Episode 71 - I'm Not Living The Beautiful Life I Could Be with Angie Wilson

I’m so grateful for my beautiful conversation with this week’s guest, Angie Wilson. Angie Wilson is a certified life coach specializing in helping women love their lives after divorce. With a master's degree in social work, Angie brings a rich background of experience to her coaching practice. She worked as a therapist and case manager for two years before dedicating 15 years to being a full-time homeschooling mom to her four amazing kids.

In this episode, we dive into our shared background of growing up in conservative, religious families and how this experience impacted our people pleasing tendencies and years of perfectionating. Most importantly, we talk about our journeys to the other side–when we stopped looking outside ourselves for answers and started tuning into our intuition, needs, and desires. Angie's journey, one through divorce, was the most challenging experience of her life. Emerging stronger and more authentic, she transformed into a confident, independent woman. 

Now, Angie is passionate about guiding other women through recovery after divorce, helping them heal, grow, and find joy and fulfillment. With her compassionate approach and personal insight, Angie empowers her clients to embrace their new beginnings with confidence and optimism, and she brings that same energy to our conversation.  I can’t wait for you to listen.
 

Find Angie here:
https://www.angiewilsoncoaching.com https://www.instagram.com/angie_wilson_coaching/

Find Sara here:
https://sarafisk.coach
https://www.instagram.com/sarafiskcoach/
https://www.facebook.com/SaraFiskCoaching/
https://www.youtube.com/@sarafiskcoaching1333
https://www.tiktok.com/@sarafiskcoach
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Transcript

Sara: 0:51

You are listening to the X Good Girl podcast, episode 71. One of my favorite things that happens as a result of this podcast is that I get messages from people who listen and they tell me how it is helping them. And one of those people is Angie Wilson. I just loved our exchange so much because she was telling me about how it had really helped her better understand. The reasons why she got divorced and I wanted to have that conversation in a format that you could learn from it as well. Here it is. Enjoy the interview with Angie Wilson. Every so often, something amazing happens and somebody who's been listening to the podcast reaches out and we start a conversation and that conversation is so good. I just want to bring it to the podcast so that everybody else can hear it as well. Because Angie, that's what happened with you. You've listened to the podcast before and you started sharing some of your experiences and I just felt like it was so valuable. So thank you for agreeing to be here.

Angie: 1:52

Thank you so much for inviting me. This is so fun because I do love your podcast. I'll listen to every episode and I recommend it to lots of my friends and clients. So it's really fun to be on today.

Sara: 2:02

Tell everyone who you are, what you do, and just what brings you to the podcast today.

Angie: 2:10

Yeah. Well, um, let's see. Well, I'm a certified life coach and I specialize in helping women who are divorced to love their lives again and rebuild their lives after divorce. Um, and you and I got certified at the same school, which is how I found you and knew about you, um, for years. I've been enjoying your teaching. Um, and, um, Previously, way back in the day, I was a therapist and case manager. I got my, um, master's in social work and then I stayed home for about 15 years with my kids full time and was a stay at home homeschooling mom. Um, and then about almost five years ago now I got divorced and so yeah, since then I've just been rediscovering who I am as a person, not just as a mom and a wife, and I've been building my coaching business and. Yeah, doing lots of other fun things too. I love, I teach fitness classes, which I love. It's kind of my, my release and my thing I do for myself, but also get paid for it, which is nice.

Sara: 3:07

That is really nice. And one of the things that we quickly put together is that we have very common experiences. We both come from conservative religious backgrounds. Mine was, uh, the LDS church and yours was a different denomination. We both homeschooled our kids. We both, and we both had a lot of, um, Expectations about how our religious life would play out and surprise, surprise, life doesn't always go to plan. Right.

Angie: 3:37

Exactly. Very, very true. Yes. I grew up church of Christ in the South. And so, and my, my grandfather was a preacher. So we were very all about church, you know, anytime the doors were open, we were there. And growing up, I just, you know, I guess received the message or the conditioning from my parents and my church that I should follow all the rules. And, you know, whether or not it's a combination, probably of my personality and of the environment I was raised in. I really clung on to that. And I really try. I mean, I can remember from a very young age of not wanting to disappoint. Especially my dad of wanting to do everything quote, right, never getting in trouble, you know? And so I think I just carried that through my entire life and just tried so hard to be the good girl, you know, and do everything perfectly and, you know, made the good grades, went to a good college. I played soccer my entire life. I played soccer in college. So I excelled at these things and it gave me just a sense of identity. And as I went to college, I, uh, my faith did shift a little bit where I was more evangelical. I got, I got involved in some, you know, campus ministries. And so that kind of led, I jokingly call it like Jesus was my boyfriend phase where I just felt like in love with Jesus, you know? And, uh, Um, that was really like my entire focus and, you know, looking back over all of that, like, I don't regret any of that. And obviously positive things came from that, but it was, it was a pretty narrow way of viewing the world or of viewing myself. And I don't know if you want me to go ahead and jump into my marriage story or not, but. Sure.

Sara: 5:24

Yeah. Whatever feels comfortable for you.

Angie: 5:26

Okay. Yeah. So basically I'm giving you a little bit of that backstory just to tell you that like, in college is when I was really fed the, the, I guess, instruction that marrying a quote, spiritual leader was the thing I should do. That is, that was the end. I'll be all if I wanted to get married, which I don't. Definitely did. I needed to marry a spiritual leader. And so that became my goal. And that became my one focus of finding a spouse. Like that was my main criteria, just that he was a spiritual leader that we were on the same page in our faith. And so, uh, and I read this book, it was a very popular book back in the day. I kissed dating goodbye, which interestingly enough, the author has now like, Rescinded or not. Maybe not rescinded, but you know, he definitely disagrees now with that perspective that he, but that was kind of the book everyone read and it was held up as the standard. This is the way you date. You're, you're very physically pure. Like, he went even so far to say, don't kiss your spouse until your wedding day. And so that was the mentality I had at the time when I met my now ex husband. Um, and so that's the way we dated and we approached it and we were really good friends and got along really well. And. We just really put, tried to put God at like the focus of our relationship. And so I, it's interesting because when I think back at that time, one of the things now that stands out about it is that I was always looking outside of myself for direction about what I should do, how I should think, how I should live, what decisions I should make. It was all external, either from. What I thought was God himself telling me or from like these religious leaders who were telling me. Um, and so I did not, I did not trust myself. I didn't look inside of myself. I didn't believe I had. Inner wisdom or knowing or my, even my gut instinct or my intuition, I was taught to like question myself because at my core I was sinful. So why would I listen to what I was thinking? You know, that had to be wrong. So, yeah, so that's just, that was my mentality. And so I chose to, you know, marry my ex husband based on that premise that we were exactly on the same page with our faith, that he was who, what I considered to be a spiritual leader. Um, and long story short, about four years into our marriage, his faith drastically changed and we were no longer aligned with our beliefs. And it was devastating. Like it was literally devastating. Um, I just thought this is not what I signed up for. This is not the person I thought I was marrying. Did God trick me? Because I thought God told me to marry this person. What is happening? Um, and probably for a year or so, I hoped it was a phase. And that he would change and it wasn't, it wasn't real. Maybe he would come back and, um, change his mind again, but that never happened. And so for about 12 years, I stayed in the space in my marriage thinking, this isn't what I want. This isn't the. You know, dynamic I wanted in my marriage or my family, but oh, well, like I'm in this now, I have no choice. Divorce is not an option. And, and even, even if divorce was an option, this is not a good enough reason, you know, for divorce is what I thought at the time. Um, so I just spent like literally 12 years of my marriage, just trying to be content, trying to make it work, telling myself it was good enough and really pushing down my own needs and desires. Because like I said, I'd been taught that if I cared what I wanted, that that was selfish and I didn't want to be selfish. I wanted to be a good wife and a good mom. And so I just focused on raising my kids and getting along with my. You know, X has been as as best I could and that was a long yeah, that was kind of a long, um, difficult space to be in where I was very unhappy deep down. But I almost I didn't even want to admit it to myself. Like, I think a lot of the times I didn't even let myself feel or express. What I was really feeling, you know, it's like, I didn't even allow it to surface. It was just deep under there. I just kept pushing it down almost like, Oh no, no, no. Anytime the thought came up that like, I was unhappy or that this isn't what I wanted or that I want it out or that I wish I could get out of this marriage. I just pushed it down because it didn't seem like an option.

Sara: 9:44

What? And Angie, I, I mean, you've heard, you know, me talk about my own story and background. It's almost identical, right? My husband decided to leave our faith as well. And I was devastated. And, and, um, what now, now that you are here and you can look back at that version of yourself, who got these little hints of like, I'm not happy. This isn't what I wanted. This isn't what I thought was going to happen. And that you would just push those down. What would have happened or what would it have meant? If you had been honest about, I'm not happy. This isn't what I want.

Angie: 10:26

Hmm. Wow. That's a great question. Are you saying like, what would it have been like for me if I had allowed myself? Yeah. Or what? Because I thought

Sara: 10:36

you hinted at it a little bit and I, it's just so funny cause I felt the same thing. Like, did God trick me? I thought God told me that he approved of this marriage. How could he approve of something knowing that it was going to go this direction? So I just, I wonder, would it have been a challenge to your faith in God? Would it have been a challenge to your trust in God? in God that you just weren't ready to face yet? Or would it have been something else?

Angie: 11:03

Yeah, yeah. Well, and actually, I did go through, I did go through that as well. And I went through my own personal shift in faith, because I did ask that question, like, either I had the wrong idea, and God didn't really tell me this. And that's not how he operates, you know, or God is some sick, twisted, you know, person who, you know, anyway, so, so I, I went through my own faith shift during that time where I really had to question my idea of how God operated or, what God really said. And I think during that time I did unravel some of that, what I would consider like Christian evangelical teaching about almost like God is your matchmaker. You know, it's like buying into this idea of like, if I follow these rules and these stuff, person, and then he will bless my marriage. And so I had to back up and think to myself. You know, I don't really think that's what God was saying. Like, I think that's what the religious leaders were saying. And so I had to learn to separate those out and I still do believe in God and have a faith and I have found a church that I love, but my faith is very different than it used to be. And so I kind of went through my own personal journey of deconstruction during that time as well. I met with a spiritual director who was extremely helpful and compassionate because I wasn't really allowed to ask questions. Especially in my church growing up, they just gave us all the answers and we believed them end of story. There wasn't a lot of discussion or questioning. And so during that time in my marriage, I did a lot of questioning myself, um, which was great. But I think if I had allowed myself to really be extremely honest with myself and with my ex husband, I think that would have either given us the chance to. See if we could change, I don't know, see if there was any marriage to salvage or I would have gotten a divorce much sooner. Like I think one of those things would have happened if I had been more honest with myself and with him about how I was really feeling. So I think that I do kind of question or wonder sometimes what would have happened if I had, if I'd had the tools or if I had been able to approach that differently than I did. Um, And no, you know, even having like the light, the coaching tools that we have now, like, well, how would it have been different if I, but that's, I mean, that's not a helpful question. It's,

Sara: 13:25

I don't, I don't think it is. And I think it's just, it's a, it's a normal place for the human brain to go. And it makes sense, but you had the tools you had, you had the paradigm you had. I know when I was in this very same dynamic. It's like, okay, that the, the way that I kind of made it make sense for a little while was that I was wrong, that I had misunderstood God, or that I was doing something wrong for this to be happening. And if you're listening to this podcast and you're like, I don't have a religious background, I don't, this doesn't make any sense to me. Think about the other systems that you're a part of that tell you, if you just follow these steps, you will have, This very particular positive outcome, because those kinds of systems are everywhere. Capitalism, if you just work hard enough and pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you can have the American dream too. And we know that that's not true for everybody, right? So religion is one of these systems that kind of tells you, listen, you don't need to do any thinking about this. The thinking has all been done for you by God. So you just need to follow. And if anything ever goes wrong, It's your fault. You're the one who has either misunderstood or you're doing it wrong. And that's how those systems, um, maintain influence over people. And I'm not anti religion. I am not, I, I am pro whatever works for you, as long as, You are awake to what are the outside influences that I'm believing and following. Do I like my reasons? And how is my how is my self connection? How is my trust in my own? intuitive wisdom and And as long as those two things are, are factors in how you're living your life, I, I just want people to do what is best for them. So you said that for a while in your marriage, you felt like I don't have a good enough reason to divorce. I hear that so much. And it's not even just divorce, but I don't like my boss is mean and he oversteps boundaries, but it's not really a good enough reason to quit or, you know, my mom is, um, verbally abusive, but it's not really a good enough reason to sever the relationship. Tell me a little bit more about what that felt like for you to kind of be in that stuck. Of like, it's not, I'm not happy and I don't like it. It's not what I want, but it's not a good enough reason.

Angie: 16:08

Yeah. I think feeling stuck is a really good way to describe it because, and I almost felt guilty that I wasn't more grateful, you know, like, Oh, I should just be grateful. That for example, we had moved into a nice neighborhood and a beautiful house that I didn't know, you know, that I didn't think 10 years ago we would ever live in that kind of thing where I thought, Oh, we're in this place in our lives and we have these wonderful kids and I get to stay home full time. It was like, I was always trying to convince myself that I should just be grateful for what I had instead of being unhappy about what I didn't have or what wasn't working. And so. Once again, I think it goes back to that selfishness where I had been taught it. If I wanted something that was wrong, I mean, almost like even in and of itself, if something was enjoyable or pleasurable for me, it was wrong. And so it was almost as if I'm supposed to be self sacrificing, like life should feel a little bit like a sacrifice. And so, Yeah, I just kind of convinced myself I did these little mental gymnastics to convince myself this is what was supposed to be happening or this was okay or this was just kind of life.

Sara: 17:16

Yeah, it's so interesting because the religious experience really lends itself. to there should there should be suffering right there should it should be hard to follow the commandments of God. You should have to give up parts of yourself that are sinful and selfish. I just really identify with like when you said life should feel like a sacrifice. I'm like Yeah. And you're praised and rewarded for moving forward in that sacrifice faithfully and faithfully for me. And I think for you too, was defined as staying in a marriage because it was these promises that you had made to do that. So tell me how you finally decided that it wasn't what you wanted to do.

Angie: 18:07

Yeah, well, everything really came to a head when we decided to go on a vacation with two other couples. Um, and it was the first time in about 10 years that we had left, even for a night, been away from our Children and gone on a trip by ourselves. And it was a tropical vacation. I love the beach. I was so excited. So excited about it. So looking forward to it. And there was this, I don't, I don't think we specifically talked about it, but there was this underlying current of like, Ooh, a romantic getaway. Like, maybe we can reconnect, maybe we can kind of rediscover each other and enjoy each other and have fun. And so we get on this vacation and. I personally had an amazing time. I felt more alive and just free and authentic and just as a unique human, like as a, just an individual person than I had in years because my life was consumed with being a mom, mainly being a mom, but just, you know, being a wife and a mom and just being a mom. My daily life, I was consumed with that. So on this vacation, I just felt so free and so alive, and I had so much fun, but not really with my ex husband. Like we, we wanted to do different activities. I was super active. I played hours of beach volleyball. I would go out in the kayak, and he just wanted to relax because he, he was, you know, tired and I mean. No, neither is right or wrong, but the point is, is we didn't really enjoy the same activities. And about halfway through the trip, my sister is one of the people, one of the couples that was on the trip. And about halfway through the trip, I had a conversation with my sister and I said, I think I want a divorce. Like, I don't think I can keep doing this forever. Like being here alone with him on this trip is making me realize my kids are going to grow up and leave. And then it's just going to be the two of us. And that sounds not. Enjoyable. That doesn't sound like what I want for my future. And it was literally like, it hit me out like a ton of bricks. Like it just felt so sudden. It almost came as a surprise, but then again, not a surprise. Cause I knew deep down I'd been unhappy for so many years, but I did not expect to just all of a sudden have that overwhelming feeling of like, I can't do this anymore, I want out. And so it was. I mean, as cliche as it sounds, I really did feel like I had like the, the wind knocked out of me or the rug pulled out from underneath me. And I just felt very like unsettled, like, Oh no, this is really what I want. And I, you know, it's like, I know I don't want to be in this marriage relationship, but I also don't want a divorce. Like I don't want my whole life to change, but I know I don't want to grow old with this person. And so I was just left with this very. Um, I had a very unsettled, terrified, I was terrified, I'm terrified feeling of what to do next. And I would love to say that, like, I calmly discussed this with my ex husband and we worked, you know, for months in therapy and both mutually came to the conclusion that this wasn't right for us, but that's not what happened. Um, what actually happened is like on the last day of the vacation, I ended up kissing a stranger. Who I thought I would never speak to or see again. It was a very impulsive, you know, obviously looking back, not a smart decision that I definitely regret. However, that is part of the story. Um, so when I kissed this other man, it. It opened up this whole, uh, realization of what I had been missing out on and just the, the excitement and the attraction. And I just, yeah, like it just made me realize like there's a lot I could be experiencing that I'm not experiencing currently. And. It just, I think that experience kind of catapulted, it definitely catapulted the divorce. And it's a whole long story of what happened after that with that stranger that I thought I would never speak to again, which I did speak to again and turned into the most horrible relationship of my life, but we'll save that story for another day. But, um, anyway, so about two weeks after we got back from the trip, well, actually. The first week I was an emotional wreck. I did not know what to do with myself. I didn't know whether I wanted to tell my ex husband what I was thinking or not. So I went to see our marriage counselor. We had already been going to marriage counseling before that. We went at least two different times in our marriage. Um, and so I went and went and spoke with her privately and I told her what I was feeling, what happened, um, that I didn't know what to do. How should I handle this? So she kind of helped me figure out what I wanted to say to him. And so it was about two weeks after our trip that we sat down and I said, listen, Here's what I'm, and I, I started explaining to him, like, I've been unhappy for this many years. We've tried therapy. We've done this. I've talked to you multiple times about these certain issues that I wish were different. You know, like we went through, I went through the whole spiel and he was doing his normal. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Just acting like. Like I've heard this before. It's not that big of a deal. And then when I got to the part where I was like, and I don't know if I can stay married, like, I really think I might want to divorce. Then he was like, what, you know, and just started freaking out and saying, we can't get a divorce. Like, what about our kids? And, um, and so from that point on, it was, you Um, I think it was about a, probably a year, um, or maybe a year and a half until we actually got the divorce. But so, yeah, so those months, you know, trying to decide, do we get a divorce? I knew all along. I knew 100 percent sure that I did not want to be with him for the rest of my life. And 1 thing that stands out to me that I just want to share, because I think this is something I've gone back to, and that I think could be beneficial for everyone listening to is that. I was conflicted during that time because I was still feeling a bit guilty, like, Oh, this, I don't have a quote, good enough reason to get a divorce. Do I really want to go through with this? What about the kids? Um, you know, all of that. And we were going to counseling during that time and trying to work things out. But in my moments, Where I felt very calm and very grounded and like in tune with myself. I knew that I wanted the divorce. It was only when I started fearing what might happen. What is my future going to look like? How am I going to make it on my own? What kind of job am I going to get? How are my kids? You know, it's like when I was worrying, that's when I was unsure. But when I was calm and grounded, then I knew I knew what was best for me and what I wanted. And so I can recall, I mean, I can even think of it right now. I can just recall that feeling of just Yeah. Being in alignment with myself is what it felt like, you know, so that was a powerful experience. Um, and I've never once regretted my decision to divorce him. Like I know it was right for me.

Sara: 24:43

There's a couple of things that you, you said that I just want to touch on. Um, first of all, when you are pushing your feelings down. They're going to come out sideways, right? And it might, it might be in kissing a stranger. It might just be in becoming passive aggressive and resentful, right? It might be in compensating with a lot of distraction or, uh, you know, shopping, eating, scrolling. It's, we're just not meant to live in a continuous state of disconnection without some consequences. And that's the the blessing and a curse right of of the human experiences is that your body will get tired of shoving down and not dealing with that and so it's going to come out in other ways. Begging to be noticed begging to be addressed begging to get the attention to we need to solve this stuckness and I know that so many people listening to this. From whatever background they come from can really identify with the terror of. Want to keep this relationship, but I don't know what to say about it. I don't know if it's fixable. I don't know, even if it were fixable, what I want to fix it. Do I actually like this person enough to want to build a new relationship with them, because I've mentioned before I've been married, you know, now 25 years, and we've had so many different variations of our marriage and it, and some of the, and in some of those variations, we didn't like each other. And we only stayed married because that's what our religious background told us to do. But then we were able to find a lot of love and reasons to stay together. And so it doesn't, my brain just lost that thought. But I, but I think what I was trying to say is it's not necessarily that you're going to break the relationship or get a divorce or end a relationship. There's also ways to remodel and rehabilitate and reinvent. Relationships as well, but you can only do that when you tell the truth. Um, about what's really happening.

Angie: 26:52

Yes, absolutely. I totally agree. And I have a good friend who went through a similar experience where she was very unhappy and spoke up and they changed the dynamic and they went to, you know, marriage therapy and they were able to create, like you said, a new relationship. So it's entirely possible. And I absolutely a hundred percent agree that when we push down our emotions and we push down our desires. And our needs, even I would go so far to call them needs for sure in the marriage relationship. I mean, I was not emotionally, physically, spiritually connected to my ex husband and that felt so lonely, so isolating. And one of the, uh, one of the most powerful things that one of a wise friend said to me when we were in that time period where we were trying to decide, you know, whether to get the divorce. One of my friends said, No one knows what one person lives with or without. And I just was like, oh, that's so true. Because I think, especially for divorce, we all have, I mean, there's kind of the broad societal agreements about what's a good enough reason, cheating, abuse. Addiction, you know, those are like the big, of course you can divorce someone if they're doing those things and those are things that we do to someone or someone does to us, but we don't really talk about what we're living without, you know, the lack of what you're getting and the lack of connection is hard to explain to other people because they don't live it. They're not in your relationship. They don't understand the day to day. Dynamic. And so that was something I really struggled with as well was because, you know, obviously being a people pleaser and a perfectionist, I wanted to appear a certain way to other people. So a big difficulty for me in deciding to get the divorce and getting the divorce was trying to explain to other people and make them understand and make them approve of my choice, which was not possible. And I lost a couple of really, really good friends who I'd known for 20 plus years who just dropped me like a hot potato, haven't spoken to them since that was extremely painful, but then I had other friends who worked, you know, worked with with me through that. They were, they were compassionate. They were understanding. They spoke up about things they didn't necessarily agree with or questioned, you know, but they were, we had honest conversations and now our friendships are so much stronger. Um, Um, yeah, so it's just interesting to notice and other, even other people's reactions to my divorce. I've had some friends say things like, wow, you are so strong. That was such a, an amazing, brave choice you made. And then I have other people that are like, ah, you should have tried harder. I mean, you know, everybody has their own opinion. It does. And it's the point where you only care about your own opinion. Like that's where you have to get. So it's

Sara: 29:31

so true, especially because so much of the programming that we grow up in is that we end up praising relationships for being like long instead of being good, instead of being satisfying. And we end up praising people who sacrifice and stick with a relationship that maybe isn't great. Because it's selfish to pull out of a relationship just because you feel like you're not getting what you want and need and that women are more valuable when they're married and commit inside, you know, relationships than when they are single and there's something wrong with them. And, um, so just, there's a lot of, of current that you're swimming against to try and really choose yourself and what you want. And I love that you mentioned like all of the explaining and trying to Get people to agree with your choice and it's so human and what you, your, um, experience just validates. You're just not going to, I mean, people pleasers, our ultimate goal is to please people, but you just, I mean, there were people who were pleased with you and people who weren't right. And it's just not ever in your control. I also love that you said that. You knew all along, like you really, and when you could lean into what you knew, it felt obvious to you that you did not want to be in the marriage any longer, but that when you were afraid of what it was going to be like, how you were going to provide for yourself. Now, I think those fears are valid. And women in divorce situations usually suffer disproportionately. They are not as prepared financially, especially, you know, in the position that you and I were in where we had stayed home with kids and not developed a career. So I just want to name that that fear is valid and real. And it also was pointing you in a very specific direction of ending your marriage.

Angie: 31:34

Mm hmm.

Sara: 31:36

Was it difficult to finally decide? Did it feel like it had gone on? You know, so long that you were just ready. Walk me through just how it, how it ended and how you finally were ready to let go.

Angie: 31:49

Well, that's interesting because my ex husband's the one who ended up filing for the divorce because I was so, I was in such a distraught emotional space. I was not, I mean, it was, I've had a really good life, so I had not been through, I mean, I mean, arguably many quote hard things in my life, but that year of my life was by far the most difficult, just emotionally. I was not functioning very well. I lost like 15 pounds. You know, I was having a hard time doing my daily tasks. I was crying constantly. Like I was just in a very emotionally bad place. I went on an antidepressant, which really helped highly recommend. Um, but so my point is, is that I was. I was really struggling and we were going to counseling and I think my ex husband just finally got to the point where he knew that's what I wanted. He knew I wanted the divorce. He, I offered to just stay and just be roommates and like co parent our kids if that's what he, you know, like I, yeah. And I mean, luckily he didn't want that because that would not have worked. Like at the time I thought, well, I could sacrifice even more and just say, I'll stay in this, you know, Partnership. But, you know, he didn't want that, which I was really glad, actually. But, um, anyway, so he's the one who filed. And then once that ball got rolling, everything just naturally, it was just like, just take the next step. You know, everything did fall into place. And I mean, like you said, I think the fears of how am I going to make it? What's my financial? Um, situation going to be like, what kind of job am I going to have? What's my relationship with my kids? What's that going to look like? I think all of those are very valid questions that you do need to ask yourself and think through. But I also think that things just have a way of working out sometimes when we cannot see. Um, we can only see the one step ahead and if you just do that, each step leads to the next. And I mean, honestly, like my life has turned out way better than I could have imagined. I mean, I am so happy with even just the logistics. I love my, my house. I love where I live. I love my friends. My relationship with my kids is amazing. Like, and I'm not trying to paint some unrealistic picture and say that, oh, every person who gets divorced has this great experience. But for me, that is what happened. And I am. I'm incredibly thankful and just so many of the things I was worried about did not happen. And I am, you know, financially stable now. I do love my new career that I found as a life coach. And so I just, I'm very relieved, you know, it's just, it, it, and it was, it was difficult. I won't say it was all easy. You know, I took a lot of risks. I had to put myself out there. I had to, I worked on myself to become a better version of myself and I like myself more than I ever have. I feel more. Confident, more independent, more sure of myself. I mean, just so many qualities that I've grown in that I am just so glad that going through that experience got me to this point, you know, and I, and it's interesting because I tried so hard for my whole life to be the perfect girl and do all the right things. And then, you know, deciding to get a divorce, getting a divorce, basically having an affair at the very end of my marriage, those two things were just like this huge blight on my perfect record of Of being a nice good girl, you know, and it was, it was so disappointing and I had to work through all these feelings of like guilt and shame. But at the end of the day, I feel like those were so good for me because now I am so much more humble. I feel like I'm so much more compassionate to other people's experiences because you do not know what you would do in a situation sometimes, you know,

Sara: 35:31

I mean,

Angie: 35:31

you just really don't. And so I feel like I'm a better person because I made You know, certain choices that may not have seemed like the right choice at the time, or that maybe some people still think are horrible or don't don't agree with. But for me, I can just look back at the journey of my life and say, I don't regret anything. And I'm where I am today because of all that happened, even during that horribly stressful time,

Sara: 35:56

it's just so interesting because other people, you know, myself included, I, I became, um, you know, in, in kind of my resentment and, and stress about not being in a happily, you know, You know, a happy marriage. I just became like really negative and critical, right? And nobody would, nobody would, would equate being negative and critical with having an affair because we somehow seem to think that that is like You know, they're, they're super morally different, but I was miserable and spreading the misery inside of my marriage and inside of my family because I didn't know, like, that's how it came out sideways. And so I get that in this, you know, in kind of the way we grow up that we have. This dynamic about what's more moral and what's worse and what's better and that an affair is bad, but what I hope if you're listening to this and identifying what I hope that you will take away is that we just can't lie to ourselves forever without the cost becoming higher and higher and higher. And when you get a taste of a beautiful life that you could be living that you're not. That's when, that's when the truth really comes out. And so I just, I really appreciate your, your honesty and your willingness to share that story, Angie, because all of us deserve to live a beautiful life that is satisfying, that is fulfilling, where we can show up and our needs and wants are honored in balance with everyone else's. I just think so many women are not. Not living that.

Angie: 37:37

Yeah, I definitely agree. And I mean, I think that first step, like we've both said, I mean, if you're in a marriage, if you can relate to my story and you're in that type of situation, your marriage, being honest and speaking up, it's not going to necessarily lead to divorce, you know, but for something to change, I think for you to have a more. Fulfilling relationship for you to be for you to feel more like a complete whole person. I think it has to start with you being honest with yourself and with whoever else you need to be honest with in the, you know, in the situation. But I just want to encourage people in that situation to focus on developing a relationship with themselves. You know, just get to know yourself, get to know what you enjoy, what you, what you like to do. I mean, I know that sounds so simple, but I just think that's such a good place to start. Because when you, when you can connect with yourself, I think only good things can, can come from that.

Sara: 38:36

Absolutely. We are so disconnected from ourselves and with good reason. Like when you have a bunch of commandments to pay attention to and make sure you're not breaking. And when you're trying to please God and trying to make sure that all of your religious, you know, I's are dotted and T's are crossed. I don't know if that makes sense, but. Just there's a lot that women are given to pay attention to the list of everything that makes them good. And so of course you're not paying a lot of attention to who you are and what you want because nobody ever teaches us to do that. So I love that you talked first, you talked first about, you know, being honest and telling the truth and then developing a relationship with yourself. Because I feel like from that self connected relationship comes the security that you need to be able to make the hard decisions about the relationship to either continue it or to modify it because it's work either way, it's work to end a relationship, it's work to remodel a relationship. But the security that you have from your self connection is that no matter what, I'm gonna take care of me no matter what. I am gonna have my own back. I'm gonna show up for me. No matter what problem comes up, I'm going to solve it and stick with it until I get a solution. And so your trust becomes not in your trust shifts and the focus shifts from. Seeking the outside validation that I'm doing it right and that I'm safe because everybody agrees with me to I am safe because I agree with me. And because I am taking care of me and I have my own back.

Angie: 40:19

That is so, so good. Oh my goodness. That just makes me feel like, Oh, I don't even know what, I don't even know what emotion that is. That was just so powerful and so well said. I 100 percent agree. And I think that was part of the pain as well of being in that situation was not even, was I not connected to my ex husband and that was, you know, unfulfilling, but I wasn't connected to myself. Yes. Yes. I didn't trust myself. I didn't feel like I was showing up for myself.

Sara: 40:44

Yeah, that, that, if I could talk, you know, about people pleasing in the way that I really see it, it's really just self abandonment over and over and over and over and over again. And so, of course, when you're rewarded for abandoning yourself, And giving and serving and focusing on things outside of you, of course, you're just not going to have that connection. And so what I'm so grateful about for our conversation today is that I think you've given a couple of really important things to focus on. Number one. If you notice that there is a beautiful life that you're not living, that's a clue, right? If you notice that you are experiencing a sense of stuckness in your relationship, where there are things that are wrong, but you don't know how to speak up about them, or if telling the truth is not possible, that's a clue. If you find yourself Telling yourself, you know, I should just be grateful. I should just focus on what's working. I should just, um, you know, not pay attention to these other painful parts. That's a clue. If you're lonely inside of your relationship, that's a clue. And so I'm just really grateful that you were willing to share your story so that the rest of us can identify like where we might. need to tell the truth, where we might want to improve our self connection so that we have more security to be able to go and search out and live that beautiful life.

Angie: 42:17

Yes, you're so welcome. Thank you for having me. I just, I'm really thankful I was able to share this and yeah, I'm just really, really glad that we were able to have this conversation.

Sara: 42:28

Is there, is there anything that you wanted to say that you weren't able to? Any last words?

Angie: 42:35

Yeah, just to piggyback off of what you just said, I just also want to encourage everyone to believe that you can have that type of beautiful life. I think what holds us back sometimes is we don't think it's possible, whether or not it means you stay in a relationship or leave a relationship. You can create a life that you love living, that feels full and enjoyable and fulfilling and connected. To other people and yourself. I think it's 100 percent entirely entirely possible for us. And so I just want to encourage y'all to believe you can have it.

Sara: 43:08

If anyone is curious about the kind of coaching that you do or interested in talking with you about your, you know, your story and their situation, where can they find you?

Angie: 43:18

Yes. So my website is Angie Wilson coaching. com. Um, and I'm on Instagram at Angie Wilson coaching. And I'm starting a podcast soon. Don't know the exact release date yet, but it's going to be called love your life after divorce.

Sara: 43:36

So important. There's so, I mean, I have, I have a couple of really dear people in my life divorcing right now. And sometimes it's hard to, to see that there's a life you will love after that. So I'm really glad that you're, you're doing that work. Angie, thank you so much for today.

Angie: 43:53

You're welcome, Sarah. Thanks for having me.