Sacred Scars: Transforming Pain into Strength with Dr. Michelle Bengtson

Can your past scars become your greatest strengths? Join us as we explore this transformative concept with Dr. Michelle Bengtson, a board-certified clinical neuropsychologist, who offers profound insights from her latest book, Sacred Scars: Resting in God's Promise That Your Past is Not Wasted. Dr. Michelle shares her personal battles with physical pain and depression, revealing how shame can imprison us and how our scars can testify to God's transformative work in our lives. Her stories, backed by biblical references and other inspiring experiences, remind us that our painful pasts don't disqualify us from God's love and purpose.

In this episode, we delve into the importance of navigating personal struggles and embracing vulnerability and authenticity in both personal and professional spheres. Dr. Michelle discusses how sharing our pain with trusted individuals can combat isolation and shame, turning potential setbacks into powerful tools for connection and healing. We challenge the lie of perfection and offer practical strategies for seeking support during tough times, emphasizing that embracing our true selves fosters genuine relationships.

Reflecting on her own experiences, including stepping away from her private practice, Dr. Michelle underscores the necessity of mental and emotional rest. She shares activities that bring peace and connection with God, such as nature walks and quality time with loved ones, highlighting how these moments of stillness and trust in God's timing prepare us for future tasks. Our discussion illustrates how pain and past struggles can become powerful testimonies of redemption and restoration, showing that taking a step back from a busy professional life to rest and trust in God is essential for our well-being. Tune in to discover how your scars can become a testament to God's transformative power and how embracing your true self can lead to genuine connections and healing.

Purchase Dr. Michelle's new book release - Sacred Scars: Resting in God's Promise That Your Past is Not Wasted

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:16

Hello and welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast. I'm your host, kristen Kurtz, and I'm also the founder of New Wings Coaching, where I empower and unlock women to soar in their calling and roar with their voices. If you're curious to learn more about how coaching can help you unlock your potential, be sure to explore the show notes for ways to connect with me further. Get ready to dive in as we uncover empowering keys and insights in this episode. So tune in and let's unlock hope together. Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast. I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host.

Speaker 1: 0:50

I pray this episode is like a holy IV of hope for your soul. Please help me welcome my friend, dr Michelle Bankson, to the show. I am so excited to have her back. This is her second time with us. She was actually one of my first guests back in May of last year. I got this podcast started in March, so I was so excited to hear that she wanted to come back and actually today is a birthday. She has a new book that was just birthed and it is called Sacred Scars. Resting in God's Promise that your Past is Not Wasted. So, michelle, if those who didn't hear your last episode, you know, didn't tune in, I would love for you to just share a little bit about yourself and a little bit about the path that God has you on this current season.

Speaker 2: 1:35

Thank you for having me back, kristen. Yeah, I am a board certified clinical neuropsychologist, so I have the honor and joy of walking patients through any kind of brain dysfunction from ADHD to learning disabilities, depression or anxiety, stroke, dementia, traumatic brain injury and when I see them, we talk about their story and we talk about what's happened to them and what we can do to get them fully functioning, but honestly, and what we can do to get them fully functioning, but honestly. My greatest joy is to be wife to my husband, scott, for 35 years, and I'm a mom to two young adult boys who are living their best life. In my spare time, I write books and I speak and I host a podcast.

Speaker 1: 2:19

What is the name of your podcast?

Speaker 2: 2:21

Your Hope Build Perspective with Dr Michelle Bankson.

Speaker 1: 2:26

So everybody go check out her podcast, and we were just talking about this before we got started. How long have you been podcasting?

Speaker 2: 2:32

Five and a half years, every week for five and a half years, and right now we're in the middle of a special series that's called the Sacred Scar Story Series, and in this series we're talking to real people who have experienced real hurts and then have seen real transformation in their lives where God has brought beauty for their ashes.

Speaker 1: 2:52

Wow, and this is part kind of pairing with your book as well, right? So how did this book come to be? I'm imagining that part of this involves some of your story, is that right?

Speaker 2: 3:06

It does. It involves quite a bit of my story, some of the stories from the Bible, as well as stories of people that I have met along my journey. The idea for the book actually came when I was at a women's retreat, probably five or eight years ago.

Speaker 2: 3:22

And I remember listening to all the hurts in the room and I remember hearing the shame, the guilt, the regret, the fear, the isolation that came as a result of the pain that they had experienced. And you know, we experience all different types of pain physical, emotional, mental, relational, spiritual, grief and loss. And sometimes the pain comes at the hands or words of another, sometimes we engage in behaviors that contribute to our pain and sometimes there's no obvious reason like a tragic medical diagnosis, reason like a tragic medical diagnosis. But what I have seen is that when we're hurting so desperately, that's when the enemy comes in and tries to convince us that our painful past disqualifies us from God's love, his mercy, his compassion, his forgiveness or even serving His kingdom. And that's just a lie straight from the pit of hell.

Speaker 2: 4:27

I was at that women's retreat. The Lord really highlighted just the term sacred scars and it's been a process over the last five years or so where I realized ah, he wants me to talk about the difference between our painful wounds, which hurts, versus our scars. Our scars are a testimony of the healing that's been done. When we have the wound, it hurts, it gets infected or it's abraded or it's bruised and that's painful, but when we receive healing, our sacred scars no longer hurt the way the wounds did, and so our scars reflect the healing.

Speaker 1: 5:10

That's been done and that shame, that shame is is so. It overtakes so many women to keep them from, you know, stepping into whatever God has for them. It keeps them caged, it keeps them imprisoned.

Speaker 2: 5:41

Have you experienced anything like that even in your own walk? Significant shame. Yeah, the thing about shame is that it comes from the enemy of our school. It started in the garden of eden. Here's how our enemy doesn't play fair. He will tempt us to do something like with eve, tempted her to eat of the fruit and then she did, and then he shamed her. That's why they then had to put on fig leaves, because they were embarrassed and ashamed. And I've experienced that too.

Speaker 2: 6:10

When I was three, I experienced a life-threatening illness which resulted in significant physical deformity in my right leg and foot, and so my right leg looks much like an artificial leg it's a peg leg and my right foot is half the size of my left foot and looks like the feet of the Asian women whose feet have been bound so that they wouldn't grow. And I was embarrassed by that. And it started in childhood when I was picked on on the playground. You know kids can be really cruel. When I was picked on on the playground, you know kids can be really cruel and I didn't know I was different from any of my peers until the playground setting, when they started teasing and taunting and bullying me. But many of us carry invisible scars, and I have as well.

Speaker 2: 6:58

I went through a significant bout of major depression after I became a doctor, helping people with conditions like depression, and I had somehow thought that, being the doctor and having all the knowledge and all of the training and all the education and all the alphabet soup after my name, I thought that that would somehow insulate me from ever becoming depressed. And it didn't, and neither did being a Christian, because Christians do get depressed. Well, the depression was severe, but the incredible thing about that is, when the depression hit, I was going through a major health crisis. I was on medically induced bedrest for five months, I underwent two emergency surgeries, I was kept alive on IV, hydration and nutrition and I dwindled from 113 pounds down to a skeletal 74.

Speaker 1: 7:51

And it was such a horrific experience.

Speaker 2: 7:53

That that's when depression got its foot into my life, and I remember crying out to God and saying God, this is going to be my life, like I'm not sure I want to go on living. But I also said to God I don't want to go through this like I don't like this, but if I have to go through it, please bring something good from it. And when doctors finally released me to start back at my private practice on a very, very part-time meaning a patient a day, three days a week when they released me to go back to that first patient, I cried all the way to the office. I didn't feel ready, I was tired, I didn't have the strength and I just I didn't even want to leave my cocoon with God because what had started as what felt like forced rest ended up being such a beautiful time getting to know God better.

Speaker 2: 8:51

Well, I went in that day and when my staff brought my patient back, I asked her what brought you into my office today and how can I help you? And she just started to sob. I gave her space to grieve, to experience the pain, and then, slowly, she revealed she had also been through a very medically complex situation. She showed me her arms, which were bruised and battered from her wrist to her shoulder, and she said honestly, I'm so depressed I'm not sure I want to go on living. In that moment I sensed God whispering to my heart show her, kristen. I don't know if you've ever argued with God, but in that moment in my head I was arguing with God. I was like you've got to be kidding. Like mental health, we're trained to be a blank slate for our patients, so that you know they don't. They don't hear us projecting our life and our beliefs onto them. But he very clearly said show her and.

Speaker 1: 9:50

I was like are you sure?

Speaker 2: 9:51

And then I sensed him say well, you don't have to, but if you don't, I'll find someone else. I was like, yes, sir. So I rolled my long sleeves from where I had detached my home IV that morning to go to the office. I showed her my bruised and battered arms, from my wrist to my shoulder, and I looked at her and I said it is no coincidence that you are in my office today and I want you to know that you have been seen, you are loved, there is a purpose and a plan for your life, and the fact that you are still breathing tells me that there is still purpose for you. She took a few seconds and tears started again to stream down her cheeks and she said thank you, thank you for sharing out of your pain, to help me in my pain and to show me that if you could get through such a difficult situation, I can too.

Speaker 2: 10:48

And, kristen, that is probably the most pronounced example of what I refer to as a sacred scar, because I felt so wounded, both physically ill and then emotionally going through depression, and I just thought in my mind. I thought well, this is going to disqualify me from being able to help people in the future, like if my referral sources know that I struggled with depression, they're going to think you don't know how to help my patients. And if my patients knew that I struggled with depression, why would they believe that I would know how to help them? But those were lies of the enemy, because what God was showing me is well, now that you've walked this journey, michelle, you can help people more because you understand it, because you've been, and that's an example of God taking my wound and producing a beautiful, sacred scar that serves a redemptive purpose.

Speaker 1: 11:41

Wow, and even you know from that time how many years ago was that?

Speaker 2: 11:46

It was over a decade ago, okay.

Speaker 1: 11:49

So you had that pivotal day that really shifted your practice right, yes. What did that look like just subsequently, months following? Did you find that even gave you strength? I can imagine that would have given you strength, obviously, to keep going. But you know the dread of that day, kind of what you said, walking in how?

Speaker 2: 12:12

did you feel? It gave me courage. It gave me so much more compassion and empathy and it gave me a sense of the necessity to allow people to be vulnerable in their pain, to not rush through the process but to let them know they're not alone in the process, because that's what shame does. Shame causes us to isolate and God did not create us to do this life alone. That's why he gave Adam a partner. That's why Jesus had the disciples. So it's helped me to show people you don't have to do this painful journey alone. You don't necessarily want to share your story with everybody, right. Share your story with everybody right. Certainly find a few trusted people, a counselor, a mentor, a pastor, a dear friend who will speak truth in love. Because when we hold on to those secrets in the dark, they feel weighty and they let us continue to live in shame. But hope shines brightest in the dark and when we will bring those secrets out into the truth of God's light, it no longer holds the same weight, because then the enemy has been defeated.

Speaker 1: 13:35

Amen. So can I ask you know the thought process of you know, thinking that you know people would be like, oh, she can't, she can't do this now because she's struggling. Whether it be like, I don't know, would you say like the board of maybe where you were working or what have you? Was there any like repercussions in that and the fact that you had to walk through something like this? Did anybody ever say, oh, you can't do this, you can't do this because you're struggling with this?

Speaker 2: 14:07

Zero repercussions.

Speaker 2: 14:09

I just wanted to highlight that it was the opposite. Then I had colleagues referring people to me because they knew that I had gotten through it and I could speak from a place of knowing. Then I ended up having more readers for my book. Hope Prevails Insights from a Doctor's Personal Journey Through Depression. I was supposed to be writing that book back when I became so ill and I had to shelve it for a while. And let me tell you, kristen, it's a better book now because had I written it before, I'd gone through the valley of depression. It would have been a very sterile clinical book. But because I went through it, now people who read it, people who leave reviews on Amazon, say, oh my gosh, it's like she's reading my mail, because she can understand. So there was zero of those negative repercussions and that just highlights what a lie it was from the enemy.

Speaker 1: 15:07

Yes, yes, I really wanted. I had a feeling that that would be your answer, but I really want somebody who's listening today to hear that you know I'm a life coach. I've gone through many things myself and that was definitely a lie several years ago that you know you can't do this. You're going through stuff too and I'm like well, we all do Be quiet, you're under my feet, enemy.

Speaker 2: 15:37

You and I can't relate to perfect people, right, because we've gone through stuff. Well, the truth is, there is no perfect person other than Jesus. But I can't relate to people who put on that persona yeah, even even now, on my social media. You know, I've gone through some health trials and I've gone through some significant chronic pain and what I have found is that people relate to that. They don't relate to this. I've got it all together and I never struggle. In fact, a friend of mine reached out to me several years ago and said Michelle, you know when you, when you're hurting that bad and you just think I don't know how I'm going to make it the next five minutes? He said you need to put up a picture of a hard hat.

Speaker 2: 16:24

And I was like excuse me, no, like a hard hat, like a construction worker. And when you post a picture of a hard hat, that tells those of us who love you and follow you that we need to help you build that prayer wall of faith. And so that has become my thing, and it does. Let people know life's not always rosy In this world. You will experience trials, suffering pain, but take heart because Jesus has overcome the world. But what it does is it lets other people know.

Speaker 2: 17:00

No, she's not perfect. She goes through struggles like I do, and I can be a blessing to her by praying for her when I see that hard hat and for other people you may not get a hard hat, it might be just agreeing with a handful of friends hey, when I send SOS in a text or I send 911 in a text, it means I need you to pray right now. You'll be surprised at what a blessing it is for you because it strengthens you when you don't feel like you can do it anymore, but it blesses those to have the opportunity to pray for you.

Speaker 1: 17:38

Absolutely. Yeah. I actually was on a little bit of a journey earlier this year with realizing, you know, for you and for me, like the work that we do um, I believe for you as well like we are helping the body, like we're bodybuilders that's what I was hearing the other day like you're a bodybuilder, I'm, like I am, yeah, we help rebuild the body, like we help to build the body up. Right, and wouldn't the enemy just love for us to be knocked off and quieted and, you know, just sitting on the sidelines. But we need others who, I like to say, remind us of our. But God said we have way too many people out there that are, you know, saying, well, but what if? But what if? But what if?

Speaker 2: 18:29

no-transcript. Yeah, you know, I think the thing is is that we don't have to have a plan B if we are walking with the Lord and asking him for wisdom.

Speaker 1: 18:43

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:45

That's the thing is when we can look to the world and we're going to be deceived. But if we look at God and we ask him for direction and wisdom, he promises he will lavish it upon us.

Speaker 1: 18:58

Yes, yeah. Well, tell me a little bit more about even your book writing journey, because this season is called Launching Pioneers. I'm really wanting to highlight women who are out there. First of all, persevering. You are absolutely steadfast, persevering, you know patience is a. I think patience is probably one of the most challenging fruits of the spirit, which also means long suffering, which I'm like Lord, we have like changed that up a little bit, but I really believe that you are, you know, the epitome of a pioneer. So what does that look like, even for you in, you know, being an author, being a podcaster, because you did Are you still practicing right now?

Speaker 2: 19:47

No, the Lord took me out of private practice during COVID because it was just not possible to do a job and do it well and be accurate in our diagnoses if we couldn't see people's faces and hear them or they couldn't hear us. So he took me out of private practice and that was OK, because I was entering a season where I needed to be more present and entered into the empty nest. I needed to be more present where I entered into the empty nest and you know it's funny because I'm very much a type A, I'm very driven. You know you give me a problem and I'm going to solve it. But right now, since January, the Lord has had me on a sabbatical, he's told me.

Speaker 2: 20:36

I need to rest for my physical body and you mentioned patience, and you know that's where he's working with me now, because I'm in a hurry to jump back in. Okay, lord, when do I get to start again? When do I write another book? What do you want me to write? What do you want me to podcast about? And he's like no, I've called you to rest.

Speaker 2: 20:53

I'm like I don't understand that word to rest. I'm like I don't understand that word. He's like that's the problem and so that's where he has me right now is learning to trust him in the quiet places, which is so different from what the past 30 years of my professional career have been like. Yeah, but I'm looking to him to bring good out of it. He wouldn't ask me to do this if it wasn't his best for me.

Speaker 1: 21:23

Amen. Well, it's interesting. I feel like there's a lot of us that are kind of operating like that in 2024. Honestly, even in the last couple of months, I kept hearing my spirit like pull back, then pivot, then pour out. So, it's like a whole. We're almost getting a new operating system.

Speaker 2: 21:46

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:46

And it's kind of uncomfortable because I've gone through since. Well, I think it was around the time that I came across you. Well, for sure, it was 2017. Was that when your first book, hope Prevails, came out? Is that right? Am I getting that right? When was it 2016. 2016. Okay, so my dad passed away in 2017. And I got the book for myself and for my mom and then, you know, my dad had passed away. I was working full time, ended up getting shingles.

Speaker 1: 22:20

And the reason I'm sharing this is because it does go back to that rest. I, I heard in my spirit for the first time, be still and know that I am God and you are not, and I was like, are you talking to me? I looked like, oh my gosh, can't be me. And I went on this deep journey of learning how to rest.

Speaker 1: 22:41

It was so, so hard, it was so challenging, because I come from you know generationally, lines of you know we'll rest when we die, that kind of mindset right and like you. Just, you know I'll do it Like if there's a problem, you'll rest when we die, that kind of mindset Right and like you, just, you know I'll do it Like if there's a problem, yo, I'll solve it. You know I'm bringing in like ice just to be funny, but you remember that song from the nineties? Yeah, kind of funny. But yeah, I mean, I totally understand. Like in this, this place where we're at right now, I do see that there's so much, um, there's a lot of transition happening. I I even this morning it was I was kind of hearing like you need to rest up for what's coming, like, oh okay, so what does that look?

Speaker 2: 23:29

like for you. God doesn't need us to be burned out. He us to be rested warriors, because we don't know when Jesus is coming back. But we know that every day, the time until he comes back is shorter and shorter, and I think God wants us rested so that we can help lead this battle headstrong. But I've always operated from the mindset of I don't want to die with any of my talent for the Lord.

Speaker 2: 23:58

Left on the table, like when I had been, I wanted to say you used it up, well done, servant. And he said I don't, I don't need your help right now. I need you to be still and hear my voice, and it's a daily, sometimes moment by moment, decision. No, I'm not going to jump into doing this because God hasn't said yes yet, and it's. I'm looking forward to seeing the fruit that comes from it. I don't see the fruit yet. Yeah, I also know that my timetable is not God's timetable. I thought we would be done with this sabbatical, and that's the interesting thing is that he knew and I've argued with him, lord, you knew that this book would be releasing. You gave me this book to write and yet he's not calling me to do all the hustle that I would have done in the past with book releases. He's like this is up to me Like okay.

Speaker 2: 25:02

Okay, lord, I trust you.

Speaker 1: 25:06

Maybe your next book will be Sacred Sabbatical. Maybe Are you kind of documenting this journey as you're going along.

Speaker 2: 25:15

I am. I am probably not as much as I should be, but yeah, over time yeah, what like.

Speaker 1: 25:24

So what does that look like for you? Because you know some listeners might be hearing oh rest, like, oh, I just need to sleep more, or um, you know, I'm just gonna go lay down during the middle of the day and take a nap, like. What does that look like for you? Because I do part of my. One of the things the Lord was showing me, in just even my coaching, is that I help women rest so they can soar. So, like airplanes I know you're one of your sons is a pilot, right? Yes, like an airplane can't fly for days. It needs to stop and refuel, right? So, like, what does that look like for you? Tangibly in in in this journey?

Speaker 2: 26:04

It's not really about sleep. It's about resting my mind and resting my heart, instead of worrying about what is the next thing I need to do or I have to do. It's realizing what God wants is for me to be still and listen, and sometimes what that means is in the middle of the day, I'm going to go off and I'm going to take a walk because I hear God better in nature. Sometimes I'm going to pick up a book that I would normally think, oh, I don't have time for this. I'm going to sit on my patio and read my book and watch the birds hit my bird feeder. Sometimes it actually means I'm going to text a friend and just check in with them and see how they are. It's allowing myself the grace to do the things that when I'm so busy doing ministry work, I think I don't have time for that. Yeah, and God's saying no, but I created rest Like it's a gift.

Speaker 1: 27:07

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I love that. I feel like we're on similar journeys. I kept hearing last year available, be available. I don't know about you, but in a time of having less, you know, having a schedule that's less full, have you had any examples of like for me? I might have a time where I walk into the grocery store and there's a moment that maybe a couple of years ago I would have had a full schedule so I might not have had the time to talk to somebody that the Lord might have me to talk to. Have you had any moments where I know you said you've been able to text friends, but have you seen any times where you've had more space, more room to kind of spontaneously minister to somebody?

Speaker 2: 27:56

space, more room, to kind of spontaneously minister to somebody. Yeah, one of the ways that that's happened is we've never done this in the past, but we go to a Saturday evening church service. And now, after the Saturday evening church service, we get together with some friends for dinner Not always the same couple, but we take the time to engage in fellowship and find out what's going on in their life and find out how the Lord is moving, hear what their needs are, whereas before, when I was so busy all the time, I got it wrong and just thought I'm too busy for that, when in reality our greatest ministry is often to the people that are already in front of us and we need to take the time now.

Speaker 2: 28:41

None of us knows how long we have on this earth but, I don't want to be so consumed with reaching the unknown that those that I know say well, but where were you when I needed you?

Speaker 1: 28:55

Yes, there's a big key right there. Say that again.

Speaker 2: 28:59

Yeah, I don't want to be so consumed with wanting me, only that those that I know ask where were you when I needed you? And that includes my own family. I recently had the opportunity. I was out of state and my daughter-in-law texted me and said I was just wondering if you wanted company. Well, I changed my return trip and said absolutely, you come on up and we'll spend time together. So we ended up having two days together. If I had been so busy with my work schedule, I wouldn't have been available to her, and we had some amazing conversations that I think this timing was God ordained.

Speaker 1: 29:41

Absolutely. Oh my gosh, what a gift, what a gift. Oh my gosh. I really hope that the listeners are hearing this because, um, in our world, pushes busy, pushes full, pushes, full, push is fast, push is, push is, push is, push is. And it can be really almost violent to push against that. Do you feel that sometimes?

Speaker 1: 30:07

And what I've come to recognize is that it's the enemy who pushes us, it's the Holy Spirit who guides, guides us, and there's a big difference yeah, do you have a verse that you're clinging to or a passage that you're clinging to, in this season of um, having more, more rest and and less busy?

Speaker 2: 30:33

It's less about the rest and it's more about recognizing what God can do, and so the verse that is just constantly reverberating in my mind recently has been Genesis 50, 20. What you intended for harm, god will use for good, for the saving of his people, for good for the saving of his people, because there are so many people that are hurting, myself included, that is so important to remember where that pain comes from. I don't think god created us for pain, but we live in a fallen world. But the question is are we going to trust god through the pain, that what the enemy intended to hurt us, god, god, will use for good? Will we trust him through that?

Speaker 1: 31:22

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:24

And that's a challenge to me as much as it is to my readers and my friends.

Speaker 1: 31:28

Yeah Well, are you open to Steven, sharing a little bit more about? You? Know your journey of walking through. You know just some of the pain of even some health. You know your journey of walking through. You know just some of the pain of even some health. You know crises that you've walked through, even recently, with yourself and your family, because that is, it's pivotal just the fact that you have even been able to write books through this process. It's fascinating to me.

Speaker 2: 31:57

Both my husband and I have gone through several bouts of cancer. Doctors told him three years ago that he only had two years to live and to get his affairs in order, and he's still here after three different kinds of cancer. The thing about my husband that I just absolutely love is that he is probably the most optimistic, positive person you will ever meet, and while I know it was a miracle from God to save his life, I also think part of the reason he's still here is because he focused on the positive. He focused on God and not on them. And I've gone through multiple bouts of cancer and after I had surgery I'll never forget, the doctor took off the bandages to take out the stitches and I looked down at my scar and I just wept because I thought this is the most ugly, grotesque thing I've ever seen, and every time I see it I'm going to think that's the mark that shows that you are now a member of a club that nobody ever wants to join, and I struggled with that physical scar. Now, remember, I've got physical scars all over my legs from my childhood illness, but this was new. This was like wow, like I just don't know if I can handle this, and it was during that time that God had me in the scriptures.

Speaker 2: 33:41

In the scriptures, studying about the crucifixion story, where Jesus was murdered as a savage death on a cross. He was nailed and beaten and had a pen of horns on his head. And I had some faulty theology going at the time, kristen, because you know, scripture talks about when we get to heaven, we're going to have these new and glorified bodies, and I've always looked forward to that because I thought, great, I'm not going to have my physical deformity, I'm not going to have my scars, I'm going to be over five feet and I'm going to be able to wear stiletto heels, because I've never been able to wear a pair of high heels. So that's, that's how I've pictured it, pictured it, but I also pictured then that when Jesus died and went to heaven in his resurrected body, I pictured that he would not have his scars anymore. And God showed me at that time when Jesus came back and presented himself to the disciples, which he did twice. The first time he presented himself to the disciples. Thomas was not there and the disciples told Thomas we've seen Jesus. And he's like yeah, I don't think so. I'm not going to believe it because I see these scars. And the second time Jesus presented to the disciples and Thomas was there Jesus didn't criticize Thomas, disciples, and Thomas was there.

Speaker 2: 35:00

Jesus didn't criticize Thomas. He didn't say you of little faith. See, I don't think it's that Thomas didn't have faith. I think Thomas had such great faith in the Messiah that he didn't want anyone pretending to be Jesus and pretending that they came back. It's not critical. In fact, jesus walked up to him and said touch and see that it is I. And in that reading I realized, oh my goodness, jesus had to keep his scars. They served the redemptive purpose of showing that he was who he said he was and that he did what he said he would do. And I felt like God whispered to my heart Michelle, your scars, whether they be physical or emotional, or relational or spiritual, they too will serve a redemptive purpose, as long as you allow me to come in and heal what needs. And that just flipped a switch for me.

Speaker 2: 35:56

Now I look at my scars and go oh my goodness. My scars, first of all prove that, with God's help, I am stronger than what has tried to come against me. They prove that God is good, they prove that God is faithful and they give me an opportunity to speak into the lives of other people and comfort them with the same comfort God has given me. And so now I look at scars completely differently. I look at them as a beautiful thing. I look at them as beauty for my ashes.

Speaker 1: 36:32

Wow, what a hope-filled perspective. Are you guys listening to this? I just am blown away. Everybody calls him Doubting Thomas.

Speaker 2: 36:43

Let anyone else pretend to be his Messiah. You know they were taught about false prophets. Nowhere in scripture does it refer to him as doubting Thomas?

Speaker 1: 37:05

Yeah, huh have you ever called him that too, or is it?

Speaker 2: 37:09

just no. My entire childhood, growing up and into adulthood, he's always referred to as doubting Thomas, and into adulthood he's always referred to as doubting Thomas. But even if God saw his statement as doubt, he wasn't content for it. Jesus is like let me show you who I am, and then Thomas could go forth and say oh, I wish you could have seen what I've seen. What Jesus said would happen did happen. I mean, it was proof, unmistakable proof, and it comforts our hearts today.

Speaker 1: 37:50

And do you talk about this in the book as well?

Speaker 2: 37:53

I do. I do Because, to me, Jesus is our perfect role model. He endured so much pain in this life more pain than we would ever endure, and he asked God to take it from him. In the garden of Gethsemane he's like Lord Father, I really don't want to go through this, but I want your will more than mine, and that tells me it's okay for me to lament and say God, I really don't like this pain. Use it for your good and for your glory, and that's the kind of prayer God wants to honor.

Speaker 1: 38:33

Well, if you were to look at, you know, just an overview of your book, is there part of the book I'm sure that this is probably a big part that you most enjoyed reading but is there maybe a part of a chapter that you can think of that you might be open to just reading a few paragraphs? That kind of was your favorite part to release in your book?

Speaker 2: 38:58

your favorite part to release in your book. One of the things that I think is so crucial for us to remember is that we get a choice how we respond. We don't always get a choice regarding what happens to us. We do get a choice in how to respond, and that includes the choice of whether or not we're going to heal, whether or not we're going to go through that healing process, and as a neuropsychologist, I can tell you that too often we are more comfortable in our current painful situation than we are willing to enter into the discomfort of the unknown in that journey. And chapter four is called Feel it to Heal it.

Speaker 2: 39:44

And the story that I share in this chapter is about a woman who, when she was on college campus campus, someone broke into her apartment, raped her, held her at knife point, tortured her, tried to suffocate her and then left, and he was wearing a ski mask, so he was never identified. And so what she did? What? She went to the police. She had a rape kit done, but what she did was then decide I'm never going to talk about this, I'm going to forget about it. It was a cold case for 35 years, and one day, 35 years later, the police called her and said we think we have a perpetrator. And all the memories came back and she realized she had not healed from it, she had just locked it away in a corner of her heart.

Speaker 2: 40:44

And this whole chapter is about how we have to feel the pain in order to heal it. And there's a section where I say friend, we must feel the pain to heal the pain. When we avoid it, we run the risk of our heart becoming hard, future experiences magnifying its existence and skewing our perspective regarding ourselves, others and the world around us. I'm such a staunch advocate of good quality mental health by a qualified professional, but I also fully believe in God's ability to heal our bodies, our minds and our hearts. God is a gentleman. He's not going to wrestle us for control. He does his best work through a heart surrendered to him. Ezekiel 36, 26 says I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you. I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. We don't want to carry around a heart of stone. First, it hurts us and it makes it harder for us to sense the voice and the will of God and fellowship of others.

Speaker 1: 42:07

Prolific. You are a prolific writer, my friend, and this book needs to get in many hands. How many? I mean just in your journey, the work that you've done. Are there many that you've come across?

Speaker 2: 42:19

that have been trained to feel the pain. No, I think the message that we're given too often, starting in early childhood, is don't cry. Yeah, get up, brush yourself off and get back into the fight and there is a place for them. But the problem is is that sends the wrong message and our body remembers the pain that we've been through. And so we run the significant risk that if we don't take the time to heal the pain, it's going to come out at a less opportune time when we're not expecting it, just like for my friend where it came out 35 years ago. So God is saying will you surrender that pain to me and let me hold your hand while we walk you through this painful healing journey, and then, when we come out on the other side, we can offer a hand to someone else who's a few rungs down on the ladder from us.

Speaker 1: 43:22

Yeah, oh, michelle, I am so thankful for you and your voice and just the ways that you've leaned into him to bring his heart to the world. Bring his heart to the world. Um, the body needs you. So thank you. Thank you for everything you do, and I I just want to thank you again, for I shared this with you last time, I think, but thank you for being a brave voice that's setting so many free yeah, I appreciate that you know it.

Speaker 2: 43:54

it's been an honor and a joy once the lord has brought me to a place to realize he's the one who sets people free, but he's looking for people to be his hands and feet be pit pullers.

Speaker 1: 44:18

There's some that are in pits and they don't know a way out, and we can either run by a pit and just not stop, or we can stop and help others out right, and you've been called and equipped to do so in a powerful way.

Speaker 2: 44:29

I just don't want the enemy to win, and I see you are held back by the belief that they have a prodigal child or they've had an abortion or they've been involved with marital infidelity or incarceration or whatever it is. The enemy wants us to think that those things in our past disqualify us from God's love or disqualify us from his service, and that can't be further from the truth. I've seen too many examples in my own life where God's like you, thought this was bad. Let me show you how I can turn it around for good.

Speaker 1: 45:09

Yes, absolutely so. On your podcast you mentioned you're interviewing gals. Is it gals and guys with stories? Oh, mm-hmm, if you could just even extract one of the stories, I feel like it'd be really powerful to kind of interweave that in this today, a story that somebody has shared with you that obviously they've shared publicly on your podcast. What might you want to share with my audience?

Speaker 2: 45:40

There's been such amazing stories, people really being vulnerable. He interviewed one woman who was raised by an abusive, alcoholic, narcissistic mother who could not love this guest. She just could not show love to her child. The mother ended up kidnapping her and her brother. They didn't see their father for a really long time. This is going back 50 years, so it was back before the internet and cell phones and he had no way to find them. And now he works as a life coach, working with other women who have gone through mother wounds and want to know how to release that bitterness and resentment and anger and unforgiveness. Years and years and years with rejection. And she came to the place where God showed her that a lot of the things that she felt were signs of rejection they were really perceived rejection and there was no proof that she had been rejected. But she learned to look through God's lens and see how she could reframe that and grow from it and be a more loving friend and neighbor and mother towards other people who also feared rejection. I mean, there's just countless story.

Speaker 2: 47:11

There was another woman that I interviewed and 60, no, sorry, 40 years ago. She found herself in a situation where she was an unwed teen and she made the whole decision to give that child up for adoption. She ended up marrying the boyfriend that got her pregnant. They've been married now for like 60 years, but after 40 years the child that she put up for adoption found her on the internet, contacted her and his father and thanked them for the good life that he'd had. He ended up adopting a child himself. He held no bitterness or resentment and now they have a beautiful relationship. But she had so much shame over being an unwed mother and then giving the child up for adoption that they didn't even tell their other children that they had a brother.

Speaker 2: 48:13

It's all just come out and it's such a beautiful story of redemption and I know that's not always everybody's story, but to me it highlights that god can do the impossible and we just have to keep trusting him. Each of these examples is how people have used their pain for good. She now speaks to other. She speaks to adoption. She now speaks to other. She speaks to adoption agencies and she speaks to other parents who have given their children up for adoption. She speaks to adopted children to understand it from a different perspective. That's what I love is that when we give back our pain and say do with it what you will. His plan is always so much better. But it also highlights that oftentimes the things that have hurt us the most oftentimes end up being our greatest memory of ministry.

Speaker 1: 49:10

Yes, yeah for sure, definitely. Oh, my goodness, I really want somebody to catch that. Can you say that again?

Speaker 2: 49:20

Yeah, frequently the areas that have wounded us the most, that have been the most painful in our lives, end up being our greatest area of ministry to others. It's much like when I went through that period of major depression. Now I can minister to others who are there who are wanting to know am I going to get through it? How do I get through it? The enemy would love us all to think, in our pain, that we're alone and nobody understands, and that couldn't be further from the truth. We all experience pain and suffering. And now I mean I never wanted to be the poster child for depression, but now I'm grateful because God answered my prayer when I was going through that and said God, I don't, I don't want this, I don't want to go through this, but if I have to, please bring good from it. And he did. He answered that prayer. So much good has come from it.

Speaker 1: 50:18

So much good. Well, you, I just, I just love your heart and I want to just point you gals and any guys who are listening, today Again, michelle's podcast is called your Hope Filled Perspective. Both of us, I believe we're created to. The Lord calls me a hope igniter. You're, you're a hope igniter. You're, you're a hope one too, like we're all about hope, right? Um, and I think a lot of that is. You know, I love hope-filled perspective, like I've walked through a lot, you've walked through a lot, but I've always hung on to hope. I've always hung on to revision. You know, like almost seeing things with different glasses. Then you know, circumstantially seeing things with different glasses. Then you know, circumstantially, it's like no, there's more coming, there's, there's betters on the way, right.

Speaker 2: 51:04

And that's what the world needs more than anything is. Yeah, for sure, we still hope when we share our stories and the testimonies of God's goodness and faithfulness. Like he is still on his throne. So as long as he's still on his throne, hope prevails.

Speaker 1: 51:27

Well, I do this for the one, and I know others listen as well. It was part of why I launched this podcast, because he said it's for the one and for the one. So, as I'm doing this, I would love for you to just imagine the one that you've been talking to today, and is there anything else that you would want to say to her or him, and would you be open to praying over them today too?

Speaker 2: 51:50

Absolutely. If you don't remember anything else that we've seen today, please that there is no pain, no experience in your past that is so devastating that it's beyond the hand of a redemptive God. Your pain and your past will never be wasted by God. Father, god, I just lift up that one who's thinking but you don't know what I've been through, you don't know what I've done, and I don't have to you do. And your word says that nothing will separate us from the love of God. Nothing, nothing we've done, nothing that's been done to us, can separate us from your love.

Speaker 2: 52:40

So, lord, would you just now just wrap your arms around them that they could even feel it in a palpable way that you're saying come home, give me your hand, let me walk you through this healing journey, because I have so much better for you, because that's who you are, god. You are a God of redemption. That's what the cross was all about and Jesus's resurrected body. Would you just let the listener today know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you never, never waste their pain, you never waste their past, but you want to bring good from it. You will bring beauty for ashes and sacred scars for their wounds. It's in Jesus name I pray. Amen.

Speaker 1: 53:23

Amen. Thank you so much for sharing your heart with us today. I will be sure to link up all of the information in the show notes how you can get ahold of Dr Michelle, get her book, get her book and happy book birthday. I know that it's a. I can't imagine the labor that that goes into birthing a book. But I can't wait for your next book to come out too, because I'm sure you have more books than you. But for now we're going to rest in this. This current book maybe again released today, and go out and get the book. Reach out to Michelle, which, if you guys could just keep her in your prayers as well and watch out for the hard hat on social media, and I'll be back with another episode next week. Thank you.