S8 EP5: Bruno Marques, Biophilic Benefit

Bruno's experience as Programme Director for Landscape Architecture, Deputy Head of School for Architecture and Director of Postgraduate Programmes, President of the International Federation of Landscape Architects and the Associate Dean (Academic Development) at the Faculty of Architecture and Design Innovation of Victoria University of Wellington helps capture a unique view for biophilic design.

If you'd like to learn more about the AHDC, please connect with us on our website www.aushdc.org.au or on LinkedIn at linkedin.com/company/aushdc.

Transcript

David Cummins: G'day and welcome to the AHDC podcast series, Health Design on the Go. I'm your host, David Cummins, and today we are speaking to Dr Bruno Marques, who is a president of the International Federation of Landscape Architects, and has spent over 15 years teaching both undergrads and postgrads in New Zealand.

[00:00:33] Bruno is a Program Director of Landscape Architecture, Deputy Head of School for Architecture and Director of Post-grad Programs. We welcome Bruno today as part of our Biophilic Benefits series, and look forward to hearing more about some of the benefits of nature on oneself and the community.

[00:00:49] Welcome Bruno. Thank you for your time to be here. 

[00:00:51] Bruno Marques: Oh, thank you David for the invitation. It's my pleasure to join you in the podcast today. 

[00:00:56] David Cummins: I must admit didn't know there was an International Federation of Landscape Architects. Who is part of this Federation and how big is the community? 

[00:01:04] Bruno Marques: Oh, that's a good question.

[00:01:05] So the International Federation of Landscape Architects was established in Cambridge, England in 1946, 6 months after the International Union of Architects was established. So IFLA (as the acronym) is the body that represents landscape architecture globally. 

[00:01:24] So we have the equivalent of about 50,000 landscape architects across 77 member associations. So it's a little bit like the United Nations model, where the professional body from a country applies to become a member of IFLA and therefore other membership automatically is part of IFLA. 

[00:01:47] So we have 77, national Institutes of landscape architects or national associations of landscape architects across the globe.

[00:01:56] We are organised in five geographical regions; Europe, the Americas Asia Pacific, Africa and the Middle East. And yeah, so we've been around for a little while. 

[00:02:07] David Cummins: It's very impressive. I must admit I didn't know that. But I've been building healthcare or been in construction development for over 15 years.

[00:02:16] And the one thing I do know about landscape architecture is that it is always cut out of budget. Everyone always forgets about it. Everyone always disrespects it. Everyone always thinks we don't have the money. Let's cut that out and just paint the concrete green and that's generally how it's been for the last 15 or so years.

[00:02:36] More recently, especially during these podcasts, you hear more and more research come out of it. You hear more and more benefits. You hear pretty much the benefit for not only patients community and oneself, but something that you've always known, but no one's really connected the two dots.

[00:02:51] There does seem to be this surge of research about the importance of it. So, What advice would you give for people who have been building buildings in the past and are doing their designs now about the importance of landscape architecture to not only oneself to patients and to community? 

[00:03:07] What is something that you would like to make sure that is not cut out of budgets. 

[00:03:11] Bruno Marques: A couple of things that are relevant here. Landscape architecture has come a long way, and we are slowly moving away from that stereotype that we are all gardeners and someone who would come and fix your backyard. 

[00:03:25] From 15 years being in this profession, I haven't done a garden in my life. So here, landscape architecture is really trying to tackle all the important issues that affects our daily lives. 

[00:03:36] Most of our discussions are around issues of climate change and adaptation of health and wellbeing. And with the latest pandemic, the health and wellbeing became something of very importance because as we were deprived from being outdoors, we're locked in our houses. 

[00:03:54] And most of what people missed was to be outdoors in nature and to have that sense of refuge and connection.

[00:04:01] But other things that are also important for landscape architecture, now the idea of food security. Where are we producing and securing our food to feed our urban environments? Also our communities, how are we engaging with ethnic diversity and different in the pride communities and making them as parts of our cities, our communities at large, and also in particular, , to Australia in New Zealand engaging with our traditional knowledge and indigenous communities.

[00:04:32] All of that became quite an important set of pillars for the profession. 

[00:04:38] You are absolutely right. Once gap architecture tends to be the thing that is cut first in any project yet, it should be the first thing to be considered because if you think that all our house houses and buildings, they actually sitting on a landscape.

[00:04:54] So we need to understand the impact of our built environment, of our built infrastructure on that same landscape. 

[00:05:00] We are reminded daily and we just have the unfortunate set of events in New Zealand recently of massive floods, that's all the impact of planning cities without really considering our natural systems, without considering our waterways, without considering public open spaces.

[00:05:17] And yet every time there is a catastrophe, those places become very important. Those are the places where people congregate and mourn for all the bad things that happen. It's a shift in mentality that needs to happen. And slowly it's happening across the built environments professions to understand that we should actually start with landscape.

[00:05:38] We need to protect that assets. If we don't have it, we can't have our cities, we can't have our water to drink, we can't have our food to eat. And a lot has happened over the last 20 years where countries where they have placed landscape at the forefront and they have thought about.

[00:05:56] Nature-based solutions, they are ahead of the game in terms of climate adaptation, sustainability issues and stuff like that. I definitely think that landscape architecture is the profession of the 21st century where regardless if you like it or not any built environment professional, we need to engage with it. 

[00:06:14] It's part of our daily life. We can't have cities without landscapes. And it starts all at your own backyard at home, how can I have those spaces that would actually foster my health and wellbeing contributes to the sustainability and green infrastructure of cities to then public open spaces to then to our peri-urban and rural areas that fit into that as well.

[00:06:39] So it's a continuum of things that need to be understood and they're all interrelated. And that's primarily the difference with landscape architecture is that is a systems thinking approach and they are all interrelated. 

[00:06:52] We can't see them in isolation. While some of other affiliated built environment disciplines tend to see things in isolation, we need to see them holistically.

[00:07:01] David Cummins: You're a hundred percent right. There is also these benefits for staff retention for patient care, for reducing anxiety. But how does one argue if you want landscape architecture to be one of the number one talking points for a feasibility and design when a hospital or a space has limited space and they've got this beautiful garden out there?

[00:07:23] What logically happens most of the time is that someone sees that space and puts a building on it because they've run out of space in the building. They're over capacity, they've just got money from the government or from their investors, and they need to build something to maintain their business.

[00:07:39] So knowing that space is a premium, knowing that a lot of buildings are landlocked and knowing that space is prime land, what can we do as designers to incorporate that land but incorporate landscape architecture knowing that there's a very high chance that land's going to go, although we could argue it shouldn't?

[00:08:01] But what can we do as designers to try and maintain landscape architecture, to maintain biophilic benefits, to hit that balance knowing we are probably going to take that land, which I know you don't want us to take it, but we probably are. 

[00:08:13] You are just hitting the nail on the head on that one. It's a compromise isn't it. We can definitely take that land and develop it into a building of any sorts of shape and form. But also we can look at that land as a potential catalyst for something else. 

[00:08:28] Bruno Marques: And so much research that's out there currently shows that at least 20 to 30% of our chronic diseases can be mitigated by access to nature. So having that garden, outside from the door helps patients to feel better. 

[00:08:43] Helps the healing process, helps reducing the pressure on hospital beds. And there's other things we can do. We don't need only the land that's on the ground to become green or to be a sort of garden. 

[00:08:55] You can look into other strategies. You can look into green walls, you can look into rooftop gardens, you can walk into greenery indoors. But it's proved scientifically in many types of research so far that access to green, access to fresh air, having seen nature through the window, all of those things contribute to your health and wellbeing, and that reduces the taxpayer pressure on health services that tend to be overburdened quite significantly, across many countries.

[00:09:24] It's a shift in perspective in terms of saying, "yeah I can add the building there and add 300,000 different hospital beds, or I can have a asset here that reduces the cost and speeds up recovery and rehabilitation" and we are starting seeing some examples of that in hospitals that change their approach.

[00:09:42] Not only hospitals, but also prison environments where they start addressing the outdoor space of the prison cells as a way to allow rehabilitation and therapy to happen and allow inmates to, be reintegrated easily to society and you also see that a lot in hospitals coming across.

[00:10:03] So it may be not the cheapest solution, but definitely in the long term it's probably the most profitable that we have 

[00:10:12] David Cummins: You've just talked about the benefits of connecting to nature within the hospital, but also for patients, most hospitals will not allow fresh live plants in the hospital because of an infection control because of aspergillus, because of mold, because of whatever it may be.

[00:10:28] So how do we bring nature indoors? Whilst maintaining and respect and infection control protocols of a hospital to maintain patient safety? 

[00:10:38] Bruno Marques: It's a tricky one because definitely you can't bring nature into operational theatre, for instance. It may cause more harm than actually helping anyway.

[00:10:46] We start seeing a lot of synergies between building sciences in terms of looking at proper and efficient ventilation systems, allowing nature to be contained and on display and not to contaminate the entire hospital areas. You're also starting to look a lot at plants that don't have any issues with pests that can't pose and harm to people.

[00:11:10] You start also looking a lot at materials that are more bio-conscious and sustainable in their approach. So, we are getting towards an area where you start seeing some results in terms of having nature indoors without posing a threat to patients. And again, it's all about the way the internal space is conceived and prototyped.

[00:11:33] There is ways to condition access to certain areas where many patients at risk can't really be in certain areas, while others can benefit from it. So it's that intersection between what landscape architecture knows, with interior architects, with architects, with building scientists, that we can really, if we work together, we can really come up with interesting design solutions that are cutting edge and don't really put anyone at harm.

[00:12:00] David Cummins: It was interesting you just said the nature-based solution as opposed to landscape based solutions. So when you refer to the word nature, what opportunities are there versus just plants and grass? 

[00:12:11] What do you actually mean by nature that we can incorporate or bring into healthcare? 

[00:12:15] Bruno Marques: Imagine like, you having a sensorial experience where all your senses are activated.

[00:12:21] When you go outside and you breathe the fresh air, you touch the soil and the textures, you have contact with water. So nature is way more than just trees or plants or shrubs. It's also having life represented at large. Having water, having insects, having birds.

[00:12:39] Many of the studies that we know about the importance of nature is actually even little things like hearing birds singing on outside from your window of seeing them or seeing any other sort of animals. But also some people is really that activation of their senses.

[00:12:55] It's that smell of wet soil after rain, that it's so characteristic. We need to bring more than just plants. It's having as much access to nature and trying to mimic natural processes and ecosystems in our design. 

[00:13:10] So we are not only exposing people to that and the benefits of nature, but also we are contributing to local ecosystems, to sustainability and the resilience of our urban environments. There's a lot we can do. 

[00:13:23] David Cummins: So there's no reason we couldn't have an aquarium within a hospital, which counterbalances the infection control procedures. It is generally water, but it's self-contained water. But it gives the benefit of outdoor indoor light, but also connection to nature versus just plants.

[00:13:37] Bruno Marques: Correct. Absolutely. And you now how much water is relevant and important, even for thermal comfort of indoor, of the buildings, to maintain temperatures and stuff like that as it accumulates and releases heat.

[00:13:50] There's so many things that we're just scratching the surface in terms of what potentially could be.

[00:13:54] And I think sometimes it's because, our stakeholders and local councils and all of those people they might have a limited view of what they could use. And sometimes they downgrade it that, oh, it's just about putting some plants or trees or stuff. But it's way more than that.

[00:14:15] And our ecosystems don't work in isolation normally. Right? It's not only about plants, it's plants, it's the soil, it's the microbes, it's the air, it's the sun. All these kind of things are important and , again, if you're look into biophilic solutions, that definitely is the way forward.

[00:14:31] David Cummins: You talked also earlier about the benefit of nature on a roof or a rooftop. So the few buildings I've done where they've tried to have some form of rooftop access have generally had rolled out very bad plastic grass, an okay view, and a few plastic plants. 

[00:14:52] So I hear what they were trying to do there, but it just didn't work.

[00:14:56] How important is the difference between real plants, real grass versus plastic grass or is something better than nothing.

[00:15:02] What would you recommend? 

[00:15:04] Bruno Marques: I don't think the artificial stuff is going to ever going to be able to replace the real stuff. Right? That's an unfortunate situation and mostly happens unfortunately on projects where there's budget cuts or there's bad planning overall. 

[00:15:17] Sometimes also when buildings are conceived unfortunately there's structural components that are not taken into consideration early on to allow the weight of having a rooftop garden, there's extra issues of structural components. 

[00:15:30] And sometimes it's also decision, there's no budget to invest in such things, but I don't think you have the same benefits. Rooftop gardens are generally used as thermal comfort for buildings to rely less on heating and cooling.

[00:15:44] Because they're maintain a more stable temperature throughout the year. And of course you have all the flora and the fauna that can interact with your rooftop garden, you can produce food. 

[00:15:54] There's many examples of that being used in schools where they pretty much cater for the entire local canteens with the food they produce in the rooftops.

[00:16:04] And that's the strategy for cities that are very dense, that don't have room for outdoor spaces where that's used quite heavily as well. So I don't think, it's the same thing having a replacement artificial grass rather than having the real deal hahaha.

[00:16:19] David Cummins: Yeah, I just had to ask the question because some people are saying it's better than nothing, but I'm not a hundred percent convinced.

[00:16:25] Bruno Marques: There is some studies that shows you that having something that's green is soothing and healing in itself, so I'm definitely sure that having something, even if it's not real, it's better than having nothing. I agree with that, but I don't think it's the same as having a real ecosystem functioning in your rooftop.

[00:16:44] David Cummins: I do want to ask a question just before we go. I've seen some examples overseas, but I've never in Australia, but you might have. The plant walls or green walls inside carparks, where they can help absorb carbon monoxide and actually have a quite controlled and quite oxygen rich environment. 

[00:17:04] Have you seen any such examples in New Zealand or Australia where the whole carpark basically is a green wall and what type of plants are they, and what can we do to try and incorporate that and why doesn't it happen more often?

[00:17:15] Bruno Marques: No, unfortunately I haven't seen many examples in Australia and New Zealand. I'm aware of some overseas. They tend to be plants that have a very high tolerance to pollutants and especially to carbon mon monoxide and nitrogens and all the kind of things. 

[00:17:30] They also are plants that don't really need heavy maintenance because, that's also the issue at times in some of the projects is when, we don't really count that there's classes associated with maintenance.

[00:17:41] It's a brilliant strategy, as you mentioned, if you can have something green that soaks in all the carbon monoxide, it's a great way to engage with green walls. 

[00:17:50] We need more of that. There are many examples of countries looking into more greenwall solutions, even as a way for carbon sequestration overall to address some of our targets globally and locally on carbon, carbon emissions. 

[00:18:05] In a climate such as Australia, it's a billing solution because, there is not the extreme situation of having frost in winter and snow. Even here in New Zealand will be a great solution.

[00:18:14] I'm aware of a project here in New Zealand where we are using a lot of green walls in university spaces as a way to purify air and indoor air and circulation of air overall across buildings especially here in Wellington.

[00:18:29] And it's something that's been more an experimental side of things, trying to understand which plants would tolerate such extreme environments. And because they are in a way, maybe they're more deprived from daylight or things like that. 

[00:18:41] There's a heap of stuff happening out there that I wish I would have time to know all about it. There is very cool things happening that are involving plants in nature and hopefully we'll see more of those coming. 

[00:18:53] David Cummins: Just before I go, knowing there's a lot of architects and designers and builders all very interested in this space, hence our series, what would you like people to start pushing for or, you know fighting for in the word of biophilic design?

[00:19:06] What's a take-home message that architects can use to help encourage people to understand the benefits of this more and to fight for it to be part of our future hospitals? 

[00:19:16] Bruno Marques: Well, primarily like that nature is not an afterthought, but should be something that should be embraced since the beginning in any project they conceive, and we just talked now here through this podcast.

[00:19:27] It's about that continuum of conceiving spaces from indoors to the building to the outdoors, and see that they're all interlinked together. And having nature at the forefront, it really may be an increase in the budget, or a higher investment upfront. But the long term benefits, it's crucial not only for those that choose those buildings, but for the entire community and for our cities.

[00:19:52] So they are part of a wider, green and blue infrastructure that come together and the benefits of it are huge. We don't need to go far back and if we all reflect on our experience of Covid and seeing how important it was for most people to actually be outdoors and breed the fresh air, and be in nature and hug a tree... all those things were crucial.

[00:20:14] We can't just have cities that are concrete jungles, it's not sustainable and it deeply affects our health and wellbeing. We should be putting nature in landscape as the first priority in anything we do and council should be forcing any new developments to have a certain percentage of greenery involved in their project.

[00:20:37] Either through green walls, green roofs, outdoor pocket parks. Whatever's going to be, but that should be part of any development. 

[00:20:45] David Cummins: Yeah, it's a really good point. I personally can't wait to argue, to get more greenery in my hospitals because it's such an important idea.

[00:20:51] And I just want to thank you so much for all the hard work you put into this sector of architecture and into the world of design. 

[00:20:58] It's people like you who are literally pushing the way forward to get more green spaces to give all those benefits to staff and to patients as well.

[00:21:05] Congratulations again on being the president of the International Federation Landscape Architects, which has been around since the 1960's, which I didn't know about, but I'm almost positive you'll be there for a little bit longer and you and your organisation and the Federation as well, because think it's an absolute benefit that we all have to embrace for future health.

[00:21:20] So thank you very much. 

[00:21:21] Bruno Marques: Oh, no, thank you and David for inviting me. It's a pleasure. It was great to chat with you. 

[00:21:24] David Cummins: You have been listening to the Australian Health Design Council podcast series, Health Design on the Go. 

[00:21:30] If you would like to learn more about the AHDC, please connect with us on our website or LinkedIn.

[00:21:35] Thank you for listening.