OTs In Pelvic Health
Welcome to the OTs In Pelvic Health Podcast! This show is for occupational therapists who want to become, thrive and excel as pelvic health OTs. Learn from Lindsey Vestal, a Pelvic Health OT for over 10 years and founder the first NYC pelvic health OT practice - The Functional Pelvis. Inside each episode, Lindsey shares what it takes to succeed as a pelvic health OT. From lessons learned, to overcoming imposter syndrome, to continuing education, to treatment ideas, to different populations, to getting your first job, to opening your own practice, Lindsey brings you into the exciting world of OTs in Pelvic Health and the secrets to becoming one.
OTs In Pelvic Health
Beyond the Blueprint: Paving Your Own Path in Pelvic Health with Lynn Schulte
- OT Pioneers: Intro to Pelvic Floor Therapy opens January 15-19, 2024
- We'd love to welcome you to Pelvic OTPs United - Lindsey's off social media community ($39 a month with no obligation!)
Today's episode features:
Lynn Schulte of the Birth Healing Institute was my guest for this week's "OTs in Pelvic Health" podcast. On the epsiode, our conversation got a little personal as we chatted about:
✨Lynn's journey to finding her out of the box approach to pelvic health. What signs and signals did she get along the way that encouraged her to listen to and then develop a different approach? How did she find the confidence to lean into it?
💥She shares things that surprised her along your journey and hardships that she had to overcome
💥After helping so many heal after birth, Lynn shares a bit about her own birth experiences
✨Lynn has two grown sons. How does she talk with her sons about intuition
Here's where you can find my guest:
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Pelvic OTPs United - Lindsey's off-line interactive community for $39 a month!
Inside Pelvic OTPs United you'll find:
- Weekly group mentoring calls with Lindsey. She's doing this exclusively inside this community. These aren't your boring old Zoom calls where she is a talking head. We interact, we coach, we learn from each other.
- Highly curated forums. The worst is when you post a question on FB just to have it drowned out with 10 other questions that follow it. So, she's got dedicated forums on different populations, different diagnosis, different topics (including business). Hop it, post your specific question, and get the expert advice you need.
More info here. Lindsey would love support you in this quiet corner off social media!
Lindsey Vestal My guest today is Lynn Schulte, who is a birth healing specialist and pelvic health physical therapist for over 30 years and founder of the Institute for Birth Healing, an educational platform for practitioners and Center for Birth Healing her clinical practice. Lynn has been helping moms heal from all of the issues women experience after birth and is now teaching courses to body workers to help them do the same. She offers a certification process to help birth professionals become birth healing specialists. For a long time, I have been aspiring to have Lynn on the podcast and our conversation actually got a little bit personal. I really wanted to learn about Lynn's journey in finding her out of the box approach to Pelvic health. So I asked her what were some signs and signals that helped encourage her to listen and develop a different approach. I also wanted to know things that surprised her along her journey, as well as some hardships that she had to overcome. And of course, with all of the people that Lynn helps heal from their birth experiences, I asked Lynn what her own birth experiences were like. Now, Lynn has two sons, and I was dying to know how she talks with them about intuition. So buckle up. This was such a fun conversation. Let's get into it now. New and seasoned OTs are finding their calling in Pelvic health. After all, what's more adult than sex, peeing and poop? But here's the question What does it take to become a successful, fulfilled and thriving oat in pelvic health? How do you go from beginner to seasons and everything in between? Those are the questions and this podcast will give you the answers. We are inspired OTs. We are out of the box OTs. We are Pelvic health OTs. I'm your host Lindsey Vestal and welcome to the OTs and Pelvic health Podcast. Lynn, I am delighted, absolutely delighted to welcome you.
Lindsey Vestal To the OTs for Pelvic health podcast. Thank you for being here.
Lynn Schulte Lindsey, thank you so much. I love, love, love. Any opportunity to chat, especially with OTs, because like you guys said, I am one, right? I'm an honorary.
Lindsey Vestal One for those who did not was not were not able to come to the OTs for Pelvic health Summit just.
Lindsey Vestal This past August 20th, 23. It was unanimous. We had 100 attendees, and I think everyone in that.
Lindsey Vestal Room.
Lindsey Vestal Officially officially declared Lynn and OTs. So it is it is legit.
Lindsey Vestal It was I was seeing.
Lynn Schulte It in my introduction to my talk. I'm like, I feel like I resonate with you guys more that I might this work, this body of work that I'm then putting out into the world has been so more well-received in the OTs world than it has been in the world. And so that's why I was like, I resonate with you guys, I love you guys. I just it's such a breath of fresh air to be in a room with just all OTs.
Lindsey Vestal Is so I love it.
Lindsey Vestal Well, I have to say that's that is sort of the theme of our chat today. You know, when I thought, Goodness, I have an hour to spend with Lynn. Well, what should we talk about? And what kept coming to me as I was reflecting on our time together was something that I experienced back when I took a course with you in Brooklyn. And I think it was 2018, if I'm not mistaken. And for me it was a sense of finding home with manual work. And I often talk about feeling like an odd clothing. And Lynn I did not feel that way. And that was the first time when I really thought there there is a possibility here. There is a novel and refreshing approach that will enable me to to help my clients in a way that felt authentic for the lens that I felt so in touch with, which was the odd perspective. So that is really what I want to talk about with you today is kind of like you discovered that.
Lynn Schulte But I want to ask you, Lindsay, what was it? What was it about that course that gave you that?
Lindsey Vestal I did not feel like an imposter. The work that the words, the work, your presence, even the pelvic ball exercise that we started off with, I immediately felt like I had come home. I knew I was being stretched out of my comfort zone, but that's why we go to courses. But there's a difference between being stretched outside your comfort zone and feeling like there's a home beacon there while you're being stretched. And your work really resonated with me that I could do this in a way that allowed me to use my intuition and things that I couldn't cognitively discuss in some of the other courses that I've been to. And I immediately felt like this was that missing space that I needed to fully help my clients in New York City.
Lynn Schulte Awesome. Awesome.
Lindsey Vestal That's so cool. I love that.
Lindsey Vestal So I'm I'm I'm honored that our parts of it continue to cross in so many ways that I love, too. I'd love to start off just by learning a little bit about your journey to finding what I call your out of box approach to Pelvic health. And Lynn, if you could try to put yourself back in into the shoes when you first started off as a beauty and you know you were there learning the basics, what signs and signals did you get along the way that really encouraged you to listen and to kind of like lean into this different approach?
Lynn Schulte Yeah, gosh, there's so many, you know, so just so people know, I back in the mid-nineties, I took a course from Jerry House on the pelvis in the sacred Iliac joint, and that really transformed my work with low back pain. And secretly I joined Dysfunction and I loved it. And it was just it just made so much sense to me. And I really embrace it. And I think one of the gifts that I have that I think has really, really spurred me in all these different directions is the ability to go to a course and immediately apply what I learned. You know, I heard from other students in the class like, I can't do this until I really got it, you know? And I'm like, I never, ever have had that concept. It's like, if I learn something new, I'm going to go apply it and start using it and play with it. And until I figure it out, it my clients are going to be the guinea pigs. And I've never had any qualms about that. And that has allowed me to just immediately implement new concepts, new ideas and just and just start playing with it and. I'll never forget. And I can still remember to this day, the working on a client's head doing cranial sacral therapy, having in I'm not sure how long I had been doing the cranio like when I took the course, but there was a moment in time because I learned from Uploader and there was a ten step protocol. And so you do the ten steps in your sessions. But I actually gave myself permission that day and I can remember it just still today to do whatever I felt. And instead of like following the box, you know, of doing one, two, three through ten, I just started kind of letting my hands feel what they were feeling and just start doing what was going to happen in my hands and on that head. And I think that was a big, you know, step of just like, okay, I understand these concepts. I've been doing it for a while now. I'm going to do what comes up and comes naturally. So that was kind of another step that just gave me the freedom to kind of listen to the body and play with it. And then I think taken the visceral manipulation courses and I'll I tell this in my classes, like I remember learning them teaching local listening, where you put your hand in the middle of the trunk person laying on their back and you put your hand in the middle and you listen to see where your hand gets pulled in. And I remember in class going, yeah, right, I'm never going to feel that. That's what my head told me. But I set it aside and I put my hand on the body and I started getting pulled in. And those are you're being pulled into the facial restrictions. And so I was like, my gosh, I can do this. I can do this. So cool. So then, you know, that kind of opened me up to this idea of listening to the body, where are there restrictions in the body? And so I think it's like all these little tidbits that I've picked up from different continue education courses. Even Jerry has this course and him compressing the femur bone and helping, you know, and just kind of and it was it wasn't one of his main teaching points but it was like, you know, at a lab and I was just around and he's like, look, the bones actually have a little bit of bent to them. And, you know, if you can compress in the bone actually bends a little bit. And that was my like blown away like wow really? And and him applying that. I just took that concept and I just started playing with the body will if it bends on one side, it should bend on the other side. And if it doesn't bend on one side and it does bend on the other side, well, what needs to happen to help it to bend more? And and so it's kind of like all those concepts. I just kind of started taking and applying it to the body, to every person that was in front of me and just started exploring, Well, if the left side does that, the right side should do it in the same way. And if it does it, what's causing it not to do it that way. And really listening to the body and, you know, then, then what happened to me is I'm working on the body and my hands are on the body. And I had been doing a lot of spiritual exploration and studying with a Hindu guru. Now I grew up Catholic, everybody.
Lindsey Vestal So I'm like a Catholic girl.
Lynn Schulte But then I became a Presbyterian because they weren't in really any. There are only older people at Catholic churches and I was a young 30 something and a 20 something person, so I was going presbytery. So I was always a explorer, I guess, of spirituality and the body. And so I was following this Hindu guru and, and really getting into that a little bit. And then all of a sudden I'm working on a body in my hand start floating up above the body. And I was like.
Lindsey Vestal What the heck's happening?
Lynn Schulte And so then I was like, I just got curious with, all right, my hands, you know, kind of like that weedy board type of thing. My hands are just kind of floating above the body. And and I just started questioning like, what's going on? What am I sensing? What am I feeling? What's what's what's happening here? And and my pretty brain couldn't handle that because my PT brain is used to going to a course and learning something and then applying it to the bot. Well, something's starting to happen that that I didn't know what it was and so I had to try to figure it out. So I went and I took a Reiki course and, and I'm like, okay, that's great. But yeah, that's not really yet, you know, like, so I got a little Reiki underneath me, but then I just started trusting it more and it wouldn't always happen. And sometimes I would like blow past it and make sure I put my hands on the body because I'm a beauty, right? And so, you know, it's just this evolution that started happening. And then I remember when I moved to Boulder and I kind of had to start my practice all over again, and I was just seeing postpartum clients and I got on a different spiritual path. And cars is the path I follow now. And then I started to hear the whispers coming through louder. And as I'm working on the body, I heard a, Hey, check this out, look at this. And it like it. The whispers, the intuition, that inner wisdom that it hits, whatever you want to call it. To me, it's spirit talking to me and helping me. It was guiding me and it was like, look at that rotation in the pelvis. And then I got curious with it and I started figuring it out. And like, I just brought that curiosity to what I was seeing in the body. And nOTsce that. I did. You know, I did this. So I did the anterior posterior rotations, which I know, you know, did the spring testing for that and that I cleared that, but it was still rotated. How what else is it? And then I just started feeling it and nOTscing the shear of the sacrum. And that's when I corrected that. And then I nOTsced that that pattern was gone. And then my client was like, my back pains got cool. All right, great. And then starting to feel into those initial bones and realizing why is one is she'll bone more out to the side than the other bone. What's that about? You know? And so all these little insights, these intuitive hits kept coming up. And I discovered and discovered and and that's I was doing interval journal work one day on a client and I had just gotten done assessing your pelvic floor muscles and and the intuitive hit was check out her bladder and I'm like her bladder. How do I do that? Okay. So then I, you know, my fingers appointed down towards the pelvic floor muscles. So I just turned my fingers up and felt that anterior. What am I? Well, here's where the bladder is. And so I'm like, Well, okay, this is the urethra. Well, at the end of the urethra is the bladder. And so I started palpating that anterior vaginal wall. And then I nOTsced that there was a pattern in there. And I'm like, Well, how what do I do with this? And let me see if I can change this. And then I did. I made some changes in that tissue and then I went back down and the muscles were different and I hadn't even touched them. It's like, wow. And so that it was really all those intuitive hits that helped guide me to find these patterns in the body in a new way to approach the body. I don't know why I always have my hand. I mean, I do know why, but I don't know how it started, but I've always treated it when I'm internally. My other outside hand is always on the bones of the pelvis. And I think it's just intuitively I knew that that was going to be helpful. And then I, you know, so it's just that bringing curiosity, being open to intuition and then exploring what I was finding in the body. And really being able to listen is really how I've kind of developed this this approach to the body that is just so fun. It's it's magical the way when you work with the body in this way, it really takes a lot of the. I have to figure it out. You know, I don't have to be. I don't have to figure it out. The body will tell me if I listen.
Lindsey Vestal What? What a beautiful what a.
Lindsey Vestal Beautiful reflection and a beautiful journey. And there's kind of three themes that really pop out as I was listening to you. One is trust and self.
Lynn Schulte Yes.
Lindsey Vestal The second is curiosity. And the third is play balance. I really see that interwoven in so much of what you shared. And then something else that really resonated with me, Lynn, is this idea that to look at our client and not be afraid to look at our client as a guinea pig. One of the things that I see a lot with myself and even the students I've had the privilege to support is this idea that we have to walk in with a plan. We have to know what we're doing. And if we don't, we're somehow doing a disservice to our clients. And I just really want to thank you for being so transparent with sharing. Actually, no, we don't, actually. Experimenting with a little bit of this course and this course and this course to find your voice, I think will ultimately serve the client the best because we all have our teachers and our mentors that are with us. And then we step into our own. And that's what a good mentor does it. They encourage us to find how we can express their wisdom in our current day practice with what who we are. And you really did that. And I loved.
Lindsey Vestal Also this you getting this ten step protocol going that I that really resonates with me is this.
Lynn Schulte Is what I teach with my students is like, I really want you all to understand the concepts I'm teaching, like understand the patterns, understand the the mobilizations and the techniques in the way they're taught and have that foundation and then go make it your own. Go do it in the way that the body needs it. And the fact that, you know, my the two biggest concepts that I teach is we need to always respect the tissues and never force anything to happen and to never create pain. So if we're not creating pain and we're respecting the tissues, we shouldn't be creating problems. We shouldn't be injuring our clients. Now, a lot of the techniques taught in traditional PT, and I'm not familiar with T traditional courses, but in the PT world, you know, we're learning, we're taught mobilizations in this direction and mobilization here and you know, like and how to do it. And over the years I have I've let all that go. And I will engage the tissue and follow the tissue and let the tissue guide me in where it needs to go, because then I'm not imparting to the body. I'm letting the body guide me. And that, I think, is another way that we will not create problems in our clients. And so I think sometimes, you know, sometimes, yes, we do need that grade three grade for mobilization to maybe the glenohumeral joint, you know, to get increased range of mOTson. Maybe we don't. You know, so I think there's different ways that we can approach the body. And I have just found over the years that the more I let go of what I learned in school now, still keeping the foundation of that knowledge and the the physiology and the ah through kinematics of the joints and understanding that. But listening to the body and letting the body guide me has served me so much better.
Lindsey Vestal I have some super exciting news for you. Pioneers ensure that pelvic floor therapy is opening for enrollment January 13th through the 17th, 2025. This is your chance to dive into a 100% online course with lifetime access. You'll get five group mentoring calls with me and two free months inside our off social media private community Pelvic OTP's United. Plus, we're hosting an optional in-person lab in Cleveland on February 21st and 22nd. Please come join over 1500 other hotties who have already taken the leap. I can't wait to see you inside. O.T. Pioneers Enrollment January 13th through 17th 2025. Yeah, that's. That's really beautiful. And I think you got to probably what is going on in the back of a lot of our mind when we do have that self-doubt and that is that concern that we may hurt our client. So as long as we stay by those principles of respecting and not causing pain, I think there is a lot of room for curiosity and play and trust, and that is when it gets fun. I heard you say that several times and I think that's why, Lynn, it is so fun for you and anyone who's taken a course, who has been around you, you can sense that immediately. And I've even been treated by you. And I felt that in the treatment room, you know. So I think that that's that those are beautiful. And I will tell you that you just went through my next two questions.
Lindsey Vestal I love you to quote. It's beautiful. You we're we're we're working we're working through it. And as you know, as intuition would lead, it's fantastic. But I'd love to know.
Lindsey Vestal I'd love to know. Next, would you mind sharing something that surprised you along this journey of going from, you know, this with these protocols? And I could imagine you being a very stellar student and in your courses to now coming to this side of your practice, is there anything there that surprised you between that in that journey?
Lynn Schulte Gosh, What would be the surprise? I think the body is always surprising me, and I think the biggest surprise is how much fun it is. I early on in my career, I remember feeling that the quality of my day depended on how my clients were doing. And I'm like, that's not good. You know, I'm either having a good day or a bad day based on how my clients are coming in. And early on, when we don't really know that much. It was a lot of downer days. And I knew intuitively, like, this isn't good. I need to change this. And I chose I was doing temporary P.T. out in Seattle. And I loved that because there was a there was an end at the end of the you know, like I was there for six weeks. Right. And so I only needed to work with these patients for six weeks and then I'm out of there. And I didn't have those patients coming back saying I'm no better, I'm no better. I'm no better. Right. Because that's that's depressing. That that's why I would be down at the end of the day. And so I think from going from there to where I'm at today, I think that's the surprise. Lindsey is just the amount of joy and fun and this this approach. And I just someone just left us a Google review saying her session was life changing. And and it just blows me away still to this day that it is like my students say that with this work and my clients say it with receiving this work, that it's life changing. And I had no idea that I would get to this point in my career and have the work that I am doing be so impactful for so many people. So I think that's the biggest surprise because I didn't start I didn't that wasn't my intention. Right. Like along this journey, I just luckily found my way here.
Lindsey Vestal So and I can think of so many, so many touch points that I know of. I'm sure there's so many more. I mean, you've been doing, you know, the the birth healing summit for a decade now. You know, I think of that in such a fond regards to my own learning journey during Covid, you better believe I prioritized every.
Lindsey Vestal Single and I still do.
Lindsey Vestal But that got me through so many so many darker days in Covid. Was that your your summit overlapped with that, and there's been so many ways that you've really exemplified lifelong learning and bringing that information to to the forefront of not only clients but professionals, because you run to two summits a year. And so it's it is it's a privilege to to be able to be on this side of it, having this conversation with you and kind of seeing seeing parts of that. And along with that, along with thinking about that journey. Lynn, are there any hardships that you can reflect on that you kind of had to overcome?
Lynn Schulte Yeah. So this was before the Institute was a thing I, I had put together. You know, I had been treating pregnancy and postpartum clients and I put together some videos and an online course really was my first attempt of doing an online course. But it was for moms. And I took a I paid for a yearlong mentorship with a coach. Huge investment, huge investment. You know, I think it was $25,000 for the year. Right? But I'm like, this is what he needs it. And it was marketing. It was figuring out how to market. And I went into it having these two videos and that's what I wanted to market. But working with that coach, sorry, I'm kind of getting off on a tangent. I started doing other stuff, more women, more entrepreneurial empowerment because I was working with the energy of the pelvic space and I had gotten introduced to Timbaland, Ken's work and the Wild Feminine, and that lit a fire underneath me. And and I appreciate you saying a lifelong learner. I am. That is like I'm always learning. I love to learn and will continue to learn till I die and love this saying we're either learning or dying. You know, we're either growing or dying and I am all about growing. And so taking her work and putting it into a program of, you know, the energetics of the pelvic space, because I've learned in the work that I was doing that just shifting someone's energy of her pelvic space was shifting their life again, life changing sessions. And, you know, I started applying what I was learning. I had already been doing it somewhat in my own way. And then Tammy Lynn Cain Kent came into my my world and was like, she kind of had the cookbook, the recipe for what I was doing, you know, and kind of fine tuned what I was already doing. So it just melded beautifully with her. And and so I was applying this in this coaching program. I was kind of was running two totally separate businesses. And I couldn't figure out what I needed to do with that. And I spent probably year.
Lindsey Vestal Year.
Lynn Schulte And a half struggling trying to figure out what the heck am I supposed to do with this? And thank goodness a Rene Gerber was a PT in Denver here. She took my online programing for women's empowerment that I that the program that I put together for that. And I ended up talking to her in 2016 and I was like, Rene, I'm run in two separate businesses here. They're they're not meshing. And I just don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. And she's like, Glenn, you need to take this and teach it to your practitioners of what you know about over here working with a pregnant postpartum client. And it was that light bulb moment a seriously a year and a half of struggling, trying to figure out what am I supposed to do with this? I know I have something here and I'm not quite sure what it is or how I'm supposed to do it. And I spent so much more money reaching out to other people, trying to figure out, you know, and get the help and the support I needed to. Because I know that if if there's a block, it's within us and we have to do our own work in order to be able to get to where we want to go sometimes. And so I was doing all this work on myself. And finally it was her conversation where I just I kind of had this in him. Like, I feel like I need to teach what I know about pregnancy and postpartum to these two other practitioners. And she's like, Lynn, you need to take this and bring that to that. And that was the huge lightbulb moment where I was like, that's when the Institute for Birth Healing was born. But it did not come easy, everybody.
Lindsey Vestal Lynn, you know, you have helped so many of us as practitioners as well as so many clients to have better recoveries postpartum. And I'm not sure if you've ever talked about this, and I'm so curious if you feel comfortable sharing. What was your birth experience like?
Lynn Schulte yeah, so me sweet the birth of my. I want to share both, actually.
Lindsey Vestal Yeah.
Lynn Schulte Yeah. So I want to share my myself as a baby being born. I was born breech. And my dad. So I was born in 68. Everybody don't calculate how old I am. Okay. But my dad was so proud of the fact that he was the first man to be in the delivery room for my brother, who was two years older. And so he said he was there when I was born. But and all I heard was he was born breech that I was born breech. I never asked how I was born. And and so I was at one of Tami Lincoln's workshops and we were talking about the energy of our birth and how it impacts how we show up in the world. And and I said, Tammy, I know I was born breech. There's like work with a midwife. And I'm like, okay. So I get on the table with this midwife and my body because we need to remember our bodies don't know time and space. So the cells of her body remember every single thing that we have experienced in this body from conception to today. And so I'm laying on the table and I'm like, just thinking about my birth. And my left leg draws up, my knee draws up to my chest in my right leg, just as straight as an arrow out. And I'm like, I wonder if I was born feet first and I was born with a right leg out in the left leg tucked up in in. And if you think about that energetically, the right leg is about putting ourselves out into the world. And the left leg is about receiving and being in the world and allowing in. And so I it's kind of this push pull. And at that moment in time, we, I repress it and then I could feel my entire body tightened from my belly all the way up through my chest. And I could feel the compression of the cervix on my body as I was coming out. Right. And it was so incredibly powerful. And then then I, you know, was able to connect the energy from my head down to my toes. And I swear, Lindsey, I connected into the universe of universal energy. Like, it wasn't just the universe's energy, but the energy of the universe of universes. Like it was so expansive and so incredibly powerful. I was like, Holy cow. Totally worth the price of admission just for that experience. But the important the the interesting piece with that is that the right leg trying to put yourself out into the world but the left leg holding me back I could think of one one instance of me. That's how I was showing up in the world. I wrote an article for Midwifery Today back in 2017 about what I was finding in the bones of the pelvis. I didn't input any contact information in that article. I just had my name, you know, No business name, no nothing. Right. And so it's like, there I am. I'm trying to get the word out, but I'm not making it.
Lindsey Vestal Easy for everybody.
Lynn Schulte I'm holding myself back. And so it's so interesting how the energy of our birth shows up and how we're showing up in the world as well. So another example of that, not for myself, but like a C-section, someone who was born via C-section. They always get themselves stuck and then look for someone to rescue them. And so there's this this this rescue. Like I'm I'm going to only do so much. And then I give up and I wait for someone to to save me. And so when we can shift that energy of our birth, we can stop those patterns from happening. So so that that is my experience of being born in the world now myself, having my two boys, I have two boys now. My births were actually pretty good. They were only seven and eight hours long and I did not have I did get a light narcotic with my first son, which I did not want. But, you know, like when you're in that birth space, one thing that I did not do that I would totally do differently. I would have had a doula there. I had my partner and a friend who was a pet, but she had no experience with birth. And so it was kind of left to my my own. And, you know, my girlfriend's her voice was in my head. Lynn, there's no metal for childbirth. Take the drugs. It was her advice to me. And I remember getting to six centimeters with the first one. And and I'm like, my God, this is intense. And I know I still have to get to ten and then push the baby out and, you know, and so I gave in and I got a light narcOTsc. That's what they offered me. But I have to say, I was more afraid of getting an epidural and getting an epidural headache than then. Yeah. So I did not want an epidural. And but I got the light narcOTsc and within 20 minutes he was born. So I wish I would have had someone there to just kind of coach me over that and say, You can do this. And then I because then he was sleepy. He didn't breastfeed well, like just for the brutal of of that decision. But anyway, my second baby was born naturally with no no drugs. And I, I remember afterwards going, my God, that was hell. I'm getting an epidural if I ever get pregnant again. He was a little bit longer, but he came out with his arm up by his head. So that's that. Yeah. Both of my births were really good. And, you know, I think a lot of that and people are good. I know how to poop, you know, that that pooping, being able to effectively poop is just like having a baby and pushing a baby on out. And I was good at that. So, yeah, my births were not dramatic. And a lot of people, I think, might assume that because I do this work, that I did have that experience. But now this is another little tidbit about me and this is might stretch some of you that may not subscribe to this idea of past lives, but I do subscribe to past lives. And I believe I was OB-GYNs and past lives. I remember after having my first baby going.
Lindsey Vestal I need to be in this field. I need to do something with birth.
Lynn Schulte I want to do something, you know, like and I was even thinking, do I become a midwife? Do I become an object when, you know, like after my first baby was born, it lit something in me, like, I need to do something with birth. And I truly believe that that was from that influence maybe of a past life or something of being in in birth, you know? And little did I know, like I didn't I did not start this until eight year. Let's see. Yeah. So 18 years later, I started doing birth work, you know, really working with the pregnancy and postpartum population. So it was in 2008, I had my son in 2000. So anyway, eight years, eight years later is when I really started doing the the birth work stuff.
Lindsey Vestal So yeah, that is phenomenal. Thank you so much for sharing all that.
Lindsey Vestal And I love the story too, about your own experience and covering the the births. Excuse me, the breech story.
Lynn Schulte I did confirm with my mom after that class, I go, mom, was I born feet first? And she's like, Yes. And I was my right leg came off first. I was like, I don't know. But I go, I know I did because that's what my body went into. So yeah, that's incredible.
Lindsey Vestal That's incredible that I went I have another I have another personal question for you, which is, you know, you mentioned you have two sons.
Lynn Schulte How do you.
Lindsey Vestal Talk about your son? I know they're older now. Right. But because when I'll ask you this question and you can tap into whatever sort of part of the journey of parenthood really speaks to you, but how do you talk with your sons about intuition and kind of encouraging them to. Understand that a little bit more.
Lynn Schulte Yeah. Well, it was funny because, you know, I am so much into the energy and and it was funny when my boys were younger growing up, they hated that word. They, you know, I'm like, you need to shift your energy, you know, And. And there's like, stop it, mom, We don't like that word. And they are just like, my gosh. And so, my gosh, what was the word that I would use? You need to change your attitude, I think, you know, or is what I started changing. I think it was attitude or. Yeah, I use a different word too, like, okay, you just need to shift. And I think I was out of tune. Now I'm not remembering the word that came up, but the neither of them were really into that at all. But what I what I tried to do as they were growing up really is to help them tune more into themselves. I think our in our society were so uninvited. And I just, you know, like. So how does your body feel after you ate that piece of chocolate cake? You know? How do you feel? You know, it looks like you're really upset. What do you want? You know, what are you feeling? What are you nOTscing in your body? Like, really trying to turn them inward. And helping like my son, my oldest son, he whenever he would get angry or upset, he'd need to move his body. And so I'd help him find ways to move his body. And, you know, even as a I think he was 13, 14, 15 or something, it's 1130 at night. And he got really angry. And he's like, Mom, I need to go ride my bike. And I'm like, okay. And, you know, he rode his bike at 1130 at night, dark. You know, I'm like, my God, what are the neighbors going to think? You know? But I knew he needed to be outside and moving, and that helped him to process. And so I just really kind of helped them to tune into what they were feeling and and allowing that, number one, because I think a lot of I know my my upbringing, I wasn't allowed to have emOTsons. You know, we just stuffed everything. So I was really about trying to help my kids feel and process. And, you know, they they did not like the word energy. So I tried to use something else to add, you know, attitude or whatever it was that I used, but really like helping them and just guiding them, you know, I see myself as a coach, you know, and helping them, coaching them through life, and it's helping them figure out. I always saw how how responsible my boys were. And this is for those of you with young ones and this is my number one tip that I give to all young parents, especially in that two, three, four year old stage. If you start getting into a power struggle with your kid, give them more responsibility. If you can see more responsibility and you give that to them, you see them grow an inch, they like grow. They they just step into that responsibility. Because as humans, we want that. And if we keep coddling our kids and doing everything for them, then they don't figure out how to do it themselves. We I would love parents to treat their kids like adults within the boundaries of their age, you know, understanding, but treat a kid like an adult. But, you know, keep in mind their their age. And if we do that, then our kids step up to being that. And, you know, I saw all of my kids parents and the fear that they imparted on all their kids. And I never had that because my kids always stepped up to be the responsible person that they were because I saw that in them. And I see all these other parents who didn't see that in their kids, and they don't show them that because their guards are going to show you are going to show us what we see in them. And that's one day I really had to check with my youngest one, especially because he's a Pisces. And I would have him vacuum in his room and he would go like he would not do it in a row. Like there was like, I tried to like, Honey, you need to do it in line. So you get every square inch of this room. And he would just vacuum it like a zig zag and, you know, whatever. I didn't tell him he was wrong. I just. Okay, That's the way he's going to do it. And he'll figure it out eventually, you know? And so why do we have to, you know, shame our kids and tell them they're doing it wrong? You know, I tried to explain, you know, we got to show our kids how to do it, but he wasn't going to do it. He's going to do it his way. And so I knew that about him. But I really had to I had beliefs about him that were my own and I really had to censor myself and not project that onto him because every single one that I had of him, like for for exists when he was ready for getting a cell phone, in my mind he was going to be so response was going to lose it. He you know I'm not sure I should get him a really nice phone. Maybe I'll give him a play phone and see if he can take care of it. And then the that was all in my head. I didn't follow through with that. I got him a nice phone and he knew more where his phone was than I did.
Lindsey Vestal You know?
Lynn Schulte So I realized the projection that I had of my son in my head that I never verbalize to him and he never proved me right. Right of that that limitation that I saw in him. And so thank God and thank God I never verbalized it because then he would have. And so I really hope, you know, I think that's conscious parenting, that's being conscious of your own biases, beliefs and, you know, opinions about your kids. And if you can hold them back and not project them onto your kid, then your kid is free to be the beautiful, amazing young man that my boys are today. And both of my boys have their own unique personalities and I absolutely adore who they are and I know that they are them true selves because they have the freedom to become that. And that requires a lot of us as parents to do our own work and to check our biases, check our beliefs about our kids and not project them onto them. Is so important. So, so important. I almost want to write a parenting book. Lindsey You just.
Lindsey Vestal Think I have so many little.
Lynn Schulte Bits of wisdom that I want to share, you know, with new parents and to just help these kids. And here's another another huge piece of that is the control We all want to control our kids. And I and you know, my sons were my greatest teachers because you know what? They wouldn't let me control them. My youngest, especially he I live in Colorado where it gets -30, you know, not minus, but it gets under 30 degrees often throughout the wintertime. And he would never wear a coat. And so I you know, every day at the door, I would hold his coat and go, you know, here, take this is God. Now, I don't want it now. I don't want it. And I would have an argument with him. And finally, one day I'm like, why am I forcing him to do this? And I realized that it was because I didn't want to be seen as a bad parent. And so it was my fear of being, you know, about seeing as a bad parent that was wanting me to control my kid. And you know what? Nobody said anything to me. I thought his teachers would think, you know, and maybe they did. But who cares? My kid had the autonomy. And you know what? There's natural consequence.
Lindsey Vestal Right?
Lynn Schulte If the kid is cold enough, he will wear a jacket. But you have to understand, he was in a t shirt, short sleeved t shirt and shorts when I sent him off to school every day in the wintertime. So I'm sure those parents and teachers had a lot to say about me, but I never heard it. And you know what I would say, Mike? I choose my kids is choosing that. So you got to stand strong in your own convictions, but really pay attention to why are you controlling your kid? What is it that you don't want to feel? And that's why I think we control, because we don't want to feel something. And to me it was I didn't want to be embarrassed about what other parents would think. And if you let that go, you let your kid be free to be who they want to be. So control is such a huge, huge piece of of our society. And I see it all the time with the clients laying on my table. Like they got to control everything. And sometimes that's a form of safety. Feeling safe and secure. But a lot of times I just question my clients and is like, Look, the next time you're trying to control someone, see what you're trying not to feel. And can you explore that more and see is it really worth the battle? Because nobody likes to be in control. Especially kids. So sorry.
Lindsey Vestal I will sign up for that book when it's coming out.
Lindsey Vestal You heard it here, folks. So this parenting book is I mean, as we as we do this podcast, I've got a.
Lynn Schulte Lot of books I need to write, but.
Lindsey Vestal I have a quick question.
Lindsey Vestal Do how do your boys feel about the word energy now?
Lynn Schulte I you know what? That's a good question. I'll ask them at Thanksgiving time.
Lindsey Vestal There you go again.
Lynn Schulte I don't think they're as opposed to it, but I don't you know, they still like it's so funny. My my older son is in coding like he does all this coding and and he's got his computer set up with all those lines. And I look at that. It's all Greek to me. And I. And I laugh and I'm like, You know what? What I see on that that computer there is probably the same way you feel about the body. You know, he goes, he loves that. And he goes, Mom, it's a puzzle. And I go, I think the body is a puzzle, too. And I love that. But neither of my boys have a zero interest in health care and and the body. And so that, you know, that's fine.
Lindsey Vestal That's a slippery slope.
Lynn Schulte Going into business. So.
Lindsey Vestal You know, hearing you talk about, you know, how you felt with regarding your son's as well as what you thought people might think about you makes me think about an episode that came out right before before yours. Lynn on the podcast, I think it's the title of something like What if my Client isn't Ready to commit to Pelvic health? And it was inspired by a mentorship session that I had with one of my students where she was projecting before any eval that this person couldn't believe she was there. Thought, What am I committing to? How many sessions do I need to come? Am I really ready for this? Am I really going to get better? And I think we've all been in that situation where we think that's what's that's the conversation in the head of the client across from us. And so very similar to what you talked about here, We just kind of talked about, well, since we never really know, we never really know if that teacher is saying, can you believe when Sun doesn't have his jacket on? We're never really going to know. And so showing up as our best self with our best assumption is only going to be the breakthrough or become that session that we were putting our intention into. We want it to be a good session. And so if we assume anything else, it can become anything else. And so very, very similar to what you just said, I, I want to relate that back to, you know, being a public health practitioner or anyone that provides care, We will often create stories for any number of reasons. And so thank you for bringing this back to parenting because it can show up in so many aspects of our life.
Lynn Schulte That's a little. Lindsay And that actually the projection that's projecting on to someone else what we think or you know, or we're assuming that this other person is thinking or feeling that way actually really goes hand in hand with our shadow work. So the information or the things that we believe about ourselves that we really don't want to know. So it's that hidden in that subconscious mind projection and shadow work go hand in hand. And that's why it's so important for us to really know what's in our shadow. You know, for me, the shadow was, what are other people going to think about me? Right. That's why I was trying to control my kid. That was the shadow piece. And luckily, I was able to identify the projection or the control. Right. To me, the projection came across as control, but the projection could be what we're projecting on to our clients. But if can we get curious with that and go underneath that, what's really at the bottom of that? What's the shadow piece within you that is causing you to have that projection? And when we can identify that and then heal it, we no longer have those projections. And that is what I love, love working with. And I cover we go into that in depth in my birth healing intensive program. It's all about helping clients or helping practitioners to show up more powerfully in their sessions so that we do all that, so that we're aware of those projections, or that we can stop projecting and be more solid here in who we are and how we're showing up as that practitioner.
Lindsey Vestal Now, this intensive, it's coming up in 2024, right, Lynn?
Lynn Schulte Yes. Yes. The program will start February 1st. We're ending enrollment for that January 15th so you can sign up to join. It's a nine month program. Wow. That I put together. And it's really a deep dive into healing yourself. And as you're doing that, you're learning the skills to then use to help with your clients as well. So you'll be able to use these skills on yourself and with your clients. And it's it's it's an it's it's an amazing program. I'm super excited about it. It's going to be done mainly online and will there will be weekly videos, educational pieces, units to go through and then we'll meet together once a month for a group call to practice the skills that we learn that month. And then we will do a live today event at the end of it to kind of wrap up and practice the skills and working with each other hands on. So you'll actually learn how to work with someone at a distance and also how to work with someone hands on and helping them to shift the things that are being held in their body. The tissues that don't want to let go, the muscles that won't let go. There's usually something deeper being held in there. And in this program I talk about the seven different things that could be causing that muscle to not want to let go or a blockage of energy that just won't let go. Like, how can we explore that? What could it be? You learn how to do all of that and we also learn how to increase your intuition. You know, we talked about how I allowed the intuition to guide me and into finding all these things. It's really about allowing your intuition to get stronger so that it can guide you more in your sessions. I think that is I don't think it's about going and learning more coursework because if you just let your intuition do it tells you what what needs to happen. So that's that's a huge, huge piece of it. It's also about developing really good therapeutic presence, being being that calm centered person that a client can resonate off of, you know, how babies, babies resonate off of their mamas and can calm based on their mom. If mom is agitated, baby's going to be agitated. If mom's calm and centered baby can then come to that. We as therapists need to offer that same presence so our clients can find that within themselves. And so we dive into all that. So there's a ton of great stuff in that birth healing intensive program, but the projection is huge and so important.
Lindsey Vestal That sounds so incredibly comprehensive and I love that it's happening over nine months in the sense that we're sort of giving.
Lindsey Vestal Giving birth to ourselves.
Lindsey Vestal Exactly. Who go through so many ups and downs. I imagine that nine month of really being able to to also process along with clients and in our parenthood and any other of the relationships that we have, and to come back to the group and share that and grow with that, it sounds so thoughtful. And where can people find you? Where can they learn about I know you've got many other programs besides this one that's coming up. Where can people learn more about you?
Lynn Schulte So Institute for Birth Income is the website and there's a whole top menu for birth healing. Intensive is the nine month program that I was just talking about. So you can go there and learn more about that. There is an application you need to fill out to apply to make sure that this program is the right fit for you. And then all my life courses, I have online courses, life courses, all of that. I have podcast as well. And we need to get you on mind. Lindsey And podcasts and blog posts and all of that is on the website.
Lindsey Vestal So fantastic. Well, I will include all that in our show notes. And then I just really want to thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us today. And just for, for really helping occupational therapy practitioners to thrive and to feel at home, you've you've always done that for me, and I know you do that for so many in our community. So we are so grateful for you.
Lynn Schulte Thank you, Lindsey, so much. I'm so grateful for all that you do in leading OTs and Pelvic health. It's. It's been amazing to watch your growth and journey over the years from when we met back in 2018. We've both been doing amazing things. So congratulations to you and thank you for all the hard work that you put out into the world too.
Lindsey Vestal Thanks for listening to another episode of OTs and Pelvic health. If you haven't already, hop onto Facebook and join my group OTs for Pelvic health, where we have thousands of OTs at all stages of their pelvic health career journey. This is such an incredibly supportive community where I go live each and every week. If you love this episode, please take a screenshot of this episode on your phone and posted to IG Facebook or wherever you post your stuff and be sure to tag me and let me know why you like this episode. This will help me to create in the future what you want to hear more of. Thanks again for listening to the OTs and Pelvic health podcast.
