Manuel Thompson-Ọ́lọ́kọ̀
Hi, I'm Manuel Thompson Oloko, Early Talent and Apprenticeship Partner at City & Guilds. Today, I'm delighted to be joined by Leslie Bamber, Early Careers UK and Ireland lead at WTW to discuss championing investments into early talent. In this episode, you'll hear about strategies for successful apprentice retention, innovative approaches to early talent development, and effective methods for organisations to engage diverse audiences, all aimed at strengthening your workforce.
Manuel Thompson-Ọ́lọ́kọ̀
Hello, Leslie, thank you for joining us, today on another episode of our podcast series.
Lesley Bamber
Very nice to be here and to see you once again, Manuel.
Manuel Thompson-Ọ́lọ́kọ̀
Amazing. Obviously I've been bumping into you, quite a lot recently I think the last time was at the Princess Royal Training Awards.
Lesley Bamber
Which was at St James's palace, really austere. I mean it's exciting to be inside that palace, wasn't it? Yeah, to meet Princess Anne, so yeah. That's certainly been a career highlight for me to date without without exception.
Manuel Thompson-Ọ́lọ́kọ̀
Oh, amazing. This whole podcast also stems from your receipt of that award to, see how we can share best practice with the other winners of the awards as well as other individuals across, our networks.
So I just wanted to start off by getting a better understanding of how you. have approached your alignment between early talent, apprenticeships, and the wider sort of talent development within your organisation?
Lesley Bamber
Absolutely. Our early careers programme is absolutely about driving diversity within WTW and the apprenticeship programme is at the heart of that.
We want to attract people from all walks of life. You'll know that the insurance financial services sector is quite, white middle class male dominated, and that's absolutely why we need to drive their diversity into various underrepresented talents.
With former apprentices, they're now moving into leadership roles and we've got actual apprentices leading and managing other apprentices, which is brilliant in terms of succession planning.
And that's really galvanised the importance of our strategy to meet the future demands of the business.
Manuel Thompson-Ọ́lọ́kọ̀
Absolutely. And I think for the most part, it's how, we help other employers who typically haven't, taken that approach in terms of how apprenticeships can support such activity.
But how crucial would you say it is to your organisation's wider talent strategy?
Lesley Bamber
It is. When you look at the makeup of the UK skills shortages, we've got an aging workforce. The birth rate has dropped quite dramatically over recent decades that and the lacking of diversity in the insurance industry across the board, that has shifted WTW's thinking around strategic workforce planning.
The Aprenticeship Levy in 2017, and that was why I was brought into the WTW to lead that strategy. That was the final ingredient to elevate. WTW's focus towards apprenticeships and we embrace pathways across several business areas and it has got significant strategic importance as part of that broader UK people strategy.
It's integral to that strategy without any doubt whatsoever. And that's the crux of it. It has to be integrated. To do it piecemeal, that will not lead to a successful strategy. You have to have it integrated across the whole organisation.
Manuel Thompson-Ọ́lọ́kọ̀
Absolutely. I totally agree. What impact would you say that has had in, in terms of embedding apprenticeships into the organisation?
Lesley Bamber
Oh, it's absolutely been a step change when we think about early careers talent and the recruitment over recent years, The success of the apprenticeship scheme has absolutely started predominantly within insurance.
It's expanded, rapidly expanded over the last seven years into new locations, different standards and graduate schemes. We've got graduates that are now on apprenticeship programmes the target is, increased. It's funny when you look back and you think, what was the target in 2017? It was literally 20 apprentices in a couple of locations on two or three standards.
Manuel Thompson-Ọ́lọ́kọ̀
Right.
Lesley Bamber
That has grown significantly. We're now across over 10 locations. We've employed around about 700, odd apprentices. And that's not just new apprentices. Our strategy was very much around. And we have around about still about 300 odd apprentices on apprenticeships at the moment, but it's also about developing existing colleagues as well.
And this is at all levels from the advanced higher and degree levels. And we have around about still about 300 odd apprentices on apprenticeships at the moment.
And I think the other thing is that when you look at the impact on embedding that into the organisation, we have to think about retention because we do need to retain this talent. There is a lot of competition out there. But our retention levels are still high at around 72% ish after six years and that's above the market norm when you look at the Institute of Student Employers, that surveys around about 59 percent after three years and 56 after five.
So we can look at stats and stats are all very well, but it's actually about the impact that these apprenticeships have made to the individual. and their lives, their early careers, but also, as I say, in terms of the impact to the organisation as well, and I'd say that the diversity has certainly increased as well over that, length of time. So yeah, that leads into our long term succession plans.
Manuel Thompson-Ọ́lọ́kọ̀
So a couple of points that you made earlier.
So you talked about not just focusing apprenticeships on insurance, how many other specific routes with apprenticeships, could you give us a general highlight of what that looks like across the board?
Lesley Bamber
It's a myriad of routes. You've got the traditional insurance routes, absolutely. The insurance professional level, level four, but we've also got actuarial, we've got project management, we've got technology
Finance, payroll. I can absolutely go on and on. And what's important in all of that is. What's right for the business. So in terms of hiring new apprentices into the business, it's making sure they've got the support. I mean, when we talk about best practice, they have to have the support with pensions as well, by the way, but we have to have the support within the teams within the line manager support to understand what's involved in an apprenticeship.
Because until you've actually done one, you don't know what's involved in the line manager has to be well aware of their role and their expectations. So I think that's a critical ingredient.
Manuel Thompson-Ọ́lọ́kọ̀
And would you say that that level of support and the amount of work you do with the different areas of the business have, a major impact on the retention of particularly younger apprentices?
Lesley Bamber
Yes, without doubt. I'll give you an example. We recruited some new apprentices. Oh, I'd say probably about three or four years ago into the pensions area. And we realised where the people were resigning and we realised the support wasn't there.
That's a very hard lesson. To learn, not just in terms of the impact on those individuals that left, but also in terms of actually, we need to sort this out and get this sorted for the future. And we have, and now that area is recruiting apprentices nine last year, 12 this year, which is a fair number, but everyone that's completed now, they've all got distinctions.
There's 10 that have completed. That's a big success rate. And the main factor was that support focus without a doubt.
Manuel Thompson-Ọ́lọ́kọ̀
That's, amazing. Coming to my diversity point, given all the lessons learned, what would you say to other employers or other young people who are sort of still considering what to do, be it going to university or starting an apprenticeship programme?
Lesley Bamber
You do your research without any doubt. For both, probably for employers and the individual, but for the individual, do your research, university isn't for everybody.
Apprenticeship might not be for everybody. So what we actually do within WTW is that we have a very unique. Clear education policy, if you like, in terms of making sure that we go out there, we talk to students at colleges and schools and universities and explain what it is that an apprenticeship is about, what obviously what WTW is about, and it's making sure people have got all the information to make the best informed decision for them for their future early career.
In terms of employers, you've got to decide what your strategy is, if you haven't got into apprenticeships yet, I'd say, well, you're missing a trick there. I would do wouldn't I? But if you haven't done, it's why? What's the .
The reason that you as an employer want to think about getting into apprenticeships and if you're going to say, say you're a levy payer, but if you're going to say what it's about using our levy, no, that's not the right reason. That might be a factor. It is not a reason. It's about where's your strategic workforce planning?
Where will these people be in terms of succession and progress within the organisation? And where's your skills gaps as well. I mean, that's what it's all about is upskilling the individuals so I could go on and on. But those are probably some of the key, areas.
Manuel Thompson-Ọ́lọ́kọ̀
I couldn't have said it better myself, Leslie.
What role would you say apprenticeships have played in your organisation's or currently plays in your organisation's diversity agenda?
Lesley Bamber
As I say, the financial services sector, it is lacking in diversity, but it's just the nature of the beast over the, last 200 years or whatever it's been around.
And it does tend to attract the same type of people. So your white middle class male, to be honest as well. That is changing. So one of the strategic reasons we got into apprenticeships was around, to change this. And the whole point about bringing people of whatever diversity that is, it's about bringing a different thought process.
So the WTWU's leadership decision to invest in apprenticeships that absolutely continues to underpin our organisational objectives to produce that qualified diverse talent pool.
Now, whether that's in terms of ethnicity, underrepresented social economic areas, women, gender, whatever it might be. That's absolutely what's key in, maintaining our diversity agenda and enhancing it.
Manuel Thompson-Ọ́lọ́kọ̀
I completely agree. And I'm, I quite liked the fact that you used qualified in that response, because I think, maybe for some individuals who might be listening they might sort of think, oh, here we go again with the diversity agenda.
And, you know, is it just another tick box exercise? But the fact is it's sort of been inclusive. If I, I suppose I probably should have led with inclusion rather than. Diversity in that.
You mentioned 2017 earlier about obviously with the whole apprenticeship reforms and everything else.
Now, you and I both know the apprenticeship landscape is ever changing. Constantly. There's always something new and something changing somewhere, somehow. How have you navigated this ever changing landscape to make sure, you've remained on top of said changes in order to keep your, programmes successful?
Lesley Bamber
It's like anything that the landscape is ever changing and it's about being proactive to what those changes are, but also in terms of looking to see what, what's next on the, agenda. So we've widened our attraction strategy without any doubt in last few years or so to make sure that we provide those opportunities to people that wouldn't necessarily consider a career within a corporate environment, within a professional services environment
The whole rationale of me doing this role. is around making a difference. And I've got some brilliant stories in terms of our apprentices that have come in and it made huge differences to that person individually within the private lives, but also within their career.
So we widened out to and reintroduced last year. a programme, an insight programme called Step Up. And that was about giving individuals an insight into what the corporate life is like, what the financial services sector is like, in educating them to make that choice that I've mentioned earlier.
So is this right for me? Is a corporate environment right for me? It's not right for everybody. Is an apprenticeship right for me? Again, it's not right for everybody, what I want to do this year is to change it even more in that we need to get to those underrepresented individuals that haven't got those role models, haven't got that support mechanism around them, whether that's family, school, university, whatever it might be, and actually don't hear about these insight programmes.
That will be a challenge. But that's what I want to do this year yes, we can attract students and some students, I've seen it on LinkedIn, go to a lot of different Insight events. That's all very well, but those aren't the students I fundamentally want to get to.
I want to get to those that have never been to an Insight event and actually the other thing is about giving them the tools and the information to walk away to say, Okay, I've got this, I've been to that Insight event, I've walked away with some skills, and some some new ways of perhaps thinking, and I can use that elsewhere, and I can use it in my future career.
That's what's important to me, that we make a difference to those individuals, even if they don't decide to join WTW, or don't decide to join the Apprenticeship programme, it's what's right for them, and helping them on their career journey, wherever that may be.
Manuel Thompson-Ọ́lọ́kọ̀
Music to my ears, Lesley, music to my ears. I'm sure we could do a whole other episode on, you know, the why and how, you know, you'd approach that.
So we'll park that there. I suppose what a lot of people would want to know, particularly employers is, how do we measure success of an apprenticeship programme? So, how would you describe what your North Star is?
Lesley Bamber
I'd start at the very beginning, I think, really, is that it's where you start, so some advice I'd give is before we get to measuring successes, start small, start with a pilot.
We did, we started with 20 apprentices in 2017. We double that number in that same year, but our target was, was 20. Now we're a large organization, an organisation might, might think about an SME might think about, well, we'll start with one or two so start small, that's a pilot, and then you can measure the success.
As you go through that apprenticeship journey with that individual and the managers, et cetera. So that's probably more straightforward to measure. When you're talking about a larger programme, we've got a lot of apprentices on programme. . . It's programme . prograeme It's being data driven.
We have to be data driven in terms of measuring that success alongside. The subjective areas. So what, so and so is telling me about an apprentice that's doing well within their role, et cetera.
But also in terms of when we mentioned about widening out for diversity, the stats that we've got over the last few years is that for a female point of view, when we started, it was about a third. Okay. No, 30 percent female, which is all right. It's all right. But actually it needs to be more than that.
We're at a sterling year in 2022, we went to 50 percent female and then in 23 it was 40%. It does depend on the dynamics of the apprenticeships you're recruiting into, because there are obviously, if you think about females for instance, there are a lot less female studying things like STEM subjects across the board than males.
So naturally you're going to attract more, males. So you've got to look at the context. Data is important, but you've got to look at the context of the, of the data. Now in terms of ethnicity, we've done a big focus on ethnicity and as I've mentioned, going to those outreach events, et cetera, and where it was like zero in 2017 and then the last couple of years, it's been like a third.
33 percent so that's a big increase and I'm looking to make sure that increases even further this year so the North Star ultimate success of the programme I think it's retention. I really, really do think it's retention.
Because certainly in the last few years, I've mentioned that the market conditions are difficult, that we do have a lot of poaching insurance. It's quite an incestuous industry. But actually we're still retaining the talent. So yeah, it's still above market average at 72%.
But we want to. Attract talent to be the best talent to WTW, irrespective of background. So it is about retaining talent, but it's about those long term succession plans. And as you know, we've received that external recognition. The Princess Royal Training Award and other recognitions, in the last year.
We've had a sterling year this last year, but
I've noticed on LinkedIn, it just keeps popping up.
We haven't, we haven't had a sterling year. I mean, obviously when you raise a bar, you've got to, you've got to maintain it, but again, you've got to look at the context of what was happening. And I would certainly say from an encouragement to other employers is, It takes a while to get to that stage because this is all about evidence.
When I mentioned data, a lot of awards are based on evidence and you've got to have the evidence. You've got to be able to measure the impact. So yeah, it can take you a few years to get to that stage. But to me, that one story of an apprentice making a difference to their lives. That's evidence, for me we see stories like that across the board. That for me is the actual ultimate North Star is that impact on those individual lives
Manuel Thompson-Ọ́lọ́kọ̀
Brilliant. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you, Lesley.
Lesley Bamber
Thank you very much for you as well.
Manuel Thompson-Ọ́lọ́kọ̀
Thank you.
Lesley Bamber
Thank you.
