EXPERIENCE 179 | Welcome to Party Land! Building Brands and Making Advertising More Fun (and Effective) with Matt Heath, Founder and Chief Creative at Party Land

I met Matt Heath at our LoCo Social at Cheba Hut in April, where he had just finished up meeting with Marc Torres, Cheba’s  CEO and my guest on Experience #139.  We had an awesome and interesting conversation, which led to a zoom and then booking this podcast, and I look forward to the day when LoCo Think Tank can hire his creative team to create a clever campaign - as their stuff is just so fun! 

Matt founded Party Land in the Los Angeles area in 2018, and moved the HQ office to Fort Collins for a change of scenery not long into the Covid lockdowns of 2020 and beyond.  He has had an incredible career journey, working with some of the fastest growing and most innovative marketing agencies in the industry, and leading campaigns for Arby’s (We Got the Meats), Buffalo Wild Wings, and Netflix - among others.  His first big client after launching Party Land was Liquid Death, and if you’ve noticed that Men’s Warehouse is moving back into cultural relevance - that has Matt’s fingerprints on it too.  

And - Matt’s earlier chapters of life were no less incredible.  His grandfather and family were effectively marijuana kingpins of Eastern Oregon, with multiple grow ops, sophisticated processing, and a significant dealer network.  Going to grade school with grown-up secrets was emotionally challenging, and Matt struggled for years before finding a creative outlet in music - initially jazz, and then punk.  He tried to sign up for the Air Force when he was 17 to escape his town and home life, but his parents wouldn’t sign the paperwork - and that launched him on a 10 year professional music journey!  A music festival allowed the band a window into the next level of success - and they didn’t want it!  And the advertising career began.

Warning:  This Episode is a world-class ADHD squirrel chase with a pair of goofs, and you can basically hear us becoming friends during this conversation.  So please join me in getting to know the Founder and Chief Creative at Party Land, Matt Heath, on The LoCo Experience. 

The LoCo Experience Podcast is sponsored by: Logistics Co-op | https://logisticscoop.com/

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Transcript

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I met Matt Heath at our Loco Social at Chiba Hut in April, where he had just finished up meeting with Mark Torres, Chiba's CEO, and my guest on Experience episode number 139. We had an awesome and an interesting conversation, which led to a Zoom and then to booking this podcast. And I look forward to the day when Loco Think Tank can hire his creative team to deliver a clever campaign as their stuff is just so fun. Matt founded Partyland in the Los Angeles area in 2018 and moved the headquarters office to Fort Collins for a change of scenery not long into the COVID lockdowns of 2020 and beyond. He has had an incredible career journey working with some of the fastest growing and most innovative marketing agencies in the industry and leading campaigns for Arby's, We Got the Meats, Buffalo Wild Wings, and Netflix, among others. His first big client after launching Partyland was Liquid Death, and if you've noticed that Men's Warehouse is moving back into cultural relevance, That has Matt's fingerprints on it, too. And, Matt's earlier chapters of life were no less incredible. His grandfather and family were effectively marijuana kingpins of Eastern Oregon, with multiple grow ops, sophisticated processing, and a significant dealer network, and many family members got busted by the DEA during his teenage years. Going to grade school with grown up secrets was emotionally challenging and Matt struggled for years before finding a creative outlet in music, initially jazz, and then punk. He tried to sign up for the Air Force when he was 17 to escape his town and home life, but his parents wouldn't sign the paperwork, and that launched him on a 10 year professional music journey. A music festival in Europe allowed the band to see a window into the next level of success, and they decided they didn't want it, and his advertising career began. Warning, this episode is a world class ADHD squirrel chase with a pair of goose, and you can basically hear us becoming friends during this conversation. So please join me in getting to know the founder and chief creative at Partyland, Matt Heath, on a local experience. welcome back to the Loco Experience podcast. My guest today is Matt Heath. I spaced it for a half moment. Let's start over. Welcome back to the Loco Experience Podcast. I'm honored today to be joined by Matt Heath. And Matt is the founder and chief creative over at Partyland. Hello. So, uh, yeah, thanks for being here, Matt. Of course. Thanks for having me. Um, You know, I always just like to start off with a, a ground setting. Uh, what is Partyland? It could be anything, really. It sounds like a, like a fun house or a fun center kind of thing. Mini golf. Yeah. I know it is not. Not yet. It could be. Future expansions. Yeah, there you go. I think I'm taking notes. Um, Partyland is a, uh, is an advertising agency. Uh, full service. Um, we are based in Los Angeles and then here in, uh, Fort Collins. Because you moved here. Yeah. I was one of those, uh, I hope that everyone will keep listening after I say that I moved here in 2020. A COVID escapee. Yeah. A little bit. It happened. I mean, I forget what was the, wasn't it something like from Portland and Seattle and parts of California, the U Hauls were like eight times as expensive to leave as they were to get there. Like if you would bring them a U Haul, they would pay you because they needed to sell it to somebody that really wanted to leave. All my stuff sat in, um. storage for three months. So I got here, had a house. Yeah, I got a house and honestly I had to buy things for my house. My house was, it was completely empty. It looked like it was staged to sell. Uh, and it took a very long time for everything to get here. Cause I just couldn't find anybody to, uh, to, you know, fill up the truck at the, at the transfer station. Cause they were just too busy. Heavy volume, whatever. The other was just so much. And there was also just a lack of people interested in, you know, in, uh, in, in, in doing that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they've sent everybody nice debit cards and stuff and bypass rent and all that. So I, I deterred you. Um, so part, so tell me the difference between advertising and marketing. Uh, you know, I, I really don't like if you, like, if you pull out, like there's really not like advertising is a lot of what I think is more of an industry, industry term these days. You know, so the advertising industry itself. So those of us that are on this side of it, right, uh, where, where the agencies, where the people, you know, helping the brands, um, we tend to think of ourselves more as advertisers or we'll talk about it like that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. And then the people that are kind of more in the, uh, you know, the brand side, you know, the CMOs, the marketing directors, all those kinds of things. I think just by way of, um, you know, tradition, it's referred to as marketing a little bit because those that's tends to be their title, right? Chief marketing officer. Right. Right. You know, um, And marketing, I think, is a little bit more all encompassing, uh, than advertising. Uh, so I think, uh, Advertising is kind of maybe more specifically the outreach, the thing that touches your eyes and it should reinforce the brand that the marketing department created. Yeah. You know, and, and, and I'll be, and I'll be honest, like I might be talking out my ass here. Like there, can I say yes on this? Oh fuck. Yeah. Nice. Uh, anything you want. Oh man. What if we had, let's, let's start the counter. Um, So, you know, that's my interpretation. I'm sure somebody who's probably a little bit more, uh, scholarly, uh, about, uh, marketing and, uh, you know, it's, uh, sub version of advertising would probably is probably over there, you know, writing a hotly written note to me on LinkedIn. If we had a lot of listeners or something, you idiot, you call yourself a marketer, nay, an advertiser. So, yeah. So. So what do you do? Like, for who? Well, um, okay. So as describe your team a little bit, yeah, yeah, sure, sure. I'll yeah. Okay. Um, so party land, um, uh, as I mentioned earlier, full service agency, uh, we pretty much do everything except for the actual production. So, you know, Getting the cameras out, getting the crew together, putting the lights up, building the set, doing the casting, like all that stuff happens. We, we tend to go out, contract out for that. Yeah. We have vendors that do that. Okay. Shout out to one of my favorites, uh, the goondocs. Okay. Uh, that's how I get paid. Right. Sub goondocs. And so like you would write a script for a commercial. Correct. Maybe. Yeah. And have kind of the design but somebody else would like hire the actors and secure the space and. In a way. Okay. So, so we. And that, and that, the other thing we don't do is media buying. Right. So, you know, you see a billboard and it usually says clear channel or, yeah. We don't buy that stuff now we can, uh, it's just, it's so complicated and it really is, uh, you know, from like a, a national, if not global level, all the way down to a hyper local level, you know, you kind of have to know what you're doing there and it depends on the client and it just is a little bit. It's better done by the people who are smarter than I am, so. But you can't really add value necessarily, right? Cause you gotta take a cut every time you sell a billboard or arrange it. Yeah, they usually get their 15%. I mean, from a financial perspective, it is wise to have a media, a media thing. Yes, we do that. But I, I've never been the type of person to, uh, you know, try to finagle more dollars out of our clients, you know, by way of over promising and claiming to be, you know, something that we're not. And we're just, we're not media buyers. Uh, it's a, that's a very difficult thing to do. And there's people out there who do it awesome. So we have, but we have, uh, uh, vendors that we work with, uh, closely to do that. Um, But the way we, what we do, uh, so a client. Has a problem that they need solved. It's usually like, Hey, I need people to know about this fucking thing that we make. Right. Um, Whether that be a hamburger or a pair of shoes or, uh, you know, a can of water, uh, they find us by way of, you know, You know any different kinds of things sometimes you've heard about us sometimes, you know referral from one of your past clients Yeah, yeah that there's that. Yeah a lot of times also You know, they find us because they like the work that we do and so they'll track it back And they'll just be like, hey, I really love this thing You guys did for the habit burger or you know for Dave's hot chicken or whatever and then they'll say like can you do the same? Thing for us. Yeah, same but different The answer is always yes, of course. Um, so then, uh, And either national brands oftentimes or regional brands sometimes. So we've, uh, right now we're currently, uh, working with men's warehouse. Okay. Um, a lot of fun. I mean, we can get to this later. Um, I love resurrecting brands. Uh, we call it, we call them latent icons. Yeah. It's my word. It's another person's just like, yeah, it's not washed up on its way back. Yeah. Right. Well, there's these, there's these brands that, um, that everyone knows of, but doesn't think about when it's time to go and, you know, do the thing when you said lens warehouse, I'm going to, I heard in my, head. You're going to love the way you look. That was a good advertisement. That is great. They also had the benefit of doing that ad campaign for like 20 years or something like that. So there's a reason it sticks in our head, but their brands that, uh, you, you know, everyone has a, everyone knows about, but they just, they just don't, uh, you know, aren't necessarily thinking about or not in love with the brand. Right. So, yeah, they fall in favor in some places. Yeah. But there is some, you know, some place in their brain where that brand exists. Um, Arby's was another one. Like Subway is ripe for opportunity there. You know, they would say not, but I, I would argue with them that I'm sure they're doing, they're doing a wonderful job. Uh, no, but Arby's was another one. I was the creative director, um, on the, we have the meats campaign. So we launched that campaign. I was there for the first two and a half years of that. That changed their brand. I suspect. Absolutely. Yeah. 100%. I mean, it seemed like it to me from an outsider looking in that all of a sudden Arby's was not an afterthought for lunch or whatever, or yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. They became something that was, um, I mean, it was, that was on purpose, right? Saying we have the meats. Uh, it was a way for, you know, the brand to not, uh, in the strategy, there was a really interesting slide where it was like, if you'd look at a cross section of a brain and then just give, you know, the real estate, you know, to, uh, you know, to, to all the different kinds of food that you can go out and get for lunch, right. You can get burgers, you can get pizza, yeah, right. Exactly. And a very small portion of that was roast beef because that's what they were known for. I called it the roast beef problem. Um, and so nobody sits there at lunch, lunchtime, and they're just like, you know, I'd really go for is a nice roast beef sandwich, but you wouldn't say, ah, I feel like burgers or, and you know what, I'm going to get a salad. I want some meat, but you will say meat. And so if we can stand for meat, which we could, or the brand could at least, um, uh, because they had, they had deli quality. that they had, they had upgraded their whole, you know, uh, selection of meats, the, the, the breadth of them and also the quality. Uh, so that was new news. And so being able to say, we have the meats, uh, uh, uh, tagline coined by, uh, uh, my, the C, uh, chief creative officer at the time, Jeff Kling. Um, it was, it was brilliant. I mean, it was a strategy meets, uh, Creative yeah, and the executions were flawless ultimately psychology, right? Yeah, exactly like that's what you're trying to get to that end Yeah reactor and then we just got really good at it. I mean the first few campaigns, you know, we're getting off the ground But I mean, I think I ended up making 200 spots that either ran or were test by you know in the first two and a half years there It was a lot. It was very prolific campaign. And so like a marketing agency You Especially today, oftentimes they'll measure themselves by like SEO, you know, how many website visits they can help you increase by and how many forms they can have people fill out of interest forms and whatever, right? How many new likes they can get on your Facebook page. How do you measure success in a, in a small firm advertising? Just like that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, it's, um, in the world of marketing, uh, we. I have gotten to a point, I guess it's always been like this to a certain extent. Um, but quantifying results, I call it ROI, right? Return on investment, uh, is, is incredibly important. And it's certainly one of my favorite things to track. And that might seem weird because most people are like, I don't want to know about this stuff. I just want to know that I made something funny. Uh, you don't get to make another funny thing if you don't, Make the first thing effective, right? So at least you're done by four or five. So we, uh, so, so, you know, those, those results are incredibly important to us. Uh, and as a, as a comedy agency, and I think I've left that part out where I'm in an agency that just does comedy. Oh, just does. Yeah. Well, I thought you were known for it, but both. Yeah. And we, I really don't have funny. You don't take it on. It's not interesting. If to me, if it's not funny, uh, We can get into my background. I'm sure at some point we will. Yeah. I mean, you're a very thorough question asker, so I'm assuming, sorry. Making a lot of, I'm a squirrel chaser. I'm a a world class squirrel chaser, is what I like to say. Conversation derailer. Oh, there we go. Yeah. Yeah. It's a tangential. Yes. Uh, me too. I should get a t shirt. The 10 gentle sounds a little bit dirty. Uh, but yeah, so, you know, those, those results are, are crucially important to, uh, to the, you know, not only the brand, um, but mostly important to the brand, but also whether or not we get, uh, another shot. I, we always say, um, you know, the, the first campaign isn't our goal. The second campaign is our goal, which holds us accountable for making great work. The first round where most agencies, um, not most, I won't say that, but many agencies out there, uh, will take their opportunity. They'll kind of, you know, try to get their awards work out there or just, you know, do something they think is right. Maybe it's a little off and, um, you know, then they, Maybe don't do another campaign with that, with that brand. And then they're off down the road to work with somebody else. But relationships are absolutely the most important thing in our agency, outside of the creative in that internal relationships, external relationships. So, uh, we've, we focus on that part first. So talk to me about the, the, the business itself. Cause you, you said you're technically the CEO too, uh, but you like the chief creative founder kind of guy. Tell me who's your team. Are they all. Employees, you have contractors, uh, partners, um, and then kind of what do they do? Like, how does it, what's a client journey look like? Ooh, that's a good one. Okay. Well, I'll start at the top here. Um, Partyland, we have three partners, uh, me, uh, Haley Hunter. Um, she is our chief operations officer. So she oversees everything finance. HR hiring, like, you know, just the nuts and bolts of the stuff, the stuff that I'm not smart enough to do. Kind of the back of the house. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, and she's absolutely wonderful. Uh, she makes people want to be on your team. A hundred percent. She's, she's the best part of us. She's so charming. Uh, she's so smart. Uh, and, and she loves the things that I do. I'm not great at like, uh, like PR, uh, you know, I, I tend to like, want to go hide in the corner and cover up and maybe cry a little bit. Um, maybe throw up. We don't know. Uh, but she's just, she's, she would have been as likely to join here if I hadn't met you kind of in the capacity. A hundred percent. Yeah. Out in the community more sometimes. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. So she's, You know, she's a part of all that kind of stuff. Uh, and people just like her more. I'm just patently disliked. I like weird people. So, you know, there you go. Extra points for you. Um, we're going to, we're going to be okay. It's going to be okay. I was talking to myself. I know I was talking to me and those of us inside my head. I was talking to the imaginary. You just, How's he doing? Is he all right? He's all right. He's hanging in there. All right. Cool. Uh, we'll check on him later. Um, whiskey. Yeah, there you go. Uh, so that's Haley. She does all the, all the smart prison stuff. Andy, uh, Silva is our managing director. Also one of the partners. Um, Haley and I founded the company and he brought, it came in about a year and a half, two years in, um, uh, in 2021. So I guess it would be almost three years, but he came in right there when COVID was, you know, still hitting pretty hard. Um, and, um, he's the managing director, as I, as I said, I hope I said that I'll repeat it. Um, and he does everything account side. So he oversees, um, you know, client relationships. He oversees his team of account people and account people, a lot of project management as well. Kind of. Yeah. Like, um, you know, you're. Yeah, blue team, red team, whatever. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, yeah. He's definitely the, the tactician of the, of the agency in that way. Um, and since we're on topic of Andy, uh, and by the way, he's, he's wonderful. He's a Kiwi. He's, uh, I always give him a hard time. They talk funny. It's fun to listen to him. I know. I have a really bad joke. Can you impression him for me? Uh, nor, oh, nor. Uh, nor. I like to say that Andy has a speech impediment and then he starts talking and they're like wait a minute, he's just from, uh, somewhere else. A terrible, terrible joke. Can I tell a terrible story about that? Please do. I met a pair of twins, um, that talked kind of funny, a little bit like Kiwis or something like that. Um, and, um, And they shared with me instead that, uh, you know, thanks for asking, but we actually had twin language, like they had developed a special language that only the two of them. And so that when they went to school, they could barely communicate and they had spent years in like therapy and speech rehab and stuff. I'm like, Oh, I love that. That is, it was fascinating. Like they're super bright gals, both in real estate in town here. And, um, and I was like, well, that's really cool. And, you know, Don't always have to ask questions, Kurt. But it was cool. They were very open minded about it or whatever, but I love that. Anyway, I digress. Yeah, that stuff like that, that is so, like, uh I mean, in a way it's like we all have a version of that, right? Whether, whether we're two twins or we're people inside of a, you know, specific, you know, uh, category of, of, of career, it's like, we've all got our weird little lingo and, and in, in the end it all feels like we're just talking to ourselves. Um, well, and for them it was like developed almost in secret, you know, when they were talking to mom and dad, they could, but most of their talking was Between the two of them. I would love to hear what that was. Right? Especially because, yeah, right. Just as a, just two of them. Right. As their own little invention. Well, and thinking about that, like, how obvious that humanity would develop so many different languages if it can just kind of spontaneously erupt in a pair of twins. Yeah. In Kansas. Or whatever. Right. Or it's like Jared, Tolkien, right? Yeah, you know, like creating Elvish. Right. Similar situation. Yeah, right. Just pull that thing right out of, I mean, is that imagination in Tolkien's case? Or was that like ideas like somehow almost supernaturally implanted in his head? Well, when I have to think about those things when I talk to him He tells me they have a relationship with him pull it down from the collective unconscious where he exists now No, I you know, I think as a musician and you know, I've always been Dease at At languages in fact, this is a weird story when I was in high school I grew up in the middle of nowhere, uh, out in this little area called Pleasant Hill in Oregon, a little farming community. And I just, like, nobody left. Like, you just don't, you just don't leave. I'm from North Dakota and it was kind of the same. Yeah, right. So if you left, they were just like, what's wrong with you? Well, and if you didn't come back because you're like, oh, it's a big world out there. And it was just like, he just loves that city. He's a city. Uh, look at him. Uh, so then I, uh, but, but I was, I was just like, I don't know how I'm going to get. Out of this, you know, this life. Uh, and so I was like, I had a, the, the great idea of, uh, at 17 years old just being like, you know what I'll do? I'll just join the Air Force. Oh, that'll get me outta here. Heck yeah. Uh, so I did, I went and I, um, I took the, uh, I think it was called the asvab, and I scored so high and sound like I'm just being super self-congratulatory, and don't spread your arm. Yeah, exactly. Uh, no, but I did, I I scored really high in the link, uh, in the language part of the test. Mm-Hmm. uh, and. Linguistics. I think they called it. Uh, and, uh, they offered me a job in the CIA. Oh, wow. Uh, as a over in Iraq or something, it was to learn, um, Arabic. Right. And they were like, that's going to be your job. You're going to work with the secret service and learn this. And I was like, Oh man, that sounds awesome. So when I told my mom and dad, I'm like, guess what? I'm kick ass. Uh, and I'm out. And they're like, No, you're not. You're 17 and we're not signing, you're staying here. Uh, of course it wasn't that insidious, but they did not sign. Right. And I, and I didn't turn, uh, 18 for several months. And so I, uh, just waited for my opportunity. And during that time, uh, I ended up starting a band, you know, cause I've been a musician forever and, and I was just like, Oh, isn't that funny? Maybe this band thing is a little bit more fun than going to a basic training. Right, right. Also, but for a twist of fate, like you'd have been, you know, at least for four years, I imagine, or eight years or something signed up. Yeah. I mean, I probably, I mean, who knows? Might have been career. Certainly would have never done a cool ad in your whole life. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Um, maybe I'd just be a, you know, Nevermind. We can, we can follow that down. Thank you for your service. You got to leave at five, just a little after. That's true. Uh, so you were describing your three partners. Is there any other kind of key players? Uh, absolutely. Um, right now there's 11 of us. Um, We like to keep it small I think are they here in California? Yeah. Yeah, they're actually they're all of the United States. Okay, there's probably about half of them are in Southern California, so Andy Our creative director is there? Our head of account management is there our account manager? One of the account supervisors is there. So all the, you know the people who are doing that. Yeah, yeah. You know. Well, and a lot of the clients are out there a hundred. Yep. Absolutely. Right. And then our director of new business, she's out, she lives out in the desert. Uh, in, uh, Palm. Palm say, what is it called? Palm Desert. Joshua Desert, yeah. Palm Desert JE Joshua Tree. Yeah. Yeah. And then we've got people in San Francisco and, uh, one of the guys just moved from Chicago down to Austin. We've got people in Connecticut and all, you know, it's just every San Diego. Are you the only ones? Uh, in Fort Collins, Helio and I are the only ones here. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. If you added people, would you try to add them here, or more not? Because it's not really the industry, like you don't have that many national brands around here with client reps and stuff. Yeah, no, true, um, but I don't know, I kind of feel like, uh, I mean, we absolutely love it here. Um, you know, Haley lives, you're not leaving, no, no, Haley lives about 15 minutes away from me. I actually technically live in Loveland and there's a little area called seven lakes. Oh yeah. So it's like the north end of one of my former clients built that subdivision. I have some things to tell them. Um, there are some questions for them. So about this HOA, uh, no, I'm just kidding. Um, But yeah, so she, and she lives in South Fort Collins. We, you know, we all kind of, you know, revolve in this area. And you don't have a real office office where you can have staff meetings and stuff to speak of. We don't right now. We did, we had one in Venice. We had a, uh, well, we got started, uh, when we first launched the agency, it was a 1974 GMC motor home, an orange. It's beautiful. Do you notice my ambulance out here by the way? I did, of course. Have you been in it? Oh yeah, that's right. Um, uh, yeah. I'm super impressed. I was like, this guy's like me. He thinks like me. Um, he likes cool shit. Uh, and, uh, so that was our first agency or, you know, our first office for the first year. Okay. And this is coming from like before the, before party land, I was the executive creative director at an agency called Chiat Day in Los Angeles. Right. And like corner office overlooking downtown, uh, well, sort of, but yeah, I mean, it was definitely like a massive Costco size building and you know, what's cool, it was a really well done one. Uh, many years ago, they, they, the idea was kind of like building a city within a building. And so, you know, my office was in like these weird yellow stacks, it was like stacks of offices that you could access through, you know, a series of, uh, You know, catwalks and, and, and, and stairs and ladders. Oh, interesting. Like, and then like internal windows more. Yeah, exactly. And so we were all kind of facing in towards this little, you know, way. And I was on the ground floor there. Um, and you know, it just felt like a, like a zoo animal. People would walk by and they're like, and here's this, this person's name is Matt. And I was just like, just like, well, okay, uh, come on in. Uh, just like you want to come in and have a drink. Um, so, uh, but, but going from that, which was. Uh, you know, a storied agency. I mean, they'd done everything from, you know, Apple's 1984 ad campaign, you know, to Yokiero Taco Bell to the, you know, the great ABC work, you know, all the great quotes about, you know, comedy, you know, all that kind of stuff. I mean, they're just, they've just done. One of your probably favorite five ads, you know, is that agency coming over to party land and just being like, all right, let's do this. Uh, and we were just like, what do we want to do? And it was like, what was that? Like, what did you like get in a fight with the owner? Were you just excited to do your own thing? Finally, had that been a dream for a while? Like, what was it? What was the spark that created party land? Yeah, it was that. It was, it was, um, it was, it was less, sorry, I have to be specific cause you said several options. It could be any one of those. Yes, me and, me and Chiat and Day in a tag team. It came to blows and I couldn't work there anymore. No, those geniuses are long gone. Um, but they, uh, but no, it was, it was less a reaction to the situations that I'd been in. Um, you know, the agencies that I've worked at and it was more of a, This just felt right. Yeah, it felt right to, you know, I, I, like I said, I've mentioned a couple of times and, you know, been in a band, you know, for, I was, you know, we got signed to a record label when I was 20 and in a way you are kind of your own boss and right now there's like, you have manager, but like they don't, you know, depending on the manager, you can kind of, you know, uh, but, but you're the revenue manager and you're kind of the decider and you're also the creative, right? So, um, what you say goes and there's, it's a rare occasion when someone's just like, uh, why don't we just, uh, take another look at that bridge? That's not really working for me. Why don't we try that in the major key? Cause it's the minor key. And I know that you like that. It's, you know, a little dissonant, but like, let's not do that. Your audience doesn't like dissonance. Right. You know, uh, but you're, you know, you make all the calls. Like you write all the work, you know, write all the songs, you know, you and your bandmates, you know, you, uh, And you do that for like 10 years or something. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I mean, well, I grew up playing music, so I was, I started playing jazz. Um, and then in high school, uh, you know, we did the whole, you know, the whole jazz thing, and, and we were, I came from a very small high school, but we were, One of those programs where we would go and we would just destroy people interesting It was it was a school of like a jazz band. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's like festival Yeah, and we'd go and they'd you know, you'd win or not, you know, and you know for a second third It was just a you know, I had a like a gymnastics competition right me like that but for jazz and no matter what man everywhere we went we just fucking crushed and It was it was my first You taste of, it feels fun to win. I, so two things come to mind and I'll, I'll get back to you, but, um, and we'll come to tasting notes too. So three things will come to mind. One, um, as a seventh grader, as a sixth grader, I was moved up to playing the B squad in high school basketball because our school, like some kids got minors and they didn't have enough kids to feel a team. And then in seventh grade, I was, uh, like literally the backup point guard and. On the varsity team. Oh wow. So I lettered in Bass High School because our school was, we had 50 kids, 7 through 12. Oh wow. So we could barely field a team and, and I, I think my high school basketball career, I went 4 and 87 or something. Yeah, right. Um, but we had a bunch of smart kids and I was also part of the academic Olympics team. Nice. So kind of a big glorified trivia contest of school relevant kind of things. Yeah. Yeah. And we. for a 50 person school, like we were taking home first, second, third places, but we took more first than anything else. Yeah. And, you know, I was kind of one of the less smart kids on those teams generally, but I got to tag along. Yeah, obviously. Um, but yeah, it was, it was such an interesting thing. And even just that experience of being like, Oh, I'm pretty smart. You know, even though I grew up in this bohunk town and I was kind of sure I was going to flunk out of college because smart kids went to college, you know, and I'm from this bohunk town, you might have similar kind of perceptions. And then you're, you know, after a couple of years of fucking off, you're like, Oh shit, I'm just as smart as everybody else here. Right. You're like, I, I, I, I at least got some points in the genetic, you know, in the genetic pool. Totally. Yeah, lucked out. In the draft. Um, so, client journey. Hmm. I'm going to bring you all the way back there. We'll, we'll catch back up on the kind of journey of growth a little bit. Yeah, sure. And the move to Fort Collins. But, So, somebody contacts you, they get referred, whatever manner. Yeah. And they're just like, hey, we've got a problem. Uh, we're not connecting with this demographic. Yep. Or something like that, and we want something to be funny. Yep. Uh, comedy based, that brings us back into relevance. Yeah, yeah, or, or, or, you know, just, or they're a small brand, like, um, For example, liquid death is one of our clients, one of our founding clients. Awesome. Uh, I mean, Mike, the CEO, uh, Mike, uh, Cesario, he, he and I go way back and he, he's also, uh, friends with Haley. Like, I mean, there's, uh, you know, like hit Mike's brother. Is married to Haley's best friend. So there was a lot of, uh, you know, like, you know, friendliness and all that kind of stuff and, you know, history there. Um, but, uh, you know, they came to us and they were just like, Hey, we're launching this thing, you know, we need some help here to get it off the ground. Cause you know, we're a DTC brand at this point, you know, and we're about 5, 000 followers deep on Instagram. So it was very foundational, you know, days. Uh, and we were their first, uh, agency of record and did a lot of their original, you know, um, you know, productions and ideas and where the social, a lot of their social stuff. Oh, you did. That's what part of it. So, so you do do that kind of stuff too. You take your creative output and, but you're not like commenting back and stuff like that. Yeah, we'll do that. You will. Okay. So you're still, you're pretty involved. So there is not as much separation between you and a marketing agency as, you know, No, no, no, no. We're one month thing. No, we, we, uh, do you build websites and stuff? We don't do that. That's, that's, that's pretty specialized. So you wouldn't do like SEO optimization, things like that, but no, I don't even know what that means. no, just kidding. No, I, I swear to God, I do know. No. Um, we we're more, okay, so, so basically I think this will be, this will be helpful. So, uh, a client comes to us and they're like. Yeah, let's not use liquid death.'cause that's like part of your phony story. That was, yeah. That, yeah, that and that's, well, I met you at Chief of Hut Unique yesterday. You talking to Chief of Hut, are you working with them? Uh, yeah, we're gonna be working with them. Okay. Yeah, we'll get to that too, mark. And like, those guys are fucking great, man, so They're awesome. Yeah. I love the seed a hundred percent. Yeah. Uh, and they're so, I, they got such a great brand. I cannot wait to get my hands on it, man. Like, we're gonna do such great work together. It's, it's gonna be great. Um. But, um, yeah. So a client will come to us and they're like, Hey, we need some help. Whether that's like, you know, uh, awareness help. Uh, and we need, uh, to talk about this, you know, specific new product that we're making or sometimes it's just like, Hey, we, we just want to start, we just want to hit the reset button. Right. Yeah, exactly. Um, In the case of Arby's, for instance, they were just like, you know, ironically, one of the recent ad campaigns was I'm thinking Arby's, but you know, no one was thinking Arby's. And so they're like, how can we, how can we get back into, you know, in people's brains? So we, um, so they come to us and, you know, it'll start off with some sort of strategic, you know, understanding whether it's a repositioning or just understanding the audience or whatever it might be. Right. Uh, but basically we need to figure out what the math is before we can figure out what the creative is. Okay. If I don't understand the problem intrinsically, uh, at every, you know, like, like every single detail of the problem. Kind of like what the current situation is. Yeah. What do people want? You know, what's, what's up with the brand? Where have they been? Why is it things, why are things not working? How do we help them work a little bit better? You know, like those kinds of things. Um, so. You know, segmenting the audience, like it can be, I mean, you can get to like a 500 page deck pretty quickly with that. So, I mean, that's, you know, quite a deep one. Um, but you can also do it, you know, pretty simply. It could be a, you know, a 10 page deck of, you know, sir. Sure. Oh, and before we, this time, uh, so we should give our tasting notes from the, The Makers Mark, uh, William Oliver's special number five bottle. Yeah. What do you think? Uh, I thought it was great. Uh, you were right after, uh, it sat in the glass for a little bit, uh, it mellowed out. Yeah. The first sip was a little hot. Yeah. It was a little hot and then you're like, and then after that it was, uh, quite, uh, sweet, but not cloying. Yeah. Uh, it's delicious and I, I, I'm, uh, happy to say that I drink it more quickly than I should have. Yeah. We got, we're right on time. But I'm so nervous. I can tell. I can tell. So this is the, um, Axe and Oak, Axe and the Oak Distillery, uh, Colorado Mountain Bourbon Whiskey. Where are they from? Six years age, Colorado Springs. Springs. Nice. Yeah. So I hadn't, I've never had it before. I, I mean, I've had it. A little bit of obviously, but I'm smelling it. I think it's, it's got kind of cherry notes on it. Yeah. Yeah. Do you agree? I don't know. I haven't smelled it yet. I sipped it. I'm supposed to just smell it. No, it's okay. Yeah. It really does. Yeah. Interestingly, I've got, uh, my kombucha batch that I just harvested the other day. I, I put about a two shots of cherry juice in it and, uh, and it does have kind of that little bit of. It's also a little pittiness in there. Yeah. Yeah. It's very earthy. This is not as hot as I feared. No, this is nice. Really, this is pretty nice too. Yeah, pretty chill. I mean, it's, I don't trust like young whiskey companies, you know, like Stranahan's, you know, that's going to be pretty good, but really Stranahan's is like about as good as a 30 bottle of whiskey from somebody else because it's just not that good yet. Right. Yeah. They're getting there. They're learning. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, you know what? We, um, so I, uh, I did this ad campaign back in the day for a K Swiss that used Kenny Powers. From, uh, eastbound and down. Okay. To Danny mc, Danny McBride's character. Yep. Yep. Uh, and the president from Case was, they ended up after the, after that campaign, they ended up selling high, selling, high uh, and he, he left and he's now got, got his fingers in all kinds of different stuff. Um, and he's wonderful man. Um, David Nichols is his name, uh, and he, uh, is a investor and you know, has something to do with, uh, a brand called Kings County Distillery in New York. Okay. He took like early days party land. Cause we were, we were considering doing a little bit of work with them. So he was working with the founders at that point. And he was just like, why don't you come out to New York and, you know, give you the taste. Oh my God. Have you ever been on like a real deep, thorough taste testing through a distillery? I mean, rum distillery in Barbados, uh, is one. Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry, I'm just saying this. It's okay. Um, uh, but he took us on this taste testing thing, and, I mean, let's be completely clear, there was, I was, I don't remember the end of it. I learned quite a bit, and I forgot most of it. But, oh my god, it was so fucking good. Like, the, the, the, I mean, it was just, it was phenomenal. It was one of my favorite things. Yeah, I have a lot of favorite experiences with alcohol, and I've had plenty. Um, but that was, that was really cool. So shout out to Dave Nichols and everything. My wife at the end of the rum tour at Gray's, no, Mt. Gay, Mt. Gay Rummery in Barbados, uh, Jo was like, turns out I love rum! Everybody knows when they've had enough of it. Straight up officially. I'm a pirate now. Right. So, I don't think, So client comes to you, they've got this problem. You do some, some digging in. Yeah, we do some digging in. We get to know them. We get to know the problem, get to know the audience. I mean, there's, you know, it's pretty straightforward, you know, from that perspective, you charge for this. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So before we start working with you for us to dig in, it's going to be 50 grand. Oh, I just take all the money I can get. No, you got to cover your time a little bit. Yeah, for sure. For sure. I mean, and it's usually, you know, wrapped into part of the, you know, the overall, uh, you know, uh, bid or whatever, but usually they say yes. Kind of anyway, you need a little bit. Some, some clients are, you know, they come well prepared, you know, some of them are just like, Hey, we've been doing this strategy at this, this positioning work for the last, like, you know, year, or we went to some, you know, crazy, you know, positioning company. We tried this, it didn't work as good as we thought, or they're just have this information. They're like, now what do we do with it? Right. Oh, okay. So, so they, they, they're like, oh, so they're kind of bringing a pocket full of data sometimes in, yeah. So let's assume they are right. They're, they, or you know, they at least have something. So they're like, okay, this is what we're doing. This is what we think people are, you know, needing. This is our audience, you know, under our understanding about what the audience is looking for. Um. This is how we want to communicate with the audience. So we basically take all the information, like, where have you been? What do you want to do? Who are you talking to? What are they, who are they talking to? Like who, the people that you're talking to, who are they talking to? Uh, what's the truth about the thing and, you know, that the product or the service, um, you know, I mean, it's a, it's a pretty, you trying to paint a holistic picture of the reality of the situation. Um, We, because, you know, from a, from what we do as a, as a comedy agency, uh, you know, we have to figure out how to take that information and make it interesting, not just interesting, but also like, you know, funny, right? Right. Uh, and we, our process is, is, is like Chibahut's kind of easy to think about them, right? Like, cause it's already Chibahut. And it's been Chiba Hut for 25 years before weed was even legal, right? There's all kinds of weed jokes in the world. Yeah, exactly. But, you know, in order to do it correctly, there, there is a nuance to it, right? It's like, and some, plenty of brands go out there and they're just like, you know, Super Bowl is a great example. It's just like, all right, let's go kick some guy in the balls. And it's just like, that's comedy. That's comedy. That's so funny. And you know what? It's like, I can't deny that it is. You know? Like, it is, but it still doesn't make me want to align with your brand. Yeah, I mean, my kids think that getting kicked in the balls is the funniest thing in the world. I should know. Wait until they experience it sometime. Yeah. Then they won't think so. You should just teach them a quick lesson. I'll leave that to their friends. There'll be plenty of that stuff happening. Probably appropriate. You know, I don't have to be like, No, don't. No risk of taking your kids away. CSD is calling you to be like, uh, excuse me, sir. We were listening to your very good podcast. However, you are going to the jail. I'm going to the jail. Yeah. And the prison. Um, but anyway, so they'll, you know, they'll, they'll, they'll come to us and they'll just say like, okay, this is, you know, what we have or what we don't have, we'll fill in the blanks. And then, um, and then we'll agree on a brief. Right. So it's like, okay, here's the outline of what we think, you know, all the math is. Right. Uh, and here's how we're going to brief our team. Uh, the creative team or, you know, everybody, the strategist and everybody, uh, and it will, you know, have all that information, but also it'll turn the corner into, um, you know, knowing exactly, you know, all the details about the product or the service or whatever it is that they're trying to sell or the brand. Uh, and then we'll hand it off to our brilliant, uh, creatives and they basically take that, you know, I think a lot of it, I think about it a lot of time as the, um, the chassis of the car, you know, like the drive train, all that stuff, like that's the strategy, but the thing that's on top. makes you want to buy it. It's just like, wow, that's fucking sexy. You know, of course, of course, like you, you know, but you just assume that it's going to go fast if it looks like this, or it's going to be powerful because it looks like this, or it's going to be rugged because it looks like this. Right. Yeah. Uh, but that, you know, the creative, the creative product in a lot of ways, Strategy is a creative product 100%, but the creative product thing that we see on TV gets the job done is the outside of the car. Yeah, yeah. And the thing that gets the job done is the strategy that's underlying that creative product engine, what kind of suspension, whatever. Exactly. Right. And it's, it's that complicated. It really is interesting. Um, but the whole point about that is, you know, making it simple. So it's where it's like, you know, us as engineers, like we know every little piece about the, you know, about that vehicle. You know, like you say, the springs, the shocks, like, you know, the drivetrain, like, like, you know, what kind of engine you're thinking about all these different outlets, where are you going to distribute to so that the consumer can just get it, get in it, turn it on. They're like, this sounds good. And then step on the gas and you're like, that feels good. And then they can get out of the car and be like, I want to buy this thing. Right. Um, so. And then is it like a, is it like a project base or are a lot of your clients retainer? Like, cause you're continually, yeah. Talk to me about like the revenue model. Yeah, both. Um, it used to be more, uh, retained, uh, in, in this industry. It was like, you know, brands would, you know, put a retainer down and they, you know, just tell me what I need to, yeah, exactly. For like a year or whatever. Um, that's less common these days. It's more project based. Okay. Um, although AORs do exist. So we have an, uh, AOR with, um, agency of record. Okay. Yep. Um, so we're the agency of record for, um, uh, men's warehouse. Not so much with Jansport, although this is our second. Uh, year with Jansport, but it is kind of, you know, they want to do a, you know, project cementing in kind of there. The goal isn't always to get to an AOR relationship, right? An AOR relationship is a retained relationship, as you say, uh, is, is good for some brands, but sometimes like, you know, you want to be able to have a little bit more flexibility. Yeah. Um, and a project base, you know, means that you're like, okay, well, The, the, the details that we're setting up for this relationship, uh, in this situation may not reflect what's going to happen in the future. So let's just like, you know, let's, let's wait. It's not, it's no less advantageous to us as an agency, other than if it is a huge account, this is the exception. If it's a huge account, like a car account, let's say, uh, you want to make sure if you're hiring a bunch of people to service this brand, I mean, we're talking like. You know, top 100 size brands, like, you know, uh, I was just thinking cyber truck would be a good, you could make a lot of funny stuff around that. Well, I don't think they would like, cause we'd probably make too much fun of it. They'd be like, no, no, no. You need to take us more seriously. It'd be like, but you look like a toy, uh, probably pretty cool, but you know, I've never driven one, but you know, um, but they'll, you know, so, so most of, most of our clients are, are, uh, project based. Um, but like I said, it's, it's, it's. It's just kind of the way the world works these days. And I prefer that because things just change so quickly. I never want to have to like hire a bunch of people. And then, you know, uh, have to, you know, if the project doesn't get renewed or whatever it is, it's just like one year and they go somewhere else, like, and you have to fire those people or let them go. You know, and, and that, that is the worst part of my job is I hate, I hate that. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's awful. So, so I prefer to do something where I can say like, all right, I know for this six months, I'm going to be working on this one thing and that's it. And I can hire a person and knowing that it's like shorter term. It's like, you know, can we, you know, bring that on? Can we handle that in house with the people that we have or, you know, or do we need to bring in somebody freelance? I prefer to bring in somebody for freelance, which is a vendor, especially if it's a six month thing or something. A hundred percent. Yeah. Gotcha. Gotcha. Or I'll just do it myself. So your team is 11. Like your employee base. So you can do a lot of things with that. And then you've got contractors outside of that phase too. Yeah. We, we tend not to bring in too many creative, uh, inter, uh, sorry, uh, uh, freelancers, not that we, not, not that we, uh, can't, it's just, it gets kind of expensive, uh, well, and at risk of it, not quite aligning with your brand and whatever, and you don't want to say anything. It's like hard to get the right polish on it. Yeah. A little bit. And I mean, we just have such a, Strong point of view with the creative that we have, that it's easier to work with like me and like the creative team. There's, uh, um, six of us. So counting me, there's six people, six of us on the, at the agency are specifically in the creative group. Yeah. I feel like we can get there pretty quick. And then, and then we're just like such a well oiled machine that it's like, we'll sit there and we'll laugh about it for a while. You know, like, what's what could we do? Like, cause you know, it really is a lot of like a round table almost. Tell me about, uh, um, What's funny about your men's warehouse and transport stuff. Like I, I confess that I haven't necessarily re engaged with either brand. Um, no, that's okay. Uh, it's all, I'll get you the, the, your, your seat's on its way. Okay. I'll get your measurements. Yeah. Um, but, um, uh, they're different, obviously they're different brands and like all creative has to come from the soul of that specific brand. And that's a, that's a crucial part of our, of our, of our, um, approach. Okay. Yeah. Do you want to smoke a joint, by the way? Oh, no, man, I'm good. All right, just check in. Then I would, I was just, I was looking at the thing. The dinosaur. I didn't even see the joint in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just like, I love the dinosaur. What's he holding? That's nice. Yeah, now you know. Very good. Um, but, uh, you know, they'll, um, Uh, you know, like it's okay. It threw me out. It's just like, what do I want to smoke? I don't know. Do you know, Mark was the last person to smoke a joint with me on air. Yeah. Oh, nice. I'm just saying. I think I would, I would stay. I would be here for a long time. We couldn't wrap up by 510. No, we could not. Maybe tomorrow. I'd be like, this is a cushy couch. Can I sleep here? Wow. Kurt did an 11 hour podcast. Some of it was with him snoring. Wow. They started singing, but they drank three bottles of bourbon. And then that was a permanent part of all the shows after that. Um, uh, no, uh, but the, the, the idea has to come from the soul of the brand, you know, uh, you know, like our, part of our process is finding that singularity about each of the brands, like, what is the one thing, you know, that makes them, them, it's a really hard process to get to. Cause, cause some, some brands are just like, I can't do that. That's an oversimplification. We're so complex. We do this, that, and the other thing and all this stuff. But the reality is when people think about a brand, they really only, like consumers, just everyday people, right? They really only think about like one thing, right? It's like, you know, you think about Chevy. What's the one word that comes up? America. Yeah, there you go. Cheap. A hood is right. Really fucking good subs or, or weed. Well, for me, it's like the best subs. Oh, they are the best subs. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, weed is the other thing, I suppose. Yeah. Right. Um, you think of Ben's warehouse, it's affordable, good looking suits. There you go. Right. And so it's like, just like that, it is a very singular, very focused thing that we think about where brands. Uh, you know, when, when they're, when they're talking to themselves or as you know, colloquially, colloquially put smelling their own farts, it's like, no, we do 15 different things. Right. You know, and, and it's a very complicated process. So our job is to come in and distill it down to what is the most important thing that feels like them, that is not, but at the same time doesn't feel like dismissive. That's really interesting. Or reductive to the point of damage. Right. Well, so I'm thinking about my own brand now'cause I got one, right? Sure. Like local think tank is, yeah. And. You know, really, if, if I, if I had my druthers, if people actually thought about something, when they heard the name local think tank, like beyond Fort Collins in Northern Colorado, it would be like kind of community based community supportive peer advisory groups for, for business people, you know, a way for business to support each other and support communities at each community is kind of that way or whatever, you know, I don't know, that's a lot of words. Yeah. But if, if it could just be that simple, then we'd have something then. Because I came into an industry that's got a lot of big giant companies and private equity owned things. Vistage has been acquired like three or four times now and whatever. And you know, we're community based. That's, that's our big difference. Right. Well, you got to think about it like this, right? Uh, there's a separation between who you are and what you do. Right. Just like human beings. Right. Right. You're hurt. So better would be, I get smarter here. Yeah, right. There you go. Right. Like if a business owner was like business, people get smarter there. Yeah, right. I think that's absolutely true. It's like, you know, this is a, like you're like, uh, at its soul and this will feel reductive because it's hard. It's a hard, this is a hard exercise. Yeah. We can't just do it right here. Uh, yeah, but we can absolutely. No, no, we have, no, it's, it's usually hard for the brand. Right. Because they're just like, Oh my God, like, what about this? What about this? What about that? You know, those things are really important. And I understand that, but like, that's not how people think that there's a place for that stuff in the ecosystem of communication, They call it within your team things. Maybe that doesn't belong in the TV spot. Maybe that works really well down in social or whatever, but I think for your brand, right? You're it's, It's education. Like at its soul, you're a teacher. And yes, in a way, because you're pulling out because the best teachers pull information out of their students. They help like, uh, they help us realize the truth because it's always in all of us, you know? So a great teacher doesn't tell you what to do. They get you to the point where you say the truth on your own and it comes from, it comes from you, right? I mean, now there's totally, you can teach people as an educator. Well, and I feel underqualified for that. And, but by. My big skill is bringing people like Mark Torres into the organization and saying, this is a person that we'll both gain and benefit everybody else in the room. Mm-Hmm. you know, and, and they teach each other. Right. And so I don't really feel qualified as a teacher. It's a teaching place that I've curated but that's the thing. I mean, but I can't say that it's too long, but, but it's not. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like, this is where people come to get an education on business. It's, it's a, it is. It is a, it is a, is it a, it's a tank. You know, a location, uh, a group, a community, whatever you want to call it, people who are sharing and you're facilitating that, like, that is absolutely an education at like an edge. You are an educator in that way, right? You're facilitating education for those around you. Yeah. I'm too dumb. That might not be right. I mean, it's yeah. I mean, we just did a couple of minutes, but yeah, no, I think I understand that process now. That's really actually your challenge to me on like, just boil it down, like nice suits affordably. Yeah. Like Ben's warehouse has that brand or whatever. For men's warehouse, you putting them through the same, you know, the same filter or putting, you know, the same process. Yeah. Right. Uh, they are, um, they solve problems. They're problem solver. Hmm. Right. Because men, one of men's biggest problems is what the fuck do I wear to this fucking thing? Totally. None of us. And my wife's not even here at the store with me trying to buy this suit for this fucking thing. Absolutely. What the fuck do I wear to this fucking thing? For sure. It's one of the hardest things. Actually, that is the best part about their service too. It's like Ace Hardware. Yeah. Like why do I go to Ace Hardware instead of Home Depot? Well,'cause somebody will help me with my fucking thing. They'll sit there and they'll figure out like, why? Like, okay, so the, the, the male end of the, the sprinkler that I, you know, have to, you know, find a, a connector for, you know, the actual sprinkler head for, is, I, I don't know, is it an eighth inch or is it a quarter inch? Right. Male to a female. And they're just like, here, I got you Right. Totally. Men's warehouse is just like that. It's like they come in, men come in and they're just like, they don't want to be there because they're, they're embarrassed because they don't have the answers. Men love to have the answers. Uh, you know, we're, we're the ones who are making it safe for them to come in and ask the questions. And so that's where you can use humor is kind of deflecting of the fear and the anxiety. And absolutely. It's just like, look, it. We're all big dumb idiots. Right. And nobody taught us how to dress. It's so easy to make fun of men and clothing choices. I mean, look at myself here. Right. I actually, like, hold on a second. There's actually some matching going on here in some of these color patterns. I wore my kind of partyland appropriate outfit today. Yeah, I love the floral pattern. I bought the orange pants before really any shirts I could wear them with. But then my wife helped me. There you go. Sam, a salmon, salmon color. Salmon and orange. Or yeah, you're doing great, man. I walked in. I was like, fuck yeah, man. It's not for everybody. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Uh, but, but that is the problem. You walk in and like, you know, you've been, you know, let's say you walk into a J crew where they don't have. You know, a clothier and a tailor on site, you know, that stuff. You walk into J crew and there might be like a high school student who's, you know, and they're just like, you're just like, I need to go to a job interview. And they're like, Oh, okay. Well, uh, the Polo's over there. Yeah. Or just like a lot of people like this shirt, you know, and, but with Edmunds warehouse, they'll take you through the whole process. Like, I mean, it is so interesting. I mean, so when you walk out of that place and you, well, before you walk out of that place, you, you stand in the, in the mirror and you're getting the, you know, the, they're taking your measurements and they put it on you and they kind of clip it and to make it look, you know, look like it's going to look. Yeah, exactly. And you look in the mirror and it happens. Like I've had that experience. You look in the mirror and you're like, Oh my God. Damn, that dude's actually not that ugly. I'm like, I could, I could, I'm hot? Am I hot? I like it, I like it. No, no, you're not. Oh, well, thank you. But, but the hypothetical person was. Your imaginary friend is actually pretty good looking. Exactly. I'm not, but most men are. Uh, but in that, in that moment, but you think you are, you feel. Yeah, yeah, no, well, because you look so much different than you normally look, kind of, too. Yeah, and you just look like a spy or, you know, or, or a, or a, like a magazine guy. Yeah. And, uh, and that feels good. So there's, you know, the confidence there. So it's like, we help you figure out how to find your confidence. We will take you all the way through that process. So you don't have to, like, you don't have to worry about it. You just like take your hands off. It was like, you know, it's men's warehouse. Take a meal. Like, just help me. And nobody else does that. No other brand does that. That helps to expand margin too, right? Like, cause they can become a value brand instead of a. Right, exactly. Because they give you all this extra value that you're not getting at a lot of your other places. Mm hmm. Um, and I don't mean, I'm not solving your problems, but. No, I love that. You're exactly right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so, we're gonna stick to our time. Okay. A lot of our listeners are small businesses, not the national brands and stuff you're working with, but so am I. You're right, you are too. Yeah. But they market, they advertise in different ways and different things. Like, do you have any, like, foundational tips from somebody that's kind of worked with big brands and now is thinking about, you know, think about small brands like Loco Think Tank. Mm hmm. Um, or one of my members I met with today is outsourced office. Right. She does bookkeeping and office administrative stuff. Does a killer job. Yeah. It's a little tiny brand. How, how do, how do little tiny brands take advantage of your expertise in thinking about? Mm. And they don't have to be comedy based because I suspect that you could be beyond that. Mm hmm. Like you just choose the niche. Yeah, yeah. Like it, it just, it's only fun for me to make money. Yeah, I dig it. Yeah, I'm very selfish in that way. Uh, many ways, really. Uh, no, but, um, you know, I think Here, I'm gonna Yeah, we can Mm hmm. You've heard of old elk before. Of course, yeah. You like the elk blood? Oh, I love that. Comes right out of its mouth. Like, it, it is a little, like, what part of its body is that coming from? Is it a bile or has it been, like, gut shot? You know, I hit me, I hit me harder than you. Are you, want me to get you fresh? Okay, alright, cheers. Um. We can revisit. But my wife's gonna come pick me up. Yeah, we got, Like, we literally have at least, like, two bottles of bourbon still left if we want to. Cool. Good night, sweet prince. Me and, me and two other guys, uh, drank a whole bottle of scotch, uh, in, like, episode number six or so, and I was, like, slurring so bad. We went almost three hours, but it was rough. That, you know, those early days when you're still, uh, figuring it out. Well, it was December of 2020, COVID was rampant, you know, it was, yeah, even having a podcast conversation with three people in an office, not much bigger than this, very edgy. Yeah. Yeah. I digress. No, I love that. Uh, I mean, that's, that's small businesses right there. It's like, you know, I think just to bring it back around. Yeah, yeah, please. Cause I'm a great, I just circle back around. I'm one of those. You do a good job. Yeah, yeah. So do you. Um, gosh, look at us. Look at us. We're going to be peas and carrots. Yeah. Buddies. Um. You want to go camping this weekend? I do actually. I'm planning on it. Um. We're going up to Pingree Park. Oh, dude. That's where I go. Bennett Creek. Yeah. We're going to go to Tom Bennett campground. No shit. Um, are we the same? Did we just say that to each other's brains? And then it came out of our mouth. Um, so, uh, but, but that is, but that really is, you know, like an important aspect of it. It's like knowing who you are as a brand. And sometimes like, uh, you know, it is, it is tempting. Let's say if you're a bookkeeper, right. For instance, um, say like, well, this is what I do. Uh, and that might be true. I was a banker. So was I. For a long time and it was like, okay, how does we differentiate this bank? Okay. Well, I was I was a teller I was like the kid that was like, you know at the Saturday Yeah, it was that was my background I did a small business lending for 15 years before I Quit to try to start a restaurant. Where's all the money? I spent it all like You did? I don't know. No, well, I ended up with a food trailer, uh, dove out of like upper middle class into poverty level income. My wife eventually got a nice promotion and a raise and health insurance and that allowed me to continue. Eventually focus on local think tank and make it be my number one thing. So yeah, I got a whole fun journey too. Has anybody interviewed you? Well, back in February, um, Victor Berry, um, a 15 year old exchange student from Netherlands? Uh huh, I've heard of that. Uh, Dutch, maybe? Anyway, he interviewed me with a little coaching. Oh, that's fun. Uh, so it was, but not a proper, like, long form interview, I suppose, like, in the, in my format. But we went an hour and a half. He did a great job. It was like the actor's cabaret. He was like You are a delight. He did not do anything like that, no. Well maybe, maybe we'll come back on him. Where did we jump off? It feels like we're in Pingree Park. Uh, we did, we're up there, we're camping right now. Yeah, yeah, I'll see if, Friday night. Yeah, sounds great. We're going to have some movies. Maybe I guess one of the people has a projector. Oh, wow. Yeah So we can watch the gray or something. I Okay, so I took my kids up there and they were just they were they were feeling it They were just like we're telling ghost stories It had just rained and then we all went to the tent for a while And so when we came back out, it was like 930. So it was dark. Yeah, and they were just like, oh, yeah we're getting into this and they're young and And uh, and uh, and they all kind of told their ghost stories and You know, which weren't really ghost stories. They were highly creative and my children, the best. Uh, however, they, uh, you know, they were just like, and, and all of those stories were like, there was three kids or four, you know, it was all there and their names were, you know, it was all their own dangerous animals. Yeah, exactly. No, no, there wasn't even that. And they were like, and they were hiking and then they found a place where they could all get in the water because it was, they were basically just like recounting the situation. That we were in for camping. And I was just like, okay. And I, and I was just like, wow. It's not a big dipper before they went to bed. Yeah. Well, I scared the shit out of them. So yeah, I didn't even get like more than five seconds into it. I was just like, I was like, Oh, like, you know, uh, they, they'd said there's. And then I waited a few seconds. I was like, Oh, I forgot to tell you guys. Um, I read something on the news that said that there was three campers. That were up here in this area that, uh, they found that had just died. And they were like, they all kind of like looked at me like their eyes. And I was like, I was like, they don't really know what's wrong. But like the thing that was really crazy is that when they found them, all of their eyeballs had been ripped out of their heads. And the kids were like, How old are these children, by the way? We might still get that CPS call for you. Yeah, yeah, they're like between four and nine. I love it. You don't take it. Like, just toughen them up a little bit. Oh yeah, they get it. Like, I don't, I don't pull any punches as a dad. Uh, yeah, but it was, they were pissed. They were fucking pissed at me. They were like, it's not funny. You shouldn't do that. It's a ghost story. Not a scary story. I'm like, come on. Man, let's talk about the English language semantics. Just for some context, today when I went home for lunch, um, I came home and started cooking, warming up my leftovers and stuff, and my wife was out eating her lunch at the patio table, and we're watching her brother's dogs, and our dog was there, and somehow I, like, did all these things, and nobody knew I was there, because they were all in the backyard. Right. And so, of course, I I snuck up on my wife and, on my wife and scared the shit out of her. Wait, wait, literally? Yeah, I just, I was like, ch ch ch. No, like literally scared the shit out of her? Not shit. She did not poop. Okay. But I scared her pretty good for a Tuesday afternoon. Good job, yeah. It's a good Tuesday terrifying moment. Right. You're just thinking there might be a stranger in my backyard. Like, what woman doesn't want that? At one o'clock on a Tuesday. Well done. I love that. Love you, Jill. If you listen to this, she never listens. Yeah, she's just like, after like a hundred and seventy, No, after like one, she was like, Okay, that's really neat, honey. She's like, cool. Who's got time for that? Yeah. I love you. She does. She does. But you did, okay, so we'll come back. Okay. All right. I'm going to say, I'm going to say go ahead. Bring us back. You know, um. Small brands. Yeah. no, I heard one already kind of, I think like to know who you really, yeah, know who you are, know who you are. I think there's a difference between like, you know, sometimes people discount the, the human aspect of it. Right. Some, some brands don't, some brands are just like, you know, we're all about our human relation, like all that kind of stuff. But if you're a bookkeeper, let's say, right. Uh, and your job is my mom's CPA. So this is, this is, she's now a CFO. Um, but like, you know, started as a CPA. Uh, it can be tempting to say like, I don't fuck up, right? I will. I know numbers. I can know all the things I know, the tax law, I know all the things I can keep your books and there'll be like, you can just, you can trust me. Right. However, as somebody who needs a bookkeeper or who has needed bookkeepers in the past, so much of that is also like their bedside manner, you know? So it's like, you can also bring in the human aspect of that too. So like putting some personality into your messaging, your ads, like wherever you're like, you know, putting it out there, crucially important. Right. Uh, It is important to show that there's a human and that human is going to not only help you and earn your trust and retain your trust, but also, uh, uh, you know, that they're going to be, they're going to, they're going to be a bright spot in your day because so much of what we do can often be really. Yeah, exactly. You have to sit here and listen to me talk, which means you're a saint for that. Oh yeah. I dread this. Yeah, exactly. Podcast conversation time every, every week. Normally though, it's like fun and awesome, but then you got, you mistakenly brought me on. No, it was everybody. I just hate it. It's a form of penance for me. Just like self flagellating. Yeah, basically. Basically. I love that. Oh, you've been such a sinful person, Kurt. You just have to go do this documentary of Northern Colorado business people for years and years. Most people get an invitation to heaven. You have to earn it. Right. Yeah. You're, you're, you're on the outside looking in, uh, but, uh, yeah, yeah. So, you know, so I think that that's a really important part is don't forget the human part of who you are, of what you offer, uh, Because, you know, and, and, and then involvement, you know what I mean? Like, that's what, it's something I love about what you do here and what you do with your, the community is get people involved. I think that like, that's a huge part of it. Like, you know, that is a dying function in society today. Like people don't have connections outside of like the people that live in their house with them and a few other things, the people that go to the gym with, and then they change gyms and they don't have any friends again. Yeah. Uh, I mean, you probably can't tell, but I'm a big gym goer. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you seem super buffed. I'm definitely big, but it's not But where do people find community, right? Yeah. Uh, sorry. I should say I'm definitely big, but I was not making a joke about my muscles. It was the opposite that I've put on weight. Right. You're a big cock. Yeah. That wasn't it? Oh my god. I love this. Wow. Holy shit. Like, yes. That is exactly what I was talking about. Well, I assumed. I was trying to like let people just, you know, go there on their own. I think I've seen you on Pornhub. Yeah, you have. I am Pornhub. Whiskey's kicking in just a little bit. This is nice. Do you want to smoke that joint now? It's almost 420. Oh my god. You know what? I will sit here if you want to. You're welcome to. I will die. You know, I'm going to, Oh, I have to go out. Um, I don't have a lighter in my pocket. But I might smoke a little bit. Yeah, go for it. But you're just going to have to go monologue for like, 30 seconds. Okay. Well, you know what? You can do it in here too, if you want, man. Well, I know, but I have to go eat my lighter. Oh yeah. Yeah. Too bad the elk mouth. So I could set up, it would be sweet if it also blue fire, blue fire or bourbon. Now we're getting into real shit that we can market. I mean, I could pause this, I could pause this and I could go get my lighter, but I'm not going to, I'm going to leave it in your capable hands. Um, so I'm just going to sit here and just riff. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think so. Um, let's just, let's talk about your, your relationship with marijuana until I get back with my lighter. Ready for this? Yeah. All right. Well, our listeners are, you know, I'll leave the door open so I can hear while I'm gone. So when I was born, I was a baby. Yeah. I'm just going to leave that there. Uh, I feel like I have to talk louder because like, no, no, I'm just like super self conscious. Uh, no, uh, uh, interesting fact about me. So, uh, I was born into, uh, and this is true, a family, uh, that, um, and you know, I love them all. I love them. No, I love them all dearly. Uh, but the family was, uh, like, sort of like marijuana dealers, like drug dealers. Yeah. Oh really? Yeah. In fact, my grandfather In the small town action? Uh, no, this wasn't, uh, so yes, I was born in Pleasant Hill, or sorry, born in Eugene. That makes it sound dirty, kind of. Yeah, a little bit. Well, back then it was not okay, and, uh, you know, the DEA got involved, busted my whole family. That was a big, big deal. Oh, damn. Okay. Um, and so I actually do have a relationship with, with marijuana in that way. It's very traumatic. In a way, yeah. I had to work through a lot bother you? Not at all. No, no, I, dude, I, I, I, I got, I, I, I, I, I, I eat, uh, I eat gummies from time to time. Do you like mushrooms too? I do. Uh, you know, I did that. Like I can actually trace back to a very pivotal, if not, um, uh, transformational moment. The first time that I did Mushrooms, 100 percent is why I am the way I am. And was this earlier? Yeah, I was 16 years old. Really? Yeah, I know that I Like, is that a good thing? Yeah, yeah it is. You're pretty happy, it seems like. I mean, you could be a lot less cool. Uh, well thank you. You could be in the Air Force. You could have died in Iraq. That's a backhanded compliment that I appreciate. I don't know where that's coming from. You could be a lot less cool. Uh, you could, you could be cooler. Um, no, I, uh, yeah, yeah. I'd have to try. I don't know. We'll see. I don't know you that well. We'll see after camping this weekend how I feel. Yeah. Oh man, it's going to be so awesome. Well, mushrooms. Let's bring them. Uh, but no, no, no. For, For, for, for real, like, you know, like family grew and sold, like, you know, on a massive scale, it wasn't just like a couple of pot plants. It was like full, full base, no full base. Well, it couldn't back then because back then it was like, you know, I mean, they would find it, uh, but like basements houses, you know, um, uh, you know, barns like that kind of shit. Like, I mean, it was a lot and the DEA came in through and, you know, busted, you know, several members of my family, my grandfather, uh, and, uh, and, and, and, you know, I've, I've. I've definitely dealt with it since then, but forever, you know, like, I, I don't know. There was just always something around it. And I realized that, um, as a kid holding, like, Uh, like keeping an adult secret as a child. And now I don't blame my parents for this. Like, I'm not mad at my mom and dad for this or any of my family really, but like being a child and having an adult secret is a really difficult thing to do. Remember mommy and daddy will go to jail forever. If you ever tell anybody. One hundred percent. Oh shit, dude. And I've said a hundred percent a lot of times.'cause you're so right. So many times. Um, and, and a hundred, I'm good at that and a hundred percent right. Yeah. Not 99 Um, but, but really, yeah, it, it was, um, you know, it was one of those things, oh, I never really thought about that that much. You know, I always kind of to some extent assume it's like people without kids and whatever, right? Yeah. No, but it was, it was one of those things where, um. Yeah, I mean, and I didn't really even realize, you know, what, you know, how it affected me until it was much later and just, you know, like certain behavioral issues, you know, in myself, like, you know, things that I'd like, I didn't love about myself. Were you a consumer of marijuana? I, I, I did at some point. Yeah. Right. So, uh, and actually I started pretty early. Now that I think about it, I was probably in 13, I'd steal it from, Right. Because it was everywhere. Right. I mean, some of my earliest memories. The barn's literally got 40 pounds underneath the hay bales. Yeah, no shit. Like, exactly. Like, um, and some of my earliest memories are sitting there and watching my, you know, dad's uncle, my dad and my uncle's, you know, my grandfather, like, you know, clipping buds and like putting them in big giant plastic bags and sitting there and watching, you know, them like weigh shit out on scales, you know, and like, uh, and, uh, you know, that smell, you know, of, of, of fresh, not even burning marijuana, like, you know, is happening on It's growing. It's growing. But fresh growing and like, you know, or freshly clipped, like, you know, it was just a, a, a fundamental, like one of the most, one of the earliest things I can remember. Yeah. Um, and, uh, you know, it wasn't until within the last like five or six years really that I, I did have to go through, you know, some transformation myself, you know, like, uh, uh, emotionally. Some kind of therapy associated with that. Absolutely. Should I crack that door by the way? No, you're fine. Okay. No, you're fine. Um, where I had to, uh, no, cause I partake. So it's, it's fine. Um, just not as often as I like, you know. You can be a, like, uh, Mark is a one hitter quitter. Is he? Hits and quits. One, one hit. Yeah. Yeah, not me. I'll, I'll. I'll finish that jug with you and then I'll be wasted and I can't drive home and I'll have to call Uber. Exactly. But you could, you could be someone. The other night, the actually, like recently I actually ate too much of a gummy. Right. Bad, bad moment for myself. I was just, so you're a small scale guy too. You're like biting gummies in half and stuff. Oh yeah, dude. Check out this. I was at my weed store the other day. I like, uh, flower power. Um, partly because it didn't get too crazy during COVID. Like, like some of the places were like, we're online only to drive through and whatever. Anyway. Um, and the dude was like, uh, Oh, I asked about a hundred milligram liquid thing they had on sale. A hundred milligrams. Right. Yep. And it's like a bottle and he's like, well, yeah, a lot of people just take like a capful, that's five milligrams and you can just put it in your water and it's, there are different flavors and stuff. So you can get like the cherry and weed. Um, or if you're somebody like me, you might just drink one. Oh my God. If you've got a super high tolerance. And, uh, I was like, that doesn't sound like me. And he's like, yeah, last weekend was my, or a couple of weekends ago was my birthday and I, I had 500 milligrams. And he's still alive. Yeah. Yeah. He said he was pretty out of it for a while. Uh, but he had 500mg of edibles as a birthday treat. You know what? I would love to wake up on a Sunday morning and just be like, you know what? I smoke like a half ounce a month. Yeah, right. I'm gonna wake up today and you know what I'd like to do? I'd like to, uh, I would like to, uh, be completely removed from reality. Right. For the, the massive part of the day and possibly even tomorrow too. Right. I'm just gonna do that. Well, and really not I couldn't. Completely enough. Like, if I could take a bunch of acid, it'd actually be completely removed. Yeah, right. It'd be worth it. You know, it's fun. Maybe not on your birthday, but. Right. Like, weed's just gonna, like, make you, like, suppressed or something. Yeah, weed's just gonna, yeah, like, it'll, like, it has, like, it, it tops out at some point. Right. Right. Yeah, there's a maximum. Yeah. And after that, it's just gonna be, like, uh. Why didn't you just do mushrooms? Like, Driving a train with the brakes on, you know, there's a certain amount of weed that's like opening the windows wider or something for your train. But, but certainly there's a, there's a level at which you're just going to slow everything down. Yeah. You know, I'm just not like, like, I don't love making myself have to think about the same thing over and over. You know, like I already do that when I'm sober right re engage with that same yeah exactly like my autism spectrum, you know Is is is already doing that i'm already hyper fixating. So yeah, yeah Um, but yeah, so, you know, I think the other thing that I just want to get to you with like the small business thing Yeah, yeah Uh, I'm sure they're all listening still. They are. Yeah. They are. We have like a really high, like finished. Oh, I know. Rate. No, you guys do. Like, that's what I love about it. I was just making fun about it. If they get in, like some people get in for like five minutes and they bounce. Yeah. But if they're in for 20 minutes, they're in for the rest. Yeah. Like almost everybody finishes it. Welcome to the, uh. That's why you put the loco experience at the end. Yeah. There you go. Fuck you. Oh shit. It's four 20. Oh yeah. We talked about that already. That's why I smoked that joint. Yeah. You fucking did it, man. Maybe I should just make that a thing. Whether I'm interviewing a pastor or You're like, this is happening now. Right. Hold up, you want to join me or not? They're like, no, no, no, like do I need to repent? Uh, and you're like, yeah, you might want to. So they're small business things. The other thing is like media, right? So we talked about that at the top of the hour. Yeah, isn't media dead? Like everything but Facebook and Instagram and Google, right? No, no, not at all. when people think about media, they think about like buying TV spots, right? Well, connected TV. So, um, it will be and whatever, but it's also on it's it's, there's a, there's a commercial base for everything except for, I think right now, Apple TV. Right. So, uh, prime YouTube, YouTube, Hulu, Hulu wasn't early. Yeah, exactly. It wasn't really one, but yeah, same, same thing. FUBU to be right. Right. Right. Um, but like there, there's a, uh, geographically target those things. Absolutely. So if you're an HVAC company, yeah, you theoretically could benefit from. You probably wouldn't well placed ad. If you were an HVAC company that was local, you probably wouldn't do that on enough geographic right. I don't think they do it that specifically, or at least I haven't like encountered that they might. Um, but. I still believe in traditional advertising. And if you're a local company, like people still, like people still love billboards, you know what I mean? Uh, they don't like getting things hung on their, on the door. Right. So don't do a door hanger because those things is that's the fastest way to make someone fucking hate you, uh, but, uh, as far as I'm concerned, um, in, in my experience, but you might like design a billboard that fit into an advertising. Oh yeah, absolutely. You wouldn't buy it. You wouldn't arrange for a bunch of billboards, but you would, yeah, we wouldn't create it, but we would place the, or we would create the, you know, make the creative design. It would be part of the campaign that probably had some other tie in things that were absolutely radio or whatever else. Yeah. I think most brands do sound stuff or just video stuff. Oh man, I do, do sound stuff. I do a lot. We do a lot of music in our spots. Uh, it's something we're kind of known for. And maybe people are just like, uh, party lens is going to do another song, but like my background is music. And so I, you know, play all the instruments. So there's times where we'll just like, I'll just go and I'll write a quick jingle. Yeah. We're just like the whole spot is a, you know, is a, is a, is a, is a song. Yeah. And then we'll just go out to somebody to like, either make it or sometimes actually play the instruments with, you know, there was a, uh, creative director, uh, named Matt, another creative director named Matt that worked at party lane. It was a great drummer. And we did for a brand called holy veggie, wrote the song together, you know, and then recorded it. And it was just us, you know, it was me singing the songs, him playing the drums, me playing the guitar. It was, yeah, it was great. Are you a pretty phenomenal singer too? I don't want anybody to feel like they can't challenge me to a karaoke off, but they shouldn't. I dig it. I dig it. Can you do a Chris Isaac Wicked game? Yeah. Okay. I've nailed that in karaoke before. Yeah, that's a tough one. It really is. I've failed at it twice, uh, but nailed it once. Yeah, you gotta commit. Totally. Like, that's the problem with Chris Isaac. Um, yes. But it's a chorus. Right. Yeah, if you fuck up that transition from your regular voice to your head voice, that falsetto, that falsetto. Like you're like, people just, they'll just be like, no, I've checked out. Yeah. No, sorry. You're not Chris Isaac. Um, so, but, but I, I do think that like, Uh, a lot of small brands, they, they, uh, you know, or just like small companies, you know, even it's just like one person, they look at like things like billboards or, uh, you know, bus stop, shelter, you know, like that kind of stuff, um, they think it's too expensive. So I would, I would, I would say for everyone, especially in these smaller markets, go talk to a media company, find, you know, do your research, find the best in class media company here, especially one that like, you know, thinks local, he understands like, you know, all the buyers, like, you know, understands like on, you know, a clear channel and sure on the, and all that kind of stuff, uh, go in and, and. And just ask, right. Just see like, how much would it cost for me to do a billboard or how much would it cost for me to do a spot by on like, you know, at the, like, you know, a local TV channel and just see like what they're in, ask what the results should be. Ask of the metrics of success are asked for like with a return on best, they should have all that kind of stuff figured out. And you can actually say like, okay, a 2, 000. Spend media spend, which might sound like, well, it certainly might sound like the world. Yeah, it is a lot, but also it's expensive not to have any customers too, but you can also reach so many people, you know, at, at once in a local area. And if you do it right with some creativity attached to it, but not at the expense of your message, you can actually make a pretty compelling argument. And so it is possible. Totally. So, yeah. So I think that's the, like, do it well, if you're going to do it. Is what I think I just heard to a certain extent. Rely on the people who do it better than you. I would say that. Right. Like, I could say, well, I could buy a bus stop thing and it says loco think tank 6 call Kurt, you know, or I could do something that actually catches eyes. I, I was just talking earlier today with Matthew Fugate. He's a realtor and he had like these bus stop signs where he was like allowed out somehow or something. He was just like the coolest realtor in town. And I don't know if that worked for him or not, but at least it was different. It caught people's eyes all the time. How do you set yourself apart from the rest of the people? Right. I mean, it is, it is that simple. Uh, so to that point, if we're bringing it down to its, you know, it's simplest form, what we do. Isn't really that hard. What is hard is the details, like the craft of it, the, uh, you know, understanding what converts, uh, understanding how to, you know, it's like all that foundational stuff, the chassis. Yeah, absolutely. And it's harder in some ways, especially with like, you know, like the younger generations, I like Gen Z for instance, like everyone is so confused by them. But our, our agency actually does that really well. Right? Like most of our brands are, you know, brands that, that market for You know, primarily to Gen Z and you just have to like, understand that, like, they're just human beings, right? They're just existing in a different reality than we did when we were their age. When I was their age, like the scariest thing in my world was two things. It was, uh, Y2K. Right. Oh my God, the entire world's going to shut down. Uh, and then, um, uh, the, uh, the, you know, the nine 11, right. That was kind of like, you know, in like a 10 year span. I'm a little older than you that like. Russia and end of the world stuff and comparing the sizes of our missiles compared to theirs and stuff was part of my vernacular. Yeah. Right. And yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's, but, but for them, like they are, they're, they're so exposed to the reality of humanity in a way that we just weren't right. Like they grew up seeing people fail online. They grew up seeing people succeed spectacularly by way of, you know, Well, I'm taking advantage of the, the, you know, the world around that. I mean, like they, they see humanity in a different way and they're so jaded by it. And so they're just real, you know, they're, they're, they're really are the realist generation as far as I'm concerned. And they are likely to lose ground in the standard of living. Like Americans have lived at like. Two standard deviations above the average of the world forever for, or something like since World War II virtually. And we're going to lose that. It's just too expensive to labor stuff here to some extent. Well, until all the money redistributes. Right. Yeah. Well, for another 40 years. Yeah. And who knows, like if, if we lose reserve currency status, then there's going to be a lot of shift. And, but how you do things domestically matters a lot in that. And what's, what, what we're trying to do. If we get a lot of questions. Yeah. I mean, we could like that, that's a different, that's a whole different podcast, probably not one that you would invite me to because I'd be like, I don't know, man, let's advertise about it. Let's take a, uh, let's take a 30 second pause and go take a bathroom break. And, uh, we'll do a. Flash fly over a little bit and come back to some fun stuff. Okay. That sounds good. All right. Cheers. Awesome. One of my, one of my favorite things to say about business is that, uh, the root word of business is what? Busy. Yeah. Isn't that weird? Is that really true? Yeah. Interesting. Well, and it's part of like, there's, there's an economist I used to follow and don't really anymore, but that's not just cause I lost track frankly, but he said the, the, the foundation of all economics is two words, add value. Yeah. And you got to stay busy to add value. Absolutely. And you were talking about adding value to your clients and their ad buying and being different in that regard than being the creative force behind hitting the core of who somebody is. Hmm. And adding value in how you communicate that, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's the core of your business. Kind of like how, what's your core? What's, what's the core of your business? The core of our business is, uh, uh, well, I can boil it down to like, there's, there's four, like, I'll say the tenants because the core can be defined a few different ways. But I think what makes us, us is, uh, for very human things. And I think there was a sentient moment when I started this agency that I probably wouldn't be able to do now. I don't know, it must've been blocked out or something because I was like, how do we. What are the four things are going to be, you know, four or five things are going to be the most important to us? Yeah, what's gonna make us us not we're a comedy agency or you know, my background like I did this that and the other Right, right. I just I was part of we had to meet. Yeah. Yeah, exactly It's kindness generosity trust and empathy. Oh, well, that's awfully nice. Well, I know it's very hippie dippie kindness generosity Trust. Trust. And empathy. Yes, sir. Wow. Uh, and um, those are our guiding principles as a company. Um, and whenever we're feeling off or, you know, we feel like we might've maybe lost a couple of pitches in a row or something, uh, or, you know, or, you know, just as, as a virtual agency, because we live all over, we don't have an office to talk about what's well, you can just focus in on one of those at a staff meeting. Yeah. Yeah. You might be able to exactly more than anything. It's just like, you know, I have to, you know, it's a helpful reminder. Just be like, This is a tough situation. I'm going to come into it. Does this fit the filter? Yeah, right. You know, I need to remind myself to be generous with my, you know, my time and my energy and my, you know, my, my, my vibe, you know, uh, or whatever that might be. Or, you know, like this is like very, you know, functionally, like I want to be as generous with our, you know, money as possible. So you can pay as people pay our people as much as, as we can afford. Right. Right. So it is those four things, man. Like, uh, they, they came to me in one night. No, no, but, but really it was one of those things. Like I remember writing it on a whiteboard when I was just, you know, kind of thinking this, this agency up and, uh, and it just like, they just stuck and everyone was just like, yeah, that's who we are. That feels right for party land. Did you see the values on the side of the tank? I did not before. Uh, we, so it's a, it's a long story, but we updated our values and they became kind of foo foo and you know, collaboration and then a big long definition and stuff. And last fall I was like. Fuck all that. Like what's what's simple gets done and you know, we've got to be able to communicate that and I've probably done a poor job of it, but, um, be smart, be kind, be true, uh, be local, be the change. Be you nice. Like for a founder owner, like if you can be smart, you can be kind, you can be true, stay local. You know, you don't have to stay local. You can build a national brand like Cheap Ahead has here from Northern Colorado and are you serving, like one of the things I love about your business is you're bringing all kinds of money to Colorado from other places. And you're sending it back out to some of your contractors. Um, but you're bringing it here from the big cities and stuff. But we, we, you're almost like a primary employer in that way. But there was so, there was such a rich history of advertising agencies in Colorado, uh, specifically, uh, Crispin Porter Bogusky. Okay. It was in Boulder. They started in Miami and then came to Boulder. Okay. One of the best ad agencies for you. Uh, yeah, 20 years. I mean, like, uh, uh, Bogusky, he still, at least I think still lives in Boulder. Um, but there's a lot of offshoot. You know, agencies, you know, very talented people, whether it's a production zone or whatever. People move to Colorado by choice. Yeah, exactly. You know, they stay in LA or stay in New York by convenience, but. It's funny because I think that the people who stay in this would seem antithetical to, you know, what we know of Colorado, but they stay in San Francisco, sorry, in Los Angeles and in New York because it's safe. Yeah, because they're close to the heartbeat. Coming here is a lot like being a pioneer in that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you're just like, I'm gonna work. Or Austin is another one of those pioneering towns right now. Yep, yep. Or Tennessee, parts of Tennessee. Yeah, Nashville. Yep, Nashville. I have a friend who just started. Even Knoxville, I think, a little bit, or one of those other towns. Yep. My friend Tom Hamling, uh, he, uh, opened a place called the mayor, uh, in, in, uh, it's an, it's an, uh, another agency in, in not, or sorry, in Nashville. Um, you know, but so, so we're all over the place, you know, but, but, but really like this is, uh, equidistant to both, you know, close, right. So it makes sense that you would be here as an ad agency because like, for those of us, much easier flights, like instead of flying from LA and trying to go spend a weekend in New York or, or. Tuesday, Wednesday. It's so much easier. It's like, I'd much rather be on a three hour flight than a six hour flight. Totally. And then the time changes that much less too. Yeah. He just, you know, and like, you know, plus it's just, it's kind of so goddamn beautiful here. You know, I'm going to say we put enough kind of Stuff from your past into the story here, talking about weed farming and things that we don't have to go all the way back through the life journey where there are two or three defining moments. You mentioned eating mushrooms, but then you still try to sign up for the Air Force after you ate mushrooms. Yeah, I did. So, oh, we haven't even talked. We're gonna have to have you for a while. We're going to have to have you on for a number two episode. Yeah, we'll, we'll just jump in the, I love them. I'm a once in the morning and once at night kind of guy. I dig it. Yeah. Um, but we just don't, don't have the time and we always talk about faith, family, and politics. Do you want to get into it? Yeah. Alright. Yeah, yeah. Right now. And so we're gonna, we're gonna do the Time Machine episode next time. We'll, we'll bump into you and your little pot dealing family in the rural Oregon. Me just like, you know, traipsing through the woods with my Seven year old carrying big boy secrets. Yeah, with my 80, uh, 80cc three wheeler and my BB gun, my dog. Yeah, yeah. Fuck yeah, man. I dig it. Um. Where would you like to start on the, on the faith? Oh, and, and you want a little bit more? You know what? I'm good. I'm good. Yeah, I'm, I'm there. I was gonna say we, I'm gonna, okay, I'm good too, but Jill's gonna pick me up. So, which would you choose, um, for, like out of those three, you just get one more little taste, um, out of curiosity. So the Maker's Mark from William Oliver's, the Old Elk, or the Oak End? You know what? Uh, so we just did a, a pitch with And we didn't really talk about Old Elk yet. No, we haven't yet. Um, but we just did a, a, a pitch with, um, the parent company for Maker's Mark, they're called Suntory. Okay. It's a Japanese, uh Yeah, yeah. liquor brand, you know, holding company. Yep, yep. Uh, we didn't win, so I'm going to put that aside. I'm not bitter. Sorry, I'm not bitter. I loved them. They were fucking great. Like they're, they're so awesome. And it wasn't a, it wasn't maker's mark. It wasn't that, that specific group. It was a new thing that they were bringing over. Uh, but I just, just because of that, uh, uh, I'm going to move over to, I'm going to keep it local. Uh, I would do the ax and the Oak. Okay. Yeah. You don't actually, we'll have another just a little bit. I'll I'll go like I can do a third of a shot core shot. Okay. So faith, Family politics at your discretion, you know, they are so intertwined I'm gonna start with I'm gonna start with politics because that's good. I think it's good with they are. Yeah agreed. I agree I'm gonna start with politics because I I feel like it is wild time Yeah, it is and you know, there's so many like it is it probably is the one that is the least Uh, important to me, not that I don't care about what's happening in the world. And I'm not involved in all I kind of said, don't have an opinion. It just seems that, uh, it is the one, and I have a wild family, but politics is definitely the one that has the most idiots involved. And I'm just like, like, it is like, I mean, Look, if I was going to write a TV show, which I have before, yeah, I've written for a TV show and, uh, you know, and I've written, you know, pilots and stuff like that. If I was gonna do that, I would start with how can I, how can I take, uh, inspiration from American politics? Cause it is so rich with characters. Oh man. And, and, and the plot lines golden girls have got nothing on the dementia person vases, orange man, bad. I mean, it is, I'm going to say I'm just for the sake of like our listeners, because they're like, you know, they don't come here for this. I'm sure. I'm going to say that right down the line, everyone, if you get into politics. The ego on you. You think? Really? The ego on you. I think for some people it's service oriented. And then they get corrupted. I think as you go up And then they get ruined. I think as you go up is I would absolutely say that Uh, want to help on a civic level from, you know, like a local, you know, or even the County or whatever. I believe that I could help now they wouldn't elect me because I'm jackass, but, um, but I would love to help on a local level, but as you march up the line and the Character that you have to become and the, the, and the, uh, right. Well, especially with a fundraising machine, like the amount of dick you have to suck. Well, there's that, but also the, the singular, actually, that was a metaphor. Well, you become a cartoon kind of, right. So you think about Bugs Bunny. So Bugs Bunny would do things like he would, he would, he would, he would, he would do like, you know, exactly what Bugs Bunny would do in every situation. Right. And those are my favorite kind of people. Like, I think they're really funny. And I'd make ad campaigns about them all the time. Right. That is what politicians are. You are a one dimensional, I only do this. I cannot do this or else I will off the people that gave me money. I am, uh, financially beholden to this image that I have created and sold to you. And I can only do that. Having people who are one dimensional lead our country is to the, is, is, is to the detriment of the future of our country. So it's all about funding is what I think I'm hearing. It is, it is. But like, you know, like we're people. So just the really rich people who just tell us all what to do. That would be better. I mean, if you think about it, like, think about like, think about the constitution, right? We, the people, right. That's how it starts. Yeah. So you're an individual Liberty guy. I am sounds like a little bit, I wouldn't even go that far. Like, I don't even think I've solidified that, you know, because like it changes so often. I'm just like, so it's like, it's like, The whole process is so boring to me. I'm just like, what the fuck? You just don't really care. It's don't care. It's just that I don't know where to jump in, you know? I mean, like, I know what I, I know what my values are as a human being. I know, uh, so let's talk about that. Who, who earns your votes? Like, are you a party over person, person, or are you a person over party person? Like, what do you care about? Well, I mean, every four years is different. Right. Right. You know, we don't have to talk national scale. Like, what do you really, like, small business is pretty hard sometimes, right? Like there's a, there's a, there's an obstacle to getting something to be sustainable, you know, and, and, and then there's an obstacle to scaling it, to paying your people as much as you can and still send your kids to college. Um, like what are some of the things that are important to you in that space? I think that business, and it's certainly on a, on a local level, business is what keeps us the, you know, keeps our communities going, right? Like we live in a, an, an area that it doesn't have a ton of, well, actually, you know, Fort Collins actually does, but like, let's say the most of rural America doesn't have a lot of, you know, big businesses. They don't have Amazon. They don't have, you know, totally, they don't have Boeing. They don't have, you know, they've got a great elevator. Yeah. Cafe, you know, a school system. Yeah. Right. So what really keeps those, you know, those communities, you know, together, if somebody can be a small manufacturer and employ 22 people, that's a huge deal. Right. Yeah. Right. Uh, so I believe in supporting small business, so whatever party at whichever time is going to believe in that, because I, I mean, as much as I want to say, like, you know, They're like, everybody has their thing and this is our fucking ticket and whatever, like it, it changes, you know what I mean? It's like, you know, even, even Trump is like, you know, like he doesn't have a real consistent opinion on abortion. Totally. Right. Well, and he's kind of part of the, his whole mega thing is maybe some nationalistic protection after Republicans for a long time were like free markets. Let's just. Let China sell us everything. Yeah. Right. Right. And then, and then he's like, we're not going to do that anymore. Yeah. Like, like, yeah. How about, what do you think about, I mean, we just had an assassination attempt, like no shit, like four days ago. Is this the first podcast since that time? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've, I've mocked the Biden debate or I don't know why I called the Biden debate because that was the headline coming out of it. It was Biden, you know, like he, he didn't have his best day. And I have a lot of people coming on that are just anybody but Trump. Yeah, frankly, like probably half my guests are like, I don't care if he's retarded or a vegetable, I'm not voting for Donald Trump. I've been, I've been advocating for RFK. Yeah. I think RFK would probably be the best. Cause I do think that Donald Trump is corrupted by the pharma, uh, industrial complex. Of course he is. He's a businessman. At least that, right? They got his beef pockets. Of course he is. Right. Like, and then the thing is like, he's so inconsistent. If there so much of what he says, like, and he'll say, right. I don't trust him. No, no, you can't. You can't trust that man. So can I have you vote for RFK? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Yeah, sure. Like he should be the Democratic nominee instead of I can be bought with whiskey and use instead of Biden. Like, I'm so embarrassed for our country.'cause don't, don't, don't gimme that shit that people didn't know that Biden should have been in abreast home or whatever you call that. I mean, like years ago they knew, they knew what it was. I knew it in 2020. Yeah. They like, they knew by the way, they hit him in 2020 and just. Like they amp him up on freaking, uh, uppers for a few short press conferences in the state of the union. But that doesn't hide the fact that he's lost his, like he was never that smart and he's lost his mojo. And so he used to be when he was younger, he was a firecracker, but he was a plagiarizer and he was always ambitious, but he wasn't ever that smart in my opinion, because he wouldn't have caught, caught, caught. Plagiarizing then, like, don't be a dumbass. I know, but that's what I'm talking about with like, politics, right? But he was at least capable. You get up to a certain point, you become a cartoon. Right. Right, and so Well, and so he's bought and paid for Yeah. Alzheimer's patients? Well, who knows? Yeah, I mean, I can't comment on that, but I certainly can say that Uh, I think the two party system is broken. I'm just going to go back to that. Yeah. I'll be one of those people. Two party system is broken. So you, you are on board for voting RFP? Absolutely. I love that. Well, why not? Cause he should be the nominee, but the Democrats would never have him. Cause they couldn't control him. I wish that there was an opportunity for a third party candidate that wasn't Ross Perot, you know, kind of a situation, you know, where it was just like, there was an opportunity for there to be an actual, like, not just a 50, 50, an actual uniter. Yeah. Right. Like something that like, you know, people could say like, you know, I'm. It's, I'm not binary like that, right? Like, I'm not, like, red, I'm not blue, I'm kind of, like, sometimes I'm this, sometimes I'm that, you know, whatever, I'm not speaking for myself, I'm just speaking for most people. Because I think most people are, you know, a version of both. Should we just do a speed round? Yeah, sure. Guns. I own one. Abortion? Uh, uh, I think that it is up to, gosh, you know, you caught me off, uh, I think it is up to the person, the individual. I'll leave it up to the individual. The person carrying it? Yes. Um, your baby mama at eight months wants to have an abortion, decides to have an abortion without your consent. How do you feel? Uh, well, I wish I would have a say in that. Uh, but you know, at eight months, I'm assuming that she, I would trust this person enough to know that there was probably a, no, it's just super inconvenient. And she's really mad at you from a Facebook post that you put online. Oh my goodness. Like I would be devastated. Fair. I'm just saying it's complex. Yeah. Um, let's talk about immigration, um, open borders, uh, path to citizenship, deportation, path decision, citizenship for anybody that's been here so far. Yeah. And. Educational on that path, like long, hard seven year path. I think, I think that people who come here are coming here not only to, I mean, there's a, hopefully most of them are here trying to come here to have a better life. Yeah. Myriad of reasons that running from something, you know, like, you know, they see all these parents are from Mexico. She was born in Southern California, bilingual and she's awesome. I'm so proud of her. Like she's upscaled herself so much working for us and I'm proud of them. Yeah, no, I just think that like, I would probably expect if I was going to go to another country that they would say like, Hey man, it's cool if you come here because you're going to bring value or, you know, like, Hey, that thing that you were running from is really fucking scary. But when you come here, you have to contribute. Then you have to be an American. Yeah, well, or you have to pay taxes, you have to find a way to pay taxes, you know, you're like, you know, can you vote before you pay taxes? Or become a citizen? Can you, can you vote first? You know, I think that there's a package deal that you get when you accomplish a certain set of tasks. Okay. Right. And some of that is Even a green card maybe doesn't get it. You can be here. You can stay here permanently. Not a visa. I would say no visa. Like if you got a green card, you're a little bit more established and like, you're going to be here for a longer term. And like, I think you should be able to vote. Um, Ukraine. Oh my God. Fuck Russia. Fuck Russia. Okay. So you, whatever it takes, we can go broke, put Ukraine and NATO. I think, I think Ukraine has Russia starts World War III. Well, that's Russia's fault. That's not mine. Well, but you don't think that's complex with the way that NATO is slowly expanded. It's very simple. Russia bad, everybody else good. Okay. All right. Okay. And I'm fucking around. I shouldn't be that, uh, that cavalier about this subject. Um, I think that, uh, that Putin is. Uh, is you got to stand up to, I think, I think, I think Putin is Russia. And so it's like, you know, it's not so simple to say like Russia bad, because Russia also good, you know, there's, there's a lot of good people, like a lot of good things to come out of Russia. I think their leadership is corrupt. I think that they are Machiavellian. I think that they are dangerous, dictatorial, all those things. And, uh, they're, they're literally, I think, uh, embarking on a genocidal Endeavor in a country that they think Well, they're a dying nation otherwise, in some ways. Um, just because of their own demographics and what they've done here with this war. I mean, they just want to go back to where they were, which was like, you know, a massive world power. They feel like they, you know, have lost And they deserve it somehow. Yeah, yeah, they deserve it. Do you think, uh, Putin is more likely to back down to Trump than he would be to Biden? No. He didn't give a fuck. He didn't care. Okay. Would you if you were Putin? Yeah. Yeah. I think so. I mean, unless knowing that the guy across the way was a little bit crazy, um, but he's just, but he's earned, but he's earned, he's going to keep part of a good part of Ukraine. Like that's how it's going to shake down. Honestly, is Russia is going to kind of keep Trump's going to win. Russia is going to keep what they've claimed was a Russian Ukraine is going to join NATO. And then they're going to have a little line there somewhere across Ukraine. And that'll be a friction point that we can always use. Spur up the military industrial complex economy if we need to. And then Putin's gonna die and then something else is gonna happen. Right, who the hell knows. Who the hell knows? I'm just sad that people are dying. Like, that's really sad. Let's talk about your kids. Mm. A good segue. We'll go to the family thing, yeah. Um, well, we can talk about their mom, too. Uh, so we do, we'll start with a one word description of your children, these four to nine year olds. Mm. So, uh, let's start with the, let's start with the youngest this time, just cause this is a pretty weird episode, we'll just change it up, so a one word for the youngest, and then a little expansion. Mm. Uh, James, uh, uh, you know, he, he is, you know, it's not, it's actually quite pertinent to James. Uh, he is the one that, uh, he's four years old. He's turning five in August. He will, he prefers to wear jeans. Dresses and beautiful things. And he even says boy music or girl music based on who's singing it. And so it's like, he loves Taylor Swift. He loves JoJo Seawide. Like he, like, he has a very strong opinion about his, his whole, like what he loves in the world and he is very beauty focused, like, he's just like, I just want, he's like, I want to be beautiful. Could be a fashion designer at some point or something. In fact, he wants fashion design lessons. He's like, dad, can I get fashion design lessons? And I'm like, Man, I don't even know how to track that down, but I will figure it out. Actually, CSU has actually a school of fashion design. Do they really? An underappreciated one, yeah. No shit. Yeah, yeah. Well, so he's, he's four years old. He dresses primarily in dresses. Uh, and he loves Pink, and he loves Taylor Swift, and he knows every song. How fascinating. And that is, uh, that is just his existence, man. Like, he is just so focused on that. Do you have a one word for him? He's so complex. He's such a complex little child. Uh, I would say, uh, his one word is, I would say beauty. Like he's, he's hyper focused on beauty and he, and he can identify it and he knows when it's something is not beautiful and he has a very, he's so far away from my own experience that I can't even really. I wish that I, I wish that I, I'm all about utility almost more. Yeah, me too. So, or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. I wish that my, I woke up in the morning and was just like, I'm gonna put on something beautiful today, What a, like what a, like what a gift. I was like, Matt's pretty interesting. I gotta wear my orange pants today. What shirt goes with my orange pants. Oh yeah, that one does. Floor one That has the same, the same, the salmon flowers on it. The blue ones. Yeah. I love it. How about your middle? Okay, well, okay. Uh, major. Major is my, uh, mom's maiden name. Oh, cool. So it's a family name. Major is, uh, he's, he's, uh, he just turned six. Um, he is so gosh. He's, uh, he's, he's very emotional. Uh, and not in like a, I'm going to freak out. No, no, but he's, he's like, but he's like, uh, he, he will travel the entire emotional spectrum over the course of a day and spend time at each crucial points. Uh, you know, he could wake up in the morning, just be a little, like, he's like, I'm not going to eat this bagel and you're not going to make me. And I'm pissed about it. Why is this bagel even here? And then like three minutes later, he's going to be like, dad. I want a squirt gun because I want to spray water up into the world and make it rain on my friends and have them think that that feels good. Like he's, he's like such a So with all my kids, and so this actually might be a relational maybe, yeah, this, this might help this discussion for all my kids. We talk about their superpower and it is exactly what you're talking about. Like what's the one word, uh, James brings beauty to all of our interactions, right? And that, that like beautiful is like his, uh, for major he's, uh, very, uh, he feels very deeply. He's a deep feeler and he exudes those feelings, but he is. Also expressive too. Yeah. And he's expressive and he's, and he is, uh, influenced by the feelings around him. So if things are tense, you can tell that he gets like, yeah. And I will say this. So like, you know, I made light of it earlier, but like, I, I am a level, uh, level one autistic. Level one is like not what they used to call, uh, functional autism, uh, as opposed to, you know, uh, I'm a functioning autist kind of a thing. I'm a, I'm a ADHD and maybe a slight level of autism are my. Nephew who was just wrestling in a national wrestling tournament camp thing is like, he's so much like me, but he's like fairly autistic. So I'm, I'm, I'm at least fringing on it, you know? So I understand you. So autism is a very complicated, uh, you know, superpower of sorts too. It is absolutely. If you appreciate it and if you lean into it, you know, so it's like my, my hyperfixation, you know, like all the things, you know, that come from it, like have made me the person I am today, as you would expect. but it is paternally passed down. Uh, I wonder sometimes if my boys have it because boys are more susceptible to it. Um, but major going back to that, but they, they are very, uh, they, they fixate and they are sensitive. They're very sensitive. Uh, and, uh, so, so majors. Which is a big, like, especially in the modern world. Like, boys that can actually feel emotion. And I'd encourage that. As long as they stay men. Yeah, exactly, and they will. Even if they don't. Or if they don't, right? I'm not trying to say that like I think gay is better than trans, personally. Like, not to get back into politics or whatever, but if your youngest son ends up Being a gay man and a fashion designer, I think that's way better than cutting his junk off and trying to turn into a girl. You know, uh, and I respect your opinion on that. Yeah. I will say that, um, whatever makes someone feel whole. Because there's nothing more alienating in this world than feeling alone. Yeah, fair, fair. And recognizing, please, that People's minds are delicate and they get enough of the wrong kinds of messages or hope in the wrong kind of thing that it couldn't be destructive. I think that it's important. Like I think we're going through a bit of a cultural, psychological significant thing right now. I totally agree. Like it's a contagion. Like maybe there's some people, yes. I do think that parents have a responsibility to not like enforce their perception of the world on their children. And just don't jump to it either. Sure. I mean, there's, there's extremes on both sides. I mean, it is, it is a sticky place to go complicated because I also don't want the government. Telling people what they should do. Yeah, right. Like it's all hard. It is we have seven minutes left Faith we haven't touched it Yeah, I went through a manic moment of hyperfixation. So again, it could go back to the autism thing. Um, but, uh, there was a point in my life where there one day, and this is water right there, by the way. Yeah, I've enjoyed it. I've enjoyed it when we were on our break. Sorry, that was so rude of me to just interrupt you. Well, everyone was urinating. So I was like, why not? Like make more urine, um, by way of drinking, uh, water. Um, so, You became hyper fixated. So there was a moment I woke up one day. Okay. And, uh, and it literally was exactly this. I woke up in the morning, uh, it was about, uh, six, five or six years ago. And, and I was like, I'm not Christian. I was, I was, I was raised. I don't believe in, I don't don't believe in Jesus as like, you know, the Christian or Catholic, you know, virgin or whatever. Okay. Uh, and then I was like, If I don't believe, if I'm not Christian or Catholic and, you know, or I'm not Jewish, Jewish or anything like that, I'm not, I don't come from those worlds. I mean, of course, you know, you can become Buddhist or whatever, but like, you know, like I didn't assign to a, to a, uh, uh, you know, a religion. I was like, well, I must be, I must believe in science. And then I was like, I don't know shit about science. And so I went into this situation where I was like, I'm going to figure this out. I started learning everything I could. About, uh, life as we know it. We'll just put it that way, you know, all the difference, like it's like, you know, scientific evolution, big bang chemistry, biology, geology, like in astrology, all this stuff. Along the way, I was like, Oh fuck, science doesn't have all the answers either. And I got fucking scared. I was like, Oh shit. Interesting. If science is wrong in a lot of ways, because I was able to go through stuff and they were like, we think that carbon dating, or we think that, you know, this or whatever, like, there's a lot of supposition. Then what is this circuit me? Is this before? Yeah, yeah, this was like 2017 ish. So I guess it would be six or seven years ago now. Uh, and, um, and I was like, well, I'm going to figure out, I think that. And I, at this, like I call it a manic moment, um, I was like, I think I can figure out the reason why we exist. Yeah. I can figure out the, the secret to That's pretty humble. I was like, well, I know, I know, for real. Sorry. And I was like, no, but I know, it was crazy. I was like, I think I can figure out the meaning of life. Okay. Sorry, I'm not laughing. I'm laughing with you. Dude, you are, uh, because it is crazy. But I feel like, at least for me, I feel like I did. Okay, and what is it? Oh, and this is, everyone's gonna be like, No shit, you're not smart, or whatever. But like, I, I, so I had this whole Um, like theory from like, so this is like fresh plate. Yeah. Yeah. Like, like from a new religion could start here. Yeah, exactly. From primordial ooze, right? Like what we are now and why we are here and what's going to happen. Uh, and, and, but it's really sweet. Like we've been looking for something to tie everything together. There you go. Um, and what's funny is that like, after I got to that place and I was like, okay, oh my God, I have this fucking, like this narrative, this thing that makes sense to me. And then I found out that a lot of it was on ancient aliens. Yeah. that I probably heard while I was asleep and it fell asleep, TV shows. I'm joking, but like, um, uh, but really what it comes down to is there's, and I think if you're dear listener, if you're, if you're paying attention still, uh, I have a, um, like one of my, one of my things is, is hyper focusing down to the simplest form of something. And, uh, it is fear and love. Oh, well, fear not is said like 350 times in the Bible. 100%. There it is again. Uh, but it's either, you know, and every decision that you make I believe is a version of fear and love. Interesting. And love is like, I trust that this is going to happen. This is going to be positive. Like this is going to be happiness or whatever it is. And then there's over here, like, I'm going to be more careful. Right. Right. And so you start to think. Well, and like something like smoking this joint right now is a little bit fear based. Like it's meant to kind of create a little separation between you and the world or universe maybe. Or is it? Maybe not. I would say I've definitely bonded over a joint too. I would argue that I would argue otherwise. I would say like that, that losing, uh, like being more inhibited, like, or sorry, sorry, losing, losing inhibition is a commitment to, uh, trust and trust in the, in the, in the bond that you and I have created today and also trust in yourself and trust in like the energy is just going to flow through and like you have now opened the door. to a more realistic conversation than you would have otherwise. Right. Well, and I find that very intriguing. And I think, you know, I think Jesus would approve of, like, looking at your world and your decisions as Whether or not they're based in fear or love. I absolutely agree. And if you screen it through love and you do it, it probably does the trick. Yeah, man. So I, uh, so I, I went through this whole thing. I was just like, and I have a, like, an understanding of, like, how humans evolved, why they evolved, why they evolved so quickly. I mean, it is just like, I mean, I've, like, Have you written this? I've written it down. Yeah, it is. It is a thing. Is this a future movie script? No, no, probably not. Like, this is kind of crazy, but I do believe that, you know, I believe in, uh, in, in a higher self, like not, not necessarily God, but I do believe a greater force. I, I believe there is a creative force, something, you know, Made the whole thing go bang in 13 billion years ago or whatever like what's that? Oh, I believe that there was an energy that moved something forward I think that we can only understand a big bang because we don't understand Yeah, cuz like we understand things and what's his name said unmoved mover. Yeah, right. We understand things in like five fuses, you know, it's like, like cause and reaction. Like that's how our brain works. I think that there was something probably way more complex and dimensional than we would ever be able to understand. Perhaps something outside of our university. Yeah. But I do believe in spirits. I do believe in the, we come back here. I do believe in. So where do you think the whole Bible and Jesus story and stuff came from? Oh, just metaphor and imagination, right? Yeah. In the same way that twin language develops between a couple of girls in Kansas or whatever. Yeah, I think it's just, you know, I mean, humans are, but over, but I think I would have to say at the very least, uh, a super hyper distilled wisdom in my opinion, at least it comes from a, a place that we can't access. Easily as human beings when we're awake, right? It is something that is, you know, you like, uh, that we only get to feel in certain situations, right? Like, so think about like this, uh, the French call an orgasm, like the little death, right? Which we all, you know, we've all seen that movie, but if you, uh, in my experience, uh, playing music with people. Transcripts provided by Transcription Outsourcing, LLC. I also think that fighting with someone, have you ever been in a fight with, a fist fight with someone? Have you ever gotten in a fight and like an actual Not like a long one like I I confronted a guy that was Abusing his girlfriend one time and he popped me in the mouth and dropped me. Yeah, that was the end of that if there's a I've been in I've been I was proud of that. Yeah. Well, there you go. Yeah, fuck Yeah, man Like at least you broke that up and she broke up with him soon after and she was dating this loser for like a year Before that good for you, man It's high school. You change people's lives. I do. Yeah, I try to, um, but, but, you know, getting in a fight with someone is where to like, essentially like all consciousness goes away and feel starts to take over. Right. And we stop like, I'm going to do X and like your, if this, then that brain goes away and you just start to feel like that is where our souls start to take over. Okay. And the, and the human experience. So it was a soul, an enduring force. Oh, absolutely. Okay. A hundred percent. So like it kind of swirls into the universal consciousness for a while and then it gets to be an organism for a while kind of thing or something? So, uh, I, I believe there's, I believe there's a heaven. I believe that there is a place that we all, that souls exist. Uh, not in the way, not in the biblical sense. Sure. It's more of a, it's not quite as conscriptive. Maybe it's a little bit more. Well, let's put it this way. Flowy. If heaven was like church. It would fucking suck. Right. Boring. Yeah. Right. You know what I mean? Like, I want to go to, I want to go to a place where I can feel all the feels and I can, I can relive all the things. And of course, like, you know, our human experience, like, you know, doesn't translate up there. Well, there has to be high and low moments too, right? Like we're kind of thought of it. It's like paradise all the time. But what is an orgasm without being cold sometimes? You have to have the, the, the positive, like love can't exist without fear. If you bring it down to those two things, like they are, they are. intrinsically linked and they, it's like, it's like the, uh, the devil wouldn't exist if God wasn't there. Sure. Right. I dig it. Um, so anyways, I mean, we can go into that another time. Yeah. We're going to book a number two and when we come back around, it'll be fun. Um, number last question. Yeah. The loco experience, the craziest experience that you're willing to share with our listeners in this setting after three bourbons. I, I mean, do you think, do you feel like you're going to buzz it at all from me smoking that joint? I didn't feel that. I do feel a couple of the drinks. Um, My crazy experience, a crazy experience, the loco experience, uh, that you'd like to share. Oh my God. I've had so many, like, there's so many that are rushing through my brain right now. Oh, I mean, and there's some of them that are so great. And then there's others like, like, like I lost, I've lost friends, you know, I've, I've seen, you know, uh, okay, so let's do, let's do two things. Let's do one that was, um, Advancing, um, and then one that was, um, maybe challenging. Okay. The advancing one, I can go to a pretty specific one. And we've, I've talked about a couple of times here already, but, uh, the moment when Danny McBride pulled me, like, he's like, Hey man, can I talk to you after we, we were, we had just shot the second campaign we'd done too. Uh, and he was like, Hey man, can Can I, can I talk to you? It was the last day of shooting, uh, that we had wrapped on the last day. Uh, and he, he was just like, Hey, come to the trailer. Um, and then he started kissing me. No, I'm just kidding. Uh, he pulled me in there and he was just like, he was like, Hey man, like you've written some of our favorite Kenny powers jokes ever. I don't want to like, you know, fuck with this, you know, advertising thing that you have going on, but we're, you know, need a little bit of help with writing season three. Would you be interested in coming and, you know, writing for season three of Eastbound and Down? Oh, cool. And, and I was like, fuck my advertising thing. I would like, Oh my God, yes. You know, and I had really supportive boss. It was just, you know, uh, at an agency called 72 and Sonny's still around. So one of the best agencies in the world. Um, so making great work. Uh, and so you like bounce. And I was encouraged to bounce from that job to go and do that. And he was just like, go, you can always come back to 72. If I was a good podcast host, I would have watched some of that. Season and stuff. Cause you, in our phone call, we talked about, well, you can now, you can go, I will. Yeah. Everybody should we'll link it. Yeah. And, uh, and so that, that, that was, that was like one of my heroes asking me to come over and be a part of his world and then getting to like work with Will Ferrell on a daily basis and Craig Robinson and meet Matthew Conahay and work with him. I mean, it was just, it was one of the most, uh, surreal. and, uh, transcendental. Moments of my life by far. Would you like, do you have imaginations of doing like some standup comedy or something? There's people that are out there that are really good at that So i'm more of like hang out in the back and you want to be do you want to lift up the I want I'll be really cool. I like someone who's a great performer to do that stuff you know, I wouldn't mind you know, and i've written for those kinds of things and uh, I I'm, i'm not the one that stand up there and just be like guess what but like most You Uh, like SNL, right? SNL writers. Most of them can transition over into and be on, you know, on stage. A lot of them have. Yeah, a lot of them have. Uh, and I, I could, but it's just not, it's not my proficiency. You shrink away from it a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, me too. But like, I love this where I can have a conversation with somebody and put the focus on them. Yeah, me too. That's fine. I don't really want them to focus on me. Yeah, I love to watch other people get the, get the shine. Yeah, like, you're so much smarter than I am. Like, and better looking. They're so good at it. Your cock is so big. It's like, go fuck, man. Okay, so now the, so that was the advancing one, I suppose? Yes, yeah. And now a, uh, challenging one. Loco experience or yeah, like even if you just got so wasted one time. I couldn't find the elevator I mean Madonna like pick me up That's happened so many times me and Madonna assorted past You know, I'm just gonna say that like Uh, and I won't get specific just because, you know, like that, some of that stuff is personal, but like what I've realized is that, and this is not an excuse, but your trauma, the things that you've experienced in your life, whether it was your fault or not or whatever, but the experiences that you have can have a cumulative effect on the, the decisions that you make as a grown adult and you, um, for as, as responsible as we all try to be. Thank you. and want to be for our actions, especially if, you know, like if we've gone through it and she's like, you know what, the most important thing that of the mistakes that I've made is that me taking is that I, that I need to take, uh, uh, uh, like accountability for them. I need to be responsible for them. I need to say like, Hey, you know what? That was my fault. I fucked up. And here's all I'm going to change. Um, The biggest thing that we can do as humans that I've found, because I have made those mistakes, I have gone through those trials and I have come out the other side. Uh, I've gone into them, uh, and come out of them fucking broken in my life. I've hit rock bottom. Um, but the hardest thing to do out of rock bottom is to stay there. It is, uh, it is hard for all of us because we're very quick to dismiss. Like, it's like, all right, I went through that thing and I'm fucking better. Now, the hardest thing about hitting rock bottom is that you have to stay there for the rest of your life. It's like being an alcoholic, hold on to a certain extent. You have to stay there through, you have to have one, one foot in the grave, so to speak, because if you forget. Where you came from, then you will never truly be fully healed for the rest of your life. I believe that you always have to remember, and it can become a strength because you remember the, the, the truth of humanity is that we fail. The truth of our existence is that it's hard. Wasn't that one of your things? Absolutely. Yeah. Kindness. Yeah. Empathy. It's like, so if you have the good fortune, and I do mean it like that to hit rock bottom, your Opportunity to be a more empathetic human being is greater because you've been at the worst. You've hurt people. you've helped people, you've hurt yourself, you've helped yourself, you know, like whatever you would like, however you want to draw that diagram. Um, the most important thing that you can do coming out of that is to never forget where you were a little bit better every day, every month, absolutely. Every year. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so next time we're going to talk about music. Cool. We're going to talk about like childhood. Yeah. Being in this, Drug cartel? Yeah. No, not really. It was kind of, yeah. Anyway, yeah, no, no, no shit. Um, and we're going to talk about your kid's mom, uh, which I believe is someone we've talked about already, but not much about, you know? Yep. And, um, we'll, uh, it'll be fun. Yeah, we'll go. Should we go tequila next time? Yeah, let's do it. We'll do three tequilas. My friend, thank you. This'll be fun. That was so fun. All right, cheers.