47. Getting Uncomfortably Kind with Nadine Fonseca; author of Only a Trenza Away

Nadine Fonseca, from Mighty Kind, is here to chat about her new children's book Only a Trenza Away!

Nadine is an anti-bias/anti-racist researcher and advocate.  She works with families, organizations, and companies to make anti-bias and anti-racist education a part of everyday learning, living, and loving.  True kindness means getting uncomfortable, and feeling out of your comfort zone, and requires real time, dedication, and sacrifice. 

Listen in as Nadine shares tips and advice for families raising their kids to be kind!  Hear her story, learn from her expertise, and enjoy a behind-the-scenes peek at the making of her children's book!

Find out more about Mighty Kind here: www.mightykindkids.com

Follow Nadine on Instagram @mightykindkids

Start your KindSchooling journey today! Head to www.teamkindhumans.com or follow me on Instagram @katie_doughty!

Transcript

Katie Doughty: 0:05

Everyone, welcome back to the raising Cain humans podcast. I'm your host, Katie Doty. And I'm just getting back from a weekend trip home to go to a celebration of life for a dear family friend. And it was such a good reminder about the importance of relationships and how fostering those relationships in your life is one of the most meaningful things that you can do. And it just made me really stop and think about where I'm spending my time and what's most important. And it also reminded me of a study that was done happiness study over several decades, I think it was like an 80 year or a 90 year study done on happiness. And what these researchers found is they followed different people and families throughout their lives is that people who had strong relationships and connections with other people were happier. And it just reinforces this idea of helping our kids connect with their own community connect with each other, connect with friends and family and their neighborhoods, and how important it is for their own mental health and their own well being as they grow, to have them be connected to their community. And it just fuels my fire of getting more of these service projects and meeting more people in the nonprofit world and charities and organizations that are out doing good and finding ways to connect kids to those people into those organizations. I know for me, raising kids in a world where we are so focused on social media and screens and that those connections are, they're being lost. And I don't, I don't want that to happen. You know, for my own kids and for your kids. And I think we have to make a more concerted effort now more than ever to help our kids make relationships, make friendships, reach out to other people, and get involved in their own communities. And it's important, and I was reminded of that, again, this weekend. And so I wanted to share with you we just finished our first month in team kind humans in the membership and it was so fun. We had time to spend with Christy from Alex's Lemonade Stand. She came in and shared about the foundation and Alex and her life and her mission. And the kids had an opportunity to ask questions about that. And they've been working hard, participating in their million mile challenge. And I'm just so proud of what kids can do. They are so excited to get involved in stuff like this and giving them the opportunity is just it's critical. So we chatted with her. And then Dr. Ari, of a snobby came in and did some science with us and talked about cancer research. And what that looks like for her because she's a cancer research scientist. And then she actually put up some other videos for us to do more science with her. So I think there's a total of four science lessons that have to do with cancer research and being a scientist that is now available in the membership. And kids can go back and watch and participate and do those activities alongside her. And then we finished out with our service project, which one was participating in the Million Mile but also writing thank you notes to the donors of Alex's Lemonade Stand. So we are helping the foundation by writing colorful thank you notes that they can send to their generous donors to say thank you for helping out with Alex's mission. And coming up this month. I'm thrilled to have Gil coming in from Reserva youth Land Trust. Reserve is the first fully funded youth Land Trust, which means they are they it's run by kids, which I just think is so fascinating. He told me the oldest one I believe is 26 the oldest person in that in that organization. And it's a way for kids to get involved and speak out for nature. And one of the coolest things that they have available for kids is called the million letter campaign. And if you write a letter about why you love nature, and you send it to them, they will match your letter with a $3 donation. And that donation goes to, it saves a classroom sized piece of the cloud forest in Ecuador, which I just think is so cool. It's so tangible for kids to see, oh, man, if I write this letter, I save a piece of the cloud forest. It's so directly related. So Joe will be coming in and chatting with us. And we will be learning about conservation and their organization. And then Vicki Conrad will be joining us. She is the author of a voice for the Everglades, which is a picture book biography about Marjory Stoneman Douglas, who spent her whole life advocating for the Everglades. And now there's Everglades National Park because of her. And her picture book is just beautiful and so inspiring. And she's also the author of just like Beverly, which is an adorable picture book about Beverly Cleary as well. So she's coming in to talk to us about her book about murdery. And then the kids will have an opportunity to ask her questions and talk about her book and her writing, which is going to be super fun. So if you're interested, come join us, I'd love to have you. Team kind humans.com, you can sign up for just $1 If you want to come on and hang out with us come to the to the live zoom calls. And if you can't make it live, the recordings will always be available and then they bank. So if you join now us you get everything we've already done, which there's already two full lessons up there with tons of video and PDFs and downloads and challenges and activities. So it's all there for you and I would love to see you there. So come join us. You're in for a treat today with this conversation. I spoke with Nadine Fonseka. And she is from mighty kind. And Nadine is a fantastic researcher and advocate for anti racist anti bias education. And she works with families and companies to help with informed and intentional kindness and raising our kids to be intentionally kind and well educated so that they can love others wholeheartedly, and she has a children's book out called only a transit away, which is just phenomenal. And I know you're going to love to hear the behind the scenes sneak peek at what went into writing that story and all that she has to offer. So without further ado, please welcome Nadine. Nadine, thank you so much for joining me on the raising kind of humans podcast today. I can't wait to dive into all of the amazingness that you are. So welcome. I'm glad you're here.

Unknown: 8:06

Thank you. I appreciate you having me. I'm excited to

Katie Doughty: 8:09

this is gonna be fun. So if you don't mind just starting and introducing yourself. Tell us a little bit about who you are and where you came from and kind of where you're where you're going on this journey.

Nadine Fonseca: 8:21

Oh, gosh, that last question. I'll have to think about okay. As far as intro goes. I'm Nadine Fonseca, I'm the founder of mighty kind kids, and most recently, the author of Only a transit away, which is a children's picture book that just came out last month. I currently am in Austin, Texas. But I was born and raised in the San Francisco Bay Area in California. And so having moved around a little bit, some some culture shock happened, but especially raising little humans, we don't realize what we have as far as the plentiful diversity of the San Francisco Bay area until we moved away and didn't have it. So that's what kind of sparked mighty kind, which is an anti bias anti racist education company for kids and their grownups. So trying to find opportunities to have more organic conversations when there's not necessarily organic matter happening in our communities. And making sure that stays top of mind in those conversations about what it really means to be a kind human beyond smiling and hugging and

Katie Doughty: 9:27

waving. Oh my gosh, beautiful. I think we're soul sisters here because that is very similar to my mission as well. Can you dive in Atlas? I was going to talk about your book first. But now I want to go here to MIT can kids so can you give us like a little bit of a preview or if a parent goes to your website like what is it that they will find and how do you actually help kids have those conversations?

Unknown: 9:52

So on our website, mighty kind kids.com You'll find a couple of things. So The blog is just now starting to bloom, I took about a year and a half, almost two year hiatus, I went back to school and I was doing research and consulting projects for other brands that serve kids and families and educators. And so it's just now kind of reblooming. So the blog will be where a lot of resources sit. And it's not the Nadine show, I don't claim to know everything, I don't want to know everything. I leave that to that those experts who either have research experience or have lived experience. And so you'll see a lot of guests either writing for themselves being interviewed, sharing perspectives. And so you get a really great diverse pool of people and information from them. So that's where the majority of our content now lives. However, originally mighty kind was launched as a magazine like a holding your hands print publication. And we cranked out 64 pages of original art activities, content, writing, interviews, all of that every 11 weeks, for three years. Wow, we were just exhausted as, as a volunteer group of moms would likely get. So we put a pause on that. And this is what it has since morphed into, we noticed that one it wasn't cost efficient for us printing is really expensive paper got crazy expensive during COVID. And since. But then also, I think there was the financial barrier if people can't afford to have this information. And we want as many people as possible to have that access. So that's why it's switched into digital. However, those magazines, both physical and digital, were created with timeless content. So they're still available on the website to purchase, I still thumb through them with my own kids, I know plenty of teachers and parents and caregivers who sit down and read through those sick quickly, just to re spark certain conversations and notice new things. So that exists and is still available. But there'll be new kind of burgeoning content as we move forward.

Katie Doughty: 12:03

I love that. Well, I also noticed on your website, too. So you have the blog, and the magazines, which I'm excited to dive into, because I noticed that they are they aren't continuing, but they're still available, which is amazing. And you also like to speak to is IT companies or teachers or educators, your speaker and give this information out to groups of people? So who do you talk to you? And what's kind of a little bit of, of what you would say to them?

Unknown: 12:31

Yeah, it really depends on where, you know, everyone's in a different part of their journey, right. As far as anti bias, anti racist work goes, so much of that is internal, before we even look to, you know, do anything external. So it really is a matter of where people are at and what support they need. So there are some, you know, large organizations that just need different flavors of guest speakers to offer new perspectives. So you know, for like Latinx Heritage Month, I'll go in and talk to large companies and kind of give my singular perspective of what it's like to be Philippine in the United States, or we're in business or as a woman, business owner, things like that. On the education side of things, I prior to publishing this book, I was still going in and doing, you know, little presentations and assemblies and things like that, talking about culture and appropriation versus appreciation for kids, especially around Halloween time and costumes, how you respect different religious traditions and holidays and things like that. So that's kind of the the kid aspect. But then, most recently, I've noticed for especially moms, women, they, as business owners are trying really hard to incorporate more just education, awareness, respect into their products, into their marketing, you know, messaging, all of that kind of stuff. And I'm finding they're really nervous about being cancelled when they do it wrong, or they make a mistake. And so most recently, I've been able to start working with a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of business owners and leaders who just want to do better. Have more verbiage have more resources, and a little bit more introspection. And so if and when the day comes that they are called in or called out for making a mistake, they're prepared and they can handle it. And they can kind of take that with grace and humility and still press forward. And that's the most important part is that we continue right like we don't just stop. Rest is great. But stopping is not an option. We all have to push forward together.

Katie Doughty: 14:38

Oh, that's beautiful. I love that that's an option for people because I think it's true. I think we all struggle with that. We don't want to say the wrong thing. It's so different now that everything you say is out there for everyone to see and everyone to critique. And it only takes one person to make a comment about it. And then it blows up so that fear is real, that fear is absolute. We realize that you are going to say something wrong or incorrectly and then that's it, you're done. Like, that's how this works in society right now. So do you offer them? Like, is it like one on one coaching? Is it the business will hire you and you'll work for six months? What does that process look like working with someone.

Unknown: 15:19

So far, it has been pretty one on one going in as a consultant. And sometimes it's like an audit. And we'll work together for a month. Other times, it's sensitivity reads for you know, content that'll be coming out, whether it's in print or online. And then soon what will be happening is more of a cohort learning that I'll start offering. And so I think it's important that beyond just the one on one, we we practice making mistakes in front of people in small, safe spaces, we practice being vulnerable, we practice, you know, all of those types of things. So we also get to learn from each other. And I really, that's one of the things that as much as I love to doing the magazine, it was a very one sided conversation. And so I missed that piece. And so coming back into more consulting and, and group coaching and things like that, I get that piece back where I get to learn to I get to, you know, kind of glean insights from other experiences and perspectives. So it's a blend, it really depends on where you're at. And you know, kind of what you're able to invest both time financially, right? And what what you're able to invest in, in this one aspect of of your path. Right, your journey.

Katie Doughty: 16:31

Yeah. So when is that cohort coming?

Unknown: 16:35

This fall, actually, this fall, we'll start we'll start kicking that one off,

Katie Doughty: 16:38

how exciting so people can look out for that. And definitely for that, that's exciting. How cool is that? So tell me more about what is it? Let me think of how to phrase this question. What's like one thing you wish every parent knew and taught their child? Is there like one specific mission that you have that like, if I can make sure parents understand this? We will be okay. I know, that's a big broad question.

Unknown: 17:09

And, you know, like, within the context of, you know, our kind of collective theme and conversation and whatever I think, for me, as a parent, the one thing that I hope I can raise my children to learn be, do you know, what have you is? Oh, gosh, it's like twofold is like one, like, love yourself and love your own boundaries, right? Whatever that looks like, like, be ready for that to morph and evolve and change, and you know, all of those things. But on the other side of that, like I missed has to be uncomfortable at times. You know, like, if everything that you do to, like, help others in the world, is putting a smile on your face and is hunky dory and super happy? Like, you're probably not doing enough or you're not doing it right, right? Like, is it what they actually need? Because it should be an element of discomfort, sacrifice, kind of setting oneself aside, you know, so So Can all of those things, be fun and happy? And of course, like, and you should feel good about the things that you do. But I think feeling uncomfortable is a hard thing to teach kids because he wants to teach them to listen to their gut and stranger danger, you know, like all of these things. So really helping them calibrate what is a healthy level of discomfort, I think and the only way to do that is through like repetition and modeling and presenting those opportunities. Because this is a tricky one. It's a tricky one to help celebrate that.

Katie Doughty: 18:42

Yes, it is. And I think about that with my own kids and trying to navigate what's an appropriate amount to expose them to and talk about in and help out with and what is not for kids in there's a fine line there with what's out there in the world and kind of protecting their innocence for a little bit longer. But I read that book, deep kindness by Houston craft, I'm not sure if you're familiar with that. But he it's a really, really great book. But he talks about kindness is uncomfortable. And in kindness is a journey you will be on for the rest of your life. Like you don't just achieve and you make it to the end. But it's something that you have to work through and put yourself in situations that are uncomfortable and don't feel that happy, joyful feeling that you think of sometimes when you think of the word kindness, and that's a hard concept to grasp I think because there is this stigma of kindness that it's this kind of rainbows and confetti and you know, it was that close sprinkle it like confetti, right? And he debunks that so quickly in his book and for me coming in when I had first started reading and I was like, wait, no, I love those posters. And I have shirts and like that's, that's what I have, but it really makes you realize and understand and kindness is uncomfortable. And that's okay. That is something that we are working on. And something we need to keep talking about and bringing forth with our kids. So do you have any recommendations for parents then, like, have an example of getting a little uncomfortable with their kid, or giving them opportunities like that.

Unknown: 20:22

So there's, there are a couple of things. One, I would say, personally, I have found that kids lit is incredibly helpful in this arena, right. And so whether that's kind of more traditional, you know, picture books, and chapter books and things like that, and just making sure that we're incorporating as many diverse perspectives as possible, but also making sure we're reading alongside them, especially as they get older, right? We're not always pre reading every chapter book or you know, so making sure that we're reading alongside them as much as we possibly can. So that whether they come to us with, with questions or we come to them, we make sure that they're understanding things, or at least contemplating things, I don't think we need to have all of the answers. And I think it's a really healthy thing for caregivers to not have answers. Because it teaches kids that you're not going to check that box, right? Like you're always going to be learning, you're always going to need some more perspectives and more contexts and more information. So it's good to model that. But also, aside from kind of more traditional kids books, kids co writes a ton of or publishes a ton of books called, you know, a kid's book about X, right? A kid's book about hunger, a kid's book about racism, a kid's book about white supremacy, right. And I think those are really great, really digestible, very tangible concepts, very simple. But also very informative. I mean, you could, you could probably pull apart one of those books for a month, and have multiple conversations, bring in multiple perspectives. Because if we're waiting for organic opportunities, we're waiting a long time those kids are gonna be grown and gone before you've had all the conversations that you hoped you would have had, you know, along their childhood. So I think having those building those little scaffoldings in to, you know, parenting is, is healthy trick, right to make sure that those those conversations are happening.

Katie Doughty: 22:25

Yes, I love that you're brought up children's lit because I am very passionate about kids books, because I think they do lend themselves to having those conversations that you probably wouldn't be having organically all the time. And so every book gives an opportunity to talk about a different scenarios that they might encounter sometime in their life, maybe not right now. But they can look back and connect with those characters. And remember some of the things they talked about moving forward with whatever situation arises. So I'm curious, then, what sparked you to write a book because your first book is out only a transit away? Where did that passion come from? And then when did you decide I have to write this?

Unknown: 23:12

My story's a little different from others who are also traditionally published, I actually had consulted for the publisher for a couple of years. And I never aspired to be an author, I was not writing a book. But eventually, we were creating opportunities for them to usher in more diverse authors. And so really looking at the way they edited, really looking at the way they promoted opportunities, how they went through manuscripts, and just kind of breaking down barriers that, you know, queer bipoc People might might be facing in their process without them realizing. And so, kind of on the on the tail end of that, it was, Well, hey, Nadine, would you like to write a book? And immediately my guts, like, no, like, I'm not a writer. Not even close, I can talk all day long. But if you tell me put something on paper, I'm gonna stare at a blank page for like 10 years. And so, you know, I thought about it. And there was a sense of responsibility, honestly, there was a sense of responsibility for for little brown girls and boys to see themselves represented better and in children's books. And so that's kind of what what turned my you know, ahead a little into the opportunity. And then I just had to make sure they had really good editors tell stories, but as long as you can edit them so that they're not, you know, incoherent that'd be great. Partnering that way, which saved me years of you know, submitting manuscripts and rejections and you know, all the things that most writers have to face like those are really real challenges. So I was super grateful for the opportunity a weighty sense of responsibility. but then ultimately, my first manuscript was rejected, which is a funky thing when you feel like you're being commissioned to write something. Wow. Yeah, it was, they rejected it. And they're, you know, after working on it for a year, and they're like, you know, it's just, we just can't, we can't move this forward, I think it was a little, a little too radical. That's okay, I'm gonna hold that in a drawer for a little bit and pull it out and dust it off and figure out where a better spot might be for that one. But the next one, the next manuscript that we worked on was only a transit away, and that is loosely based on my childhood, and my dad braiding my hair when I was little girls. And translate means braid in Spanish. And that one, I think, pull their heartstrings enough where they're like, Okay, this, this one's gotta move forward. That's, that's how that kind of came full circle.

Katie Doughty: 25:51

It's very sweet. And I would be curious to know a little bit more about how it is loosely based, I want to hear more about your dad and some of the things maybe did he take you on some adventures? Was he pretty creative, and imaginative? Or was that more of like, the part of him braiding your hair was true, but then the rest is like, the creative part from you.

Unknown: 26:14

Ah, that's, that's mostly what it was, if, you know, I'm being completely honest, like braiding was not my favorite. As a little girl, I had this long, you know, Latina hair, that it was very much utilitarian to braid hair, it was out of tradition, it was far more just just maintenance, to make sure that, you know, the next morning, it wasn't going to be just this big old rat's nest. And so it was something that was routine. It was something you know, but I, but I do remember fondly. I have one older sister, I do remember fondly that I had that time individually with my dad. And that it was just my time whether we talked whether we didn't whether I was crying, because it was my hair was hurting, or like any of that it was still this moment in time where it was just him and I, and we had other you know, opportunities as I got older, and we bonded over different things, you know, et cetera. But as a young girl, my sister and I were only 18 months apart, maybe 20 months apart. And so we were very much treated like twins growing up. And so we were kind of at the hip and matching outfits and matching hairstyle, you know, all that kind of stuff. So to have that just moment of individuality, right? Like just that moment of individual attention. kind of stuck with me. And so from there, it was like, Okay, how do I take this and turn it into something more, better or worse, I don't know. But like, just something more. And for me, as a parent, I try and I'm not perfect, and I certainly can improve. But I try and take those dull moments that are otherwise just routine, or utilitarian or whatever. And like, judge them up, right? Like, take the chance to, you know, have some fun, or be silly or have a deeper conversation, even if it's just overdriving the dishes or you know, like whatever it might be. And so trying to model that a little bit in the book is like, what, what normally is like routine, or, you know, kind of not fun, or you know, whatever it is, can we take those opportunities to bond with our children a little bit more deeply? And that was the

Katie Doughty: 28:24

hope. Oh, well, you did a beautiful job. Because I just first of all, the story is gorgeous. And I love the idea of that one on one time with dad, right? Because kind of stereotypical dad isn't usually the one that will be braiding hair. And so I love that that's part of like, look what Dad can do, and this time that I get to spend with him. And it's very obvious in the book when when dad doesn't come home from work. How devastated she is, she missed that time with him. So it wasn't the act of braiding hair. It was the act of being with her dad. And I just love that part of the story. And then can you speak a little bit about to what's braided in to her hair and the meaning behind that because I got goosebumps when I read that part. And I just wanted to hear your story of how you created that.

Unknown: 29:17

The braid at least traditionally, what we were braided have three sections or three parts. And I I feel like it can be open to interpretation. It can be you know, different cultures have have different meanings behind braids. And there wasn't necessarily a hard and fast explanation for why we braided the way we did. And I thought it means something to me. What What should it mean? What can it mean? How can we open this up to be something was just relatable, right and also empowering. And so looking at those three sections of braids, that's where my you know, sense of radicalizing kindness kind of came into play. And so the three sections I have represented or one for kids to love themselves as they are. And as they hope to be those things, even as an adult, as a woman, especially as a mom wearing different hats, and whatever, you always think you're falling short, or I thought I'd be better at this, or I'd accomplish this in my career or feel like I'm failing as a parent, right? Like all those things. But it's also, it's important to remember that we can love who you are, and also want to be better those things can happen simultaneously. It's not one or the other. And so I wanted kids to hear that from an early age. The second section of the braid was others who will need our love. And that talks a lot about, you know, kind of the kindness, right, the advocacy, the looking outside of ourselves, and making sure that we are being mindful of what's around us and having that sense of community. And, and then the third section is the people that love us, right, our family, our friends, our mentors, you know, our ancestors, people who have put in the time, the work the sacrifice, to do what they can to to help us along. So those are the three sections of the brain. And I think it's, I wanted it to be something that was anchored to her right, like her hair is not going anywhere. But then also like, my boys, they have short hair, they've never braided their hair. And so they we had a school tradition for a little while where we'd make baby braided bracelets. So they could still carry a braid with them right and have that just sense of security and sense of confidence and be emboldened by that.

Katie Doughty: 31:38

And kids love that kind of stuff. And they are they're so smart, they can pick up on that kind of stuff. So easily, right and reading this story to kids, that part of loving who you are, but but also loving who you will be. I mean that I know that was written for a child, but it hit me at my core because it's true. As a mom, as a woman, as an entrepreneur, I keep thinking, I need to do this, or I will get here I'm trying to get here. And this is what I want to do. When really right now, like things are great. And I'm doing great. And I need to remind myself that this is where it's at. And I need to love this moment as well. So I love that that was part of the lesson in this in this book. And then keeping those in mind who will need you, I think is such a huge mission to, to give to our kids, right like for our parents who have the ability to show, we have to look out for others, that is a main part of the fabric of who we are, we have to look out for others. And so having that like you only got three to choose from, and you pick really good ones. So I loved that. And then also holding close, who loves us dearly, and who will be there, whether they're here in spirit in physical form. They love you. And so I just love those three different ones. And I did notice in the back of the book, you talked about your tradition of braiding bracelets. So did you tell this story to your kids before you wrote it as a children's book? Or how did that come up in your family? As far as the bracelets?

Unknown: 33:19

That's a good question. So you know, this story wasn't even on my mind, right until I got my first manuscript rejected. I'm like, Okay, back to the drawing board. But I think subconsciously, like braids have always been something near and dear to my heart. And it just manifests in different ways at different times, and ultimately ended up in this story. But when we made those bracelets, it was we had just moved out of state we knew nobody, I just had a baby and I was struggling a bit with postpartum and where we had normally homeschooled it was the first year I was sending my older kids to public school. And so that for me, was them taking part of me with them, right and then feeling like they weren't alone that they were connected. And just an easy visual reference of like, Hey, we're still you know, we're still connected. We're still intertwined, whether we're physically together or not. And so I guess it's something that's just evolved over time, but it's it's a sentiment that I guess has just grown since I was a little kid. Yeah,

Katie Doughty: 34:25

it's so sweet. It reminds me of the book, the kissing hand. If you've read that, where she kisses the hand, and then they have to hold on to it and we I remember doing that with my daughter in kindergarten because she was so nervous to go to school but then it helps right like they it's that reminder of okay, I will see them again after school. I can be brave right now and then I will get that hug at the end of the day. So that physical that visual reminder that we are still here we are connected. Even though I'm not sitting right next to you. I'm still with you. In USA, if you were okay, so I love that you do that with your kids. And I was trying to brainstorm to like, what a cool way? Is there a way that we can have kids make bracelets for another community or another group of people that might need a reminder that people are here looking out for them? You know, like, how can we entwine this into some kind of project for kids, because who doesn't love to make bracelets, that would be really fun. And just,

Unknown: 35:27

you know, like, a twist on friendship bracelets, like, you know, to remind people that you are, you know, like, a lot of kids, especially if you're like, I don't have good friends, or, you know, the friends I thought I had didn't shape up the way I thought they would, or this particular situation changed our friendship. And so just, I think as a, as kind of a banner right to remind kids like, Hey, if you see me with this bracelet, you know, you have a friend in me. And, and kind of creating that that message or symbolism or whatever it is, because as much as we want to gift things. I think it's far more about the intent, right than the actual gift. And so making sure that the messaging is clear of like, I want to give this to you, not because I want you to fancy dresses, but because I want you to see that you have a friend in me like whenever you need me.

Katie Doughty: 36:11

Yeah, the symbolism behind it. I like what you just said to about. It's not necessarily about the gift. It's about the intent behind it. Because I've done some projects with my kids where, you know, it didn't turn out the way that I thought it was going to turn out. And I thought we were going to be able to give bigger, or donate more money or have more to give. But so I'll give you an example. We did piggy banks, we made paper mache piggy banks, and we were raising money for childhood cancer research. And we set it out. They chose their gymnastics location. So they put it up there. And it was there for like a week. And we went to go pick it up, and they're all excited. And we go and we dump out the money. And there's like$4 in there. And I was disappointed, right? Because I don't know, you just have this expectation. But the kids were thrilled, like they could not believe that there were $4 in that piggy bank, and they got to donate that. And that was the moment I thought, oh my gosh, it's not about the money. It's the fact that they know they did something to help someone else. And so I love what you're saying, it doesn't have to be this big, grand gesture, it can be something so simple, just saying, I will be your friend, I am here for you. And I love that only consider

Unknown: 37:28

as a mom, that you brought awareness to something far deeper than they probably would have ever experienced at that age, right? They they sacrifice time and resources and invested in doing something for a kid they probably have never met before or will never meet. And so even just those practices, you know, when they look at a piggy bank, as they get older, like they're going to have a connection there or you know, and so I think we do as adults especially get caught up in the results of things when we forget that the results are far more transcendent when when investing in children and the way that they think and learn and connect than it is about you know, how much money we raised or how many bracelets we made or you know, whatever it is

Katie Doughty: 38:07

exactly. And that's such a good reminder, because they're not holding on to that, right. It's the adults that told it that me it me I'm holding on to it. And I've since let that go for sure. Because now I have seen and watched them learn and grow in this process of trying to help other people that I know the benefits are not monetary. They are not tangible you they're there in their hearts. And that's the whole point. Yeah. Oh, my goodness, yes. Well, is there anything else you can think of that? Maybe you really want to put out in the world for kids like or any other opportunities you can think of for parents to help get their kids involved in some of these conversations? I know you said kid lit. But is there anything else coming down that you are working on or anything other books coming along? That might be Do you have one more book

Unknown: 39:02

that's in the works? It'll be a while it'll be out next fall, if all goes well, which is never guaranteed, but one can hope? I think for me, I really do think that the best thing that any parent or caregiver or anyone who mentors, children can do is invest in themselves, you know, do the work themselves. The more that you're engrossed in the twisty feelings, the hard history, the realities of you know, political climates and you know, just just the things that really cause members of our communities to struggle. The more you're going to have those organic conversations, because it's going to be front of mind you're going to be hyper aware of how things are transcend you know, transpiring in your own community. And so it really is a matter of you doing the work as the adult It's because, you know, like, my kids have asked, you know, well, when can I start a business? When can I, you know, do these things. And I'm like, Well, when you can get a license, you can get a job when you have your own car, you know, because they're along for the ride with me wherever I go. And so it's the same with anti bias, anti racist work, it's the same with, you know, social emotional learning, unpacking childhood traumas, right, all of those things as we do the work as adults, like those kids are along for the ride, whether they like it or not. And so they are second hand recipients of the work that we invest in. So I would say, as adults, I wish there was a cheat sheet, I wish there was, you know, a quick Monopoly game where we check all the boxes and do all the transactions and we you know, all sudden, or have no biases, and no, you know, racist thoughts, which would be lovely. But the reality is, you know, like you said, from the beginning, there is no checking this box, it's, it's a journey. And so as much as we can invest in that journey ourselves, the kids get to reap the benefits of that just as much, if not more so, because they get to see our mistakes, too. And as long as we're transparent and can humble ourselves as often as we can, we're never going to be perfect. They, they will definitely have those conversations more fluidly, more often, and more genuinely with you, because they see that you're ready for that. I think our kids try and protect us more than we realize. And so if we can show them that we're ready to have hard conversations, we can show them that we're okay making mistakes, then we can handle them with some degree of grace. They'll be ready to purchase with things too, that might feel twisty to them.

Katie Doughty: 41:47

Yeah, I think that's the perfect answer. Kids are always watching. They are always watching. Even when you don't think they are good. They will come back and tell me something later. I'm like, yep, you saw that. Cool. So it's something to keep in mind. And I think to your right, giving them that opportunity at a younger age, they'll be more equipped. And I think having the example that you are trying to understand people and you are trying to be better, and you are trying like just the fact that you're trying, right, you're showing that you are keeping an open mind about different types of people and that it's okay to make a mistake. And I didn't get that right. But I'm going to learn about it and try harder next time. What a valuable thing that you can give to your kids. Do you have any book recommendations for adults who do want to take more time to learn and grow and change? Yes, so

Unknown: 42:45

Dr. Abram X kendi has some wonderful books, how to be an anti racist how to raise an anti racist. I'm trying to think Britney Hawthorne Britt Hawthorne also has a really great one that's raising anti racist children. I think those are they they even have workbooks for kids, probably on the older side of children like tweens and teens. But it wouldn't be a bad thing like me. And white supremacy also has a workbook to kind of like dive in, I think we can run the risk of you know, shelf help, right, we read a book and stick in the shelf, never think of it again. And so the ones that are accompanied by workbooks or journal prompts or things like that, that really cause you to pause and have those moments of self reflection are probably most beneficial, at least to start with to start that that practice. There's also a great book that's called how to do the work. That's a lot about kind of unpacking our own traumas and childhoods. And that gets intertwined with with some other work as well. So those those would be my recommendations.

Katie Doughty: 43:56

Oh, those are great, thank you. I would love something to work alongside my kid, you know, with with something like a journal prompt that you can both answer at the same time. And you said maybe tweens and teens, but it'd be cool to have an opportunity to you know, here's the here's the question or the prompt, you go answer I'll go answer and let's talk about it. Because the work, like we talked about is never done. So I'm still working, they're working. They're just getting started on their work. But I would love something like that. So if you find anything or have a good recommendation, I would be thrilled to know

Unknown: 44:35

actually, in each edition of mighty kind magazine, you'll find prompts like that for both parents and kids. And some of them I think are really interesting. The the new book that I'm working on has a lot to do with social emotional learning. And I had an amazing conversation with an art therapist, talking about how interacting with creativity creating something as a reflection of However kids are perceiving their worlds is a really great conversation starter. So whether it's drawing like draw me a safe place like that, you know, like, draw me, you know, those types of things, what makes you feel warm inside draw me a picture of that. Because if we leave those things open ended and lead with an emotion lead with lead with a connection, like the rest trickles down, and we can open up those conversations. But there was a really interesting kind of warning or word of caution in there from her, where she says, Don't overthink it, it is a snapshot of a moment in time. Like, if when you say, you know, what makes you sad, right. And they draw this like thunderstorm and their dog is in a puddle. You know, like all of these things like, it could have just been Thursday morning, they were bummed that they stepped in a puddle, right, it doesn't mean they're afraid their dogs gonna die. And the world's coming down on that, you know, like, it is a snapshot of a moment in time. And I think even in our journeys, as we learn and grow, to remember that of our feelings, some of them are going to arc for the rest of our lives. Like for better for worse, that's just how human nature is going to be. The there are other times as we do hard things or unpack like difficult histories or conversations or interactions. Like we can take those feelings and remember that they were a reflection of a moment in time and just slough them like a snake skin, like that served me in that moment I learned, I can do better. I don't have to hold on to the guilt, the anger, the bitterness, those types of things, that that even our emotions, as adults are a reflection of a moment in time that maybe has a deep history and lots of things can bubble up. But we have permission to let those things go so that we can move forward, we can you know, push past them. Wow,

Katie Doughty: 46:50

that was really powerful. And a really great piece of advice. What a great reminder, it's so true. As a mom, I will obviously will always read into what my kids are saying or what they drew, why did you draw that? What does that mean? Like? What what are what should I be worried? Am I doing something wrong? Am I going in the wrong direction here? And then you're on your right holding on to your own guilt? Like I made a mistake? Oh, my gosh, I can't let it go. Like, how do I get through this? It's something that I hold on to you. But you're right. Being able to let that go learn from it. Let it go. And move on is such a wonderful thing to model for our kids and obviously for ourselves. Definitely. And I love that you're like, oh, wait, hold on, I have something for you just get the mighty kind magazine, because I already invented.

Unknown: 47:38

So privileged for that area. And it's good to know that those resources are unwanted. And we'll I'll find a way. Yeah, yeah. Now, doing those exercises are helpful. Whether you pick up the magazine or not just sitting down and CO creating art can be a really powerful opportunity for that.

Katie Doughty: 47:56

I like that and kids connect to art, that's something that they understand. And then they can do you hand and mccrane. And they're not gonna be like glue to where you do with them, they will go. And so that's a really great way to kind of dive and get a little sneak peek into their brain and their mind and what's going on inside in a safe way that they feel. Oh, this is familiar. I got this. Yeah, that's really cool. So tell us where can we find all the things? Where should we follow you? What websites should we be looking at, tell us all the things.

Unknown: 48:26

So the simplest would be the website which is mighty kind kids.com. So kids is plural. That's also all of my social handles. So Instagram, Twitter, threads, hey, all that it's all going to be at mighty kind kids. And then only a trends away you can find wherever books are sold. So any of your favorite bookstores bookshop.org is a great spot to support small small independent own bookstores and so that's that's a great spot. But if you gotta go with two day shipping, Amazon's got it to you.

Katie Doughty: 49:01

And it comes quickly. I love shopping local, I love our local bookstore and so I try to go there as much as possible because I just like the smell of it. I like to walk in and just that feel of the books and it's my favorite place to just browse

Unknown: 49:16

the whole vibe. No matter what store you walk into. It's a whole vibe. I love it too.

Katie Doughty: 49:21

Is I always have cute little knickknacks and gifts and I don't know it's just a fun experience. It's better than getting it on your front door. Only in terms of a highly recommend go out and buy it. It's fantastic. It needs to be on your bookshelf also it looks really pretty. The illustrations are gorgeous. So having it out on your table or out on your shelf is is beautiful. It reminds me of the colors. They can't see this but in your background. Yeah, your pictures I feel like those colors are very similar to what was used in the art but well done. You are doing such a beautiful, amazing things in this world and I am excited I have to keep following you and keep learning from you. I'm gonna go check out your blog and I will be forwarding all of your information to everyone I know because it's just so important. It's just so important and I am grateful that you are putting in the work to make this world a better place. So, thank you. Thank you for chatting with me today. Absolutely. Thanks

Unknown: 50:20

for having me. Thanks for all you do. It's a collective bandwidth for sure. So, thanks for pushing it forward as well.