There is No Straight Path with Ashley Menzies Babatunde

The path to success is never linear.  There are twists, turns, moments where you leap frog ahead, and then setbacks.  

Today's guest has learned to embrace the winding, twisting path to success - but it didn't always come easy.  

Ashley Menzies Babatunde is a lawyer, DEI strategiest, and storyteller.  Someone who always aimed high and ACHIEVED her goals, Ashley hit a setback when she failed to pass the bar not once, but TWICE, which led her to question everything.

Now, she is on a mission to share the human stories behind the highlight reels on her podcast "No Straight Path."

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Transcript

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I am so thrilled today for our truly inspiring guests. Ashley Menzies, Bob Mattoon day. Ashley is a lawyer D I strategist storyteller, and a host of the podcast called no straight path. She is an overachiever from childhood, a Stanford and Harvard graduate and someone who's navigated significant setbacks with Brazilians. And grace, and now she's approaching motherhood. Now in this episode, we are going to dive into her journey from her childhood ambitions to her professional struggles and how she found her true calling in storytelling. We'll discuss the challenges of overcoming perfectionism, which woo is running rampant. These days y'all redefining self-worth and finding joy in what truly matters. Trust me, you do not want to miss this conversation. You are listening to the glass ceiling and sticky floor podcast. The podcast that will empower you to shatter limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors to uncover infinite possibilities. So you can live your best life. I'm Erica Rooney and I'm on a mission to bring more women into positions of power and keep them there. I'm obsessed with all things, growth and abundance. And I'm here to talk you through the tried and true secrets to get you to level up your career and your life. We talk about the hard stuff here. Imposter syndrome, perfectionism, fear and burnout. So pull up a seat, pop in an earbud and let's dive in. Welcome to the Glass Ceiling and Sticky Floor Podcast. How are you today? Hi, Erica. I'm doing so well. Thank you so much for having me. I am thrilled that we are having this podcast conversation because we have so many things that are in alignment, but let's kick it off for people who might not yet know who is Ashley Menzies Babatunde. Yeah. Yeah. So I've got to start from the beginning. I got to go all the way back to my childhood because I, I think I was born an overachiever. Uh, I guess who I am now really quickly is I am a lawyer, DEI strategist, and a storyteller and podcast host. And I just love people and centering our humanity. And a lot of that goes back to my childhood of being this overachiever. I had a huge breakdown when I colored outside of the lines, uh, when I was four years old, compared to my cousins who would go on to the next activity. I had really high expectations of myself. I wrote, wrote all of my goals down at the age of 10 and said everything that I wanted to do, and that included becoming a lawyer. going to Stanford, going to Harvard, and also things that I love doing now, like shopping and that I love pasta. So, um, also spelled Stanford wrong, but you know, I got there. And most of my life, I had big dreams and I was able to achieve them. I thought the path would be really linear. I worked really hard. Not that it was easy. Um, But if I worked really hard and I put my head down, I thought I'd always see positive results. And for most of my life, I did until I didn't. And that was the California bar exam for me. It was the first big professional setback. I failed the exam twice. I lost my job. I had never experienced something that challenging and it really made me. Look at myself in the mirror and figure out what I valued because it was so devastating and it made me realize that I tied too much of my self worth to my, uh, to my achievements, too much of my self worth to my achievements and not enough of my self worth to my humanity. And the thing that saved me during that time was storytelling. Other people sharing their stories and telling me that they had gone through similar experiences, especially in these high achieving spaces. No one really likes to talk about failure, but that was instrumental for me. And so I knew one day I wanted to do something with storytelling. And yeah, I would just say I love all of that because it really brings me to, honestly, my brain to Instagram, right? What are you going to do? Go on Instagram and post, Hey, guess what? I failed the bar exam again. No, you know, like we don't do that. And those are the things that we just kind of bury down inside because we feel so much shame attached to them. So. I'm really interested to hear, like, how did you break out of that? How did you move forward and kind of get out of that shame cycle and feeling like your self worth was tied to your achievements? Yeah. So I think first it took time. Like I think it did take, that whole period was hard because it was my first big failure. And I think one, it was the community that I had and the stories and knowing that other people had gone through it. And so it helped me with time, normalize it, which was so nice. And just recognizing that I wasn't alone. And I think that. I also needed to kind of show myself how resilient I was and I had to try to overcome it. And so it didn't have to look like passing the exam. I did ultimately pass it, but that's like deep inside what I wanted to do. And so I moved forward and even though I was feeling the shame, even though I was feeling devastated and upset at the time, I had a goal. It was my lifelong dream. And I had to see it through. And so part of me kind of put my head down again, studied for the exam, did my best, and was able to overcome that. But in that interim period, all of that time, I started, I had like time to think because I was in between jobs, I had time to kind of process everything. And it made me think about why was this so hard for me? And I think that. Cause I talked to other people, I remember meeting a woman at the exam and it was her third time taking it and she had just a very nonchalant attitude, she's like, Oh yeah, it's my third time, it's a California bar exam, it's 50 percent pass rate, this, this happens. And so also it's like, why am I struggling so much with this attachment to achievement, to perfectionism? So it really allowed me to go on this like really great self discovery kind of journey Ultimately with time, I think I was able to, well I know, I was able to move through it and get to a place of inner peace, but What also helped was sharing my story. So during that time, once I finally passed, I think it was 2018, I actually wrote a blog post, so you're right. So I didn't go to Instagram, but I did actually, I think I went to Facebook. So I wrote a blog post about, uh, The California bar exam. And this is when Ariana Grande was, uh, her song. Thank you. Next. So it was, what did I say? I said, uh, my bad relationship or my complicated relationship with the California bar exam. Thank you. Next. Something like that. Um, and they got like a lot of attention from different folks and different people. And they reached out and made me realize that there was a gap in the market here. And that maybe we need to start telling these stories. So sharing my story was also just so therapeutic. I mean, to be honest, that's why I started this podcast, because I found myself struggling with all of my own sticky floors. And as a high achiever, ambitious woman who was very driven and often not familiar with failure. Yeah. It was so powerful for me to connect with other people to really see the other side of that coin, right? We always see the shiny, great things that are going on, the highlight reels, but everybody has that flip side where we have our disappointments, we have our struggles, and those are the things that we just don't often share. So I love that you're bringing this storytelling to life. How are you doing that with others? Like, what does that look like for you? Yeah. So now I am doing it through podcasting. So at the time I did think about a podcast cause I love podcasts. Uh, but you know, life happened, started my legal practice, a lot going on. Uh, but I did, that sparked the idea. And in 2020 when I feel like a lot of people were putting together different creative projects and being more reflective, I started to really work on the podcast. And it was also this space of joy for me and a really challenging time. Uh, at that time, my mom, unfortunately, I was diagnosed with a pretty rare cancer, a stage four and it's called myosarcoma. I like to say the cancer just because it is rare and I want to raise awareness, but it's, um, so we were dealing with something really challenging. And it was. My mom was super, super positive and she didn't really want to talk about like the hard things, especially when she was going through it. So we talked a lot about the podcast that year, the last year that I really got to spend with my mother before she passed was about this podcast. It was about these dreams I had, and it was just this beautiful light. And so in order to actually deal with the grief, uh, two years later on her anniversary, the Uh, the anniversary of her birthday. Uh, I needed to do something with that grief. I needed to figure out something else to do creative. And I thought about the podcast. I said, my mom, she would want me to put it out. Like, that's what I need to do. So I put it out. Three weeks later, let's say this is divine timing and my mom's doing something up there, uh, HubSpot, they reached out to me to join their HubSpot, to join their podcast network. So the HubSpot podcast network. At that time I was practicing law, I was doing white collar investigations. They asked me to be a creator, join their accelerator. I had to Google creator and accelerator. I didn't know what was going on. Um, and, but then I thought about what my mom would say. And she said, girl, you better take that opportunity. Cause I was saying all these things, limiting beliefs, like I won't have time. I can't do this. I, you know, all the different things I at first said, no, but then that voice from my mom said, you, you need to do this. And I said, yes. And it really, Just allowed me to go down this really incredible journey where I got to pour into my passions for storytelling I got to connect with lots of folks talk about the things I care about and it has been so beautiful So I still work on the podcast and tell these stories and it's just my place of joy I love it. And what I love about podcasting is that it really will test your perfectionism. Because there ain't nothing perfect about any podcast episode out there. Oh my goodness. So when you talk about your perfectionism and the struggles with perfectionism and being such a high achiever, what were your strategies for really facing that sticky floor head on and being able to able to overcome the perfectionism? Yeah, I think the setback, the fail, the first failure with the bar exam was actually so helpful for me because it allowed me to just let it go. Because that third time that I took the exam, I had to release all expectations and kind of release my perfectionist ways. Sometimes when you're holding on to a goal so tightly, it can be challenging to actually achieve it. Sometimes if you approach something with a little bit more ease, I think it. allows you to things for, for things to kind of unfold in ways that you would have never imagined. And you're able to give yourself a little bit more grace, a little bit more room for failure, a little bit more room for exploration. You're able to focus more on curiosity. And so I think during that time I was able to pull all these different strategies and not that it doesn't creep up. But it's about how do I have a healthy relationship with achievement? And so that's also something I tried to do is redefine my relationship with achievement. So I think I was able to move past perfectionism, but for the most part, I want to be honest, you are the intense, This little girl who colored outside the lines is still there. But having that constant reminder of, is this good enough? Is this the goal that I'm trying to achieve? If I don't achieve it now, I can probably do it at another time. Having a realistic expectation when it comes to timelines. So there are all these things that I started to, over the years, kind of, and I, cause I think it's a muscle. Right? Like this is when you are wired a certain way and then when society reinforces perfectionism, when we live in a society, especially American society, it's capitalist, it's individualistic, it's, you know, we had the girl boss era that's changing. A lot of us, You know, don't want to work now, uh, but, We don't want to boss so hard. We don't want to boss so hard. We're tired. Which is helpful. It's helpful for our mental health. We're talking more about mental health. So society is changing, but the way we did come up as millennial women, and so I talked to a lot of millennials on my podcast, especially, and then, you know, Gen X boomers, like that was the thing. And so I think that just. understanding that it's still going to be there and constantly reminding yourself that good enough is just fine. I think it's helpful. Good enough for you, right? Because it's also, it's so important to know yourself and to recognize that we're all on this growth journey and we're all going to have these phases, right? And I think about even my own podcast journey. When I first started the podcast, go back and listen to the sound quality, figure out the editing. Like it was all horrible compared to where we are. Two and a half, three years later. So it's like, you're right. You're good enough. Two years ago is so different from you're good enough today. But what I love to talk about is this relationship with achievement, because as you were saying, these millennial women, right? We want to have it all do it. I'll be at all. We were told we were sold this beautiful promise, right? That we could do all of those things. And I, We're so stuck in this place of trying to be the best wife, mom, partner, lawyer, executive leader, and it's impossible to balance all that and we're chasing the achievement, we're chasing the status. How can we slow down as individuals and like you said, redefine that relationship with achievement so we are not chasing after this unrealistic expectation of what it means to have it all, do it all, be it all? Yeah, I think the first thing for me is you. figuring out the difference between intrinsic motivation and extrinsic motivation for yourself. Right? In society, as you said, we're going to have to perform in different aspects of our life. And, but a lot of that is based on these external accolades that for me, left me feeling unfulfilled. And so I had to think about, you know, I had accomplished all my dreams, but what was really meaningful was actually deep human connection for me. It was the love of learning. It was relationship building. And so perhaps it may not look so shiny to the outside world when I'm pouring into those things, but those are the things I love. And so when I'm at work, when I'm doing the podcast, when I'm in my relationship My husband, when I'm in my friendships, I try to go after the intrinsic stuff that matters to me. And that helps me reframe, you know, the societal expectations and honestly helps me care less. That sounds so bad. But, but I'm like, if I'm fulfilled, if I'm moving towards my purpose and I'm happy, then the rest of that stuff really starts to. feel less consuming. You start to think less about it. And one even small thing that I try to do, it's like, I love reading. I lost my love of reading during law school because they had me reading very poor, boring texts. My husband would disagree. He was just reading the constitution this morning because he loves the law. We're very different. But now what I do, which I don't, I think my old self would look at just reading for fun and for pleasure as a waste of time, but I try to read 10 to 15 days, 10 to 15 minutes. I know it's very short. Depends on where you are in your life and how much time you have, just to get a nice Atlantic article in just to get a little bit of whatever book I'm reading in. And it always energizes me having dinner with my girlfriends. I was so tired last night. We had dinner at 8 PM. We were out till 11 because we were talking so much. Because we had so, we were so energized, you know, moms of small kids, I'm eight months pregnant. Like, but because it energized us and though we were intrinsically motivated to do it, that's a part of our version of success that fills our cup. And so I think that was the first thing that really helped me kind of redefine my relationship with achievement. I think the second thing was just recognizing that I. really care about achieving still, because I think sometimes I tried to overcorrect when I went through that period where I was trying to disassociate who I am from my work and my self worth from my accomplishments or even my failures, I did a little bit of overcorrecting and I tried to pretend like I was apathetic, like, This achievement doesn't matter to me. You're going after this goal. I just care about living my life and, and joy. And, and I, yeah, but like, I really want to achieve goals and I want to be successful in certain ways. And that's okay. You know, I think sometimes I think I was doing too much. I wasn't being honest with myself. So recognizing that achievement matters to me, I think was also extremely helpful. And knowing that I'm just going to have to continue you. To rein it in when it comes to the perfectionism. And earlier you mentioned really being in touch with your purpose and living in your purpose. And I think when you link achievements with purpose, you're getting that like double whammy of amazingness. When often we find ourselves going after the wrong achievements because we think those are the things we should be doing. I should get a promotion. I should climb the corporate ladder. I should have this house and that car. when really those don't line up with our purpose or our true intrinsic motivations. So my question for you is, what would you, what piece of advice would you give someone so that they can maybe give themselves the space that they need to see, am I going after the things that matter most to me? Or am I going after all of the shoulds? The things that I think I should have and should be doing. Yeah, that's a great question. I was actually talking to a friend about this recently, uh, who has climbed the corporate ladder, has the beautiful home, the wonderful husband, the two kids, and was being, uh, I don't even know if it's like solicited or for a country club and in some other group activity that would allow them to maybe, you know, network and do great things in their career. And she said, We went there and I just, I have limited time and I don't know if that's what's gonna really make me happy. Even though on paper it would be great for her to join this, you know, group. And I, I said to her, yeah, I mean, you just have to define your values. You got to think about what is most important to you and it might change, but at this time in your life and make sure that you're living a life that is reflective. And that takes time. There's lots of exercises out there. I'm sure you work with your clients to do some of this, this work, but figuring out what's important. So in this phase of my life, family, it's always been, but family is very important. So making sure I have that quality time connection has always been important. A certain level. Uh, freedom, but I also recognize where I am in the, in the totem pole of my career. Uh, and so, you know, financial security is important. So all these different things, you know, figuring out what you want. And then making sure you're living accordingly and you can always test it at a rate. And I think you have to pay attention to how it makes you feel. Like you literally can just ask yourself the question, am I enjoying this? Do I like this? Or why am I doing this? Because sometimes you have to do things. Sometimes you have to climb certain parts of the. corporate ladder, depending on your financial circumstances, where you come from, your responsibilities. I understand that. Like we can't always do everything we want to do. Some people can, uh, at some point. And that is the goal because I'm a big dreamer and I believe I'll get there. But I think that recognizing that feeling is so important and also pay attention to envy. I believe it's Lori Gottlieb that said this in a book I was reading and Envy will show you what you want out of life. And there were certain things that I was envious of, I noticed, and it was folks who were starting their own businesses. It was folks who were tapping into their creative passions. And as soon as I started my podcast, that envy went away. And because I was pursuing the work that I love. And when I look at my life, and I think of. What am I envious of, or if there's anything, maybe there's something, maybe I'm not living in alignment right there. And so how do I course correct? And how can you put those steps into place? To close those envy gaps. And I love that. I love that you talk about envy because we so often think of it as a bad thing, but it is a really great signal that you might not be living in alignment or that there's something more for you out there. And to tune into that and don't look at it as such a bad thing. Look at it as that signal, as that indicator of like something is missing. But I will share with you a story because what you just shared really reminded me that I mean, my whole why was always helping people. It's why I was a personal trainer back in the day. It's why I got into HR, but a being an achievement chaser, just like you got to the top of that corporate ladder and kind of looked around. And I was like, is this everything I should be doing? Is this, is this what I want to be doing? Is it the same? And that's when I started my, my coaching practices and I started working with women. And helping them get into positions of power without sacrificing their sanity or their sleep for their success. And after my coaching sessions, I could not ignore how lit up I felt. I was working extra hours to do this, right? It was outside of my job, but it was giving me For lack of better words, it was giving me so much life. It was giving me energy. It was filling my cup. So anyone who's listening, I encourage you to look for those activities that light you up. Don't just at the end of a stressful day, give up and sit on the couch and say, Oh, I've had another really hard day. Figure out what those passions are. Dig deep, find those core values. Like you said, and. Um, see how you can pull that in because you don't have to quit a job. You don't have to start your life completely over. Sometimes it's just a small tweak, like picking up an executive coaching client and seeing how that fuels you. So I love that. Yeah. It's like what makes you come alive. It's so true. And like, and you have to test it because some people they can be, it can be challenging because they're like, well, I don't know. I don't know what that is. And so that's where I always go back to the personality tests are helpful, paying attention to. To what even drains you, you know, if you can't figure out what lights you up yet, at least we can use the process of elimination and know, okay, well, this, this right here, this ain't it, you know what I mean? And so kind of working through that way and being intentional, but I don't know if five years ago, I could say what really lit me up. I could say what my goals were. I could say what I wanted to do. I could be quite confident. I think the world would look at me. And say she's got it together, but I don't, I didn't know that spark. I didn't have that spark. Uh, and I, and, but it comes up, the other thing I'll say too, though, and this is why I ask people on my podcast is I ask about. their childhood, only because usually your childhood is a space where you haven't been infected by societal norms and expectations yet. You actually are your truest self for most people. That's an overgeneralization for a lot of people if they have that freedom and that blessing to be able to be in that space. And so you can kind of go back to like, Oh, wait, you loved. painting at this time, or you loved reading books, this kind of book, or you were very inquisitive, you know, or you were, you know, my husband was a state debate champion, uh, in high school. And so of course he's a trial lawyer. It's like that is in, he loves this kind of stuff, you know, uh, but, but me, you know, I was more of the people person and the mentor and in college, I wrote feature stories and love. Storytelling, but then financially, it made more sense to go to law school. I remember talking to my journalism professor and he said to me, and he had worked for the Washington post. He said, it's a dying industry right now. Go to law school. You can still tell stories, but through the process, I lost the story. I lost the storytelling, even though it was something that was in me earlier on. So even going back to your childhood, to your high school years, wherever you felt most alive to, and trying to bring that back to your adult life, to your adult life, which is often plagued with. expectations and responsibilities, I think can be extremely helpful. What I love about this entire conversation is so often we think of success as just this very linear If you do A, B, C, you will get X, Y, Z. And, I mean, you of all people, your resume is probably, like, in a gold plaque somewhere with all of your achievements labeled. And then we took, like, a hard left turn into storytelling. You know? And really roped that in. So talk to me about how were you able to, I guess, manage this relationship with achievement and saying, I'm gonna take this left turn into storytelling. I'm gonna incorporate it into my life. And I, like, am still going to believe that I'm the bomb. com and I'm doing all the things. Yeah. You know, I think, I don't know, this is probably the thing that I've been the least intentional about because it's so natural. And I think it goes back to really what you said about just what gives you life. And when you find it, you gotta keep doing it. Like even the conversation that I'm having with you right now, I, there was a point where I was thinking, you know what, I'm going to take a break. I'm getting, I'm getting this pregnancy fatigue. And so I'm just, it's so real. It's starting to hit. And I remember saying, you know, I think I'm going to just. and come back to it. But then I started having these conversations. I was like, you know, I'm going to take it all the way up till I can, because it, till I can take it, you know, maybe this, Baby comes because it is so energizing to connect with like minded people who really care about changing lives from a self development perspective. And I'm always inspired by it. Like even just your whole story is certainly one that, you know, Feels really reflective of mine and how I made a pivot. I haven't talked about this, but I made a pivot from law to more of the people space and I'm loving it a lot more than my legal practice because it's just more aligned with who I am and what I care about and my strengths. And I was writing something for work yesterday and it was a personal kind of storytelling piece because I run the communications part and time was passing. And I remembered, because there's other parts of my work where time does not pass, but it was story. And I remember running into the room and telling my husband, I was like, Oh, I got to remember, I've got to continue to make sure that I'm taking on projects that go back to personal storytelling. Because I'm like, what do the kids say? I'm like, I'm in my bag right now. Like, listen, I'm in my bag, okay? Oh, well, what I think is. So key to, to like double click on for some corporate language, throw it in there, right? That's what the corporate people are saying these days is that you never know until you try, right? You were like, I'm just going to try this because it feels right. It sounds interesting. I'm going to do it. And then boom, you get hit with that feeling of what lights you up of what ignites your passion. And so again, for anyone who is listening, like it's okay to try. You didn't walk away from being a lawyer. You know, you are still doing all the things, but you are finding a way to be multi passionate and to make that all of who you are. Now, I do have a question for you. I'm really intrigued by this. Because motherhood is the ultimate test of perfectionism. Because we all go into motherhood with like this beautiful idea of how it's all gonna be. And it's never that way. Are you anticipating any, any struggles with stepping into that space and really releasing the perfectionism? And if you are, how will you deal with that? Yeah. No, I, it's gonna, I am who I am. So I've accepted that there will be challenges. And, I will definitely struggle with the perfectionism, I think, but I'm just excited. You know, I think that like what I've learned about life is what I did try to do, I think a little bit earlier too, is I've always tried to be so overprepared because of my perfectionist tendencies and tried to have one vision of how things will go. And I think. I'm trying to go into this doing the things that matter to me, uh, because it does help me. My husband's like, yeah, if you need to have your checklist, if you need to do this, if you need to take this class, cause that's me. Cause I'm like telling him he needs to do all these things that he has not done, but it's okay. Uh, he's doing the financial plan for the family. So he is, he is doing different things that are more aligned with his personality and. You know, so I know it's making me feel better that I'm taking these certain steps to be prepared and that I've, yes, maybe looked into the daycare and have figured that out. And yes, maybe figured out maybe the next Montessori school when the baby is three and the baby's not even here yet. Yes, I might have looked into these things, but I'm not. going to attach too much. It's just like, I know who I am and I know these are the things I need to do to make myself feel comfortable before I become a mother. But I, life has shown me that it is unpredictable and that I just have a certain level of resilience now when it comes to dealing with uncertainty. And the unexpected, especially after just the first professional setback after losing my mother, you know, all of these things are preparing me for this stage in my life. And I know it won't be perfect, But that's okay. Like I think old Ashley would have like been going through all the different scenarios and I might, you know, I don't know how I'm going to, I can be like a nervous Nancy, uh, with my child perhaps, like I don't, I don't know how I'm going to be and how I'm going to show up. But. I'm not I'm excited about it. We'll just see and then I'll write and I'll add another podcast episode and let everybody know like who I am perfectionism and motherhood serving me today. Yeah, daily blog. Right. And not comparing like I think I have some friends. I've tried to talk to my mom friends who are happy. And who talk more about the joys of it and who are pretty honest people like we're quite vulnerable in my friendships But I kind of try to talk to them and a lot of them try to keep doing the things That mattered to them and they leaned on community and help and so like that's another big thing like knowing I can't do it all by myself or just with my husband. We've come Like, as I said, like an American society, we're not as communal as we used to be. Like, I feel like everybody used to live by their families. Aunts and uncles would come, but like we've moved because of careers and different circumstances. And so we're fortunate to be in a place in LA where I grew up. So we have a lot of extended folks and family and friends. And so I'm going to say yes to help, which I think has been hard for me. I was going to say that has always been a really challenging one. And I see that a lot of women who are ambitious and driven. I will get, do it and I will do it myself. And so that is a big one releasing and letting go and accepting the help and asking for help. Yeah, it's a big one. Well, Ashley, besides baby, what is next for you? Yeah, that's a great question. So I think I'm in a space. Or we talked a little bit earlier about paying attention to what lights you up, and I talked a lot and say a little bit, but, and I'm noticing that I'm in a space in my life where I kind of found my good enough job and I found the career that I really like that has helping me live the life that I want to live, uh, which I'm so grateful for because I think I focus so much on my career. And I'm. deeply inspired now more about conversations about what makes life worth living. I want to talk about love. I want to talk about relationships. I want to talk about grief. I think that's been a big kind of, uh, theme in my life. Uh, and, and how do we live a joy, a joyous and purpose filled life. So I think I'm entering my Oprah era. I've realized, and I'm happy to provide all the career tips. And I talked to, you know, I mentor folks every week and I do love it. But I think when we get into those life conversations, that is where I feel the most fulfilled. Uh, and I think it goes probably back to the podcast. That's why it's the humanity behind the accolades that I like to really focus on. We'll rarely talk about what people are doing. I'll say it in their bio, what they do for their career. But really we're talking about. How did you grow up? What was the hard thing that got you here? How has it changed you as a human? How do you want to change the world? Like, those are the things that I just, I can't stop talking about. And so I want to take that a step further and perhaps even move that outside of the career realm. So there might be a rebrand for No Straight Path. We shall see, or this is my No Straight Path journey, um, but I've been thinking about that. I love that you want to go deep. You are wanting to go deep. You're not wanting to go wide. You're not wanting to touch everyone and everything and be everywhere. You're wanting to go deep and you're very intentional about that. I love that. Thank you. So tell me, Ashley, if people want to hear more from you about you, they want to find the podcast. Where can they find you? Yeah. So, uh, very millennial of me still haven't, I'm really into Instagram. I really need to get on Tik TOK. I have it, but it's, it's, you know, I'm just not there yet, but my personal Instagram is ms underscore Menzies. me there and you can follow the podcast. No straight path. So no underscore straight underscore path on Instagram. And then I'm also on LinkedIn as Ashley Menzies Babatunde. And so folks can follow me there as well. And I love to connect. I love just sharing stories. So, Oh my goodness, me too. And then the one question I always have to ask is if we could go back to the Ashley who for the second time just failed her bar exam, what piece of advice would you give her today? With everything, you know, now don't put so much pressure on yourself and give yourself grace is very cliche, but Ashley at that time really needed it. Ashley needed to know that it really will work out and that you will be living in your dreams. Everything that I've wanted. And that I've set out to do is where I met in my life. And it feel, I wanted a fulfilling career. I wanted a great marriage. I wanted to become a mother, not a mother yet, but I wanted to become a mother. Thank you. You know, and I've wanted to like pursue my dreams and find my passions and I've been able to do all of that. And so it'll work out. Give yourself grace. It'll take time, but that's what we are here for. We are here for the time, but I love that you are currently living in your dreams and you got there because you did not walk a straight path. So that's such a beautiful story, Ashley. Thank you so much for sharing your story with me today. I know that your story of resilience and perfectionism and finding the joy is going to resonate with so many people. So thank you for your time. Thank you so much, Erica. I appreciate it. This was really fun. Wow. What an incredible conversation that was with Ashley Menzies, Bob Mattoon day. I tell you, I just love it. When I am talking with women who are out there, they are doing the most. They are making massive changes in the world and they are also following their bliss. Now Ashley's story of overcoming professional setbacks, redefining self-worth and then finding her joy in storytelling. It's so inspiring to me, especially because it just resonates with who I am is also a goal chaser. Now, if you are learning how to navigate your own sticky floors. Balance the high achievement with personal fulfillment, like Ashley, like myself, and really find your true passion. This episode. I know it just resonated with you. Now make sure that you connect with Ashley, follow her on Instagram, checkout her podcast news straight path, and remember to rate, review and subscribe for both of us. But thank you so much for joining today. And remember that the only ceilings that exist are the ones that we place over ourselves. Let's smash them together