Straight Outta The Lair with Flex Lewis
7x Mr. Olympia 212 Champion Flex Lewis presents Straight Outta The Lair, the podcast that aims to bring you vital information for your life's ambitions, providing valuable insight from interviews of the many many different faces that walk through our doors at The Dragon's Lair Las Vegas and a few from the man himself.
Straight Outta The Lair with Flex Lewis
Shaping the Bodybuilding World | Sandy Williamson | Straight Outta The Lair Podcast Ep. 81
Embark on a transformative journey through the empowering world of women's bodybuilding with the iconic Sandy Williamson, a veteran judge and shaper of the NPC and IFBB. This episode offers a window into Sandy's profound wisdom, cultivated from decades immersed in judging international competitions and her pivotal role in the progression of female athletes in fitness. Our conversation traverses the landscape of the sport, from the inspirational ascent of Rachel McLish, the first Miss Olympia, to the recent introduction of the wellness division, celebrating the diversification and growth of female bodybuilding and fitness.
Join us as we unwrap the layers of a sport rich in discipline, camaraderie, and life-altering personal growth. Sandy shares riveting stories from the rowdy days of New Jersey bodybuilding contests to her global judging escapades, offering a glimpse into the gritty and passionate core of the community. We delve into the nuanced balance of athletic pursuits and personal life, sharing empowering tales of athletes who've mastered this equilibrium, thriving in both their sports and educational ambitions, while nurturing strong family connections.
Wrapping up, we peek into the future, teasing the potential of upcoming workshops and events that continue to fan the flames of inspiration and leadership within the industry. Our heartfelt exchange, brimming with professional insights and personal anecdotes, promises to enrich listeners with a deeper appreciation for the dynamic nature of bodybuilding and its far-reaching influence. Discover the history, triumphs, and evolving opportunities in a sport that shapes not only bodies but lives, in an episode replete with the passion and authenticity that defines the true spirit of bodybuilding.
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----- Content -----
00:00:00 - Intro
00:06:03 - NPC Workshops, Future of Bodybuilding
00:16:48 - Inspiring Women in Fitness
00:26:26 - Travel, History, and Social Media Impact
00:34:23 - The Impact and Influence of Bodybuilding
00:40:48 - Finding Balance in Bodybuilding and Life
00:51:57 - Bodybuilding
01:00:48 - Promoting Shows and Building Relationships
01:11:49 - Evolution and Opportunities in Bodybuilding
01:19:31 -
If the demand is there, it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen. Straight out the lead, straight out the lead.
Speaker 2:Straight out the lead, joined today by somebody that doesn't need an introduction, somebody who's changed the landscape of bodybuilding. Has been at the first ever Mr Olympia and has just now judged the last one, with many more left in the tank. Has judged me all around the world, the queen of bodybuilding, sandy Williamson. Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God, thank you so much, seriously, so much, for being here. Not sure I'm a queen of anything, but thank you very much. And I have judged you all over the world.
Speaker 2:You most certainly have, and we wanna I'm gonna talk about that later on the show but you are the queen. You definitely are. There's a title that-.
Speaker 1:The old one anyway.
Speaker 2:Listen. Whatever you wanna say, this is coming from me and many others. You certainly have been such an inspiration to many, including myself. Obviously, as you mentioned, you've judged me all around the world. It's very nerve wracking when you walk on stage and Sandy is sitting there in the middle scouring, looking at you up and down being judged.
Speaker 1:I scoured at you how I I see you smiled.
Speaker 2:But no, we've been all around the world. We definitely have. I've got some great memories, which we'll talk about later on in the podcast, but you are a obviously, like I said, a phenom for this sport. You've got a number of different shows. You're doing a lot of things with the NPC, which we spoke about off the show. I think we should kick off the show by talking about what we got going on right now and all these new and exciting events that you get into.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, that's the one thing with the NPC is that it keeps changing. It does Because every generation that comes afterwards is different. Things are important to it and I think that's one of the things that the reason Jim made it grow to where it is, because he listened to the people around him and listened to what the up and coming athletes wanted. I take this all the time the foundation of this organization is the athlete. If we don't have a body on stage, we don't have an organization, and sometimes what's important to us one generation is not what a priority is to another generation, even though all of it's gonna be about, obviously, fitness and health. But again, just, it shapes different. Do they wanna be really big and muscular? Do they wanna be more lean and smaller? It changes from one generation to the other and that's one of the things the NPC has done.
Speaker 2:And with doing these workshops, for example. This is where the up and coming athletes get to see these new changes and actually get to realize this. Oh wow, maybe and we mentioned this off air you have somebody that might be in bikini, might have the framework to put a little bit more muscle on them, become a good figure girl. So this is when the reason is why you've got these. You've got multiple different NPC shows all around world classes yes, around the world and you've got one coming to Vegas right.
Speaker 1:Yes, I have one here in Vegas, but right now the biggest one is our national women's seminar. It's gonna be. We went from started in Vegas two years ago, we went to Arizona last year. Now this year we're in Orlando Because, even though it's a free seminar for the athlete, you still have to pay travel to get there and to get most of them to get a hotel room. So I wanted to move it around a little bit so that the local women that maybe don't have the money and the time to take away from their career because they have a full time job or they're full time moms, they'll be able different athletes or different prospective athletes will be able to come because it's in their home area.
Speaker 2:So every year, at state to state, it moves around Like the Olympia used to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so the first year I was saying Mark and I were talking, I did it in here in Vegas, we had 300 on the wait list. Last year we did it in Arizona. We had 400 max with 300, 350 on the wait list. This year I have 500 registered for next weekend and we have 525 on the wait list.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's an all women's seminar, and part of the thing is because, obviously and not to belittle anybody, but again, most of your big names are your men, that's what most the general public know. And I always kept getting asked oh my God, when you retire, there's gonna be nobody to take your place. And I'm like, oh my God, we have so many amazing women in the sport, from promoters to judges to entrepreneurs. And that's really why I started it, cause I wanted people to see who these women were, that there's so many women behind the seeds that runs muscle contests, that runs wings of strength. That was really the reason that I wanted to start it, and when I talked to Jim, he was all for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you've definitely seen this evolution of now female athletes that are becoming promoters. Could you imagine, when you first started your first fitness journey, to be having a seminar of 500 women?
Speaker 1:First of all, I couldn't imagine me, because don't? I've loved, judging from the day I started. I was never, I just didn't. I wasn't Interested in being a promoter and stuff. I loved being behind that table. I love giving, talking to the athletes and meeting the athletes. I always have, but to know to ever think, even when I started two years ago to do the women's, the national ones were, I never know in my lifetime I would have, never.
Speaker 1:I would love and I and the like I was just talking to mark one of the things is that I'm seeing now I have a girl coming from Japan next week because she wants to see how it's run, because she wants to do one in Asia. Ron has, she from Canada, has contacted me he wants to do one in Canada and really with the technology today was zoom, yeah, we could really have one massive one, but it could be international. And I also said to Tyler, because lots of times like Tyler gives seminars and stuff, but then those people go back to their coaches or those coaches go back to their athletes. This way, with that type of an International, the people that are that run the organization, they're the ones giving out the information so that information will be heard by everybody, not through a second and third party.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what I mean, yep.
Speaker 2:I still want to talk about these NPC workshops because when I was coming through the ranks, there was nothing. I literally had to learn from competing and I learned a lot. Don't get me wrong the good and the bad but there was nothing like an NPC workshop, which I've been thankfully being part of, and obviously I had my flex Lewis classic show nine years in Tennessee. He grew to be becoming one of the biggest. Then I moved to Vegas. So I do what and would love to have my own show eventually in Las Vegas. That's the game plan. That's what I brought.
Speaker 2:I haven't brought you yet the pitch that you, by the way, sandy, but I have a massive passion being a promoter, being an athlete on stage, knowing what the concerns are, how things run, all the things that you only get to see and know about when you've competed yourself Absolutely. And now these workshops. I've just changed the landscape for so many people and just helped the first time competitor even to the season competitor, because everybody is learning and this sport, as you mentioned already, is Always evolving well at this time in in in Orlando.
Speaker 1:I'm the setup there, because one of the biggest things is, everybody said in the last two years they all didn't want the same information. You know what I mean, because it was all levels. I've actually have enough meeting rooms and stuff to have breakout sessions. And I will tell you, though, my two biggest breakout sessions are masters competitors and the IFBB pro competitors they wanted. So out of the 500, I probably have 200 plus that are IFBB pro athletes that are coming to the seminar. So these are seasoned competitors.
Speaker 1:They are now at that and they're still coming to learn from the Ashley. Because I've been really fortunate in the last three years. I've had over the panel. I've had over 30 Olympia titles on the panel, so even the IFBB pro athletes are coming because they want to be part of it. And also, too this is a one nice time is because when NPC athletes go to a pro show and I mean go to an NPC show and there's a pro component there I always think that's really cool because they get to see that they're idle, somebody they follow on social media, but the thing is they don't really can't interact because that pro is competing. Yes, they're trying to get that Olympia qualification, but at our workshop nobody's competing.
Speaker 1:No and that's what's really nice and you're starting to see now it's starting to blossom all over because you said we've run three or four seminars down here in Vegas and Vegas is really fortunate. You have so many amazing pros and I will tell you. But those pros, even when they're retired, they still come to help out at this and not to me. That is just. That's awesome. But there's so many resources now for that young athlete they're gonna get. They're gonna get pros and tips from Kyron or they're gonna get posing tips from from Nick Walker. I've done them now in in in Texas and you have a hundred LeBrona who again is a top Olympia athlete. He's there all day long and can you imagine if you were a brand new bodybuilder? Just young kids, 17, 18 years and you're gonna get you know help from if it's of somebody like a hundred LeBrona. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:It's, I get. I have a. I swear to God, I have athletes all the time that will come to me and when I say, is it worth your while to come, and they always say to me oh my god, I got to interact with Whatever pro it is. That's priceless, sandy.
Speaker 2:It's free, sandy.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's the other thing. All these seminars and workshops are free. So, as an athlete, you can. You're gonna get the information directly from the judges and the people that run the organization.
Speaker 2:And also the guys and the girls who are the poster child's for the IFBB you and just want to talk about Vegas and the future of anything that's going to be going on there, because this is going to be Errin after the Orlando. I want to make sure that I anybody who was listening as a Vegas resident what have we got coming up here in Vegas with the NPC in the future? Oh my.
Speaker 1:God. Well, obviously you have Muscle Contest, they have a show Legends in February, and then the end of March you have Samson Showdown, and he has, I'm sure I think he has Pro Wellness with it, and that's another thing too. You have a couple local Pro Wellness that your local people are gonna see on that stage, all trying to get to Olympia. And then you have the Jay Cutler. I was at the Jay Cutler last year. They put 369 athletes across stage at the Jay Cutler. It was humongous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Jay does a great job, not sure.
Speaker 1:I will tell you Jay could just teach people how to be Jay. He really is, even after all these years in his retire. I hadn't seen obviously I see him, but I had not been that close to him on a personal level but to see him how he interacts with athletes, with families. That's why that show gets the numbers it does, because he again, he's never forgot that he's an athlete and where he came from.
Speaker 2:Yeah, jay has been a massive inspiration to myself. I mentioned him many times in the podcast because he's always stood out to me for many reasons. He's so business savvy, but he's also not that loud, obnoxious, check me out athlete. He was a very serious, focused Mr Olympia, but then when he was on camera this, I don't know alter ego came alive right. But when he's retired and I can mention this to numerous different athletes who are very involved with the sport and even you ask them when's the last time Jay competed, and they'll say four, five years ago. That's the difference. Jay has kept himself so relevant and he's so approachable in so many different facets that you really are, you said, when you do the math, jay hasn't stepped on stage for a very long time and that's the difference between Jay and many other athletes.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Flex, you couldn't be more. I'm telling you, like I said last year, like I said I hadn't been around him on that type of personal level and to see him interacting with the people. Like I said, he came to check-ins on Friday night. He was there all day Saturday and lots of times trainers bring their teams and so I saw him in the hallway with I don't know, it must have been 30, 30, 40 people and I thought it was a team at first and then I realized no, because we had a family there that had three generations competing and he was taking pictures. Yes, he was taking pictures and I saw the older gentleman who I would have said the grandfather. He competed in the Masters. He worked up and shook Jay's hand afterwards and said to him this is why we always come to your show. He said, and I will always bring my family here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that, taking Jay's inspiration, one of the reasons why I put that emphasis into my show and be present from the check-ins to the pre-judge. And some of these promoters, they're gone. I don't know their names, but you know yourself they'll be there when they need to be, but they're not there when they need to be. And when it comes to somebody like Jay who leads from the front end and he does he is incredible promoter, incredible athlete and such an ambassador for the sport and obviously the battles between him and Ronnie when I was a kid watching them will always be embedded in my head too. Talking of battles, you have what a hell of a story, sandy. You have gone through tour to tour battles, with trying to change the rules in gyms to changing the rules in the MPC, to the IFBB. You are honestly a strong, well-d woman who has, as I said, changed the landscape. But I wanna know the story of Sandy and how you managed to find yourself in this crazy world. We all got a story, but I wanna hear it from you.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, yeah, I grew up heavy. I said I was 230 pounds by the time I was in eighth grade and, oh yeah, I was first in my class I was the book nerd and then when you get to high school you're a female and stuff. So I tried to lose a little bit of weight and I went to nursing school and I graduated at 72 pounds, first in my class, five foot six. Yes, they thought I had leukemia because anorexia wasn't. Again we're going back to. I graduated in 73 from nursing school.
Speaker 1:The anorexia wasn't in the bookshed. Most of your listeners probably won't know. Remember Karen Carpenter, but she was part of a music duo and she passed away because of potassium. She dropped her potassium to low and right after her is when anorexia neurosis started to come out and the doctors thought that's probably what I did, and obviously I did. And back then we didn't, at least in running Pennsylvania, we didn't have co-ed gyms. So I started going to a gym and I was doing I was so proud of myself, I was doing 100 reps on leg press with 10 pounds because I didn't want to put too much. They didn't want me to put too much weight in, because they didn't want me to get too muscular? Who?
Speaker 2:was they.
Speaker 1:The trainers at the gym and stuff, and my ex-husband is a powerlifter and stuff, and when I would come home and go I did 100 reps, I'm serious the leg press. He'd look at me and goes why would you do that? And I go because I can't do little weights, little reps, because then I'll get really big. And he goes that's the most stupidest thing I've ever, seriously ever heard of. And he worked at Steel Mill. He came home one day and he said, hey, bunch of the guys and obviously I'm a social person he said we're going down to Philly. He said there's a women's bodybuilding show. And I went and I want to go to a women's bodybuilding show. Why I don't want to see big, muscular women. He goes, yeah, but they're gonna have these seminars and stuff. And it was a dinner thing and not knowing at the time it was the first Miss Olympia ever by George Snyder in Philadelphia and we went down and saw Rachel McClish and that was the end of it.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:But I went to the Y on Monday and I, because I belonged to the Y I was actually, I used to swim there and stuff they wouldn't, the women couldn't use the weight room. Wow, that six months of me and another girl and I wished I would even remember who she was, but pushing them and they finally agreed to let us, let us in the weight room.
Speaker 2:So back in the 70s it was, there was not many women training weights anyway, right In general, oh no. But certainly not in trying to get into the, the general pop which is just man-bucked in.
Speaker 1:If you talk to somebody like Linda Murray, she was the only female in her gym training and stuff. Yeah, the landscape obviously has changed, but again, you have to remember in the 70s women grew up with, we had models that were 5'10", 5'11", 6' and they weighed 115 pounds. That was what. That's what the goal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was the yeah.
Speaker 1:Every magazine of female back then looked at and it was always if you could go all day long and not eat and just eat dinner, oh my God, then you had great willpower. Yeah, so when I start like I said, it's because I went to see that, first Miss Olympia and then obviously it was all magazines, because there was God, I would give my teeth for what we had. Now you know what I mean the resources and stuff. And so again, it was all by reading magazines when I slowly learned, because again, I'm a nurse for 44 years. You don't learn nutrition in nursing and anything in medicine, no offense, but you don't. And but this sport taught me about lifting weights and what building muscle can do for women and how to eat.
Speaker 2:I wanna ask you this question, the first, miss Olympia. It's such a profound effect on you. What was it that, richard McLeish, that inspired you to embark on your own fitness journey?
Speaker 1:You know, because she was such a beautiful woman and she wasn't a skeleton, you know what I mean. She had shape to her and yet she went again. They walked around and talked to the people that, the audience that was watching, and she was in like a size two gene but she just had so much curves and stuff. And when I learned that they're going to some of the seminars, then there that she got that, look by putting muscle on, that's what inspired me. Oh my God, I don't have to be what? Five foot seven, I don't have to be 110 pounds, I will. You can be a little bit heavier and have curves on it and because, again, most women want, they wanna look better from themselves and stuff, yeah, it was that journey of seeing those women with that little bit of muscle that they just it was like, oh my God, they look, I love their physique, loved them Was Rachel training a certain style back then.
Speaker 1:Hmm, you're gonna ask me a question. I don't know. I would think it's. I remember reading some of her books and stuff and I don't think it's any that gave me the basis for how I trained and I don't think it's all the basic stuff, nothing different than beginners do now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the only reason I'm asking is because obviously she was such a pioneer among many other women back then but obviously she's taken whatever knowledge she's gathered and then put it into her training to aspire somebody like yourself. That was the first time ever seeing anybody in the flesh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely no, that's what I'm saying, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And then obviously for you to go to that seminar and then come away from that sore motivated, inspired and obviously there was I'm guessing they were talking about nutrition and everything else in that seminar- yeah, but even some of the seminars, even at the seminars.
Speaker 1:It's funny because, for what I remember, obviously it's been 40 years ago. What I remember, though, is most of the seminars were Boyer Co, Frank Zane. It was the most of the seminars that were given by men. Yes they were the ones there, even though it was the first female Olympia contest. But again, it was the basic knowledge on how to eat and stuff and, like I said to me, if I eat that way and I'm gonna I have a chance to look like that. I was 25 years old, 26 years old.
Speaker 2:Even I know. Obviously it was a different generation. But going to a seminar and seeing these guys, the names you just mentioned, legend in the sport right, were they like anti-women in the gym or were they very encouraging?
Speaker 1:Oh, no, I think I wanna say most of them were encouraging, because I remember with Frank Zane, because his wife, yeah, his wife used to compete in stuff, but yeah, no, I just. And the women, they grew overnight. The numbers grew overnight. You have to remember, in the late 80s Miss Olympia was in Madison Square Garden. They used to sell. Oh, you didn't even know that no, the garden. They sold out Madison Square Garden.
Speaker 2:We gotta get back there, Sandy?
Speaker 1:Oh no, I'm serious, absolutely. The women sold out, it was only the women's Olympia, the men were separate, yeah and obviously you got inspired.
Speaker 2:You went back to the YM. We mentioned earlier that you worked hard on changing these rules. What kind of things were you battling back then to get these YMCA, the YMCA, to change the rules to like women?
Speaker 1:Because it was male dominated. And really they have to remember too, in the early 80s, when Jim had was only men and then the counterpart for women was the AFWB, the American Federation of Women's Bodybuilding, and when I started to compete I just went to any show in our area because you were lucky if there were three or four shows in Pennsylvania at the time. I didn't know nothing about organizations or anything like that, but I met someone through the AFWB and stuff and I used to go and compete, because actually Jim and I laugh about it because my first contest ever was in 81 in Pittsburgh at Soldiers and Sailors. Wow, yep, I sent Jim a picture a long time ago and it was me on the side and I had a trophy. And he texts me back and he goes. He said obviously the judges had it wrong. He said you have a small trophy. I said why do you think? I gave up competing and started judging. I wanna make sure they got it right. But yeah, my first contest was at Soldiers and Sailors.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so I competed for a couple years and then this candy census, who's now passed away at 33 years old, she got me into judging and because there was no women on the panel. She got me into judging and I realized once I started judging that I didn't have the structure to be on that stage and I'm competitive. So I started judging because it was like and everything was always they did a percentage for all the judges, how your accuracy was and stuff, and so it became competitive. If I judge with this group of people and again always at that time the only female and stuff could I do good and stuff.
Speaker 1:And then the NPC and the IFBB merged in I think it was 1984, and because I was already judging for the women's portion, I started judging for Jim and stuff. And then the first women's chairperson for was Candy Census but she ended up with metastatic breast cancer and Mae Malica, ricky Wayne's wife at the time, took over. But then they actually left the country in 86, he was a political activist and they went down somewhere into Caribbean. So Jim had called me and said would I be willing to help with the women? And I said yes, I can still remember, said I'm a full-time nurse, I work five days a week, but I'll help you for a couple months. You can just till you find somebody.
Speaker 2:How many years later you know 37 years later, yeah Incredible.
Speaker 1:But that's the one thing. Even back then, jim again, did they really need a women's chairperson? I don't really. I don't know that anybody else maybe would have. You know what I mean when Mae walked away and stuff. But Jim's always been I'm serious, he's always been super. So I've been all over the world with him. Him and I did all the world championships together and stuff and stuff. He's always been very supportive of me as a female judge.
Speaker 2:And just to not let this little fact go past, because you said I had done a couple of shows, you did 18 shows in four years, sandy. That is for even modern day amateurs that is wild. So you have a lot of experience before even sitting in the middle seat years later. But that transition, obviously, jim, you mentioned in Jim, obviously the boss seeing something special in you which we all see in you. Obviously there's such a. There's two sides of Sandy. There's the Sandy the judge and then there's the Sandy we mostly all know who will drop a tear at any point in time when you tell any type of story. That's emotional.
Speaker 1:But and also I already did that earlier on Adam's podcast. I'm trying not to, because I don't want my eyelashes to fall, okay we'll try not to.
Speaker 2:we'll try not to, but we were talking about the judging and obviously we talked about the 70s, 80s and a lot of the transitional changes that were happening. When you sat in that judges seat for the first time judging meals, did you have any pushback or any type of resistance from judging any guys back then?
Speaker 1:In all honesty, no, and I, like I said, and I was trying to think, as people asked me, like when did you first start head judging? And I really don't remember. I just always remember I judged obviously side by side with Jim and I just think, as those first couple years went on, I just think that he would give the mic to me for the women and then he would obviously take the mic because, again, this one and I always remind Steve Weinberger about this all the time because I really do have more longevity at that judges table than him because in the beginning his wife was still competing and I was judging her, so Steve wasn't a judge yet he wasn't a district chair, oh yeah, so I remind Steve about that all the time. But yeah, no, I really I wanna say, and I think, probably because Jim obviously respected me, nobody else was gonna give me a hard time. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So, no, I really the guys that I judged with I always felt comfortable with no, and, like I said, and it just even now, when one of the things I think people don't realize, because I already get noted all the time, because I'm willing to stay after and talk to the athlete. You know what I mean give back and they'll say, my God, nobody else. You have no idea where I learned that from. Where do you think I learned that from? It was Jim, because Jim always stayed after and talked to the guys. Oh yeah, debbie, his wife, we would sit there be waiting for him and Debbie was always like, did you get everybody to talk to the janitor? You didn't forget him because he did. He always talked to the athletes, he talked to every sponsor because, again, he was trying to grow a business and stuff, and so when he did that with the men, I just started to do it with the women. You know what I mean. And that's where it started from.
Speaker 2:The reason why I bring that up is because, sandy, that is truly grown breaking. Whether you realize that or not, what you were going through during that transitional period has changed. Like I said already mentioned this word already the landscape. You jumping on a judging panel and judging men and then obviously seeing a female judging female. That obviously from a female's perspective. Oh my gosh, there's a female judge. You're looking down, looking up at me as I look down. That for many female athletes must have been reassuring to see a female on that. And obviously now you look at the judging panel, sometimes there's more females and males in some states.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what? And that is one of the, that's one of, like you said, where the sport has grown, because, again, when I competed, there was not a female on my panel, on any of my panels, and so that when I was asked about starting to judge locally, it was like, yeah, I was the first.
Speaker 2:The OG.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was the OG. I wish John Kemper was alive because I used to do the, because obviously I'm outside Philly so I used to do a lot of the New Jersey shows and back then we used to have he used to have to guards because people would throw tomatoes at it the New Jersey, new York people.
Speaker 2:Oh, you gotta tell me some of these stories, Sandy. Come on, let's get some stories here in the podcast. So wait, people would throw tamir on stage like you're some punk to me.
Speaker 1:At the judges? No, oh yeah. Oh, if they didn't like it? Oh my God, absolutely. I remember when acrylic nails came in we had two girls in New Jersey. They seriously raked each other's faces, had blood running down because the one girl's boyfriend or husband beat the other. Oh yeah, absolutely no. I've had husbands in my poking me in the chest, telling me that their wife was the best on stage and it'd be like, of course she's the best on stage, she's the mother of your children. You know what I mean? I don't know. Or, as a person, I'm judging certain aspects. I'm not judging a person and stuff. But yeah, that we had some good different timeframe. We wouldn't get away with it now. Oh, people would be videotaping in our Everything's on camera right now.
Speaker 2:I'm sure there's a couple of things that Jim and Steve have been able to jump around. Thankfully there's no phones back then.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, no, it was definitely a different world.
Speaker 2:Stories that you'll take to the grave Sandy, I'm sure, oh yeah, oh yeah. Nothing for the straight out live podcast.
Speaker 1:No, those kind of things are gonna stay there yeah.
Speaker 2:You have travelled around the world and I feel as an athlete who has gone to so many countries I've had so many different countries, the best experiences traveling and also competing on the road. Do you have any great memories of you traveling on the road that you can talk about?
Speaker 1:Oh my god, absolutely. It's funny because when because Robin Cheng in the beginning he worked for ESPN years ago and stuff and then when he came back into our sport it was all with the Olympia, so I didn't really get. Obviously I knew who Robin was, but I didn't know him that well and stuff and a couple years ago he had said to me he said don't you have an interest in judging over internationally? And I'm like Robin, I've been to 32 countries. I've done every men and women's world championships, from 87 when I started, to probably 2002 or three. Then when some of the other girls took over and stuff and we weren't going overseas for the world championships as what that time is, much and stuff.
Speaker 1:I've gotten to see the world. I've seen places, like I said that, that I would love to go back. But I've also seen places that I would never want to go back but I'm fortunate enough from a historical standpoint, like I was in. I've gotten to go to Poland. I've gotten to see Auschwitz and Bukinov and it was one of the most saddest times of trips of my life just to see and know what that history was. But I'm so glad that I got to see that, because what you read in history books doesn't give you any respect perspective of what actually took place during those years.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I agree totally with you, because every time I'd go whether it was gaspores, in seminars or competing I always allowed myself to have one or two excursion days after just to check out the sites. Going to Korea, prague, italy, we'd always cut off after the show. Always eat some good food after and do some sightseeing and I'm a big history guy so I was like, just take me to the castles, take me to and you get somebody that's local, that knows all the history and yeah, it's just great and all this has come through bodybuilding.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I would never have gone to almost any of these places and, like you said, I normally. Last time, my husband, ted, traveled with me and he's a history major, so really.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, so I've lost out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely, he's a big history major. Oh, he loves, he loves history and stuff. But I and I want to say it was, and when we went to Alicante, spain, I could be wrong here, but not only did we run a marina, but then they had the Moorish castles on the hill and then you had the old town. So you had three different I don't say generations, but three different history, thousands of years apart, all within walking distance. And to be, like I said, to be part of that and to see how other cultures live also made me very appreciative that I was born here in our states I'm sorry, you know what I mean. I became, I know it really made me value, you know, because, again, I think, when you don't travel or you don't go outside, no matter what country you live in, sometimes it's like you take for granted a lot of the stuff in your country and then when you see what other other countries and what other cultures have to deal with, you go. No, you're very appreciative of what, of what, where you are.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and for the viewers who haven't guessed already, I'm not from the United States.
Speaker 1:Really, I never would have thought that.
Speaker 2:I know surprise Damn. Thank God it didn't affect my judging. But, with me coming to the United States and coming here at 19 years old.
Speaker 1:I keep forgetting. You were that young.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I came over here then done a flex magazine for a shoot with Chris Lund in Coliseum Gym, milo Satchim Gym how full circles are now Milo's change of mind gym and to just arrive and walk into Gold's Gym and just see the magazine just open up in front of me because obviously that's the only thing we had.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. There was no internet.
Speaker 2:It was that weight in of that next month's issue of flex magazine, you found out who won. Who was the next number coming play? Who is this guy? Where's he come from? Do you think, talking of which, the social media has ruined that allure that we used to have through the magazines, or is it just a new era and this is what?
Speaker 1:I think it's a new era, but there's a good and the bad there really is, because there's so much that is good about social media, obviously. Especially athletes now from different parts of the world can actually meet each other and actually have a relationship together from an athlete standpoint and stuff. It also again gives resources, if you're a new athlete, about how to train. But the other side of it too is because again everybody wants to be the best or to promote their business the best, and so you don't know really sometimes what to believe that you read and stuff. And I see this a lot of times and hopefully Jeremy's not going to get upset with me. But I remember one of the times right before Jeremy went to the Olympia one of the time, bwendia, and somebody showed me a picture of him and at that time the Olympia was always in September, so this was like August and stuff. And they just said don't you think he's too big for Men's Physique? And I looked and I went he comes to looking like that. Yeah, hell he is. But again it was a head game. He came to the Olympia, he won, he was three pounds heavier than he was the year before, but again he made himself. Look like that Now you have all the guys that you're going to go up against. Now they're going to chase you, they're going to try to get bigger, they're going to try to get in stuff, that part of thing.
Speaker 1:And I also think, sometimes just information that's given to, especially to young athletes. You know what I mean. I think sometimes I tell athletes you really have to take everything with a grain of soil, you've got to do your own research, because the information's out there, the good information's out there. You know what I mean. But you have to pick and choose and if it makes sense, yes. If something I always tell athletes, especially our female athletes if something does not feel right, it's not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's. Obviously the sport has tremendously grown, hence the numbers that we're having in so many different shows and the workshops. But, to your point too, there's good information and bad information then both accessible If you want to find something, because your belief is you're going to find it. But I always tell young athletes is you have one mouth and two years and you should listen more than you speak. A lot of these young guys that have been in the gym for maybe a month or two they're telling we've mentioned the Nick Walker's, the Me's, whatever else. This is how they're going to train or this is what they're going to do and I will be winning. My pro cad is hey, listen, let's just get on stage first. Let's get on stage first. I know your coaches gassing you up and your coaches only just put that in his Instagram bio. You came forth place last week. But I always tell people is find somebody that has your best interest or heart offstage as much as on stage.
Speaker 2:I was very blessed to meet Neil Hill at a very young age, 19 years old. He was the head judge in my first show when I done my first prep, for I done it from a flex magazine. That was the only information I had, and as did many people back then. But I'm very blessed that I met Neil and he always had this mentality of okay, when the show's done, forget about bodybuilding. Now you got to give back to your family that you put through hell, and that's the first word of advice was. I came off that stage like okay, can't wait to rebound training to my next show. And he was like we ain't doing nothing, you are going to take your girlfriend out, apologize, and you're going to spend time your family. Because what I realized was this is my journey Also, I thought it was, but it's really everybody's on that journey with you. So I also learned as the years go by that I am dieting for the show. Nobody else is dieting for the show.
Speaker 2:I had to teach my mum and dad, who are all rugby focused and that's all they knew about bodybuilding, to the point and full circle where I'd put a VHS tape in back in the day and my mum would be like, oh, jay Cutler's looking really full in this. Mr Olympia, who the hell are you man? But that's my point. Right, I put, I surrounded her with the right people and I took it to every show, and then now she spits the lingo. Obviously, she didn't spit the lingo for years. My dad too. But full circle You're sorry.
Speaker 1:They probably were a little bit prejudiced too. I'm sure their son was always the best on stage and I was the same and you and I've already talked to you're not going to get any, oh no.
Speaker 2:I'm not one to tube my own heart, but that was a great opportunity for a sound bite. I'm not going to lie to you.
Speaker 2:We've gone a couple of different places, but we were talking about the magazines and walking into these gyms and how the sport has changed. Now I do and I'll say this I'm very blessed I don't know if you agree with me on this that I'm so thankful that I was with Weeder as one of the last me and Phil Heath were the last ever two Weeder athletes to be signed in the contract whilst there was that transition of social media. But I also remember that social media was in this infancy stage and I lived through these magazines. Again, I'm very grateful that I do remember not knowing who was coming up until I picked that magazine up, or walking into Gold's Gym and thinking who the heck is this guy?
Speaker 2:Why is he not in the magazines? But these guys I just remember some of them were armatures. They were huge. I know if you're a good armature, you're a good pro. You're already on the spectrum and you're already on social media. You're already getting your Instagram followers and you're already, in many cases, already have a fan base. There's a young kid, sam Sulek right, he is blown up. He's doing his thing. He hasn't stepped on stage, but he has an incredible fan base and that has just come through social media. And then you've got guys like Chris Bumsted.
Speaker 1:That was my next.
Speaker 2:Who, in Maya, is the king of fitness?
Speaker 1:and the king of social media 18 million followers.
Speaker 2:If I'm Orno as we're speaking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm no. I think he's now 22,. Actually I think it was 18 and now it's 22.
Speaker 2:Go ahead and check.
Speaker 1:But no, I've actually been at a restaurant and somebody overheard us talking about bodybuilding and I had a waiter come up to me and go. You were talking about body, do you know Chris Bumsted? And I'm like, oh, this is just. I mean, it has no idea. But that's the type of but again, as a top athlete in the sport, that's the kind of influence and the ability to change people's lives that you have, and lots of times I don't think that athletes realize the power that they have because you don't know who's following you.
Speaker 1:We have a small story, but I did a seminar a couple years ago with Jessica Wilson, who just won the Masters Olympia and she's a veterinarian and so when we were doing the seminar, again, everybody else, the girls were much younger and something like that. She's only 40, so it's not like she's ancient, but she was over that 35 mark where the other girls were a little bit younger and stuff and she said to me she said Sandy, I don't think most of the girls here aren't going to have questions for me we walked out of the seminar, two girls young girls walked up to her and said oh my God, I'm in veterinarian school. I have been following you for and I looked at Jessica and I said that's what I try to tell you. You have no idea who is out there. That's something, your story resonates with them and you're going to have an impact on their life.
Speaker 2:It's tapping into who. You are right. There's a lot of young guys and girls that will see who's at the top of the tree and try to be like them. But just be and that's. I can only speak for myself, right? A lot of people when I came to this country were like, bro, we can't understand the word you say, and you probably understand any of every other word. I'm sure was still Sandy, but they asked me straight away you got to try to speak a little more American. I was like there's no way. I've been in this country enough for 20 years. I pridefully still have my Welsh accent. This is who I am. Love me or hate me. If you don't, then unfollow whatever else. But there's a lot of guys and girls who will see what the top people are doing and lose their own path in life. What advice do you give to these guys and girls that are maybe just getting into fitness and seeing the top of the tree and wants to be the next C-bum?
Speaker 1:The thing is you. The only person that you're competed against is you. It really is. Every show is your winner if you are better than your last show. You know what I mean and I tell that to every athlete. But again, you have to find the balance. You and I both know getting that pro card is not going to make you a multimillionaire. Okay.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:Show to the back, yes, but unfortunately many athletes think that the minute you get that card, like sponsors are going to be knocking at your door and stuff. I'm sorry it's not going to happen. You, the ability to make something happen is there, but you yourself like you, jay, you yourself what you've done, somebody like said you've made you are the ones that have to go out and find your niche in the sport, like then stuff, if you want to make this your career. But I tell people all the time, you have to have a balance. You cannot give up that family. Hopefully I've told the story a lot of times, so Sid Gillion won't get upset with me, but she won her pro card.
Speaker 1:I was not there at the universe at her last when she was a senior in college, okay, and so she was an NCAA track athlete. She went to Chicago and won her first pro show, or at least she won the Chicago show, that. So she was now qualified for the Olympia. So I was doing she's from Atlanta, georgia. I was doing Southern state. She drove down to Florida to show me pictures and said to me what you know, what do I, oh sorry, what do I need to do for the Olympia? And I'm.
Speaker 1:When I looked at her thing I said, oh honey, you need to bring those quads down, run those quads down and stuff. But I said to her she said she just graduated from high, I mean from college. So I said to her so what's next on the agenda? And she said she was accepted to three med schools. Okay, I had friends that tried to get into med school and it's a couple of them never, never made it in. Yes, and I looked at her and I said I'll tell you right now if I've come to the Olympia in September and you're not in med school, I'm not talking to you. And oh, I did. And I asked this is a true story? I asked Sid, she got eighth at her first Olympia. I went backstage and I said to congratulations. And I said oh, my God, how's which med school did? And she stopped and I said I'm not talking to you and I walked away.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Do not give up your, do not give up your career and your family and your life. You, there, I, everybody, I know this is again. I know so many athletes and again, obviously more the women because that's who I associate with more that have that balance. Like the Sid Gillions she went back and got her masters at USC and stuff Whitney Jones, who not only is a promoter, she's a mother. She's at every one of her sons you know football games and stuff and she'll tell you she's doing cardio, why the team is warming up. You know what I mean. There is a balance, there is a way to do. You know, to do both and to do both well, but don't give up because again, we all saw it what four years ago, where they shut the world down you. There's no guarantees on anything for tomorrow. So you have to make sure.
Speaker 1:Even when I met Jay Jay was 19 when I met him and I remember walking down in San Diego, california, and I said to Ted when we were leaving I said, oh my God, that young guy has a head on his shoulders, he get. He had no idea that what he was going to do in bodybuilding Okay, but he knew whatever. It was a short timeframe he was already thinking of else. What he was going to do after that Absolutely, and that's that's the only thing is, I would tell athletes you can never, don't ever, give up your life for this. You're only going to be 21 once. You still even Tyler, when he started taking over the NPC, I said to him you still have to be 21, you still have to be 22. You can't do that when you're 42. You know what I mean, and that's the biggest thing you have to find that balance between the in that journey.
Speaker 2:Balance is the biggest thing, right? Balance has allowed me to become the best bodybuilder I couldn't have ever imagined, only as I used it as my motivation before I was came over here. As I said at a young age, it was only me, I only had to answer to me, I only had to focus on me. But then when you get a significant other, or what's happened?
Speaker 1:with me and children and family absolutely.
Speaker 2:And that's one of the reasons why, you know, the retirement popped up in my head, because I gone through many Mr Olympias with my daughter and then, when I found out Ali was pregnant, I was like I'd love to have that champ title as much as I believed I could do it. But with all the changes that were happening, I was like I got to be present. I got to be present, so I put my family first and I've always done that the best of my ability. But there's so much. There's so much focus and selfish nature in any sport when you're at the top. But again, it's just finding that balance, because who's your biggest cheerleader to go home to right, it's got to be your wife or your husband or your children. But if there's resentment there, then you're doing it for the wrong reasons. You're doing it for Instagram likes, you're doing it for turning up to have fans that are standing in line for you, but then when that expose done, that show is done, you go back to your hotel room. You're there talking to who right?
Speaker 1:You absolutely, and especially when, obviously, when you're married, but when you have children again. We just said your daughter's eight years old. Do you want to, did you want to be somebody that missed those first five years? Because you're never going to get that back. They're going to be and again, this is just because I'm old, but they're going to be in high school and leaving home before you can know it. And I will tell you, if you're not there in their lives growing up, then you've missed your, your Mr Calling.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean being a parent and being a husband or wife, whatever is gotta be the more priority. But, like I said, and you don't have to give up the competition, you just have to be able to find the balance. And I know I just had a young I'm gonna say young 50 because Tyler would say to me she's not a kid, Sandy, but to me, sorry kid, but again she did. The Patriots here in Vegas won the masters. First of all, she won true novice. Then she won the masters, Then she won the third, the 50, the 45, the 40 and the open.
Speaker 2:Damn. She pissed off a lot of people in that show.
Speaker 1:I went backstage and first thing I said to her I said okay, you didn't just wake up yesterday and you're gonna compete, especially when I said true novice, because obviously to your listeners that means that they've never been on the stage before.
Speaker 1:And she goes oh my God, no. She said I started training when I was 18. She said I saw pictures, she saw magazines of Rachel McCliss. She said and I started training. She said but then I met my husband, we had the two daughters, she said, and I didn't have the time. She said, but I never stopped training. She still lived this lifestyle. Daughters went off to college. She got on stage. Week later, masters Nationals got her pro-card.
Speaker 2:Wow, it's just you as an artist, fuel right You've got, regardless of circumstance, as long as you're using that balance and that motivation whatever it's coming from, whether it's for your kids, whatever else to push you through them hard times. But then you still have to put that different heart on. And I remember many times where I'd be training with Dallas RIP or Rafael Brando or in my Boca Raton location and we would be lifting some ungodly amount of weight up and then we'd go back to my house and I was like the thing and next thing we were on the floor and the guys were playing with my daughter and it's just like you know, the separation between the beast and then uncle or dad was just an easy transition. And again, just put in bodybuilding. I preach about this too, and this is something I learned from Neil very young on and very young in my career, I was so focused on bodybuilding. I was consumed by everything. I would read every message board. I would read every bad comment above me, nothing. I'd read a good water of a duck's back. I would read every negative comment from my nickname, flex, which I've had since I was six, all the way to yeah, there's no back or whatever else it would be, and I would just be consumed by the negative element of it. And I thought it was fuel because I was going into the gym and training. But what I didn't realize is, instead of putting an all out into the gym and then shutting down in the gym, I would take it home and I'd be back on fueling myself all night, all day. It's just having that balance.
Speaker 2:And I spoke to Nick Walker. He's found that balance in life because he was very similar young, 20 year old, looking for motivation through negative comments or whatever. And now Nick has progressed tremendously over the last two years. We've all seen that unfortunately he didn't make the Olympia, but yet you could see the improvements going in. But he is one of them guys who has now listened to the advice that some of these older guys have given him. May have taken him a little bit of time to get in, but now he can preach it to the younger generation because he has a fan base who is much younger than maybe Myreach. They'll look up to him because he's the most current pro. But balance, yes, is key. Sandy, sorry to go off on it.
Speaker 1:Well, no, and the thing is just like you said, though, about going home then with the guys that you were lifting with, and now, all of a sudden, you're the dad or they're playing with your daughter and stuff. The thing is that you have to remember, too, you are also a mentor to your children, because, again, I'm not sure where Ireland and stuff is, but here in America, I think we're at a 54% obesity rate. Yeah, it's a huge obesity rate, and when I've got into nursing, type two diabetes was not even in the books at the time. It's crazy. And when it first started coming in the late 70s, it was elderly people, sedentary, heavy elderly people. Now you're seeing type two diabetes in young children.
Speaker 1:Okay, and because, again, I'm sure when you were younger too, we went outside and played. Now everything is on the iPad, in front of the TV and stuff. So you, as a parent, you and, again, I don't even think most of the competitors that are parents realize, but your children are learning a good nutrition, even though obviously, it's not like they're never gonna, but still the bulk of the food in the house is still gonna be more toward the healthy style, and they're realizing, no matter what happens in life, going to the gym and having some kind of physical exercise. You just it doesn't matter what's going on in the day, you just fit it in. And they're learning that. Except everybody says one. The five years that you're first is that's gonna shape a lot of what your ideas and philosophy is for life, and that's the stuff that they're learning from every competitor.
Speaker 2:My daughter grew up watching daddy eat his chicken and rice, so I always had to add a little extra couple of ounces. I had to head to out to Nila's like listen, coach, I'm not like trying to force myself in here, but if I don't add to my plate I'm not gonna even get my own macros in, my own carbs and my protein in. If I had chicken and rice or salmon, whatever else, she'd come up to me and I'd be like come on and sit on my lap.
Speaker 1:And you're gonna say no, I'm like I'm gonna say no.
Speaker 2:There's a few occasions when I was super hungry I was like, oh my God, just bite the bullet. But she's grown up loving healthy food.
Speaker 1:See, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Loving it.
Speaker 1:And as a parent in today's age, to me that is more important, no matter how you would have placed as an athlete, but that you've given that type of lifestyle to your children.
Speaker 2:I'd also say to the confidence that she's had because I brought her from the world to the exports. She's a big fan of Steve Weinberger. I don't know why she sees Steve maybe once a year, twice a year and she obviously I'm not complaining right If there's anybody that needs to be done.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, absolutely. She sees.
Speaker 2:Steve and says, oh my God, I'm seeing for you. She'd run to him and I mean, how'd he be like?
Speaker 1:You mean because he's such the most warm personal person.
Speaker 2:He loved it, though he loved it. He loves it. So, yes, but she has this confidence that's come from being around and I also think that she's got this skewed mindset to where people that are jacked and normal people and anybody who's skinny isn't normal. But that's something for another podcast. But, yeah, it's been great to have the fitness industry mold me now and all the lessons that I've learned being around the world, meeting different cultures, mold me into a better parent, just as you mentioned earlier, just seeing countries that Some people have.
Speaker 1:That honor is fortunate as well.
Speaker 2:Yes, and then you appreciate it and I was saying earlier me coming from Wales to the US at 19, I love my country but it's not and doesn't have the opportunities that the United States has. I came here and I seen, honestly, the glass half fallen. When people say the American dream is dead, I'm living proof that it isn't. As long as you put your heart back to front and you chase your goals and you have a belief sometimes it's a crazy belief, but you have to and you surround yourself with the right people who are there to support you, not knock you down Anything is achievable.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, and you're willing to work. Because I came from nothing and I come from a big family. I have five sisters, there's five of us, I should say four sisters, five of us girls, and I just think of we never thought when we were younger that we would ever have what we have. But thank God, my parents, my dad, gave us a great work ethic and again you put your mind to it and you're willing to put the hard work in. And I think that's one of the things that this sport does, because to do well in this sport you have to have be focused, you have to have determination, be willing, like you said, to go out there and lift but eat a certain way, even though you don't want to sometimes, and stuff. But those lessons it's going to carry over to you being a parent, being whatever your career is, whatever your profession is, if it's not part of the industry.
Speaker 2:I say this many times. Probably Tias has heard this so many. He's over it. But the lessons that I learned through competing and body building, and the failures too, no book could ever teach me. And that's just putting myself on a stage being judged, taking the criticism, going back then into the gym and working in the off season and then peeling it all off to step on stage. I have put Patuck and Rast and stood in the field of various different sports and I played very high level rugby run for my country. But body building is the hardest thing I've ever done Because, unlike damn sports, as we peak by eating less and physically you're looking from the eyes. You're looking incredible, but physically you are worn out, and that is the mental fortitude that separates a champion.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. It's funny because and hopefully Ashley is not going to get upset with me but she competes so much and more than a lot of other athletes, and I had always heard again through the grapevine that she never thought she'd win the Olympia again, so her goal was just to win as many shows as she could. So I asked her I didn't know her that a couple of years ago and I said to her why and she looked at me. She said you don't know what I did in college, do you? And I'm like no, I'd never talked to her before. And she said I was a 400 hurdler, I'm not a. You see, I can see your face.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was a hurdler too, OK yes.
Speaker 1:So I said to my husband he knows every past track Olympic athlete, all their, whatever their my records were and stuff. And when I said that, when I came home and I said do you know? And he goes, oh my god, sandy, he said that is an athlete. He said 400 hurdles and she said to me, she said training for that. She said through college I would puke my guts out every Tuesday, thursday. She said this lifestyle is a walk in a park for me. And yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Complete opposite for me. Complete opposite for me, Sandy. Ok, no, no.
Speaker 1:She said it was hard to. But again it's that ability to work through pain or do things when you don't want to. You know what I mean. And especially in our industry, especially because of the nutritional part, I think, an athlete going to lift weights or run certain distances and stuff, but to be able to again it does limit to like going out with, especially when you're young, going out and being 22 and having the pizza and stuff. You have to have a lot of discipline there.
Speaker 2:I said this like with my rugby years. So 18 is the drinking age in the UK. So just like you're 21, you try to push it a little bit younger, right?
Speaker 1:So 18, 19, whatever you mean, we have those IDs that say you're 18? Yeah, I mean, you're 21 and you're 18, I'm sure I had one when.
Speaker 2:I was 15. I said I was 18. So I had the rugby. Culture is play hard. You get beat up on the field and then you drink after. And it's such a social and a great it's a lot of camaraderie. So when I transitioned into bodybuilding I didn't think I was going to get that type of camaraderie, because it's such a standalone sport.
Speaker 1:It is. It's an individual sport, yep.
Speaker 2:But what I found was with the introduction of the 212 class, we had such a great camaraderie and we'd look at and I think from the open class no names mentioned, but you have a lot of groups of guys in the open class. When I was competing that would be clicked Be together. But then the two 12 guys, we were like one big traveling circus, traveling midget circus, but nonetheless I Said it.
Speaker 1:now you don't, I'm so glad that you said that.
Speaker 2:Dory, we just had two, two 12 guys. I won the Olympia the past two years. Yes but it was an incredible experience for me to travel the world with these guys and just I have the best Experience, even backstage. I'll give you one story which you judged me at. I don't know if you know this story or not, but we were in. We're in Korea.
Speaker 2:I knew you were gonna say that and I believe Prejudging had been done and we were back into room and they give me like this Handler he was. He's a guy who could speak English and so he said to me oh, you're not going on stage for another two hours. So me and Neil were in the room. I can remember vividly. I had my feet up, I was sitting on the bed, I had my feet up off the bed on the table, like that, and Neil was sitting on a comfy chair and we were just talking. He was like mate, he bought a great package, mate. That's how Neil speaks, right.
Speaker 1:I can see.
Speaker 2:And then my phone starts blowing up and I look at it. I'm like who's a raiment calling me? So I'm like, hello, he's a bro. Everybody's looking for you. Where are you? I go, what you mean? Everybody's looking for me, we're lining up. Look at this, I'm Diego goosebumps. We're lining up. Where are you? And Me and Neil, I took off. I had no time on. I had my prejudge in town on. I Ran downstairs and I see the handler. I look at him. I go, mint, you said I two hours, and this was about an hour after.
Speaker 2:I seen him and Everybody was lining up. Thankfully I was the last guy. I had ten minutes to put a ton on oil and I was pumping up until the very last moment. Do you know about any of that?
Speaker 1:I do, okay because a raiment, but that's. And when you said about the camaraderie, because again, obviously we were overseas but you obviously you had just won the 212, again because that each AGP was always that week later and creature.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely. And again, one of the things that I always liked that I heard about you was that you and Alex were friends and Not a lot of Olympia winners were gonna Go overseas and to compete the next weekend because you might not be in the same shape. You have to keep yourself in that shape. You know what I'm saying and stuff. But because you were friends with Alex, you always you were willing to do that for him to help his show and stuff. Yet, raymond, they were, they did not want you to miss out, even though would again, if you wouldn't have showed up, everybody else would have been moved up. Yes, absolutely, and from you, but the thing is they didn't want you not to be there, and that's what I'm saying. I always thought that group at the AGP and Korea was just an always a good group of guys to be around.
Speaker 2:Yes, and just to add to that too, robin Chang. I love Robin.
Speaker 1:Can I tell you really, Please, I love your stories. Let's go oh my god, one of the times. Because, again, robin at that time was producer, he was producing the Olympia. And then we'd go over to South, go over to Seoul, and I'd say to Robin, I'd say how the mighty have fallen. Last year you produced the Olympia, this year You're my expediter.
Speaker 2:He rolls his sleeves up on anything.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm saying. It did never. Him and Maria and mercy. Whatever show they went to, whatever needed to be done yes, whatever hat they needed to help that show succeed, they didn't care. And again, that's part of what makes the NPC and the IPB where it is, because we have so many people Like there.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe I'm gonna say one more thing and hopefully Jim won't get mad at go ahead because I always said to Jim, I always say to Jim, I said you are so fortunate that you have Robin, because he's such an ambassador, obviously, as the international vice president he can interact with anybody and he's just. And so I say to Jim he is the just one of the nice. I would. I say he is the nicest guy in this sport. And Jim, what are we saying to me? Sandy, really the nicest guy you know in this sport, and I'd go, jim, manion nice.
Speaker 2:Jim's not gonna not like that, come on.
Speaker 1:But Robin is he just. But, like I said, he just whatever show he went to, whatever. If it would have been being the janitor Backstage, he is willing to do that. I've seen it. Yeah, yeah, I've seen it.
Speaker 2:I've been. I'll say this to how I knew mentioned Alex. Right, I didn't know Alex Until I got introduced him on my first show. I mean, I met him like through the expose and he got introduced to me, but I didn't have a relationship with him. But Robin Chang, obviously I've had a relationship with Robin since. So Robin Was the guy that put my first contract together for weeder. Really yes so me and him go right back to 20 years old.
Speaker 2:Yeah so Robin truly has seen me come through as this teenager all the way to where I am now. That's why I've been trying you got to try and help me on this to get Robin on the podcast. Robin, he does not like doing any type of media, but you've got to bully me.
Speaker 1:I will, because actually, robin and Mercy, they only live one exit up from us.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:We're fortunate enough, not that we gives again, he travels so much and stuff and the same with me but we do get we're. We are able to get together his wife and and Ted and myself, like once or twice a year just for dinner, away from away from the sport, in the sport and stuff. But no, because I had said earlier I never had an interest in promoting, I just didn't. I love judging, I love being, you know. But then Jim had called again. This is why I, when Jim calls me, I should learn to say no.
Speaker 1:I know, I just thinking about this because he called me and said he had heard through the grapevine and again it Robin knows the story so I'm not saying but it I never wanted to promote. But I made a comment to somebody about the junior nationals because that they were not the promoters, were not going to do anymore. So Jim called me and said would you be willing to co-promote it with Robin? And I stopped and I'm like sure I got off and Ted goes to me, goes, You're gonna promote a show. I said how can I say no to Robin? I said I'm the same thing. I said I'm gonna do it once. I'll just help the first year. That way I'm not telling Robin no and then him he can do it himself and stuff and but again, it's been one of the best experience of my life. Him and obviously Doug Green who's done the stage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've gotten to meet two guys that I really have always respected Robin, but I didn't know, I didn't know Doug and I just again, he's another one I just they're good people, you know what I mean and stuff. And obviously Doug has done so much in his life and when I said to him I said, so you're doing the junior nationals why? And he goes because of Robin. Yeah, he said I will always be there. But another funny story I don't know if Doug knows this, I didn't know if I told of this one, but when Robin first, we did our first conference call together leading up to the first junior nationals, robin said do I need to make introductions here? And Usually me I jump in right away. But I thank God I didn't because Doug went.
Speaker 1:No, he said I talked to Sandy at the nationals because again, they were, was then during Covis, was the end of the year. He said and I just saw her at, we talked at the Olympia. Okay, so we did our conversation and I got off the phone. I called somebody said you know who in the hell Doug Green is? And they said oh, just Google. I forget about the Google sometimes. So I went. So I didn't, I went to his Instagram. I looked at him and I went nobody, I don't have a clue.
Speaker 2:But for every who doesn't know the names mentioned Robin Chang was the promoter for the Mr Olympia for 15 years. Incredible and I was very fortunate to compete. In fact, I did my last, my very last show and the Robin Chang as a promoter and also went on to the road, on the road, with, joined by yourself, everywhere around, the world, and Doug did the stage for him all those years and dug down the stage.
Speaker 2:So when Robin finished, doug was like okay, this is my end of chapter, until this opportunity arised and now, in my old stomping grounds of Tennessee, has become probably the, I know, probably. I know. It's the biggest show in Tennessee the junior nationals. How many competitors you have 400 last year incredible Sunday.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we had 400, but I will say Probably the second best stage in the country after the Olympia. Doug, just we're again. Without Doug we obviously we couldn't do it. But Doug brings this production. Obviously he's done stuff all over the world resort world here in Vegas and stuff and to be part of To watch him and his guys are just amazing what he's brought to make that stage look like it was and it was funny because LEDs had just started to come in obviously. And I remember when we did the first one and I was thinking to myself that it's clean and then get Doug's plane.
Speaker 1:I, I did, but then. But the thing is, don't forget, I do all the email critiques and when I started to see the athletes stand out in every one of our pictures, they're because the LEDs can, you can end up blending in back there. You know what I mean and stuff. And I did, I text, doug, and I said oh my god, I love our stage because the pictures are the athlete, and Like a low because the sponsors logos go individually, depending on what. But again, once your logo comes up, it's there by itself.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean if you're a company. And again, it was live stream because of shiru all over the all over the world, but Doug just did set, he did he, just he's again, both of them. I've been so fortunate again Because I've learned so much a different part aspect of our sport because of those two three different skill sets coming in right you coming in with with your skill set, robin and Doug.
Speaker 2:And this is the same thing with Doug as with my show with the flex Loose classic, with that's what Doug done for my show was we were partners in the show. Obviously, I moved, but and that's one of the reasons and one of the things that we got feedback on was the stage, and what we done was ship the exact stage from the Expo. We're the lights, because that go on it, yeah. So nobody had any complaints about all. The light didn't suck. It's the same one at the Olympia.
Speaker 1:No, what yeah, that's what I'm saying. We were, we were so fortunate again not realizing. Again I'm obviously I've judged under dark lights, big lights, whatever, and as a judge, it's always as long as all the athletes are judged under the same, the same lighting and stuff, I never really cared but I never realized the difference until it does. And yeah, what Doug's Experience and what what him and his team bring I'm serious bring to our state, it's unbelievable, it's the consistency right.
Speaker 2:So if you've got people on the end, they're still lit, exactly like the person who's in the middle Went before.
Speaker 2:And you go to a high school and they use in the rigs that are already up there and this is no knocking anybody who's doing a show in a high school, this is just, unfortunately, you only working with the lights that are up there, so the year before your great lights, but then they've had about a hundred things that have gone on and some of them lights are burnt out by the time they get back there and if somebody hasn't changed them, then somebody on the ends in completely black, absolutely.
Speaker 2:But what there's? The new standard has come through also with the IVB and the MPC, and that's one thing that you guys In the heat in in Pittsburgh HQ a being more consistent with promoters on. You make sure that there's a criteria that is met, and now Some of the promoters of all that I might have had a grandfathered show in, who are, you know, been doing it for years, even now they have to implement these new rule changes. So that's what I was getting at. There's an evolution not just on the judging criteria, but also the promoters are still being checked in on oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's no like you just can go with the flow type. No, you have to keep up. And I tell this to athletes all the time. I say to seminars to athletes I say at the seminars I say, like I said, use are the foundation. Okay, there are so many shows here now around. We're so fortunate around the world, here in the US, that you can pick and choose what shows you want to go to. You're gonna go to the shows that you think are well run, that you're respected, that our judgment. Other promoters are either gonna step up to the plate or they're gonna go by the wayside.
Speaker 1:It's a business and talking about evolution. One of the biggest things for 2024 I was gonna say almost 2023. Again 2024, though, is there's gonna be a lot more Drug tested in natural shows. In the NPC, like I said, we see a steve car. Austin car did the steve classic, he the Las Vegas classic, and he added a natural portion to it. I have two coming up with the Delo Garcia in Texas, and rich Palmer is doing one, and now the Ben Weeder natural is a pro qualifier, and they also have the pro component of it, though, that the pros can come and compete there. It's drug tested and the winners get it.
Speaker 1:Like I said, invite to the Olympia, but Tyler's already looking at because, again, it's. I tell athletes all the time, it's what it's we. If the demand is there, it's gonna happen, and so he's already looking at 2025 to have some, you know, natural pro shows. You know what I mean, because I just I think and he does too, obviously that the demand is gonna be there. I get the same thing from the Masters. For years, I kept masters because that's our biggest growing age group right now and the Masters to say when they're gonna bring the Masters Olympia back, and I said it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen as the demand gets there. You know what I mean. It's really based on what you want. You know what it's a business. So more the more masters that compete it's. And then last year we had the first Masters again, and I think ten years in Romania and it's I will tell you we had because I was on the selection committee. We had I think it was over 450 athletes that applied, applied for the Masters Olympia.
Speaker 2:Wow how many people ended up standing on stage?
Speaker 1:I want to say we picked 20 in each of the categories I don't know again, because you always know there's a couple that get toward the end and they're not. They end up not coming but at 20 in each of the divisions were invited.
Speaker 2:Talking of divisions, obviously there's been a multitude of different divisions that have been created. Back when you first got into the sport, it was one, two.
Speaker 1:People say to me what division did you compete in? I went in 1981. There was only one. Because they look at me and they go bodybuilding and, yes, I was this big.
Speaker 2:But how have you been able to? Obviously, like I said, the sport evolved we mentioned that word tremendously from the promoters. This, the standard now in each class is also evolved from. You will mention in mark, from the first Mr Olympia to now Ryan Terry, there's been, you know, immense physique in just in particular. But looking back at the landscape of all these different athletes that are coming in and then seeing the need to create different classes, how hard is it to sit down and create that criteria? And who do you do that with?
Speaker 1:Jim. Again, steve has always been part of it. Now, obviously, tyler's obviously the main portion, the main portion seriously, because again, that's life you need and I with even with judging, we need younger people and I always say to Tyler, this is gonna be your organization, you know what I mean and stuff, and also to what that next generation wants, what and stuff. So again, but again it's the people around him, like the tamer al-Gindy's and Steve and Gary, they, and he reaches out to other people in especially international. Now there's people overseas that he talks to, probably Ian from England and stuff, and obviously Robin, because he's he goes all over the world Like where, where should we start with? And don't be wrong, we've talked about this, even Jim has always done will put for the classic physique, heists and weights in thing.
Speaker 1:But that's not set in stone. When you add a new division, it's gonna grow, it's gonna change and the athletes themselves are gonna help shape what it's gonna look like. And if we have to change the criteria A little bit, we do based on what, what the athletes seem to seem to want. And I think one of the biggest things this year, I think, is Tyler doing those videos because he does visuals and I tell people all the time you can say to somebody like I can say to you, flex, you need to be bigger, how much big? But when I do a cut and paste and I say you need to be this tighter or you need to pose this way, and now they can look and they go okay, and that's what obviously Tyler does with the videos. And one of the things is we realize as an organization we're looking a little bit too much for the conditioning and Conditioning is for one day. Full muscle bellies and developing muscle is for your lifetime and it's especially for women. It's what's gonna keep us healthier.
Speaker 1:The older we get Stuff and stuff, we're always looking at the crime. That's how men's classic physique came about. We started men's physique. After that first year guys started. You know, and I tell athletes all the time it's so easy now to send an email to the National Office just with whatever they're gonna look when they start to see a common thread coming through, mm-hmm, they're gonna look at it and that what happened? A lot of the guys said why can't we just look like, show our legs, but why do we have to be as big as bodybuilders? And that's work and they were already doing it overseas a little bit at the time, and so that's where that came into. So I tell the athletes I think sometimes they don't realize the power that they have but this organization is Based on athletes, otherwise you don't have anything and it's a category for everybody.
Speaker 2:You know South America, you've got girls with incredibly big legs and now they found a home in wellness and that is a category that has been welcomed into the IFBB. I think it's probably loved by some any Especially.
Speaker 1:Yes, sorry, because women weren't. Most women are not built like a V shape. Most women are a little bit narrow in the upper body, a little bit wider in the hips, because it's nature's way, it's. You know, you're gonna be here to deliver, to have, for, you know, for babies and stuff. So I just think a lot of women were always chasing, trying to grow that upper body. And now and we have a lot of young women coming from that the sports like soccer and volleyball and track and field they already have the muscularity downstairs. They were always trying to find that balance.
Speaker 2:You're trying to burn off that legs to get the class as opposed to find a class.
Speaker 1:Yes and I. And if everybody used to always say you like Steve likes muscle, sandy doesn't like muscle. And I will tell you, though I For me to tell a female that you need to downsize the muscle, I'd rather I will I'll be the first one to say to you you need to go up, because I do know muscle is gonna make women healthier, especially as you get older.
Speaker 2:It just is we'll land this plane on a few different things. You mentioned, taylor, and obviously, what he's been bringing to the IFBB with a new set of eyes young, youthful, seeing it from different perspectives. He's got his finger on social media and, whether he liked it or not, now he's in front of the camera and he's doing as you said he's grown.
Speaker 1:Tyler has grown and that's one of the nice things like for me, because obviously I came in with Jim and I've always known JM because JM and I are the ones that traveled overseas the last time to the thing. But JM's focus obviously was with the photography on media and stuff where I've seen Tyler now grow like his grandfather.
Speaker 2:Literally grow, though You've seen him as a young.
Speaker 1:I knew his mom and dad before he was a thought in their head.
Speaker 2:So yes, I wasn't going to say baby, but yeah, oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, he wasn't even, yes, he wasn't even thought in his head and Tyler and I do remind Tyler that quite often but yeah, but I've seen, and I've seen him grow now as a young band Because again it's a I don't think people sometimes understand the responsibility and he's such a young kid especially. He was just, he was already judging before and I don't know if that people realize. Jim made him test judge. He, oh yeah, he test judged all through college and stuff. So he he's, he's paid his dues and stuff and again he is. He's the young one. He is already looking like I said he's the one that's pushing now for the natural shows and stuff, but looking ways to continue growth in our organization.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah, and that's the most exciting thing for me. Obviously, I've seen Tyler test judging, being at shows.
Speaker 2:I remember him when he was an exceptional wrestler and doing that and then transitioning into his role right now, to now become the person he's. I take my hat off. And to your point too, people don't understand the pressure that comes with that job, and you have to have thick skin as a judge and as a young man who hasn't lived the life that yourself and other judges have because of not by, you know, just by not living on the edge.
Speaker 1:Yes, by already being thrown in to so much of the the running of the organization before he really well, it said he was a 22 when he got, probably when he got out of college, and he, you know, I say to him constantly you still have to be 22. You still have to be 26. You still have to be because again, you do you. He also needs to find a balance because all of a sudden you're going to be 40 and you can't go back and do those 20 years, those 20 year old years again, they're gone, they're gone. So you have to you do, and again you do that by surrounding yourself with people that have your back and know have they, have the passion for the sport and they have the organization at the forefront.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I think he's done a good job of proposing to his fiance and having that backup, and then, obviously, traveling around the world together, getting to live life and also when they get the judges suits on. That is all business. And I, as I said earlier, I've seen Tyler transition into the role he's in right now and nobody has grown through this sport more than him. The knowledge that he's been able to see the shows, that he's been able to sit behind his grandfather and learn from, and now the evolution from the boss to now Tyler and passing all that knowledge forward and back and forth is the exciting thing, because the evolution of this sport is now being seen from the stage all the way to the athletes, all the way to the criterias. But one question I want to leave you with Looking ahead what do you envision for the future of bodybuilding regarding opportunities and advancements for athletes? You know what I just think you're going to see that to continually agree.
Speaker 1:Because, again, I don't think people realize and I wish somehow we did have this data, like how many athletes have either started businesses, joined, supplement, joined businesses and stuff and have made a career. Because, like I said, I Margaret Chen, with Toxic Games, made a huge success as a business woman. The girl and again I'm horrible here as I forget her name, but the girl that started Chew Fairy, she told me at our first thing. She said, sandy, I didn't know the first thing about shoes, but she saw the need for it and now she's a multi-million dollar business. And that's one of the things that sometimes the workshops and these seminars do, because it allows you to network and to listen to where other people started.
Speaker 1:I have a girl that started a meal prep company and she took me to the company and she took off for a year because she said, sandy, my husband quit his job. We now have 13 people that work for us and stuff. So again, there's opportunity here and I think, as especially now, as this natural portion just increases our numbers, I just think those opportunities are you're going to see, are just even going to be even bigger.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I would love to see some big mainstream sponsors coming in. I was very blessed when I was competing to be signed by Monster as one of the only athletes to do that. Going back to the original podcast, it was more me being a brand and an ambassador that got the attention of Monster and that's what I would like the athlete to listen in.
Speaker 1:One thing I think that we don't do well as an organization Okay and I've said this to Jim is when again maybe because my ex-husband was a big NASCAR thing, so we'd go to the drags and we go to NASCAR races and when one of those guys win, there is nobody that can rattle off 50 sponsors in tech, but they are.
Speaker 1:And I didn't realize too recently that they actually go to a class to learn how to. And to me we should be teaching, we as an organization should be teaching us to every Arnold winner, every Olympia winner, because if I'm Monster or I'm Redcon and now I sponsor you and you're going to get up, especially now with live stream, that you're going to get up there and you're going to say I want to spend muster, I want to sing reds, that is going to give credit and I think that if I win, like now, I more sponsors will go than I need to sponsor that type of athlete because look at the look at the audience that he appeals to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like with Chris and I know Chris has sponsors coming out, but again, it's because of the audience that he generates. Companies took notice of that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and he's done a great job of getting that exposure and there's so many more athletes that could take advantage of these opportunities and there's opportunity and evidence. It's just being yourself, chasing dreams down, knocking doors and putting yourself in uncomfortable situations. The opportunities that happen for me is because I went outside of the bodybuilding space. I put myself around fighters, I put myself around business guys, I put myself in seminars and I was talking to audiences that knew me and really loved to hear the story about bodybuilding but really didn't know anything about competing. But the fascinating thing of telling your story up there it's yours and obviously me, coming from the UK chasing this American dream is always one that is well received, to the point now where it's gone full circle.
Speaker 2:I've got the podcast, I have a speaking coach that I work with because I'm doing a lot more speaking engagements to newer audiences. So my goal is now to open the door for other athletes, keep on continuing flying the flag for bodybuilding and, as we mentioned and we've been talking back and forth, even though I don't compete, I'll never forget where I come from, who is there and what bodybuilding done for me, and I just want to personally thank you for all the amazing memories that you've given me, from snarling to, smiling to and all of the above. It's been an absolute pleasure to represent the IFBB and Opsol represent you, whatever we are around the world, and we've been many different places. So I just want to say thank you, sandy, for this opportunity to talk and get to know your story a little bit more, for my audience to hear this and be motivated and inspired, and the floor is yours if you've got any last parting words.
Speaker 1:No, just like I said, I don't think people realize what this sport has done for so many people and again, I know more from the female standpoint because obviously that's more, but it has saved countless lives. I have so many women that I'll talk to that have battled cancer, have lost children, have other diseases that they battled, and yet they can still get on stage, because no matter where you end up placing on stage, this sport can only make you a better person, absolutely. And that's yep.
Speaker 2:And with that said, Sandy, what I'm excited about is all these new things that you have got in store, including workshops and shows and junior nationals and traveling around the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I don't have them in store because I'm trying to get younger and younger people. I keep saying this to Tyler all the time. He always tells everybody I'm just going to push her to the judges table in her wheelchair, as long as her eyes are good, I know. And I'll say to Etala, because I always still say, because, again, sitting sometimes 12 hours at a table is a long day and I always tease her and I'll go 50 more years and she goes, yeah, but you have to be around. And I said you're really dumb at math, aren't you? And no, I'm not. We have that next generation that'll come up, but I just, I really do. I think, and I think it's got to be just heartwarming for Jim to see he never knew whether he was going to make money off of this sport, where it was going to go and stuff, and to be able to see what you've created and to leave the legacy to your grandson. And he really does have the passion.
Speaker 1:One other funny story with Tyler, because you mentioned he was and you went to college on a wrestling scholarship and the first time he was overseeing the Arnold's and we were going to dinners and he was late, you know coming down to meet us and he said, yeah, he said I was weighing the guys in. Jim's wife, debbie, and I looked at each other and we went you were weighing the guys in and so do you think anybody got past that weight scale? That wasn't right on the button from a, you know, a wrestler. Yeah, no, debbie and I looked at each other and said, man, I would have loved to be a little mouse in that room. He was not. Oh man, he had Danny Hester. He told him you need to go. You know what I mean and stuff.
Speaker 1:He weighed me in too oh and it was, but it was just so fun you know what I mean, and stuff Cause I'm thinking okay, you aren't going to, you aren't going to, nobody's going to be asked that the wrestler, he knows that this is what your weight is, that's what you're getting at Okay, who you are, what Instagram following?
Speaker 2:you have make the weight pal. Get back out there.
Speaker 1:Debbie and I just laughed for like oh, this could really change the ways in weighing at the top shows.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Because guys knew they had to come in. There was no leeway.
Speaker 2:On height too, yes, oh absolutely.
Speaker 1:You know, hands down absolutely. But that's another thing. Real quick too, with the advent of our muscle wear, software and stuff, that now cause each year it'll get more information will be available. Andrew keeps updating obviously the software stuff, because one of the things that I've been saying this now for a couple of years, like for the, especially for the pros, the classic, those heists need to be in the computer so that cause again every time you go to a different show.
Speaker 1:It's still human people that the floor, the scale and stuff, even though we all use the same equipment, those guys, the guys should not have to be worried about. Your height did not change from last weekend and stuff. I know that's already.
Speaker 2:I wish it did for me in the other direction, but unfortunately it didn't.
Speaker 1:Sunday so I think that you're going to see changes that way, which again is going to make life a lot easier for those athletes that when that height and weight is an issue Just cause, like you said earlier, evolution right. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:On closing, you mentioned about Jim and Tyler and what has gone on there, from Jim saying he didn't know if he's going to make money into it, and what he's done and to get to it is no, but you are a massive, intricate part of that growth. From a champion and a representative of the IFBB, again I want to say thank you for everything you've done for the athletes, myself included, and all the females that you've created stages and opportunities and categories for just by being Sunday. So from me to you, I truly appreciate it. The queen of bodybuilding and thank you.
Speaker 1:Obviously, I can't thank you enough, but also to I did not cry.
Speaker 2:You did not cry.
Speaker 1:I didn't push you either, to be honest, the first time we did the women's workshop when they Jim watched it live from home and stuff, and he watched it afterwards and I only thing I did was the introduction and Debbie says I said to Debbie goes, I think she. Jim said to Debbie, I think she's crying. Debbie said oh, she cried the whole entire day.
Speaker 2:I can already tell you that we're going to get you back for a part two of it If you want to, as I'll get them out of you. I was PG today, but nonetheless straight out there. Join today by Sandy Williamson. I appreciate you. Come back anytime. Obviously, we're going to talk about some stuff off camera to bring an MPC workshop here in the future, but we hope.
