89 | Healing Through Psychedelics and Holistic Living (with Stephanie Graves)

What if you could transform your life and health by addressing the root causes instead of just treating the symptoms? On this episode we're thrilled to sit down with Stephanie Graves, a dynamic professional whose journey from a physician assistant to a multifaceted healer is truly inspiring. Stephanie opens up about her husband's severe battle with alcoholism and how a profound experience with ayahuasca led to his sobriety and their collective healing journey. From functional nutrition to psychedelic integration, Stephanie shares how these practices not only reclaimed her health but also led to the natural conception of her fourth child after years of infertility treatments.

Chronic stress, adrenal fatigue, and the power of supportive relationships are just a few of the intense subjects we cover in this episode. Stephanie shares her personal battles with burnout and how rest, self-care, and healing together with loved ones—often through the transformative power of psychedelics—can lead to profound well-being. We also touch on the critical role of gut and liver health amidst chronic stress and the importance of reducing life stressors for long-term healing. The conversation emphasizes how real, sustainable healing goes beyond conventional medicine, highlighting the importance of a holistic approach to health.

Listeners will also get an in-depth look at the world of plant medicines and the nuanced differences between recreational and intentional use. Stephanie provides valuable insights into various substances such as MDMA, psilocybin, LSD, San Pedro, ayahuasca, iboga, ketamine, and cannabis. We explore the importance of proper psychedelic education, the ceremonial use of cacao, and how such practices can foster family bonding. Stephanie's journey into homeschooling and the integration of plant medicines into daily life offer a unique perspective on holistic living. Join us for an episode filled with transformative experiences, personal stories, and expert insights into a holistic approach to health and well-being.

You can find Stephanie here: https://www.instagram.com/thefunctionalhealer

And here: https://thefunctionalhealer.com/

Join us for a virtual Cacao Ceremony: https://helloc65121.clickfunnels.com/fast-acting-order-form1712001869169?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaZtQ9455rt08nWa6mPcp8ltCBPTFAk5Z7WSvQyGvgLCpeZ3CKoojduRa88_aem_z2PrTZyA-lXaSqPO1q1BGQ

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:20

Okay, everyone, welcome back to another episode of See you on the Other Side. We are so excited we have Stephanie Graves here with us today, and we were talking before we started recording. But you have a lot of titles under your belt, so I'm going to have you introduce yourself to the listeners and tell the listeners a little bit of what you do to the listeners and tell the listeners a little bit of what you do Awesome.

Speaker 2: 0:52

Thank you so much for having me. Yes, so I'm Stephanie and by trade I am a physician assistant. However, my real passion is my work as a functional medicine nutritionist, psychedelic integration coach and cacao practitioner. I am also a wife and mom of four who my homeschool.

Speaker 1: 1:06

What Okay, I didn't know that part. You just added another layer.

Speaker 3: 1:13

We're going to have to talk after this because I am seriously questioning homeschooling like so much, but that can be a topic for another day.

Speaker 2: 1:20

We can do like part two yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:26

Okay, so I don't even know where to start with this. Can you start about? Can you start with, like, where your journey started? Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 1:36

I'll give you my cliff notes version of the story, so this being a podcast regarding psychedelics and all. So my journey started about five years ago. At that time my husband was struggling severely with alcoholism. He'd been to AA and done rehab and those things weren't really working. He was sober yet was still extremely depressed and even suicidal. So after a relapse it was so severe that we had to do something like urgently. So a friend mentioned ayahuasca and at that time we were so desperate I was like let's ship you to a foreign country, absolutely Like whatever needs to be done to address this problem, like please. And after that one experience it was completely life-changing for him. It just opened his eyes up to this new life in front of him and new way of thinking and feeling and healing. And from that one experience it really just started him on this path of using psychedelics to heal. Experience it really just started him on this path of using psychedelics to heal Happened to report. He's five plus years sober and myself, being someone who's very self-motivated, before my eyes I saw him growing and changing and evolving. So I was like if he's going places, I'm going with him. So I'll give this thing a try. And yeah, that's what really started my journey using psychedelics to heal.

Speaker 2: 3:08

At that time I'd been working as a PA and was pretty unsatisfied with my job because I was just doing what everyone else was and is doing Western medicine. It's just how many patients can you see in a day? What's your problem? Here's your medication, here's your refill onto the next one, and I didn't really feel like I was actually helping people. I'd also been struggling with daily debilitating abdominal pain and bloating, profound fatigue, to the point having to take two naps a day dizziness, chronic anxiety and, most notably, was without a menstrual cycle for about 20 years. So, you know, sought my primary yeah, not normal, sought my primary. And they did what everyone else again go see this specialist, take this medication. Much like my husband, traditional methods weren't working for me.

Speaker 2: 4:02

So as I started to use psychedelics, very clearly was able to peel back the layers of the onion and understand all of these physical manifestations were basically these unaddressed emotions I had just stuffed my entire life. For me, it was easier just to push things down than to address them. Um, especially when my husband was actively drinking, it's like I'll just go for a three hour run instead of have to worry about what's actually happening, you know, in home life. Um so, uh, my first integration coach was actually a functional nutritionist, so she's the one who opened me up to this new way of medicine. And, um so I, I started my training and I completed that, and it was so eyeopening to be able to learn basically everything I learned in PA school through a different lens, through a functional lens and one that honestly makes sense.

Speaker 2: 4:57

So, through very mindful and intentional changes in my diet and lifestyle, along with a great facilitation of plant medicines, was able to completely eradicate all of those physical symptoms that I had been managing and struggling with for so long. And about two years ago, I got my menstrual cycle back, which was a huge life accomplishment for me, something I never thought was possible. And then, after just a couple of cycles not intentionally, but we got pregnant and conceived our fourth baby. My previous three pregnancies were all through fertility treatments, so really just a testament to what is possible when healing to the complete core and root is achieved Wow. So that's my story, and now I get to support others and pay it forward and as they go through their experiences, either using psychedelics or with nutrition, because, again, they've greatly impacted my life and my husband's life and our families, ultimately so that we can do better for our children. So we're super passionate about this field. So now again, being able to pay it forward and working in alignment with really my authenticity feels really great.

Speaker 1: 6:23

I love that.

Speaker 3: 6:24

I have so much I want to say I do too.

Speaker 1: 6:26

Do you want to go first or do you want me to go first? You go first, okay. So the first question that I wanted to ask is with us and our families, we are the ones who started the journey. Where, with your family, your husband is the one who started the journey and you watched him change. Can you elaborate on what you mean by that? Like when he came back from his ayahuasca retreat, like, what did you see? What transformation did you see?

Speaker 2: 6:55

Yeah, I think after his first ayahuasca was the most profound, like he literally just came to life, like those six months after he had like the ayahuasca glow and just was so present with life and motivated and, you know, really just wanting to take charge of his life, versus just kind of sitting on the sidelines and letting everything pile on and happen to him.

Speaker 2: 7:18

He also was starting to feel a lot and moving through a lot of emotions and a lot of grief.

Speaker 2: 7:23

He's lost two brothers to addiction, so the weight of that really hit him after that and being able to properly grieve and then just really telling me about his experiences, I was so curious and he went to one ceremony where there was a husband and wife couple there and he thought that was so interesting and spoke with them and they basically said like I don't know how you could do this work without your partner being on board. More or less you know, one of them is healing, the other one's not, and just said how beautiful it was to see them together in ceremony, like either before or during and after. So he really wanted to bring me to the same community and introduced me to it and just with my first journey certainly I was a little nervous before, but once the medicine came on it was like okay, this is where I belong, like this is amazing, like when are we doing this? Like when, like this is happening, like we need to form our own community and we're going to do this?

Speaker 3: 9:40

So I feel like there's this like common theme with, like anybody who has these profound experiences, where they come out and they're like why is no one talking about this? Where are the people doing this? Everybody deserves this. Like there needs to be more education, more access, safer routes to go about. Like I also sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off if you were still talking no, you're good, no and yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:05

And I mean after I'm, like you know, texting the facilitators, the co-facilitators, and just like brainstorming, like how to grow this just after that one. And that's just kind of speaks into my personality too. Once I get excited, I'm passionate about something. It's like full steam ahead.

Speaker 1: 10:20

Do you know what your human design is?

Speaker 2: 10:22

I don't.

Speaker 3: 10:24

Okay, I love that. That's like a question we ask everybody now.

Speaker 2: 10:28

Maybe I should find out, though we can help you with that.

Speaker 1: 10:30

You should look into that.

Speaker 3: 10:31

Yeah, so I can relate on so many levels because my husband also an alcoholic. He's three years sober and I think there is this very misunderstood language around the use of psychedelics when you are speaking to addicts. We have had a very terrible interview gone wrong with someone who owned a rehab facility who was very, very against psychedelic use because he used to do psychedelics and he knows how bad they can be and in the height of his addiction he did a lot of acid, you know. So I think that there is this very large misunderstanding because in my experience, like I think a lot of people are afraid to touch it because it's another drug and while I think in the height of addiction it can be used in that way and not intentionally used, I think using it intentionally with the purpose of like healing and maybe finding out why you are an addict is like a very different thing.

Speaker 2: 11:39

So, yeah, absolutely, people get really triggered by that Like it was definitely a slippery slope at times. It was like is he, are you chasing like the high, like the expansion, um, or are you actually taking time to integrate what it is that you're learning or the insights that are coming in? And I think there needs to be a lot of education too, particularly like with MDMA, because, again from his experience, the low basically puts you back in that wound and it can be really really hard and triggering for people if they don't have proper support or they don't understand and they're at this like bottom again that it can be a really vulnerable place for someone with, um, you know, a substance abuse addiction, um, to maybe fall back into that. And I mean honestly.

Speaker 2: 12:27

I mean I wouldn't say everyone, but a lot of people have addictions. It just looks different Like for me it was exercise and again I used to run marathons to not feel my pain. Some people are shopping, some people gambling or sex or eating, whatever it is. It just looks different and I think there's just a bigger stigma obviously around people that are using substances to cope with their pain.

Speaker 1: 12:51

Yeah, you're exactly right, We've talked about that a lot. Like you shopped a lot for me, I was in the fitness industry and so I struggled with bulimia, anorexia, overexercising, body dysmorphia Like I went into the fitness industry because I had these issues with my body and with control and all of that. So it's, it is, it's it's. We don't talk about those things, but we do talk about addiction and I think we all have a lot of addictions or unhealthy coping mechanisms to deal with things that we don't want to really deal with.

Speaker 2: 13:30

Yeah, Unfortunately, most people don't get like addicted to celery. It doesn't really, you know.

Speaker 3: 13:35

I wish I was addicted to celery. Come on, I can't be addicted to broccoli and all the good stuff and protein Like what's up with that?

Speaker 1: 13:45

Go ahead. So I was going to ask you about then. Okay, so he had this experience, you watched him evolve and change, and then can you talk to us about that first experience? Cause I do feel like I mean, I've had a lot of profound experiences, but the first journey that I had was with psilocybin and I was like, holy shit, this is what self-love is Like. I really am embodying it. So I want to hear about, hear about.

Speaker 2: 14:17

So, again, I was in a very small, intimate group and my husband was there too, and, yeah, there wasn't much for like visuals I mean, usually your first experience there's not a ton of visuals, but the message was very clear and it was the war is over. And for me, I'd been someone who is, like, always running and very type A and suffered from severe adrenal fatigue and burnout, like that's basically what all my physical manifestations were as a result of, so you know, commuting. I was at that time commuting an hour each way, working 12 hour shifts, three kids, four and under. I was also running a travel blog, like I said, running marathons, all this crazy stuff. So it was really clear that I didn't have to do that anymore, like that wasn't serving me, and it was just such a relief just to be there and be surrounded by these people that I'd, on paper, like we're very different from, but like connected with, and felt very safe, um, safe with and um, yeah, I mean it was just. It was exactly what I needed.

Speaker 2: 15:26

And then just that rest, to have that time to do nothing.

Speaker 2: 15:29

And even I remember the beforehand, the night before, in the hotel room, my husband and I usually, like I was working a side business or I was working on the travel blog, I would be doing something, cause I was always doing something and that night before the journey, we just like sat in bed and watched TV and I was like, wow, this is different, but it feels nice just to rest. So that was just kind of a preview, so just really having that time with the medicine to really just lay down and check out of mom mode and work mode and all the things, and just be there with myself and give myself that medicine that I needed, which was rest and a lot more of it coming. But even again, on the other side, once I got out of it, just it was such a positive experience that I knew that this was something that we were going to, it was going to be a very big part of our lives and that we were going to continue to do so. It was like, okay, um, what's next?

Speaker 2: 16:26

Was it ayahuasca? Uh, no, um, it was, um, mdma and some other plants.

Speaker 3: 16:33

Okay, that was another. I was going to ask the same thing. I want to go. So we just had an interview come out last week with a functional medicine. Is that what she? Is that the name?

Speaker 1: 16:48

She's a naturopath, thank you.

Speaker 3: 16:50

Thank you.

Speaker 2: 16:52

There's so many different variations.

Speaker 3: 16:53

Yes, and we did not discuss psychedelics. So when we were talking today, I was like I love bridging this gap because very similar, like finding the root cause, backgrounds. But I want to talk about this because it's something I didn't ask her. We were talking about how to fix your gut health, how to fix adrenals like all of this, the issues that happen when your liver isn't functioning properly, what anger can do for your body, what grief does to your body, and like fixing all of these things. The one thing I walked away wishing I had asked was and I'm going to relate this back to you and your husband in a second Um, how much can you fix of those things? How much can you fix of your gut functioning properly, your liver functioning properly, your skin clearing up all of these internal things, if you are still in, let's say, the relationship with your husband before he was sober?

Speaker 2: 17:55

Yeah, no, I would say that that would not be feasible because and not even to mention and thank you for bringing that up how much our relationship has grown through healing together. I mean before, when you know, just five years ago, like we didn't communicate and yeah, we just there was hardly a relationship. You know, we knew that we loved each other but there was no real connection there. So for my personal experience again, I was suffering later to find out when I went through my functional training, from severe adrenal fatigue and burnout, from chronic years of again just always going and type A, overexercising, undereating, all the things, and then also, so, at its core, adrenal fatigue stems from chronic stress. So stress comes in so many different forms, like I said. So stress comes in so many different forms, like I said, overexercising, under eating, not sleeping, just, you know, having a very busy schedule, and then also emotional stressors to financial stress, unhealed traumas. So our body and my belief stores all of these unhealed traumas and emotions and if they're not addressed then really true healing can occur.

Speaker 2: 19:24

So if you're still running marathons or under eating, or you're still in a toxic relationship or you're working the stressful job, your body's still in some form of fight or flight mode and that's survival mode and you can sustain that for some period of time.

Speaker 2: 19:39

You know a bear is chasing you, it's helpful, but again, after years and decades of being in survival mode, eventually your adrenal glands burn out and that's when you start developing these different physical manifestations, like I was. So when the body is in that fight or flight sympathetic mode, really true healing can't occur because the body is again prioritizing survival, not thriving or healing really. And that's also a reason why, looking back, I was not able to have a period or get pregnant, because, again, when the body is in survival mode, it's like this isn't a great idea to bring another life into the world, right. But once I was able to address my internal terrain and diet and lifestyle through a myriad of factors and then really understand why I was the way that I was, my body was able to flip into more of that parasympathetic healing mode and then my body felt safe and some of these things could calm down. Um, so yeah, I hope that answered the question.

Speaker 3: 20:46

Absolutely, cause I we say often like you can take a fish out of dirty water, get it healthy, but like to put that fish back into the same fish tank. It's not going to take long for that fish to get sick again. So you can work on all of these physical symptoms and ailments and finding the root of them. But unless you're really truly focusing on fixing the situation, that's like causing all this stuff to go awry. Yeah, it's not going to do much long term.

Speaker 2: 21:18

Yeah, absolutely, and that's even something I recommend clients doing if they are managing this, one of the first things is really just making a list of all the stressors in their life and just looking at like, okay, what are the things that are not serving me and how can I start addressing them. Because, again, yeah, healing, full healing can occur if there is still stress or if the body is perceiving danger.

Speaker 3: 21:45

Which is wild. The wife of an alcoholic is not a calm way of living a life. So yeah, looking back I was like no fucking wonder I was depressed all the time.

Speaker 1: 22:01

But I think I'm glad that you're mentioning that, because I do think that a lot of people, we get a lot of people who reach out to us and they're like I'm struggling with depression or I'm struggling with anxiety or I'm having these body issues come up and sometimes you know, you start talking to them and you're like, well, you know, you and your husband are not connected, you're not doing what you want to be doing. You know you're, you're not hanging out with the job.

Speaker 1: 22:30

You hate your job, you're, you're, you're not hanging out with people who are supporting like your evolution and growth, are supporting like your evolution and growth. But you point that all of those things out, that's a lot to take in and it's a lot for people like it's hard for people to let go of things sometimes or it's hard for people to like want to do these substances because it means that like you can't see, unsee the things you're about to see, and like things are just going to come up to the surface. If you do this medicine and if you're not willing to change certain things in your life, it can make it really hard.

Speaker 2: 23:15

Yeah, yeah. In my experience, the universe just continues to like poke at the wound and make it more uncomfortable. And again for me and my physical symptoms, it got to a point where it was like this is undeniable, like something is going on here, and I think it's something like Tony Robbins has something to the extent of like your desire to change has to be greater than your desire to stay the same.

Speaker 2: 23:36

So, it's exactly right, like has to be greater than your desire to stay the same. So it's exactly right Like do you want to continue living this like high stress, dysfunctional lifestyle, or do you want to feel better and actually um heal and have a better quality of life for yourself and also your family too?

Speaker 1: 23:54

Yeah, I think we're so conditioned to live a stressful, busy too. Yeah, I think we're so conditioned to live a stressful, busy, unconnected life, and I, I hate that it's it's it's sad. Okay, so you started in Western medicine and now you've transitioned to plant medicine, a more holistic space. Can you talk about, in your opinion, what the difference is between both and why the more holistic route has? I mean, you've already kind of shared but has better served you?

Speaker 3: 24:29

Or better, served anyone really yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:31

Yeah Well, Western medicine they are merely treating symptoms, so it's this pill for that problem. They're not really taking the time to understand the patient or their story, to hear how it is that these physical symptoms have come about and why. Again, it's just this pill for that problem, which isn't a good long-term solution. And not to mention that most of these medications haven't really been studied for long-term use yet. People are on their Prilosec or antidepressants for years and decades versus taking a functional approach. My first visit with a client is just all their health history, so one hour just learning everything about them from birth up until this moment of time. So I really have a crystal clear picture of everything that's true for them their childhood, what they were eating, what they're eating now, their lifestyle, sleep, travel, traumas, et cetera, and then making very individualized recommendations regarding their diet and lifestyle in order to reduce inflammation and reduce stress in the body, to create an environment that is more conducive to healing.

Speaker 2: 25:47

There are some non-negotiables in, in my opinion, for really just anyone. Once we address those, then it really becomes okay. Now, where are you still at? What issues are you still having? How can we continue to tweak things based on your specific symptoms or issues that you're having, so that again, we can get clean everything up and in my experience, diet and lifestyle can take you very far. And then it's with the psychedelics that gives you that like last piece to really unlock the why behind.

Speaker 2: 26:18

Okay, you've done all these things to clean up your diet and supplements and lifestyle and have you know better relationships, but why are you anxious? And then the psychedelics can give you that answer. Because I feel as though once you can understand something, then you can heal from it. And when I work with my clients too, and even my children, being a homeschool teacher, I find that it's very important to educate on the why, so that people understand you know why I'm asking them to make certain changes. So, again for me, being able to actually visualize myself as a child and seeing what wasn't working for me and how this anxiety and these disempowering beliefs of not being enough really came about to be like, oh, that makes sense, I don't have to carry that along anymore, I don't have to, that doesn't have to be my story. Um, that doesn't have to be my story, but um, without that I feel like it would be really hard or you wouldn't be able to get full resolution.

Speaker 1: 27:16

Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree with that, yeah.

Speaker 3: 27:20

Uh, I'm so sorry. I was like thinking about like, um, we, I've been showing up on social media a lot lately in a different way and not in a good way. I've been getting triggered a lot.

Speaker 1: 27:35

Let's get into it. Should I get into?

Speaker 3: 27:37

it. So there is this. I guess he's an influencer, yeah, who posted a very making fun of people who are microdosing post, who is very misinformed. He has millions of followers. So it was like really upsetting, because I'm like listening to this guy talk shit about psychedelics and he's sober. I think he's like 15 years sober and that's like his thing is like he's, he's very sober, he doesn't need drugs to feel good and dah, dah, dah.

Speaker 3: 28:12

But I was like in the comment section really feeling like I was defending psychedelics in like such a big way, cause people are like they don't change your life, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like true, and so this is what I kind of want to get into, because I'm sure you see this with your clients, like and I'm sure that you probably talked to your clients about this before Like this is not something that is going to change your life If you are not in a. I used to be one of those people who are like everybody should do them. The whole world needs psychedelics. And then now I'm like actually like it can do a lot more damage if you're not willing to change, if you are not in a healthy, supportive, safe environment to make those changes, if you don't have a healthy support system, and so I can see both sides of it now, which is frustrating because I'm, like in comment sections, arguing with people not really really argue.

Speaker 2: 29:09

I don't call it arguing. I call it.

Speaker 3: 29:11

Informing and educating, yeah, but it's frustrating because it's it's. I see people who I think could really benefit from the medicine, but then I see their home life and I'm like I don't know that it would do that much good.

Speaker 2: 29:29

Yeah, I feel like definitely there has to be support and if there is a spouse, then they have to be a thousand percent on board too, because if they're weary or questionable about it, I just feel like the person going under the medicine isn't going to have a great experience if they're just being faced with like a lot of fear and yeah. So one of my jobs is I'm collaborating and I work with a local ketamine clinic and not only do I provide the infusions there but I also serve as an integration coach. So all of my clients, like you said, I let them know that again. My experience opinion, the psychedelic is like the passive healing, like that's the easy part. It's really the integration is like 80% or more of the work after. It's what you do really with these insights and these lessons, visuals, whatever that you have experienced during the infusion and how you translate that into um, into your life and making new, healthier habits or new relationships.

Speaker 2: 30:33

So people you know I've even had someone say they're looking for a quick fix. This is not a quick fix, not for you If you are doing any psychedelic and then just popping back into your old life or like jumping back into work. Essentially that was just money and time wasted, because not much is really that. The same patterns are still going to be there, the same triggers, and if you haven't, if you're not supported again.

Speaker 2: 31:01

That's why I really advocate for people to have a coach, especially if it's their first time. Then you're just kind of like treading water and lost and you have no idea like what's happening or why, or what to do next, or have really someone to support you along the journey. So, yeah, I definitely recommend, if it is your first time, to a thousand percent have a coach, or even if you're, it's been a few times having someone just walk you along that journey so that to keep you accountable and also have a better understanding of what it is that's you know, coming to you or what's coming up for you in your life and healthier ways to you know process and release these traumas, and also to create healthier routines and relationships too If usually there's a partner or spouse involved too and how to educate them so that they can be of support to the person who's undergoing the infusions or ceremony.

Speaker 3: 31:58

That is the thing we didn't have was like coaches weren't a thing, like integration wasn't really being talked about, like we figured it out on our own. But I don't wish that upon anybody. And so in this particular post he was like making fun of this guy for being a coach. And he was like and get this if you go to his page, you can pay him to show you how to do drugs. And I'm like in the comments like obviously, because you all don't know what you're talking about, so there have to be people teaching people like you think microdosing is like somebody like high all the time. So clearly you're misinformed and miseducate and not really understanding what microdosing means, which is why he is coaching people. Because if you go into this thinking you know what you're doing, it could go very wrong very quickly.

Speaker 2: 32:59

Yeah, and especially on the other side, when things start coming up, if you don't have someone to support you through that or talk you through it or help you navigate these new feelings. A lot of times people are feeling literally for the first time. Again, that was my experience after I don't know, maybe like half a dozen journeys. All of a sudden, like something shifted and I was like and now I'm feeling everything.

Speaker 2: 33:21

Yay Like you know, like or no actually. Well, actually, after my first journey yeah, it was like two months later I was actually in the ER for a panic attack because it just broke me open and now I was just feeling all the anxiety that I had been pushing down. So it was. It can be really overwhelming and luckily I did have a coach and she helped me through that. But, yeah, I, and even like with my husband and I both, you know, using psychedelics we're basically always talking, we're like basically always integrating, but I think it's really important to have someone else to talk to. Maybe you can be a little bit more open with or just have a different perspective Because when you're in it with your spouse, you know all the time sometimes it can make it really hard to see, like, what's actually happening or just have another perspective.

Speaker 1: 34:48

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 34:48

You're a hundred percent right. I have Christine. No, we have the podcast, we have each other, and I feel like a lot of times we struggle trying to help people connect with other people like who are like-minded, who they can bounce ideas back and forth with. This is not a um, do it alone thing Like it's. It's actually much, much harder when you are going about this journey and you are alone.

Speaker 1: 35:16

Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah. No, so we grew up, you know, obviously in the dare generation. No, so we grew up, you know, obviously in the dare generation.

Speaker 3: 35:39

Yeah, and so you know, kind of going back to that social media post or whatever that Leah was talking about.

Speaker 1: 35:41

When you are educating people, a lot of people think of these medicines and they lump them with drugs, so they think of it as like you're drinking on the weekends or you're doing drugs and that's how it's it's used. Um, how would you explain to somebody that they are very different when used with the right intention, cause it's like I don't even like to refer to them as drugs because I'm like they're not. Even people are like well, I, I smoked weed once and I got really paranoid when I got high. I was like please do not compare mushrooms or any type of plant medicine to even cannabis. They're very different and it works very differently and it's used very differently.

Speaker 2: 36:16

So yeah, I have a lot of clients who have used psychedelics recreationally and or you know, maybe they've had one experience or like a bad trip. And for me, I actually used mushrooms one time in college and it was the most horrific experience ever. It was so scary. So I was definitely a little apprehensive the first time before my journey. You know I was, I was nervous, but, um, much like my experience and when I tell my clients or prospective clients is, like you said, when used with intention, and we're doing this in a very safe setting, we're preparing for it, it's not just like in your friend's backseat.

Speaker 2: 36:57

It's a very different experience because you're respecting the medicine, you're respecting the process. When you don't respect the medicine, it can slap you around and you can have a very unfavorable experience. And that's usually what happens when people do have these, you know, like bad trips or they get really anxious with cannabis. Um, from what I see, it just like amplify. So if you're going into it anxious, it's just going to make that so much louder so that you have to look at it really. But so, yeah, that's again just really educating them that this is very different and we're not doing this to escape. We're actually doing this to dive into the discomfort for healing.

Speaker 3: 37:37

Yeah, it's a very different language with people, you and I. When we were like on the plane together, we sat next to this guy who was like he saw a mushroom on my hat and was like fuck yeah, drugs. But, like you know, I'm like, oh, he's one of us and he's talking to me about psychedelics, and then I mentioned a heroic journey and he was like what's that? He was like, oh, we're very different, Like that's a different language and it's not the same thing that we talk about and that we are helping like spread to, you know, other women. Like that's not what we, that's not what we educate people on.

Speaker 2: 38:21

Yeah, no, absolutely I agree we.

Speaker 1: 38:24

That's not what we educate people on. Yeah, no, absolutely I agree, can. Can you share um like other medicines that you've used, and kind of not necessarily what your experience was with them, but what maybe it brought for you?

Speaker 2: 38:36

Yeah, Um, I've used a variety of psychedelics, so MDMA mushrooms, lsd San Pedro, ayahuasca aboga.

Speaker 1: 38:51

I'm curious about aboga.

Speaker 2: 38:53

And I did do. Yeah, and ketamine cannabis, but yeah, I think that's the list.

Speaker 3: 39:01

Do you feel like they all have very different. I always say this I feel like they each have a very different energy and purpose.

Speaker 1: 39:10

Yeah, I guess that's kind of where I was going with that.

Speaker 3: 39:13

Okay, because I had. This isn't throwing anybody under the bus, it wasn't a negative conversation or anything. Somebody reached out to me who has done mushroom journeys and is like I think I need to do ketamine and I was just trying to explain the difference and, just knowing this person and how far they've come, I was like I really think that you could stick with mushrooms and get more out of it than the ketamine. I think the ketamine would be for a different reason, but like what you're looking for, I think would be here in this, do you find that same thing? It's almost like a prescriptive, like yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 39:53

I think that the ketamine and things like MDMA are great because they're legal and they kind of get people in the door and then then it kind of opens up for like conversations of are do you want to continue on this path?

Speaker 3: 40:06

do you want to go deeper?

Speaker 3: 40:07

yeah, yeah that's what I felt. That's kind of what I was saying. I was like I appreciate ketamine in this space. I think it's like the, the legal doorway for people to dip their toes in and feel like they're doing something safe and legal and they're not like breaking any laws. That's the way I kind of felt. But I was like but and it's great, I loved it. It was a beautiful, positive experience because I was doing it with a therapist but, like, I just think it was like a toe dip.

Speaker 2: 40:41

Yeah, yeah, in my experience the plant medicines are certainly more powerful and profound. So things like MDMA and ketamine, yes, can be really helpful, but I find that the plant medicines are more spiritually connected, obviously, and more like you feel more and you have to really move through these emotions. More than just the MDMA, I just feel like it's kind of like a stream of information that comes in, and the ketamine was just like a lot of self-love, which is always great.

Speaker 2: 41:12

It's like fuzzy, um, but the other medicines, you really have to feel it and it can be really uncomfortable and, um, maybe not to say that you probably can't have that with the other ones, but I find that the plant medicines are far more, yes, deeper.

Speaker 3: 41:27

So I I don't know much about ibogaine or iboga and I read this chart. I was reading this chart the other day that talks about how, with psychedelics, they really open this like window of opportunity for your um mind to change a little bit. It's that like window of like learning, that capacity to rewire neural pathways and make different choices, and the thing that I was reading was kind of comparing them by the amount that the trip, the duration of the trip, correlates to the amount of time that window is open. So, like a an hour long ketamine journey, that window of time is only going to last a day or two. With mushrooms or MDMA, with six to eight hours of a journey, it's going to be, like, you know, several weeks. And then iboga or ibogaine, which is like 24 to 48 hours of a journey, leaves that window of time open for much, much longer. So you have like months to really like integrate and get deep into making changes in your life. Does that like, do you feel like that kind of checks?

Speaker 2: 42:38

Yeah, so I mean I've done a fair amount of psychedelics different types as well, as I just mentioned and definitely nothing was more profound or impactful than a boga. It's a very direct. You go with questions and you ask the questions and you get answers. So, and also during the experience, you have a facilitator with you or at least where I was for a part of it, and she was literally just guiding me through, like my childhood, like okay, we'll start at age three, we'll start at this, like what do you see? And again it was very clear being able to see myself as a child, and like what didn't work for me, like why this? Again this anxiety came about. What didn't work for me, like why this? Again this anxiety came about.

Speaker 2: 43:27

Um, and other events in my life where you know I was, there was a recurring theme of like being blindsided and how that also like provoked my anxiety and like feelings of wanting control. So very, very direct. And then, after the experience, so yeah, it's um, you're like 12 hours in the medicine and then the whole next you don't go to sleep and then the next day you're still in the medicine, but at least you can like walk, Cause you can't really like.

Speaker 2: 43:55

At least I couldn't move during the experience. I mean, some people were standing up and I was like I can't even roll over right now, I have no idea what you're doing.

Speaker 1: 44:04

Are you conscious that, like I'm conscious, like I'm here and this is what I'm doing, and like I, I and like you, consciously knew, like, okay, like I can't do what they're doing, I can't stand, I can't roll over, I can't?

Speaker 2: 44:17

Because for so long, um, I also know, like through my functional training of the little like rhyme, dilution is the solution to pollution, not to say that a bogus pollution. But I was just trying to drink a lot of water during the journey so that it would be over, because it was, it was just, it was so long, so anyway. So I really had to use the bathroom, so I was just laying there, unable to move, because any little micro movement caused such profound nausea. But then eventually, when I went to the bathroom, like someone had to walk me to the bathroom and then walk me back. But yeah, I was, I could open my eyes and you know be present or close my eyes.

Speaker 1: 44:56

So what can you explain what iboga is?

Speaker 3: 44:59

Yeah, and is it different than ibogaine? Yeah, what are the similarities?

Speaker 2: 45:05

to the best of my knowledge, they come from um, the same source, and abogaine, I believe, is like the alkaloid um, so it comes from a tree bark in africa is where it stems from um, and it's again, as far as I know, it's the most powerful psychedelic on planet Earth and has been here basically since Earth was created. So, yeah, it comes from a tree bark and they grind it up and it tastes really bad, like almost good medicines do.

Speaker 1: 45:38

Yeah, ayahuasca was pretty terrible.

Speaker 3: 45:40

Like the time the girl was like it tasted like fruit punch.

Speaker 1: 45:43

We were like you weren't drinking ayahuasca, you didn't have ayahuasca. I don Like the time the girl was like it tasted like fruit punch. We were like you weren't drinking ayahuasca, you didn't have ayahuasca. I don't know what you had, but that wasn't what that was Unless it tastes like dog shit. It wasn't ayahuasca.

Speaker 2: 45:50

That's funny, but yeah, I mean it was wild. So being able to again. She just journeyed me through my childhood and my childhood and then during points of it, I could literally feel it like scrubbing out my brain. And one of the I guess benefits that they noted on was just this like mental clarity and it just like clearing out all the files. And so the day after the journey was pretty much like laid in bed all day and being awake and having this like very stimulating medicine was pretty much like laid in bed all day and being awake and having this like very stimulating medicine was pretty wiped.

Speaker 2: 46:27

But the day after that I have never felt better in my entire life. It was just so incredible, like incredibly different how I felt two days before and I take really good care of my body, so I already felt pretty good going in and just the mental clarity there was literally just like no thoughts. It was thoughtlessness. And then I was practicing yoga and my range of motion was like 10 degrees more. I did purge during the journey and I was like I don't like this is incredible. Like whose body is this, like what is happening? But this, this is so amazing that, yes, it was, you know, a difficult 12 hours, but if this is what's on the other side of it, like, this is such amazing medicine, for sure Do you think like the after part, where you're, you're like I have no thoughts.

Speaker 1: 47:21

I've never felt better, because it's like those 12 hours or however long it takes, you're really doing like the hard work and bringing everything up to the surface and like letting it go. So then it's like your body is finally able, because it's like I like before I did psychedelics there were a lot of things that I understood, like I understood like, okay, yeah, love yourself. Okay, yeah, take care of yourself, take care of your mind, body, spirit.

Speaker 3: 47:51

Yeah, let it go.

Speaker 1: 47:52

Blah, blah, blah, blah, where it's like, but like truly being able to like sit with those uncomfortable feelings. You can't run, you can't avoid them, you can't push them down. They're there and it's like everything comes up and then so, then, after, it's like okay, like I just like release like a hundred pounds of just trauma out of my body, yeah, or the aboga.

Speaker 2: 48:20

I feel like it was really just like the brain scrubbing aspect of it too.

Speaker 2: 48:23

Oh, yeah, literally feeling my brain being scrubbed. But, yeah, the purging I felt was correlated to just how like my body, the range of motion and the trauma that I released there. Yeah, and then, like the last, I don't know it's hard to tell time, obviously, but like four or five hours that was the most difficult for me because I was so exhausted that I couldn't even think of questions to ask anymore. You know, I was like, will we get it, will we have a fourth baby? Which was really curious. And I saw a very clear visual of us walking a dog. So it was like, ok, but I mean, that wasn't in our cards at that time, I had hadn't even got my period back yet.

Speaker 2: 49:06

So, um, so, yeah, really just trying to lay there and like surrender, and I, you know, opened my eyes a million times to see if the sun was coming up. And then finally, I noticed that the music changed because with the Bogots are very loud and very high paced, um, fast paced music that's played the entire time, the traditional music. So at some point I realized that the music switched to more, like you know, journey music. I was like, oh my gosh, wait, what's happening? And then I opened my eyes and finally it was daylight.

Speaker 3: 49:36

It's over. I made it yeah.

Speaker 2: 49:40

Interesting and I just kept watching the facilitator. I'm like okay, call this okay, hang on.

Speaker 3: 49:47

So I do want to say this about iboga and ibogaine. I think it's not talked about enough, but it is one of the only things that can literally reset your opiate receptors too, so it is something that is used in a lot of um with a lot of um additions. Thank you Like heroin and opiate, and that's not being talked about enough. I don't understand why.

Speaker 2: 50:14

Yeah, I mean so my husband did ayahuasca and then he was sober for uh, six months maybe and then he relapsed and then he went and did aboga and that's what separated him from his addiction um. Again, as best to my knowledge, um abigain is known to yeah, help break like that addiction um, and then the aboga really is to understand why the only.

Speaker 3: 50:38

Thing but okay the only thing that I have ever seen about this is like lamar odom's um documentary, who was very addicted to opiates and heroin and he did ketamine first and then he did ibogaine, and watching his journey like because he let them record it, like that was like this giant basketball player of a man having to be carried.

Speaker 3: 51:01

So like you're saying this and I was like, oh yeah, I can see that, because he literally like couldn't walk, he couldn't function in his body but like came out of it and he's no longer addicted, like he's clean and sober now. So that was like really wild to see. Um yeah, that's all I got.

Speaker 1: 51:19

Well. So I was going to ask you. I wanted to do like a little word association. Leah always does this where she talks about like what word each psychedelic like means to her. Or like the energy, or like yeah, the first thing that comes up when you think about this substance, oh, yeah, so like iboga, what's the first thing that comes up when you think about that medicine?

Speaker 2: 51:48

As cheesy as I sound, I would just say truth. So the Bui Tui they have a saying it's Basi. They say that a lot when you go and do iboga and that means truth. So again, very profound experience. And that's really what the Bui Tui they study is basically the meaning of life. So the truth.

Speaker 1: 52:08

What about? What about ayahuasca?

Speaker 2: 52:11

Ooh, I would say more mystical I like that experience Okay.

Speaker 1: 52:16

What about um? I like this game. Uh, what about ketamine?

Speaker 2: 52:23

Hmm, ketamine. I'm trying to think of a good word. I only had to pick one word.

Speaker 3: 52:35

Or phrase. Could it be a phrase? Yeah, I mean for ketamine.

Speaker 2: 52:38

it was just kind of like melting and everything just really slowed down melting and everything just really slowed down. Um and again like a lot of self-love or like self-appreciation.

Speaker 3: 52:49

Okay, I like that. I want to talk about cacao. How? What would be the word for cacao?

Speaker 2: 52:55

Oh, just like love.

Speaker 3: 52:57

Oh, I like that. I love that Heart opening, what we were talking about earlier. So I want to hear about how you use cacao in your practices, and you said that you use it. Um, it can be a really good beginner for people like dipping their toes into psychedelics. We've done it a few times. I have cacao at home. I don't think I use it the way that I am supposed to be using it, though After doing like an actual cacao ceremony, I was like oh, I was literally just like drinking it Like it was you know chocolate with some agave.

Speaker 3: 53:33

You know, like I didn't realize there was an entire intentional practice that should be behind it. So, I guess, help me understand that a little bit more.

Speaker 2: 53:41

Yeah, I will say I am hosting a virtual ceremony in August, so if y'all want to, can you send us the invite.

Speaker 3: 53:47

Yeah, we'll do it.

Speaker 2: 53:49

Okay, Let us know, we'll be there the right cacao, too much like other medicines. You know, cacao is not all created equally. So, um, I'll just tell you quickly my story with cacao. So I was at a retreat for ayahuasca in San Pedro and cacao was being served kind of just like casually in the morning and I didn't really know much about it, I just drank it because it tasted amazing. And then after the retreat it continued to speak to me and I was really curious about going through the practitioner training and had reached out to the facilitator of the retreat about what that looked like. And at that time I was pregnant. So I was like, do I do it now? Do I do it later?

Speaker 2: 54:36

Do I wait till baby's born, ended up doing it after baby was earth side, and even before that I had been sharing it with my family.

Speaker 2: 54:46

We'd been doing cacao ceremonies at home, or anytime someone would come to visit, we would have a cacao ceremony.

Speaker 2: 54:53

And then, once I went through the training though, that's when I started opening up to the community and doing virtual and then also local events here in North Carolina, and for me cacao has been so wonderful Again, being a very busy mom of four, having my cacao in the morning and having that practice, just to have literally five minutes to sit with it in silence, really helps ground me for the day and soften the edges, if you will, so that no matter what happens after that point and if the whole day unravels at least, I know I had those few moments first thing in the morning with my delicious and nourishing beverage where I was just really present with it and with myself so much like the other medicines.

Speaker 2: 55:43

Now, being able to pick it forward and share it with other people has been so incredible and people are just having, you know, even really like deep experiences with cacao. It really just depends on how open you are and having really incredible results with my clients, the ones who I think will actually go forward with it. Oftentimes I will give them some cacao and then give them a very brief ritual to go through and have them be able to experience, because it is a really great integration tool for people who are, if they had a recent psychedelic journey or if they're going through a ketamine series, to just have something with you that's kind of by your side throughout this whole process, that you can, you know, have daily, where you're still getting insights and even just feel support from the cacao. So it can be a really great addition for anyone who's, you know, currently going through a series or an upcoming journey.

Speaker 3: 56:42

I was a little bit confused before we went on. I'm not going to lie, and now I understand it, because I was like how in the world can it be the same as like kind of dipping your toes into psychedelics? But I, after hearing this, I'm like okay, I wasn't, I was just drinking it, I didn't have a practice.

Speaker 2: 57:11

I didn't have a ritual surrounding it, but hearing you say all of that, I'm like, oh my God, that probably is, like I mean, that's what was missing, like I didn't have that, yeah, and so it is psychoactive, not psychedelic. So really, again, just educating people on that. So it more creates shifts in how you think and feel. I only use and recommend Keith's cacao. He's the original chocolate shaman and he says that cacao will take you to the door but you have to be willing to go there, versus, like ayahuasca, it's pulling you through the door like whether you want to go or not.

Speaker 1: 57:35

Oh, I love that. I like that a lot.

Speaker 2: 57:38

Yeah, so again, a lot of heart opening, very much connected to yourself, others, nature. It has so many nutritional benefits. Fun fact, it's the most nutritionally dense superfood on the planet, so number one source of antioxidants magnesium.

Speaker 3: 57:57

I didn't know that We've been doing it wrong, Christine.

Speaker 2: 58:01

And then it's also really high in phenylethylamine and oh, my mind is escaping me right now phenylethylamine and anantamide. So those are known as love and bliss chemicals. So again. That's why it really gives you that high and blissful feeling. Also really helps with mental clarity. Goal-directed task completion. I mean basically like all the things right.

Speaker 3: 58:26

Oh, my God.

Speaker 2: 58:27

Everyone should drink it and it's safe for kids. So again, it's a really beautiful thing that we've incorporated with our family. We have little medicine kids in training, so they-.

Speaker 3: 58:37

I love that.

Speaker 2: 58:38

We love our Good Cow Ceremony days. It's just such a great day for connection and everyone's in great spirits. So it really just such a great day for connection and everyone's in great spirits. So it really just sets the tone.

Speaker 3: 58:46

Can I ask you how you do that with your family? Is it like a? Like? It's really hard these days. I know I was just watching a show the other night that was talking about how his family does sit down meals every single night and I'm like we are so busy that does not happen the way that it should. So do you just like set aside a time every day? Is it weekly Like? What does that look like for you guys?

Speaker 2: 59:11

The family kick-off.

Speaker 3: 59:12

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 59:12

So usually we'll do like once a month, like on a Saturday, and we'll just kind of randomly like, okay, we haven't done a kick-off ceremony this month or in a while. So, yeah, it usually takes up our whole morning. Yeah, we, you know, clear the space and then we usually open with just kind of checking in how everyone's feeling. The kids like get the room set up. We use my daughter's room which kind of doubles as like their bedroom, the homeschool space and the cacao ceremony space, so they get the space already and like the altar and they love that. And then, yeah, we just kind of check in. We drink the medicine, we usually sit or lie in silence for some time or listen to music for maybe like 15 minutes. The kids have gotten really good. Each time we bump up the quiet time and then after we share and then we all just kind of like dance and pick a song on the Alexa and then we have a little brunch. So it's like the best day.

Speaker 1: 1:00:11

That's the best. Thing ever.

Speaker 3: 1:00:13

I want to be in this family.

Speaker 2: 1:00:14

I do too. And then I forgot, before we close we always draw our animal spirit cards too, or some sort of from deck. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:00:22

I have one child who is into this stuff the way that I am, and the other two I. I say this and I mean it, but I don't, but like I started way too late in this space yeah they're older one's about to be 12 and one is 16 and they think I'm wackadoodle.

Speaker 3: 1:00:41

And well, I am. I am but my daughter. You know, this whole journey started when she was born for me, so she is so in it, like, so connected, like believes in magic, all the things like she does these types of things with me and it makes me sad that I can't have that with everybody. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, they see me doing it, so maybe they'll marry someone who does it too.

Speaker 1: 1:01:09

Yeah, and this isn't a question. You marry your mom, right, right. This isn't a question, but it's just commentary. Like there, um is a lot of. There are a lot of men in this space we often have noticed, and so to hear like another mom in this space doing this and doing this with their kids, it's just like it's very heartwarming. So, I just had to say that.

Speaker 2: 1:01:34

Yeah, and we were super open with them too, like if we're ever, you know, going to a ceremony, what we're doing or, you know, even like at home, like it's very open, versus like in my upbringing it was very like things weren't talked about. So, yeah, just being able to open it up with them and being really honest with them, and also in our continued healing and growth, like when we make mistakes, being able to own up for it and be like hey, that wasn't cool, I'm sorry about that.

Speaker 3: 1:02:05

You know, I love this guy for you guys, like your whole family has kind of like, can I ask, did you always want to homeschool or was that a decision that came post? Psychedelics, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:02:19

Uh no, I always did. Um, I always wanted to like, find like the magic solution to get me out of my, you know, nine to five so I could have the freedom to be at home with my kids or have more time with them, because, especially going through infertility treatments, I wish that upon no one. It was like hell on earth and wanting kids so bad, and then getting them and be like, and now I have to go to work. This is lame, even though I was really lucky, I only worked part-time after my girls were born, but so no, it happened in COVID. I have twin daughters and they were in kindergarten at the time and then when they came home and they're like yeah, we're going to do virtual, you know, we're going to do kindergarten, you know we're going to do um kindergarten virtually from home and I was like 0% chance that's happening.

Speaker 2: 1:03:08

My five-year-olds are not going to sit at home in front of a computer while I'm at work and learn like we're pulling the plug on this. Um, and then it was all like the school was open, the school was closed, so that, just you know, really validated it and luckily, my employer at the time was also very supportive and she had a family, so, yeah, supported my decision to start homeschooling them and so that's kind of what started it for us and luckily, ever since that I've been able to continue and my husband and I now we do it together. So this past year he joined, so he teaches a subject and I teach a few. And, yeah, every year I ask them to if they want to continue or if they want to go to public school. And last year one of my girls expressed wanting to go to public school, but after rationalizing with her a little bit more, she decided not to. I think she wanted to just go because one of like our next door neighbor or friend was there.

Speaker 1: 1:04:10

But they realized that they have it pretty good in homeschool. I feel like it's kind of the new wave and it's different than what. Like a lot of it has kind of like psychedelics, but people think of homeschooling like back in the day to maybe shelter kids from their kids, from other things.

Speaker 3: 1:04:29

I think it has a lot of religious undertones to it yeah, even like where I feel like it's changed so much in the louisville area for like homeschool for us where we are.

Speaker 3: 1:04:40

It was like every single homeschool pod or website that popped up was like a religious group and I was like I don't want to do that either. So it's really, I think, it's hard to find the resources. Everybody says it's easy to find the resources, but I disagree because I've tried to find just people in this area who know what it is without the religious context.

Speaker 2: 1:05:09

Yeah, yeah, and I mean it's a lot of trial and error too. I mean I would say our first year was, like you know, kind of a shit show, and that was before I had done much healing some, but it was pre-aboga and that's really what changed for me in like teaching and just really parenting in general. But yeah, it's a lot of, yeah, trial and error, but it's super fun. It is a lot of work, that's for sure. It would be so much easier just to send them to school and be like, okay, I'm going to work for four hours in the morning, you know, instead of cramming it all in one day, but super rewarding. You know, like I taught my daughters how to read, right now I'm teaching my son how to read and then really being able to teach them things that are important or that we think are important, versus what someone else is saying, like you have to read, or you have to learn this way, or or like one of my daughters just isn't great at taking tests, or like time tests. So I know that she would not do well in that setting where now it seems like it is so standardized and there's so much testing done. I mean, even sometimes, like last year.

Speaker 2: 1:06:18

The girls were in fourth grade and it's kind of getting to the point. Sometimes the math is challenging at times. There was a day we were doing challenging word problems and I was like, guys, I can't solve these. I'm telling you right now you will never need to know this. So we're not doing this today. And they're like what I'm kidding? I'm like, if I can't figure it out and I've never applied this to my life, I think you're going to be OK.

Speaker 3: 1:06:43

I love that.

Speaker 2: 1:06:44

I love that too.

Speaker 3: 1:06:45

They're learning a lot of stuff that I'm like. I don't know how to help you with that. Go ask your dad.

Speaker 1: 1:06:49

Yeah, yeah, I'll be that mom. My son's four, but I will be that mom too.

Speaker 3: 1:06:54

I am 100% that mom.

Speaker 2: 1:06:56

I'm like I am not smarter than a fifth grader right now.

Speaker 3: 1:07:05

I to figure this out. So I am smarter than a fifth grader in life. Okay, like I may not know how to do common core math, but that was irrelevant to living my life. Okay, don't mean that as going.

Speaker 1: 1:07:14

Going off the homeschool topic, you earlier mentioned, san Pedro. Can you talk about what that is, how that experience was?

Speaker 2: 1:07:24

Can you talk about what that is, how that experience was? Yeah, so a St Pedro comes from a cactus that basically just sits in the sun all day, so it's a great medicine to do during the day, especially in the sun. So when I did it in a ceremonial setting a little over a year ago was in the Southwest of the United States, so in the desert. Ago was in the Southwest of the United States, so in the desert, um, and it was actually following um to ayahuasca. So we had two ayahuasca ceremonies and then a San Pedro the next day. Um, I was actually pregnant at the time, so I didn't do a full dose of the San Pedro.

Speaker 1: 1:07:57

Oh, we have to talk about that. Yeah, put a pin in that.

Speaker 2: 1:08:27

Okay, I also didn't do a full of the ayahuasca. I did do two cups the first night and then one medium cup or dose the second night. So I didn't take a ton of medicine of the San Pedro just considering. But it was still a very beautiful day and I had a lot of um for me.

Speaker 2: 1:08:32

I was pregnant at the time and when I found out I was pregnant, my husband and I were in like the thralls of like his PTSD and, um, yeah, he was going through um, he was actually microdosing psilocybin and going through EMDR. So it was like super intense and it was a really, really difficult time for us and we really honestly didn't know if we were going to make it. And then, like four days later, I found out I was just like magically pregnant and I was like I have no idea what's happening right now with my life and there was a lot of doubt and just genuine concern about like is this a good time to bring a child into this birth? Yet it is a direct miracle and testament to my journey. So it was really hard those first few weeks and really just trying to make the right decision. So I had a lot of guilt about that and knowing what I know about healing, like, oh my gosh, this baby's going to come into the world and and think that his mom didn't want him or there was uncertainty, and I just had so much forgiveness for myself and connection to the baby.

Speaker 2: 1:09:33

Um, during my San Pedro experience, just like so many tears wept and connecting with him and him, just knowing that I was trying to make you know the right decision and take my time with it, and just how much like I loved him already and how connected we were and just him being there with me through that experience made it a lot less scary.

Speaker 2: 1:09:55

Knowing I had like a passenger with me and just you know, having so much love for him, for trusting me and for allowing me to, you know, do that with him. So, yeah, it was really beautiful and I look forward to I've done it um. Other um other times um, oftentimes we'll go on hikes um as a family, and my husband and I will. We have some at home. We have a cactus um, but nothing like the dose that I did there. But yeah, it's just a really beautiful gentle medicine. It's certainly not as deep as, say, ayahuasca or aboga, but really, you know, connection to earth at being I mean all of these being plant medicines, but being particularly something that just sits in the ground and gets blasted by the sun all day ground and gets blasted by the sun all day.

Speaker 1: 1:10:48

I did not realize until we talked on the phone that you could do ayahuasca while pregnant.

Speaker 2: 1:10:51

Yeah, that one is a new one for me.

Speaker 1: 1:10:52

And I can't imagine like that connection that you would feel using that kind of medicine to your baby.

Speaker 2: 1:11:00

Yeah, um, it had been calling me for a while and it just kept. I kept like like missing it with this one facilitator that I wanted to sit with. You know, she took a leave and then she had some personal things and then anyway, so it came up for me again and just happened to be pregnant and I reached out to a different, a different facilitator who she had actually trained under, and spoke with her on the phone about it and she said, yeah, like, it's totally safe, the baby is not affected whatsoever, it doesn't cross the placenta, um, and it's best to do it in the second trimester, which would be exactly where I was when the ceremony was happening. So I was like, well, I'm definitely not going to have any time to do it when baby's on the other side, for, you know, at least two years probably until I can leave them.

Speaker 2: 1:11:53

So I mean, if she says, it's cool, I mean I'm sure people in the Amazon are doing it all the time yeah so true, yeah so true, yeah so and it um. Actually I I was like 20 weeks when I went um and the first time I felt baby move was like as soon as I got there. So that was kind of cool.

Speaker 1: 1:12:11

Oh my gosh, let's get pregnant.

Speaker 3: 1:12:14

You go right ahead. I'm good. No, I'm good. No offense, I love my kids. I'm just done. I know I'm done. Yeah, it's been a lot. Okay. I have a few last questions for you. How do you view the future of psychedelics and mainstream medicine, and what changes would you like to see in the healthcare system regarding the acceptance and the use of psychedelics? Good, question.

Speaker 2: 1:12:44

Yeah, I think that we are like part of a movement and I think that there is like this wave that is happening right now, particularly with MDMA and psilocybin and ketamine and these things being legalized or decriminalized or what have you. So I do think a lot more people are using them to heal and having really, really amazing results. Whether or not they're working with a coach, at least they're opening up their eyes to what is possible, and my hope is people like myself particularly that are medical professionals, to really be able to advocate for the safe use of these medicines and how they can be used therapeutically to really do far more than any pharmaceutical could do ever.

Speaker 3: 1:13:33

I truly believe like there is good and bad in everything and for the people who are arguing that it could like do so much damage, I really think that, like, education is the biggest part of that. Yeah, because in the same way that, like you know, taking prescription meds, if you take it as directed, it may have less side effects or less um, there's a lot less damage that it could do. But if you go outside of the prescription, like, it could do a lot more damage. You could become addicted. You know it could do much more than just the usual side effects if you go outside of that prescriptive list. So what if we could live in a world where I hate to say prescriptive, because I don't like lumping it into the same category as pharmaceuticals, but like if you just know the medicine and understand the dosing and the setting, and that if you do it outside of this prescriptive case, a lot more damage could happen? So why can't we talk about the safe way to do these things?

Speaker 2: 1:14:47

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 1:14:49

I don't know, I just feel like that's. I'm really big on that.

Speaker 2: 1:14:54

Yeah, for sure. No, I definitely feel that it does come down to educating people on how this is different than, again, just doing it recreationally, and you're going to get a very different response when you're going to get a very different response when you're going into it with preparation and attention and respect, versus just doing it like haphazardly and buying it from some guy off the street Like that's definitely not recommended Right or the internet. I have clients that will ask me about, like buying mushrooms off the internet. I was, like I do not support that. Like please don't do that.

Speaker 3: 1:15:25

Like could we also agree that, like not all medical professionals with degrees know everything about everything?

Speaker 2: 1:15:37

Yeah, and even I see in ketamine too, some clinics are more spiritual. The vast majority majority of them, I would say are just very clinical and it's even just like how the clinic feels. And also just talking with the owners, um, because I've talked to quite a few different ketamine clinics, or the physicians there, and um, and just they see that these medicines work but they don't know like everything that goes into it to making the experience actually like the most successful.

Speaker 3: 1:16:11

They're turning into pain clinics.

Speaker 2: 1:16:13

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:16:14

Yeah, we talked with someone who owns.

Speaker 2: 1:16:18

Or like IV nutrients or something.

Speaker 3: 1:16:21

Yeah, you just go in and get it as needed nutrients or something. Yeah, you just go in and get it as needed. We talked with someone and asked you know, who does own a very we think holistic practice with ketamine and they have this holistic approach. And one of the things he said when looking for a ketamine clinic if they're not accessible to you is like, do they work from a psychedelic framework? Are they talking preparation, integration? Are they supporting you through this journey? Is their goal to help heal you or are they just trying to get you in for these treatments and we'll see you back in six weeks for your other wins and you're going to keep coming back because you don't know what to do with it when you come out of here. So, yeah, I see that a lot too in the ketamine world happening.

Speaker 2: 1:17:04

It's unfortunate.

Speaker 3: 1:17:05

Yeah, it is unfortunate.

Speaker 2: 1:17:09

Luckily, the place that I'm collaborating with here locally, the physician sees me and anytime I have a suggestion he's like whatever you think is best. He's like you know better than I do. I'm just overseeing and making sure that everything is safe, like I love that if you, if we need to have noise canceling, headphones in the room and a spotify playlist like, just let me know I love that being heard.

Speaker 3: 1:17:36

That's my, like, absolute favorite thing, and so not all medical professionals know anything about psychedelics either. So that's like a big one. So somebody was saying the other day well, you know, I have PTSD, so I am high risk, and my psychiatrist would say absolutely not, I can never do psychedelics. And I'm like what does he know about psychedelics? So like I don't know. Actually you need psychedelics, Right? I was like if anything that makes you a candidate like that doesn't mean you're high risk, Like if you should find a psychiatrist, who, who works specifically with the medicine, who to tell you yes or no before you jump on that judgment.

Speaker 1: 1:18:18

Well, and it's like how many Western medicine doctors you know you go to and they don't talk to you about your diet. And they don't talk to you about your diet. They don't talk to you about your stress. They don't talk to you about your sleep. They don't talk to you about, like, your trauma. They don't talk to you about your food, Like, so you know, like they know what they know, but they don't necessarily know everything, Right.

Speaker 2: 1:18:39

Right, yeah, and again. So when I went through my functional training like I said earlier, just like relearning everything from a way that made sense it was like why didn't I learn this the first time, when I paid $160,000 to go to PA school? And now I'm paying a fraction of a cost and now it makes sense? It's like this is ridiculous.

Speaker 3: 1:18:59

I kind of love that you have been in both worlds. I absolutely love that. It's also like I love that you have been in both worlds, like, yeah, I absolutely love that. It's also like why didn't I have a period for 20 years and how come nobody could ever tell me what was going on? And then the minute I started working internally and like changing my life and doing all these like positive things and making positive changes, like it came like, that is whoever suggested that to you? Did you ever have anybody suggest like hey, maybe your husband should get sober and maybe you should do this, and maybe you know?

Speaker 2: 1:19:35

like nobody's doing that. I went through fertility treatments. I did see an acupuncturist because I had a friend who went through um fertility treatments and said that acupuncture was really helpful for her Um, and he's the only one who said like maybe you should start running less, maybe you should start like increasing your protein. And for me acupuncture was just a go, a way to go and just like check out and it really did help my stress and anxiety. And luckily, though, as much as kind of bash on Western medicine, modern medicine is extremely helpful and advanced and without it I wouldn't have my three oldest children, so I am very grateful for it. I do feel that there is a time and a place for it, for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:20:15

I love that Best of both worlds.

Speaker 1: 1:20:18

Can you share any type of success story that you've had with the clients that you've worked with?

Speaker 2: 1:20:26

Yeah, let me think of so I have actually the one that comes to mind my most recent client. I started working with her probably just like two weeks ago and the first time I spoke to her she had already signed up to do her ketamine infusions and usually I meet with clients twice before their infusions anyway, so this was just kind of like our initial phone meet and greet, and she already had a suicide plan. Like this was her last resort.

Speaker 2: 1:20:53

And if this didn't work, then she was going to go through with her plan, so obviously severely depressed, PTSD, adhd, autistic, so much trauma, sexual trauma.

Speaker 2: 1:21:07

And by her fourth ketamine session. So this was like maybe 10 days later she said the thought of suicide was boring, like, and she has completely changed, like she's looking for jobs. She like came in wearing a dress you know had actually started, um like moving and taking steps to create this workshop. Um, she was a circus aerialist, so to actually help other circus performers heal from their trauma, because, from what I understand, it's a very traumatic environment there, um, and so she wanted to start doing the ketamine first and then we're going to work on the nutrition later. And I also introduced her to cacao and she had a really beautiful experience with it when she was visited by a deceased pet actually, so really just being able to work with her and again having her talk to someone that wasn't her extremely like narcissistic, controlling family, and giving her some frameworks to think about and some action steps to incorporate into her life and just being there for her really, because no one had been, uh, and knowing that I can.

Speaker 2: 1:22:26

I can take it and I will sage myself afterwards. Um, but it was just so incredible. Her, her journey, just in short, such a short period of time. She has her last infusion on um this Friday, so someone went from literally like extreme one side now to the other side. There's not even thinking about that whatsoever and just thinking about like what is her purpose here and how can she make a bigger impact in this world?

Speaker 3: 1:22:55

That's beautiful.

Speaker 1: 1:22:56

I love that so much.

Speaker 3: 1:22:58

Is your husband also in this space with you Like, does he have a role in helping? Um, he does.

Speaker 2: 1:23:07

So he has written and published two books on his experiences with psychedelics Um. The first one just kind of his, his journey um you can plug it, plug it.

Speaker 1: 1:23:17

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:23:17

Miraculous.

Speaker 2: 1:23:19

Okay, and then the second book is called the Mushroom Chronicles, also Ryan Graves, available on Amazon, and that one documents his journey microdosing while going through the EMDR. So that whole like very turbulent time is documented in a story.

Speaker 3: 1:23:38

Wow, okay, we are going to link those Link in bio.

Speaker 2: 1:23:45

And he also serves as a coach and is a Buitui initiate. So he's been initiated into the Aboga tradition and hold space for some medicines as well.

Speaker 3: 1:23:55

I love that you guys are such a healing family. Yeah, like I really want to live there.

Speaker 1: 1:24:00

Now you said that you had the cacao ceremony coming up in August. Anything else that you have to offeracao ceremony coming up um in August, anything else that you have to offer, or how can people find you?

Speaker 2: 1:24:08

Yeah, so my website, um, mostly talks about, um, a lot of the nutritional aspect. I haven't gone forced to like completely revamp it, but it does include all my services, um, the functional healercom, also on Instagram, the functional healer Um. You can check that out and see pictures of my adorable fam, um. And then, yeah, I do have the virtual cacao ceremony. I can send you the link to sign up for that. Um, that's happening August 4th, on a Sunday morning on a new moon, so I think it's a that theme is manifesting more fun.

Speaker 3: 1:24:42

Oh, I know I'm like okay, but first we need to sign up before we left this out to the masses. So, like, send us the link and we will add that as well. And honestly, like I am like enthralled everything that you're doing. I'm like I could talk to you for hours.

Speaker 2: 1:25:01

My favorite, my favorite thing is I also um, I um also created a online program for women, um, the burnout recovery system, which is a 12 week program to help women go from, you know, burnt out to living vibrant and full of energy. So, um, I previously was like really big and that was, like you know, my role for a while, but now that I've really switched over not switched over, but now, I guess, given myself permission to really just follow this psychedelic path and have this be like what it is that I'm talking about and promoting for myself and on social media. I've kind of put that on the back burner, but it is there and it's available and it's a really great program um, to follow a 12 week um regarding um, very specific dietary lifestyle tips to go from, like I said, burnt out to thriving.

Speaker 1: 1:25:57

I'm curious about, and I can email you after this, but I'm curious about that for my, for myself.

Speaker 3: 1:26:03

I was literally staring you down.

Speaker 1: 1:26:06

I know, yeah, I'm trying to get you to. The burnout is real yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:26:12

Yeah absolutely.

Speaker 1: 1:26:14

Okay, okay, yeah, I'll reach out to you. Oh, I remember what I was going to say, but it's I like these interviews are so healing for us. I'm speaking for you, yeah, no, uh, because I feel like every interview is truly integration work for us and it's very healing. So thank you.

Speaker 3: 1:26:39

Thank you so much Thank you for giving today.

Speaker 1: 1:26:41

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:26:41

Yeah, oh my gosh, you do this all day, and to all of our listeners um, I'm happy you guys got to meet. I was super excited. This has been awesome. Reach out to Stephanie through her Instagram or website. Link everything Absolutely. Stay curious, be open and we'll see you guys on the other side. Bye.