Straight Outta The Lair with Flex Lewis
7x Mr. Olympia 212 Champion Flex Lewis presents Straight Outta The Lair, the podcast that aims to bring you vital information for your life's ambitions, providing valuable insight from interviews of the many many different faces that walk through our doors at The Dragon's Lair Las Vegas and a few from the man himself.
Straight Outta The Lair with Flex Lewis
Bucking Bulls and Cowboy Grit | Matt Scharping | Straight Outta The Lair Podcast Ep. 79
Buckle up as Matt Scharping, a jack of all trades—rancher, racecar driver, and bucking bull guru—joins me on a wild ride through the heart of the western lifestyle. Wrangling insights on the cowboy ethos, we examine how high-quality cowboy hats aren't just about fashion—they're the hallmark of the authentic westerner. Matt's narrative, rooted in a small farm upbringing and molded by his father's relentless work ethic, paints a vivid picture of passion-driven success and the unyielding pursuit of excellence, whether it be in business, on the racetrack, or within the bucking bull arena.
Saddle up for a trot through the entrepreneurial spirit that fuels the bucking bull industry, where innovation interlaces with tradition, and media bridges the gap between rodeo athletes and fans. Matt and I round up the impact of the pandemic on this niche but burgeoning sector, highlighting the resilience required to steer through such unprecedented times. We also graze on the topic of bull nutrition, debunking myths about electric prods and exploring the meticulous care that goes into rearing these magnificent animals. As we peer over the fence into the arena, we celebrate the riders' bravery and the profound connection between man and beast that is often overlooked by the rodeo's razzle-dazzle.
As we wind down this episode, the conversation takes a gentler canter, revealing the tender side of these powerful beasts and the bonds they share with their handlers—bonds as deep as the stories of cowboy legends. Matt Scharping's journey not only underscores the significance of tradition and integrity in the cowboy lifestyle but also opens the gate for those seeking to gallop into this world. This isn't just a podcast—it's a gateway to understanding the soul of the western way of life and the men, women, and animals who embody its spirit.
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----- Content -----
00:00:00 - Intro
00:04:38 - From Tools to Bucking Bulls
00:08:50 - Cowboy Way of Life and Lessons
00:17:04 - Rodeo's Evolution and Growing Popularity
00:20:27 - Cowboy Life in Rodeo
00:33:48 - Bull Nutrition and Hot Shot Misconceptions
00:46:32 - Bucking Calves and Developing Champion Cowboys
00:55:49 - Toughness and Genetics in Bull Riding
01:06:00 - Bonding With Bulls
01:11:10 - Bull Riding and Cowboy Lifestyle
01:17:28 - Creating a Bull Riding Experience
01:27:50 - Opportunities in Western Way of Life
Mindset's way more important than skill. How bad do you want it? What are you willing to sacrifice to get it? Or are you going to look for the easy way out?
Speaker 2:Straight out the left. Alright, guys, I promise you some incredible guests, and this guy, needless to say, is going to be a banger of an episode. You've become a personal friend. From being a business owner, entrepreneur, to driving racecars, to own in some of the best bucking balls in the world. He's the epitome of if you find something you love, go all in. Matt Sharpe, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:Thanks, man, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:As you guys can see, I've got this incredible hat on. It suits you.
Speaker 1:Not everybody can handle the cowboy.
Speaker 2:You do a good job with it. This is, you know. This is thanks to you, my friend.
Speaker 1:I was. That was kind of a funny story with that, because you said you needed a hat for an occasion. I said you can't just go buy any hat, you have to go and get an American hat at the best hat store and it worked out really well.
Speaker 2:We got you lined out and it looks good, man, it does look good. So before we get into you know how you got into the world you're in. It's come really from very unique circumstances and many different stories we can talk about on this podcast. But since we start talking about the hat, why is it that the hat is so important, especially in your world and identifying you know? Again, you said to me right there you can't go to an event with just any old hat. You've got to be wearing a certain hat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's tough because for us that are in this world, in the western way of life, you can always pick out the imposters when they show up. Like your hats, like that's something that we take very serious as having a nice hat, you know, and they're not cheap, they're a nice quality hat and it makes a huge difference. People think that we're just a bunch of hillbillies sometimes, but like, there are certain things that we do that we want super high quality and the hat is so important. You know, they always say that the theory is, the hat's important, but the hat doesn't make the man either, you know. But you have to have. I didn't want you getting something that wasn't going to work for you.
Speaker 1:And that process of how we chose the hat and chose the shape, oh, the shape Danny shaped your hat got it Like I'm picky about it, Like I always go to the best hat store in Fort Worth I live in Minnesota, but like my hats come from the best hat store in Fort Worth because Danny will shape, he shapes my hats.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and these guys done an incredible job. We went in there obviously you put me with Danny. We chose the hat, he shaped it. Such an incredible process, which I'll show some overlay of some of the process in post, but it was not only for myself but for my wife too, exactly, and we walked away feeling, oh yes.
Speaker 1:And you guys, like I showed a picture to Wade earlier today. I said you know you had. I had the picture of you and Allie with your hats on and they actually they looks really good. Like not everybody. Even if you get a good hat, sometimes it's still like, yeah, he's just not meant to wear one, it'll be okay.
Speaker 2:But you look good, I did look good, I still do look good, still look good, keep it up. But you know your journey into the Buckingham Boat World I didn't start off as as more, stuart you know, have generational connections that are passed down. Yes, you grew up on a ranch, but you then left that ranch. Let's get back to your childhood and talk about your story, and I'd love to get into some of the details to describe why you are the man you are today.
Speaker 1:You know, I grew up on a small farm in Arlington, minnesota. You know it's. It's a small town, 2200 people. My dad was. He we farmed a little bit, had some beef cattle, and then he worked off the farm, you know, to make ends meet. So we didn't grow up with a lot, but we had what we needed, right and what I. Watching my dad, I watched how he worked and that was the biggest thing to me and really why I am the way I am is because my dad, you know, and that's that's something you know somebody asked who's the greatest cowboy, you know, and it was my dad.
Speaker 1:He never wore a cowboy hat, though you know, but just who he's, what he stood for and and how he went about. Things was, uh, yeah, it's pretty cool. But growing up on that little farm, I never realized that I love the animals like I do, and so I was selling tools, driving race cars like I was. That's all I was, you know, my focus was. So in 2005, um, I was a number one tool dealer in the country for as a mobile tool franchise, and then they sent me to Michigan to build a district, and that was uh, with the intention of eventually going to their corporate headquarters. And once I got over there and realized what it like more of an office setting, it's like, yeah, that's, it's not you, that's not me, I'm not going to. This isn't going to work. So, but I did.
Speaker 1:I committed for two years, but while I was there, I was like man, I miss the animal interaction. I want to get something for my. I'll get a horse for my daughter, we'll board a horse out here so we can have that animal interaction. And so as I'm looking online for a horse for my daughter, for Lacey, I run across a bucking bull website. I'm like man, where did they come from? Like, those are cool. Like I knew I wanted to raise, have cattle at some point in time when I got to move home, but I didn't want to. I wanted something different. You know, I wanted something that I could compete with. What I loved about racing Like racing was a like a drug to me. Like I love racing, I purposely don't go to the racetrack anymore because I know how I'm wired. But I raise fuel as well. Yeah, it's, it's just, it's hard. But so now I go, we go into the bucking bull world where I can compete with an animal, but I still get to raise my kids, you know, back home and teach them the values that living on a farm or ranch give them.
Speaker 1:And so I was looking for that horse, found a bucking bull website and then just became infatuated with it. It's like where do they come from? How you know what's the theory, and so I just started studying crazy amounts. And then I found a website. The breeder's connection had an online auction going and I'm like I had done enough research to understand some of the bloodlines and there was a heifer on there and I thought, well, I'll just throw a bid in on it. You know I'm not going to get it. Yeah, I got it.
Speaker 1:So I'm living in a development in Michigan and now I own a rodeo heifer and I'm thinking, oh man, I've really messed up. Like what am I going to do with this? Where do I go? Call the guy who is who I bought it from, and he's like, send the check to Denver, but the heifers in Nebraska. I said why is that? And he's like, why don't I board him? I said, well, funny story, I'm in a little bit of a situation I'm going to need to board her as well. So that Ravenscroft let me board there and I acquired like five heifers and a bull.
Speaker 1:And then eventually I got, when I got to move back to Minnesota, I brought all that stuff with me and started, you know, with literally with five heifers and one bull calf. Never, I'd never calved a cow. Like I had no idea what I was doing, but, and everybody thought I was nuts. But it's just that. I mean you can learn anything you want in this world, but are you humble enough to understand that you don't know everything and that you're going to work hard for it? And that's that's really what motivates me, is like I love learning new things and and figuring out what you know, why does it work or how can we make it better?
Speaker 2:So what kind of things did you run into on the first year of you, you know, moving back and then just jumping straight into that world?
Speaker 1:You know, the the biggest thing is having the facilities to handle the animals was one of the huge things. Like every piece of fence that we have, or every like everything that we have there. I live on the farm that I grew up on now and so but everything had to be redone in order to handle these animals so that every piece of fence, all the steel fence to the pasture fence, to everything we've had to redo. That was a big, big undertaking, right. There's a lot of work to be done and then just like having those cows out, you know it's like not knowing exactly what was going on, but like anything, if you surround yourself with people that are mentors, that are good at whatever it is you're trying to do and I was very fortunate to have, you know, scott Akamoso and some of these guys that really made a difference for me and I knew I could call and they would steer me the right direction, and so it was.
Speaker 1:It was interesting, though I mean the first time you can't have a cow and so we had two bullcaves that first year and one of those bullcaves ended up being high test who was four time PBR finals bull, two times the NFL, or he was a CBR World Champion, so he was always kind of a docile, easygoing calf. His mom was anything but that, and so I remember, like the first year when he was real little, he was very curious and he came walking up to me and I'm paying attention to the calf, not paying attention to his mother, and, needless to say, she taught me the lesson to pay attention to the mother instead of the calf. So, but those are things you learn, right? I mean never being around it, you have to, you have to get your feet wet and sometimes lessons hurt a little bit, but that's, that's all part of it.
Speaker 2:How long did it take you to try to get you know? Did you feel like, ok, I've got my feet now into this lifestyle because it's such a different pace of life that you will live in for the last 10, 15 years?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I bought my first half. That first half or was in 2007. And then I was still selling tool. Like when we moved back to Minnesota, I was still selling tools. Like I went back to selling tools and I didn't. It wasn't until 20. 7. No, 2014. 2014 is when I sold my tool company and just went straight doing doing bucking balls. Yeah, so it was. It was a journey for sure as far as you know. Learning all that stuff in a short period of time yeah, Do you use your?
Speaker 2:and obviously I know a lot of these. I'm asking the questions based on, on the answers that that are going to set the show. But there's, there's a certain entrepreneurial mindset that you brought into this that maybe some of you know your competitors because of their generational mindset in the old school Right and you coming in kind of different, bringing in a different mindset to that. Is that what we separated you from the rest? From the get go, because, just like you said, you had some incredible bull straight out to the get?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's the big thing, like in our industry, people who do what we do typically, especially in the rodeo, like the PRCA and being a stock contractor there it's it's families that have had years and years of building that, and I came in not knowing anything but from my tool business to the racing side of things to you know all those different parts and pieces that I've done. It was putting my own twist on what it was, not disrespecting how anyone else is doing it, but I always feel like it's cafeteria style you take what you need and you leave the rest. So there's little bits and pieces you can learn from everybody, either what to do or what not to do. So just paid attention to that and then put our own twist on it. As far as the marketing side of it because racing is a different deal to you know you're the sponsors and all the different things that you need to do and understanding what that means to your business, but also keeping in mind what does it mean to that sponsors business? So there's there's a difference there that we bring, yeah, just a different look.
Speaker 1:It's like I love rodeo because it's so old school, right. I love what it stands for. You know it's the man versus beast part of it, but it's all about God and country. That's who we are. We don't apologize for that, and that remains the same. What we can do, though, is always improve, and so, like it's constantly like what we've talked about, you know, over the last few days like there's so many things that we can do to create such cool experiences for people, because what we do is entertainment. Like when COVID hit, it was a harsh reality of like oh, I'm in the entertainment industry and I have no way to make money, but yet I got to feed all these animals. So we have to remember that it's. It's about the fans, it's about the people that are involved with you in your business, and we do the work, but we have to create the entertainment for everybody else. That's how we I mean, that's how our deal works.
Speaker 2:And one of the things you've done is you've put a lot of incredible great media out there. On your Instagram, you're always putting out new videos and how they shot, which I just come to find out, is your son come. Yeah, he does an incredible job of the social media, just how he captures the true cinematic version of what you do on the day to day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's like that's a big thing. I did a lot of tours for the PBR and and different rodeos that we go to with the behind the scenes like reality is. The Yellowstone TV show has made me and Cowboy Cool again in America, right, which we knew it all along, but it's.
Speaker 1:Other people are trying to figure it out, but it's, it's changed things right and so it's created this amount of people that have no idea what we do, but they're so enamored by what it is.
Speaker 1:But how do they get to see the behind the scenes? They can walk, go to a rodeo or go to a bull riding and see it that, but the animal side of it and how the animals cared for, and the day to day part of it, is what we're trying to give the fans, because once they, once people connect with something, they become a very loyal fan, right, and so it's we want to give them the stuff they're looking for, and that's the behind the scenes and the day to day stuff, and and it's yeah, it's just different we want to create, we want to give the fans what they're asking for, right, and we also want to dispel a lot of the BS that goes along with our sport and show them what the truth is. We're not sugarcoating it, we don't have anything to hide, so I want people to be able to see that side of things it's a true cowboy way of life.
Speaker 2:Absolutely every time we speak it's you know. You give me new lessons in life. I think that one of the great thing about our friendship is two different, two different worlds that have collided with a common interest in a friendship there, and there's not one week that goes by where you probably not sent me about 10 different videos of what you're doing on the, on the ranch with the bulls, and I don't want to. You know, there's a lot of, I think, built in misconceptions that the media has may have spun or whatever else, and and these are questions I had with you to and maybe a lot of questions that the fans are that are listening and watching this for the first time I've got an interest in. I've got an interest. Maybe it's through Yellowstone, maybe that is the entry point, right, but let me ask you this question before I ask you the second how true and close is Yellowstone to, to the cowboy real life? Because that was a question asked by the funds going into this podcast.
Speaker 1:So Taylor Sheridan has done a fantastic job. Taylor's cowboy, so Taylor's done a great job of putting this show together. Now, granted, it's dramatized for TV, right, but if you look at the issues that Yellowstone, what, what they fight on Yellowstone, what their plot is, it is truly some of the things that we fight on a daily basis, especially with, you know, our ranch in Montana. It's like those the water issues or the land issues or all these different types of things. That's those are real issues. Now we don't exactly have the train station like it's it is, it's there, it's. It's a different way of life, but they've he's done a great job of portraying that and he's done more for our way of life and putting our way of life out in the public side to a crazy degree. Like so American hats. I was talking to Keith Monday, the CEO of it, and I said you know how our hat sales and stuff and and he's like Matt, he's like it's just insane. I said really. I said what? What do you attribute to?
Speaker 1:he said Yellowstone effect wow he's like I'll be honest and I might be selling some hats to people that shouldn't be wearing one, he said, but this is really good no, you're good so but it's.
Speaker 1:But those are the types of things that, yeah, it is amazing to watch and how it's influenced our way of life. But now it's how much? How deep can we go? Like? How to get these fans to see what we do and understand what we do? We have a platform to do it, but you gotta get out your ass and do it right and make sure people understand what it is we're doing and then not not sugarcoating it. The problem with everything is is people always get defensive when people don't understand. That's an opportunity, like we. That's an opportunity for us to educate the fan and educate what what we're really doing. I tell people all the time once you experience rodeo bull riding our way of life, there's very, very few people are like yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't need to go see that again. Like if they do their, they misunderstand what it is first off, but most people are like man, where's this been?
Speaker 1:Yeah like, well, we've been here the whole damn time. Yeah, you know, it's just, it's getting out more in the public view. It's no different than, like pro rodeo. The cowboy channel has helped us a ton with like you can go on and watch rodeos every day of the week through the cowboy channel, which was never televised before. Now it's opening it up and I have fans all the time. It's like man, I love watching cowboy channel to see your you know, watch your stock bucket, the rodeos, and so it's opened things up to a whole different degree.
Speaker 1:The other thing is, if you look at the attendance at our rodeos, it's insane, like over the last five years, how it went from being good but now it's like the whole COVID deal is obviously a pain in everybody's tail, but it has really shown people and given people something else to look at and a lot of them came to rodeos and once they came to one they fell in love with it. Now it's like Thomas and Mack here for the NFR. Like every night it's sold out every night and it's I mean it is amazing the amount of people that come to Vegas to watch. You know, this is our Super Bowl rodeo, right, but even at the regular rodeos. The attendance been awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, I had my first experience a couple of months ago in the team's event here in the T-Mobile arena.
Speaker 2:Kind of spoiled you know, one person that we will speak about later on in the show, matt West. Absolutely, kind of, give me a really great red carpet event. Not only did I get to share it with my wife, but I got to share it with my daughter too, along with my videographer and two other friends. There we are, on the screen right there. That was us at the rodeo for the first time, sitting in, sitting from the stands and watching one incredible production, and that's got to be cool for you. You know, from getting into the sport and seeing how it's evolving and how how has the sport evolved over the last couple of years?
Speaker 1:Oh it's. It has evolved to a crazy degree, just like I said, because I think people have taken such an interest in it. But I think a lot of that comes back to the fact that people are sick of the bullshit that we have to deal with on a daily basis sometimes, and the wholesome, just the politics and the shit that goes on in our country. Right, you don't have to.
Speaker 2:PG we, we, we, we, we, we. We don't have to watch your swear words. This is my show.
Speaker 1:But it is people are. People are sick of it, like man I. The whole thing with rodeo is our job is to you pay a ticket price. We want you to be able to go to that event. Forget about any problems, any of the bullshit that you normally have to deal with, and enjoy what it is it's. We're going to stand up and sing the national anthem. We are going to kneel and pray Like that's who we are. So I think it's refreshing to the vast majority of people, because there's no. There's no politics in in what we do. Like we're. We don't play your political games, we don't give a shit. Like we're here to put on a show and entertain our fans.
Speaker 2:That's it, unapologetically.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, we, we don't care. I've told. I did an interview with a guy one time and I said he asked what's, what do you? Would you tell someone about rodeo that's never been to it? I said, well, rodeo is, you know, a man versus beast sport, like it's a throwback.
Speaker 1:But, more importantly, we're all about God and country. That's who we are. That's what we stand for. We won't compromise, we don't give a shit. If you don't like it, don't come. But if you, if you like those types of things, you will love rodeo. And that's that, to me, is what means so much. Because it's like we've we've lost our way in in America on certain things. Right, there's too much influence, and while we can't do this, we can't say this, we like not at a rodeo. That doesn't happen. The only thing is I will say is you better stand up and take your damn hat off? Or it's a different group of people, right? So, like, those things are serious and and we take it serious and we're going to, we're going to honor, you know, the military and the police officers and all that stuff. That's who we stand Like. We got their back, they got ours.
Speaker 2:That's how I knew America when I came here. It's crazy how much has changed, even for me coming as an immigrant to the United States, and it's sad to see this, this moving of a needle and and these, these viewpoints, and it's like we spoke about actually yesterday. There's, you know, do as I say, you know as I do, and also have in the. You know you've got two years. You can listen, one mouth right, yeah, and in that case, or many cases, it's this is what I stand for, but I'm not going to listen to anything else.
Speaker 2:And one of the things about your world that I've, that I've now, that I've got into it, is so many people have been so respectful, kind, morally correct. I just say, you know, I would say, oh, country boy coming from Tennessee, when I used to live them, them the morals and integrity that I, that I was around daily and it's, it's really how America's backbone was born Absolutely. And to lose that I truly feel like. You know, you guys are doing a phenomenal job of fighting against these new policies, these new laws, because the cowboy way of life is the cowboy way of life. Take it or leave it. But again, if somebody is, is there to ask the questions, you guys are the first to answer. You're not turning your back to any reporter. You want people to learn about it and how the lifestyle is lived, because it's one of the hardest lifestyles blue collar lifestyles that I've come across. Now that's what really gravitates me, to your world too.
Speaker 1:You know what? What I love about it is as much as it is like the work part of it. It's it's a lot of work, right? You work 365 days a year. There's no vacation, like it's Christmas day guess what? We still got a feed. And if you're in Minnesota, that means you're going to have to bet them and make sure that everybody's good, because it's going to be cold, right? So it's all those types of things. There's no day off. But in the same token, I don't feel like I've worked a day since I sold my tool truck, because this is a lifestyle. This isn't a job, this is a lifestyle. I'm just blessed to be able to make a living to take care of my family with it, and so it's.
Speaker 1:It is a different way of life, but I think that's what, and that's the only thing that draws people to it is because we don't. We stand up for what we believe in and it's the demasculinization of America that doesn't happen here. That's not who we are. Like be a decent human being, be a good man. Like teach your kids the right way to do things. You, I don't care what society thinks is the right way. You know in your heart what's the right way to do something, so teach your kids the right way. So it's, and be polite. I'll be the first to say that rodeo. You know people think about rodeo cowboys and might party a little bit hard and might do whatever. They're always respectful and they're going to be polite. You know, you meet, I met your wife. You take your, take your damn hat off and show respect and be a decent human being. But those are the things that man where did?
Speaker 1:where's it gone Outside of our like rodeo world, like there's a lot? That's not that way anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's sad yeah it's.
Speaker 1:I just I don't. I don't like that part of it. I love that in rodeo, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to your point when we went to the rodeo. Obviously my wife has got some sort of history in riding.
Speaker 1:And that's.
Speaker 2:We'll speak a little bit out later on the show, but with with her anybody who calls her mom or miss Ali, oh my gosh, she's like oh, it's just, it's just. I don't know if it's the miss Ali or that, but there were so many, so many guys that were. You know more than anything else, it's the more rules, basic, more rules.
Speaker 1:It's not that hard.
Speaker 2:It's not that hard.
Speaker 1:But people like to overcomplicate the hell out of it. Right, like it, just. It costs nothing. To be nice to people, to be polite, just be polite, just please or thank you Hold the door open. You know how many times you walk into a store and you see, you know I don't care how old the person is, hold the door for them. Like this is not that hard. But it's just people reciprocate that, if you know. But you, somebody's got to start it right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so our way of life is you. You start it, yeah, and show people that you're respectful, and it doesn't matter if they always agree with you. Know, our way of life doesn't mean you can't be decent to them, but we're just not going to change.
Speaker 2:You're talking about the physicality. Obviously you've got the season, especially in Minnesota Right now. You've got that. That cold snap is in. You told me right, yeah, it's coming.
Speaker 1:We're actually pretty lucky right now, but it's yeah, it'll come, we'll be at, you know, 25, 30 below, you know, when we get shortly after we get home from the NFR, and so it's. It does make things more difficult. It's easier to raise bulls in another part of the country. But I'm pretty old school. My dad's, one of my dad's dreams was that my brother, mike, and I would take care of our farms, because we had two different spots, and my dad's been gone for 22 years. I still respect what he asked us to do, or what he wanted us to do. So it would be easier for me to do this somewhere else, but that's not the right thing to do.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about that. So Minnesota is not known as a place to have bucking bulls.
Speaker 2:I don't know, but what you do, unlike other people who were in your, in your world, you actually ship a lot of your bulls across country to warmer climates or less hasher climates, and that, to me again, with many other things, blows my mind. That you live in one place, yet you, you stay there and you ship a lot of your bulls to other places to get a better lifestyle. And the tremendous amount of respect I've had for you in, in what you do, and the above and beyond that you do for each and every one of these animals, has blow my mind, cause I just thought it was just you get a bull like everybody else. It is going to be absolutely crazy, untamable, and then you ride that bull and and, but there's so much more that goes into it and there's so much more that you do the separate you from the best, as to why you're one of the best in the world.
Speaker 1:You know it's the. What you have to always maintain is that it's about the animal. It's not about me. I'm just blessed to be the one that gets to take care of them. But at the end of the day, at the beginning of the day, at the end of the day, it's about them. And how am I giving them the absolute best life I can? Because the better life that they have, the better they repay me, basically, so it's all about them. So, yeah, like airtime and crazy mother trucker, and like our breed bulls, they live in Minnesota in the summertime and they live in Texas in the wintertime which is like going to Florida on vacation.
Speaker 1:They live better than I do. Like I wish I could go somewhere warm, but I got to take care of everybody else. But it's it is. And then we'll send, like I said, scott Akamazzo, ace Spades Ranch, like he was so instrumental in who I am and how I you know our bull business and what I've learned from Scott is irreplaceable. But I still, like he built a separate facility that's all super tiny for, like, baby calves. So, like we just got done weaning calves Well, all the bull calves just arrived in Texas yesterday and then they'll hang out there till April and then they'll start working them and teaching them.
Speaker 1:You know the ways that, what we need to teach them, and basically you probably got that on your list of questions, but it's, it's really teaching them that nothing hurts them, right? That's, that is the main goal, because animals learn off pain. Yeah, if it hurts, they're not doing it, and so it's. It's all about teaching them that there's nothing that hurts them. But so, yeah, we send them calves down there and our breed bulls down there. The rest of them stay up in Minnesota. But when people go, I don't know how you can do that in Minnesota. It's like the whole key is windbreaks and bedding. So the problem with that or the extra work that comes with that. So we have to acquire all this corn stock bales for bedding in the winter time and then in spring we got to haul all that out.
Speaker 1:So, there's an enormous amount of work that goes into all that. The other part of it is like our bulls may not be in premiere shape during the cold winter months, because either you have a really fit bull that's dead because he froze up because you didn't feed him like he's supposed to, or you have one that's a little heavier that can handle the weather. So it's, those are the things you have to pay attention. So you, you got to sacrifice maybe a little bit of performance in the winter time because you got to make sure that they're comfortable and they're not in a bad way.
Speaker 2:And there's such a strategy to this that true athletes, oh, you treat them as such.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, that's the coolest thing. People ask, like, why do they buck? Well, they buck because that's what they're bred to do. It's no different than a great canine officer, a great hunting dog or you know anything like that. That animal is bred to do a job, right, the animal gets excited to go do his job. When he's not doing his job, he's just a pretty much a normal dog. It's the same way with a bucking bull. People think these animals are mean. There's not very many that are. There may be some, but animals are just like humans. Some are easier to get along with than others. Right, so it's. It's the same deal, like each one has their own personality. That's one of the things I love about it. But those are all the things that go into making them who they are, right. And then that, as far as bucking, I can make one not buck. I can't make one buck. There's nothing I can do to make him buck, but I sure as hell can do something wrong and make him not buck.
Speaker 2:See, that sees. That's one of the misconceptions that they think all these bulls are crazy and they're all going to buck. Yeah, that's not the case.
Speaker 1:No, most of. There's a lot of them that don't you know, and and so it's to try and figure that part of it out. And then the flank strap. Okay, I'll address that, because everybody thinks that we're tying up their nuts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's another thing.
Speaker 1:It's like Go ahead and try you first. You stick your hand in there and try and do that.
Speaker 2:I was not know.
Speaker 1:I did like you get your arm broke, but and then if you would do that, they're not gonna move Right. So and we have pictures on our on our social media where you can see like airtime there was a great photo of airtime when he was bucking at AT&T Stadium and they caught it, just a perfect picture and you can see right where the flank is. And the flank is just a Soft cotton rope I should have brought one with, honestly, but just a soft cotton rope and it's like us putting our belt on. Each person likes their belt at a different tension, right Same thing. So I go on, I'm on the back shoots when we're bucking a bull and I tie that the flank strap.
Speaker 2:Is that what we're talking about, right?
Speaker 1:now, those are bull ropes.
Speaker 2:Oh, tice is going to town with this.
Speaker 1:But it's you know it, that's our job is to figure out what they like, where they want the knot, what the tension is like, all that stuff people go well can to make that much difference. They can feel a fly on their back.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:So where you put that rope and the amount of tension is they're? They're gonna notice a difference, but all that is it's. I always explain to people's like putting your hand in your armpit, when your arms down, you can feel your hand. When you raise your arm, you can't feel your hand. Same difference.
Speaker 2:What are the misconceptions that you want to?
Speaker 1:oh, I mean, hot shotting is a big thing. People think we're juicing them with. You know electricity is. They're leaving to make them do that.
Speaker 2:They could run at some sort of something.
Speaker 1:Yeah just a hot shot, just a cattle prod. The problem with that whole theory is, if you would do that, you could never get them to go back into that, into the bucking shoot, because it's a bad experience.
Speaker 2:It was about you see an earlier yeah having that. You know that fear of not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you always everything that, especially with a young bull, it has to be good experiences, mm-hmm, nothing that hurts them, because as soon as something goes wrong, it's a memory for them and they'll choose not to do it anymore. And then you, there's nothing you can do about it, like it's over for that one. So you have to understand that. All these different things, like the whole hot shot deal, it's like yes, we have hot shots. It's no different than your kids, right? Not so you should hot shot your kids, by the way. But the yeah, yeah, yeah, make a note the. But it's it like if you discipline your kids when they're young, it's a lot easier when they get older. Yeah, right, same difference, yeah.
Speaker 2:I part is a hot shot for me right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly okay, but it is. It's like so you any, when that animal gets older, as long as they see you carrying it, you?
Speaker 2:don't even have to.
Speaker 1:You don't use it Like it's. It's there to teach them the right way to do things, mainly so they don't hurt themselves, because, again, you can't allow them to feel pain from something that you're doing.
Speaker 2:As far as that goes, and another misconception that I actually brought up to in, you know, in our early days of talking, was I Heard that these guys, these bulls, would get in all kind of jacked up and all kinds of jungle juice and, yeah, concoctions, and that's another rumor that floats around, because, but you, you can have answered that straight away. It's like, listen, flax, these bulls are athletes and you think of a oversized bull is not going to buck and jump if it's Jacked up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you, you can't get him. Like, if they get too big, they they lose their athleticism, right? So it's, it's all about Super lean muscle mass. And don't get me wrong, they got to have Muscle on them but they can't be big and heavy muscled because then they're just not athletic anymore. So like there's misconceptions about that, and I'm not saying it's never been done, I'm just saying that the people that are doing it aren't real smart, because it, if you nutritionally give that animal what he needs, there is absolutely zero need for that. Yeah, so give him what he needs nutritionally and that that's a whole another aspect of what we do. Like it's no different than what your your way of life, right? How important was nutrition to do what you did seven.
Speaker 1:It's the same thing for us. It's all about nutrition. So, like when I got into the bull business in Minnesota, I went to a like a feed store, try and get feed for these bucking bowls, which I had no idea what the hell I was doing. So I said you know, I need feed, for I'm raising bucking bowls, you know all proud. And they said, well, we got this great beef feeder, we got this great dairy feed. And I said, well, I don't plan on eating these things and I sure as hell ain't trying to milk one of them. So I need, I need to.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to create an athlete. So we actually went and, with doc over bow, our vet, have created our own concentrate pellet which we've taken all the goodies like all the vitamins, minerals, everything that helps create a superior athlete and that is hard to get into a bucking bowl. We've created a pellet that we put in our feet so they get all of their vitamins and minerals and everything they need to be strong, lean, high energy, gut health. To I mean tendon strength, muscle development, bone strength, like all this stuff is all in the feed and you went on a deep dive on that.
Speaker 1:Oh boy.
Speaker 2:Nutritionally. You wouldn't make sure that if you were creating this and putting your name on that feed, yeah, that you were gonna make sure that this went above and beyond.
Speaker 1:Well, and it was funny because when doc and I started going over it and he's like all right, matt, what's what's important to you? Is it the cost of the product or the quality of the product, I said I don't give a shit what it costs, I want to have the absolute best for my animal. And it's no different than, like, you go to a store and this is gonna sound terrible, but you go to a store and buy your restaurant, get a steak, right, you can get. They may both be steaks, but they're two drastically different qualities. Of course, the vitamins and minerals and how they enter the body of a bull is the same way. So, and I'm sure it isn't a human to like different quality of supplements, right?
Speaker 2:Talking way. Protein is why it's lit way. Concentrate is different speeds, as exact. Exactly as you said. But also there's junk stuff.
Speaker 1:Exactly, they'll put the label on saying it's good for you and it's not exactly what you found out in your world, absolutely like, if you do a lot of testing. We we did do a deep dive where, like I, got a lot of supplements and tested a lot of stuff and there's Misconceptions about different like and I'm not saying it doesn't completely not work, but some different horse type supplements to use on bulls. The problem is a horse, a simple stomach animal, and a bull is a ruminant, totally different like. When you're feeding a bull, you're feeding the, actually the rumin in their body, because they're that will create all the nutrients that that animal needs To reach your goals. So it's a whole different deal.
Speaker 1:And if stuff isn't rumen protected, like certain amino acids and different things, like it has to, the product has to be rumen protected so you know you can get through the rumen and get to the part of their gut that'll actually absorb, right? So there's all these different types Of things that the rumen will destroy or whatever. So we've created something that's just it's all about bucking bulls. It's like it makes no sense to feed something else. But if you're feeding a bucking bull, like if you want them big, you want them strong, you want them healthy, that's what's all about. I mean that there's nothing and people say, why can't afford to feed like that? Well then, you have too many of them, like if they're worthwhile having, they're worthwhile feeding correctly, or you're wasting your money twice.
Speaker 2:Is that a common thing, that people have too much livestock?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I mean not that they don't take care of them, I'm just saying that they you have too many and you're trying to keep something that Isn't good enough to keep, so get rid of them, move on, like. But the ones that are good enough, make sure that they're fed properly. Another misconception Like a lot of people will go and start feeding their calves like we just got done weaning calves right. They'll go and feed them just a general feed because if they think of it as like kids or you can feed them almost anything, they're gonna be fine right to a degree, same difference. The problem is when you don't give them the stuff for their bone structure and tendon strength when they're young and they're developing.
Speaker 2:You're gonna compromise it later on is that something you discovered, or is that something that's kind of coming down from Generational?
Speaker 1:it's something that doc and I had talked about. Like it because we were discussing, like, how do we feed? When do we give them this, the high-power bull feed? And he's like you can get by cheaper if you feed something else. But then you're gonna compromise this and I'm like I'm not willing to compromise. So as soon as we got done, or soon as those calves got weaned, they got on bull feed the next day. Wow. So the different quantity obviously, but yeah, they're, it's on a, they're getting everything they needs to build that bone structure and that tendon strength. Because I never want something to happen. And go man, if I would have not been a tight ass and spent some money and took care of these calves when they were young, maybe I didn't have an injury. You know that would happen. Now. At least, if something does happen, I know that I did everything I was supposed to do and then it's just the way it is and you mentioned injuries.
Speaker 2:Just like Athletes in different sports, you know these bulls get injured, whether it's through backing, whether it's through training, and I was one day scrolling through your feet after we became friends and feed on no pun intended to the food for you. Feed your Instagram feed. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and there was this high frequency. I want to butcher this, but it would look like a stim unit at the time and I mess issue and I said what are?
Speaker 1:you doing what?
Speaker 2:the heck is this? And it looked like one of these Tens units that a lot of athletes put on either prior to warming up. You know, if you look at the NFL, these guys have got them all over there. They're warming up their muscles before game, after the game, and that's what you do with your balls.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. Pulse is a company that sells pulse electromagnetic frequency therapy.
Speaker 2:Can you pull this up Tyre? So sorry, just type in pulse PEMF. I'm yeah, pulse PEMF and it bulls.
Speaker 1:And so what that? What it allows us to do? It was designed a lot. I mean it's for humans, but then they also designed it for the equine industry, for horses. Well, what I found like using that is it makes such a difference, like a bull can't tell you where he saw right, and a Bull is a prey animal in the animal kingdom, so he's gonna hide it as much as he can because he doesn't want to give up, you know, give up being hurt. So you can, with the pulse unit I can go over them and if I set it real light and just go over their body wherever I find that muscle Contracting more.
Speaker 1:I can tell that he saw there and we need to To give him therapy on that area.
Speaker 2:You got anything tires you can show. Hmm, maybe type in what was the, what was it called again.
Speaker 1:It's pulse PEMF.
Speaker 2:Maybe pulse, maybe, maybe if you get Roderick out of the, can you help. Can you get on phenom genetics Instagram page? Yeah, they'll show, show, tyus. Yeah, if you can get on a phenom genetics Instagram page, you just show in the saddles. I think I'll write something. Right now it's on the screen. I don't know if that's that's ups. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But yeah, so it's. It's awesome to be able to help heal these animals and take soreness out and so like when, if a Bull is either right hand or left hand delivery and that means which way they're leaving the bucking shoot.
Speaker 2:Oh wait, wait, wait. So literally they have a save it favorite side that I go out of. I didn't know this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it a lot of. It Comes to what lead there in how they step, but each animal will prefer a certain side. You'll have some that'll buck out at either side, doesn't? They don't care. And sometimes you have a bull that you need to switch sides on every time to keep him fresh. But Typically they're always out of a right hand or left hand delivery and so if it's a right hand delivery bull, his right hand hip will always have a little more soreness because it's where they push and twist off of Left hand. Same thing. So it allows us to go and relieve that soreness or, like any type of injury, any type of contusion, anything like that, you can pull that out of them.
Speaker 2:Go you. Any luck to us All.
Speaker 1:Right, well, we'll circle back and I will do it in post.
Speaker 2:But that is something that blew my mind because when I was going through the feed, I I seen this and I and I hit you up straight away. I was like yeah, I was blown away because that not a something I had no clue about. Again, not that I didn't think it Existed, just because the knowledge wasn't put in front of me. Good, back to what we said the beginning of this episode, where, if you don't ask the questions, you don't know.
Speaker 2:No, and these, the new age things that you know have brought into you know the bucking ball world where you're doing the extra things that Maybe other thing, others are not thinking about, including the nutritional element of things, because I'm sure this there's some old school try and test it Cowboys they will not change their ways for nothing, stubborn as a meal as they probably say, and that's right, but the, the new age thinker, is Certainly one that is now going to try and stay up on on the game and, as you know, of come in with Social media element of things, the, the nutritional element of things, the recovery element of things, and plus many more, the other Conversations we've had, that drew me in closer and closer into your world. Well, well, you know it hasn't been said yet, but it's one of the reasons why you and I are going to be doing some business together in the future, but we'll talk about that.
Speaker 1:So you guys, I think you're like well, what is the kind of thing?
Speaker 2:that you're going to do. I'm thinking like well, what is?
Speaker 1:the connection between. There's more to this, there's more to this.
Speaker 2:So we spoke about the recovery element of things. Now there's there's a common question. That that was asked before coming into this podcast is like how do you know a good bucking calf from another? You know one that maybe? Maybe dominant right and there's again the terminology I'm still learning. Yeah, excuse me, and you'll be great.
Speaker 1:You'll be in phenomenal.
Speaker 2:I'm so patient with me in learning this. Yeah, that's good, but all these things as I'm talking to the viewers, all questions I asked you before because you know not to answer this question or ask, but I didn't really know that there's like a Like a potluck in a sense. Right, you have a calf that might come from Phenomenal genetics, first of all, that that's not going to be, you know, altered, but that calf might not mature till later on. And then some calves that are really good in in the first year of Bucking training. They might mature later on in life, that are kind of like a late bloomer. Yeah, so how would you identify the diamonds in the rough?
Speaker 1:So in in our world, a bucking bull can start competing as a yearling and we buck him with a dummy on their back. Which? The dummy is just a steel box with the cinch on the bottom, and inside of that there's a latch system and a battery and then I have a remote. So when I want that to fall off of the animal I just hit a button and everything falls off. Okay, so that's part of training, but it's also how we compete and to go win money. So as yearlings, some bulls will like bucking with a dummy, some bulls won't. The what I really look for in that, as a weanling, like what we're gonna see here in the next two months with the calves that we Just sent to Texas or what is there. The most important thing is effort, effort and heart right. I don't like weak-hearted people and I don't like weak-hearted animals Like. I want them to show that they. They have that. You know what it takes. I don't care if you have it figured out, but you damn sure got a try, and so that's the most important thing. Then you can kind of judge off of some. To some degree it's genetics like certain genetic pools are gonna be better with a live guy than they are with a dummy. And then certain ones are the opposite and some are just, you know, really good with a dummy and then once you put a live guy on there, just a bull like they're, just they don't have it. So that's what I look at is knowing my genetic pool first off, knowing what to expect from that set, but then watching them develop you know, going and bucking them is weanlings and yearlings and seeing how they develop and there's some like the ones that really like it. We keep up and, you know, keep them a little bit of a different diet than the ones are like man. I want that bull just to grow up and we're gonna try them with a rider. They're gonna get kicked out. They're still gonna get handled to keep their mind about them, but we're not gonna push them because we know that it's gonna be there a lot live rider type bull, so we don't need to continue spending time with them here. So it's it just varies on that, but that's a cool thing you know.
Speaker 1:With with what we're doing, we started a little platinum bull series where it's a Ferturity series up in Minnesota when there's six events and everybody's. It's taken off huge. People love it because it's bringing back the fun and and fairness to to the game Bucking with, with the dummy on them. And so we're, you know, once a month we'll all get together, you pay an entry fee, you buck your calves or judge by three people and then whoever has the best calf wins. So it's, it's you kind of put your money where your mouth is, like I'm gonna throw down you know, 500 bucks and basically say my, my bull is better than yours. So it's a, it's a competition and somebody's gonna walk out of there with nice chunk of cash, and so it's. It makes it a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:But it's also Teaching those calves to get on a truck in a trailer, go somewhere else and do what they're supposed to do.
Speaker 1:It's all this learning process so that when they do get older, like our bulls would at three years old. So we own Wade Sanky and I own Sanky Pro rodeo as well, and so at three years old we're getting on a truck and we're going rodeo and, and so we know kind of who they are before that, and then get on the rodeo truck and that's what we're doing, the rodeo truck, and that really it allows us to develop animals like. There's lots of different ways to do the bull business, but the most important thing and the hardest thing is to develop that animal with a rider, which is hard to do. If you can't, you don't have a spot to go with them, right, because it's not like. It's sometimes hard to get practice out at your house. And bringing bull riders to your house and and getting on, not to mention you can also create bad experiences in if the rider Doesn't have any try to him and he's getting bucked off in one jump, you're teaching your bull bad habits and that can be Very detrimental.
Speaker 2:So the quality of the rider is Really important during the training element.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and so a lot of both. You can do bull competitions with three and four-year-olds With live guys. To the problem with it is, if you don't have the right guy getting on, you may set your bull back.
Speaker 2:Is it a shortage of good riders?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean there's there's a lot of good riders, but that whole world has changed too. You know there's still some of them, guys that are dirty tough and like Unbelievable, they'll get on, you can have a practice pen. They're gonna come get on eight head. You know like dirty tough guys. And then there's some guys that you know like, oh man, I, you know, I Spray my pinky yesterday. You know, I mean it's not very common, but like just some guys are a little weak, more weak-hearted, right, and but there's there are a ton of really good guys. I mean you look at, like we're just at the NFR last night, stetson Wright, who's like the face of pro rodeo, is won seven gold buckles and he's 24, like you're right.
Speaker 2:What's that from Utah?
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, and he's won in saddle, bronc and bull riding. Like that's not an easy task 24. Yeah, I mean, and to be in two different disciplines, like that is not very. I mean, that doesn't happen very often. But anyway, he's got, you know, an injury going on right now and he's getting on two head a day For the next 10 days.
Speaker 1:And these are the best, the best, yeah, and I mean it's you want to talk about being tough, like that's how you, that's when you know someone's tough, like when you can Mentally block out some of that stuff to go and do your job. But there's a lot of guys like that.
Speaker 2:And then there's some guys that start what sets a champion cowboy from the rest in terms of Skill on mindset?
Speaker 1:mindset way more important than skill in my opinion, but I'd believe that to be true in life. Right? How bad do you want it? What are you willing to sacrifice to get it? Are you willing to take a hook in because You're gonna try and ride this thing, or you're gonna look for the easy way out and just try to save yourself? I mean, don't get me wrong, there's got to be some self-preservation. But Mm-hmm, like, take JB Mooney. I mean the goal.
Speaker 1:He's the man as far as like bull riding goes, the winningest bull rider ever. What I love JB's a great friend, jay. What I love about JB is just his toughness. Like I've never JB's maybe a hundred and forty five pounds ringing wet. I mean he's like a stick figure.
Speaker 2:Sorry, jb, but he's a good looking one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll soften up the, but no, I mean he's just, he's a small guy but I don't know, I don't know I've ever met anyone tough and he came up and did a bull riding school at my house one time and Talking to the kids, he's like you know what separates me from everybody else? He's there's people that are way more talented than me. He's like I just don't quit, I'm not stopping, I'm not gonna let go until my head hits the dirt, and that mentality to me is what's key. Everybody's got a different riding style. There's no perfect style, like everybody can be, that can be altered, right. But the grittiness, the toughness, the no quit, like that's, there's not a lot of guys that are wired that way, to that degree. And so you take, you know, the JB's and the Stetson's and sage Kim's II and like there's guys at Joao and and there's a bunch of guys that are just crazy talented but also they're tough guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah you mentioned, JB and I was watching a couple of videos a couple weeks ago about he just is recovering from an injury where he's broke his Broke his back right it broke his neck.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. Actually he was at one of our rodeos on one of our bulls when he did it. Really, yeah, bad deal. Like JB is such a good friend and like I love the guy he was. Obviously he's getting some age on him in that deal in bull riding in the bull riding world but he's still every time he showed up he's he's gonna ride the same way and strap them and and he will take a beating sometimes.
Speaker 1:Well, he had a bull of ours called Artica Sasson out in Lewiston, idaho, and Just got flipped off the back and landed on the back of his neck and busted his neck had a bunch of plates, bunch screws. But the crazy thing this gives you an idea of toughness right Breaks his neck in the arena, crawls Into the bucking shoot that they had open where the bull just came out of to kind of they'll close a bucking shoot. So he's got a safe spot. And a buddy of his, shane Proctor, came over and and Said you good, and he's like no, I just broke my neck. You knew, he knew. And it's like well, we gotta get we'll go get the paramedics.
Speaker 1:He said, no, open the damn gate, I'll walk out. And with a broken neck he walks over to the paramedics and they're like JB, what do you know what's hurt, what do we can do? And and he's like I just broke my neck. But that, that gives you the idea of how these guys are mentally. That is on the yeah, yeah, that that is it.
Speaker 2:He fell right on top on his head. I guess the idea is getting up and yeah, that's what the broken neck.
Speaker 1:Now he's going, he's going to the water. Tough that's will be. Yeah, so that's that's what I love, like I respect that more than anything anymore. Yeah, because there's not a lot of guys are tough guy like just in life in general. I'm not just talking about bull riding, but like I respect a dirty tough. So be any more than anything else, because there's so little of it anymore.
Speaker 2:What's? What's your thoughts on the the new generation, when helmets over hats, because obviously JB's old school right, he wears a hat bucking Do you have any preference on that? Or, as you still go back to safety's ever then?
Speaker 1:I go back to. That is a personal decision. On the bull riders spot, I can get that theory both ways. Obviously, wearing a helmet is much safer, but I also understand why there's something to be said for a guy you know hat down and going like boy like it. Kai Hamilton won the round last night at the NFR. He's from Australia, great bull rider, good kid, and he was riding with a helmet and he switched to going back with just riding with a hat Because he just feels freer and feels like he's more in tune with the animal right. Personal preference yeah, personal preference. Now you, there's risk, but I don't know if anyone realized, but there's a hell of a lot of risk in bull riding in general.
Speaker 1:Whether you got a helmet on or not, but like it is, that's his preference and Stetson Stetson wears a helmet and that's what he prefers. That's, that's up to them, guys with that clip.
Speaker 2:I seen something on YouTube where JB was talking about he's kind of know also for smoking cigarettes in places. He shouldn't be smoking cigarettes, right, until security turn out. Try to tell him to put that put out of the way and he politely, see, I mean you cannot not love the guy he saw, respectful even when he's trying not to be. Yeah, and he was telling him also I will not put this out the security like okay, yeah, gonna leave you be. Yeah, but he was in a hospital and and it was like I need a cigarette.
Speaker 2:Yeah he literally got up out of bed and he was looking for a place. I think he walked himself out of the hospital to have that cigarette, just goes to show. Yeah, you said it's the toughness the toughness of it like because they're getting a cigarette.
Speaker 1:It's, it's now. I'm not, you know, advocating that every bull rider should be smoking cigarettes, but it's like he is Like just that. He's that throwback right cowboy hat doesn't Never did train like, train like, work out and really try to take care of his body. His theory was he was working on the ranch during the week and getting on practice bulls and the one thing that he would do is stand on like a medicine ball just for balance and core strength. So he'd stand on a medicine ball and watch a movie or stand on a medicine ball and eat a supper, you know so like he would do that type of stuff. But it wasn't a you know huge exercise plan Like that works for him but the new age guys are in the gym.
Speaker 2:They got trainers in some cases. That they're putting real work of routines along with nutrition. Is that probably one of the new age things that you've seen in? Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Absolutely that's. That's probably the biggest transition. Is these guys Really becoming a different type of athlete? Yeah, instead of like the JBS are it's. You can't replicate that right. That's that's who he is. That's not gonna work for 95% of the population of bull riders, but that worked for him. But the new guys are, yeah, a lot of exercise, a lot of workouts. There's specialized trainers just for rodeo now, which is pretty cool, but yeah, they're in nutrition and and it's so different it a lot of its plight. You know how flexible they are and all these different things is crucial for what they're, yeah, trying to do and Go back to know your livestock and the genetics that you've been able to create.
Speaker 2:And and as we've spoken about, you know eyes, as I've come from the dog. Well, we've had different conversations about how that was my intrigue. It's it's cross Pollinating two different genetic lines to create the ultimate. Yeah, and that's what you've been able to do from the gecko by going into that deep dive, the research, and you've been able to Produce some incredible bulls, including airtime.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, you know it. It was so fun for me is I love the genetics part of it and knowing, like, how it's. It's mainly about the cow herd, right, yes, about the female. It's all about the females in this deal and with, in breeding, pretty much dogs too. Yeah, so the the breeding. On this, it's like we don't run a ton of head of females because we live in Minnesota. It's not like we feed every day. There's no big grassland, not to mention it's froze up for six months out of the year, but we keep a smaller cow herd and and how. The reason we do that is we don't need I don't need to go and have a hundred, two hundred head of cows Because our percentages are so high as far as what we produce. I don't like we're not working on 40, 50% of the bulls that we have, buck, I we're working on 90 to 95% is where we want to be.
Speaker 2:Is that a rat thing? Yeah, that is rare.
Speaker 1:But it comes from like if, if a I have a bull calf and I don't like the bull calf, that bull calf will leave, that cow will leave and every one of her daughters will leave. You just clean out that family leaves.
Speaker 2:No genetic gone, dna left.
Speaker 1:I don't want anything to do with it. So if you continue to do that, now all of a sudden you get these certain cow families which are your producers, and now all of a sudden they all, everything you got, goes back to them, and so the the odds of us having something that doesn't buck anymore it's not that high. Like, don't get me wrong, you're going to have it sometimes, but it's not. We're working on off a higher percentage. But then, like the complimenting, so we talked about the cow herd, how important that is. What's the breed bull deal? So the breed bulls is not every great bucking bull will make a great breed bull.
Speaker 1:Repeat that for the people who are listening Yep, not every great bucking bull will make a great breed bull, Because even if they're an absolute standout athlete doesn't mean he's going to pass it on like he's supposed to. So we were very blessed with airtime, where he was a superstar in the arena. And then his calves now are. I will say this none of them are like him Because I just don't believe like he was a life once, a lifetime type bull. But his calves are really, really good and I think you know that's the type of thing. So then we went to compliment our cows with him and then now with crazy mother trucker like he crosses really well on the airtime daughter.
Speaker 1:So it's figuring out which different things, how the mix works, and then sometimes you'll buy a really good breed bull and he just won't compliment what your herd is, you know. And so you're looking at OK, what do I want to add to that female line? Is it size? Is it, you know, heat, Like how hot are they? Is it the amount of rare they get? Is the amount of kick they give you? Is it the turn back, Like you're always trying to add something and that's what the you compliment your cows with the breed bull.
Speaker 2:We're talking about airtime. You're is look at this, Woo man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he, he was definitely a freak.
Speaker 2:So what separated airtime from the rest of the park?
Speaker 1:This is a great video to describe that, so.
Speaker 2:Tommy came up to show right there he's.
Speaker 1:He stood on one foot like he was a freak of nature and people think, well, he must have been really small, like it doesn't look like he's real big there, but that bull's seventeen hundred and fifty pounds doing that.
Speaker 2:Look at that for all the listeners. Unfortunately, on Spotify we are looking at a bull. That's probably what you think, four or five feet in the air.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's, he was always, yeah, probably right in that range, but this is where they'll stop it here. Like that's what's a freak? Like he should. Like they're not supposed to be able to do that, like his leg that is planted. Yeah there's no reason that shouldn't hurt that leg.
Speaker 2:It's literally. Is that the cowboy coming off the airtime? Yeah, he was in a rough shape, so again let's let's talk about airtime, because he truly kind of separated you from the park.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was, he was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you've spoken. We've spoken personally and every time we talk about airtime it's. You can see that this is like such a part of your family and such a again a bull that's left such an impact on you and many others, including some of the bull riders that have read him. Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's made an impact on some bull riders. I give him that. Yeah, he's a, he's a once in a lifetime animal. Like I'll never touch another one. That's like him. But it's. He's getting old, that's a little bit tough to stomach. But yeah, he's. His calves are really good. He's never been a pet but he's always been. He'd tolerate me. You know where he's not like you could once in a while reach up and scratch his head or you know whatever. But hey, then some days he'd shake his head at you. Like not today, kid, you know, it's just, that's just him. Like he was, he's pretty cool, but he is a once in a lifetime bull. And what he's done for our family, yeah, pretty well.
Speaker 2:He's a good bull, we, we. Every time we bring him up in conversation, we always kind of end up at this part and this point when it's kind of run the rewards to describe what he's done for you and your family and what he means and how his offspring and no performing yeah, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:We got. One of his sons is here at the NFL this this week, so he's just a four year old. We call him Bugatti. Yeah, yeah, he's cool.
Speaker 1:And he's. It's funny because you look at him and he looks like his dad, except he's jet black. But he's built like him and and you know his head is what's up. His head is what's crazy in the bull world is like you can come. A lot of times you can tell what, when a calf is born, who their dad was based on. The shape of their head Sounds kind of crazy, but like he's got the same horn twist and and everything about him is it's. He looks a lot like his dad, so he's really cool, and the other like the year before, so he's a nine series, so he's born in 2019.
Speaker 1:The 2018 calf crop we had a bull called Time for Magic. That he was outstanding. He did have an injury this past year. He was at the NFR last year, but he had an injury earlier this year, and so we've been healing them, getting him healed up. But, like every year, our superstar is always seems to be an airtime calf Every, every group. Now I think it's going to change, coming up, just as genetics change, right, but I think the compliment of Crazy Mother Trucker over the airtime calves are going to give us even something cooler, like the heifer that we're competed with this year. We named her Dragonel.
Speaker 2:Maybe I had some sort of help in that?
Speaker 1:But she was. She's a freak, and so is. Yearlings, heifers and bulls can compete against each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's another thing. I did not know, it's not just males.
Speaker 1:It's not just males, not as yearlings After that yearling year, that's it. It's just bulls. But as a yearlings, it's. It is either one.
Speaker 2:Can I just lay down that question why is it that there's never a bull, a heifer, I'm sorry in the bull rating I think structurally that they just wouldn't be able to handle it.
Speaker 1:The weight of it they just can't put on. The heavy muscle, you know, and muscle up like a bull can no different, you know, than our world, right, it's just a different avenue. And when these calves are yearlings they're all similar. None of them are heavy muscle right. They're just kind of spindly and athletic and whatnot, and that's, I think that's why it works so well there. And then you don't want to take away from their breeding possibilities. So as a two year old, then they're going to get turned out with a bull.
Speaker 2:Have you? Have you known of anybody that's pushed the female through?
Speaker 1:No, because there's nowhere really to go with them, Like I mean, it is a bull riding.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know. So there's, there's no way to really do that. No, I'm not saying there isn't somebody who maybe has something that they're using for a practice animal or something like that, but typically that's not common. But these calves, you know, when you're bucking them yearlings with with a dummy, it's. It's pretty entertaining to see how these heifers because heifers have so much try it's. It's amazing, like to the point of being reckless you know sometimes.
Speaker 1:So it's like OK, control this a little bit. And but yeah, they're freak athletes, like a crazy mother trucker daughter. Well, dragonel, she won our finals up at you know, in our Ferturity series, and then actually the ABBI World Champion was another crazy mother trucker, heifer. So, like, his calves are legit, wow.
Speaker 2:So it's it that makes it a lot of fun to I know we've mentioned a couple of boys that you have, but how do you build a bond with your balls and and how important is your trust in your relationship with them?
Speaker 1:Oh man, that trust is everything. So they have to trust me. But in order for them to trust me, I have to trust them and put yourself in a little bit of an interesting situation sometimes, right, but they have to understand like I'm not here to hurt you, there's nothing I'm going to do to hurt you. I'm here to bring you feed, take you where you need to go, like everything. My only folks is taking care of them. So it's building that trust. And then what's amazing is as these bulls learn that game, they'll a lot of times become docile, to where they're just literally a pet Like.
Speaker 1:There's a video on my Facebook and Instagram that of my daughter Lacey riding around on the back of high test. Yeah, he, he had just bucked off Calermi Marchi, you know world champion, like the week before. And then my daughter just climbs over the fence, sits on his back and bull walks her around in the pen and then walks over the fence to leave her off. Like there they become such family pets that it's people are like blown away. But that's so good for the fans to see, because it's that misconception of these are mean, wild. You're making a mad. If I was making that bull mad, do you think he'd allow me to put my daughter on the back of him? You know, talk about trust Like you're giving them everything. So it is. It's amazing. What I love about it, though, is how each one has their own personality. Like I said, airtime was never a pet Like you could get by with, scratch his head sometimes when he's eating, but that was it where. Take magic train, take high test bad beagle, like all those bulls, are assassin, all dog gentle, you know.
Speaker 1:And so our assassins, a bull, that JB, got heard on. Well, we retired him this year as well, and so he just ended up at JB's place yesterday, because we gave him Grayson Swallon and I own the bull, and we gave him to JB. It was basically a retirement gift. Jb asked me he's like hey, what are you going to do with that bull? So I retire him and he just gets kind of live out his life, you know, I mean, that's how it works at our house. He's like man, I'd really like to have that bull, wow. And he's like last bull I ever got on. So well, let's make that happen, let's, let's get him down to you, and so he's going to go into retirement.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty sure JB, son Jagger and and our assassin are going to be pretty tight because Jagger's a little cowboy and so that'll be fun, because it'll be cool for JB to have a bull like that, that that bull is not going to hurt him, they not hurt his son, so it's pretty cool like that type of stuff. But that's our again, that's kind of our way of life, right, where it's like man, that means something to him. I don't necessarily need him. Yeah, I could have sold him for some money, but it means more giving it to him. Like that's a pretty cool that that guy's the legend in bull riding, maybe the greatest will ever get to witness right, and so he wants the bull. I know that bull is going to get taken care of, he's going to be able to live out his life, as long as his body allows it, and die of old age and that's pretty cool deal.
Speaker 2:That's crazy, though. That's such a cowboy way of life where it's like, ok, that's the bull that hurt me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Possibly, you know, retired me and I get to see him every day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he wanted him, he wanted him.
Speaker 2:He was. He just didn't want him. He wanted to see him every single day and for whatever reminder that was, that lived the last years of his life, the bull on his land and they also, you know now, kind of pass on some sort of touch to his son.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:That's a great full. You know, I wouldn't say full circle, because obviously you're injured in the process but it's, it's. It's meaningful to you guys because like broken bones and, and you know, missing teeth. So part of the sport it's just the way it is.
Speaker 1:We become so immune to it, which is bad to a degree, but we see injuries all the time. Right, and you always, man, he'll be OK.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know he'll be OK sometimes, or not.
Speaker 2:What kind of injuries are the most common? And obviously we've spoken about, you know, the, the ones that kind of can take it out of the game.
Speaker 1:But man, you know you look at for these guys, like shoulder injuries.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:For obvious reasons, Knees, Knee. Oh yeah, Like I know JB we've talked about it before where you know he, both of his ACLs are junk in both.
Speaker 2:He's got knees.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he got hurt. He got stepped on in in Calgary a few years this is quite a few, not a long time ago, but a few years ago and stepped on his shoulder and the only thing that was holding his shoulder together was basically his hide, his skin, I mean. So it completely reconstructed a shoulder, elbows, you know all I mean. Concussions, or reality anymore, like legs, ribs, you know, yeah, there's, it's pretty kind of all of it's pretty common. There's no one that's more common than the other, but yeah, there's just a lot of them. But that's also kind of a cowboy deal too, right, yeah, you're putting yourself, knowing full and well what the risk is, but that's, you know it and you still go and do it for people that are listening to the show and watching it from home?
Speaker 2:No, and they know that they listen and they're like, wow, I'd love to be part of that. Lifestyle may have come from a completely different world. Aspiring cowboys are interested. What advice would you give them?
Speaker 1:for cowboy, if you want to be a bull rider is is go to a good school. There's actually, like Cody Custer does a really good school, lyle Sanky does a very good school like, go to a school and learn the right way to do things. Not just go into your buddy's place and and getting on and like that's a good way to get hurt. Go and learn the right way to do it and then get on bulls that fit your level. Like don't get on something that's absolutely gonna crazy, you know trash you because you're not gonna learn anything doing that.
Speaker 1:Go and get on bulls that fit where you're at in your bull riding career and then move on from there and continually test yourself though Don't just take the easy way out all the time. Continually push yourself. But I think it's important. But it's just even shoot procedure on how to get on and how to you know with your rope and how to get how to fall off Correctly, if you can, you know. So there's there's a lot of different things that you can be taught on that and I really think people should go and Invest in themselves right Now. What I mean? We continually should be doing that anyway. But if you're gonna take that dive, yeah, like go do it right or Go buy a beer and sit in the stands.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want to know what that from my standpoint over the last Year I will. I've learned so much and I want to, before we forget, shout out to Matt West.
Speaker 2:He's the reason we're here, the reason why Matt and myself connected, was through a conversation I had with Matt West, who is now Truly becoming such a face for bull riding. You know the MC for the PBR and he's involved with so many different things, truly kind of breaking the sport into different. You know audiences absolutely sees also a gym rat. He owns West fit, correct West fit Jim yeah and he's quite a frequent traveler.
Speaker 2:You had to the dragons and that's how we got to connect. Absolutely was. I was hearing about this guy who's coming in my front desk a very good kind of talking to everybody. They heard Matt story and they were like you need a meat, you need a meat, you need meat. So it took some time because Matt would come in. Sometimes, you know, crack ass of dawn.
Speaker 1:Flex is not in yet.
Speaker 2:I don't speak English until 10 anyway so. Me and Matt eventually met quite some time back a couple of months ago, and what I learned about Matt straight away was I you're gonna be a part of my life for a very, very long time.
Speaker 1:That's a good comment.
Speaker 2:I clicked with him straight away and we started talking about some of the things that I wanted to get into post retirement and I've always had this passion for bulls, always. You know, I grew up in honest you know, in a very suburbia area and Having my great-grandfather who had land, and hearing all the stories from my grandfather, I think one of the biggest things that he missed was the, the upbringing that he had. Yeah, my grandfather went into, you know, coal mining and steel and my grandfather, my great-grandfather, was a butcher, so he had the land and I he had all these stories and they were kind of very, they were myths, right, and I feel something installed itself inside me where I moved to Tennessee from California and my intentions when I was living there was getting several acres of land and At one point time I was actually closing on 14 acres and had my passport stolen once I was in Miami dating. My wife and Lisa say I didn't close on that because of the identification sort of things. So but everything happens for a reason.
Speaker 2:But you can see, really, back then I was Salt and getting into that and thankfully my wife shares a similar passion for me about getting land and we started looking and doing a deep dive Into things and I was like, oh, into this world. Ali came up through horses, yeah. So I asked Matt, how can I get into this and who can I speak to? And he said, let me, let me take this back. And he wasn't but a few days. He circle back. He's like you too, as, listen, he has a roller index of people. Let's be honest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. He knows everybody in in our world, basically yes.
Speaker 2:And he said you too are going to click and need this to say. I've said this to many people. You know you're one of my favorite new friends that I have in my life. We are from two different worlds.
Speaker 2:Yeah but we have, and we do speak a common language and we also share a lot of ideologies, similar ideologies, and you know, when we connected, it felt like we'd been friends for so much longer than we have, and and every Question I've ever asked you, ever asked you, you've come back with not only that answer but videos. And you know where, everywhere, whether you're on the land at the time, you will send your videos like hey, this is it, or randomly, I'll wake up to like Various different videos when he leave me alone.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Preferences like listen I might not reply back to you straight away because I might be on the road somewhere. But please keep on sending these things and, true to form, you've done that. So I want to take the time on the podcast to let you know I truly appreciate who you are, what you stand for and all the knowledge that you've bestowed on me and every question I've ever asked and answered. So I'm proud and honored to do. You know, a lot of things with you in the future which we can, we can talk about, but before that I just want to thank you.
Speaker 1:No, I appreciate that, man, and, like I told you when I flew out here the first time, like we had never even text each other Honestly, I need to be honest. Like Matt sent us a text like Matt meet flex, flex, meet Matt, you know, and and so it's. Yeah, it was cool to come out and meet you, but it was like I Wanted to meet you because I wanted, I want to do business, people with a similar mentality, right and so it. I knew that when I met you, like it's gonna work.
Speaker 2:We was. It has any house. We have ten minutes left to this episode, so before we get to that.
Speaker 1:Oh, I Did bring you something. Look at this. So I brought you a bottle of whiskey Penalty and whiskey. Look at this like if, if you're gonna be a cowboy, you'd like you got a drink, what the Cowboys drink to 80% proof.
Speaker 2:My friend.
Speaker 1:But it goes down so smooth you like, I'm pretty sure Ali's gonna like that too.
Speaker 2:You know I'll. He's turned into a right old-fashioned snob.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you. Thank you for this gift.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, whiskey is a big part of the cowboy lifestyle it is you know, I mean, like I said earlier, is like I know we there's, we maybe go out and have a little bit of fun. You know that's our way of life. We're also very respectful. But that has a lot to do with the nightlife in Las Vegas during the NFR.
Speaker 2:Well, I know that this will be very well received From my stomach to my brain when it goes down.
Speaker 1:So in advance, thank you, I'll send. I'll send you a video when I'm polishing it.
Speaker 2:Okay, you might not be understanding my English, but we have in mentioning that we have something that we are going to be putting together. I'd love for you to do the honors in in, in London, this plane, on this episode and explaining what we're gonna begin up to yeah.
Speaker 1:So I mean we started Dragonetics right and what. We're gonna be able to bring in a select group of people To come in and play a game, basically in in the Ferturity game. That'll be an, all you know, an inclusive deal for a bunch of money and it's gonna there's gonna be a whole process to it to get a spot and then to pick, to pick a calf at an auction and Then to be able to go and compete. But the big thing too is keeping like that group of people. That, the people you're gonna be around In that situation, yeah, is what it's gonna make this deal really special.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The calves are cool and it's gonna be fun in that side of it, but the people you meet is gonna be Pretty extraordinary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is definitely something that has been, you know, put together very wise and very well. I'm sorry there's bull riding right now is being also made popular by Dana White, who has had his first bull hit. The PBR, yep, and you know these are names that potentially could be somewhat there or not, but I won't kind of put the cat before the horse. No pun intended, but we do have a Structure to this and it's gonna be an elite group of you know very good people and I'll get them details out. But we wanted to just kind of put a little yeah and we'll out put a little out there.
Speaker 1:You know I haven't given an experience, right? Yes, like it's, it's Money's one thing, but the experiences we get are what we really get to take with us, right? And so if you like this way of life, if you're intrigued by our way of life and how we do things and who we are and what we stand for, like this is gonna be a pretty cool deal for you. What?
Speaker 2:a great entry point.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely. And then those animals can develop into whatever, like it's not like, it's just you own them for a year. Yeah, you you own them for his duration. Yeah and, and so Will he make, you know, a trip to the NFR. Will he make a trip to the PBR finals? Will he you know what will? What else will he do? There's so many different things, and everyone has a chance.
Speaker 2:There's not like this a calf that stands out. Every has an equal chance, regardless of who is the sire. You know the, the, the bull, that's, that's, you know, conceived on the heifer Generic pool in that already is there, exactly, it's the best of the best. Nobody knows it's such an equal playing field because nobody knows what they're gonna have and it's all gonna be based on the auction, and I think that's, I think that's the fun element of this is like the, the selective people out You're going to be around, we're gonna be around are all there to have fun, see something mature, mature into something that could be great, exactly. But the chance is there and I think that's why this makes this that much, you know, attractable absolutely to me and many others. And there's a lot of names that are already involved which I don't want to mention, respectively, yep, but there's some big names.
Speaker 1:It's gonna be fun. It's a lot of fun. This is gonna be this, is it? It's a it's like I said. The big thing is that it's just a small group, like there's not a bunch of spots.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how many spots you think we're gonna do?
Speaker 1:I would guess right around 15. Yeah, maybe 20 when it's gone. It's gone right when it's gone, it's gone.
Speaker 2:Let's know, and you're not just saying that when it's gone. It's gone because there's only going to be 15 cups, exactly like I can't just go and yeah grab more right.
Speaker 1:So once, once those calves are gone, it's over as far as that goes. So yeah, it's gonna be fun.
Speaker 2:We'll get them details. We're probably after this podcast is done.
Speaker 1:We'll probably have some sort of what link that we can yeah, and they reach out to us, you know, reach out to us and get involved by our mat.
Speaker 2:Is there anything you want to say before we close up this episode?
Speaker 1:man, I just I appreciate being able to do this, because there's a lot of people that probably follow you that really have no idea what this all is, and so the big thing for us in our Western way of life is to Expose other people to it, like to see what it is, because a lot of people don't feel like they have the you know that there's no way to figure it out, right.
Speaker 1:The one thing about all of us in this way of life, like, ask questions, we'll give you answers like they're not gonna be sugar coated, but you know it, we're gonna give you answers, and and we want to help people become fans and and become involved, right, so that's, this is a big opportunity for us. I think that's why, like, the stuff that you and I'll have going on is gonna be so important to the Western way of life as well, and to let allow people to experience something totally different is Is that's what's intriguing, and and to bring a bunch of great minds together. It's no different than me. I didn't know anything about it. Well, how do we know that someone else it's gonna get involved isn't gonna be very impactful in this way of life as well. Yeah, so that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Where can people find you, matt?
Speaker 1:Phenom genetics on Instagram, facebook Are the main two. So, yeah, go check us out and and, like I said, if you got questions there too, like, shoot me a message. I remember who I asked questions to getting started and I remember who responded. Mm-hmm and so I try to respond to everybody and, you know, give you an answer as far as whatever your question is.
Speaker 2:So there we go, guys. I think that that episode is one of many that we're gonna be working on getting some incredible gas on. No greater than this guy was now become a very good friend of mine and one of my new favorite friends. I hope you enjoyed this episode From myself, my chopping phenom genetics. We are hot, I, you.
