Move Over, Boomer - Generation X is about to turn 60! An interview with Sari Botton

The Generation X folks are no longer kids. They were born between 1965 and 2000, are now 44-59, and the oldest will soon enter their sixties. 

They have stepped into leadership roles across sectors, bringing their life experiences and perspectives to shape the future. 

Sari Botton is on the leading edge of that age cohort; she'll turn 60 next year. Besides publishing the engaging Oldster Magazine on Substack, she’s an established essayist, editor of best-selling anthologies, and educator. 

In this episode, Sari Botton offers a unique and thoughtful perspective on Gen X aging, a topic that has fascinated her throughout her life. 

Host Jane Trombley and Sari explore the concerns of Gen X aging into a world qualitatively and quantitatively different from the one Boomers experienced—concerns about climate change, economic and job uncertainties, and the stability of Social Security. All this against the backdrop of conventional worries about moving into the next chapter of life. 

Transcript

This transcript has been edited for clarity.

“When I was 10, at my birthday party, my uncle said, ‘Oh,you'll never be one digit again.’ And I was like, what? You mean there's a thing I can't undo? Time is dictating something in my life. And so I've been thinking about it my entire life.”

Wait, it's not just boomers grappling with the challenges of aging and ageism. Believe it or not, the kids of Generation X are about to turn 60. I'm Jane Trombley, your host of this episode of Crow's Feet, Life As We Age.

My guest today, Sari Botton, is at the leading edge of the generation roaring in behind us boomers. Sari, a Gen X-er with his 60th birthday next year, has edited best-selling anthologies, taught creative nonfiction, held university-level writer and residence posts, and currently runs three publications on Substack. In 2020, she published a memoir of essays entitled And You May Find Yourself, Confessions of a Late Blooming Gen X Weirdo.

Sari has all the Gen X street cred in the world. 

At 55, Sari left her editing job and essay series for new opportunities and encountered ageism. That experience, Sari told me, made her even more eager to explore the subject of aging.

The upshot? She launched Oldster Magazine on Substack. Here's Sari on how Oldster came to be.

In 2020, I knew I wasn't done with the subject. I kept thinking about, you know, how would I attack this? Where would I do it?

And then I had a dream one night that I started a magazine called Oldster. I woke up in the morning, made a joke about it on Twitter, and then I realized, oh, actually, it's a good name, and so I did it. And people immediately were into it.

From there, our conversation just took off. Here's how it unfolded.

Aging isn't a new concern for me. It's something I've been thinking about since I was a kid because I often felt out of step with my peers. I did things either too young or too old.

So, I've been thinking about it my entire life. And then, in my 50s, I was starting to go through some stuff around aging that I'd never been through before: menopause and aches and pains and arthritis.

You know, I started to have a different concern about aging. It meant different things to me then.

If you've been interested in aging your lifespan, that makes you the, I don't know, indisputable subject matter expert on the topic.

I don't know about that. There are some experts who know a lot of things I don't know. But I am someone who's been fascinated with this.

So I feel like I'm someone who just pays a lot of attention to it.

Can you articulate your elevator speech for Oldster, for those who may not be familiar with the magazine?

Yes, I have a tagline that says, “Exploring what it means to travel through time in a human body at every phase of life.”

So that's the why of Oldster?

That's the MO. That's what we do. The why is two-fold.

A, to sate my curiosity. Anytime I follow my curiosity on a subject and invite other voices, it always succeeds. That's one reason it exists. The other is that I'm trying to normalize and de-stigmatize aging by creating an intergenerational conversation that helps everyone know it's happening to all of us all the time.

Everybody's aging from cradle to grave, really.

Yeah. And everyone is the oldest they've ever been. And no matter what the number is, it feels strange.

So whether you've just turned 18 or you just turned 88, you can't believe how old you are. The number sounds old and there's all these new responsibilities and concerns. And that's what Oldster looks at. It's not just about or for old people, quote unquote

And most of the fact that it sounds to my takeaway, is that it's more about the experience, about the ride than the destination.

Yes, exactly. And it's a ride we're all on.

And it's all very transitory. I mean, you just mentioned whether your concerns at 18 are different from your concerns at 80.

We go through all these different age-related phases of life, and they're all interesting, and they all freak us out as we go along. When we look back, we're like, oh, I can't believe I worried about turning 40. I can't believe I was freaked out by turning 30, you know? But as we're going through it, it's just monumental.

In 2022, you published Confessions of a Late Blooming Gen X Weirdo.

That's the subtitle. The book is called And You May Find Yourself, Confessions of a Late Blooming Gen X Weirdo.

Where does the weirdness come in?

Oh, I have no shortage of ways in which I'm weird. And I talk about it in the forward where I list the many ways in which I was just different enough wherever I went. So Gen X is weird.

But even within Gen X, even within the weird musical theater geeks, I was always just a little bit different from everybody else. So I was doing things at weird times. I was very bad at sports.

I failed gym. I just was that much different from everybody else. Wherever I went, there was something that made me not like everybody.

I know that you're sort of at the point of the arrow of the Gen X cohort, right on the cusp of Generation X with maybe a little boomery things trailing behind you. I also read a quote from you that said, “The older I get, the more me I become.” As an out-of-step Gen Xer, can you elaborate on that?

You know, I think a lot of us try on a lot of identities before we figure out who we are. I think it's something I've done, but I think it's what most of us do. And, you know, the older you get, the more identities you've discarded because they aren't genuine to you.

And so the older I get, the more I narrow down by process of elimination, what is genuine to me and what is not. I also care less what other people think as I get older. And you get to know yourself better.

So I, in my late 50s, have a pretty good idea of who I am, what's genuine to me, what's not. I still get tripped up now and then, trying to please people by being something I'm not. And I then backtrack and say, oops, wait, no, this is not who I am.

To segue into the broader Gen X thing, the tendency to focus on milestones. I think that's part of our culture, part of our society. We have these pegs in life, schooling, work-life, family years, retirement, social security, Medicare.

Do you think that's happening with the Gen X cohort that you're part of? Or is it happening to you? That you're focused on milestones or not?

I can't speak to my generation, but I can tell you that I've always been focused on milestones. I think also my parents were very focused on them. I know that my friends who are parents also, they pay great attention to, what are kids supposed to be doing at seven?

What are kids supposed to be doing at 18? So I don't think it's just me, but I know that I'm personally very focused on this. I always have been.

As the subject matter expert, maybe comment more broadly about how GenXers are dealing with aging, as opposed to how boomers have dealt with it. Since now, we've got this new crop coming into that post-60.

I don't love to pit the generations against each other. There's a lot of that. But I will say, that the Boomers were the first to have protracted adolescence.

Like where the Boomers kind of went back to maybe adolescence, I think GenX just never fully grew up. Because I think a lot of us were parentified. A lot of us had to be very grown up, very young.

And then we were like, wait, I didn't get to be young. Now I'm going to be young. I don't know.

But we don't have the money that the Boomers have. We don't have, we're probably not going to have Social Security for us. I know that there's a lot of resentment among GenX and millennials that boomers have had more longevity, whether it's at work or with creative careers. And it kind of didn't make room for the next generation. I know there's a lot of resentment about that. But again, I don't like to pit the generations against each other.

I think we should all be working together to help each other out. Solidarity.

I asked Sari about the world GenX is stepping into, one that is markedly different, qualitatively and quantitatively, from the Boomer experience.
 

Well, I think that we haven't had the opportunity to amass the kind of retirement accounts that Boomers have. You know, the Boomers had a lot of great opportunities that we haven't. They made more money, they entered fields, the women went to work, the rent was less or the homes were less expensive.

They managed to amass wealth that we probably will never amass. And so we'll have less to retire on. You know, I joke with friends of mine, especially, you know, Gen Xers who also don't have kids, like who's going to take care of us?

I joke that I'm going to have to launch the Oldster Manor retirement home for Gen Xers with no kids so that we can all, you know, live there and hire, like, millennials or Gen Z to take care of us. But it's going to be harder for us because we don't -  financially -  we're not equipped the way that Boomers have been equipped. We're really going to struggle.

We haven't had the opportunities they've had, and Social Security could be destroyed by the time it's our turn.

Yeah, there are some grim predictions out there, that's for sure. It then strikes me that attitudes are going to be reshaped towards aging and ageism. Perhaps people will be working longer, perhaps they will be compelled to work longer to shore up finances.

Definitely. And the social contract between generations perhaps will change, the social contract between employer and employee will change, and social contract between the government support and population. 


Can you look into your crystal ball and…

Hard to know because, you know, there are political factions that care about people, and there are ones that don't. And so depending on who is in power, there could be lots of rights and, you know, help. And then other people who are, I don't know, have political views that are not supportive of human beings who have needs, you know, then we're in trouble.

I have no idea what's going to happen. I'm hoping for the best, but I am worried about us. I'm worried about us as we get older.

You know, I'm worried about anyone who's marginalized in any way or has needs that we would need the government to help us financially or with services. I'm worried about anybody who has those needs, people of different abilities, people from marginalized backgrounds, and migrants. I think we're, you know, depending on who is in office, we could be in danger.

Has running Oldster and getting this input through your questionnaire changed your views on aging?

I think I've become aware of my own internalized ages and more. And I've also questioned some of my assumptions. It's made me do less of a thing where I look at people older than me as “cute,” and I try not to present them in that way.

I also like to have these intergenerational conversations that open my mind. Like Laurie Stone and I have this ongoing conversation, she's 19 years older than me. And in her mind, the culture is telling her that she should look like an old lady, that she shouldn't color her hair, she shouldn't get plastic surgery.

I think the culture is telling me the opposite. So she thinks she's being punk rock by coloring her hair and doing those things. She's saying, f**k you, I don't want to look like an old lady.”

I think the culture is telling me the opposite. I think the culture is telling me, you better color your hair or you're going to look like an old lady. You better get Botox because you’ve got wrinkles.

And so I think I'm punk rock because I have gray hair. And it's an ongoing debate we have. And if I didn't have a columnist who's 19 years older than me and just as cool, cooler than me, honestly, I wouldn't know this.

And if I didn't have private conversations with her where she expands my thinking, that would be bad. So that's what I'm doing.

It brings up how subjective aging is.

It's very subjective. People have such different experiences of it, so many different presentations of it. I talk often about going to my husband's 30th high school reunion, and Brian and his identical twin looked 20 years younger than everybody else there.

There was a woman at our table who I thought was their teacher, and she was not. She just looked a lot older. She also dressed much more formally.

It blew my mind. I knew that Brian was pretty boyish for his age. Brian is 62.

He is the most boyish glaucoma patient you will ever meet. He looks so much younger than he is his twin, too. It's sometimes startling to me how subjective it is in terms of people's sartorial choices, what signifiers they wear from one 62-year-old to another 62-year-old.

It can be just a completely different presentation. There are many factors. Genetics and disability can often inform how somebody presents or goes about their life.

But I also know some people with disability who actually seem younger in ways.

I mean, as you say, sometimes it's just genetics and it's the luck of the draw. But there are also active choices to either dress in a more formal or some for women, some might say matronly fashion, and others like your friend and columnist purple their hair. So those are choices.

Yeah, some of it is a choice. Some of it is like my husband grew up in bands, you know, and so he's got this rock and roll kind of attitude. And it, you know, it affects his choices about what he wears and what he watches and listens to.

But he is part of a group called Generation Jones which is in between Gen X and boomers. They are a segment of the Boomers. They were born from 1959 to 1964.

And they act more like Gen Xers, although demographically and in a lot of other ways, they are more like Boomers.

We've sort of talked around this, so I'll ask directly, what makes you so passionate about aging?

Well, I'm going through it. I've reached a point in life where something has shifted, which is that before you hit your 50s, it's always like, what are you going to do? What's next for you? And then you hit your 50s, and it's like, oh, you're done. And now everything is going to decline.”

“I mean, not everything, but you have to push against this cultural narrative that you're you're done, it's over for you. And so that has been added to my natural curiosity and fascination with aging. There's like a pushback.

It's like, no, what? No, I'm not anywhere near done. I haven't done half the things I wanted to do.

And also we're living longer. And so it no longer makes sense if you're going to live to 100, that you're done in your 50s, you know. It's also daunting to think about how am I going to afford to live longer.

Especially when I reach an age where I either am too tired of working or I can't work. What am I going to do? You know, I don't have a lot of money in retirement.

I can afford to live until about November. 

Wherever you are on that continuum, it can be anxiety-producing. We are coming out at maybe a different point along the way, but it's anxiety-producing. And it's fearsome.

So we all have our sets of fears.

Oh, my fears?

Well, tell me yours first.

Well, my fears are more health-related.  I enjoy good health.The fears I have is that someday the shoe is going to fall. And I will curtail my activities.

I am dealing with some really bad injuries. I've been through a really hard thing in the last couple of years with arthritis and slipped discs. And it's making me want to do less, and it's making me afraid of okay, so am I just going to be in pain the rest of my life?

So I'm afraid of that. I'm afraid of like, how much worse is this going to get? And how much can I do about it?  And how much is it going to inhibit me from doing what I want to do? 

I'm also terrified of, you know, as someone who has no children, I'm terrified of growing old and aged without much support, without family to care for me. 

Between me and my husband, one of us is going to die first, and the other one's going to be left. Neither prospect makes me happy. And then the thought of, you know, living my life without him, you know, or dying and, I don't know, just so I'm filled with fear. I'm, you know, I try not to let it consume me, but yeah, I'm up in the middle of the night, worrying about all of this.

Are there things, through all the perspectives and voices that you've heard through Oldster, your own experience and the work you've done on your books -  are there some takeaways?

One is that for a lot of people, life gets better later, and that's been the best surprise, that a lot of people talk about how once they got older, and either their kids grew up or I don't know, something shifted and they had more time for things they were interested in, travel, they could retire, they could pursue creative interests, they could leave a marriage and be single, or so many people report having their lives improve as they get older.

 With some caveats, they too are having arthritis and insomnia and a lot of people say what I said, which is that they become the most themselves as they get older. They kind of push away all the stuff that isn't genuine for them and become more themselves.

A lot of women stop caring about men's opinions, which is nice to see. Those are some of the big takeaways.

Have you found that any of these lessons have been incorporated into your life? That you've changed in some ways?

Not really. I don't think that I see them as lessons. I think it's just expanded awareness.

By the way, another thing I forgot to mention is there's a question about this in the Oldster questionnaire. A lot of people in their minds see themselves at different ages than they currently are. It's like an emotional age.

I guess it was Maggie Smith who likened it to nesting dolls. And someone else talked about it as being a house haunted by many versions of ourselves. That is something almost everyone reports.

And do they talk about their emotional age not really being in sync with their chronological age?

Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people say that. You know, that their chronological number does not reflect at all who they think of themselves as. Yeah, there's a lot of that.

It's quite a ride. And as they say, nobody gets out alive.

That's true. That is very true.

This wraps up my conversation with Sari Botton on Crow's Feet, Life As We Age. I'm Jane Trombley.

From Crow's Feet: Life As We Age: Move Over, Boomer - Generation X is about to turn 60! An interview with Sari Botton, Aug 28, 2024

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/move-over-boomer-generation-x-is-about-to-turn-60-an/id1629856339?i=1000666865434

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