What Does Collaboration Look Like In Pelvic Floor Therapy?

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Transcript

Lindsey Vestal Oh my goodness. I had such a distinct honor to be joined by Dr. Rebeca Graves on the Enhanced Recovery Network, which is a platform that she runs, which are all things advocacy and raising awareness in all of the ways we can not only be better practitioners, but better serve our incredible clients. So for this episode, I'm resharing a conversation that I had with Dr. Segraves. I hope that you enjoy as we talk about the future of pelvic floor therapy. 

Intro New and seasoned OTs are finding their calling in Pelvic health. After all, what's more adult than sex, peeing and poop? But here's the question. What does it take to become a successful, fulfilled and thriving OT in Pelvic health? How do you go from beginner to seasons and everything in between? Those are the questions and this podcast will give you the answers. We are inspired, OTs. We are out of the box, OTs. We are Pelvic health OTs. I'm your host, Lindsey Vestal, and welcome to the OTs and Pelvic health Podcast. 

Rebeca Segraves Hello. I have the pleasure of having the Lindsey Vestal joining me on the Pelvic health network. Lindsey, how are you doing? 

Lindsey Vestal Rebeca, that I am phenomenal. The fact that I can spend this time with you, be a guest on your platform. The honor is all mine. Thank you so much. 

Rebeca Segraves Thank you. I actually preface this conversation today with a post of just reflecting of my own clinical journey and just the conversation of how powerful is going to be today. Because when I was practicing full time in the hospital, my first advocacy, if you can even call it that, I didn't know what I was doing really as an acute care therapist. But when I think of the advocacy that needs to happen around Pelvic health occupational therapy, if if I can date back my advocacy, it was when I was treating patients that I knew would be better suited to have occupational therapy be part of their care team in those patients. Where after cesarean hysterectomy, which I recently wrote about and spoke with Dr. Catherine Fox, a ObGyn maternal fetal medicine specialist who mentioned in her talk with me that if we're not offering occupational therapy services or physical therapy services or nutrition registered dietitian services, then we're actually, you know, we're just serving our patients and providers. And I knew that in 2020. I knew that working with her team that we needed an occupational therapist on board. So when I when I came across your work, Lindsey, I, I knew this conversation was long overdue. I knew we had to have it publicly to really just kind of like, lay it out. What what are the issues and the barriers to occupational therapy services being accessible to patients after surgery after birth with pelvic floor concerns? What are those issues and what can we do about it? 

Lindsey Vestal So it's just a phenomenal conversation. Thank you for having it. Thank you for opening the door to having it because I think until we start to have these conversations, the barriers aren't going to be removed. So I'm looking forward to the dialog and I'm really looking forward, Rebeca, to hearing your perspective on this as well. You know, it's multilayered, it's multifaceted as most interesting problems to solve are. The first thing that comes to mind when you ask that question is, is really that I think people don't know what occupational therapy is. They just it's it's I remember two years into my graduate program, we were still defining for ourselves what we were. And I was a slightly older student. I remember thinking, this is going to be a problem, isn't it? And at that point I knew I wanted to be an pelvic health And so now I'm a double horned unicorn because not many people know what Pelvic health is and people don't know what occupational therapy is. So I think part of it is that brand recognition, just not recognizing, you know, you go down any Main Street USA and there's marquees that say, etc., physical, physical therapy, you don't really see that in O.T.. So it's it's not a common term in most household. I didn't even know what O.T. was. You know, it was about six months before I was applying to graduate programs. I was going to go to be a physical pelvic health physical therapist. I knew my specialty already and I was shadowing, getting my my hours. And and I accidentally got exposed to an O.T. My life changed ever since. So it's I think part of it is the accessibility to of the profession and people just not quite understanding us. 

Rebeca Segraves You know, that's so funny that you say that because I was exposed to occupational therapy. I knew what it was. I actually worked as a as a rehab tech. We weren't P.T. or O.T. techs. We were rehab techs for both disciplines. In my first introduction to Pelvic health, O.T. was with an occupational therapist, really talking in depth about sexual health and sexual function with a woman who had AC6 spinal cord injury, who very much still wanted to have the ability to have children, have the ability to to have sensation with sex. And I'm in this conversation, you know, we were doing peri care and teaching her how to to manage her own peri care. And I'm listening to this occupational therapist explain sexual health and sexual wellbeing and I'm blown away. I knew I wanted to be an occupational therapist. And honestly, the switch happened kind of at the last moment because of the brand recognition that I had the DPT. I wanted to be a doctor. You know, I'm looking back on my practice over the past few years and I'm like, so much in terms of like the, the, the breadth and depth of your scope of practice, the mental health roots. And it's just like, Wow, I really need a trauma informed, you know, education in my pelvic health practice, I really needed that to be the foundation versus the biomechanical model learned in physical therapy school. And now I'm kind of back tracing, but I will not go back to school. I'm done. Lindsey But I did it, you know, and part of the reason why I am just such a proponent for the Autism Pelvic health summit is because I'm learning. I'm learning now things that I wish I would have known early on in my pelvic health practice journey. 

Lindsey Vestal Rebeca Something you said there really struck me, which is this idea that perhaps all pelvic health therapies should start with a trauma informed by a psychosocial approach and build. From there we can get those hands on skills. We can acquire that biomechanical approach. Those of us that find ourselves in the therapy world, I think are inclined to that already kind of learn in that way. However, I think that when we it's so powerful to hear you say that. I think I think I know I believe that deeply in my heart. But to hear someone, someone like you say that a doctorate of physical therapy, someone who is just an absolute visionary and source of light for all of the people you serve, not only the programs you help develop, but all the clients you've had the privilege to interact with and to hear you reframe it that way. I to tell you my heart is singing because I really believe that all health care needs to be trauma informed, of course, but the statistics are just too high for Pelvic health therapist to not be trauma informed, to not come from a nervous and nervous system first approach. So let's say that again loud and clear that is so powerful that you are reexamining your biomechanical training to kind of fitted in to the myriad of tools, right? We're not we don't just practice from one approach. We are not that linear. Thank goodness. Life is not interesting when it's black and white, but it's this mixture and this this beautiful ability to to sit and sit across from the client in front of us. Use therapeutic use of self to decide which tools do we start with providing agency to the client to also help us make that choice. Because you know what? They know their body best. Sometimes they need us to help remind them of that, to be that facilitator. But 100% they know what's best. And if you pause and maybe have that awkward moments when you're waiting for them to answer a question and not jump in with the answer, very often that pause is where that magic happens and they realize she wants me to be to be the agent in my care. Okay, I'm going to have to answer this question before we move on or die. And that's just the stepping stone. That's just the start of their belief again in their body. And this is when real healing occurs. 

Rebeca Segraves So I want to make that tangible because it's so to me, I think that could be missed by so many people. Like what you were just saying, like having a person be an agency, you know, in their own care. And it's top of mind, I have to say. This is with an occupational therapist who is practicing a level one trauma center, and she is interacting with patients with these very, very heavy cases. And she's like, you know what? What what do I do? You know that that's where the question and the training really starts. What do I do with the person who had in our case and in our educational program, we're primarily training occupational physical therapists to see patients in the hospital after birth, any birth outcome. And that question of what do I do really, if it were in a trauma informed lens, would be what not? What do I. You. But the what? Lindsey. 

Lindsey Vestal How do I serve this client in front of me? By just listening. I know that sounds so simple, and I know that sounds. You know, here's the thing. Simple is not a not profound. Simple can still be so profound. And so I think just not coming in with an answer, not coming in with an expectation. You have all that training and it's beautiful and thank goodness for it. But I think sometimes we rush in kind of already ready to fix and solve the problem when sometimes it's as simple as sitting there, you know? And a simple question that comes to mind when you ask that question is just looking looking your client in the eye and simply saying, what does life look like when when, when you're when you solve this problem? What does life look like when you're on the other side of this? I think sometimes when we're entrenched in in an injury, it's really hard to see what's next and what comes after this. And so I think just holding space for a very optimistic, hopeful, joyous question, which is what's next when you meet this goal, starts to help the client imagine and then almost backtrack the steps that it takes to get there. 

Rebeca Segraves Absolutely. And thinking specifically in her case, she was working with a client who showed signs of perinatal mood and anxiety disorders just immediately after birth. And I think of really the trauma informed lens that I want clinicians to really have working with this population. And I realized there's really nothing that exists until the trauma informed pelvic health certification that that you and Laura created. There's there's really no strong foundation, even in both of our our educational kind of journeys as as deputy students and as O.T. students. There's nothing that's preparing them for the trauma that the Pelvic health population brings a lot with their cases. I mean, I, I am on the acute care side of things, but we have people struggling with issues for years and years until they find a pelvic health therapist and then to find a pelvic health therapist that dives right in and starts doing a pelvic floor exam and using a biomechanical model and doesn't stop and pause and listen. That to me can just further exacerbate that trauma. And and really, I mean, I just I have been transformed by this program that you've created because now I'm I'm going back and I'm analyzing a lot of the years of practice, you know, where I've been in patient care and just kind of questioning, could I have made that experience better? Could I have done something differently? And it's good. I hope that is happening now. But it's also been hard. It's hard to accept that there's there's a lot that I probably did that added to that trauma. 

Lindsey Vestal Well, Rebeca, I think thank you for saying all that. And to your point of kind of going back and doing a bit of a moratorium to the clients you've had the privilege of serving and then recognizing that now with this knowledge that you have, you could do differently. I want to say that I want to reduce any shame or any any negativity you have when you sort of are evaluating that about yourself. You know, I just had the distinct pleasure of of serving the first oat pioneers hands on lab this past week. And up to this point, my course has been all online and, you know, I am loving these in-person events between the summit, the Sedona retreat. I'm like, okay, how many more times can I get into a room with pelvic floor therapists? Because it just lights me up. And, you know, the conversations were pretty deep. It's all beginners. And they said, you know what? If I do wrong by my client, what if I can't serve them the way that I want to? Here's the thing. Until we get started, until we actually have those opportunities to see where our gaps are or to be able to to, you know, be present and see even the sequence of events. Remember when you didn't even know what an evaluation looked like? You know, those beginning days when you're wrapping your head around what's the rhythm? How much time do I give to the internal exam? And the thing is, we have to be messy in order to evolve, you know? And it's not until we allow ourselves that grace to start seeing clients and to start making mistakes. We're not going to arrive at that place that we imagine ourselves being as the best practitioner every day. Rebeca I think thank my first gosh, let's be honest, five years of clients for teaching me all that they did because I couldn't do better until I got started. So I just want to say that that thank you for caring so much. Thank you for not being on autopilot. But let's also give ourselves the grace of recognizing when we know better, we do better. And then you didn't know at that point what what was capable and what was possible. So I give gratitude to those initial clients, and then we just keep moving forward and getting giving better and better care and being the advocate and the visionary that you are for us all. 

Rebeca Segraves You know, we have to be messy in order to evolve. That's that's honestly, that's what I think about in terms of like pelvic health, you know, kind of our field as a whole, right? I had the, the pleasure of being in our first in-person OTs and Pelvic health summit with Jenna, with my spouse, and to see her eyes like she's not a public health therapist. She is a neuro clinical specialist and physical therapy. She's a now an assistant professor in a program. She really doesn't, you know, go to Pelvic health events with me. That's just not what she does. And she was floored at how impactful it was for her, just personally, just things that she has kind of shared publicly about her own trauma and just being in a. A conference led by OTs was completely transformative. And we had we experienced that together last year. And so I think about that messiness, right, of pelvic health. I mean, we're still a new field that that doesn't offer our services in the hospital. Like when you think about that, when you think about cardiology and neurology and orthopedic, you know, we are we have tentacles in those those fields of of every setting. And we're still growing. It's messy. And I think about the the lack of providers right. To even even focus in on a discipline that that that feels so messy to me. Lindsey In order to evolve, we have to recognize it's really messy right now to make this discipline specific. What's been your driving like urge to really expand pelvic health providers, the amount that we have. What's what's been your story? 

Lindsey Vestal Yeah, I mean, first of all, providers is a wonderful word because I don't think I don't think I just think, how are we going to meet, meet, meet the needs of all the people that meet us. And I have personal stories not only from my mom who actually passed away from complications of a stage four prolapse to my father, which is the reason I got into pelvic floor therapy to begin with, which is the fact that he had prostate and bladder cancer and he had very frequent urgency and incontinence. And I saw him completely withdraw from his life to then my own birth story where I had a three and a half degree tear and was physically incontinent. So I you know, it's strongly within me for for my own experiences and for my parents. But then also, there's just all of the stories, all of the you know, I'm one of those people, Rebeca, who I love having difficult conversations. I really like, you know, holding space for conversations that are not common dinner party conversations. I just I enjoy that. And so for me, being able to connect people with providers that can open up this sacred space to reclaim who they are, to to feel comfortable in their own body again, to feel the optimism and the the that we all deserve to feel is so incredibly compelling. I mean, there just isn't a greater privilege, you know? And so then to step into this place now where I have this opportunity to continue to build that community and to help ts become, you know, step into this work, which like is just the best job in the world. I just it's, it's started with a personal story and then it has grown to every single person in the world that I have had the honor to not only support but my students to support because I hear their stories, I'm with them, you know, And so it's like just just there's nothing like it. So I think there's that aspect of it, of being able to provide care to those that need it and keep those spaces open and not dismiss, right? There's that. And then there's also just the fact that I just so wholeheartedly believe in what occupational therapists bring to every setting that they're in. You know, I feel like we have a long history of imposter syndrome. We have a long history of kind of being a jack of all trades. And so people sometimes don't know what we do. You can meet one who is in a school setting. You can meet one that's in a snap. You can meet one that has their own pelvic health private practice and you're thinking, What is this profession, right? It's like there doesn't seem to be a common thread. And so I'm just such an advocate and that doesn't mean I'm not an advocate for I love feeds, but I am an O.T. and I can see how sometimes we hold ourselves back with our lack of confidence. And and I want to see that change. I want to see us grow into the pride of the fact that, come on, we are mental health professionals. We combine the mind and body. That is where true healing begins. We have that creativity. We have that flexibility to design and work alongside our clients to bring them the very best care that we can. And so I just love I just love us. And so I think that's a huge driving force there as well. 

Rebeca Segraves What do you see in terms of specific barriers because of that either lack of confidence, that lack of brand recognition, that imposter syndrome that that you're describing in the profession as a whole, what do you see? Are the barriers specific to Pelvic health? I mean, are I've been a little bit like shots, but I really just need to kind of step back and hear it from an O.T.. I don't I don't understand why a pelvic health therapist who's an occupational therapist would be turned away when we need so many. We're we're so we're we're under serving our patients. I mean, to have a 6 to 8 week wait list to see a pelvic health therapist is a disservice is a disservice to our providers. It's a disservice to people. When I think about the story that you just shared about your parents and said to know that they had pelvic health histories that significantly impacted their lives. Your life that is just to me is just like an moment. We can change this. We can expand the providers within Pelvic health What are the barriers that you're seeing? 

Lindsey Vestal Lindsey They're so multifaceted. I think the first is that many systems that can hire occupational therapists don't actually recognize that a note can be a pelvic health therapist. So what comes to mind immediately for me is when I applied for my first job over a decade ago, my resume just kept getting passed over at the h r level because I didn't meet the core requirements of being a physical therapist. I'd already taken tons of coursework. I had the proficiency. If I had been a petty, I would have been hired like that. But because they thought, this is not the discipline we're hiring for, it just kept getting passed. Well, Rebeca, I'm a bit of a stubborn person and I don't give up. And so, you know, I went and knocked on the door. I met the director personally, and they were able to bypass that h.r. Requirement. Not everyone is is is is bold, nor should we have to be, you know, and so, number one, there's the systems perspective of our resumes just getting passed over because we're not quote unquote meeting the core requirements. There's that aspect of it. There's also some some other concerns, right? So some of the ones that come to mind that I've heard a lot of physical therapists that I've loved engaging in dialog around this are, you know, we don't have the background in in sort of the lumbar orthopedic considerations that physical therapy do in school. And so I think many of them think that perhaps the core foundational skills aren't there for us to be able to support our clients in a holistic way. So I think there's there's that. And then there's also the fact that I just think as a profession, we've had a bit of an identity crisis in terms of sort of knowing our worth. You know, this is broad strokes. I don't want to speak for every occupational therapist out there, but, you know, my husband, Doug, helps start their own private pay practices. And I hear that a lot from him, too. And he doesn't just work with pelvic floor therapist. He works with all of TS, And there's always this deliberation of Can I do this? Am I capable of this? Am I enough? And I'm not so sure where that starts. Your back. I don't I don't know. But it feels very pervasive for me right now. It's actually one of the reasons why I've started a certification program for a very long time. I was against a certification for a lot of reasons. First is I don't want to make it harder. I don't want that barrier to entry to be harder. I started super scrappy. I'm a very like DIY person and roll up my sleeves, get it done. If I feel this passion, this calling, it's going to happen. And so I always thought, well, there is no formula, there is no structure in place, why create one? And I was talking to a student who and OT who said, you know, I'm becoming a lactation hottie, but I'd also like to offer pelvic health services. And, you know, when I look up how to become a lactation specialist, there's a graphic. And it's a very simple path, one path to path three. This is how I can do it. I'm so confused about how to become a pelvic floor therapist. Why isn't it clear? And I've heard this probably like thousands of times since I've had the privilege of supporting Ot's and creating communities. There is something about this that really struck me that I thought were actually stopping people from entering this field because it's not clear enough versus what I thought the opposite was. I thought if I create if there was a structure that it would be hard to enter and that there's the light bulb moment. I'm so grateful for this O.T. reaching out to me about this. And so and so now I'm creating a very rigorous program with core competencies, knowledge, skills and abilities that the largest employers of occupational therapists will recognize because we're meeting their standards and beyond. So that now, look, you don't have to do this program to be a therapist, to be a pelvic health O.T. But if you want a reason to walk into a room with confidence and say, This is why you should hire me, this is what I can sign off, there's actually over 200 core competencies that they can sign off with this program. Let's do it, you know, and if that's what you need. And so it's it's kind of listening to the needs of the community. And like I said, by no means is is it a requirement at this point. But for those that want that structured path and want that confidence to to not pass over a job that in their heart they feel they want and need, let's bring it let's do it so that that that we can we can have we can no longer have 6 to 8 with. Long waiting periods. We can have every community have the ability to walk in and be treated by a pelvic health professional and have that hope, have that optimism, be able to reclaim their life again. 

Rebeca Segraves You know what? The business adviser at Goldman Sachs I was involved in the 1 million black women Goldman Sachs business program. And the one thing that sticks out about what your comments were about the certification was that when you're creating a certification, you know, that's industry standard, right? That's something that your industry can recognize as a standard pathway of of creating competency, right? In your profession, whatever that is. You're serving not just your profession, but you're serving your clients, your patients, and you're serving your referring partners. Those other industry leaders, whether they're in health care, whether they're the OB-GYNs or the urologists or the the, you know, pelvic health practitioners of the midwifery services that are complementary to your pelvic health services. You're serving the whole industry, right? When you're creating a certification because you're one, you're creating a a standard that people can recognize that this is the professional who can meet my needs. This is a trauma informed professional who I know is going to understand my physical as well as my emotional journey. This is a professional. I can refer to you because now you've created this standard of practice, right? And so it's really Lindsey, what you've created is serving so many different people, especially the people that we all want to impact by your certification. Please tell me more. What what is the name of the certification? Where can people find it? How what is the the entry point for people to get started? 

Lindsey Vestal First of all, thank you for saying that. It just makes my heart saying to think about that ripple effect. So I love that. I first need to give a shout out to Kelsey Smith as she is the person who I created the Autism Public Health Summit with, and she is also my partner in Crime Do or Die ride for this certification. She is just I just I can't tell you how how incredible she is. 

Rebeca Segraves I've been following her work with the the with our military service. I mean, she's in the fact she's on the federal level as an O.T., as a pelvic health O.T., making changes. So, yes, healthy math is awesome. That's your partner in crime? 

Lindsey Vestal That's my partner in crime. And so her and I are working on this behind the scenes. And so the best thing to do is to go to functional pelvis dot com backslash levels. Applications are going to open in January 2025. And so we're we're rolling this out really methodically and really carefully. And so there are levels that you can do to kind of you don't have to go for the certification. I think the certification is going to be the most the most enlightening because that's where you then also have the trauma informed component. And I struggled long and hard. You and I have had many conversations about this. I wish I want to start with the trauma informed and eventually I feel like that's something we can do. But as of now, you know, it's it's the foundational coursework, a colorectal course that's your level one and level two. And then in the certification process, it's the trauma informed work as well. And so after that, you're going to be able to speak to over 200 competencies to then I'm imagine a practitioner walking into an H.R. department or a hiring manager and saying, you know, I'm a functional pelvis holistic practitioner and this is what I can this is this is the document I can describe to and tell you I can meet these companies. I can serve your clients and in the most robust way possible. And the hiring manager says, when can you start? You know, like that's the kind of level of conversations that I'm imagining happen with this ripple effect. And we're going to do so much advocacy behind the scenes to let every setting who hires pelvic floor OTS and Petey's to know about this certification. They're going to know the quality of the practitioner that actually has received the certification so that you're not out there floundering and trying to explain it right. We're going to give you all the verbiage. We're also going to be doing all the advocacy behind the scenes to let employers know about this program. 

Rebeca Segraves And that's a huge part. That's what people probably really need the most, is the advocacy behind it. 200 competencies. That to me is like, you're hired. Like, please, like when can you start? Absolutely. But the advocacy behind this, there is going to there's going to be really a big shift in our at the provider level, to be honest with you, in terms of how they're routing patients to us sooner. And we just really need to let the. Now, here we are. And so what can what can people now do in order to either prepare? Are there any prerequisites? I'm still kind of thinking like January 20th, 25. If I'm a student who's graduating this summer, what do I need in order to pursue this certification? What's the entry point? 

Lindsey Vestal Yeah, So I mean, a great entry point is what Pioneers. That's my flagship intro course. After that would be to elevate the bio psychosocial approach to colorectal conditions. Those two together, combined with the in-person labs that we offer, make you a level one. Level two is taking the trauma informed certification after you've taken basically an intro course, a colorectal course and have trauma informed care under your belt. You can now sit for the certification. You don't have to just take my courses as long as you've taken a course that can sign off on the competencies, you can still sit for the certification. I will say the one caveat there is the trauma informed certification, which is that key component to be the level two. As of right now, Laura and I's trauma informed certification is the only program out there that you can take. But in terms of the other courses, you can absolutely take them as long as they sign off on those core competencies. And sitting for the certification is kind of approved for that. Right. Have you been able to take some of these PCE led courses and be able to internalize them through an Otti lens? Because that's the thing, right? Like we have to often reinterpret some of these courses through our practice framework. So obviously if you take my courses, that's, that's kind of built into it innately. But I think all the T's out there that have been taking other courses are doing this already, right? It's in our DNA to think like a not to think in that holistic way. And so when you sit for that certification, as long as you're demonstrating that you can do that, by all means, you know, let's give you that certification. 

Rebeca Segraves Yeah. And to bring this full circle and just kind of like close off this conversation, Lindsey, as a women's health clinical specialist, that's my certification. That was kind of my real entry point into holding up my flag and putting the sign on my door and letting physicians know who I was to refer. I'm still backtracking when I say that's not a place of shame. It really is just acknowledging that I had the level one, I had the level two. I even went further. It wasn't necessary for our certification, but I did further work in pediatric pelvic floor, male pelvic floor dysfunction. And I realize. If I had had a trauma informed component to my practice, my approach would have been a lot different, especially when I transitioned into the acute care environment. And I was seeing women after perinatal loss to be in the room with a woman who's holding her baby, who's not alive. I could go through those courses again. It would not have prepared me for those interactions. It just truly wasn't. And until I was in the Trauma Informed Certification program in the Sedona retreat, I was floored at how much you were giving us. And I realized, well, I'm in a room of what is the loan, Piti? And this is embedded in your practice. Like, I can't think of a more qualified profession who are now offering and expanding their services to the Pelvic health population. That's how I think about it. I don't think about Pelvic health Ortiz. I think about the profession who's expanding their services to people with pelvic floor dysfunction or after birth. We're in the surge in the hospital after a pelvic surgery. And so I'm ready. I'm just like, when does and you know, I will be at every summit. I can't wait for the added benefit that has been to my practice and my profession just to be a part of the Ortiz and Pelvic health Summit annually. This certification is just I can't wait for it to launch. I'm just so thankful for what you're doing. Really? 

Lindsey Vestal Thank you. Rebeca I can hear everything that you said for the work that you and Jenna are doing. And I just want to say that my kiddos who you rocked you in general, declined with at the fund raiser event at last summit. They are ready to challenge off day they want to be there with you all and they are just chomping down the hours like when are we going to rock climbers Rebeca and Jenna again? And also remember all of the new people that we introduced rock climbing to and like they took off, like the support that was there. That's just like a microcosm of this event and also just the community that we're building. Rebeca Of people that care to walk alongside one another and that's it. I could imagine and see that at the summit, at the rock climbing. And every step ever since then, those of us that just don't care about the discipline name, Do you have an in front of your name? Do you have a P in front of your name? Let's just put all of that aside, serve our clients and support one another every step along the way. 

Rebeca Segraves I completely agree. And I cannot wait. You tell your kids I will be ready with my rock climbing shoes. I absolutely one of the best conferences that Jenna and I have attended and we say, hands down, we're lifelong submitters. OTs and Pelvic health Summit. And yes, we felt welcomed. It's an amazing conference. I again remind us when that conference is. Lindsey It's on how to be a part of it. 

Lindsey Vestal So we are sold out. We've sold out the last two years. It's August 17th and 18th. We not only have our current Aotea president coming, but our incoming president, Dr. Oramah, who's going to be there. She's actually doing a Ted talk like you are, Rebeca. And so it's just the robustness, the level of support that's going to be there. We have tons of parties that are not only speaking, but we have some attending as well. We love them. We love when pitches come, but recording tickets are still available. So if you're okay.

Rebeca Segraves I was going to say there's no way to be a part of this. Okay, so recording. So how can people get it? Those I'm looking and I'm like, okay, that's still open. 

Lindsey Vestal Yeah. So Functional pelvis dot com backslash summit. There are $297 for the recorded tickets. They do come with what you use this year. That's new for us. So we have 1.6 C use with that. And so and also we have a professional videography team coming. They're going to capture every moment of the conference like close up. So you're going to see those hands on techniques overhead. When we have our labs, like it's it's going to be the next best thing to be in there. 

Rebeca Segraves Awesome. Lindsey, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for your time, for your advocacy for this new program, certification and opportunities to really expand pelvic health care. Thank you. 

Lindsey Vestal Thank you, Rebeca, for all that you do for for really passionately, innately supporting us. We really feel that and we really feel the the fire you're putting underneath us to create this collective change. And that's what it takes. And so actually, thank you for everything that you're doing to move this forward. We we are beyond grateful for you. 

Rebeca Segraves Same here, Lindsey. We'll speak soon. 

Lindsey Vestal Sounds great. Thank you. 

Outro Into another episode of OTs and Pelvic health. If you haven't already, hop on to Facebook and join my group, OTs for Pelvic health, where we have thousands of OTs at all stages of their pelvic health career journey. This is such an incredibly supportive community where I go live each and every week. If you love this episode, please take a screenshot of this episode on your phone and posted to IG Facebook or wherever you post your stuff and be sure to tag me and let me know why you like this episode. This will help me to create in the future what you want to hear more of. Thanks again for listening to the OTs and Pelvic health podcast.