81 | Trip Sitter, Guide, or Solo Journey?

There comes a moment in every seeker's journey where the path forward demands not just intention, but a guiding hand. Our latest episode answers one of the questions we get a lot from beginners. 'Can I trip solo or do I need a guide?' Choosing a sitter or guide for psychedelic journeys, is a choice almost as critical as the experience itself. We share heartfelt narratives that illuminate the emotional intricacies of such decisions, discussing how relationships evolve and how these transformations can affect the sense of security one feels with a trip sitter. Unspoken bonds, trust, and the financial realities that often lead to non-professional support all come under our thoughtful gaze. We're not just talking about safety nets here; we're revealing the soul connections that make or break transformative experiences.

As we wade into the waters of our consciousness, the ripples of our psychedelic journeys extend far beyond the shores of the experience itself. We unravel the importance of integration, a journey that continues long after the effects of the substances have faded. It's a discussion that extends a hand to those who find it hard to ask for help, highlighting the power of surrendering to the care of a community. Each unique integration process is like a thread woven into the fabric of our lives, sometimes subtle like the benefits of microdosing, other times profound and life-altering. Our conversation takes a compassionate look at the lifelong dance of integrating insights into the everyday, a ballet of the soul that requires grace, patience, and the courage to be vulnerable.

Our exploration doesn't end at the boundaries of the mind; it spans to the significance of surrounding oneself with the right people. We reflect on what to look for in a trip sitter — someone who brings calm to the chaos, who lets emotional expressions flow uninhibited, and whose own inner work shines like a beacon in the tempest. The episode isn't just a guide; it's a companion piece to those seeking to embrace their quirks and the weirdness that makes us wonderfully human. We discuss resources like the Fireside Project for those in need, and through it all, a message is clear: the right support person isn't just valuable; they're essential, lending their serenity to our inner turmoil and aiding in the journey toward healing.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:20

Okay, leah, angelina.

Speaker 2: 0:26

Okay, diane, there you go. Christine, diane, what are we talking about today?

Speaker 1: 0:37

Okay, so someone reached out to us and said that she was wanting to trip sit for her sister and vice versa. Okay, that we typically recommend, but I feel like it's a question, or it's a topic that gets brought up a lot, where people don't let's say they can't afford to go to a retreat, they don't feel comfortable with you know someone they don't know facilitating for them or trip sitting for them, um, and they don't have anybody that has done heroic doses and knows the medicine to sit for them.

Speaker 2: 1:35

Another obstacle I think that I have come across is some people can't afford to have someone sit with them.

Speaker 1: 1:42

It's expensive, it's really expensive. Going to a retreat is expensive, whether you do it in the U S, you know, out of the country you, you know you're doing it with a psychedelic therapist. You do it with a psychedelic therapist.

Speaker 2: 1:57

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:58

It's all expensive, yeah, and so I understand that. So I wanted to talk about that today. If it none of those things work for you going to the retreat, you know, doing psychedelic therapy, whatever the reason and this is the way that you're going to go we want you to do it safe, with the right person, and so we want to dive into that today.

Speaker 2: 2:26

So the question is should I journey with a guide or trip sitter, or should I do it solo? I feel like that's like the encompassing question, or I guess in some of our listeners cases like could my boyfriend sit for me, could my roommate sit for me? Yeah, yeah. So, to get into it, I think the first thing that we need to do is talk about the difference between somebody being a trip sitter and someone being a guide. Okay, to do is talk about the difference between somebody being a trip sitter and someone being a guide. Okay.

Speaker 2: 3:07

So I think being a trip sitter is a little less involved. So you know how there's like levels to a wedding planner and there is like the person who she works with you for months and does all the details and comes to you with decisions, like final decisions, and then she's there the whole day, or I'm saying she could be a he, like they're there the entire day of the wedding and you don't have to do much work. And then there's the package, the lower end of the package, where it's like I'm just going to be there the day of Right To me, that's the difference between, like, someone who is a guide and someone who is going to be a trip sitter for you.

Speaker 2: 3:49

And I also. There's a lot of negative. I feel icky sometimes using the word guide because we're not guiding Nobody's. Nobody should be guiding you into some type of experience. They're really just there and you are the person who is guiding yourself. But it's important to have someone who knows what that looks like, and so there is a little bit of a difference in that and the word guide. We're just using that in this episode because it's that more in-depth person who is helping you prepare, helping you integrate, helping you like a month before your journey and a month after your journey. They know the medicine. They know the medicine. They've journeyed with it themselves. They're doing their own work. That's to me like the difference between a guide and a trip sitter. A trip sitter is like someone who's like maybe done psychedelics for fun a few times here and there, and they have a little bit of experience, but not much. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 1: 4:54

So, like Jason has trips that for you, tony has trips that for me. Yes, they don't necessarily Tony's done one journey. Yeah, he doesn't necessarily know the medicine that well and has been around it that often or much, but he is somebody who I feel safe with, he is somebody who, um, I trust he is somebody who, like, makes me feel calm in that type of an environment, and so he has sat for me before.

Speaker 2: 5:25

You know it's interesting. I just had this thought as you were saying that, like my first journey, I was not with my husband, like I didn't feel safe with him, period. I was with a guide in the woods. Yeah, the second journey, I was in on this couch, actually in the basement, by myself. It was in the middle of the day, he was working and I was like I don't need you, but I'll be in the basement and I'll just let you know if I need you, you don't need to do anything. And then towards the end of the trip, like I needed him because I couldn't human, couldn't function as a human, function as a human I don't know if, if you've ever experienced it before, it's hard to explain, but like doing daily tasks seems impossible, yeah, and I heard someone say in a podcast it's like turning into a baby all over again. Yeah, like you're like I want water, but oh my God, how do I get, how do I do that?

Speaker 2: 6:21

Like I know I need water, but like I'm going to have to go up the stairs and I'm going to have to get a glass and I'm going to have to get the water and I just want to drink it. Right, I just want somebody else to do that for me. It's like reverting back to a toddler, where you're being taken care of. Um, and then the third journey I did. He actually did sit with me the whole time, but I also think that's a testimony of the evolution of our relationship. Oh, absolutely Like where it took years of healing and evolving and growing for me to feel emotionally safe with him, and I actually have a video of him sitting with me in my last journey and I kind of want to share it eventually you should Just a clip.

Speaker 1: 7:09

I don't think I've ever seen it. Oh, yes, I have. Yeah, yeah, I have.

Speaker 2: 7:13

Yeah, I like cry and tear up every time I see it, because I'm like he was the best supporter in what I needed in that time. So I also. We just released an episode about like the LSD and how we had like a trips that are there. Who was just there in case something went wrong? Right, who was going to be the sober person If somebody fell down and broke their leg or we needed a ride out of the woods or you know whatever? Yeah, just someone there to keep you safe. There's also a difference between, like, a nanny and a babysitter for a night, you know, yeah, so there's levels to this. Absolutely so sorry, I didn't mean to go on a tangent, but you were talking about how, like, Tony sat with you in your last one but he didn't guide you.

Speaker 1: 8:02

No, and honestly, when I was under the medicine, I like he would come just to like see if I was okay, and I would literally tell him back like I know, like I'm sitting here. That was the one where you're sweating out.

Speaker 1: 8:15

I'm like sweat out every trauma of my ancestors and what the? You were having a rough time. I was having a rough time and I still told them I was fine. Interesting because I knew that I could get myself through it, not saying that like I don't need you, I don't need you. It was. I knew I had to experience it and I had to experience it alone because it was my ancestors.

Speaker 1: 8:51

Nothing personal there's nothing he could have done Right, but I knew like I just had to sit with it. And that was when my hair was like super red and I was sitting outside and I was like, oh, and it was fresh red. It was fresh red and I didn't put my hair up. So dumb, so dumb. I did not put my hair up and I was literally laying on my side in a fetal position. I've never sweat like that in my life. I have a sauna and I don't sweat like that, and sweat beads were literally coming out of every pore and my hair's in my face and I, when I get done, I literally I lay in a cold bath for like two hours and I hate fucking cold. So that that just shows how challenging it was. But I look in the mirror and I'm like, oh my god, I looked like Carrie. Oh, because the red dye like bled on my face because I was sweating that much.

Speaker 2: 10:00

Oh my god, it was like just I should have taken a picture, but I'm like I'm scared you shouldn't take.

Speaker 1: 11:20

I'm scared, I'm terrified of myself. It looked like somebody had poured pig's blood over me. Oh, that's disgusting.

Speaker 2: 11:28

It was insane. I really am mad you didn't take a picture.

Speaker 1: 11:31

Honestly, I am too, but it was really hard for me to function for like a while really hard for me to function for like a while.

Speaker 2: 11:39

And that's the thing. Like you revert back to that like toddler, like state where you want to be taken care of a little bit and you need someone there.

Speaker 1: 11:50

Yeah, but in that I it was like it took everything out of me and I know this sounds weird and it was crazy, but it was. It was a necessary release because I felt like I was healing a lot of just generational trauma that I was carrying and it's like for that moment I needed to be alone, to just sit with it and decompress from it. Just sit with it and decompress from it. And so having a trip sitter who can sit with you if you need it also having a trip sitter who is not going to take it personal and respects if you want to be alone and you need that too is important.

Speaker 2: 12:29

So I think one of the first questions, whether you are trying to decide whether you want a trips that are going solo, is like or the or guide um is what is your intention when you're taking the medicine? Are you just trying to have like a good fun time with some friends, maybe someone? They're sober, maybe sometimes you don't even need that and it depends on the dose. Like honestly, but like if you are going to go in to do a heroic journey or to do some deep, introspective healing work, that's when I think like you need somebody with you. And there's a lot of opinions about this. A lot of people think, no, you do it solo, you do it solo. This is why I disagree with this. A lot of people think, no, you do it solo, you do it solo. This is why I disagree with this.

Speaker 2: 13:22

We are not meant to be a solo society. We are meant to be in community. We are meant to be in connection with people, and I think there is something to be said for healing the divine feminine in you to be taken care of for a little bit, yeah, and to feel like you're not a burden. And I think one of the hardest things for a lot of women these days is feeling like they don't need to be taken care of. And I think that there comes healing when you realize like it's okay to be taken care of. And I think that there comes healing when you realize like it's okay to be taken care of and it's also okay to ask for help, because one of the things like we'll get into this, but like when you have a trip sitter or somebody there with you, like you can ask them for something yeah, can you get me water? Yeah, yeah, can you get me something to eat? Right, and even if and that's hard when you're not, when you're used to like not practicing that muscle of asking for help.

Speaker 1: 14:19

Right and even like for me with that last journey. Yes, I wanted to be alone, but I also knew he was there. Yes, so like it wasn't that I was alone, I wanted some, some space for myself to process what had happened, but he was in the other room and was there, you know, on hand if I needed him at any moment.

Speaker 2: 14:45

You know what I think I just I think a guide is important if it's your first time because, like I said before, they're that person who's going to be with you and help you prepare for like a month before. They're going to help you really, like they know and understand the medicine so well that they're going to help you fully prepare for your experience. They're going to help you with the diet, they're going to help you with the protocols, they're going to help you every step of the way and then, the day of, they're there with you and then after that, they're helping you process and integrate and helping you find guidance. If they can't help guide you in some type of way with the integration, and then, once you have that understanding of what the process looks like and it's kind of what we did I don't need a guide anymore. Yeah, I do need someone to sit with me though.

Speaker 1: 15:44

Yeah, I'm glad you said that Um, because we have a lot of um. We have heard a lot of stories of people who do it and then two months later they'll do it again, and two months later they'll do it again, and two months later they'll do it again where it's like it's really important to sit with the medicine for a little while to help with integration. And I think that's where a guide comes in to explain that, yeah, whereas you've been on this journey before, so you already know that that's the integration piece is is such an integral, integral yeah, okay, that sounded weird when I said it a little bit did, but I knew what you were saying.

Speaker 2: 16:28

Okay, I was like an integral part.

Speaker 1: 16:31

Yeah, it didn't sound right Integral part of the process. Yeah, so you just have to. Again, if you're going to do a trip sitter, you don't have the means to a guide or access to a guide. Understand that that's such a vital piece to it.

Speaker 2: 16:51

It's not the piece that only goes with your first trip, right?

Speaker 2: 16:55

You should be taking that with every journey here on out A hundred percent, and I think that that's why you and I afterwards were like we don't need a guide, right, but I? But, because we know what this process looks like. We don't need someone to tell us what, how to surrender to the medicine, because we've experienced it and we know what that looks like. Um, we don't need someone to hold our hands Right and we know, experienced it and we know what that looks like.

Speaker 1: 17:18

We don't need someone to hold our hands Right and we know the first time we did Right and we know that integration is not like OK, I do A, b, c, d, e. Yes, integration can be different for each journey, depending on what you need, but it's being able to sit with yourself to kind of dissect all pieces of your life, like, all right, how am I showing up in my marriage? How am I showing up as a parent? How's work, how are the people I surround myself with? What needs to change? I'm going to start somatic therapy soon. That's something I've never done before and realized that I really really needed it. Integration looks very different every single time and I think it's like I just can't stress that enough Like being able to sit with yourself and really take that introspective look to see what it is that you need to integrate. I just had this thought because it never ends.

Speaker 2: 18:18

It really never ends Like a lot of the integration process is like the next six months after your journey, Like and I say the rest of your life.

Speaker 1: 18:26

True Integration is your entire, like it is literally your life.

Speaker 2: 18:31

I just had this thought, because you know how we've done an episode on microdosing and with microdosing it's like you don't feel the effects, but then we tell people, like at the end of the day, maybe look back at your day and see where or how you showed up a little bit different or where you may you were triggered, but instead of respond, reacting, you responded and you sat with it, like that means it's working Right, and so with a microdose, it's something that you're taking like every other day, every two or three days, and that's the part of the process with a large journey, I would almost say because it's a larger journey and it's a larger scale at the end of the month since your journey and say what's been different this month? How have I showed up differently? You know what I'm. Does that make sense? What I'm trying to say?

Speaker 2: 19:31

Like I'm trying to like relate it back to the microdosing and at the end of the day, with, with, with the medicine, it's like at the end of every month because your second month might not be so easy, your third month might get a little bit harder, and we tell people this all the time, but like you might stay in that mushroom glow or that mushroom cloud for a little bit and things might be awesome and great. And we actually just did an episode with Allie where she had that experience. And then life happens, yeah, six months after her journey, yeah, where it's like, oh shit, now I have to put in the real work. Now it's not so rainbows and butterflies and it's not so peaceful, and you know, this is where the work starts. So I think when you're doing a journey, too often you don't allow yourself that time to really integrate fully the experience and let it sit out for a little bit. Okay, I love that.

Speaker 1: 20:31

That's. That's what I was going to say.

Speaker 2: 20:33

So my thing was going to be like the difference between a trip sitter and a guide, um who? Well, I'm just going to hand you my phone, Um, I think that one of the important things is that, no matter who you're with, if your intention is to do deep work, you need to be someone who is with someone who is also doing that and who has an understanding of what doing the work means.

Speaker 1: 21:02

Yes, it can't just be your bestie right, it really can't, and it may not be your husband, it may not be your wife, it may. So it's again, it's like you have to use. If you're going to do a trip center, again, we want you to do it safely, as safely as possible. It may not be the person closest to you which I kind of want to get into. Yeah, you know what and when I, when we say like a heroic journey and you need a trip sitter, I would say like three, three grams up, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 21:35

Yes, I'm going to let you just kind of go down the list and I can all like speak or add, or we can like elaborate on some of them. So when choosing someone to sit with you, these are probably the things that you want to look for in someone.

Speaker 1: 22:01

Yeah, okay, so it would. This isn't always going to be the case, but it is. Would be nice if you had somebody who was knowledgeable about the medicine, understood the dose, its effects, all of that, and I'll get into more later on as to why. Yeah, ok, because when you do a journey, you don't know what's going to come up. Yeah, and they don't either. There's no way to predict that. It's not a black and white thing.

Speaker 2: 22:28

I should also say there are a lot of tools out there for people. One of the things I did before I sat with someone for the first time was there's a book, the Psychedelic Explorer's Guide. Yes, that kind of teaches you about each medicine. So I went to the chapter on psilocybin and I read every part of that. Let it soak in, we'll link it and good idea. And I didn't.

Speaker 2: 22:57

It's not like necessarily like, and now you know how to guide people, but I wanted a better understanding of it. Even though I had already sat with the medicine, I wanted to be prepared for anything. So that's important in finding someone. I have talked with people before who has had their husband sit with them and their husband has never done the medicine. I've talked with their husband and said this is what may or may not come up and this is what you should or shouldn't do, and this is what it means to be in support of someone on a journey and you really don't interfere. So it can be someone, as long as that person is willing to really dive in and understand what it means to be in support of you with this medicine and be knowledgeable in the best way that they can be.

Speaker 1: 23:54

Yeah, Okay, so some characteristics to look out for, and again I want to stress that you may not have someone who is every single one of these.

Speaker 2: 24:08

True.

Speaker 1: 24:10

It may be a hard thing to find. So, again, using your best judgment, let's say who's the most of these in your life, who checks the most boxes? Okay, so you want somebody who is nonjudgmental, um, and they're able to be curious and inquisitive. So I guess an example I would use is there are a lot of people who I've told that I did a heroic journey and it has nothing to do with them, and they don't even want to hear about it. Like they can't hear about it because it's against everything that we got taught. So it's like they can't even like digest what I'm telling them. They don't want to.

Speaker 2: 25:03

Don't tell me things I don't want to know. Probably not the right person.

Speaker 2: 25:07

Definitely not the right person. What about can I add to that? Absolutely, keep, like, add whatever I say. Okay, let's say, like you feel I'm just going to throw this out there You're close with your sister, but your sister is this like I don't. I just don't believe in the meta, I just don't believe in this kind of stuff. It goes against everything I believe. But like, okay, fine, I'll sit with you. No, yeah, no yeah, because that energy is going to show up, yeah, and you're going to be in your head that day energetically thinking like I shouldn't be doing this.

Speaker 1: 25:39

So no, yeah, and it doesn't even have to be about psilocybin no-transcript.

Speaker 2: 26:09

Give them some homework. Be like this is what I read, this is what I've watched, this is what the process is. You should watch and do the same things, and I'm going to take that even back to, like what I said in a previous episode about the what to expect. When you're expecting just wanting my partner to to know what I was going through, yeah, that to me is like a big green flag. If you're doing this with someone and they want to know more about it in the way that you do, a hundred percent.

Speaker 2: 26:40

Yep.

Speaker 1: 26:40

Um, um, someone who is easygoing. So do you know those people who? They are the control freaks. They have to have a say, they have to like, they have to take over. Also, not the right person. You want somebody who again, because what I said earlier, you don't know what's going to show up for you, you don't know the emotions you're going to feel during. They don't know what's going to show up for you. There is a lot of unpredictability with this. Yes, you could have the best journey of your life and everything's rainbow and butterflies, or it could be like my journey, where it's like hundreds and hundreds of years of ancestral trauma. I don't know Dungeons and dragons, I'm not sure you don't know. And so somebody who is able to kind of roll with what's going on and they're not going to try to control the situation or control you in this situation.

Speaker 2: 27:45

Can I give such a small example of that? Yeah, such a small example would be of someone not to have with you is someone who's like it's okay, don't cry.

Speaker 1: 27:58

Don't cry, which I feel like that's a level of control.

Speaker 2: 28:01

Right, yeah, like they're uncomfortable with you crying and they're like you know it's okay You're, you're on mushrooms, but you know don't cry. Yeah, no, you want someone who's going to be like it's okay to cry. Yeah, let it out. Yeah, whatever you need to do, let it out. I'm here to witness and watch and not watch like creepy, not in a creepy way.

Speaker 2: 28:21

But, like you know, I'm here to witness your healing and and if you need to jump around and scream, do that. I'm not going to judge you for feeling that way. Like I've sat with people who, like shake uncontrollably and they're apologizing for it and I'm like you're having a very somatic experience, Like your emotions are leaving your body in a in a somatic way, Like don't apologize for that.

Speaker 1: 28:48

Yeah, it's not weird, absolutely At all.

Speaker 2: 28:51

Absolutely yeah. So basically, be with someone who's okay with, like, seeing some weird shit. Yeah, and there is not going to be weird about seeing some weird shit, right.

Speaker 1: 29:01

Right Now we kind of were talking about it with, with, with Jason, um, how, in the third journey that you did, he sat with you the whole time and he was very attentive. So attentive so you want somebody who is going to like care for you if you need it. You basically need a mother.

Speaker 2: 29:58

Yes, yes, yes. Can I explain further on how he was attentive? Sure, um, at this point I had journeyed solo, solo ish. When I say solo, I always had somebody with me. But, like at this point, I had journeyed solo ish and I probably wouldn't have asked for help. But he noticed I was struggling and he straight up was like do you need any help? And just hearing that broke me down. I was like, yeah, I think I do.

Speaker 1: 30:31

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:32

And he came over and he sat next to me, but like having someone to who is aware enough and attentive enough to see that you're struggling, who can ask what you need, because you may not be able to articulate what you need. You may not even know that that's an option because you're still in this other world. You're like wait, I think I do need a little bit of help. Yeah, can you just come sit next to me, or can you hold my hand, or can you turn the lights on, or can you change the music, so someone who can notice that you're being, that you're a little bit uncomfortable.

Speaker 1: 31:13

I'm going to add to that. Go for it. This is so small but it's not Someone who would be willing to help you go to the bathroom.

Speaker 2: 31:23

Hundred percent.

Speaker 1: 31:25

Like who do you feel comfortable and who do you have trust and faith, knowing they will help you go to the bathroom? I Because you Would not have even thought of that May need help going to the bathroom. Well, I'm saying that they're going to have to wipe your ass, but you just need you know you might, it might, you might and you might just need help walking to the bathroom.

Speaker 2: 31:52

I think a good thing to ask is they might not ever need to wipe your ass, but would you feel comfortable if they did wait?

Speaker 1: 31:55

So would you wipe my ass if I needed it?

Speaker 2: 31:59

I probably would in that setting. Yeah, I really probably would.

Speaker 2: 32:04

I would too, but I would probably like also I don't something I don't think a lot of people know is that, like psilocybin, is also a diuretic, so it can make you want to shit or puke. Okay, puking, that's another thing you might throw up. Have someone with you who's not going to be grossed out by you puking and who's going to clean it up and be like oh my gosh, don't worry about it, it happens. Yeah, because that could happen. You might pee your pants, you might not, but if someone sees you struggling and they're like are you okay, do you need anything? You're going to be like I think I need to pee, yeah, and they can hold your hand to the bathroom. Which side note, yeah, the diuretic.

Speaker 1: 32:47

That is why we fast the day of yeah, so just keep that in mind.

Speaker 2: 32:52

Yeah, what goes?

Speaker 1: 32:56

in must come out. I mean not always.

Speaker 2: 32:58

It's not ayahuasca true I will just say I have not well, I just tell people, or shat I recommend fasting of psilocybin, true, and but I always recommend fasting because it's like you will get nauseous and if you have stuff sitting in your stomach, it's gonna come up. It's probably gonna come up. It's probably going to come up. So, if you want to eat, make sure you're okay with it coming back up. Yeah, yeah, because it's probably going to happen. Yes, okay, keep going. Sorry, Okay.

Speaker 1: 33:27

So we we talked about how, again, you can have this beautiful, everything's beautiful type journey, but also you can have something that's really really hard or challenging. You want someone who is calm in that sense and somebody who is not just going to react and is not just going to be impulsive to go do something. They're able to kind of take a breath. They're. They're able to maybe handle a little bit of pressure. They, they handle pressure a little well. Um, and we have said we don't hand handle pressure well, but not in this situation, because we know and we're more comfortable, we know that this is kind of how the process is supposed to go. But somebody who is, if you're having a hard time, they're like, okay, I'm gonna take you to the hospital or I'm gonna call the cops or I'm going to you know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 34:23

They're going to freak out and you're going to feel that yeah, you want somebody who is a little calm, level-headed. They're not just going to react, they're going to think and sit with it for a second.

Speaker 2: 34:35

Well, let me give a little bit of an example of that Like. So, sometimes people can get caught in loops, and that is a natural thing. It can happen. Have you ever been caught in one? I feel like we've talked about this, maybe not.

Speaker 1: 34:47

No, I have not Okay.

Speaker 2: 34:48

They're terrifying because you, before you go into an experience, know that you're going to be in and out within you know six to eight hours and if you get caught in a loop, that feels like an eternity. It feels like you're never going to get out of it. It feels like this is the way that you're going to be for the rest of your life, and I shouldn't have done it. I'm the one that they were warning me about it. Fucked with my like. Now I'm in. Now I'm in psychosis permanently, like it'll fuck with you if you get stuck in a loop and being with someone who is who knows that that's a possibility can kind of hold your hand through that and say you're not like this.

Speaker 2: 35:27

It's not going to stay like this forever. You're on mushrooms right now. You're going to stay like this forever. You're on mushrooms right now. You're going to come out of it. It's going to take a little bit, but you're going to be fine, instead of someone who's going to freak out and be like, oh my god, yeah, what if you're in psychosis? Oh shit, I don't know what to do with this, oh my god, we fucked up right, right, you would fuck up.

Speaker 2: 35:46

you would be so fucked up if someone was telling you that that was supposed to be like sitting with you. Yeah, that would really fuck with your head.

Speaker 1: 35:54

Oh, 100%, 100%. Okay, here's another one. Okay. So you, for example, okay, you are someone that I can talk to about deep, dark things. I've been talking to you about mother wounds, father wounds, past trauma, all this heavy stuff that is oftentimes hard for us to talk about.

Speaker 2: 36:23

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:24

Especially when talking to the wrong person Sometimes even our closest friends.

Speaker 2: 36:29

It's hard to do.

Speaker 1: 36:30

Oh God, yeah, 100%. But on the other hand and I think people can see from listening to us on the podcast or seeing our content I also have a lot of fun with you. We can joke, we can laugh, we can be silly. I think both are essential. You want someone who can do both, because I've had two journeys now where ancestral stuff came up. First one, I came out, I was smiling, I was grinning from ear to ear. I was like I was like that was amazing and we were like laughing about it and like amazing. And we were like laughing about it and like it was happy and all was good. Well, you weren't there for the other one, but that one was. It was really challenging and it was hard and it was dark, um, and I was able to talk to you about both and I felt safe doing so and I think finding someone who can hold space for all of it is wonderful.

Speaker 2: 37:38

That's a really good point. I'm going to rewind it a little bit about like the being calm or something. We've said this before, but I think a big part of being a guide or a trip sitter is lending someone your calm nervous system. That's a huge piece of being able to sit with someone and remaining calm in their chaos is can you remain a calm nervous system so when they're freaking out, they can feed off of your calm energy, because if you freak out, they're going to freak out even more yeah.

Speaker 1: 38:18

Yeah, I love that. Okay, the person that you're thinking of sitting with you how do they handle their home, their own life? Do they suppress their emotions? Do they um not take accountability? Do they um project onto other people? Do they? Are they kind of like what you said? Are they doing the work? Are they doing the work? I don't want someone to sit for me who doesn't do the work, doesn't take accountability for their actions, doesn't do any type of introspective work, um projects their wounds, suppresses their emotion. Anger is not a valid feeling. To feel like you know that's. I don't want that. So it's like the person who you want to sit with you. How do they live their life? Yeah, is it a life where, like, they're on their own healing journey? Or is it a life where they avoid all of those things, because those things are hard, I think.

Speaker 2: 39:33

I really like that you're saying this, because sometimes I think people are like well, what does it matter if they're just sitting with me for a few hours? Energy baby, that matters so much.

Speaker 1: 39:44

Oh God, yeah, so much Because, again, let's say, something comes up and you're, you're you're not like in the depths of it, but you, you come out of it, you're still a little, still a little loopy and you want to talk about it. How are they going to show up for you in that moment? What advice are they going to give you? Right, if they're not doing the work themselves? I'd be like your advice sucks Right Like hell. No, yeah, no.

Speaker 1: 40:12

So it's like, think about that person and how they are living their life. That's a big one, that's a huge one. Okay, another thing you come out of it. You may want to talk for hours, you may not shut the hell up about what just happened. I feel like that happens a lot Totally. And, yes, you want someone to talk, but I've done journeys. You know there's I've done journeys where I've sat with people and they come out of it and I have no idea what happened. I have no idea what they experienced. I have no idea any details of it. Yeah, that is also okay, because it's not my journey, it's theirs. So is that person okay with, like you holding on to it for a little bit and you keeping it to yourself? Like, are they comfortable if, like you're, like I don't feel like talking about it, or you just don't say anything at all I usually that is something I will tell someone's spouse.

Speaker 2: 41:27

Yeah, when they are like coming home from a journey, like, don't ask too many questions, they will share when they're ready to share. Don't get upset if they can't explain it, because their mind and their body are playing a little bit of catch up right now and you putting pressure on them to share their experiences is only gonna make it harder for them to share their experiences, is only going to make it harder for them to share. Yeah, so yeah, that goes with the trip sitter too. Like a lot of times people come out of it and I don't know what they experienced, but we're still talking for hours.

Speaker 1: 42:04

Yeah, my last journey. I didn't tell Tony any details. For a long time we sat in silence and he was okay with that. I love that, because talking was not what I needed at the moment, but to me he held space for me to be able to just sit in silence and still be, it be okay. And and then, when I was ready, then I started to talk about it more. Yeah, so somebody who is about it more. Yeah, so somebody who is okay with that. Yeah, this is a good one. Okay, someone who is emotionally intelligent, that's a hard one. That is a hard one. I did not.

Speaker 2: 42:49

Literally. Up until a few years ago, I used to always say like I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart, and I did not realize what I was trying to say was. I am emotionally intelligent.

Speaker 2: 42:58

I am not IQ smart. Yeah yeah, but I didn't know there was a difference. And it's like now that I've watched a few TED Talks on it about the importance of emotional intelligence and why it's more important than IQ, and I'm like, holy shit. I've had some conversations with people who are IQ smart but not very emotionally intelligent and it is hard.

Speaker 1: 43:26

Yeah, yeah, and I think you know emotional intelligence and being able to, like hold space for yourself, hold space for other people. Um, again, going back to oh, like no, no, no, no, Don't cry. Oh no, no, no, no, don't don't be mad, don't feel sad, don't feel sad, don't feel angry where it's like no, I shouldn't feel mad. Yeah, an emotionally intelligent person is going to be able to hold space for all of those things, because it it's they're comfortable with their own expression of emotions.

Speaker 2: 44:08

Yes, yes, yeah, I used to, not too long ago, get very upset with my husband because he could not hold space for my emotions, and it was because he wasn't able to hold space for his. Yeah, and have you ever heard that word Like if you are with someone who's emotionally unavailable, it's not because they're emotionally unavailable to you, it's because they are unemotionally available to themselves. They do not know how to hold space and express their emotions, so they don't, and so when someone else does, it makes them very uncomfortable.

Speaker 1: 44:49

I've dated a lot of men who struggled if I felt sad about something, if I was angry about something, but they missed out, because Tony allows me to feel the depths of sadness and grief and frustration and anger also. On the other end, there's deep love, there's deep peace, there's happiness, like. I feel this because and I also get to feel this Mm-hmm and both are necessary and important. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 45:37

I like that one Emotionally intelligent.

Speaker 1: 45:39

I do too. Okay, here's another one. Who is someone that you feel comfortable with? That you feel comfortable with. You went camping with them, or you're out in the woods or in the forest or whatever, and you would be okay with that person for a week or two.

Speaker 2: 46:10

That's a hard one. That is a hard one. Let me tell you why. There are people that I have vacationed with, but then I retreat back to my little room to take a little break from peopling with the people and I also am like okay, that was a lot.

Speaker 2: 46:33

I come home and I want to decompress, I want to take another vacation from the people I just vacationed with. So I think it would need to be someone that, like you, can vacation with for two weeks without wanting the breaks and without feeling like you have to.

Speaker 1: 46:55

Yeah. You're so patient after you're you're really right, cause there have been trips. I've gone on where I'm like oh my God, this person is exhausting.

Speaker 2: 47:04

Yes, and you get the energies just don't match up.

Speaker 1: 47:09

Yeah, they just don't align, and that's okay, it's not, but it's almost like well, it's vacation, it's like we're hanging out you know in the past, drinking, doing this, whatever and then you go back to your room.

Speaker 2: 47:22

I guess what I mean is I have a thought Okay, someone you can be with for two weeks without your mask on, oh, so good. Because those kinds of vacations are very different, where you feel seen, fully seen by the people that you're surrounding yourself with. So that's why I'm like that. When you showed me that question, I was like we can elaborate, and that's why I think it's important to elaborate, like going on vacation with someone with a family member, or like you guys have been friends for a long time, like that's very different than going on vacation with someone where you can fully unmask.

Speaker 1: 48:09

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 48:09

And be your authentic self, yeah, self where you don't have to put the mask on for anybody, right, yeah, there's a difference, absolutely. So what if it's like who you can vacation, who you can put your mask away with for two weeks?

Speaker 1: 48:26

Yes, put your mask away with two weeks. I love that. I love that because, because that is so true, because you know like, again, using you as an example, I feel like I can be myself.

Speaker 2: 48:37

Be your weird batty self.

Speaker 1: 48:41

But like, yes, you see goofy, you see silly, you see funny, but also you see deep and you see, you know strong emotions that feel and and darkness that I feel, like y'all think we're weird.

Speaker 1: 48:55

Now you should hear us when the mics aren't on I know like we have some weird fucking conversation, yeah I literally did mvma and I was talking the whole time and this past weekend and I out loud, I'm like, oh my God, I sound so fucking weird right now and I knew that. But again, the person who I was with, it was OK, it was OK.

Speaker 2: 49:25

The thoughts that are coming out.

Speaker 1: 49:27

I'm like I'm speaking my thoughts and I don't know how OK they are. They sound fucking weird.

Speaker 2: 49:33

Two years ago I'd been like weird oh, and now you embrace your weird exactly. I'm like yeah a vacation with someone who is okay with you being your fucking weird self.

Speaker 1: 49:46

Okay, and I'm just gonna say why there was. I was doing MDMA and I was outside, and there was, I was doing MDMA and I was outside and, um, there was a moth, a beautiful moth, and you have a thing with moths. I never had a thing with moths.

Speaker 2: 50:03

You didn't understand my thing.

Speaker 1: 50:04

Well, you know what I probably didn't have a thing with moths because I didn't notice. Yeah, yeah, I didn't, and maybe I wasn't ready to notice.

Speaker 2: 50:14

Exactly. The teacher comes when the student is ready.

Speaker 1: 50:18

And so this, this, this little, this moth, comes and sits like like literally right next to me and I'm like, hi, dad, that must be my dad. And I was like it's my dad, or tony, it's your mom or your dad. And I was like you know which one is it? And I'm like if I were saying that to some random fucking dude, chick, whatever, they'd be like mental health hospital, um, I'm, I'm going to need to, christine, I'm going to need to send her in.

Speaker 1: 50:54

Yeah, it's a moth where he was like oh yeah, maybe I bet, cause I bet I bet it's your dad, cause I and again I was talking about family things, yeah and so I was like oh my God, it's my dad holding space for me while I'm talking about it. I don't think that's weird at all. Thanks, moth Dad.

Speaker 2: 51:24

Well, now it's getting weird. I love our relationship now. Now, every time you see me, hey Dad, hey Dad, oh shit. And if you are a new listener, dad is dead not that that's funny.

Speaker 1: 51:40

No, it's not. Oh, it's the moth. It's that. I think he's a moth, right, that's what's funny. Yes, yes, but I, and, but, I, and I, I, I really do think he's, I really thought he probably was.

Speaker 2: 51:54

I know, I'm not even saying he probably was, that was your dad. It was, that was your dad, he was literally holding space for me. How many people.

Speaker 1: 52:02

Can you say that to Exactly my point, Exactly who can you tell that to when they're like? Okay, I'm going to leave now. I feel uncomfortable because she needs to be medicated.

Speaker 2: 52:17

Okay, so I want to really quickly go into why I don't recommend doing solo, even if you're experienced.

Speaker 1: 52:24

Okay.

Speaker 2: 52:25

And what I mean by that is exactly like the way that you and I have said, like we'll do it solo, but there's always someone with us who understands. And I do think we're very I don't want to say lucky or blessed, but I think it's a privilege that we have two partners who are in this space with us, because I recognize that not everybody has that, or sometimes it's like your partner that you're trying to heal from, but just sometimes having them in this in the area, and they also understand the medicine, to know that like, oh, she's going to need help. When she's done, I'm going to be there for them to help them. Help when she's done, I'm going to be there for them to help them. So those little things like make a big difference.

Speaker 2: 53:16

I, the few times, the one time that I was like completely by myself in my house all alone, you thought you were going to die. I thought I was dying. Yeah, I really did. I can't imagine being in that headspace right the entire time and feeling like I have no one to reach out to and no one to support. So I feel like, at the very fucking least, the very least, have someone know what you're doing. Like, again, I'm gonna, I'm gonna reiterate and I'm gonna say this again I don't recommend doing it solo. Yeah, 100 by yourself. I really don't. But if you'm going to say this again, I don't recommend doing it solo. Yeah, 100% by yourself. I really don't. But if you are going to be that person, at the very least have someone on standby, can we?

Speaker 1: 54:00

also talk about um, just in case, if you need it. Fireside project Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 54:06

Okay, what are they? The fireside Project is a nonprofit, free organization who offers support 24-7 to anyone who is experiencing a challenging psychedelic experience, and you can text or call them.

Speaker 1: 54:25

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and isn't the number literally just Fireside Project? Is that what you're trying to do and you couldn't get into?

Speaker 2: 54:29

my phone, literally Okay, because I was trying to find the number. Literally just Fireside Project.

Speaker 1: 54:30

Is that what you're trying to do?

Speaker 2: 54:31

and you couldn't get into my phone, literally Okay.

Speaker 1: 54:32

Because I was trying to find the number.

Speaker 2: 54:36

The Fireside Project.

Speaker 1: 54:37

I think it's literally Fireside Project or it's Fireside, it's something.

Speaker 2: 54:45

Yeah, it's a psychedelic support line that provides emotional support during and after you call or text 6 to Fireside.

Speaker 1: 54:55

OK 6 to Fireside. I was like I knew it had something with Fireside.

Speaker 2: 54:59

And I was wrong. They used to be 24 hours. Now it says open every day 11 am to 11 pm. Ok, that's still pretty good so you can call or text someone. Oh, I really like their whole website. They've changed. They've changed and that's okay.

Speaker 1: 55:17

They've evolved and we love it.

Speaker 2: 55:21

This literally on their website front page. Don't go solo I love that Do not journey at a moderate to high dose without a sober friend nearby who can provide a supportive grounding presence.

Speaker 1: 55:35

God we're so good. Look at us. Just what we said. Who would have thought? Who would have thought, not me, not me.

Speaker 2: 55:44

On that note. On that note I really think listen again. We are not meant to do life solo. We're not. So at the very least, have a little bit of support. Have a trip sitter with you who knows what they're doing. If it can't be a guide, have a sitter yeah can't be a sitter. Have a friend who checks as many of those boxes.

Speaker 1: 56:10

yeah, and if you um this episode was beneficial to you or it could be beneficial to someone you know who is interested in the space, send it to them please, cause I feel like this is very informative.

Speaker 2: 56:23

Yes, for sure.

Speaker 1: 56:25

All right, all right, let's wrap it up.

Speaker 2: 56:28

All of our listeners hope you're being safe. Be open, stay curious, we'll see you on the other side. Bye, always different.