, or like helping your oh, I know being more authentic, or like helping your oh, I know, quelling your inner critic. And I'm like, ooh, sign me up right, like she is loud up there.
Speaker 2:So I'm in this workshop and most of the workshop was a sales pitch. The rest of the workshop was dancing around the point of how to overcome your inner critic, but never really getting to any specific point, and then telling us like how amazing, we're all going to feel, how to overcome your inner critic, but never really getting to any specific point. And then telling us, like how amazing we're all going to feel when we overcome our inner critic, but we never actually overcame our inner critic anywhere in the workshop. Lastly, this is what put the icing on the cake for me. She had us take out our phones, like she's like okay, I have about 15 more minutes to go, but I want everybody to take a survey right now. So we get out our phones, we like take a picture of this QR code. Which person next to me had to help, cause I'm like I have no idea what a QR code is.
Speaker 2:So, we're taking out our phones, we're doing the survey. I'm an overachiever. Survey took me about two seconds. I'm like okay, great Done. And then I'm sitting there and guess where I went. I went to Instagram, I went to my inbox, I went to Facebook and I was like checked out of the rest of the presentation, not even by my own choice, like I was just like oh, my phone's in my hand, I must scroll. So then I looked around the room because I caught myself. I'm like OK, emily, you like pull yourself back in. So I catch myself. I look around the room and everybody was still on their phones and she was still speaking and everybody was still looking at their phones. And I just thought to myself wow, like that was.
Speaker 2:Tip number one is, if you use surveys or QR codes or something where you're directing people to like pull out their phone or something, you have to think through that process and bring them right back in. So a way she could have easily done that is been like OK, now take a selfie of you and the person next to you and then put your phone away and come back. You know, like she could have directed us what to do after the survey so that we weren't all like lost in our inboxes responding to clients, you know. So that was like number one at that conference. And the other one I noticed was like people that have handouts and I just watch. Like handouts can be really amazing and beneficial, especially when they give you, the listener, a chance to like, write and participate like or you feel like you're participating through the handout right. Handouts can also be really really distracting because people can sit there and read the handout and turn the handout right. Handouts can also be really really distracting because people can sit there and read the handout and turn the handout over and do whatever they want to on the handout and not be paying attention to you.
Speaker 2:So I'm sure you've gone over a lot of these other kind of things of like putting too much words on the slide. The other one I really try to steer clear of is industry jargon. So like there are words as a copywriter I use all the time and I don't inflict those upon my clients, like I'm like they do not need to get into the weeds with me on this, you know. So just like avoiding those those pieces of our language that just confuse people and don't actually explain anything. Even overused words like overused words like authenticity and vulnerability. It's like can I find another way to say that? Because those words are so overused that they just kind of get lost. You know so kind of working on keeping some of that language out of our speaking.
Speaker 1:So many good points there. I never I haven't talked directly on that, but that makes so much sense with the phone part. I never thought about that. So now that's something I'm going to have to go back and do a video on and kind of talk through like how would I go about navigating that process and everything, and I like that. You gave that example there. It's a good thing. Hey, let's take a selfie real quick and then put it away. And I always said, like take a selfie when you're done.
Speaker 1:So I know you're done and go ahead and put your phone back in your pocket afterwards, like something like that, where it's still you're kind of leading that conversation or you're leading that group and everything Cause yeah. Then it's like, oh well, I've just got to do it to do what you want. And then you could tell you didn't like the whole sales part aspect of that lady either. So how did that make you? It sounds like, besides you doing some of your own content afterwards, were you already doing your workshops before that, or do you start doing them after that?
Speaker 2:No, I was doing them before that.
Speaker 2:And then I said, oh my gosh, these are like really valuable things to bring back, and especially in virtual settings. I had to look at like visuals and be like, okay, what, what do I really want to focus on in my visuals? Because I don't. That can, like I said, be a distraction point for people and if I'm sending handouts beforehand, like how am I making sure that those aren't distracting for people? So it was super helpful in what I was already doing and even as a podcaster, like I saw the value of like the previewing, the summary, summarizing the stories, the you know, structuring things in a certain way, and I was like, oh, there's so many good things I'm going to apply.
Speaker 2:Even when we say like, check out the show notes, a lot of people don't know exactly what the show notes are and or the show notes are a place they could totally get lost and like be doing that while they're listening to you and then miss half of what you're saying. Mention your show notes is actually very, very important. I will often say, like I am so, I'm so detailed in my show notes. So I'll often say like if there's anything you missed, it's in the show notes, and then I'll say it again at the end. But I try not to like constantly direct people to the show notes because I get lost in show notes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I know mine, mine get pretty lengthy as well. I try I try to keep it a little short, but yeah, there's, there's so much that you can put in the show notes for sure. So, yeah, and that's that's interesting with the workshops. I like that you, you took some of that back that you learned to put back into your workshops and everything. I thought maybe if you had started the workshop after this that you were like, hey, I'm not just going to be a selling in this workshop necessarily, and I find too often that people just stage is very, a very powerful place, but they want to use that as like, this is my platform just to pitch you on, this is my platform to sell the whole time. And really, if you're doing it well, if you're speaking well and giving that information out and actually helping some people for free, they're going to come and work with you anyways.
Speaker 1:And that was one of the things that I heard when you were talking about this lady.
Speaker 1:She talked about overcoming but never told you exactly how to.
Speaker 1:I didn't even go through it like, at least pick one person in the audience, especially with the smaller breakout room, to help them overcome.
Speaker 1:That it was just all about how you can overcome and how things are going to be so great, like, no, give the information away, because, at the end of the day, as speakers, as coaches, really any service we are giving the implementation, or that's what people are buying from us the actual implementation. They're not buying the information, but we act like we have to guard this information. We need to give it out, and would you agree, when it comes to especially social media content, when we're doing that copywriting, that we should be doing that as well, just giving it all out, just putting it all out there for people to learn about? How do we then, just like with speaking, where we make sure we give a clear takeaway, how can we and I'm going back to the copywriting side but how can we give that clear takeaway that like, hey, here's the action that we want people to do and have them be engaged their whole time in that post and then actually take action on that?
Speaker 2:Okay, two things. First, I'm with you. I think you can basically spoon feed somebody every single thing that you know and they are still going to hire you. And I've seen it time and time again I could give you access to everything I know and you're still going to pay me to do it for you, or you're still going to have me work alongside you because it feels overwhelming to you. So I'm not saying that's universal. If somebody ate up everything that we shared and they did not need us, that is fantastic, More power to them, and that's not your ideal client. So I'm with you on that. I think even when you're guesting as a podcast host, as a speaker, you are there to give value. I probably have the opposite problem, where I don't sell enough Like.
Speaker 2:I just am like okay the call to action is email me and I'll give you a free answer. So that's my own path. When it comes to making your content like a little more engaging or less distracting and I have to remind myself of this all the time because I'm actually not great at it it is to have one point for every single thing that you are creating. So, like every post has one purpose and one purpose only. I know you want to put all of those like thoughts in that one post and how they're all intertwined and they all relate. But like keep it unilaterally focused and it helps people stay focused on what they're reading and it just like is clear, it just makes a clear takeaway. Memorable post.
Speaker 2:Um, I I've had people send me posts that I'm like they'll think that they're pulling some specific thing out of it that's like relevant to me. They're like I thought of you. And they send me posts that I'm like they'll think that they're pulling some specific thing out of it that's like relevant to me. They're like I thought of you and they send me it and I'm reading it and I'm like just reading all the nuance in it and I'm like I don't see how it applied to me because it's so many different thoughts and then they'll, what they pulled out was like just some random sentence or word. You know it was like just some random sentence or word, you know. So, like you have to understand that when you're packing it full of thoughts, like people are getting 10 different messages and you can't really help which one they're getting.
Speaker 2:So I think, keeping it clear and focused on just like one thing, every single post I'm going to give you an example, because I like to tell stories and give examples. I had a photo today on my Instagram Sometimes I just post fun things it was my dog, halfway on his bed. He's like half his body is on the bed, half his body's on the hardwood floor because he's lazy and he didn't want to make it all the way to his bed. So I was like, oh, I should make this into a post about, like, the clients I'm working with today and how you know it's. I had all these ideas and I was like, no, emily, just one thing. So I just said like, happy Wednesday. You're halfway there. That was it One focus, and I can share about the client stuff and the other things I had on my mind in a separate post. So that's a tiny example. It's a silly example, but that's kind of what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that. I like that for sure. And and just to ask a follow-up question on this. So you're not, I get what you, I get what you're saying, but I just want to have some clarity. You're not saying like, hey, here's three ways to lose weight, and then listing those three like that, that's okay as well. Or we should just say one way to lose weight.
Speaker 2:No, I think that's fantastic. Don't say here's three ways to lose weight and then give like a blog for you know, under every single one of the ways, like, just keep it simple and tie it all back together.
Speaker 1:Gotcha Okay. And then one last thing. This will help solve a Facebook group argument that I saw a while back that it was funny. This guy he came into the group hadn't really posted anything and then blasted the group for being terrible about every is the kind of. The trend now is basically like every sentence you put a space between it because most people are reading on their phones, so it's easier to read, because it's not huge blocks of text. Well, he's like that's just the worst way to do it and everybody in this group they think this exact same way and they write this exact same way. I'm like what in the world? And so what is your suggestion on that? I know it's hard to say, but roughly speaking, what would you suggest for us as far as the readability side of looking at it on your phone, especially as we're posting content like literally every one sentence, like and we have a space between, or should we kind of chunk it a little bit more? Talk to us about that real quick from a copy. I do.
Speaker 2:I do sometimes like that style when you have something that you like, when you have a sentence that is meaningful or impactful and you really want it to stand out. And I also really don't like like walls of text. So I'm mostly with the. I think that the group is the one that spaces everything out. I'm mostly with the group on that. However, there are definitely exceptions to the rule and I think you can.
Speaker 2:I see people going over the top with it all the time, like uh, I think it's a lot of times when people are posing like a quote, unquote, unpopular opinion, they'll kind of do that style and it's like trying to, it's like trying too hard in a weird way. Like it's like they think like every line is a zinger and I'm reading it and I'm like this is not a, it's not an unpopular opinion, we all feel this way. And B? B, if you tell me every line is a zinger, I don't feel like every line is a zinger. So I'm I actually have seen books written like this and I'm like I can't do it. I can't do it. If your sentences are not more than three words long, it's really hard to keep my attention.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, and that's the thing, especially with mobile, like you gotta, yeah, there's not really one right way, but I was curious what your thoughts on that. And, of course, just made the joke about the group. I mean that was that was actually a real situation. Go figure with Facebook. But but, yeah, I'm more. Yeah, everybody was more on the side, like let's space it out, cause, yeah, if it's one just block a text like I'm gone, Because, yeah, if it's one just block a text like I'm gone, unless I really know you, you typically write really well.
Speaker 1:You got good stories in there. I'm not going to read all that, I'm just going to move on, wait till the next post or whatever and everything. But, emily, you know, we we talked a lot about the feminist movement here, about how men should talk better and everything. No, we, we talked about a lot of amazing things about how we can structure ourselves both on the copywriting side but the speaking side to be able to get better. But if people want to follow you and your dog and they're halfway through the week, where's the best place for them to follow you at to learn more about copywriting and all the things that you have going on?
Speaker 2:All right. Well, thank you so much for the conversation and the opportunity, and I think the easiest and best place to follow me since you're already listening to a podcast you love is my content with character podcast, and I do actually have one on speaking structures, so you might have some fun with that. And then, if you like, just connecting with people on like a more personal level, I have the most fun, I would say, on Instagram.
Speaker 1:Awesome, and we'll have that in the show notes as well. So now we're here at the end of the episode, you can focus in on the show notes at this point to be able to click on those links. We'll make sure to have all those there for you so you can follow Emily, because she's got some amazing content out there and obviously a great person. We had a great conversation here, emily. Thank you so much for coming on the show today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Philip, for having me.
