Episode 3: Breaking Out of the “Should” Box, featuring Yunetta Spring Smith

During this episode, I talk with Yunetta Spring Smith (she/her), LPC-MHSP, NCC about how to break out of the box of what we think a therapist “should” be and step into an authentic space for attunement, prosperity, and growth.  

As a Therapreneur (therapist/entrepreneur) Yunetta and Jennifer share their mindset shifts and practical tips that have empowered their success. 

TOPICS IN THIS EPISODE:

·       What’s it means to be a Therapreneur

·       How scarcity mindset limits our success

·       Ways fear-based thinking limits our creativity as a therapist

·       BIPOC clinicians – representation in training matters

·       The power of a supportive therapeutic community

·       Lies we tell ourselves about money – “helpers don’t receive”

·       There are many things you can do as a therapist without having your butt in the seat all the time

·       Practical step to take to combat burnout

·       Your presence alone has power

OFFERS & PERKS:

·       EMDR Certification Consultations 10% 20-hour package

·       Join BIPOC EMDR Directory

·       E-Workbook: Take The Struggle Out of Self-Care: 6 Weeks to Create Your Self-Care Strategy

HELPFUL LINKS:

·       Yunetta’s website

·       Jennifer Agee coaching page

·       Counseling Community Facebook community

·       Counseling Community Instagram

·       Alaskan Cruise: Experiential Therapeutic Intervention Training for Therapists June 3-10, 2023

·       Cabo, Mexico: Dreamer’s Retreat for Entrepreneurial Therapists October 6-8, 2022

Transcript

Jennifer Agee: Hello, hello, and welcome to The Sh*t You Wished You Would've Learned in Grad School podcast. I'm your host, Jennifer Agee, licensed clinical professional counselor, and today, I have with me Yunetta Spring Smith. She's a licensed professional counselor, all-around amazing therapreneur, which is the therapist and entrepreneur combined. She is the CEO and founder of Spring Forth Counseling, Ground Breakers Coaching and Consulting, and the brand new Ground Breakers BIPOC EMDR Directory. Yunetta is licensed in Tennessee, Kentucky, and Indiana, she is a published author, she is also on Talk It Out Tuesday with Rickey Smiley Morning Show every week, and she even has her own podcast called Deeper than the Diet. So, I am very happy to have you here today, Yunetta. Welcome.

Yunetta Smith: I am happy to be here. Thanks for having me, Jennifer. Appreciate it.

Jennifer Agee: Absolutely. So, Yunetta and I know each other personally, and we are both entrepreneurial therapists, and that's where we really connect at. And, I wanted to invite her on the podcast today to talk about how to break out of the box that we are all taught is supposed to be what a therapist looks like, because that has been limiting for a lot of entrepreneurs, us included and we've had to do our own work to break out of that box. So, Yunetta, welcome, and let's talk about it.

Yunetta Smith: Yeah, let's talk about it. So, I'm just loving this topic, I'm loving The Sh*t You Wish You Learned in Grad School, because I think we all, me speaking for myself, had to kind of figure it out as we go and still, in some ways, having to figure things out, business-wise, as we go. So, I love that we're talking about breaking out of the box because I don't like boxes. I'm very creative and I like to be free-flowing and kind of go with the flow, and anything that feels like it's limiting, I feel like I'm allergic to it.

Jennifer Agee: You and I are creative in different ways, and I think it's brilliant that you can be creative, but it in very different ways. Yunetta is classically creative. If you look at her Tik Toks, if you look at her social media, even the photos she takes for her online presence, phenomenal, very creative. I am not nearly that creative, but I am creative in the strategic business thinking way. I can zoom out, look down and move pieces of a puzzle around to create strategy that works. So, it's different forms of creativity, but it's been a lot of fun to watch your process.

Yunetta Smith: Yes. It's fun to watch your process, and the areas where I kind of struggle and have an issue with wrapping my mind around, your mind flows so well. But, I just was thinking about when we were in Florida, we have a mastermind group and we were in Florida working on a project, and on my side of the couch, it was chaos. I had books everywhere, SweeTARTS, water, I just had stuff everywhere and you were just sitting very organized and typing and together. And I was like, this is what my brain looks like, this and this. But when we were able to kind of talk and bounce ideas off of each other, it just flowed so well, so I always get that image in my head and I have to laugh when I think about it.

Jennifer Agee: I think about that image, too, and I think that kind of goes into what we're talking about today in part, which is, I think the way scarcity mindset affects not only the way we approach our businesses, but the way we approach other therapists. We can both win, we can both support each other and be strong in different ways and see one another succeed, there's more than enough need that goes around. But that scarcity mentality that gets built into us, especially those who are going into private practice, is something that is hard to break out of.

Yunetta Smith: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think scarcity is based in fear, you know what I mean? That fear that there's not enough or fear that you have to be a certain way to be successful. So, when I look at breaking out of the box, a lot of the reasons why it's difficult is because the fear. I think a lot of how we learn in school, I know for me personally, was very fear-based, very much so you don't want to do this, don't do that, don't break your client, don't re-traumatize them, follow all of these guidelines. And guidelines are important, boundaries are important, we need them to function.

Jennifer Agee: Absolutely.

Yunetta Smith: But, when that is stressed so much, you know, me being an EMDR therapist and really looking at how the brain operates and what happens when you are afraid, like what part of your brain you're you operate in when you're in that fear-based mindset, it really does stifle and suffocate your ability to be authentic and be creative because you're so scared you're going to mess something up.

Jennifer Agee: You are absolutely right. And, I'm a clinical supervisor as well, and one of the things I often have to talk to my supervisees about is that the boundaries are there for a reason, but there's a lot of space within that to be able to operate. And people are so afraid that I'm going to get reported to this state if I do something, I'm going to cross some sort of line I didn't know existed that they stay so far away from any boundary at all that it stifles them from just being who they are authentically in the room with their clients.

Yunetta Smith: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because when you think about it, we often say, I know a lot of people have probably heard the quote of when you are depressed, moreso your mind is in the past, and when you're anxious, your mind is in the future, and being content is when you're very present in the here and now. And, if you're thinking about, am I going to mess up, or am I breaking a rule or a law, or something like that, or breaking the therapy laws? If you're thinking that way, where's your mind in it?

Jennifer Agee: Yeah, you're fear-based.

Yunetta Smith: Right. You're fear-based, your mind is thinking more so in the future, so you're not even really able to connect with your client or in the room with your client at that time. So, a lot of that I had to learn how to be myself and know that is more than enough to be able to help my clients heal and connect and grow and evolve. And, I think being a Black female therapist that was difficult, somewhat, because I didn't have many examples of what that looked like, what this being a therapist looks like for a Black woman, what does that look like? Because a lot of my professors were either white males or some white women, but I really didn't have a template or something to connect with, to build off of. So, a lot of my discovery kind of happened from the ground up.

Jennifer Agee: Well, and you, and there's some others that are really emerging therapists who are groundbreakers, too, for the BIPOC community, and I am absolutely loving watching the way that's starting to grow and thrive. And, there's a unique space now carved out where younger therapists can look up and say, "I see someone who's doing what I'd like to do, and they're successful at it, and they're well respected, and they can be an author and they can be all of these things," I think is brilliant.

Yunetta Smith: Yeah. And, that's a part of how I want to give back. As far as Ground Breakers, being in space where you don't have to be the only one because in a lot of clinical settings, a lot of trainings, a lot of educational settings, I was one of the only people of color in those settings, and it really takes extra effort to decide, do I ask this question? How is this going to be perceived, or will they understand what I mean? Or can they provide an answer that's going to fit me as a person or the demographic of individuals that I work with? Is it going to be taken out of context? There's just a lot of stuff that has to happen mentally to be able to open up in that space. And when that barrier isn't there, creativity can be present, learning can happen, connection can happen in those spaces where you're not the only one. So, I'm really enjoying seeing how Ground Breakers is developing and seeing clinicians who are trained in EMDR or learning more about EMDR become more confident and being able to say, "Hey, this isn't working." And I'm like, "Okay, let's talk about why." That's pretty cool.

Jennifer Agee:

What do you think therapists can do to start to break out of the box? What are some tangible steps you think we can take?

Yunetta Smith: I think the awareness, kind of knowing that you are in the box, I think is really important. Sometimes we don't recognize that first part, that we are limiting ourselves or we feel afraid. The next is really to spend time with yourselves, spend time with community. One of our other friends, Montoya, said this weekend, she said something that was so powerful, she was talking with someone else, but she said, "If you don't have that confidence now, you can borrow some of mine." And I was like, "Oh, that's so sweet." But there's so much power in community and being able to build your confidence around being able to show up as your most authentic self. And then, I think it's important to be able to work through those wounds and those things like, who told you had to be in a box? So, really being able to get to the core of why you're in the box. Is it because you feel like you aren't good enough? Is it because you feel like you can't or you're afraid of what's going to happen when you... Really getting to the core of why you feel like you are limited. I think that's a good start.

Jennifer Agee: Yeah, I love that. And, I really appreciate you highlighting the connection with other therapists, because if there's one piece of advice I could give to younger therapists, it's to surround yourself with other therapists who do not have the mindset that you're all in competition with one another.

Yunetta Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jennifer Agee: That really are there to support and help each other thrive and grow, that will give you honest, constructive feedback when you need it. Because being around another group of therapists who have that same growth mindset, who have that mindset of we can all succeed, there's not a limited amount of ways that we can serve or be successful or build wealth, the dirty word, money and therapy. But, surround yourself with people that have the same mindset in terms of growth, and maybe limit your amount of time with people who are trying to keep you more in that scarcity mindset. That will not serve you well.

Yunetta Smith: Yeah, absolutely. There is room, there's enough people hungry for everybody to eat, there is enough people who need services for everybody to serve. And, I understand that everyone has a lane, some lanes are more congested than others, so it may be more difficult for some people to kind of move through that lane, and some people may be in that the fast lane and they can just breeze through because of whatever experiences they had, whether it be different privileges, different social economic status, different areas that they live in, but we all have our own individual lane. I strongly believe that there is a set of people who need you ,specifically, so it doesn't matter what anybody else is doing, there are just people who are going to gravitate to me because I'm me and I have an assignment to help them and they're called to work with me. And, I think when we look at things from that perspective, then we could just really be focused on what it is we're here to do and not get caught up on what someone else is doing or feel like we need to dim someone else's light so that we can shine. You know what I mean?

Jennifer Agee: Absolutely. Yeah.

Yunetta Smith: So, I try to stay in that mindset, and when I have moments when I'm not, I know that something has activated an area in me that still needs to heal. And, that's the way I look at it when I'm encountering or dealing with someone else, I'm like, Wow, that's the area that they still need to heal and that lets me kind of give them compassion and not call them shit weasels. At times, we call them that anyway, but you know what I mean, because sometimes that's just necessary to get it out and call it what it is. But, it gives me that bit of compassion that's necessary so that their energy doesn't contaminate me.

Jennifer Agee: Yeah, absolutely. Their energy doesn't contaminate me, and that is so poignant, because what we take in and the more we're learning about energy research and things like that, the more we take in from people around us, we have to be mindful and protective of what it is that we're bringing in. And, professionally, when we're sitting with clients, we don't always have control over who's with us and what energy is brought into the room, but professionally, we can make some of those choices and it's okay to be afraid and do things anyway. I know as entrepreneurs, breaking out of the box, breaking out of just sitting on our hiney and making money all day long, it is scary. It is very, very scary and very, very vulnerable, and it's okay to have that vulnerability and those scary moments and reach out and get some reassurance.

Yunetta Smith: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think we've created businesses for us where we have more autonomy and control over how we move and who we interact with, but I think a lot about when I did agency work and how that was completely draining, because trying to keep that abundant mindset and there's room for everybody and I just want to see people heal and let me just share and share and share, and then like getting burned and stuff, burned and burned out in that environment. It makes me think about those folks who may not have necessarily the control that we have as business owners to some degree. And, you know I'm big on analogies...

Jennifer Agee: Yes.

Yunetta Smith: That's how my brain works. So, I love the analogy that it's not the water around the ship that causes the ship to sink, it's the water that you let get inside of the ship that causes it to sink. So, just as an encouragement to those folk, just being mindful to not allow, if you can, as much as you can, that's why's good to have community when you're in environments that you don't necessarily have control over, just making sure that it doesn't seep into who you are as a person, or you start to subscribe to some of the mindsets or some of those practices because you are in an environment that is draining or that's operating from a scarcity perspective.

Jennifer Agee: And, some of the environments in agencies, it's almost a badge of honor how much you work or how much you're sacrificing yourself. And, one of the areas that I think a lot of therapists have limiting beliefs around is money and this idea that because we are helpers and healers in the world, that somehow means that if we are abundant financially, somehow we are frauds, we're phonies, we're not doing what we need to do for a society or the community or something like that. And, there's this mindset that seeped in somewhere and somehow that has really been toxic to therapists in creating a ton of burnout and stress. Lots of people leave the field because they don't feel like they can make a good living. Where the heck did that come from?

Yunetta Smith: Yeah. Yeah. I think some of it is systemic, some of it is cultural to where helpers don't receive. If I help, I'm giving and there's no reciprocity, and the only thing that I can receive as a helper is just the feeling of goodness to help, but there's nothing tangible that I can get from helping. So, I think dismantling that ideology around what a helper is or the heart of a helper, because a lot of that is ingrained in us that so many things better to give than to receive, those type of things that make it very difficult to accept help, if you're a helper. And, one thing I always say is if we have a problem with receiving or accepting help as a helper, then we really have to check ourselves in terms of what is it that you believe about yourself and what is it that you believe about the people that you're helping. Because, if you're above receiving support and help, then what do you think about the people that you're helping? Do you think they're beneath you?

Jennifer Agee: That's a good perspective.

Yunetta Smith: I think that's a good way to kind of check ourselves when we have an issue with reciprocity or with receiving what we're giving. Who told us that was an issue and where does that come from and really unpacking the idea around even how we view people who have money. In a lot of Black and Brown cultures, people who have money have exploited others, the people who have money are not good people, you know what I mean? So, we don't want to be associated with that or don't want to be viewed as such, so we push it away so that we don't have that mindset. But, I feel like money is just a magnifier, it's just going to highlight more of what's already in you. So, if you are a good, kindhearted, caring, loving person, then money is going to cause you to be more kindhearted, more caring, more good, more loving, more giving. And, if you are stingy and selfish, an entitled person, or whatever the case may be, if we're using labels, then the money is just going to magnify that.

Jennifer Agee: Right. This is one of the areas that I think therapists would do well to either do some of their own counseling work or hire a coach to work around this area because it is one of the biggest places I see people limit themselves when they're looking to grow or expand or even conceptualize what it looks like to be a successful therapist. So, I would encourage you if, as we're talking, this is something that's coming up for you and maybe you resonate with some of the ideas that therapists are always supposed to just settle or barely make ends meet, or it's difficult to receive, some of those themes, do your work around it. You'll be really glad that you did.

Yunetta Smith: Yeah. Yeah. We have to. I don't think that's stressed enough in grad school, talking about shit you wish you would've learned. I know we had to take, as a part of the requirement, we had to go to therapy, but it was just go and see what it's like and get that experience. But, it wasn't stressed that this should be a practice for you because, in most cases, most of us got into this field because of some kind of wound. I'm just her saying, "Oh, I'm just a person that people like to come and talk to," or, "oh, I'm just..." No, there is some wound that, in most cases, we are working through ourselves, whether consciously or subconsciously. So, I think really the more work we do, the more present we can be with our clients.

Jennifer Agee: I agree, I agree completely. And, the more you enjoy your job, trying to not get into phases of burnout. Burnout is super prevalent for helpers of any kind, but doing your own work certainly helps with that. I've always said the antidote to burnout is balance. So if you're pouring out, pouring out, pouring out, and you're not receiving and allowing your cup to be filled again, you're going to get burned out. That is an absolute recipe for disaster. People burnout, they leave the field. Instead, I would encourage people to do the work along the way so that you can have a long career in this. Speaking of long careers, I'd like to talk for a minute, a slight pivot here, there are a lot of different things that you could do in this field without having your butt in the seat full time. So, let's talk a little bit about that because long careers in this field have different phases and different stages for most people. So, I'd love to talk about that.

Yunetta Smith: Yeah. Yeah. I think when you're talking about burnout and balance, I think that's pivotal, having something. I know me, I get bored, and my brain is looking for something to kind of get into that's exciting and new and fresh and fun. That's just how I am, that's how I operate, I love it. And doing the same thing over and over again, repetitively, same clients, it is, it can cause burnout. So, I think being willing to pivot and see. A lot of times, I kind of try to look at things from the perspective of if I'm hearing the same thing over and over again, or seeing the same thing over and over again, my idea is how can I work smarter and not harder. So, if this is an issue, then how do I address? I use my hands and you all can't see my hands, but how do I-

Jennifer Agee: YouTubers will see your hand.

Yunetta Smith: How do I address what's above that issue, that system that's creating that issue? So, being open to be creative and find ways to how do I address this issue, that's how I came up with Ground Breakers. It was because when I went through my EMDR training, it was me and two other clinicians of color, and we all knew each other, and we stuck together through certification. And then us sticking together and having that community, I was like, wow, this works for us. How many other people don't have this? So, how can I create something so other people have what I have that worked for me?

Jennifer Agee: Yeah. And that's that's the therapeneur, the therapist entrepreneur mindset. But, I want to address, for those of you listening who are not entrepreneurial, because not everyone is, and that is okay. I want to give you some things that I've done in the past that have been really helpful when I know I'm starting to experience burnout. I will change my Psychology Today profile to change the types of clients that I am-

Yunetta Smith: Oh yeah.

Jennifer Agee: And I keep a Word document — I know I'm organized — I keep a word document of every different-

Yunetta Smith: Or a spreadsheet.

Jennifer Agee: Of my Psychology Today profile options in one Word document so that if I want to take a break from couples, because they can be exhausting, then I will take that off of my profile and I will highlight something else. So, I kind of switch it around so that I'm not always drawing the exact same thing. I like the variety, it helps the day go by a little bit faster, some people are super niche down, and they see the same thing all day, every day, and if that's you and you love it, cool beans for you, that ain't me. So, I try and switch it up, but I life hack myself with not having to do more work by having multiple profiles. Every time I write a new one, it's saved in there, that way when I want to switch step up, I just copy and paste, boom, we're done.

Yunetta Smith: Yeah, I love that. I love that idea of kind of being able to manage the flow of clients that you get coming in. I kind of do that a little bit with training. So, if I feel like I'm getting burnt out in an area and I need to fire some different neurons in my brain, then I'll go get trained as something else. And then I could still work with, if I want to still work with the people I'm working with, but I'm coming with something fresh and new, a new technique and seeing how that operates. So, that's another way to kind of keep things fresh and prevent burnout by learning something new.

Jennifer Agee: Absolutely. Following your curiosity, for me, has been one of the most fun things I've done in this career because I did not limit myself to, it has to look a certain way. So, when I really enjoyed certain types of therapy, I did that and when I became curious about other things, or I wanted to do clinical supervision, or I wanted to do the retreats, whatever it was, I allowed myself the freedom to flow around. And, it's created a lot of enjoyment in this job, it's created a diversity of people I would've never met otherwise, and I would just encourage the people that are listening, follow your curiosity. It doesn't have to all go a certain way that you had in your head it was supposed to go. Let life take you a little bit where where it goes. Put some structure around it — that's my opinion, of course, Miss Structure — but put a little bit of structure around it, but enjoy it. This career is fascinating, it's phenomenal, I love human beings, and I think they're super interesting. So, there's always something new we can learn.

Yunetta Smith: Yeah, absolutely. I agree. I agree. And, I'm kind of going back because in my brain I'm thinking, and sometimes, some situations cause us to literally be in a box. For instance, I'm at an agency or I'm not an entrepreneur and I'm working where I have to follow these guidelines because that's where I'm at, or I'm in this system and I have to follow the system because this is how the country works, this is how it works, and I still want to be authentic and true to who I am. Even within those parameters, being able to move freely, you can still be free in the box, too, until you can get fully out of the box or whatever. But, just finding ways, even within the environment that you're in, whether workplace environment, location, whatever you find yourself, asking yourself, how can I show up as myself just a little bit more in this environment?

Jennifer Agee: Yeah.

Yunetta Smith: You know what I mean? How can I use what's here? I feel like everything we need is available to us, within us, or in our proximity, or whatever the case may be. I went to a training and — I'm losing the guy's name now, I don't remember his name — but he talked about the power of storytelling. And he talked about how sometimes we can get so caught up on like the environment and stuff that we're in and get so conditioned to feel things have to be a certain way to have a successful session. And, he talked about when he was doing, he was remodeling his home and there was stuff out of place, it was dust everywhere, they had like two chairs, but it was the most powerful sessions that he had had. He remembers all of those sessions because of the environment was different. And, I remember one time I had a client, and I was rushing, I locked myself out of my office, and there was an empty office next door. And I was like, "If you want to reschedule, we could reschedule, but I'm locked out. We could sit on the floor and here and have a session." And she was like, "Cool." And we sat on the floor in an empty office and had the most powerful, meaningful session that we probably had had since we had been working together. So, knowing that you are enough, your presence alone has power, and not being so caught up on all of the things that you're told that you have to be to be a successful therapist, knowing that you alone are enough, and you can help your clients heal and change just because you're in a room.

Jennifer Agee: Yeah, absolutely. That is so beautiful. And, most of us who are in this field are intuitive by nature or through life circumstances, depending on what your belief is in that. And our presence, if we can get out of what we think is supposed to happen in a session and we tune in to just being present with the client-

Yunetta Smith: I was really thinking that.

Jennifer Agee: Yeah. That's where the magic happens. You get this weird thought like, I should ask about this and you think, where the world did that come from? And then you're like, ah, okay, I've learned to trust myself, I'll ask the question. And the person says, "How did you know?" And that wouldn't have come if you were so busy going by a prescribed way that you thought the session was supposed to go. So, whether it's been being entrepreneurial or just being in the room with a client, it's okay to break out of the box, be authentically who you are, show up and be fully present, and enjoy this amazing career. Yunetta, thank you for being here. Thank you so much for being here. Tell people how they can connect with you.

Yunetta Smith: Yes. So, you can find me on my social media platform. So, Spring Forth Counseling is my practice page, and Ground Breakers is my new page that I'm building for the BIPOC EMDR Directory, so you could follow that. I got a TikTok, Yunetta Spring. You know what? I think created my TikTok around the same time when we...

Jennifer Agee: I did. You were so creative on TikTok; you've taught me a lot.

Yunetta Smith: I was like one or two videos in when... I play around on there when I feel like it. So, my websites are Spring Forth Counseling for my practice and then Ground Breakers Therapy if you're looking for information on EMDR services.

Jennifer Agee: Awesome. And I will link all of that below for you. And I just want to thank you again for coming. If you would like to connect more with the podcast or with me, counselingcommunity.com, or Facebook, Counseling Community, Instagram, Counseling Community. We're here for you. We want to see you grow, we want to see you thrive, we want to see you be in this career and love it. So, whatever we can do to help support you in doing that, let's do it. Get out there and live your best dang life. Have a good-

Yunetta Smith: Love it, love it.