The Why and How of Spiritual Health: A Look at the 4 Layers of the Brain

Did you know the brain goes through 4 stages of development? And that those stages correspond to our maturation and age? And what does the Lord's Prayer and the story of Cain and Abel have to do with this? Pain and trauma have a way of impacting each of these stages in unique ways. Join Joshua and Ken Hoffert as they dive in and break down how we are formed and what we can do about it.

For more about Wind Ministries, visit: https://www.windministries.ca/

To support Josh and Ken, visit: https://www.windministries.ca/donate

Transcript

00;00;07;15 - 00;00;17;09
Ken Hoffert
Hey, hey.

00;00;17;11 - 00;00;19;06
Joshua Hoffert
The tendency has always.

00;00;19;06 - 00;00;20;20
Ken Hoffert
Been.

00;00;20;23 - 00;00;24;05
Joshua Hoffert
To organize ourselves in a way that mitigates.

00;00;24;05 - 00;00;29;07
Joshau Hoffert
The effects of the natural world. Oh, yeah.

00;00;29;10 - 00;00;31;23
Joshua Hoffert
Like, we always do it from the get go request.

00;00;31;29 - 00;00;32;26
Ken Hoffert
From the natural world.

00;00;32;27 - 00;00;37;16
Joshua Hoffert
We try and protect ourselves from us, whether it's from ancient tribal.

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Joshau Hoffert
Patterns to the, you know, the.

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Joshua Hoffert
Cities that.

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Joshau Hoffert
We gather in today. Right. It's like.

00;00;44;20 - 00;00;45;18
Joshua Hoffert
We're we're trying to.

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Joshau Hoffert
Insulate ourselves from.

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Joshua Hoffert
The actual.

00;00;48;24 - 00;00;50;03
Joshau Hoffert
Chaos.

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Joshua Hoffert
Of what, what life.

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Joshau Hoffert
Is about.

00;00;54;15 - 00;01;00;23
Ken Hoffert
Right.

00;01;00;26 - 00;01;11;11
Joshua Hoffert
Hey, everybody, and welcome back to another episode in the Spiritual Maturity series on the Wind Ministries podcast.

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Joshau Hoffert
I'm your co-host of this particular.

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Joshua Hoffert
Serious, serious, Serious series.

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Joshau Hoffert
Joshua Hoffert. otherwise known as Josh Hoffert. And, I'm the founder of, Wind Ministries, I guess, the co-founder, co-host of the podcast and co-founder of Wind Ministries, because my wife also exists and is very important.

00;01;33;09 - 00;01;35;08
Joshua Hoffert
And I'm joined by.

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Joshau Hoffert
My, other person on the podcast. Dad. Hoffert. Hello. He is here. Yes. He's in the house. Well, in his house. Not in my house.

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Ken Hoffert
It's true.

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Joshau Hoffert
Yes.

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Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. We're we're you know, we're fairly geographically separated.

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Joshau Hoffert
You might not.

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Ken Hoffert
2500 miles.

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Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. So at least.

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Joshau Hoffert
That. Yeah. So.

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Joshua Hoffert
I'm in Prince Edward.

00;02;02;13 - 00;02;09;07
Joshau Hoffert
Island, the home of Anne of Green Gables, and that's where I presently reside. And my dad is in Florida, the.

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Ken Hoffert
Home of all of Florida.

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Joshua Hoffert
The home of Ron DeSantis.

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Joshau Hoffert
So, yes.

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Ken Hoffert
Blue Angels and etc., etc..

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Joshua Hoffert
As it really, that's where the Blue Angels.

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Joshau Hoffert
Are. Yeah, that's.

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Ken Hoffert
Right. It's their home base.

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Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, yeah, we actually took the kids on, Canada Day weekend, which is just. Canada's got to.

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Joshau Hoffert
Try and one up the U.S. on their, you know, National day of celebration. So they make it July 1st and so on July 4th. And, the, the on Canada Day out here, they had I think it was Canada Day last year, I'm pretty sure. Anyway, they had the Canadian version of the Blue Angels. Oh, cool.

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Joshau Hoffert
And, the,

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Joshua Hoffert
And the so which we, you know, which was great.

00;02;54;27 - 00;03;08;01
Joshau Hoffert
Fun for the kids and, they're called the snowbirds, and they do the same kind of, you know, flybys and all kinds of acrobatic aerial maneuvers. And the kids just loved it.

00;03;08;01 - 00;03;14;00
Joshua Hoffert
So I don't know where the snowbirds hail from. Right. They're not I don't think they're from P.E.I..

00;03;14;00 - 00;03;23;19
Joshau Hoffert
But we did see them. So cool. Yes. Yeah. And it was, it was great fun. Was had by all. So yes.

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Joshua Hoffert
Anyway, so how are things down in Florida, pops? You got bugs coming out.

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Ken Hoffert
Bugs and storms and all kinds of interesting stuff. But, it's also beautiful.

00;03;36;03 - 00;03;38;11
Joshau Hoffert
So banana spiders, for those of you who haven't.

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Ken Hoffert
Seen any yet this year. Okay. Right. I'm a little disappointed. I really like my buddy's.

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Joshua Hoffert
The biggest spiders we have in in.

00;03;46;00 - 00;03;51;04
Joshau Hoffert
Prince Edward Island are like daddy longlegs spiders. What other of those are called?

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Ken Hoffert
Well, they say that those banana spiders can take out, like, 10,000 bugs in a month.

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Joshau Hoffert
So. So you want them?

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Ken Hoffert
You need 3 or 4 of those guys. I'll take them. All right. I'm on an acre, so that's okay. But,

00;04;03;28 - 00;04;08;07
Joshua Hoffert
We don't we don't. The thing in with the thing that's interesting about weather in P.E.I..

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Joshau Hoffert
When it comes to that is P.E.I. being, you know, code for Prince Edward Island is, there's.

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Joshua Hoffert
These short spurts of when the bugs.

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Joshau Hoffert
Come out and, because.

00;04;19;13 - 00;04;20;26
Joshua Hoffert
The weather is so cold, right.

00;04;20;26 - 00;04;27;06
Joshau Hoffert
90% of the year, it's too cold for any kind of, major bug explosion.

00;04;27;06 - 00;04;33;07
Joshua Hoffert
But then when it warms up, the bugs explode in. There's this couple of weeks that this bug, this couple of weeks at.

00;04;33;07 - 00;04;46;04
Joshau Hoffert
This bug, this couple of weeks. It's this bug. and, so then by the time you get to mid September, that's pretty much all died down again because of the weather. And there's something.

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Ken Hoffert
To be said for that.

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Joshau Hoffert
Yeah.

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Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, yeah. Although when they explode there, it's a, it's a density of explosion.

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Ken Hoffert
You just want to be gone.

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Joshau Hoffert
Yeah. That's right.

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Joshua Hoffert
So the people come here.

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Joshau Hoffert
For the winter or for the summer because of that. But urban because of the winter. The summers are very mildly warm. Right. It's it's not like Florida summers, but they send the kids outside in the middle of July and they'll come back with about 30 mosquito bites so easily. Yeah, yeah.

00;05;15;21 - 00;05;20;09
Ken Hoffert
And I recall that when I was a kid, we visited Minnesota.

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Joshau Hoffert
Oh, yeah. There you go. Yeah.

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Ken Hoffert
That that to the, our relatives lake houses, man, where there are some mosquitoes there. my fear of mosquitoes has, was firmly rooted in that because we're going to talk about about trauma.

00;05;39;00 - 00;05;41;00
Joshua Hoffert
We are. That's right, that's right.

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Ken Hoffert
So there's trauma right there.

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Joshau Hoffert
There you go. Trauma. Minnesotan trauma. Well.

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Ken Hoffert
My my cousins didn't tell us that, and they probably didn't care. You know, they they grew up there, but my brother Steve and I were, we were out messing around the lake, and it was getting to be dusk and and, all of a sudden we saw these big black clouds gathering. Oh, my gosh. And, we had to go under the water and stay under the water.

00;06;13;04 - 00;06;17;26
Ken Hoffert
And finally, after about 20 minutes, we just made a dash for the house.

00;06;17;28 - 00;06;18;19
Joshau Hoffert
Wow.

00;06;20;03 - 00;06;25;01
Ken Hoffert
yeah, I, I was, traumatized by mosquitoes at an earlier age.

00;06;25;05 - 00;06;28;07
Joshua Hoffert
Firmly rooted, but probably not subcortical.

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Joshau Hoffert
So.

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Ken Hoffert
No, no, I was I was certainly it's not pre lingual subcortical any of those things. It was it was certainly I would think I was probably seven years old at that. Right.

00;06;41;29 - 00;06;49;28
Joshau Hoffert
Right. Yeah. So you're, you're into the, not the infant stage, but the child stuff. Stage. Yeah. Yeah.

00;06;49;28 - 00;06;54;15
Joshua Hoffert
So those are all things where, by the way, for those of you that are going, what are they talking about? Those are all things.

00;06;54;15 - 00;06;56;18
Joshau Hoffert
That we're going to talk about as the podcast.

00;06;56;18 - 00;06;58;20
Ken Hoffert
Sort. Yeah. Developments of the brain.

00;06;58;24 - 00;06;59;18
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah.

00;06;59;21 - 00;07;06;12
Ken Hoffert
Periods of time in which the brain develops. certain certain.

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Joshau Hoffert


00;07;07;08 - 00;07;08;18
Ken Hoffert
Capacity portions and.

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Joshau Hoffert
Capacities. Yeah, yeah.

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Ken Hoffert
Brain are functioning better and great and developing and, and they and they require, the brain at that point requires certain activities and certain responses from us. in the world and the world around us. So that's right. And grow and gain the things that it has needed. And and what we find in life far too often is because we live in a, in a world that has much damage.

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Ken Hoffert
yeah. It was so within Christian language it would we would call we're in a fallen world, but. Right. but whether you're you, you're using Christian language or not, we look at a world that has difficulties and, and, and violence and anger and, and all of these sorts of things human against human that, create places of trauma and, and, and keep us from messes from, from, from moving forward in the best way possible for that our brains are anticipating.

00;08;16;29 - 00;08;27;07
Ken Hoffert
Yeah. So that we gain everything we need so we can become fully human as we grow. So we get little bits and pieces that get stunted, some more than others. And that's right. You can talk a bit about that.

00;08;27;07 - 00;08;28;24
Joshau Hoffert
And, yeah, we will.

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Joshua Hoffert
It's interesting that.

00;08;29;24 - 00;08;32;06
Joshau Hoffert
As, as, humans.

00;08;32;06 - 00;08;40;26
Joshua Hoffert
As humans, the tendency has always been to organize ourselves.

00;08;40;26 - 00;08;46;02
Joshau Hoffert
In a way that mitigates the effects of the natural world.

00;08;46;04 - 00;08;47;10
Ken Hoffert
Oh. yeah.

00;08;47;10 - 00;08;49;19
Joshua Hoffert
We're like, we always do it from the get go.

00;08;49;25 - 00;08;50;18
Ken Hoffert
Whether it's from the.

00;08;50;18 - 00;08;53;00
Joshua Hoffert
Natural world we try and protect ourselves from.

00;08;53;02 - 00;08;53;10
Ken Hoffert
Yes.

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Joshua Hoffert
Whether it's from ancient tribal patterns.

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Joshau Hoffert
To the, you know, the cities that we gather in today, right? It's like.

00;09;03;06 - 00;09;04;13
Joshua Hoffert
We're we're trying to insulate.

00;09;04;13 - 00;09;06;16
Joshau Hoffert
Ourselves from the.

00;09;06;16 - 00;09;10;12
Joshua Hoffert
Actual chaos of what,

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Joshau Hoffert
What life is about.

00;09;12;24 - 00;09;15;06
Joshua Hoffert
And then we we delude ourselves into thinking.

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Joshau Hoffert
That life is simple, normal, and peaceful.

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Joshua Hoffert
Until something.

00;09;18;18 - 00;09;20;22
Joshau Hoffert
Calamitous happens and we realize.

00;09;20;24 - 00;09;23;04
Joshua Hoffert
Well, because it's a worldwide pandemic, right?

00;09;23;04 - 00;10;05;03
Ken Hoffert
We're all language of that is that we are, are we are self protecting. Yes. All the time. Yes. And I, I love the, the story of and of, Cain right after he kills his brother. I don't love that part of the story. Right. but in in the Hebrew scriptures. So we're there's a thing we're trying to learn here, right in the story and in the in the scripture, in the Hebrew Scriptures, the, the, God comes to can says, I'll protect you, right.

00;10;05;05 - 00;10;27;28
Ken Hoffert
If you're just, you know, trust me. Yeah. And Cain, it's like it's kind of like the pause in the story is Cain thinks about it. You think you can kind of almost see him thinking about it and then says, I don't know if I'm gonna go that direction, right? I'm going to build a city. Yeah. If it was up around myself to protect myself.

00;10;28;00 - 00;10;52;20
Ken Hoffert
And it's this conscious choice he makes. Yeah, I'm gonna find a way to protect myself. Yeah. And and I because I don't think I can trust. Yahweh. Right. To protect me. Right. Because I know what I've done. Right. And and I and I don't know that I can live with myself in what I've done. So I'm going to prevent myself from others that might want to harm me.

00;10;52;23 - 00;11;03;22
Ken Hoffert
Right? And wow, isn't that a story of what humans do? That's right. Every day for ourselves, we find ways to protect ourselves because we don't trust.

00;11;03;25 - 00;11;04;22
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah, yeah.

00;11;04;22 - 00;11;07;25
Joshua Hoffert
And and it's almost we, we kind of tacitly.

00;11;07;25 - 00;11;10;29
Joshau Hoffert
Admit in the way we protect ourselves that.

00;11;11;01 - 00;11;12;07
Joshua Hoffert
The world should be a.

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Joshau Hoffert
Different place, but it's not. Yes. It's like.

00;11;15;15 - 00;11;18;18
Joshua Hoffert
Well, we recognize there's there are certain.

00;11;18;18 - 00;11;20;09
Joshau Hoffert
Parameters.

00;11;20;11 - 00;11;23;29
Joshua Hoffert
That will aid our flourishing, but we can't quite.

00;11;23;29 - 00;11;26;16
Joshau Hoffert
Get there on our own. and.

00;11;26;16 - 00;11;32;14
Joshua Hoffert
So let's, let's try and create systems and, you know, systems of governance and systems.

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Joshau Hoffert
Of

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Joshua Hoffert
Municipal control systems.

00;11;35;29 - 00;11;40;02
Joshau Hoffert
Of family dynamics. And, and hopefully.

00;11;40;02 - 00;11;41;10
Joshua Hoffert
With that, we'll be able to.

00;11;41;10 - 00;11;46;08
Joshau Hoffert
Mitigate the disaster. But then when it happens.

00;11;46;11 - 00;11;49;17
Joshua Hoffert
What do you do. Yeah. And and it happens to everybody, you know.

00;11;49;19 - 00;11;53;15
Ken Hoffert
Because why. So that's really what we're dealing with here is the why does it happen.

00;11;53;16 - 00;11;54;21
Joshau Hoffert
Why does it happen. Yeah.

00;11;54;21 - 00;12;20;10
Joshua Hoffert
The why and the how. Right. It's it is the why. Why does it happen and how does it affect us. Yeah. Right. And so what we wanted to do in this episode is talk through in a in kind of a general sense, the make up of the brain and distill, distill that down to a working, functional knowledge. Now we're talking about a very complex and complicated organ, not just, I mean, and the way we.

00;12;20;10 - 00;12;21;06
Ken Hoffert
Hope it is anyway.

00;12;21;06 - 00;12;31;00
Joshua Hoffert
We hope it is. Yeah. And and the way that we, you know, we could you could get into all kinds of, you know, are the mind and the brains the.

00;12;31;00 - 00;12;32;18
Joshau Hoffert
Same thing.

00;12;32;21 - 00;12;38;26
Joshua Hoffert
And is the, is the right like the conscious thought process in the brain? Is it the same thing?

00;12;39;11 - 00;12;43;04
Joshau Hoffert
our and we're not going to get into that. Right. That's a philosophical conversation.

00;12;43;19 - 00;12;49;07
Joshua Hoffert
and and then also is the brain where memory is always stored.

00;12;49;10 - 00;12;50;01
Joshau Hoffert


00;12;50;03 - 00;12;52;13
Joshua Hoffert
And because that's another thing.

00;12;52;15 - 00;12;52;18
Ken Hoffert
Yeah.

00;12;52;20 - 00;12;57;10
Joshua Hoffert
It is an interesting thing. Right. Because we talked about subcortical trauma.

00;12;57;10 - 00;13;01;17
Joshau Hoffert
And then you have body memory and.

00;13;01;17 - 00;13;07;10
Joshua Hoffert
And so there's all this, there's all these new, a new things that we begin to understand. Yeah.

00;13;07;10 - 00;13;21;05
Ken Hoffert
And and when you say body memory, there's positive and negative body. Yes. I mean, how does an athlete know how to, do the things they do so. Well, they. Yeah. Train their body to.

00;13;21;05 - 00;13;22;20
Joshua Hoffert
Before conscious thought we.

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Joshau Hoffert
Do that.

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Ken Hoffert
Yeah. It's other. So they yes they get their body so well trained that their body will do what it needs to do without any thought.

00;13;31;05 - 00;13;34;08
Joshau Hoffert
Yes, exactly. That is body memory. Right.

00;13;34;08 - 00;13;35;18
Joshua Hoffert
And Paul seems to talk.

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Joshau Hoffert
About this, of course, in Romans seven about body memory, that there's a law within your members teaching you how to act and behave. Yeah, yeah. And and so there's that.

00;13;46;25 - 00;13;50;00
Joshua Hoffert
When we look at what we understand scientifically.

00;13;50;00 - 00;13;51;09
Joshau Hoffert
Today about.

00;13;51;11 - 00;13;52;12
Joshua Hoffert
The brain and the.

00;13;52;12 - 00;13;53;26
Joshau Hoffert
Body and the way.

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Joshua Hoffert
Memory is.

00;13;54;23 - 00;13;57;29
Joshau Hoffert
Stored, and then the way trauma is stored. Yeah.

00;13;58;02 - 00;14;17;28
Joshua Hoffert
And, and then we start looking at what the, the kind of things that Jesus talked about. And the kind of things, especially you read through the book of Proverbs and you compare that with a scientific science, a Notes on Satan, a from a neurologist or neuroscientist. And you go, oh, the Bible actually had something to say about this.

00;14;18;01 - 00;14;19;14
Joshau Hoffert
And

00;14;19;17 - 00;14;26;11
Joshua Hoffert
And so when we when we look at the Bible and we look at advances, modern advances in neuroscience and modern.

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Joshau Hoffert
Advances, just in, the.

00;14;27;27 - 00;14;37;09
Joshua Hoffert
Physiological sciences, we go, oh, there's actually we're understanding how things work, and it's actually making sense when it comes.

00;14;37;09 - 00;14;39;11
Joshau Hoffert
To, the scriptures, which.

00;14;39;11 - 00;14;42;14
Joshua Hoffert
We'll I think we'll look at that. Yeah. Even just a little.

00;14;42;14 - 00;14;48;11
Joshau Hoffert
Bit more as we go through this, you know, like, I was saying to my dad before, we.

00;14;48;11 - 00;14;49;07
Joshua Hoffert
Started recording.

00;14;49;07 - 00;14;59;25
Joshau Hoffert
How, it seems like Jesus actually lays out a system of prayer in the Lord's Prayer that actually addresses all of those portions of our brain as they develop.

00;14;59;25 - 00;15;07;06
Joshua Hoffert
And so let's let's, Well, the first thing that we'll say in regards to the, the stuff we're going.

00;15;07;06 - 00;15;08;01
Joshau Hoffert
To say about the.

00;15;08;01 - 00;15;13;05
Joshua Hoffert
Brain is that largely our influences, will we wear them.

00;15;13;05 - 00;15;14;22
Joshau Hoffert
On our sleeves.

00;15;14;25 - 00;15;17;01
Joshua Hoffert
And our influences are the life.

00;15;17;01 - 00;15;33;27
Joshau Hoffert
Model guys, Jim Wilder, and the, the books, like, living from the heart. Jesus gave you, Jim father's book renovated. I know you like the book. the book about men. What is it? I don't not read it, but, Oh.

00;15;33;29 - 00;15;37;11
Ken Hoffert
The complete Guide to Living. Yeah, man. Yeah. It's not. It's not in print anymore.

00;15;37;11 - 00;15;38;10
Joshau Hoffert
Not in print anymore.

00;15;38;21 - 00;15;40;22
Joshua Hoffert
rare leadership is another good one.

00;15;40;22 - 00;15;42;09
Joshau Hoffert
The other half of church.

00;15;42;23 - 00;15;45;23
Joshua Hoffert
but but really, the the kind of the base for all.

00;15;45;23 - 00;15;52;17
Joshau Hoffert
Of that would be, the book that while there co-wrote with, a number of other people called living from the heart, Jesus gave you. Right.

00;15;53;04 - 00;15;59;12
Joshua Hoffert
and so that's, that's the The Life Model Works group of guys have been very influential and very helpful for us in thinking.

00;15;59;12 - 00;16;02;24
Joshau Hoffert
Through some of these, some of these as they've.

00;16;02;24 - 00;16;10;18
Ken Hoffert
Been taking brain science, but a lot of it coming from Doctor Alan Shaw. Yes. Yeah. That they, they have not.

00;16;10;20 - 00;16;15;22
Joshua Hoffert
And and not Alan sure is not a Christian. He's a Jewish neuroscientist. Yeah.

00;16;15;24 - 00;16;18;18
Ken Hoffert
UCLA, neuroscientist.

00;16;18;22 - 00;16;26;17
Joshua Hoffert
Who's done many studies on the brain and who is actually aware of how wild or has taken while they're in the life.

00;16;26;17 - 00;16;37;28
Joshau Hoffert
Model guys, I've taken his research and applied it to Christian formation and is as quite pleased with, the results. That's actually that's what the life model works guys have told me. Anyway.

00;16;38;01 - 00;16;45;12
Joshua Hoffert
So so we're talking a, a quote unquote secular studies being applied in a.

00;16;45;12 - 00;16;47;25
Joshau Hoffert
Christian setting, right, in a Christian.

00;16;47;25 - 00;16;48;03
Joshua Hoffert
Sense.

00;16;48;03 - 00;16;51;08
Ken Hoffert
So then some people, which will but but we.

00;16;51;08 - 00;17;12;26
Joshua Hoffert
Want to say that because we're, we're not saying like, you know, there was a there was a, for instance, a, a, a popular, notion that was a quote unquote study. Remember the water crystals thing? Oh, yeah. Right. And there was a I think it was a Japanese scientist who had performed these supposedly.

00;17;13;02 - 00;17;13;19
Joshau Hoffert
Right. Yeah.

00;17;13;19 - 00;17;19;21
Joshua Hoffert
Supposed experiments on water. And if you prayed over the water, it changed the makeup of the crystals.

00;17;19;21 - 00;17;23;06
Joshau Hoffert
And then if you cut, you know, you took,

00;17;23;22 - 00;17;24;22
Joshua Hoffert
pictures of them.

00;17;24;22 - 00;17;28;16
Joshau Hoffert
On the on the, what, on the microscopic.

00;17;28;16 - 00;17;32;20
Joshua Hoffert
Level, you could tell the difference is if you said words of hate over the water, words.

00;17;32;20 - 00;17;36;17
Joshau Hoffert
Of blessing over the water, supposedly change the shape of the water.

00;17;36;23 - 00;17;37;19
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, exactly.

00;17;37;19 - 00;17;39;08
Ken Hoffert
Like punk rock or something like that.

00;17;39;08 - 00;17;48;17
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. And and so that on a that entered into the, there was a lot of and there still is actually people who don't realize how thoroughly debunked that.

00;17;48;17 - 00;17;50;10
Joshau Hoffert
Guy's,

00;17;50;22 - 00;17;58;23
Joshua Hoffert
research has become. And so that was really a popular notion about 20 years ago in, discipleship.

00;17;58;23 - 00;18;00;05
Joshau Hoffert
Teachings, you know.

00;18;00;08 - 00;18;03;08
Joshua Hoffert
Power of life and death in the tongue. Look at this study. It backs up.

00;18;03;08 - 00;18;07;16
Joshau Hoffert
What we're saying, and, and things like that. Right. Well,

00;18;07;19 - 00;18;22;12
Joshua Hoffert
So what I'm trying to say is we're not referencing studies that were done to support someone's hypothesis, who then monetized their hypothesis and made money selling their water. So which is what this.

00;18;22;12 - 00;18;23;28
Joshau Hoffert
Guy did in Japan.

00;18;24;00 - 00;18;37;05
Joshua Hoffert
And then and then people just kind of took it and ran with it. What we're talking about are secular neurologists studying the brain, and then we're going looking at their findings and going, there's something to.

00;18;37;05 - 00;18;45;01
Joshau Hoffert
Say about Christian formation here that's deeply applicable to the words of Jesus, the teachings of the New Testament. And then the Old Testament as well.

00;18;45;20 - 00;18;47;23
Joshua Hoffert
and so some of that. So what would.

00;18;47;25 - 00;18;50;11
Ken Hoffert
Which one would expect would be true.

00;18;50;14 - 00;19;10;18
Joshua Hoffert
You know, if, if the, if what the Bible presents is true and it's a, a presenting the way the world is and the way the world works, then you would expect to find findings in the world that you know, this is what Romans classically says. The invisible attributes of God have been made on display in all of creation.

00;19;10;21 - 00;19;17;27
Joshua Hoffert
So you would hope that if you investigate creation, you find things that confirm the creator, right?

00;19;18;02 - 00;19;20;10
Joshau Hoffert
So that's what we're saying that we found.

00;19;20;14 - 00;19;29;11
Joshua Hoffert
So so there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff there in the life model guys that is very helpful. And then there's other there's other, secular,

00;19;29;13 - 00;19;30;04
Joshau Hoffert


00;19;30;07 - 00;19;32;29
Joshua Hoffert
Authors and many of.

00;19;32;29 - 00;19;34;08
Joshau Hoffert
Them being

00;19;34;11 - 00;19;38;28
Joshua Hoffert
Doctorate level researchers like vessel van Bessel van der.

00;19;38;28 - 00;19;42;15
Joshau Hoffert
Kolk, who wrote The Body Keeps the Score, a.

00;19;42;15 - 00;19;49;00
Joshua Hoffert
And who was very Bessel van der Kolk was very instrumental in developing the.

00;19;49;07 - 00;19;50;24
Joshau Hoffert
The the.

00;19;51;12 - 00;19;53;20
Joshua Hoffert
diagnosis for, PTSD.

00;19;53;27 - 00;19;55;04
Ken Hoffert
Right? Yeah. Veterans.

00;19;55;07 - 00;19;55;20
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah. He was.

00;19;55;20 - 00;19;58;23
Joshua Hoffert
Working with veterans and and seeing the impact of trauma on.

00;19;58;23 - 00;19;59;28
Joshau Hoffert
The brain.

00;20;00;00 - 00;20;05;24
Joshua Hoffert
And, and so his the body, the book the body keeps the score is very helpful for understanding that.

00;20;05;27 - 00;20;06;22
Joshau Hoffert


00;20;06;25 - 00;20;08;00
Joshua Hoffert
We've got we have.

00;20;08;00 - 00;20;08;27
Joshau Hoffert


00;20;08;28 - 00;20;10;29
Joshua Hoffert
Peter Levine, who's I think he's an.

00;20;10;29 - 00;20;11;24
Joshau Hoffert
Avowed.

00;20;11;26 - 00;20;12;23
Joshua Hoffert
Agnostic or.

00;20;12;23 - 00;20;16;26
Joshau Hoffert
Atheist, but he's a,

00;20;16;28 - 00;20;17;24
Joshua Hoffert
I pretty sure he's a.

00;20;17;24 - 00;20;18;26
Joshau Hoffert
Doctorate, but.

00;20;18;29 - 00;20;19;23
Joshua Hoffert
He is definitely.

00;20;19;25 - 00;20;22;09
Joshau Hoffert
A therapist. and he's written.

00;20;22;09 - 00;20;23;10
Joshua Hoffert
A book, Waking the Tiger.

00;20;23;10 - 00;20;25;14
Joshau Hoffert
Talking about the way that,

00;20;25;22 - 00;20;28;00
Joshua Hoffert
especially looking at our fight and flight.

00;20;28;00 - 00;20;29;06
Joshau Hoffert
Response.

00;20;29;09 - 00;20;30;07
Joshua Hoffert
Trauma and.

00;20;30;07 - 00;20;31;11
Joshau Hoffert
The need for healing there.

00;20;31;17 - 00;20;40;24
Joshua Hoffert
And so we're we're we're pulling. What I'm trying to say is we're pulling from a wide variety of sources when we're presenting the material that we're about to present, especially over the next 20 episodes or so.

00;20;40;26 - 00;20;41;27
Joshau Hoffert


00;20;42;05 - 00;20;54;20
Joshua Hoffert
but with that said, not everybody, not each one of these schools of thought are in agreement. Right? So this is a neuroscience is a relatively new field of study in the sense of.

00;20;54;22 - 00;20;59;24
Joshau Hoffert
You know, anything that's being studied today is not relatively new in the sense of all of humanity in human history.

00;20;59;24 - 00;21;02;16
Joshua Hoffert
Right, right. So.

00;21;02;28 - 00;21;03;13
Joshau Hoffert
so.

00;21;03;13 - 00;21;10;14
Joshua Hoffert
It's not so much that we're going this is everything that you need to know. We're trying to distill a number of different things.

00;21;10;14 - 00;21;23;01
Joshau Hoffert
Down into a helpful way of thinking that would impact you, and would give you insight into the way your brain works, your body works, and how Christ comes informs us in the midst of that. So. Right. That's what we're saying. Yeah.

00;21;23;01 - 00;21;26;16
Joshua Hoffert
So so you may read this and go, well, that's not how.

00;21;26;16 - 00;21;27;03
Joshau Hoffert
I think of it.

00;21;27;03 - 00;21;29;27
Joshua Hoffert
Well that's fine, but we're trying to tell you, we.

00;21;29;27 - 00;21;35;06
Joshau Hoffert
Also have studied and researched this. So, so take it, take it in that sense.

00;21;35;08 - 00;21;39;02
Ken Hoffert
And we're also aware that there are different opinions.

00;21;39;04 - 00;21;39;21
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah. Yeah.

00;21;39;21 - 00;21;41;13
Ken Hoffert
That's true science. Yeah. It's not.

00;21;41;15 - 00;21;41;24
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah.

00;21;41;28 - 00;21;50;24
Ken Hoffert
Something that everybody agrees on. But. So walk with us as you will.

00;21;51;00 - 00;21;52;08
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah that's right, that's right.

00;21;52;08 - 00;21;54;18
Joshua Hoffert
But there's, there's some very good.

00;21;54;21 - 00;21;56;01
Joshau Hoffert
Information out there.

00;21;57;25 - 00;21;58;28
Ken Hoffert
that

00;21;59;00 - 00;22;24;02
Joshau Hoffert
That is, that is really helpful for understanding these things. But I'm like, I was saying the Gilchrist, the master and his emissary, that's I've been, working through that book, and it's. I mean, it's a loaded book. It's like, every pages dense. but it's really fascinating when he talks about the, the popular notion of the right left divide of the brain and what the actual implications of that is and what it's actually like.

00;22;24;02 - 00;22;24;23
Joshau Hoffert
Because the popular.

00;22;24;23 - 00;22;26;17
Joshua Hoffert
Notion, the popular notion is never right.

00;22;26;17 - 00;22;27;16
Joshau Hoffert
By the way.

00;22;27;18 - 00;22;31;08
Joshua Hoffert
So yeah, pretty much yes. It's pretty much yes. It's never.

00;22;31;08 - 00;22;32;26
Joshau Hoffert
Right. okay.

00;22;32;26 - 00;22;38;16
Joshua Hoffert
So let's let's dive into this just so people understand, and we'll just kind of talk.

00;22;38;16 - 00;22;39;15
Joshau Hoffert
Through some of these things.

00;22;39;15 - 00;22;45;22
Joshua Hoffert
There. Basically, when it comes to the development of the brain, we see things in four different.

00;22;45;22 - 00;22;47;22
Joshau Hoffert
Layers and,

00;22;47;24 - 00;23;14;25
Joshua Hoffert
Four different stages of development. And the brain and the way the brain develops, develops that also reflects as it as it should, this stages of maturity in a person's life. And so we're going to go through each individual center of the brain that develops and each stage of life as it reflects in that center. But what we want to talk about today is just the the basic overview of the four stages are the four, the four levels of the brain in the four levels are the brain.

00;23;15;00 - 00;23;21;12
Ken Hoffert
Stages of it's the stages of development. Yeah, yeah. So just not talking about going over about a 2020. Yes.

00;23;21;14 - 00;23;23;16
Joshua Hoffert
Yes. It's it is depending on your.

00;23;23;16 - 00;23;26;15
Joshau Hoffert
Male or female. Right. Because the female brain is.

00;23;26;15 - 00;23;29;00
Joshua Hoffert
More fully formed around.

00;23;29;00 - 00;23;32;16
Joshau Hoffert
The age of 18. The male brain is more fully formed around the age of 25.

00;23;32;18 - 00;23;34;18
Joshua Hoffert
But, so those are four parts.

00;23;34;18 - 00;23;35;01
Ken Hoffert
Five.

00;23;35;05 - 00;23;35;20
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah.

00;23;35;20 - 00;23;44;29
Joshua Hoffert
That's a we're still we're always we're always trying to grow. So we're always trying to mature because we're stuck in fart jokes. Yes.

00;23;45;01 - 00;23;46;02
Ken Hoffert
But they aren't good jokes.

00;23;46;03 - 00;23;54;20
Joshua Hoffert
They are good jokes. You know, like, right. My six year old farts and I laugh at it still. So my wife rolls her eyes and I laugh.

00;23;55;20 - 00;24;03;09
Joshau Hoffert
exactly. Yeah. That's right. So we're we're kind of, sub primal, I guess, in some sense. Men are.

00;24;03;15 - 00;24;04;11
Ken Hoffert
So much fun to do.

00;24;04;11 - 00;24;06;10
Joshau Hoffert
It. Yeah. That's right, someone does. Yeah.

00;24;06;16 - 00;24;13;08
Joshua Hoffert
So the the four distinct parts, thinking through each one, we think through each one is a level because of the stage of development.

00;24;13;10 - 00;24;14;23
Joshau Hoffert
And

00;24;14;25 - 00;24;33;25
Joshua Hoffert
And, and it's actually is a layer of the brain. The first layer of the brain is the thalamus is the thalamus. And the thalamus is part of the limbic system. We're talking more to the base level of the brain. It's the first part of the brain that really starts to develop in a child's infancy. And and there's more parts than just the thalamus.

00;24;33;25 - 00;24;42;20
Joshua Hoffert
But we kind of sum up all the parts by the statement the thalamus. So we're not going to deal with every single part of the brain. Some are bigger, some are smaller than others. You know, there's the.

00;24;42;20 - 00;24;46;21
Joshau Hoffert
Hypothalamus, there's the pituitary gland, there's all these other things.

00;24;46;23 - 00;24;49;08
Joshua Hoffert
But so we're say the thalamus is one of the or is.

00;24;49;08 - 00;24;49;27
Joshau Hoffert
One of the.

00;24;50;04 - 00;25;00;11
Joshua Hoffert
First parts of the brain that develops. And it's it's basically called the attachment center of the brain. I think Wilder calls it the joy center of the brain. it's the it's.

00;25;00;11 - 00;25;01;25
Ken Hoffert
The joy centers of.

00;25;01;25 - 00;25;06;23
Joshau Hoffert
The term. Okay. Well, all right, so we'll get some of the things. All right. so.

00;25;06;23 - 00;25;09;00
Joshua Hoffert
The attachment center is one of the first places.

00;25;09;00 - 00;25;12;24
Joshau Hoffert
Of the brain that develops. And, and the.

00;25;12;24 - 00;25;21;24
Joshua Hoffert
Second layer of the brain would be where we'd find the amygdala, and the amygdala is where you find your fight or flight response.

00;25;21;27 - 00;25;29;14
Joshau Hoffert
So that's the response center of the brain. The, yeah. The fight or flight response. and.

00;25;29;14 - 00;25;34;20
Joshua Hoffert
Then the fourth layer of the brain is the singular cortex and.

00;25;34;23 - 00;25;36;28
Joshau Hoffert
The. So now we're starting to get into.

00;25;37;05 - 00;25;38;02
Joshua Hoffert
The third, sorry, third.

00;25;38;02 - 00;25;40;10
Joshau Hoffert
Level. Yeah. So jump from second to fourth.

00;25;40;13 - 00;25;44;04
Joshua Hoffert
The third layer of the brain's singular cortex. And that is.

00;25;44;04 - 00;25;51;04
Joshau Hoffert
Called the attunement center, of the brain. And, and I'll explain why they're called those things in just a second.

00;25;51;04 - 00;25;59;01
Joshua Hoffert
And the prefrontal prefrontal cortex is the last layer of the brain that develops. And that's the highest layer of the brain that develops.

00;25;59;01 - 00;26;06;01
Joshau Hoffert
And that is called the executive center. And so we've got the the attachment center. We've got the fight.

00;26;06;01 - 00;26;07;09
Joshua Hoffert
Or flight center.

00;26;07;26 - 00;26;13;20
Joshau Hoffert
we've got the attunement center and we have the executive center. so those.

00;26;13;20 - 00;26;19;08
Joshua Hoffert
Are, those are the, the rough four layers, and each one corresponds to an actual physical location.

00;26;19;08 - 00;26;20;12
Joshau Hoffert
In the brain.

00;26;20;14 - 00;26;23;00
Joshua Hoffert
And each one develops at different stages in.

00;26;23;00 - 00;26;27;08
Joshau Hoffert
A person's life. right. Yeah.

00;26;27;11 - 00;26;29;29
Ken Hoffert
Yeah. Because a baby is not doing trigonometry.

00;26;30;02 - 00;26;33;05
Joshua Hoffert
Exactly. Trigonometry would be an executive center function.

00;26;33;11 - 00;26;36;28
Joshau Hoffert
It would not be a attachment center function. What a baby.

00;26;36;28 - 00;26;38;17
Joshua Hoffert
Needs to grow and develop is.

00;26;38;17 - 00;26;44;16
Joshau Hoffert
Different than what a, 20 year old male or female need to grow and develop.

00;26;44;18 - 00;26;46;24
Ken Hoffert
Don't think. And trigonometry.

00;26;46;26 - 00;26;47;21
Joshua Hoffert
Well, I guess, you know.

00;26;47;27 - 00;26;49;24
Ken Hoffert
Yeah. What you're doing or something.

00;26;49;24 - 00;26;55;10
Joshua Hoffert
Or if you're there, you're an appraiser. You're supposed to. You're supposed to. All right.

00;26;55;10 - 00;26;57;25
Joshau Hoffert
Need these things? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;26;57;26 - 00;26;59;11
Joshua Hoffert
You use these things more than most.

00;26;59;11 - 00;27;05;10
Joshau Hoffert
People would anyway. So, yeah. so yeah, we've got.

00;27;05;10 - 00;27;21;16
Joshua Hoffert
The, those, the four layers. And then something to say about each one of those layers is, those, those layers actually they are impacted by trauma in different ways, impacted by.

00;27;21;17 - 00;27;23;28
Joshau Hoffert
Development in different ways.

00;27;25;14 - 00;27;32;16
Joshua Hoffert
trauma impacts, each one of the centers at different stages of development and different ages and different ways.

00;27;32;18 - 00;27;34;06
Joshau Hoffert
And

00;27;34;09 - 00;27;36;20
Joshua Hoffert
And so and they and they.

00;27;36;22 - 00;27;38;00
Joshau Hoffert
The.

00;27;38;02 - 00;27;38;23
Ken Hoffert


00;27;38;25 - 00;27;45;17
Joshua Hoffert
The outworking of that later in life, changes how we respond to certain.

00;27;45;17 - 00;27;47;12
Joshau Hoffert
Stimuli based on.

00;27;48;00 - 00;27;51;08
Joshua Hoffert
about what portion of the brain, what stage.

00;27;51;08 - 00;27;54;05
Joshau Hoffert
Of development and what was needed and what the outworking.

00;27;54;05 - 00;27;57;23
Joshua Hoffert
Of that, the kind of things that we need healing from differ based on.

00;27;57;23 - 00;27;58;29
Joshau Hoffert
What happened to us and what time.

00;27;58;29 - 00;28;09;24
Ken Hoffert
And we might want to say it at the, that trauma in the sense of so it I would say it and it informs our choices and in the sense that.

00;28;09;24 - 00;28;10;12
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah.

00;28;10;14 - 00;28;29;04
Ken Hoffert
Shapes them. We have trauma and trauma will say not that it speaks, but, trauma will will, will give you that thought thrown in a fight or fight or flight situation. Trauma will say danger. Danger. Go.

00;28;29;06 - 00;28;29;27
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah.

00;28;29;29 - 00;28;47;20
Ken Hoffert
Even though there might not be danger. But but the response will be informed by previous experiences and and yeah, that that both the brain and the body have, maintained they've kept. Yeah. Over the course of maybe decades.

00;28;47;23 - 00;28;49;05
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah. That's right, that's right.

00;28;49;05 - 00;28;50;13
Joshua Hoffert
And, and all that stuff is.

00;28;50;13 - 00;28;53;24
Joshau Hoffert
Stuff we'll get into. Yeah. at a greater depth.

00;28;54;00 - 00;28;56;20
Joshua Hoffert
So basically the way that the brain is functioning.

00;28;56;20 - 00;28;58;02
Joshau Hoffert
On a consistent basis.

00;28;58;02 - 00;28;59;08
Joshua Hoffert
And again, we're trying to.

00;28;59;09 - 00;29;02;19
Joshau Hoffert
Simplify so it's easier to understand, is.

00;29;02;19 - 00;29;14;09
Joshua Hoffert
That in, in the layers of your brain actually the, the, the first layer, the thalamus, the attachment center actually serves to feed external stimuli to the rest of the.

00;29;14;09 - 00;29;15;17
Joshau Hoffert
Centers of the brain.

00;29;15;20 - 00;29;30;11
Joshua Hoffert
So it actually any anything that happens to you goes through each of those layers and it goes, it's a split second, you know, it's like it's happening faster than the speed of thought. And that's why we tend to respond or tend to react to situations rather.

00;29;30;11 - 00;29;32;08
Joshau Hoffert
Than measurably respond.

00;29;32;08 - 00;29;34;22
Joshua Hoffert
Or we react and then have to adjust our.

00;29;34;22 - 00;29;35;10
Joshau Hoffert
Reaction.

00;29;35;10 - 00;29;39;09
Joshua Hoffert
Because we get to the executive function, which would be the level of conscious thought.

00;29;39;09 - 00;29;40;09
Joshau Hoffert
Which is the also called.

00;29;40;09 - 00;29;44;12
Joshua Hoffert
The identity center. That's when we start to reason our response rather.

00;29;44;12 - 00;29;50;15
Joshau Hoffert
Than react out of, out of the pain and wounding that is actually resident in the other centers of the brain.

00;29;50;17 - 00;30;02;14
Joshua Hoffert
So when it comes to the way that the brain filters information or external stimuli, it starts in the thalamus, which is the attachment center, the thalamus. Bessel van der Kolk calls the thalamus the smoke detector.

00;30;02;14 - 00;30;03;11
Joshau Hoffert
Of the brain.

00;30;03;14 - 00;30;25;07
Joshua Hoffert
So it's like, is there is there something happening? Right. Is there something happening? And and again, we'll get into this later. But if depending on the attachment center, depending on the type of attachment that has been developed, now we're getting into attachment theory, which we'll have a whole nother episode on.

00;30;25;09 - 00;30;27;19
Ken Hoffert
The healthy versus unhealthy etc..

00;30;27;19 - 00;30;30;09
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. Well there's, there's, there's three basic.

00;30;30;09 - 00;30;37;10
Joshau Hoffert
Styles of attachment, right. For if you if you separate two of them out, we'll talk about that later.

00;30;37;12 - 00;30;39;29
Ken Hoffert
I think it's helpful to separate the two. It.

00;30;40;03 - 00;30;41;01
Joshau Hoffert
Yes it is. Yeah.

00;30;41;01 - 00;30;55;21
Joshua Hoffert
So if depending on how the attachment center has been formed, will tell you how the thalamus reacts to the smoke, how the smoke detector reacts. Right. Is that that we had you just yesterday actually.

00;30;57;14 - 00;30;58;11
Joshau Hoffert
my mother.

00;30;58;11 - 00;30;59;24
Joshua Hoffert
In law dropped off.

00;30;59;27 - 00;31;01;16
Joshau Hoffert
A,

00;31;02;04 - 00;31;06;18
Joshua Hoffert
a my son got a stuffed animal for his sixth birthday.

00;31;06;18 - 00;31;10;06
Joshau Hoffert
The nose of it fell off. The next day, my mother in law went.

00;31;10;08 - 00;31;17;15
Joshua Hoffert
Exchanged it and brought it back. Yesterday, when she was, When she was bringing it back, the smoke detector in her house went off.

00;31;17;18 - 00;31;20;21
Joshau Hoffert
Right. So, you know, good illustration of the story.

00;31;20;24 - 00;31;24;16
Joshua Hoffert
So I had to go upstairs, which is where it because one of the smoke detector upstairs was.

00;31;24;16 - 00;31;25;21
Joshau Hoffert
Going off, going.

00;31;25;21 - 00;31;37;22
Joshua Hoffert
Sniffing around. What's happening? Right. Smoke detectors gone off. Now I'm investigating. Find out why we a found it. Yeah, exactly. And come to find out, the reason why it's gone off is.

00;31;37;27 - 00;31;42;18
Joshau Hoffert
It's low in batteries. And so now I've got to remove it.

00;31;42;20 - 00;31;43;07
Ken Hoffert
Yeah, yeah.

00;31;43;08 - 00;31;58;06
Joshua Hoffert
Not danger, but because there was a a problem in the system, it alerted me to something that actually wasn't a threat. Yeah. Right. So this is, this is where when there's a problem in the attachment center, it begins to alert me to something.

00;31;58;06 - 00;31;59;15
Joshau Hoffert
That might not be a threat.

00;31;59;17 - 00;32;02;28
Joshua Hoffert
Right. And so I've got to remove the battery and now solve the problem.

00;32;02;28 - 00;32;03;26
Joshau Hoffert
In the smoke.

00;32;03;26 - 00;32;09;01
Joshua Hoffert
In the smoke detector is a good analogy for when the amygdala is, or when the thalamus is not.

00;32;09;01 - 00;32;13;18
Joshau Hoffert
Responding in the way that it's designed to respond.

00;32;13;21 - 00;32;14;03
Joshua Hoffert
I had this.

00;32;14;03 - 00;32;15;29
Joshau Hoffert
Thought one time, actually, Deb.

00;32;16;01 - 00;32;21;16
Joshua Hoffert
Is when you think of Adam and Eve in the garden,

00;32;21;18 - 00;32;24;10
Joshau Hoffert
And and. Well, we might have to get there.

00;32;24;17 - 00;32;26;28
Joshua Hoffert
I'm just. Let's get there.

00;32;26;28 - 00;32;29;17
Joshau Hoffert
In a second. I'll revisit that if I remember, too.

00;32;29;23 - 00;32;41;29
Joshua Hoffert
So the thalamus feeds the information now to the amygdala. And the amygdala is the fight or flight center. And so now it's determining whether this thing is a threat and how I'm going to.

00;32;41;29 - 00;32;43;14
Joshau Hoffert
Respond to this thing.

00;32;43;16 - 00;32;47;17
Joshua Hoffert
Right. So I've got the warning signs have gone off because something has happened.

00;32;48;01 - 00;32;48;25
Joshau Hoffert
someone is.

00;32;48;25 - 00;33;09;15
Joshua Hoffert
Is yelled at me from the side of the street right now. So now I've got my I've got my, my thalamus has gone. There's something happening right now. My amygdala goes, do I run or do I fight, right? What is the actual threat? Yeah. And or is it a threat or is.

00;33;09;15 - 00;33;10;26
Ken Hoffert
It a threat? Right. You have to determine.

00;33;10;26 - 00;33;25;25
Joshua Hoffert
Whether or not it's right. Because it could be a it could be someone who's mad at me, or it could be a friend that's just seen me. And so now I've now I've got to. So it's my thalamus is feeding information up to my amygdala now. Now my amygdala is going is this a threat. How do I respond.

00;33;26;01 - 00;33;53;02
Joshua Hoffert
It's feeding information up to the singular cortex and the singular cortex is going, this is this a person I recognize? Is this someone who's part of my peer group? Is this someone who gets me, or is it someone who I don't recognize? Right. So it's feeding this external stimuli up through and and then eventually it gets to the prefrontal prefrontal cortex, which is what kind of person am I and how do I respond.

00;33;53;02 - 00;33;54;24
Joshau Hoffert
To these situations. Right.

00;33;54;26 - 00;34;03;23
Joshua Hoffert
So depending on the the stimuli, my brain has now gone through that function like in six times in a millisecond.

00;34;03;24 - 00;34;06;17
Joshau Hoffert
You know, it's it has.

00;34;06;19 - 00;34;14;25
Joshua Hoffert
And so it, it the brain feeds it through each of those stages to determine how I'm going to react and respond to anything that happens to me.

00;34;15;01 - 00;34;16;03
Ken Hoffert
All right.

00;34;16;06 - 00;34;41;04
Joshua Hoffert
And if in if anywhere in the process the system breaks down, then I don't know how to respond. And I'll respond in a way that I am not. I act like I'm not myself. When we when we talk about the process of spiritual formation, and we were talking about spiritual maturity and emotional health, is the ability to navigate the big Six emotions and recover yourself well.

00;34;41;04 - 00;34;45;10
Joshua Hoffert
When you have a breakdown in that process, it's very difficult to recover yourself.

00;34;45;12 - 00;34;46;17
Joshau Hoffert
Right. And and.

00;34;46;17 - 00;34;50;03
Joshua Hoffert
So that's when we're talking about the process the brain goes.

00;34;50;03 - 00;34;51;04
Joshau Hoffert
Through.

00;34;51;06 - 00;34;52;27
Joshua Hoffert
To tell you how to respond.

00;34;52;27 - 00;34;54;13
Joshau Hoffert
To a situation.

00;34;54;16 - 00;34;55;24
Joshua Hoffert
The way that the brain.

00;34;55;24 - 00;35;04;26
Joshau Hoffert
Grows, the way the brain develops will actually impact how you respond to the external stimuli. Yeah, yeah. Anything to add to that, pops?

00;35;04;28 - 00;35;21;24
Ken Hoffert
Well, I like the, the idea of a fast track and a slow track in the brain. Yes. And and that first, those first three are a fast track. Yes. Bom bom bom is just so quick factor.

00;35;21;25 - 00;35;22;29
Joshua Hoffert
Faster than conscious thought.

00;35;23;06 - 00;35;51;25
Ken Hoffert
Oh. Way faster. Yeah. And then you have the, the process of who am I and how do I respond to this sort of thing is a much slower track. Not I'm not okay. Not not in a, in a in the sense that it's slow but it's slower than that initial, track. So yeah, that's right. Track is a slower process where you have to go through more, stages within your, your context.

00;35;51;27 - 00;36;01;10
Ken Hoffert
How do I respond to this? Who am I who are this is how does this whole thing go? And then I put that that information together a little differently than I do the first portion of that.

00;36;01;10 - 00;36;01;20
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah.

00;36;01;21 - 00;36;03;08
Joshua Hoffert
It's like here's a different.

00;36;03;08 - 00;36;12;20
Ken Hoffert
Emotional or my, my un, what do you want to call unfiltered responses? boom. I'm there. And now I have to decide why am I there.

00;36;12;23 - 00;36;17;20
Joshua Hoffert
The there's here's a, here's an illustration. It's the difference between someone throws a.

00;36;17;20 - 00;36;21;24
Joshau Hoffert
Ball at you, you know, say it's a baseball, a hard baseball.

00;36;21;26 - 00;36;37;08
Joshua Hoffert
And you react whether you cover yourself up or if you're playing catch, you throw your hand up and you catch it. Whatever. Someone throws a ball at you and your body begins to react before you tell it to react. Right? That's the that's in the fast track.

00;36;37;08 - 00;36;39;18
Joshau Hoffert
You have a way of responding.

00;36;39;20 - 00;36;42;11
Joshua Hoffert
That you're just going to you're just going to react to what's.

00;36;42;11 - 00;36;42;29
Joshau Hoffert
Happening, and.

00;36;42;29 - 00;36;46;07
Ken Hoffert
Then you're going to say, wait, hey, why are you throwing this at me?

00;36;46;13 - 00;36;58;19
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. Or the or the other part of it is the difference means someone saying to you, hey, watch out right now you're an executive function. Who was it that said that to me? What are they talking about? Let me examine the.

00;36;58;19 - 00;37;00;18
Joshau Hoffert
Circumstances and then I'm hit by the ball.

00;37;00;25 - 00;37;04;25
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, right. Yeah. So that that would be an illustration of the difference.

00;37;04;25 - 00;37;05;23
Joshau Hoffert
Between the two.

00;37;05;25 - 00;37;08;28
Joshua Hoffert
Reacting to the stimuli versus someone shouting at me.

00;37;08;28 - 00;37;09;24
Joshau Hoffert
And now I've got a.

00;37;09;27 - 00;37;10;18
Joshua Hoffert
Process and.

00;37;10;18 - 00;37;13;28
Joshau Hoffert
Figure it out. What's happening? So

00;37;14;01 - 00;37;31;21
Joshua Hoffert
So that that's the, that when you're, you know, you wake up in the morning, you roll over your spouse's in bed beside you. Here's an external stimuli, right. Oh, this is a safe person. Or maybe they're not a safe person, depending on what's happening within a relationship or what. Let's hope they are. But you know, I also know some people are in.

00;37;31;28 - 00;37;33;11
Joshau Hoffert
Difficult places, right?

00;37;33;13 - 00;37;55;07
Joshua Hoffert
So right off the bat, your amygdala, right from the get go, you're well, your thalamus is feeding information to your amygdala. And you may wake up and you may be immediately heightened tension because this person isn't a safe person. So now I've got my stimuli. The smoke detector is gone. Something's here. I know I need to respond. And now what kind of people am I?

00;37;55;07 - 00;37;59;16
Joshua Hoffert
What? Who are my people around me and how to? And then who am I and how do I.

00;37;59;16 - 00;38;00;18
Joshau Hoffert
Respond to this? So that.

00;38;00;18 - 00;38;04;00
Joshua Hoffert
Process happens and and I don't.

00;38;04;00 - 00;38;08;02
Joshau Hoffert
Even know how many times a day you could say. But it's like it's constant.

00;38;08;05 - 00;38;08;28
Joshua Hoffert
Limitless.

00;38;08;29 - 00;38;10;23
Joshau Hoffert
How many times it happens. Right.

00;38;10;26 - 00;38;27;13
Joshua Hoffert
So so then if you understand that the reason I react when I see this particular person, you know, maybe it's someone who's hurt you, maybe it's someone who loves you. The reason I react is because your brain has gone through that process. And now.

00;38;27;16 - 00;38;28;00
Joshau Hoffert
My.

00;38;28;06 - 00;38;48;29
Joshua Hoffert
If it's someone who I'm anxious around my palms gets sweaty, my heart rate increases because my thalamus has seen the person detected that there's an issue here. My amygdala has said this person's a threat. You know, they might not be a threat, but your amygdala says they're a threat. And, so now certain.

00;38;48;29 - 00;38;49;19
Ken Hoffert
Chemicals.

00;38;49;24 - 00;39;08;18
Joshua Hoffert
And it releases certain chemicals in your autonomic nervous system. and it just it's just happens. It's like, if you, for instance, if you have a, you've gone through a situation with friends and the friends have betrayed.

00;39;08;18 - 00;39;12;20
Joshau Hoffert
You and you're very hurt. All right, let's just say that. Right.

00;39;12;23 - 00;39;15;28
Joshua Hoffert
So now you've got another person who's presenting themself in.

00;39;15;28 - 00;39;17;10
Joshau Hoffert
A friendly way.

00;39;17;12 - 00;39;38;28
Joshua Hoffert
Well, what what's happening in your brain? Because if you have an unresolved, pain from that wounding, what's happening in your brain is that that new person is like a bear charging down at you. You don't know how threatening they are, but you know that there's something you need to be worried about. That person may be, very generic.

00;39;38;28 - 00;39;57;03
Joshua Hoffert
There's no they're not presented any reason to not trust them, to not engage with them or to not walk with them, but right off the bat, when they start to be friendly with you, your autonomic nervous system goes because your smoke detector has said, hey, there's a friendly person. They're a threat because friendly people have hurt.

00;39;57;03 - 00;39;57;25
Joshau Hoffert
Me before.

00;39;57;26 - 00;40;09;21
Joshua Hoffert
So I can't trust them. So now immediately my my body is responding as if a bear is running to me. And now I don't know how to react to that person. And I tend to turn turn away from them and turn them off rather.

00;40;09;21 - 00;40;11;18
Joshau Hoffert
Than engage in the possibility of friendship.

00;40;11;24 - 00;40;33;06
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, so that's a simple example of how that process actually either can hinder my relationships or help my relationships. So if I have healthy relationships, if I have a healthy, expectation, then I see a friendly person. Their face lights up when they see me, my face lights up because they're not a threat. Now my amygdala is fed up to my singular cortex.

00;40;33;08 - 00;40;39;25
Joshua Hoffert
They're not a threat. Oh, these are my people. These are the people that I love. They love me. And now my prefrontal cortex goes, this is.

00;40;39;25 - 00;40;41;07
Joshau Hoffert
Someone that I can engage with.

00;40;41;14 - 00;40;44;11
Joshua Hoffert
So that process is happening multiple times.

00;40;44;11 - 00;40;50;13
Ken Hoffert
A second choice center is yes, yes, it's a place of joy, which is the only part of the brain that actually continues to grow.

00;40;50;15 - 00;41;13;19
Joshua Hoffert
So okay. Right. And that's another thing that we'll get into. So that's the that's basically the way that, your brain is working now. I think we can let's spend just a couple more minutes on this. I think when you look at the teachings of Jesus, you see here, because I don't I'm relatively convinced that Jesus, thoroughly understood the human brain.

00;41;13;22 - 00;41;24;24
Joshua Hoffert
And, when he talks about, for instance, when he talks about the, the thoughts of the Pharisees needed to be cut at the base of the tree, right? When he says that to.

00;41;25;09 - 00;41;27;15
Joshau Hoffert
in, in,

00;41;27;17 - 00;41;30;02
Joshua Hoffert
The he talks about the brood of vipers who need to.

00;41;30;13 - 00;41;30;22
Joshau Hoffert
cut.

00;41;30;22 - 00;41;32;19
Joshua Hoffert
Off the base of the tree.

00;41;32;22 - 00;41;35;21
Joshau Hoffert
And, anyway,

00;41;35;23 - 00;41;43;16
Joshua Hoffert
And he says that, anyway, he says it. Okay. Really? In one take it out. Yeah, yeah. The root needs.

00;41;43;16 - 00;41;44;19
Joshau Hoffert
To be taken out. Yeah.

00;41;44;21 - 00;42;09;06
Joshua Hoffert
And and he compares the thought process to a tree. Right. Well, when, when you understand the makeup of the brain, the actually the, the, the, the thing that binds our neurons together, the synaptic cleft, which, which connects neurons together. When you look at the makeup of a neuron, it it's called a dendro on that one of the portions of the neuron.

00;42;09;06 - 00;42;11;05
Joshua Hoffert
Because it looks like a tree, it looks exactly.

00;42;11;05 - 00;42;12;01
Joshau Hoffert
Like a tree.

00;42;12;03 - 00;42;26;04
Joshua Hoffert
And so the tree branches grow out, from the neuron that, and they're called Dan drones. And then they have dendrites, which is part of the synaptic cleft which connects to other neurons. So when, when you people have described the makeup of the brain, when you actually look at it at.

00;42;26;04 - 00;42;26;29
Joshau Hoffert
A, at a,

00;42;27;06 - 00;42;53;18
Joshua Hoffert
Microscopic level, as a collection of trees branching together. So Jesus says, cut the root out at the, at the base of it, and you're going, oh, actually, that's a pretty apt description of changing the way that you think, even on a subatomic level. Yeah, yeah. And which is really interesting. So I think there's something to be said for how the Bible presents these things in the mysterious.

00;42;53;20 - 00;42;54;08
Joshau Hoffert
Way.

00;42;54;10 - 00;42;58;17
Joshua Hoffert
That. Did Jesus have a microscope and investigate the brain? No. But did he understand.

00;42;58;24 - 00;43;10;28
Joshau Hoffert
The makeup of the physiological anatomy of a person? Probably. so I guess it depends on how much you think his knowledge was limitless as a man. So anyway, that's another.

00;43;11;00 - 00;43;12;03
Ken Hoffert
Discussion for another.

00;43;12;03 - 00;43;13;12
Joshua Hoffert
Day. A discussion for another day.

00;43;13;12 - 00;43;14;08
Joshau Hoffert
Anyway.

00;43;14;23 - 00;43;17;20
Joshua Hoffert
in any case, he presents, he presents.

00;43;17;22 - 00;43;18;18
Joshau Hoffert


00;43;18;27 - 00;43;23;25
Joshua Hoffert
practices and teachings. That would be very helpful for addressing each one of.

00;43;23;25 - 00;43;25;25
Joshau Hoffert
Those layers of the brain.

00;43;25;27 - 00;43;27;25
Joshua Hoffert
And for addressing trauma.

00;43;27;25 - 00;43;32;05
Joshau Hoffert
In each one of those layers of the brain. And a good place to codify, that is, in the Lord's Prayer.

00;43;32;08 - 00;43;45;13
Joshua Hoffert
And because he because in the Lord's Prayer, he actually addresses all four layers and the the felt needs of all four layers and the experience of trauma and how that impacts all four layers in the simplicity of.

00;43;45;13 - 00;43;46;15
Joshau Hoffert
The Lord's Prayer.

00;43;46;17 - 00;43;50;21
Joshua Hoffert
So and in give us this day our daily bread.

00;43;50;23 - 00;43;51;03
Joshau Hoffert
Right.

00;43;51;03 - 00;43;54;25
Joshua Hoffert
This he's he is addressing the attachment center who will take care of.

00;43;54;25 - 00;43;55;03
Joshau Hoffert
Me.

00;43;55;09 - 00;43;56;10
Joshua Hoffert
Who will sustain me and.

00;43;56;10 - 00;43;58;25
Joshau Hoffert
Nourish me. That's what the Attachment Center asks, right?

00;43;58;28 - 00;44;13;22
Joshua Hoffert
Give us this day our daily bread. God will sustain you and nourish me. And and the Attachment center is malnourished when there's no strong attachment. And so let me give us this day our daily bread is let me expect to be richly attached to the provision that God will provide.

00;44;13;25 - 00;44;28;18
Ken Hoffert
Because one of the things that that that when that portion of the brain is developing, one of the things that's a required what it needs in order to move to the next level is to understand how it how I can receive.

00;44;28;20 - 00;44;29;03
Joshau Hoffert
Yes.

00;44;29;03 - 00;44;32;02
Ken Hoffert
From others. How do I receive the things I need?

00;44;32;16 - 00;44;32;25
Joshau Hoffert
yeah.

00;44;32;26 - 00;44;46;13
Ken Hoffert
And that's right. And some people never get past that or never really get that, developed correctly. Yeah. And so it, it shifts or changes the way that they react, react later in life. But that's another topic.

00;44;46;16 - 00;44;47;09
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah. Yeah.

00;44;47;21 - 00;45;02;01
Joshua Hoffert
next layer is deliver us from evil. All right. Will I be protected and safe? Yeah, that addresses that delight. Well, I deliver us from evil. That's the fight or flight response, right? So give us me this day and my daily bread. I've got an attachment center.

00;45;02;01 - 00;45;09;19
Joshau Hoffert
That's being developed, when I, when I'm in and we'll talk about, attachment and salvation, at some point.

00;45;09;19 - 00;45;11;28
Joshua Hoffert
But now I've got deliver us from evil.

00;45;11;29 - 00;45;12;29
Joshau Hoffert
Who can I trust and.

00;45;13;03 - 00;45;14;18
Joshua Hoffert
Who can I trust. Exactly.

00;45;14;18 - 00;45;19;01
Joshau Hoffert
Yes, exactly. That's the fight or flight response. Yes. And then the the that's that.

00;45;19;01 - 00;45;20;20
Joshua Hoffert
Center of the brain. Then the next center.

00;45;20;20 - 00;45;23;27
Joshau Hoffert
Would be the,

00;45;24;06 - 00;45;27;28
Joshua Hoffert
cingulate cortex, singular cortex or cingulate cortex.

00;45;28;00 - 00;45;33;00
Joshau Hoffert
It's anyway, I think I, misspoke earlier and,

00;45;33;02 - 00;45;36;14
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. Forgive us, forgive us, our sins as we.

00;45;36;14 - 00;45;39;25
Joshau Hoffert
Forgive the sins of others. Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive the trespasses. Others.

00;45;40;02 - 00;45;41;22
Joshua Hoffert
That's the relational center, the attunement.

00;45;41;22 - 00;45;45;25
Joshau Hoffert
Center, the cingulate cortex. And, and so now.

00;45;45;25 - 00;45;50;11
Joshua Hoffert
What kind of people are we? And what am I people do? Well, we're forgiving people.

00;45;50;14 - 00;46;15;19
Ken Hoffert
Right? So that's pressing. That's what a teenager is doing. That's that next stage of the brain. Yeah. We're there. If you've ever noticed that your teen or or if you're teen, if you're that your teen begins to pull away. Yeah. And and hang out with their, with their friends and you wonder what's going on. the natural process is I'm looking to find out what are who my people are.

00;46;15;21 - 00;46;27;05
Ken Hoffert
Yeah. That's right. Who are we about. And so in a when the brain develops in a healthy way, then healthy and healthy development. So, I'm connecting with this kind of people. I know who my people are.

00;46;27;07 - 00;46;27;19
Joshau Hoffert
Right?

00;46;27;19 - 00;46;32;03
Ken Hoffert
When it's not healthy, well, we start making interesting choices.

00;46;32;06 - 00;46;42;09
Joshau Hoffert
We do? Yeah, exactly. So forgive us and we'll be forgiven. Is a is it is a prayer that addresses the need of the cingulate cortex. Right.

00;46;42;09 - 00;46;47;01
Joshua Hoffert
And then lead us not into temptation. Here's an area of the prayer that.

00;46;47;01 - 00;46;49;10
Joshau Hoffert
Deals with, the executive function.

00;46;49;15 - 00;47;05;11
Joshua Hoffert
Because now I'm dealing with, you know, dealing with temptation, the kind of things that come, I actually have to think through the kind of people who I am, who loves me, who gets me, who's around me and my love to my cherished. All these things. How do I, you know.

00;47;05;11 - 00;47;25;01
Ken Hoffert
Interact with people, the world around me. Yeah, right. Exactly. Was that a jolt when the brain hits the adult stage? Yes. then we are having to do deal with that, because when you get to that adult or parental stage. Yeah. you're looking at how do I how do I help other people form.

00;47;25;08 - 00;47;27;16
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah. That's right. Yeah, yeah. So there's a.

00;47;27;16 - 00;47;30;13
Ken Hoffert
Lot I know who I am so that I can help other people form.

00;47;30;18 - 00;47;31;09
Joshau Hoffert
Exactly.

00;47;31;16 - 00;47;35;03
Joshua Hoffert
So every every stage of the Lord's Prayer actually.

00;47;35;03 - 00;47;36;07
Joshau Hoffert
Addresses.

00;47;36;10 - 00;47;37;17
Joshua Hoffert
A particular felt.

00;47;37;18 - 00;47;39;15
Joshau Hoffert
Need in a particular portion of the brain.

00;47;39;21 - 00;47;42;01
Joshua Hoffert
And if and if you're if you if.

00;47;42;01 - 00;47;45;21
Joshau Hoffert
You know, if you have a, and a.

00;47;45;29 - 00;47;49;21
Joshua Hoffert
and everybody to some degree you're, you are malformed.

00;47;49;22 - 00;47;51;09
Joshau Hoffert
Right. Because it was we've.

00;47;51;11 - 00;47;55;01
Joshua Hoffert
As we said earlier, humanity has constantly organizing.

00;47;55;01 - 00;47;58;11
Joshau Hoffert
It in a way to try and mitigate the chaos around us. Right. And with.

00;47;58;11 - 00;47;59;12
Joshua Hoffert
That, chaos always.

00;47;59;12 - 00;48;03;07
Joshau Hoffert
Makes its way in, in some degree, to some degree or another. And to some people, it's a.

00;48;03;07 - 00;48;13;21
Joshua Hoffert
Much stronger degree. Sure. So why why do you come to the point where you need where you recognize you're have a string of broken relationships? You have a hard time opening up to people.

00;48;13;21 - 00;48;16;05
Joshau Hoffert
And, and you're going, I'm not happy, and I need.

00;48;16;05 - 00;48;21;05
Joshua Hoffert
Healing. or I'm not. I'm not happy in my marriage or my relationship now, and.

00;48;21;05 - 00;48;22;22
Joshau Hoffert
I can't figure out how to.

00;48;23;03 - 00;48;32;07
Joshua Hoffert
alleviate that. And I think I need healing. I'm wrestling with all these things. It's it it it goes right back to right pain carried over in one of these stages.

00;48;32;10 - 00;48;34;06
Joshau Hoffert
And, and the.

00;48;34;06 - 00;48;56;25
Joshua Hoffert
Way that trauma is impacted, one of those stages now with, with all of that said, these things can be healed. Sure. These things can be alleviated. And that's where I think that the the Lord's Prayer actually leads us to that conclusion, is that he's actually encouraging us to find a place of healing on the deepest level of brain trauma by leading us in this.

00;48;56;25 - 00;48;57;10
Joshau Hoffert
Is the way that.

00;48;57;10 - 00;49;02;23
Joshua Hoffert
You should pray. And he and he encourages that method of prayer from the secret place of.

00;49;02;23 - 00;49;06;09
Joshau Hoffert
Knowing God intimately and privately, like the very thing that comes.

00;49;06;09 - 00;49;06;25
Joshua Hoffert
Right.

00;49;06;27 - 00;49;07;02
Joshau Hoffert
Out.

00;49;07;02 - 00;49;09;08
Joshua Hoffert
Is, I think, going to the inner chamber.

00;49;09;10 - 00;49;31;15
Ken Hoffert
In this context, people might, depending on which side of that hole. I have, I'm going through a string of broken relationships. I'm going through this. I things don't seem to work out for me sort of thing versus the other side where I, I am I'm not going through all of that. So people on either side of that would look at the other person.

00;49;31;17 - 00;49;32;28
Ken Hoffert
Often this happens.

00;49;33;00 - 00;49;34;07
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. What's your problem say.

00;49;34;08 - 00;49;39;29
Ken Hoffert
Yeah. Like yeah. So so the person who's going through all the difficulties saying, how is it that you don't have these issues.

00;49;39;29 - 00;49;40;22
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah. That's right.

00;49;40;23 - 00;50;05;02
Ken Hoffert
You know why why is it that you know, you know, I have three friends that don't have these issues and ten friends that do. And then and then the people that aren't running through all those issues are looking at that person saying, why do you keep going through this stuff? I mean, what is it about you that you you just can't and it has to do with the formation, the development of those parts of the of our brain.

00;50;05;02 - 00;50;05;24
Joshau Hoffert
That's right.

00;50;05;27 - 00;50;34;18
Ken Hoffert
As we move along, that didn't get the things they needed, or they did get the things they needed and and the beauty is that some do and and I, I really appreciate that. I think Wilder said something that was always interesting to me that that, the about 60% of the, of Western culture, people in Western culture, don't get most of the things they need.

00;50;34;21 - 00;50;35;27
Joshau Hoffert
Right, right.

00;50;35;29 - 00;51;03;09
Ken Hoffert
You know, and, and so at least we got 40% that are getting more than, you know, getting a better chunk of them. And, and, the beauty is that as we learn about these things and we develop ways to walk in healing and, and we help one another, we can become more of that. We can increase that 40% more and more and more so that there's greater health in our in our culture and within our communities.

00;51;03;11 - 00;51;04;17
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah. That's right. We we.

00;51;04;17 - 00;51;05;23
Joshua Hoffert
Said in an earlier.

00;51;05;23 - 00;51;09;11
Joshau Hoffert
Episode that, you know, we talked about being able to stumble into maturity.

00;51;09;11 - 00;51;10;12
Joshua Hoffert
Well, you can see.

00;51;10;14 - 00;51;17;22
Joshau Hoffert
I hope you can see based on what we're talking about, that stumbling into maturity is a myth. You don't stumble into it, but the.

00;51;17;22 - 00;51;18;27
Joshua Hoffert
The right parameters.

00;51;18;27 - 00;51;22;13
Joshau Hoffert
Sometimes present themselves. And some people struggle.

00;51;22;13 - 00;51;22;25
Joshua Hoffert
Less.

00;51;22;25 - 00;51;27;08
Joshau Hoffert
And some people struggle more based on, family of origin. Their upbringing and all of that.

00;51;27;15 - 00;51;33;22
Joshua Hoffert
I will tell you, I will say one thing that is that there there is absolutely one thing that you can never.

00;51;33;22 - 00;51;40;08
Joshau Hoffert
Have happened without understanding this and having worked through this. And that's healthy, prophetic ministry.

00;51;40;11 - 00;51;41;16
Ken Hoffert
Well that's true.

00;51;41;18 - 00;51;42;04
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah. Yeah.

00;51;42;06 - 00;51;52;12
Joshua Hoffert
If if you not to say that a prophetic person needs to understand the concept, but you're never going to have healthy prophetic ministry if any of these four levels breaks down.

00;51;52;13 - 00;52;21;13
Ken Hoffert
Well, if the lens that you are seeing and hearing through is damaged or cracked, yep. Then you will see damaged and cracked things and assume that what you're seeing is accurate. Yeah, because, for a variety of reasons, but because it's revelation, you one would assume. Well, it can't be, I mean, it's from God, therefore it can't be wrong.

00;52;21;18 - 00;52;22;13
Joshau Hoffert
Right?

00;52;22;15 - 00;52;27;23
Ken Hoffert
Right. And maybe it's not wrong, but the filter you see it through is.

00;52;27;25 - 00;52;28;02
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah.

00;52;28;03 - 00;52;30;21
Ken Hoffert
Because then you communicate through that shelter.

00;52;30;23 - 00;52;32;16
Joshau Hoffert
Because of this okay.

00;52;32;18 - 00;52;56;28
Joshua Hoffert
Revelatory moment. You hear God speak, you have a you're you're presented with the opportunity to minister to a person prophetically. Right? Okay. Your thalamus is telling you what what situation you're in, right? I have a person in front of me okay, okay. My smoke detector has gone off. This impacts a spiritual gift because sometimes we tend to go, well, it's spiritual.

00;52;56;28 - 00;53;01;07
Joshua Hoffert
It's not. You know, this is this isn't part of the natural world. It's supernatural.

00;53;01;07 - 00;53;04;19
Ken Hoffert
This person has a beard, and bearded people have always hurt me.

00;53;04;20 - 00;53;13;05
Joshua Hoffert
Exactly. Right now, my thalamus is feeding something up to my fight or flight. And so now, right from the get go, before I even think about what God is saying to.

00;53;13;05 - 00;53;13;24
Joshau Hoffert
Them.

00;53;13;26 - 00;53;29;15
Joshua Hoffert
Right, I'm triggered. And if I don't understand the triggering process, if I haven't gone through a a season of healing, or if I wasn't lucky enough to be in a environment when I was growing up, or maybe I was lucky enough to be an environment I was growing up where I have a richly developed.

00;53;29;15 - 00;53;29;28
Joshau Hoffert
Attachment.

00;53;29;28 - 00;53;33;27
Joshua Hoffert
Center and my fight or flight isn't broken. But I understand how to.

00;53;33;27 - 00;53;35;16
Joshau Hoffert
Respond to a threat when it comes.

00;53;35;16 - 00;53;43;03
Joshua Hoffert
Right. If I if that system is not broken down, it's gonna be much easier to give this person an uplifting word that encourages them.

00;53;43;03 - 00;53;43;16
Joshau Hoffert
On the journey.

00;53;43;16 - 00;53;50;10
Joshua Hoffert
To the father. But if it is broken down, I'm going to read into the process. And again, on some level, everybody's system is broken down, right?

00;53;51;02 - 00;53;52;14
Joshau Hoffert
it and

00;53;52;16 - 00;54;05;24
Joshua Hoffert
I'm going to read through the process things into the moment that aren't there because of the way that my brain has been formed. So you can't have healthy prophetic ministry with the malformed brain. You can't have it. You can't.

00;54;05;27 - 00;54;06;26
Joshau Hoffert
And and.

00;54;06;26 - 00;54;11;19
Joshua Hoffert
Not understanding that and coming to grips with that is one of the reasons why we have prophetic.

00;54;11;19 - 00;54;22;20
Joshau Hoffert
Ministry. The way that it is today. And with the chaos that's ensued in the last ten years or so, and especially the last five years and,

00;54;22;23 - 00;54;28;11
Joshua Hoffert
It's because I think you have a bunch of malformed people who refuse to admit their malformed us come to the grips with it.

00;54;28;11 - 00;54;28;27
Joshau Hoffert
We need.

00;54;28;27 - 00;54;42;10
Joshua Hoffert
Help. We need healing as specially like like there's this kind of concept in, in prophetic ministry where it's infiltrated through this phrase, don't touch the Lord's anointed.

00;54;42;14 - 00;54;43;01
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah.

00;54;43;03 - 00;54;48;15
Joshua Hoffert
All right. So the prophet or the apostle or whoever's bringing the revelation is perfect.

00;54;48;15 - 00;54;49;16
Ken Hoffert
Pure revelation.

00;54;49;23 - 00;54;52;17
Joshua Hoffert
Yes. Is perfect. And you can't question it.

00;54;52;17 - 00;54;54;15
Joshau Hoffert
You can't question the person. No, no, no.

00;54;54;16 - 00;55;01;24
Joshua Hoffert
You can, because we know your brain isn't perfect and it's not formed perfect. And it needs to be formed.

00;55;01;25 - 00;55;03;03
Joshau Hoffert
Right. And if it's.

00;55;03;03 - 00;55;10;22
Joshua Hoffert
Not and it's never addressed, you're going to constantly have problems, especially within, you know, you're going to apply this to leadership structures.

00;55;10;22 - 00;55;13;10
Joshau Hoffert
You can apply this to anywhere. And it's just.

00;55;13;10 - 00;55;18;21
Joshua Hoffert
It's so it's it it needs to be our rudimentary understanding for.

00;55;18;21 - 00;55;21;20
Joshau Hoffert
Christian discipleship. It really needs to be.

00;55;21;22 - 00;55;38;09
Ken Hoffert
Well, and I think this is where and I don't want to get into a whole nother topic, but I'm just going to throw this out for, for later. Okay. Is that this is where, learning to interact with one another by keeping our relationships bigger than our problems.

00;55;38;12 - 00;55;39;03
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah.

00;55;39;06 - 00;56;21;24
Ken Hoffert
Is part of that whole healthy process of learning to grow interactively and in community in healthy ways, so that we learn to trust. Yeah. but if if I don't allow my relationships to be bigger than my problems. Yeah. The words I don't, I get past my problems because I know I can trust someone, but if I don't think I can ever trust them, and I keep letting the the relationships blow up and blow up and blow up and blow up, then my pure revelation is going to be tainted by these problems, and I'm going to have an anticipation that it will, that something will create a problem, and I'm going to protect myself in

00;56;21;24 - 00;56;36;24
Ken Hoffert
advance. Yeah. And when I protect myself in advance, I can pretty much guarantee you that my revelation that I got has been modified by my actions. with the world around me before I even got a chance to say anything.

00;56;36;29 - 00;56;38;18
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah. That's right, that's right.

00;56;38;21 - 00;56;40;24
Joshua Hoffert
Well, I doubt I think there's I mean, we could just.

00;56;40;24 - 00;56;47;25
Joshau Hoffert
Keep going on. There's so much we could say. about this, but suffice it to say, we'll just.

00;56;47;25 - 00;56;52;09
Joshua Hoffert
Say this. Your your the whole the process of being a human.

00;56;52;09 - 00;56;53;19
Joshau Hoffert
Being is a, is a.

00;56;53;23 - 00;56;57;05
Joshua Hoffert
Bodily process that's embodied within.

00;56;57;22 - 00;57;01;05
Joshau Hoffert
everyday life. And it's embodied within your physical.

00;57;01;08 - 00;57;01;26
Joshua Hoffert
Matter.

00;57;01;26 - 00;57;03;26
Joshau Hoffert
Of your flesh and.

00;57;04;10 - 00;57;08;17
Joshua Hoffert
every, every single stimuli you're approached with. You go through this.

00;57;08;19 - 00;57;10;08
Joshau Hoffert
And,

00;57;10;10 - 00;57;11;22
Joshua Hoffert
When the process breaks.

00;57;11;22 - 00;57;15;20
Joshau Hoffert
Down is where we find difficulties later in life.

00;57;15;22 - 00;57;18;06
Joshua Hoffert
And the need for healing presents itself.

00;57;18;09 - 00;57;21;03
Joshau Hoffert
And when we when we understand the way that.

00;57;21;06 - 00;57;26;21
Joshua Hoffert
Like if you have, attachment layer trauma.

00;57;26;23 - 00;57;28;24
Joshau Hoffert
There's a way of addressing that which would be.

00;57;28;24 - 00;57;29;18
Joshua Hoffert
Pre.

00;57;29;22 - 00;57;30;15
Joshau Hoffert


00;57;30;17 - 00;57;31;06
Joshua Hoffert
Cortical.

00;57;31;06 - 00;57;51;19
Joshau Hoffert
Which would be pre verbal. Typically there's a way of addressing that that's different than just having a friend talk you through some issues. Yeah. Yeah. And so when we understand these things it can be very helpful for recovering discipleship transformation and actually walking out the call of God on each individual's life.

00;57;51;21 - 00;57;58;12
Ken Hoffert
Or because you are a human being consisting of a body and all the other components.

00;57;58;14 - 00;57;59;02
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah, that.

00;57;59;02 - 00;58;15;13
Ken Hoffert
We've talked about that was made for an Earth existence so that you could celebrate the creator and celebrate one another. Yeah, but you're not a spirit just waiting to get the heck out of this horrible mess, right?

00;58;15;15 - 00;58;16;00
Joshau Hoffert
That's right.

00;58;16;00 - 00;58;26;03
Ken Hoffert
And get to heaven where everything is so much better. That's that's not a biblical way of looking at it. A previous one where I am not a helpful.

00;58;26;03 - 00;58;27;00
Joshau Hoffert
Way at all either.

00;58;27;00 - 00;58;29;18
Ken Hoffert
No, no, because I'm just looking for escape.

00;58;29;20 - 00;58;30;17
Joshau Hoffert
Yeah. That's right.

00;58;30;21 - 00;58;32;12
Ken Hoffert
And that's not looking for healing.

00;58;32;14 - 00;58;40;19
Joshau Hoffert
And that's where on some level we'll probably would. We've talked about having a episode on worldviews. Yeah. because it, it's this.

00;58;40;19 - 00;58;41;14
Joshua Hoffert
The stuff becomes.

00;58;41;14 - 00;58;45;27
Joshau Hoffert
All encompassing when you really start thinking it through. And so,

00;58;46;00 - 00;58;51;14
Joshua Hoffert
Anyway, everybody, please, give the, the podcast.

00;58;51;17 - 00;58;53;18
Joshau Hoffert
A,

00;58;53;21 - 00;59;00;13
Joshua Hoffert
A review on whatever podcasting platform you're on, give it a rating. You know, hopefully it's a high rating.

00;59;00;16 - 00;59;01;07
Joshau Hoffert


00;59;01;09 - 00;59;03;09
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, that's that's really helpful for us.

00;59;03;17 - 00;59;05;10
Joshau Hoffert
And, if.

00;59;05;10 - 00;59;07;07
Joshua Hoffert
If you're watching this, maybe later on.

00;59;07;07 - 00;59;23;06
Joshau Hoffert
YouTube, or one of the or something like that, then give us a like and subscribe to the video channel. It's always wonderful to be with everybody and we're so appreciate the feedback and the impact that, that you guys have been telling us that we're having upon you.

00;59;23;06 - 00;59;26;16
Joshua Hoffert
So thanks so much. And until next time, God bless.

00;59;26;18 - 00;59;27;10
Ken Hoffert
And see you next time.