Standing In Clarity By Finding Your Ideal Client with Dr. Betsy Decker

More info about my guest, Dr. Betsy Decker.
Flagstaff Birth Collective
Where to find her on social:
IG @drbetsydeckerdc  and @flagstaffbirthcollective

If you would like to connect with perinatal and pediatric chiropractors in your area you can search the "find an ICPA chiropractor" area on the ICPA website. 

• OT Pioneers: Intro to Pelvic Floor Therapy  opens Sept 16-20, 2024
• Introducing the Functional Pelvic Practitioner Levels and Certification - for OTPs Craving a Structured and Recognized Path to Specialize in Pelvic Health
• Learn more about the Body Ready Method Pro training here.

Doug Vestal (my husband) supports OTPs start their own private pay practices. You can learn more here. 

____________________________________________________________________________________________
Pelvic OTPs United - Lindsey's off-line interactive community for $39 a month!
Inside Pelvic OTPs United you'll find:​

• Weekly group mentoring calls with Lindsey. She's doing this exclusively inside this community. These aren't your boring old Zoom calls where she is a talking head. We interact, we coach, we learn from each other.
  ​
• Highly curated forums. The worst is when you post a question on FB just to have it drowned out with 10 other questions that follow it. So, she's got dedicated forums on different populations, different diagnosis, different topics (including business). Hop it, post your specific question, and get the expert advice you need.

More info here. Lindsey would love support you in this quiet corner off social media!

Transcript

Lindsey Vestal My guest today is Dr. Betsy, who is a prenatal, postpartum and pediatric chiropractor for 24 years and a birth doula for almost 20. She loves blending these two professions to better care for all the people she sees through her career. She has also sought out to collaborate with like minded practitioners from different professions. In doing so, she sees how people's health improves faster and in a more complete way. She has practiced in Colorado, Alaska and now is in Flagstaff, Arizona. She is a co-founder of the Flagstaff Birth Collective, a multidisciplinary wellness center for perinatal and pediatric care. Let's get into today's chat. 

Lindsey Vestal I am so thrilled to have you on my podcast. I have to say a Very unique thing about this conversation is the fact that.   had the privilege of meeting you in person, and we went on a beautiful walk Through Buffalo Park here in Flagstaff, Arizona together. And so it is So awesome to be Interviewing someone finally on my podcast who's actually in the Same town as we did the conversation. So thank you for that. And for being here today. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Well, thank you so much, Lindsey. This is such an honor to be on your podcast and connect with you and connect with your listeners and just continue to build communities. So thank you so much for having me here. 

Lindsey Vestal In terms of building community, I have to tell you, that is something that really stood out to me in the myriad of times that we've had the pleasure of interacting. And that's really why I was so compelled to have you as a guest today as Oates. I think we really have a strong desire to build community both within our profession and in a cross-disciplinary manner, and you really exemplify that. And so I'm excited to share this with my listeners today. Just all of the incredible projects, your incredibly beautiful, compassionate approach to care and to collaboration. So I'm excited to highlight that today. I also want to take a very quick step back and do a quick nod to actually how we met to begin with and how we found out we were in the same town. 

Lindsey Vestal Yeah, that was part of you were part of the body that did training. 

Lindsey Vestal And I met faculty there sharing some some information about Pelvic health and the pelvic floor for the incredible cohorts that go through. I think I'm at the start of my third or fourth year being faculty there, and I was leading an experiential learning lab, helping you all find your own pelvic floor and Qs to help your clients find their pelvic floor. And I think I had mentioned something about it's snowing that morning in Flagstaff or snow snowing in Arizona. And you even. Are you going. 

Lindsey Vestal To Flagstaff Because because as you know, in Arizona, there's nothing outdoors where we experience snow. So you knew that, right? So true. Yeah. Yeah, that's so true. 

Dr. Betsy Decker And, you know, I think, you know, you had mentioned that you were in New York City and then you moved to Paris and then in Flagstaff or to Arizona. And then when you mentioned something about snow, I was like, she's got to be in Flagstaff. So I immediately reached out and I was like, you know what? Let's let's connect, let's, you know, build relationship. And, and yeah, it was just it was just really fun connection to just reach out that way. So yeah. 

Lindsey Vestal I mean it's like a big Town and. 

Dr. Betsy Decker So no, it's not. 

Lindsey Vestal Pretty. And so I just got to meet each other in person after that So I'm grateful for that. Yeah. 

Lindsey Vestal I would love to know a little bit more about your work as a jeweler and a chiropractor here in Flagstaff. I've already shared your bio, so, you know, our listeners have a little bit of sense of your work. I love to know, like, who are your who are your clients? Who do you love to treat? Tell us a little bit more about your work, please. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Thanks. Yeah, I just I think I kind of need to go back to the beginning of why I even got into this work and what was my inspiration and motivation. 

Lindsey Vestal And it comes. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Back way back to when I was 18 and My Sister had her first baby, and I was at her birth and this was she was in New York City and she was surrounded by midwives. And it was an impactful, amazing experience that, you know, as an 18 year old, I just carried. It has carried through the rest of my life. It really was one of those like touchpoints where it just shifted the trajectory. And I knew I wanted to do something within health care. And that moment really helped to kind of mold my direction of where I was going to go and got into chiropractic and really have loved that field of manual medicine and working hands on with people And really Creating change within the body. And and then, you know, in the back of my mind, I always kind of had that little nugget of of working with pregnancy and children and babies. And so that was always a part of the thread as I was going through school and in my post-graduate work. And I went to a seminar really early on in my after I graduated from chiropractic school and it was from Carol Phillips. And if your you or your listeners don't know Carol Phillips She Was one of the co-founders of Spinning Babies. And then she has gone on to develop Her Own method of facial unwinding called the Dynamic Body Balance method. And she has her own training series and things like that. But, you know, way, way back, as a baby chiropractor, I was in front of her and she was talking about caring for pregnant people and being a doula. And it was like my mind exploded. 

I was like, What? I can be adult and go to birth and be a chiropractor and do both and blend these things. It was like this gigantic light bulb went off and I was like, Yes. Tell me more. How can I do this? And so pretty soon after I did, I do the training, started going to some births. Another, like, you know, impactful meeting was with the author Pam England, who is from Birthing from Within. She wrote a book called Birthing from Within and has a whole chapter education series about this method of birthing from within and somehow, you know, somehow assume there's, you know, amazing how things line up. I was sitting down for tea with her, and it was one of those conversations that I'll never forget. And it was forever ago. And it was all about like this confirmation of, yes, you can be a doula and be a chiropractor and, you know, create community. And, you know, it just was one of those moments of of really that confirmation that, yes, I'm on the right path. And so within chiropractic, there are specializations that people can do. There's a sports specialization like a certification. There's radiology, there's. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Functional. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Medicine. And within that there's a prenatal postpartum and pediatric certification. And so I started that certification process. It's a pretty long process. I think it' 18 Seminars and it takes a while to go through. And there's a rigorous exam. And so I started kind of making my way through that process and integrating that information into my practice as I was practicing in Boulder, Colorado. And since that point, you know, just continuing to like gather little nuggets from all different types of seminars like the Body Ready Method program, which I just completed, and the spinning babies over practitioner and, and kind of going even outside of the chiropractic field to gather even more information. And so now, you know, really where I am today is is wearing both hats, the hat of a dula and the hat of a chiropractor. And it's really pretty impossible to take those hats off and just be chiropractor. Just be a dula like when I'm in front of my chiropractic patients, you know, I'm thinking about what, you know, if I'm working with a pregnant person, you know, what are these patterns that I'm noticing within their body? And You know. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Yes, we're working on balancing those patterns and trying to kind of really create a lot of balance. But you know what? If they're going into their birth with some of these patterns and what can we Do to Help support the birth process? And so I might talk about, you know, different laboring positions that might be helpful to create space for baby to move into during the birth process. Or let's say I'm at a birth. Asadullah And there is a stall. And, you know, we're wondering. You know, how Can we help support This Baby moving through this certain part of the pelvis? And so like You know Putting my biomechanical brain on and thinking about like, how can we create space for this baby To Navigate through the pelvis? And so, like, that's where the blending of those two fields come together. And and, you know, as you can imagine, that's just what really, like Lights Me up in my birth nerd kind of way. So Yeah, I love. 

Lindsey Vestal That. And I. Gosh, there's so much to what you said, Betsy, I, I have never met a combination of a chiropractor and a dual. And I think that when I discovered that about you, I was really. I knew there was a story there. You know, I knew that there was this passion that had compelled you. And also, knowing what I know about body ready method and spinning babies like it. Yes. It's about that pattern recognition. 

Lindsey Vestal How you can empower through the journey of being pregnant and postpartum. Right? It's not just like a one stop fix. It really is behavioral approaches and sort of just body awareness and kind of stepping into that somatic sense of self. And so I think that is so beautiful. And I really also resonated with what you shared regarding that confirmation when when you when you met that person where you were like, I can do this. And I, I have my own version of that story and I feel like so many of us do where, you know, we have these threads like it started when you were 18 and it just kind of continued to grow. And you have this inkling. And then when this green light happens, it's like, this is my future. You know, it's it, you know, not quite like a sunshine ray, you know Shining down on you, but kind of it Is, you know, because, yeah, this is the door I want to open. This is the path I want to go down. And so I just want to stand back and just say how precious I am of you sharing that story and just knowing that about your experience and how you really found home. Like I really I really sense that in you. This is your life's work. And that's really been one I believe that's going to inform the rest of our conversation in terms of this approach that you have to incredible abundance mindset and collaboration and community. Before we get a little bit more into that, I just have a quick question in terms of, you know, you had mentioned how you can't separate the two hats, you know, between being a dual and a chiropractor. If you had to ballpark how many clients you do share those responsibilities with, you are there. Dula And you have been or will be their chiropractor at some point. What would you ballpark that number to be? 

Dr. Betsy Decker That's a really interesting question. All I know almost all of my Do Dula clients are chiropractic patients. It's very rare that I have a dula client that I'm not seeing in the Office for Chiropractic Care. And I really prefer that because I get to know their. We get to know each other really well. 

Dr. Betsy Decker You know, we have. 

Dr. Betsy Decker That hands on experience that, you know, is is really beneficial for entering into the birth space. And so it's it's pretty rare that I am going to a birth and working with them, you know, hands on for the first time at their birth. And then I have yeah, of course quite a few chiropractic patients that I'm not there do it because I can't be the Dula for everybody. I can only take a couple of clients a month just based on my Practice with the chiropractic side of things. And so, yeah, so I would say yeah, to answer your question, I almost all of my dual clients are chiropractic patients and that's such a benefit. 

Lindsey Vestal Yeah, for me, for sure. Yeah. You're lucky. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Yeah, it's really fun. It's really fun. 

Lindsey Vestal Can you tell us a little bit more about the Flagstaff Birth Collective? How were you involved? Like, you know, how does all that work? Because I want to segway a little bit more into kind of what I'm dying. The highlight is, you know, your collaborative approach and everything. And I, I feel like so much of what I've learned about you kind of kind of originates from there. So tell us a little bit l More about. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Like, thanks so much for asking. Yeah, we are really proud of what we've created here in Flagstaff with the Birth collective. So what you can kind of imagine is that it is a like a wellness center for perinatal and early childhood care. What we have to offer at the collective. We have a home birth midwife, lactation consultant. Acupuncture Pelvic health PTA Pediatric PTA, Massage therapist. Mental health counselor. Nutritionist. We have person who does women's circles. We have other classes like music classes and breastfeeding support group and postpartum support group. And there's always some like events and things that we're kind of adding in there too. But that's kind of the core. And it all started with working at the we used to have a birth center in town, and when that birth center closed, four of us from the birth center stayed together and created. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Flagship birth collective. And our vision has been to have all of these providers under the same roof. And, you know, you think about how busy pregnancy is and postpartum time is, you know, when you're parenting babies and young children, having a place that is like a one stop shop has been really a game changer for efficiency. Honestly. You know, we have lots of people who will You know, see The midwife and then, you know, have acupuncture or You know Go in for lactation support and have an adjustment or whatever it might be like, you know, sometimes three things within the hospice. We call that the trifecta visit. So so anyway, anything that we can do to make it more simple has been really wonderful. And one of the things that. 

Dr. Betsy Decker We've Been blown away by that. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Mean, I guess if I really sat back and thought about it, I would have thought like, of course this is going to happen. But like we've been really blown away by the community that it has created. So this has become a a place for new parents to come and build friendships and and get support and, you know, and just have that like one thing that day to like, get them out of the house to, you know, just to, to socialize with other other new parents and and have that commonality as well as, you know, just that idea that, you know, normalization that this is everyone's going through this this is you know, challenges that you're having are probably challenges that this other person is having. 

Dr. Betsy Decker And when we. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Normalize that, then, you know, maybe there's some laughter about it. Maybe there's just this moment of like, okay, I'm not alone in this. I have you know, I have this friend now who I met, you know, with the breastfeeding group. And now, yeah, we. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Are. 

Dr. Betsy Decker We're in this together. So I think that that's been really amazing, like from the community side of things and the other like the flip side of it has been the collaboration between the practitioners and that has been also. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Like we, we. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Kind of thought like, we'll build this and we'll just kind of like, you know, this is, this seems like a great idea. This will like, you know, we'll have this collaboration and we'll co-create and, and. And put our heads together about things. But it has been even bigger than that. You know, just in the way that people are improving in their health and, you know, more completely and quickly. And yeah, so that's been that's been really fun to, you. 

Lindsey Vestal Know, I mean, it's a dream. It's a dream from a client perspective. It's a dream from a practitioner perspective. Like there is nothing better than that team approach where you can complement each other's services and like you said, learn along the way. It's like it's like a study group, if you will, as well, where you're just you're continuing to build in that lifelong learning, which I think is is so critical to to so many of us in this field. I'm curious, like you had mentioned, the myriad of providers that are there, which just sound exceptional. How did you all find one another? You know, do you want we need a dietician, we need a pelvic floor therapy, you know, all come together. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Well, I'll tell you that our pelvic pelvic health therapist. I heavily recruited her. 

Dr. Betsy Decker This? Yeah, I. Yeah, I. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Yeah, we've. We have been collaborating whenever I go to like when I set up a new practice in a new area because I've moved around a couple of times. You know, one of the first things I do is like, okay, where where am I? Pelvic health like health people, like, where are they? 

Dr. Betsy Decker And I. 

Dr. Betsy Decker You know, I just have worked together with them throughout my whole career and we dovetail so well with our services that we provide, and it's just essential. And so, so she was practicing and she has a practice, you know, within Flagstaff at another location, and she comes to our location one day a week. And so so I would say she was very heavily recruited. I was like, please, please, please come to our collective and be a part of us here and and others. It just. 

Dr. Betsy Decker We we. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Know we knew we really wanted a pediatric PTA. We knew we wanted a massage therapist. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Yeah, we. 

Dr. Betsy Decker You know, we just kind of had our dream list. And the last provider that we just recently added was our mental health counselor. 

Dr. Betsy Decker And we have. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Been trying to fill that piece since we opened and we are thrilled to have her in-house. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Now. 

Dr. Betsy Decker And she started a postpartum support group which has been really well-received and essential. I am just cannot stress that enough. So we're yeah, so we're, yeah, it was really kind of like, okay, what's our dream team? Who can we like fill these spaces? And I feel like we're really complete right now. 

Lindsey Vestal Phenomenal. Like, I don't even know the words. Like I am well out of my childbearing years, but now I would wish that I wasn't. It's harder with your group. My God. That's for normal. Yeah. One of the things that that I talk a lot about with my students and also my husband, who helps OT start their own private pay practices. Doug Vestal We talk a lot about this sense of building that synergy, building that whether or not we share an office space, which is, I think, a beautifully rare opportunity for everybody. But even if we don't have that ability, I know in New York City, I didn't have that ability. Would you mind talking a little bit about, you know, let's say there was a pelvic floor OT in your community that has this desire to connect with you, has this desire to build their own version of this team that you've assembled here in Flagstaff. What would you recommend they do to to make that touchpoint with you? You know, like what are some steps, some non intimidating steps that you would welcome that they that could kind of help build this rapport in this relationship? I have some super exciting news for you. O.T. pioneers ensure a pelvic floor therapy is opening for enrollment January 13th through the 17th, 2025. This is your chance to dive into a 100% online course with lifetime access. You'll get five group mentoring calls with me and two free months. Inside our off social media private community Pelvic OTP's United. Plus, we're hosting an optional in-person lab in Cleveland on February 21st and 22nd. Please come join over 1500 other OTs who have already taken the leap. I can't wait to see you inside OT Pioneers Enrollment January 13th through 17th 2025. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Yeah, that's such a great question. 

Dr. Betsy Decker And I you. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Know, I really love also talking about like the business side of things, you know, and that collaboration and networking and things like that. And, and when I think about my entire career, it really goes back to like the very beginning in Boulder and, you know, was right out of school. And I was like trying to build my practice and I was having coffee dates with a provider or going out to lunch or, you know, going to their office, seeing where they practice, having them come to my office, things like that. And that was great and really fun and not very efficient. And and I don't discourage people from doing that. But what ended up happening is I created this organization or group, I guess, to be less official called Bellies Birth and Babies, which was a just an opportunity for like minded professionals within all the different fields that support bellies, birth and babies. And we would meet like quarterly and have time to network, have time to just kind of meet each other. And then we always had 2 or 3 presenters, you know, just like ten minutes each, just to learn more in depth about each provider. And I was like, this is way more efficient, you know, like, let's get everyone in the same room and we can like meet and collaborate and talk. And it was so neat because. 

Dr. Betsy Decker People. 

Dr. Betsy Decker I could overhear people's conversations saying, like, I have referred to you for ten years and I have never met you face to face. And so just creating an opportunity for people to gather in the same. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Space. 

Dr. Betsy Decker And talk about how we can work together. You know, I think about us as practitioners oftentimes thinking. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Either like, you know, putting. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Your head down or blinders up. And we're just like, I'm just seeing my patients here in my little office and and just forgetting about like, you know, there's these other providers providing like similar work but collaborative in a way that this patient is going to improve that much more. And so when we can learn more in depth about what other practitioners in other fields are doing, then we can really like put our heads together and for the better for the patient. And that's what it's all about anyway, right about like, how can we elevate this person's health in a way that empowers them and allows them to like fully? 

Dr. Betsy Decker He'll get to that. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Next level of what their goal is. And and oftentimes it's through collaborative care. It's, you know, it's not just like, you know, just pelvic health just, you know, chiropractic, just this, just that, you know, it's it's when we can really work together. So I think if if a new O.T. was. You know, wanting to connect with people. You can do that one at a time. You know, you can just pick a person, have a goal of like, I'm going to meet one new person each week. And that's actually what I did when I was first in practice. I wrote down goals like, I'm going to meet one new person each week. And then if you're feeling like, okay, this is not very efficient, then you create a space where them where they can all come to the same place and and really like have that more in-depth relationship. And that's how it's about building relationships. 

Lindsey Vestal I have to say, we have so. 

Lindsey Vestal Much in common. Like I felt this when we went. 

Lindsey Vestal On our walk. There was like a couple of stories you shared about like, that moment for you and you knew you wanted to serve pregnant people. And I had a similar experience. But this is another overlap that I hadn't realized. Dr. Betsy, which is, you know, that group bellies, birth and babies that you talked about. Well, there's this podcast from a yoga practitioner in New York City. It's called Yoga Birth and Babies. 

Lindsey Vestal Cute. And so this is where the. 

Lindsey Vestal Similarity starts because her the podcast host and yoga instructor who had a yoga practice on the Upper West Side in Manhattan, hers and her name is Deb Frankenberg, and she was the first person who, gosh, over a decade ago kind of opened up my my eyes to this idea of collaboration and then that segway into me finding a prenatal perinatal collective that had birth photographers, fitness instructors, childbirth educators, pelvic floor pets. I was the first O.T., you know, anyone that that wanted to serve a pre and postnatal person to any capacity. And that's where my mind was blown in this sense of we're all together. It's a sufficient space. I want to refer to a newborn photographer just as much as I want to do someone to a fitness instructor who I know is going to take excellent care of of my client. Right. And so it was this meeting of minds and synergy, and then that spun into me developing a similar group just for people interested in the pelvic floor. And we also had doulas, childbirth educators, midwives, fitness instructors, you know, the gamut. But it's just so interesting because when you mentioned belly birth and babies, it made me immediately think of where when I was introduced to this idea of collaborative care and like what you said, if it efficiency, because at the end of the day, you know, time is one of our most precious commodities. And I think that that there is this almost synergistic explosive energy when we all get together and when those practitioners are in the same room, you're not wondering, are they having to be half out? Because there's so many times I have met one on one with providers where I'm like, I can sense they're wondering when the meeting is going to be over. I could tell this wasn't a fruitful endeavor. We probably weren't going to end up finding alignment and referring to one another, whereas it's almost a filtering factor that when we all come together in this in this meeting of sorts, belly birth baby could be that perinatal connection I talk to you about. It's almost like you've already got together people who are interested in collaboration, interested in this model of care, in this abundance mindset that you're referring to. So I love that. 

Lindsey Vestal And would you. 

Lindsey Vestal Say for OTS, who maybe don't think that's in their community, haven't discovered yet, would you encourage them to start one of those and where they are? 

Dr. Betsy Decker Absolutely. I think this this was not like this, you know, novel idea that like, I just like, I'm the only person who came up. 

Dr. Betsy Decker You know. 

Dr. Betsy Decker This is this was something that was very simple to just create a space and, you know, get the word out and and and people showed up because because people are craving this, too. You know, people are craving connection. People are craving, you know, how can we build relationships. 

Dr. Betsy Decker You know. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Even they're wanting to build their own practice. And so they're wanting to, you know, to network with other providers so that they can receive some referrals and also give them out. I just want to blow your mind one more second. 

Dr. Betsy Decker And. 

Dr. Betsy Decker One of your previous guest on your podcast, Lynn Schultz, he used to go to Belize birth and babies. We know each other from Boulder and she used to go and we, we collaborated a lot when I was practicing there. So I just wanted to blow your mind, just like one more time. My. 

Dr. Betsy Decker God. I was. I know. It's. 

Dr. Betsy Decker It's just funny. Like, you know, when you really start to, like, connect with people, like, just the small world feel that just kind of happens, especially in, in a field like this where it's so specific, you know, we're going to have some overlap. So I thought that was really fun. 

Lindsey Vestal You know, I had, of course, experiences where, yeah, well mentioned. I used to work with this person. But also I just, I just find so much similarities and kind of our journey and our moments and sparks of when you, when you feel aligned on the right path. Because let's, let's be honest, being an entrepreneur, having your own business, you and I both have started over multiple times. That's not easy, you know. And so. 

Lindsey Vestal To, to feel. 

Lindsey Vestal Amongst all of this sort of that current that continues to take you forward and I think we're talking about that in this conversation, those various moments throughout our careers where it was like, I'm going forward no matter what, and sort of these are my tenants, my ethics or my my values. And it's just really it's. 

Lindsey Vestal It's really fun to feel that with yourself. This is this is all. 

Dr. Betsy Decker I wanted to speak to that just for a second to that, you know, I talked about. How like that path just was like, kept being. Yes, yes, yes. And there, of course, were moments where. 

Dr. Betsy Decker You know, there was. 

Dr. Betsy Decker A deviation and and then, of course, correct. And and I think it's so important as practitioners to to really listen to that intuition of how how does this feel? How does this how does this sit in my body? And, you know, my practice right now is is very specific and very focused on pre-natal, postpartum and pediatric. And, you know, of the, you know, 55 year old guy with chronic low back pain contacts, my office, I'm going to send them to another chiropractic. And that right now feels really good. And I, I have that confirmation over and over and over that that this is this is what the, the type of patient that really just lights me up. This is who I want to work with and this is who I want to send to another chiropractor. I feel so good about that. And I've connected with the chiropractors in town here and I've said, Hey, I have patients that contact. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Me that. 

Dr. Betsy Decker I'm going to send to. 

Dr. Betsy Decker You. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Because this is not the demographic that I work with. And so it's also that idea of, you know, when I was first in practice, I would never have done that. I would have been like, Here, here, come to my office, everybody come to my office. I'll take anyone. And and it's this idea of like. 

Dr. Betsy Decker You know, this. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Scarcity mindset of, of just like, if I don't take this patient on, I'll never have another new patient. And it takes some experience and some maturity and time. And I think over time you realize like, wait a second, it does not have to be that way. And the more that you become clear on how you'd like to have your practice and the patients that you'd like to see and how you'd like to set that up, and the more and. 

Dr. Betsy Decker More refined. 

Dr. Betsy Decker And clear you can become, you know, that's really what leads itself to a lot of joy and happiness. And in practice as a practitioner, you know, in comparison to burnout, you know, I think that if I were to have just continued the path of accepting anyone in my practice, even though I wanted to be focused on prenatal program in pediatric care. 

Dr. Betsy Decker I know for. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Sure that I would be less healthy in my practice. And, you know, like this feeling of just like overwhelm and burnout. 

Lindsey Vestal Thank you so much for saying that, because I really had hoped to touch on that in this conversation. I think that that is so incredibly important. Number one, I want to say that throughout this conversation, it makes it seem like from 18, you knew you wanted to only clearly serve pregnant and postnatal people. And actually through the course of our conversations, I know that's not the case. It was a journey for you. You had inklings, you had touch points. But then you went to school. You know, you did all the things, all the certifications, all the continued study. And even I think when you were in Alaska, perhaps, you know, because of the rural with the rural nature of it. Right. You couldn't just serve pre and post-natal, you were seeing more than that. And so I think with your move after Alaska here to flag, you were really able to step into that in such a large way. And so I just want to point out to the listeners that for you, this was a journey like this, this place where you're at of clarity, of thought and align with your ideal client and who you want to serve that confidence to say, I'm sorry, I'm going to refer you to someone else. Was a journey for you and as you said, a journey of maturity, a journey of fulfillment. And so I want to point that out for anyone who, you know, might be might be struggling or kind of going through something similar. And the other aspect to this, Dr. Betsy, that I'm so impressed with and want to call out is when you then reach out to other chiropractors here in Flagstaff and you say, Hey, I'm going to be sending these clients to you. And by the way, this is who I serve. What happens in that? Even if this wasn't an abundance mindset practitioner or someone who maybe didn't know about you or wouldn't have referred to you, my guess is a lot of them will now, because you're demonstrating, you're sending clients to them and you are. And then they might go, you know, I actually kind of do struggle a little bit with my career post-natal I can serve them. I want to make sure that that. But, but there's someone here in town who's actually sending me clients who I know. That's their sole, their sole focus. And so I believe that it even creates a more focused practice for you when you demonstrate that. Because I did. 

Lindsey Vestal I did. 

Lindsey Vestal The exact same thing. I had clients who, like, I wasn't big into CrossFit, but there was a big CrossFit community where I was living in New York City. And so those clients I knew there was a pelvic floor. P.T. who thrived on that population. And so I met up with her. I started referring to her, and it was that same thing. And then she started referring back to me. So I also think that when we are that model in our community, we stand in clarity for who we want to serve. I do believe it has a ripple effect and it just continues to further demonstrate the value that scarcity doesn't serve. And that alignment with with our values and who lights us up, what clientele lights us up, just continues to grow when we model that. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Yeah. And the abundance mindset, I feel like also really, you know, it tracks. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Yeah. 

Dr. Betsy Decker That the clientele that we are looking for too. So because we're enthusiastic about like, seeing the people that we want to see and then. 

Dr. Betsy Decker You know. 

Dr. Betsy Decker They're telling their friends about that too, and then they're coming in. And so it's. 

Dr. Betsy Decker You know, when. 

Dr. Betsy Decker You can really just be grounded in that clarity of who like the practice you want to have and the patients that you want to. 

Dr. Betsy Decker See. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Just really trusting that that will also then attract. And I'm not saying you just sit in your practice and like hope someone comes in, you know, you do have to like get out there and get the word out. But but there is that that patient referral generator that also happens that, you know, you take amazing care of the people that are in front of you and they will also tell their friends and family. 

Dr. Betsy Decker That's right. You know, one. 

Lindsey Vestal Of the things that really grew my practice in New York City were community workshops. I mean, there have been any thread or commonality for you, especially when you maybe came to a new town or, you know, in some of the moves that you've done, like, was there anything that you did from a outreach perspective that you felt really got your name out there? 

Dr. Betsy Decker Boy, that's a really great question. You know, I think there was definitely the collaboration with with other providers. Like I've I've talked about, you know, I found that some of the community outreach, I'm not sure if it really lands, you know like I've done some of those where it's, you know, specific to pregnancy event. I'm like, great, This is this is my this is my demographic. And, and does it really translate to. 

Dr. Betsy Decker New. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Patients coming in the door? And I would say not always. And I hate to. You like a little bit of a Debbie Downer about that. 

Dr. Betsy Decker But you know. 

Dr. Betsy Decker You put so much effort into an event or, you know, some sort of community outreach where maybe you have a table at something and. It's hard to say, but I think when you do multiple things like that and you know, you have a social media presence and you have. 

Dr. Betsy Decker You know. 

Dr. Betsy Decker You're taking amazing care of your your patients and they are telling their friends and you're asking them to tell your friends. I think that's you know, that was definitely something that took some practice and confidence to. 

Dr. Betsy Decker You know. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Someone's in front of you saying, like, I thank you so much. I feel so much better. You've changed my life. You are, you know, like they're just like gushing about you. That's your moment to say. I am so glad that you are feeling better. That has been my goal, to get you to X, Y, Z goal or whatever it might be. Who else you know that could benefit from my care? You know, Do you know anybody else who's pregnant right now? You know. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Or do you know anyone. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Who just had a baby? And, you know. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Maybe you're. 

Dr. Betsy Decker They're noticing X, Y, Z with with how their their baby is functioning or, you know, their baby's range of motion or whatever it might be or, you know what I mean? Like just giving them very specific things. Or someone texts me and says, you know, like I, I checked in with them. I said, How are you doing after your adjustment the other day? And they say, my goodness, I am feeling so much better. Well, then you send them a little link, say like, Can you review me on Google? You know, and you make a joke about it, like it's not like this so salesy or whatever, but like, Hey, I'm so glad that you are feeling so much better. The best way for me to get my name out there is through Google. Like it really is. Maybe even more so than social media. Like people do a Google search, they read reviews. 

Dr. Betsy Decker They look at your. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Website, things like that. 

Dr. Betsy Decker So every. 

Dr. Betsy Decker So to get back to your original question, I think that it's not just one thing. It's not just one community event. Okay, where are the patients like that is not realistic to say like, I'm just going to do this one community event. 

Dr. Betsy Decker And. 

Dr. Betsy Decker It's going to build my whole practice. It's that event. They hear your name and then this friend over here, you know, has mentioned your name. Or there's a Facebook group of of moms of Flagstaff, which, you know, every community has one of those Facebook. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Groups and. 

Dr. Betsy Decker They're talking about you. 

Dr. Betsy Decker And then, you know, so it's. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Like someone usually has to hear your name a couple times before they take action to actually reach out and. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Schedule. My gosh. 

Lindsey Vestal I really appreciate you bringing up this idea of not being shy of letting your ideal client that you're about to discharge. Know that there's more people they can serve. And I think it's such a like you say, like doctor bit like exactly what you said was so was so interesting. It was like the client is standing in front of you. They're literally telling you you change their life. And we hear this as opposed to like, sure, professionals like we are changing lives and they're sitting there thinking you in earnest. And it does make so much sense. But I have to tell you, like early in my career, I was shy to do that. You know, like my husband, Doug, who at that point wasn't serving notice, was working on Wall Street. Like was saying to me, like, this is that moment like this is when you do a pelvic floor. Topics are so taboo. We're not talking about it enough as a society. Like if you know of anyone that's struggling, you know anyone who's pregnant, like, I'd love to help them on this journey, please think of me. Here's my card. Pass it on. And I was so shy to do that. And then the moment I did, I literally got a call the next week and she said, Client, you know, told, you know, my friend told me about it. And I was like, Well, this works, you know? And it's like, if you're telling people about your favorite hairdresser, you're telling people about, you know, a great workout, like you're sharing this information. But what we're doing as health care professionals is even more transformative. Okay? Don't don't get me wrong. A good haircut is amazing. That chiropractor and good O.T. and good pelvic floor therapy is even more transforming. And so it's like, let's let's recognize that when we're talking to our ideal client, they know another ideal client. And so when we're not shy to to make that ask. And then then you brought up another good point about Google reviews. I do really definitely feel like just sending them a link, letting them know that that trust that they felt in you, you know, can be shared with other people who you'll also give incredible care to is so beautiful and and authentic, right? 

Dr. Betsy Decker Yeah, it is authentic and. 

Dr. Betsy Decker People. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Love to do that. And you just have to ask, you know, it was I 100% agree with you. I was so. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Shy. 

Dr. Betsy Decker To ask. I felt awkward. It was weird like like even though they're standing in front of you telling you how much they appreciate the care, it was so hard to ask. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Them. 

Dr. Betsy Decker To like write a view or something like that. But but when I started doing it and started asking people, they were like, I would love to leave a review. And then the reviews they leave are just like, so. Beautiful and like talk about like. 

Dr. Betsy Decker If. 

Dr. Betsy Decker You're having like a little bit of like a down day, like, just go read your reviews. Like, my goodness, like that. It's not that. That's why I do that. But it's also like, wow. my goodness. Like, that's really cool. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Lindsey Vestal Yes, you're right. And you know, what you just said was really critical. They want to do it. They love to do it. They do. But I think. Why? So people might say, well, why do I have to ask if they love to do it right? And the thing is that people forget people forget that you're a small business, probably a solo practitioner. They're just so happy with the care. They're not thinking about the business side of things. And as the business owner, as the entrepreneur, it's our job to do that. To completely, if you will. And so I just want to bring that up that that may not be on their mind. They might think she's got a thriving business. You know, it's like, well, actually, hey, by the way, you know, I love I love helping people with similar situations as you. And so if if it makes sense, please bring my neighbor up is just a small thing to do to kind of help them remember and put them into that that that aspect of your business. Small, gentle, non-intrusive, just dropping it out there is just such a beautiful thing. So I'm so glad you brought that up. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Yeah. 

Lindsey Vestal Is there anything else that you can think of that you. Any other projects you're working on? Anything else that you'd like to share with that? With our community? 

Dr. Betsy Decker Well. 

Dr. Betsy Decker One thing I've been working on a lot lately is that I just wanted to share. It's a little off topic, but the Dula group that I work with, Flagstaff Dula is We created the other Dula that the Dula and who started Flexfields. Kristin She and I started a nonprofit called the Flex Upper Support Fund. And we started almost three years ago. Three years ago this month, actually. 

Dr. Betsy Decker And it is so amazing. 

Dr. Betsy Decker So we provide birth and postpartum dula support to families that would otherwise not be able to have access to that support. We were finding, you know, inquiries into Flagstaff. Dula is to have dula support. And you know people asking for sliding scale, asking for a discount, things like that. And and so we just saw that there was a need and, and that has been really rewarding. And so I just wanted to kind of bring that to light as well, that, you know, that there are also other ways that people can give back to their community, you know, outside of their typical field. So, you know, if there's an O.T. that, you know, becomes involved with, you know, like a a partner organization, you know, that there are other ways that we can be giving back. And that has been just really super rewarding. One of the cool aspects of the birth support fund is. 

Dr. Betsy Decker We. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Also mentor new doulas. So the way the program works is a new doula who is recently certified, gets paired with an experience doula, and that's the team that supports the family through the birth support fund. And so the new Dula goes to the birth, but has the mentorship from the Experience doula. And we've found that to be extremely rewarding and really quite necessary because the way that do US certification works is you go to a training over a weekend and then you're done and there's no support system. Well, I mean like very little support system in place for new doulas to find families or to to gather experience. And so much about do live work is about experience. I learn something new at every single birth, and I've been doing it for almost 20 years and every single birth still to this day, I learned something new. So and honestly, like birth is one of the most amazing teachers. And and that could be a whole other podcast. 

Dr. Betsy Decker But but it's yeah, it's. 

Dr. Betsy Decker It's really amazing. But anyway. 

Dr. Betsy Decker So I. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Just wanted to kind of share that, that little side project that I'm involved in and. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Yeah. 

Lindsey Vestal So many things about that. The first thing that comes to mind is what a. 

Lindsey Vestal Beautiful, what a beautiful. 

Lindsey Vestal Way to hold space, not only for a family who wouldn't have the means to have this what I believe is absolutely essential support of a Dula, but also the way you guys have combined it with providing that support for new doulas who, like, as you said, it's a weekend course. They need to gather reps, they need to have experience, especially the seasoned Dula. So you guys are really paying it forward in two ways, which is just to be able to combine those two things. I my mind is blown. The second thing that comes to mind, which we didn't touch on and it's making me think of it now, which is awesome, is that you are private pay here now in Arizona. You haven't always been, but in Arizona you are private pay. And we especially Doug, my husband, gets a lot of questions about, gosh, like if I am private pay, there's a whole subset of the community that I am not serving and I'm at odds with that. Right. And I definitely, too, definitely felt that because I was I've always been private pay when I started my own practice. And so we always talk about sliding scale. We always talk about pro-bono. But what I really love is that you have put together, you and your colleagues have put together like a formal process. And like I said, not only serves the professionals but serves the community in need. That is, yeah, like I said, more formalized. So what I would do is I had certain number of spots on my caseload each month for my sliding scale and pro-bono, but I really like kind of, I guess the formality, for lack of better word, the program, the thoughtfulness that you put in, the structure that you put. 

Lindsey Vestal In to. 

Lindsey Vestal Serve both of those communities with this with this project, it's just gorgeous. 

Dr. Betsy Decker No, thanks. Yeah. I think the the motivation there are several reasons that we started the BR Support Fund, but one of them was we were doing. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Some some. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Sliding scale, some pro-bono work as doulas and we were not able to serve as many people as we wanted to in that way, you know, as you can imagine. Supporting a birth can be, you know, many hours and, you know, pretty exhausting. And and so it's a it's a lot of give. And we were just finding that that that was going to be just not sustainable. And so we really felt like it was important to create a system where we're paying our doulas out of this nonprofit. And that's important too. You know. 

Dr. Betsy Decker That's super important. 

Dr. Betsy Decker So, yeah, it it's it's worked out great. We've been able to receive grants and lots of donations and yeah. 

Dr. Betsy Decker And we're. 

Dr. Betsy Decker We're just really building the awareness within our community so that we can serve some more people. 

Dr. Betsy Decker So yeah. 

Lindsey Vestal Just want to thank you so much Dr. Betsy, for your. Frankness, your earnest, your transparency with all of these all of these topics, because I really see that you're holding space and seeing it from all of the angles, not only as a professional, but as, you know, someone who is a client. Like, it's just it's a really it's really beautiful to witness the thoughtfulness that your career and your career journey has taken on. And so I'm I'm just so grateful to hear your stories to have had this hour with you, to to learn about all of all the projects and all of the thought processes. You know, I feel like we're kind of like going behind the scenes for from entrepreneur to entrepreneur and health care. And thank you for being this this example of what's possible for for us as health care providers. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Thank you so much, Lindsey. It's been such an honor and privilege to be here. 

Dr. Betsy Decker And. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Connect with your listeners. And, you know, I'm really. 

Dr. Betsy Decker Open. 

Dr. Betsy Decker To people reaching out to me if they have like, particular questions about they are wanting to set up something like the Birth collective and how do. 

Dr. Betsy Decker We you know. 

Dr. Betsy Decker How do we do that? Like from the financial perspective and things like that, I'm really open to answering questions from from your listeners too. But thank you so much for this time. It was really fun and I love connecting with you and, and all of our like, crisscross commonalities. 

Dr. Betsy Decker So yeah, so, so lovely over you. Thank you. So we really. 

Lindsey Vestal Appreciate you and your and you being. 

Lindsey Vestal A guest today. 

Outro Thanks for listening to another episode of OTs and Pelvic health. If you haven't already, hop onto Facebook and join my group OTs for Pelvic health, where we have thousands of OTs at all stages of their Pelvic health career journey. This is such an incredibly supportive community where I go live each and every week. If you love this episode, please take a screenshot of this episode on your phone and posted to IG Facebook or wherever you post your stuff and be sure to tag me and let me know why you like this episode. This will help me to create in the future what you want to hear more of. Thanks again for. Listening to the OTs and Pelvic health podcast.