85 | Moms on Mushrooms (with Tracey Tee)

How can moms benefit from psychedelics? In this episode, we invite Tracey, the founder of Moms on Mushrooms, to share her remarkable journey from skepticism to a profound spiritual awakening through psilocybin mushrooms. Tracey recounts her life-altering camping trip that introduced her to the healing potential of psychedelics, helping her navigate the challenges of stage four endometriosis and surgical menopause. Her candid narrative reveals how microdosing became a cornerstone of her physical and emotional recovery, illuminating the therapeutic promise of psilocybin.

We also explore the pivotal role women and mothers can play in fostering healing within their families. We discuss the importance of leading by example and the power of self-improvement to inspire change in loved ones, even amid adversity like addiction. We delve into the public scrutiny faced by mothers advocating for psychedelics, sharing Tracy's poignant experiences with media, including a contentious appearance on Dr. Phil. Tracey’s story is a testament to the power of staying true to one's message despite criticism, ultimately reaching those who might benefit most from her advocacy.

Finally, we dive into the societal challenges of emotional suppression, especially among women, and the importance of allowing oneself to feel and release emotions. Tracey offers insights on balancing microdosing and larger doses of psychedelics, responsible drug education for children, and fostering open conversations with teenagers about substance use. Learn about the supportive community of Moms on Mushrooms, which empowers women through education and shared experiences, helping them integrate psychedelics into their lives safely and effectively. Tune in to uncover the dynamic intersection of psychedelics, motherhood, and personal healing.

Find MOMS here: https://www.momsonmushrooms.com/

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:20

All right, um, let's do this.

Speaker 2: 0:23

Let's get into it. Tracy, thank you so much for coming on Um. You are the creator of moms on mushrooms and I just I want to, so I started. I think my first large um journey with mushrooms was in 2022, 22. Yeah, Okay, so it's been two years now and you are one of the first people who I started following. Who is another like psychonaut mom in this space. So, first and foremost, I just want to thank you for being so open and vulnerable and sharing your story, because it's helped us to then share our stories as well. So just want to say that, but thank you for being here, Thank you.

Speaker 3: 1:12

I said thank you, Like you said that to me.

Speaker 1: 1:15

I thank the medicine and yeah, that's amazing. I love hearing that.

Speaker 2: 1:21

Yeah. So I guess my first question is like how did you get started in this space, Like what brought you in this space?

Speaker 1: 1:32

Yeah, well, it wasn't because I wanted to be here.

Speaker 2: 1:35

I can tell you how it starts. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:39

Sounds like a terrible idea to do this, like no, no, no, um. So I was very much the reluctant I you know it's funny to be woo, I'll just start out being very well, but I've like a lot of Chiron in my chart, so I'm I'm very like, I identify deeply with the wounded healer and, um, so I didn't ever think that this was in my path and I had no choice and so I came here. Because I came here by way of a live comedy show, a live entertainment business that I had for almost a decade with my best friend and business partner that we lost during COVID. And in that grief, along with everything else, with the lockdowns and all the ridiculousness of the world, I found myself in the middle of a very deep spiritual journey being called to plant medicine and being and wondering, like I don't think that this is for me, like how the heck am I going to do that? I can't, I'm not going to go to the Amazon rainforest, I can't just take two weeks and go to Bali and just study. Like those things aren't realistic and I've never done drugs. So, like you know, I didn't know why I was calling this. So I studied psilocybin, specifically in ayahuasca, for a long time.

Speaker 1: 2:57

Like I remember, I went in 2018 and like went by myself to go watch Paul Stamets speak. It was me, and I've always loved mushrooms, like all kinds of mushrooms, and so, as I look back, I see that the like, the signs were kind of guiding me to this moment and I finally started microdosing. Well, actually, then I went on a camping trip with my best friend and business partner. She called me in the summer and she was like a bunch of us are going to go to this lake in Boulder and go camping. It's all moms, women, and you're going to put on your big girl pants and you're going to do some shrooms. And I was like, okay, I love that. So much.

Speaker 1: 3:40

Yeah, it was amazing, and so when I was driving up there, I was like, if this is the experience that I said to be, it may be a shit for me. And it absolutely was. It was like the best night we left. I saw like every symbol ever written. I saw the grid over the earth. I reaffirmed my connection with God.

Speaker 1: 4:01

I felt like all the things happened. Just, I don't even know how much. I took like okay, just like ate some shrooms, and we like chased it with Skittles, like totally and um and uh, but I, just I was like this is it, like this is it, and just. And then we camped and my girlfriend and I were in her camper and I just remember going to bed that night and we just were like just in, like in such deep gratitude not intentionally, just like was pouring out of us. We just talked about how much we loved our family and how grateful we are for our husbands and for each other. And I just remember, like going to sleep, smiling and waking up with my mouth hurting and I was just like what was that? And um, and so that was I was hooked. And I remember calling my mother on the way back home, the like last person on the planet who I would have thought I would have called like very never done drugs, and I was like, mom, this just happened and this changed my life and I had also just some backstory.

Speaker 1: 5:04

I have a history. I've had a history of stage four endometriosis since I was like 25 years old, um, I've had a billion surgeries, um, and finally culminated in having to have a full hysterectomy when I was 41, like all my parts, everything taken cervix, fallopian tubes, uterus, ov, ovaries, all I got nothing. And in that and it was because I was like medically compromised at that point with all the adhesions, but my functional medicine doctor actually wisely, I believe put me on Welbutrin to transition into, because when you get everything taken out for a full hysterectomy, you go into surgical menopause. So I literally walked a normal healthy 41-year-old and woke up the next day and flashed it as soon as it happened. So I had instant menopause and it was debilitating and the Welbutrin really helped what I'm sure would have been insane mood swings, and so I was super grateful to be on it. But I was like when do I get off? What am I like without it? What's going to happen? And so after that journey, microdosing really just made a lot of sense and I actually talked to her about it and she was like I think you should do it, I just can't tell you anything else. And so I started and I just felt like my life just go like this. And after working with it for quite a while almost a full year, and I microdosed five days on two days off, religiously, like for nine months straight, and I just felt healing, healing, navigating, the loss of our business, navigating all of the things with continued COVID. I felt like things weren't sticking to me. They were just kind of coming up and out.

Speaker 1: 6:51

And then, almost a year later, almost to the day, my family, my daughter, our niece, who is 18, and my husband, are driving outside Aspen, colorado, and at 11am on a Monday morning we got hit by a drug driver and got sideswiped. We flew into a like a barrier, flew 30 feet in a ditch and landed in a ditch in the mountains and had to like pull our kids out. I was like kicking the doors. I don't know. I honestly don't know how we survived. Like I felt when we were flying. I felt hands go on the car and just like sit us down. And even the EMTs, when they arrived, they were like we don't know how you guys are walking, um, and we were all really injured, did walk away and you know the the, the ongoing recovery from that. I mean I was bruised from head to toe, like black and blue, lying in bed. I I even even 48 hours later I could feel it coming up and out and I knew it and I think, like as we progress through our healing, navigating the trauma, this happened to my daughter and my. My daughter walked out and had black and blue all in her stomach from the, from the seatbelt, and like collapsed in the grass and just you know what happened to her. I just was feeling like it wasn't sticking to me and, um, so it was like this constant confirmation that this medicine was like working in real time and I was seeing it happen.

Speaker 1: 8:27

And then, because of my daughter and my family and the trauma, I was like looking for a therapist, but good luck finding a child psychologist in 2021. Like people wouldn't even call me back, like they won't even answer the phone, oh my God. And so I was desperate to find someone for her to talk to and, through a myriad of like bizarre circumstances, was led to this woman who was really hard to get ahold of. She doesn't answer the phone very much, but she works with kids and she's a shaman, and my daughter worked with her one time, just like talk therapy, and walked out and was like I'm good, I got it, I get it, I'm released. It was amazing. I went good, I got it, I get it, I'm released. It was amazing. I went in and spoke with her, we talked about the accident for about 20 minutes and then the rest was about plant medicine and different things, and two months later I was on the floor with three and a half grams of penis envy down my throat and that was the beginning of Moms on Mushrooms. That was the beginning of Moms on Mushrooms Because after that I was shown that this medicine is for not only for me, but for mothers specifically, and that it is time to bring us together, like through this medicine and afterwards during integration.

Speaker 1: 9:38

I was just meditating and Moms on Mushrooms MOM just sort of like landed in my head and I shut up and I was like, well, that's genius.

Speaker 1: 9:48

I mean, certainly someone's done.

Speaker 1: 9:51

It wasn't me, it was not me.

Speaker 1: 9:53

And so I like ran to the computer and looked for the URL and it was there and I was just like shut up and um, and it took a lot of prayer and a lot of crying and a lot of saying no, and then it just was so obvious that and then I really saw the path of like what we were doing with our comedy show, because our comedy show was for mothers and bringing moms together to laugh about the things we have in common, and, having heard mother stories and the evolution of motherhood in this modern age for the last 10 years, I like it, like I really know what mothers are struggling with, because I was there, I was listening to stories and I was just sort of shown that what we were doing with comedy it's time now to make it get serious and actually start talking.

Speaker 1: 10:36

And this medicine is the conduit, it's the web to bring us back together to create that community we're missing, to create the vulnerability that we don't know how to access. Together to create that community we're missing. To create the vulnerability that we don't know how to access to actually tap into true happiness. That we have to learn. We have to learn that, and this is the way. And so I just started and just started, mom.

Speaker 3: 12:12

The fact that it's like I remember when we found you too, or when I, when we found you, I was like that is genius, m O, m, s, like moms on mushrooms, like why didn't I fucking think of that? It's one of those like aha moments. Um, I'm going to edit this part out, but I'm going to say is there someone like hammering in your?

Speaker 1: 12:34

room. Is it bad? It's.

Speaker 2: 12:36

We're getting a new roof, oh okay, I just wanted to make sure.

Speaker 3: 12:39

I was like either somebody's playing basketball next door.

Speaker 1: 12:43

I was just on a call and I was testing it to see if they could hear it and it got like really loud.

Speaker 3: 12:48

Now they stopped but yeah, they stopped. Is it really bad In?

Speaker 2: 12:52

moments it is, and then can you edit that out.

Speaker 3: 12:56

I don't know can try okay. Okay, I can try with the sound engineer or anything me.

Speaker 1: 13:03

Okay, I'm so sorry.

Speaker 3: 13:06

It's okay, you didn't hear it there's a, there's an app that I can run it through. That'll hopefully okay get it out, it's some it comes and goes. It's weird. So now that it's not here just, they just stopped yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:17

It was like so loud when I was talking and you had.

Speaker 2: 13:20

you were saying a lot of great stuff. I'm like shut up, I was like who is?

Speaker 3: 13:26

that makes a lot of sense. Um, okay, so that's how moms came about, which is wild and you talked about like the wounded healer. It's so funny because I think so many people and maybe not anymore but like 2020 was like the catalyst for a lot of people and that was the year like I met a shaman and she said I was a healer. And I was like what the fuck? Like I'm so fucking broken, like what does that even mean? I'm so broken.

Speaker 1: 13:50

Right Like how am.

Speaker 3: 13:51

I supposed to heal people? Like what does that even mean? And then mushrooms happened in June and then it was like after that, like that was it sounds like we're on the same trajectory. Like holy shit, why is no one talking about this? This is like what we need, and I also think the fact that, like your group, is specifically geared and catered towards mothers is huge, because I think I think I've said this in an episode before but a lot of women come to me and they're like my husband's this and my husband's that and my husband's this and he needs to do mushrooms.

Speaker 3: 14:29

And I'm like or you do it first, like or cause. That's how it started in my family. Like, my husband was an alcoholic and an addict and I did the journey first and I started healing first and I was able to hold space for him when he started. And I think moms, in that way, women, are so much more powerful than we were taught and we are the ones who are able to start this healing journey and hold space for other people when they are, and I think that's why it's important that it's like well, this is why it's for moms, this is why it's for women, this is why and now that you said that, like I was the one who started it in my family, and then, a year later, my partner saw the changes over the course of a year and then he decided to do it too, so that's a really good point.

Speaker 1: 15:24

Yeah, which is you know gosh. I mean there's so much there. Like I feel like it's almost cliche that I'm in that, like I almost call it like graduate class of 2020. Like those of us who just were like bing everything's different, and we were both.

Speaker 2: 15:38

we owned businesses as well and closed our businesses and went through like a really rough time during COVID.

Speaker 1: 15:45

Yeah, and then real rough times. Yeah, had nothing to do with COVID, but everything to do with whatever the fuck that was.

Speaker 3: 15:52

We're like you guys are still talking about COVID, Like my life is falling apart.

Speaker 2: 16:01

I was like the least, my, my, my least fear is having a fever right now Um yeah, so I, um, no, I totally agree.

Speaker 1: 16:07

And then and then it really just goes to show like Gandhi was right, like be the change, you know, and and lead by example is something I come back to, like when I feel triggered, or what if I'm frustrated that someone isn't getting me or getting this medicine or is hesitant. I come back to like when I feel triggered or if I'm frustrated that someone isn't getting me or getting this medicine or is hesitant. I'm just like all I have to do is walk the walk. All I have to do is show up in the space and like with the values that I have like devoted myself to, and if you have eyes to see and ears to hear, you will, and if you don't, that's not.

Speaker 1: 16:35

We're in, our paths weren't supposed to cross and it it makes things like very easy and like really disappointing and difficult at the same time, because you get you a lot doesn't work out in your favor when you, when you show up like that, but it for me, it just took the pressure off having to just scream from a mountaintop and just especially in my personal life and you know the same thing, like my husband ended up doing a journey, you know he he microdosed and he gets it and he supports it and um, but I don't have to, I don't have to make people change. This is not my, it's not the point. You just gotta, you just gotta do it. You just gotta do your thing, yeah, be the change.

Speaker 2: 17:16

Well, and it kind of leads me to my next point, which is you're doing the Lord's work right now, because we have seen you on Dr Phil, we've seen you on Fox news, we've seen you on, um, what good morning America. So many interviews and I love that you are the one who's like really getting out there and talking about it. But but it's, it's frustrating to watch the statements that people make or the questions that people ask you in those interviews. Like you know, do you think you're setting a good example for your daughter? Like is, are you a good mom? Or um, one woman is like well, what if you get addicted? Yeah, what if you get addicted? Are you, are you a good mom? Or um, one woman is like, well, what if you get addicted? Yeah, what if you get addicted? Are you? Did you microdose today before coming on this interview?

Speaker 2: 18:02

So, like the assumption that you're like fucked up, or just people who really don't know or understand the medicine, stereotyping you or labeling you, or making assumptions, especially showing up and talking about this as a mother, there's, there's a lot of stigmas to break. How do you handle that? Because for me, I'd be like shut up, shut the fuck up, watch your mouth. You don't even know, right, yeah, and you, you do. You handle it with such elegance and grace and and the conversation does need to be had.

Speaker 1: 18:38

And yeah, thank you, I appreciate that. I um I, you know, with all my wounded healer, I'm also a triple air. I don't know why I'm talking about my chart, so much.

Speaker 3: 18:48

I'm also a triple.

Speaker 1: 18:49

Aries. So you know, reactive, I am a warrior. You know a Ram and I have lived that energy my whole life. And, um, you know a Ram and I have lived that energy my whole life. And, um, you know, injustice or or non-truths, like are something that just can set me off, but I think, so I all that to say is thank you. And also it's the shrooms, shrooms talking like we literally have a sticker at mom. This is thanks. It's the shrooms, because I say it so much and it's, you know, it's pithy and it's not totally true.

Speaker 1: 19:21

I do a lot of work, but like it's the shrooms and, and what I have have been shown again is like my, when my heart just cracked open, I was just I understood what grace and compassion like really means. And so every interview and I've never had a publicist, you know I all of that happened naturally, and I think it was just a matter of like, right place, right time and whatever. That's my Dharmic path. I guess it's not anything that I wanted, but I I I never really got triggered because before every single interview I just I would tell the people I was working with like thank you for having me, like, thank you for at least letting the story be told, and I had to just trust that, no matter how it went and it was a little hard on Dr Phil, like I have to say. I was a little concerned after we finished that taping, but and I'll tell you a funny story about that but no matter how it goes, I know in my heart, because this is what's happening to women, especially right now, in this moment those with ears to hear, they will read, they will see it, they will see me talking and no matter how it's presented, they'll get it.

Speaker 1: 20:31

And that's the only mom I'm talking to. I don't need to convince haters I can't. And I don't need to convince haters I can't. And psychedelics aren't right for everyone. And I don't need to convince those people that they're wrong because they're on their own path. So all I need to do is talk to the mom who is at her wits end, who has tried everything, whose soul is screaming that there's something better out there, that she knows like deep in her DNA that this isn't the way. That's the mom I talked to, and so if you're going to be like a arrogant news host that's misinformed and is looking for a clickbait, like I'll take it, it just doesn't bother me, because I'm just grateful to be able to share the story yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:15

And to the point of Dr Phil really quick. The you know. We left and that was kind of like a complete. I was very I did not know that the show wasn't presented that way, that it was going to just be about me and being a bad mother, like that's. I was supposed to just come on and be a voice about microdosing on a psychedelic panel and it turned. It was like completely blindsided and so when I left I was like what my life is over, Went to the airport like literally got in a car and drove straight to the airport to go back to Denver.

Speaker 1: 21:53

It was just so fast. There was no time to think I was at the airport eating. I hadn't eaten all day. They gave us no food. I was there at 5am, so it was like 4 PM. At that point I was like gorging a hamburger and, admittedly, a very large glass of wine, because I was just so shaken. And, um, I looked at my phone and two women in the audience had already found me and were like thank you, we had no idea what this was about. This is everything. You changed my life. I've actually been working with microdosing but was too afraid to talk about it and they you didn't deserve what you got and I was like done, we're done, it's already worth it. I would go back again.

Speaker 3: 22:29

So Holy shit, I love.

Speaker 2: 22:31

I love that perspective because even you know I the the whole like oh uh, drugs kill 120,000, 120,000 people a year and you're like okay but what drugs right?

Speaker 2: 22:44

Like that's and then again it's, it's, and then you're like you know, you talk about alcohol and and like I felt I was like, oh my God, I feel like she's getting like gas lit this whole time. So like to hear that you got two people from the audience is huge and for us, you know, we we've definitely gotten pushback and and gotten hate and like other moms who think like we're just, you know, doing this and getting fucked up and then like hanging out with our kids and and so I love that like kind of you're the, you're the voice of all of us on that level.

Speaker 1: 23:16

Yeah, you're the voice too, it's. It's not just me, I mean, you're, you're, you're showing up and you're proving. You're proving something different. You know and we have a. You know, we have almost, we have half of a gender. We have half of a century of misinformation rammed down our throats, culturally, at the federal level, like from presidents talking about this medicine. So there is decades and decades of fear and misinformation folded into everyone's reaction.

Speaker 3: 23:51

So all we can do is just prove them wrong. Right, that's all we can do. And I think we were talking about this earlier, like with the reason we said you're doing the Lord's work, because we kind of forget, like we have this community bubble of people who get what we're saying, who believe in what we're doing, who also do what we do, and that's our audience, that's our community. But then you're going out here and reminding us that not everybody feels this way and not everybody thinks this way, and there's still so much misinformation out there that I I tend to forget that, like my little bubble is not the norm. So, yeah, we'd love to go up against it.

Speaker 1: 24:34

People. Another cultural thing I think we're unlearning is people just want to see moms miserable. I don't think it's intentional. I think we've just gotten really used to the sad mom and that's our stasis.

Speaker 3: 24:50

It's just what we do. It's who we are. Yeah, you can take your pills.

Speaker 1: 24:54

You can have your wine, playdates. You can take your Valium, you can drink your martini in the middle of the afternoon. We'll put chloroform over you while you birth your baby. There's this history of anesthetizing mothers and keeping us at a level that's just shy, of actually stepping into our power. We're kept sober enough where we can raise the children and do all the things, and it's fine to be a super mom and be skinny and gorgeous and multi-successful, and blah, blah, blah. But when you're truly empowered which I believe is actual happiness and the connection to spirit, when you tap into that, they're like oh no, now you're high, now you're messed up or you're misguided, or you've joined a cult, all the things to just keep us back down. And so that doesn't even have anything to do with the drugs. That's just, I think, unlearning what we're allowing mothers to be, and women, but especially moms.

Speaker 3: 25:52

You're right, that is a huge misconception because we're like, we don't do mushrooms all the time, like everybody thinks we do. Like it's it's really not like we're. We're every week. We're like, yeah, let's go get soaked up. Like it's it's never that. So, yeah, you're right, it's like it's what happens in between those doses. That really makes I don't know I don't want to speak for you or you, but like. It makes me feel like I'm doing the right thing. It's the moments in between dosing where I'm like I know I'm doing the right thing, because I would not be able to handle what's happening right now without the clarity that I have.

Speaker 1: 26:33

You're exactly right and sovereignty. You know your choices. You become aware of your values, what you care about, you, and you are clear Like you know your choices. You become aware of your values, what you care about you, and you are clear Like you know the the biggest irony. Irony is that we're like we're not numbed out at all, like the mushrooms are the opposite of numbing out, and if anyone just knew that, then it would just you couldn't even argue that as like a thing Cause it's you're you're more present than ever. That's why half the women in our community, when they start microdosing, they hate it, because they're just crying all the time, because you're feeling anxious and feeling anxious.

Speaker 2: 27:04

We get that, we get our angry yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:07

And so they want to.

Speaker 2: 27:08

They they, they want to stop, because they're like oh no, no, no, no, Like I can't stop crying and I'm like sounded like you needed to cry.

Speaker 3: 27:16

When was the last time you had a good cry?

Speaker 2: 27:18

Well, and I think we're a society of like take the pill, drink the drink, suppress the feelings, numb numb, numb, numb, numb. And so I guess my question is what would you say? The difference is Cause there's mommy wine culture.

Speaker 1: 27:37

Which I was a deep part of. Oh really, oh God, yeah, oh yeah, I mean my show was called the pump and I'm show like yeah, we did not know that been there Like yeah, okay, so what's your question?

Speaker 2: 27:53

So I was just going to say, like for people who have not done, have not microdosed, have not touched any type of psychedelic, but let's say they're heavy in mommy wine culture, what would you say the difference is between that culture and like moms on mushrooms?

Speaker 1: 28:12

Moms on mushrooms Awareness. I think both have the same motivation, which is this is hard, it's really hard, and I need to find a way to get through it. And and I need I need other moms to help me get through it. Right, like you have play dates so that your kids can play, so that you can hang out with moms and like, figure this shit out. You have book club for the same reason. You, we gather, we break bread together for that same reason to connect and to say to, to like check yourself before you wreck yourself against other people's experiences.

Speaker 1: 28:50

Right, this is what we do. This is why humans, it's a beautiful thing about us. And so the motivation is there and I don't fault it. And and the motivation for to release the pressure gauge, because it's a lot. And if you have no tools and no context and nobody's presented an alternative, of course you're going to drink a bottle of Chardonnay at three in the afternoon because you're rewarded for it. Nobody, nobody's going to tell you that's wrong Society. It Nobody, nobody's going to tell you that's wrong Society. Commercials, media TV everyone is going to be like girl mom parenting is hard and you deserve this wine.

Speaker 1: 29:27

And I get it, because you know what Booth does the trick. I mean it does Sometimes it really does the trick. It gets you out of your head and you can have some relief, and I get that. I think the difference is understanding that that is not sustainable in any way, and everyone on the planet knows that excessive drinking is not sustainable. You feel it not only in your body. You witness it in others. It doesn't work no-transcript.

Speaker 1: 30:04

And all of a sudden now, instead of leaving the world behind, you're stepping into the middle of the vortex and saying I'm ready to figure this out and I'm ready to claim sovereignty of my own life.

Speaker 1: 30:16

I'm here, I am me, I can do this, but you're doing it with every level in your head, it's not just in your heart and you're forgiving yourself for the things that are hard and you're forgiving yourself for having feelings and maybe even having depression. And at the same time, somehow and this is all combined with, like, a lot of intention and work right Like it's not a passive thing. And alcohol is passive, ssris are passive you take it and you sit down and you wait for it to change. If you do that with mushrooms. We all know nothing's going to happen. You're going to be like I don't People. You have to work with it. You have to want to change, and I think that's the difference, is the awareness of saying I'm here, I'm ready to change. That's not working. Whatever that is, and I want something that's better, because I just want to be like me, really me, and that's when it gets really hard.

Speaker 3: 31:15

Right, right. So I would even say for me, I was never part of the mommy wine culture, but I understood it. I think that since I found mushrooms, my community has changed, like my mom community group has changed, like the moms that I relate to are different than the other moms and I find it very hard to relate to the mommy wine culture the way that I used to and it's like we're on the same team. We're all moms. I get it. It's hard, but there, but exactly what you're saying, there's this intentionality with us doing what we do and saying we know it's hard, we recognize that and we're doing something about it and we're trying to become better moms because of it. And we recognize that it's hard across the board, but we want to make changes to make it a little bit easier.

Speaker 1: 32:14

And I'm going to hold you accountable, I'm going to help you and support you, but I'm going to like, I'm not going to encourage you to continue down the path of least resistance, I'm going to hold you to your highest self. And that's what I find, like you know, when you kind of come out of that and move into friends do change, it's hard, it's hard to lose friends. Old friends don't understand you, you don't understand yourself. And then I do think I say this all the time and I can give another fun story about this but like, and now it's like, you know, because your third eye is right, your pineal gland, glands to calcify, and like your intuition is legit, coming back online, like you are, we say, waking up and kind of this, like global sense, but there's actual physiological, like your, your, your intuition is becoming, you are becoming more discerning, and so I will just see women and I'll just be like you.

Speaker 1: 33:50

I know people, I know you, I know what you're up to. Got it, you know, you just know.

Speaker 2: 33:54

Right, Right. So people see you, people see me, people see Leah, and they say see where we are now, but we are such a society that is, um, deeply conditioned to numb and and and to not feel things. And so, going back to the microdosing, and then people who reach out to us and they're like oh my God, I couldn't stop crying, or oh my gosh, I'm like so angry. And they don't. What advice would you give to someone like that, who wants to just stop because they're starting to feel and we're, we're conditioned to not feel?

Speaker 1: 34:31

Yeah, um, I would say that you have permission to be uncomfortable and we don't. We are also very resistant, in America specifically, to being uncomfortable in any way. Right, we all have heated homes, air conditioning, access to clean water, food within seconds there's abundance everywhere. There's not a lot of uncomfortability in our lives and emotions have been commodified. You either go to your shrink and you talk about it there, or you have a period of depression and everyone kind of tiptoes around you, or you're just that emotional person and you're labeled as someone who has feelings and like a little bit crazy. And you're labeled as someone who has feelings and like a little bit crazy, and so you have to. You have to give yourself permission to feel your feelings, and there's a lot of self judgment that comes with that, and then it's not fun. So it's it's addressing your resistance to to being uncomfortable, it's addressing your resistance to change, and then it's um, really saying and then, and then it's trusting that on the that you're going to come through on the other side, because the other problem is and this is not you know, I'm sure you guys agree and we all kind of say this like SSRIs have their place. They are very helpful for a lot of people, but I think for a limited time.

Speaker 1: 35:58

But what we've gone to is is that the minute and this is very, this is this is very potent for women postpartum the minute someone starts to go up. If we're going on a scale of one to 10 and a woman is like at a seven or eight, here's your pills. Nope, we're stopping you right now. We are not going to let you go to a 10. We don't want to see it, we don't want to address it, we don't and and and and.

Speaker 1: 36:21

There's fear that if you go past the 10, there's like you're going past a point of no return. But the truth is is you get to a 10 and then all of a sudden you go back down to a three because you let it out, and you don't know that, because we've never been taught that. We've been taught that we're hysterical and that that is the pinnacle of of what you can do. And so you have to just hold space for women who are crying and say keep going and you're going to live like you're going to live, you know? And of course there are outliers and of course there's clinical depression, and of course there are, there are, there are, but the majority of people who have not had a good cry. And I talked to women in their 60s and 70s who say I don't remember the last time I've cried and I don't remember the last time I laughed. I don't remember the last time I laughed.

Speaker 2: 37:10

We were just talking about this before you came on, about knowing somebody who's like oh, I couldn't tell you the last time I cried. I don't think I ever saw my mom cry.

Speaker 3: 37:23

And I cry daily and I also cry in front of my kids and I also. There have been times that, like my husband and I are having a hard financial conversation and I'm just in tears and he just knows that like it's just an emotion now, Like it used to be, like what's wrong? Why don't you want to talk about this? I'm like, listen, finances are a hard conversation and I'm having an emotional reaction to it.

Speaker 3: 37:50

You can keep talking, I'm going to keep listening, but I'm also going to keep crying and it's okay, like it's just an emotion, like it's not a big deal. So that's how we are with the body.

Speaker 1: 38:02

Your body needs to release it. It's stressors. I mean, we're learning so much and so if you don't remember the last time you've cried or laughed like what is that doing to yourself? You know, like it's, it's compacting. I mean, we know that you have to make up sleep, right, we know that if you, if you are sleep deprived, like you actually bank sleep, so you have to make it up Like why wouldn't that apply to anything else, like emotions?

Speaker 3: 38:25

So someone who and I know the answer to this, but I want to hear it from you. I have my own answer for this. Someone who hasn't had a good cry, or who doesn't let emotions out, or who suppresses and numbs and keeps it all in.

Speaker 1: 38:45

How are some of the ways that that shows up in their life that are unhealthy. Well, first, I think that, easily triggered, you can't deal with the small things because, again, that's like that compounding effect, um so like. So you trip, you trip over the carpet and it's easy to go into victimhood. You know it's the carpet's fault, you know, uh, uh, this is the worst day on ever. Um, it's easy to cast blame externally to, and then that's like rage and it's like it's an effort to get that out of you. Right, that, and but you, what you need to do is and I just did this I tripped on a stair.

Speaker 1: 39:28

I was carrying a box removing and I was carrying a box outside and I was tired and I tripped down the stairs and I fell and I like somehow like ricocheted like in between a door and it was like really sad and I fell and I just it hurt so bad and I was on the on the garage floor and I just was like and I had like a total temper tantrum and I just cried like a kid and I sat there for like five minutes and I just cried and then I got up and went inside and no one knew because I just let myself cry. I didn't have to be stoic about it. It was dumb and it hurt and it was embarrassed for myself and I just needed to cry. I didn't have to be stoic about it. It was dumb and it hurt and it was embarrassed for myself and I just needed to cry. I love that and it's probably why I tripped.

Speaker 1: 40:06

I probably needed to cry the minute I woke up, you know. But we need to get this out of her. I need to get it out. So I don't know if I'm probably making a really long answer, but is that?

Speaker 3: 40:19

did I answer yeah, and I also think like when you do that, sometimes the anxiety shows up. So, like what you're saying, like the little things that trigger someone, that like sets them off, like they would probably say oh, that's just my anxiety.

Speaker 1: 40:34

And then we move in. This is the second thing, thank you for reminding me. Then we, then we move into, like the glorification of anxiety, the glorification of worry, and we wear especially women, especially mothers this martyrdom idea that like, well, I'm just a worry wart, I'm just a mother hen, I worry. It's this glorification of a trauma loop, and so you wear your defenses as a badge of honor because you're so scared to fucking cry.

Speaker 3: 41:07

Holy shit, I mean that you're right.

Speaker 2: 41:11

Yeah, and I do. I feel like too. Like men can feel anger all day long. It's very normalized. But if a woman is angry, if a woman is sad, um, it's. We have a hard time holding, holding space for women, and I find that to be very interesting, like if a woman is like, women can't be angry, no, or we're crazy.

Speaker 1: 41:37

Yeah, you're, and yeah you're, it's very and you know, I think let's give, let's give humans like some grace, right, like it's heartbreaking to see a sad woman, like truly it's heartbreaking to see a woman in pain, because we are yin, we are heart, energy, and so when you see that breaking, we have a visceral reaction to it. And what we've done and I think this is probably like the age of like science and industrialism is we've tried to fix it. We were in our masculine, so we're like, okay, she's sad, we got to fix it, we got to make her unsad. And the motive there is is perfectly genuine is is we took it way too far and we just created like robots and we became fearful of the thing that is our superpower, which is feelings, but we just have to let it out. And so it's. It's not like.

Speaker 1: 42:29

You know, I, I certainly I think there's been a, I think the patriarchy is real, I think a lot of damage has been done to women. I think I think also, well, while it might be heartbreaking to see a sad woman, it is terrifying to see a powerful woman, because there is deep power, deep power that comes from the ability to create life. I mean, of course that's intimidating. So there's obviously been, I think, efforts to tamp that down. Yeah, but you're right. But some of it is just we don't have any tools, we weren't given the tools, and so it's just a misunderstanding and there's fear on both ends. There's fear on expressing emotion and then there's fear of witnessing emotion.

Speaker 3: 43:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 43:15

Oh, my God. So so you talked about. The first time that you did a journey was three and a half grams. Have you done more large journey since, and have you dabbled with other psychedelics?

Speaker 1: 43:28

I'm just sticking with shrooms right now, okay. And cannabis I've actually had some really profound, really profound psychedelic ceremonies with cannabis and breath work that have profoundly changed me in ways that mushrooms haven't, and um really created a deep deep. I was actually just talking to my daughter about this while I was cooling her hair. It's a long story. She's like she's like I know, mom, you've told me about cannabis, but like um, I was like like just want you to understand, because she was asking about. I was like like just want you to understand, cause she was asking about. She was asking about like what are opioids? And so I was like trying to explain the differences. But so anyway, I've I've really found a real respect for cannabis in a sacred way, and I actually feel bad that I never even considered it to be a sacred plant medicine in the way I consider mushrooms, um, but otherwise no.

Speaker 1: 44:20

And have I done more? I think so. Sometimes my guide, she just intuitively throws it in the tea and I don't really know what I have. So it's hard to say and I always say I'm brought up by medicine women, that's how I'm being raised and that's where my training is, and a lot of that is just intuitive and there's not a lot of like discussion, and for me it's a real exercise in deep trust and surrender to just like take what I'm given and know that that woman is here for my highest and best, and so I just don't ask. I love that, but yeah, and I've also had profound journeys on like one and a half grams, you know Right, I think I'm just like I was. I did a journey and I was on the floor crying, of course, of course.

Speaker 3: 45:08

I looked up at her and I go.

Speaker 1: 45:10

I was like bawling and I go. I think I'm just put on this planet to take mushrooms.

Speaker 3: 45:17

I mean well, so I don't know. Do you know much about human design Like what you're?

Speaker 1: 45:23

manifesting generator. Okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 3: 45:25

What is your profile? Or what is your energy type? Sacral, or are you a? What are your numbers? The numbers, personality type I think I'm a four, six, okay, so it's a four six. Um, it's like a people person in the wise stage, I think, or people person might be too. Anyway, I got to look that one up. We were asking. I'm asking this because Christine and I are three fives and we both are experimenters and liberators.

Speaker 3: 45:52

So when you're going to tell us something is going to work for us, we're going to be like I want to try it. So, but I'm saying that because we have dabbled in so many different modalities and psychedelics. But we always say but mushrooms are our favorite and mushrooms are home to us.

Speaker 3: 46:12

They will always be home to us. It will always be the thing that I trust the most, um, and it's always going to be the thing that I have. I have a little bit of an easier access to mushrooms. I can't always go and do an ayahuasca journey I can't, you know, go, and it's just. It's easier for us to access it too. But even if it weren't, I feel like it would still be home to us.

Speaker 1: 46:37

So I love that you're saying that, because well, I love that that you guys stay home, because there is sometimes, there's always that point when you're kind of just have taken the medicine and you're just like, well, what am I doing Again? It's so exhausting. Yeah, I believe I'm doing this again. What was I thinking, I know? And then there's this point where I'm like, oh, I'm home. Where I'm like, oh, I'm home, yes, I'm home. And I think if you, if you view our statements from a religious context or from an external context, it can be, it can be very triggering or feel very fake or even dangerous to make that statement, and even my like, having grown up in a Christian home, and and like it feels like we shouldn't be allowed to say that an external substance can bring us home. But then you but that is part of like kind of understanding your own sovereignty and just understanding your truth and standing in that truth and saying it. That is actually the truth and that's hard. I think it's hard to get there.

Speaker 3: 47:44

I think the way that I have tried to explain it to people is, like you know, and my husband has said this too, when he does a large dose, it removes all the shit that he has going on in his life, in his head, like all the bad stuff is just kind of like lifted and he's just able to be.

Speaker 1: 48:05

And so.

Speaker 3: 48:05

I've said this to people. I'm like when I say home, I mean all the external stuff, all the shit storm that I'm living in just goes away and I'm reminded of who I am, and I'm reminded of who I am and I'm reminded that all that other stuff is just stuff and it has nothing to do with who I am. So when I say it brings me back home, when I come out of it, and I'm sure you can say the same thing, but like for months afterwards, I am like clear on who I am.

Speaker 3: 48:42

Yeah, and I can also see how people can lose sight of that if they don't continue to do the work or the integration or have a relationship with the medicine.

Speaker 1: 48:55

Yeah, and one thing too I think I love that you're saying like it gets away with all the shit, but also sometimes, you know, especially in kind of the lower dose range, I find that it just allows me to be home with my thoughts, like I think I have like big thinking, because I'm not censoring myself, I'm not cluttered and I'm just like I'm working it out.

Speaker 1: 49:14

You know, I'm like making decisions and like I'm working with my mind, truly, but, yeah, but I think if you don't have a relationship, all of that can be incredibly destabilizing and very scary, which is why I personally think that, especially for mothers, given everything we just talked about the fear, the misinformation, the busyness, the overwhelm, the whatever I think starting with low doses and feeling it in your body and creating a relationship with the medicine, and then moving on to the large dose journeys, which I think are profoundly necessary, but not don't just do it in the way that you're going to start a new diet and wait for your life to change in a week, like it's really can mess you up if you're not walking into it prepared and with an understanding of what you're working with. And that's why I think microdosing is really beautiful because you can sense those energies, you can sense that change and you can experience it. You can cry for a month and understand it. So then, when you're crying for eight hours straight or laughing, you know, it's not so shocking. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 50:18

Yeah, you talked earlier about talking to your daughter about this. I was going to put a pin in that and come back Um yeah, my son is four, so I have not, I have not talked to him about no need right my mushroom use, but I do have stepdaughters, um, who are 18 and 21. And we have open conversations to the point where, like, my hope is that one day they do it. So I guess what my question is is like what advice do you have? How did you start talking to her about it?

Speaker 1: 50:53

Yeah, well, you know, it was really my husband and I both, and I'm in, we live in Denver, so there's a dispensary, yeah, so it's like it helps, right Cause there's a dispensary on every corner. So as soon as she could start to read, she's like what's, you know, what's the green monster cannabis company, you know? She's seeing some giant billboard, you know. So we had to address it because you can read and we're driving, and so there's that and and then I, you know, I, I had, I think I started drinking probably when I was like 14 or 15, and so she raised around alcohol.

Speaker 1: 51:33

My family, you know, no one, you know we just were big eaters, we're big family, there's wine, and that's how she grew up and and so we were just like she's been going to the liquor store since she was a baby and is around all this and we never shied away. Now we really work hard not to get too tipsy or alter our state around her, because I think that's really scary for kids and it's concerning, and I have done it and it's a lot of regret that I have and I think a lot of what microdosing has helped me kind of heal, but um, we just were like, well, we talked to her about this stuff, so why wouldn't we talk to her about mushrooms? And more importantly, this is the point, right, like this is how we change. This is how we change because if I can raise her not being fearful of it and understanding the truth and showing her and leading by example, then when she's at a party and it's between like alcohol, cannabis or mushrooms you know where I sit I'm like maybe don't do any of it, but please take the mushroom, don't, please don't drink, don't even know what's in it. These days, who knows what the you know? Please don't drink. Don't even know what's in it. These days, who knows what the? You know the THC is so strong it can really mess you up and like you can, yeah, you know, so I and, and beyond that, even just showing that, like showing plants as medicine, and so that's what.

Speaker 1: 52:54

When we were talking about today, while I was curling your hair, she's like you just left talking about drugs. I was like no, I loved she's 13. So like it. Also, let me just say, if you want the best anti-drug policy ever, like, just talk to your kids about drugs and like do it yourself. They'll never. She has no desire, no interest. So if you really want, if that's your goal, just just act like it's cool and like you're not wrong.

Speaker 3: 53:25

My 16 year old is like that. Like the amount of times I've been like, you know, I, I, I eat an edible every now and then, right, and he's like, yeah, mom, you've told me yeah. And I'm like, oh my god I know about still seven.

Speaker 1: 53:34

The other day I was telling her about 5-htp receptors and serotonin uptake inhibitors in the brain and she's like, oh my God, stop, that is going to be my kid.

Speaker 3: 53:45

She's like, I know about the patriarchy and I know about psilocybin Shut up mom With my stepdaughters.

Speaker 2: 53:50

I've been like, wow, it would be really amazing if we all just sat around and did MDMA, like when you guys are old enough, and just talked and they're like.

Speaker 1: 54:04

Oh, my God, that is so weird, that's so cringe, but like girl, that is like that's some ancestral, that's some generational healing right there. Because, like I really think I've went, I've I've known women, mothers, older mothers who have gone to like the beach with their older daughter and MDMA and like healed some shit and that's profound, Like to have that level of vulnerability, um of of prioritizing your relationship on such a deep level, Like that is like life changing. Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 54:41

Well then, that's going to happen. Like my, my 11 year old, is my inquisitive one. We always said he never outgrew that why. And now I know like his, his energy or his profile type. He's like the, the knowledge seeker, and I'm like, oh, he's never going to stop asking why, and I love that about him.

Speaker 3: 55:02

But I have had. He's my question asker. So I've had more conversations with him about drugs than I have my 16 year old. My 16 year old was just like I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it, yeah. But I have always said well, you, if you're going to drink in front of your kids, and why wouldn't you have conversations about what you're drinking and why you're drinking it and what it does to your body? Because otherwise they're just going to grow up knowing that mom and dad drank and they didn't know why. And I see that a lot Like I've had a little bit of pushback on spring break trips where I felt like I was being judged and I'm like, well, you're all getting fucked up in front of our kids. Like you're waking up every morning taking shots of tequila and there's no conversation about what it is or why. So why is it a big deal if I'm like smoking a little bit at the end of the night?

Speaker 1: 55:56

I agree. Well, this is just fear and misinformation, right yeah, and I think too Great. Well, this is just fear and misinformation, right yeah, and I think too this goes. I mean, I think like, first of all, you know your kid, you know, and kids like I don't think you need to force it down their throats either. I'm not trying to get them to do it, I'm not like, hey, you know, and I joke about my daughter. But I do try, you know, I am who I am and I'm passionate.

Speaker 1: 56:23

But like I really do try to check myself and say, am I trying to preach here, to instill in her a way of life, because I want to say that my kid is into it, or am I really just trying to teach her and give her the facts and give her a wide you know access of understanding that she's going to roll her eyes out because that's what she's supposed to do, but it's still my job to present it to her, but from a like, a dispassionate place, like not, I'm not attached to the outcome, and I think that can happen with sex, it can happen with education, it can happen with a lot of things.

Speaker 1: 56:55

You know, parents, you get so wrapped up in your own dogma, that you are pushing an agenda onto your children that doesn't really actually have anything to do with like teaching them, but rather molding them into a certain way. And so that is what I think like when you talk to your kids about drugs or anything that's like again, check yourself before you wreck yourself and understand your why. And the one good thing about the shrooms is like you do enough, like there's no ego left in me. I mean, there is, but it's very small, and so I don't have like that attachment to what I want. I just want to. I want her to understand, yeah, and that can get tricky sometimes.

Speaker 2: 57:31

Well, and even even too like they may not really understand it now, but they are watching all of us transform through just how we live, and I think that is wonderful in itself. Yeah, Is this really loud?

Speaker 1: 57:47

It is. It's a little loud, it's okay, it's like maybe we'll.

Speaker 2: 57:53

Maybe we'll pause for a little second.

Speaker 3: 57:56

I know Cause it's like right above me yeah.

Speaker 1: 58:01

I'm talking and there's like parts of roof just like falling off in front of the window. That is so funny.

Speaker 3: 58:06

I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2: 58:07

No, it's okay, I promise.

Speaker 3: 58:09

I also think what you're doing, though, you're being honest with your, with your children, and I would like to think that that's kind of the motivation behind why I talk to them too, because I also want them to feel safe enough to ask questions. I want them to know that I'm very knowledgeable in this, so if anything is ever presented to them, so like, let's take it back to that scenario where your daughter's at a party and someone's offering her alcohol, cannabis or mushrooms, like she's going to know, like okay, if I try these mushrooms, because I've I worked with clients who were like teenagers like, who, like, tried mushrooms and had bad trips, sorry, it's like really bad.

Speaker 1: 58:51

Maybe wait a little. Okay, let me just see if I can mute myself.

Speaker 3: 59:03

Oh, can you hear me though? Okay, so I've worked with, like clients I used to own a waxing boutique, so a lot of them were moms who would bring in their daughters. And I've talked to daughters without their moms in there and they're like, yeah, I did shrooms last weekend and got so messed up and had a bad, you know. So I think you talking to her about that, is going to set the example or set the president of, like okay, someone's presenting me with this, but I know that if I do too much of that and I also know that like there's something with set and setting and I should do this safely Like she's going to start remembering these conversations, like instead of it being like our parents did.

Speaker 3: 59:42

And drugs are bad, okay, yes, but no, what? Like knowledge is power, that's like the big thing. So I want my kids to be able to come to me with questions and I want them to ask questions themselves. So I don't think it's a bad thing to talk to our kids, but, to your point, kai's four, like my daughter's seven, doesn't ask me anything, but the older they get, I will talk to them about it in the way that they're able to understand it when they're ready.

Speaker 1: 1:00:19

Yeah, yeah, and I will. Um, I'll be really honest here. I have a niece who's just about ready to graduate high school, who is like my second daughter and witnessing her just go through high school when she was around 16, I was like, oh well, were we giving her wine at Sunday dinner? And that was my initial even now. And I'm like is she going? Are you going to parties? Are you drinking? And part of it is like I want to like help her.

Speaker 1: 1:00:49

And you know, I try to like weave in, like don't you know, take care of yourself and make good choices? Not that her parents aren't, you know, but it's always good to hear it from a different source. But I noticed about a year ago that my instinct was to just encourage her to drink because she's an American teenager, and that is even from someone who doesn't really drink that much anymore. And then I was like, whoa, like that's some deep programming, it's a really deep programming. And what if we just told our kids that you don't need to get fucked up when you're in high school, like it's so dumb, just so much damage? And also understanding, the kids want to experiment, like you're in that age, but like really reframing the entire, the entire conversation around that. And so, when you like, you're saying, like teaching them and presenting the facts so that they know when they're at a party, but also like what, if I raised my daughter to say you know what?

Speaker 1: 1:01:43

I actually don't think drinking at a party is a good idea. You know, I actually don't think that that's a good thing. And if you are hurt socially, like those aren't your friends, those are bad. Things happen when kids drink. They die. You know and and and it's not. I don't need to be the cool mom telling you that that's okay and it's just. We're watching gossip girl right now. So amazing and so bad, but I'm just like God. This is such toxic. It's on television.

Speaker 2: 1:02:14

It's everywhere. These kids are drinking martinis and they're like yeah, and they're in high school. Yeah, they're doing.

Speaker 1: 1:02:16

they're smoking, they're smoking weed every day, they're drinking hard and it's it's really programmed in us what we allow our kids to do. And so, yeah, I mean reframing out the alcohol conversation and also educating on psychedelics and dispelling the fear, I think is a big task that we have in front of us as parents.

Speaker 2: 1:02:41

Speaking of fear, what was something that you were scared of before you took mushrooms, and what did you realize about that fear after you took mushrooms?

Speaker 1: 1:03:00

I was scared of everything. I was scared my brain was going to drip out my ear. I was scared of everything. Yeah, I was scared. My brain was going to drip out my ear. I was afraid. I was scared I was going to become possessed. I was afraid I was going to go insane. I was going to lose my mind. I was going to become a drug addict. Um that I was somehow compromising my morals in a way that I couldn't walk back from. Um that I would jump off a building.

Speaker 1: 1:03:23

I mean literally all of it, every, everything that they've told us from the war on drugs, yeah, yeah, um, and I think I think one pervasive fear that I, you know, is still sort of in me, that kind of niggles at me which is just like are you crazy, you know? Okay, so you did it anyway I did it anyway and I continue to do it, and you're none of those things.

Speaker 3: 1:03:49

Thank you Nice to hear. If you're crazy, we're all a little bit crazy and I tend to gravitate towards the people I used to think were crazy anyway, so I'm like I'm okay with that, I'm okay with being the weird woo-woo spiritual weird friend who's into mushrooms and psychedelics.

Speaker 1: 1:04:10

I know, yeah, and you get some side eyes. Sometimes it's not great and I think I can be a little didactic about things at times when I don't need to, and that's just part of my work and my shadow and I, you know, again, I get excited about things and I like to talk about it, but it what I'm learning is what we're into. What I'm into right now isn't the norm and has a lot of context around it. That is um is framed in a lot of fear and a lot of bad things.

Speaker 1: 1:04:41

Right, like spirituality can lead to a cult, spirituality can lead to dark entities Like those things are all real and along all of those paths, you have your ego to contend with. And if you teeter on the side of like wanting more power or feeling like you're better than this righteousness which can happen in any situation, whether it's a religion, christianity, buddhism, drugs, it doesn't matter Like the idea of righteousness and feeling better than it's is part of like what we all struggle with as humans. And so to to acknowledge that is like step one, and then to again to come back to your own sovereignty and just say this is who I am and I love me, my crystals, judge me if you must. I ain't hurting anybody.

Speaker 3: 1:05:33

And I ain't. I ain't possessed, I ain't hurting anybody, it's fine, Okay. So I want to. We've loved. I love every bit of this, and what I feel like we really want to talk to you about and get into is what moms provides to your community. What is moms? How does it helping other moms? I'm like saying, what is moms, what is moms on mushrooms? And how does this community help moms who are curious or just already in this space and need community? What do you guys do?

Speaker 1: 1:06:07

Yeah, thank you. So really, first and foremost, we're steeped in education. So, you know, empowering ourselves with knowledge is probably our number one mission and, in tandem with that, learning about this medicine in community. And so we're kind of like threefold. The first part, the first gateway, is just our online community, our private membership. It's $2 a month, so it just keeps out the trolls and it's kind of like Facebook for moms on shrooms.

Speaker 1: 1:06:37

But again, kind of my vision for that was that we don't need someone telling everyone how to work with psychedelics or what to do Certainly not me. And if we just created a space, a garden if you will, where people could come in and plant their feet, we will grow together, we will figure this out together, and so it's called the Grow and it really is just to get moms talking to each other. So all day, every day, there's just posts and conversations of women figuring it out together. And it's for the woman who maybe is terrified but curious about microdosing or even psychedelics and just wants to circle the pond and witness. And it's also for the woman, you know, who's been working with this for years, or decades even, and maybe hasn't found a community, but also has some wisdom to give, which is incredibly valuable. So that's our online community, and then we just have like courses like I actually have like a micro dosing one-on-one for moms, like for people that are, just tell me how it is, and so it's a lot of you know science right up until your brain starts to hurt, and so it's a lot of you know science right up until your brain starts to hurt, explaining what it is all through the lens of a mother, like mom to mom, and then kind of why, like why would we do this? And kind of setting the foundation and looking at it.

Speaker 1: 1:07:54

We really try to look at psychedelics from a 360 degree, like a multidimensional lens, because, again, shrooms aren't going to change your life. We, we know that like it takes so many things and a lot of times, one thing I'm really protective of is the medicine, just as I'm protective of mothers, so we don't. We try to teach that it's not just starting to microdose, it's also like looking at your sleep and how much water are you drinking and how much caffeine did you have? You know like don't, don't blame shrooms for what sugar did, right, you have to like really look at that. And so, like presenting a holistic approach is kind of what there are microdosing, one-on-one.

Speaker 1: 1:08:35

Then we also have a macro dosing for moms. That just is like, why would I want to take this large dose? What does it mean? What is a shaman? What is a Ricky? You know, demystifying things, and it's that course has like interviews with just normal moms, not shamans, not healers, just normal moms who you'd see at the grocery store, that have done large dose journeys and sharing their experience.

Speaker 1: 1:08:56

And again, I think, just to level the playing field, that not everyone has to look like they're from Coachella to work with psychedelics. You can just be in sweats and have a messy bun and like having, you know, be integrating, like you don't have to be a certain way, and also just explaining how to prepare for it. And, again, intentionality. So those are kind of our self-paced course. And then our foundational offering is like a three and a half month course with 10 women or less where you kind of create your own intentional microdosing practice, because microdosing isn't really rocket science, like it's not, I think. We think it's like this complicated thing and it's really not. For us it's more understanding how it feels in your own body and giving yourself permission to create your own practice.

Speaker 1: 1:09:44

So I don't think we need another dude in a coat giving us a protocol. I don't think we need to do these things. I think you can figure it out for yourself. Just don't take it every, you know. Take some days off, don't take it more than five days a week, and know your why and everyone's why is different. And don't just throw it down your throat, like maybe just look at it before you put it in your mouth, maybe say a prayer, maybe take a breath, maybe go on a walk and so. But that's a lot of unlearning. And then inside that, in that container, we allow ourselves to peel back those onion layers as we experience them. And you're learning about microdosing not only from your own experience, but listening to your sisters who are having a different one. And one thing that's really crazy in our three and a half month course is how much people mothers instantly judge themselves against someone else's experience, like well, she seems to be having a great time and I'm not. So I'm like failing at microdosing, I'm doing it wrong. I'm doing it wrong.

Speaker 3: 1:10:39

We do that with our kids.

Speaker 1: 1:10:40

There's so much gentle unlearning that has to happen and we just kind of hold that space and just say like, just throw everything you know about doing something out the door and just try to like work with your heart, listen to yourself, you know, you know. So that's what we do.

Speaker 3: 1:10:59

The unlearning thing. I want to. I want to touch on that for just a second. The unlearning thing I want to touch on that for just a second.

Speaker 3: 1:11:09

I think a lot of people coming to us who have never microdosed, who have never touched a psychedelic, they're coming from a space of being medicated and having very specific instructions and this is what you do, this is how much you take and this is every day. So sometimes I feel like when you're new to this space, that's a good thing to have steps and structure, but then we always tell people and then you can get to a place where you're just doing it intentionally. You're like your practice is like whatever protocol works for you and they're like, well, what does that mean? And we're like you'll get there, like sit with it for a little bit, like you can follow the steps, you can follow the protocol and then do your cold plunge and then eat your meat and like you know, you got to do an hour of cardio and then you got to meditate hard and I'm just like, oh my God, like no.

Speaker 2: 1:12:16

We have had so many bros come after us in the comments.

Speaker 3: 1:12:19

It's always the bros dude.

Speaker 2: 1:12:21

But I think it's a testament that there maybe needs to be some more women in this space.

Speaker 1: 1:12:25

Yeah, I was just texting a mentor before this call and I was like we really need the women to zoom in, not from a sexist place. I just see it going. We're repeating the same patterns, which is fix it. Do it on a schedule so that we take out any unknowns that comes again from a genuine place. This works to do it on a schedule so that we take out any unknowns that comes again from a genuine place. This works to do it over and over and over again so it doesn't break again. I get it, but this is softer, gentler medicine and it doesn't work that way. It's not linear, like psychedelics aren't linear, so don't try to put it in a box and, like I, freaking, die for Paul Stamets, james Fadiman, thank you, thank you for what you've done and also stop stop beating us over the head with a damn protocol. We don't need it.

Speaker 3: 1:13:13

I love that, so it's really just about empowering women to trust that, like they can do this in the way that works best for them.

Speaker 1: 1:13:21

That's what I do, but I would also love to empower men to do the same thing. Like you know, y'all don't have to jump in a cold plunge seven days a week. You can be softer. And I want to empower men to cry and feel their feelings. Like how many men do you talk about on microdosing that say I cried for a month? You don't. They're like I was productive, I fricking started a business. You know, like it's, like there's no softness that's allowed. I mean and I know they want it because people are begging us to do dads on mushrooms, which we're going to do, but like it's going to be a big slap in the face for dads. Like you're not going to be, you're not going to be a fricking, you're not going to write code for the new app.

Speaker 3: 1:14:07

Are we speaking to my husband right now?

Speaker 2: 1:14:10

Mine too, literally, I love that. When is that? When is that expected to kick off?

Speaker 1: 1:14:16

I don't know. Would anyone like to invest?

Speaker 2: 1:14:18

Was this a hard?

Speaker 1: 1:14:18

launch Like who's out there that wants to write a check so we can do dads on?

Speaker 2: 1:14:25

mushrooms interesting I'll talk to tony that definitely needs to happen.

Speaker 2: 1:14:30

I am yeah, right I am glad that you touched on about like people, like you don't have to. You don't have to look like you're going to like coachella, to like do this because they're we've talked about this before but there's like the huberman like avenue, and then there's like you look like you're going to like burning man, and so again, we have not really fit in either of those boxes and we've gotten hate on both sides because it's like well, you don't look like this and you don't fit this stereotype, and it's like yeah, duh, like well, I'm like isn't right, and I'm like isn't that?

Speaker 2: 1:15:05

isn't the point for us to be us who we are, right like I'm not trying to go to burning man and do the whole festival stuff. I mean that'd be cool to do I know? I still want to do it right. I don't, I don't necessarily, I don't like I need to lose, like 150 pounds.

Speaker 1: 1:15:21

and where do they get those clothes? Like it's way too much pressure. It's called tape. Okay, everyone just keeps saying like we need a mom camp. Like when we're just we just go to Burning man in like pajamas and serve tea to everyone. Like that's so down.

Speaker 2: 1:15:35

I can't, I can't do all that I'm so down with that, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:15:42

So I'm glad you touched on that. Yeah, no, I mean it is. And in the middle of that, like you were saying, you know, there's like the tech bros and there's Burning.

Speaker 3: 1:15:52

Man in the middle, there's just reasonable people. It's like celebrities. They're just like us Like. We're just like you.

Speaker 1: 1:16:06

No, you're just reasonable people who want to have an elevated experience in this precious gift of life that we've been given on this Eden of a planet. Like you want to pay attention, there's a bunch of people that just want to pay attention and like actually soak it up and they don't. You don't. And also I get it. If you want to start dressing different because you start losing fucks about what people think of you. You know, like I can't fit any more piercings in my ear. I don't know why I'm doing it.

Speaker 1: 1:16:28

I like it. I don't know you change and I don't give a shit if my parents or my grandparents or my in-laws don't like it. It makes me happy. Those things are great. And so you express yourself and wear the clothes you want, and I get hippies Like I get it. But also to to feel like you have to fall into some label again or that you're not doing it right, like to give, to give hate, like you're not. Are you taking the medicine? Like how could it? I don't even understand how it works. How could you do that?

Speaker 2: 1:16:56

That's what we wonder. We're like like. Aren't we supposed to be on the same team?

Speaker 3: 1:17:00

I thought we were on the same team, dude, and you're mad that. You're mad for what?

Speaker 1: 1:17:07

Why are you even like? Why do you even care? Yeah?

Speaker 1: 1:17:10

You know, and that's, I think, one thing we struggle with and we people get angry with us because we really try, we really don't tell you what to do. It's not our, it's not my place. It's not my place to be even a psychedelic expert. I'm just not. I mean, I've got decades of training under my belt. I don't even think I'll start serving. I was shown I'll start serving when I'm like 63. And my teachers are like no, you can do, mom, you are not serving, you need 100 more. My teacher's like 100 journeys before you even think about sitting with someone else, Because you have to know your landscape and there's experience, like knowledge and wisdom. That stuff comes with time. So I just don't know how you could be angry at someone, and so we really don't tell you how to be or what to do, or even that you should dedicate yourself to your life, to psychedelics Like. That's not the point. The point is happiness and change. However you get there and it looks different for everyone. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:18:05

Yeah, I love that. How have, um, how has your family responded to you doing all this Cause you just mentioned your parents and your grandparents and all of that and your you know your niece and have they been receptive to it, or do they think you're like just bat shit crazy now?

Speaker 1: 1:18:22

Um, there's a lot that unfortunately aren't speaking to me and it's really sad. And, um, my mother has been deeply supportive and we've had beautiful, long, expansive conversations, exploring things just, and she's really like it's so wonderful to witness a wise woman like questioning her own beliefs and and letting her putting her ego aside and just exploring different schools of thought. Um, my mother, my sweet little Scottish mother-in-law, is like my biggest cheerleader. She just gets it and I think that, like most women, if they're actually honest with themselves or in, you know, and I have like neighbors across the street who are, you know, in their seventies and stuff that are just like go, go, go, like I wish I had this when I was your age, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:19:13

Um, so I would say, overall it's been, you know, positive and I there's been some people that just don't agree with me and think I'm causing harm, and it's that sad. I don't want to cause harm and, um, I'm not in it for any other reason that except I think moms need help right now. So, um, what are you going to do?

Speaker 3: 1:19:41

I love that you're saying that, because I think a lot of people in this space struggle with that and we don't talk about it in every episode, but I can almost guarantee every interview we've ever had with anybody in this space has struggled with people not speaking to them because of their convictions. And I think the difference is you and us and those people have just accepted that and it's it's part of it's part of the price that we pay to empower other people.

Speaker 1: 1:20:15

Yeah, and I find that, um, like thank you for challenging me to find out what I care about and what I believe in.

Speaker 1: 1:20:24

Yeah, you know, that kind of that level of judgment is a big mirror for me, it poses itself as a big mirror, and so I have nothing but gratitude for the opportunity to become very clear in my values. And so if that was like our roles as we pass, as we walk this life together, if that was our roles like, thank you, and all I can do and this is between me and God, literally that's how I view it is I just I keep saying this to you guys, like I just check myself before I wreck myself, like I just I gotta keep it, I gotta keep, I gotta keep my shit clean and I gotta keep it real with God, and as long as I feel like that's an alignment and and these days if I, if I step out of alignment, I'm shown pretty quickly, you know, something comes back to kick me and I ricochet between steps and have to have a cry. You know, I, I, I, I can reflect, but, but you know, judgment sometimes makes you very clear on who you are and that's a gift.

Speaker 3: 1:21:33

I love that. Thank you, tracy, for stepping into the world of mushrooms and sharing with the world your gift and, like we said earlier, like you are doing God's work, because that is some badassery that you can go up against these people and everything you're saying is spot on and there are people who believe in what you're doing. So thank you for that and thank you for creating this space for everybody. Um, where can we find you on Instagram and your website?

Speaker 1: 1:22:11

Yeah, uh, moms on mushrooms, official on the IgE, and our website is moms on mushroomscom. All right, and it's pretty much where we are too, yeah, it's been such a pleasure.

Speaker 3: 1:22:21

It really has they likewise, like it's so. I'm so like, what a job.

Speaker 1: 1:22:29

I love our jobs and to you about it, all I want, and I'm also like we just talked about psychedelics for an hour and a half and loved every second You're our people, we're your people.

Speaker 3: 1:22:40

You know we get it. We're your people.

Speaker 2: 1:22:42

You know we get it.

Speaker 3: 1:22:42

We're getting it, Girlhood, yes. And to all of our listeners stay curious, be open and we'll see you guys on the other side.