E34: Running Beyond Limits - Fiona Oakes and the Power of Compassion

Join us for a captivating conversation with the extraordinary Fiona Oakes, four-time world record holder in marathon running. Fiona's tale isn't just one of athletic prowess; it's a narrative intertwined with her passion for animal advocacy, veganism, and unwavering discipline. With her incredible achievements in the Marathon des Sables, often considered the world's toughest footrace, to her work at Tower Hill Stables animal sanctuary, Fiona's journey is a testament to endurance and compassion.

Listen as Fiona defies all odds, overcoming a knee injury to transform from a non-runner to an inspirational animal advocate. She shares her experiences participating in some of the most extreme marathons on the globe, including those in Antarctica and the North Pole. Fiona's determination not only in her sport, but in her work at the animal sanctuary and her advocacy for veganism will leave you feeling energised.

As we journey into the heart of Fiona's life, we delve into how her commitment to veganism has shaped her understanding of global health, wealth distribution, and environmental effects. This episode is a study in resilience and dedication, demonstrating how Fiona’s compassion for animals drives her to push her limits and inspire others. Tune in for an episode brimming with stories of extreme running, moments of gratitude, and an unwavering commitment to a cause.

https://www.towerhillstables.org/
https://www.fionaoakesfoundation.co.uk/
https://www.veganrunners.org.uk/
https://runningforgoodfilm.com/

https://www.facebook.com/towerhillstables
https://www.instagram.com/oakes.fiona/
https://www.instagram.com/towerhillstables/

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

So I'd like to say a very big welcome to Fiona Oaks. Hello, fiona.

Speaker 2: 0:04

Hello, welcome and lovely to be with you.

Speaker 1: 0:07

Oh, thank you very much for joining us. It was something that I'd seen the Running for Good again because I'd seen it the first time around. And then it was on Water Bear, which I quite like Water Bear because some of their environmental videos, really good productions and I thought, do you know what? I'm just going to send a message? Just going to send a little Instagram message and thankfully Percy picked it up. So how's Percy? There he is, so Percy's been all over the world with you everywhere.

Speaker 2: 0:33

Absolutely everywhere with me, never leaves my side, apart from when there's any work to do or any training, All the adventures which do the training. It's got a body double for that.

Speaker 1: 0:42

Cool. Would you like to give yourself a brief introduction, or should I, because I know you're quite humble about what you do?

Speaker 2: 0:49

You can, you can do it.

Speaker 1: 0:51

Well, just saying, before we started and when I walked into the studio said, have you got all your bits for this? I've got four pages of notes and I started writing them backwards because there's so much I wanted to talk about. Fiona, you were the star of. The film was made about your Running for Good. Which documents you running Marathon de Sabre? Which time was that? Because you've done it a couple of times 2017.

Speaker 1: 1:15

Yeah, 2017. And that's the toughest it's supposed to be the toughest foot race in the world, but along the way, you've also four world records. The standout world record for me is the fastest female in fancy dress when you were dressed as a cow to complete a half marathon. That was it, yeah, and that was what. 135?, was it 135?

Speaker 2: 1:35

minutes.

Speaker 1: 1:35

Something like that 132. I think, yeah, something like that I can't really remember.

Speaker 2: 1:39

to be honest, it was just something that I did because I got we were moving up here to the farm and it took a long time to kind of coordinate and I just wanted to do I'm getting frustrated and I just wanted to do an event and I just thought, oh, the half marathon in dresses, a cow would be a good one yeah, pants are my best.

Speaker 2: 1:59

Yeah, it was a. I remember we went to Norway to do it because I had to find a marathon half marathon at a relatively tricky time of year, in June and there aren't many. And I just said to my mum I'll be fine in this suit so long as it's not raining and windy and when we arrive in Tromsø I've never seen weather like it. I have never, and it was out and back around the airfield.

Speaker 2: 2:21

It was absolutely got blown away in my cow out, for it was absolutely and it was wet through and it was heavy and oh you know, and it was at night as well, so it was like it was pretty awful, but yeah, I did it.

Speaker 1: 2:32

Yeah, I did it. I did a half marathon back in 2000, when I was no, 2002, when I was really fit, and I came in at nearly 140. So one, you know one and a half hours of dick kills, dressed as a pantomime cow brilliant, so yeah. But you also run your stables, which is a animal sanctuary Tower Hill stables, where you've got quite a number of animals there.

Speaker 2: 2:55

Yeah, yeah, I've got a lot of animals here. I've got a lot of horses, cows, pigs, sheep, goats, chickens, geese, just about anything that you know needs a home, needs a forever home, needs a place of peace and dignity and a life where there'll be love. Yeah, I'll try and help if I can.

Speaker 1: 3:11

It's one of them, where we've been running podcasts for quite a while and it's just starting to think you know, oh, can we ask on and who's who do we think is going to give the time up. And the reason that I did send your message is because of the idea of your mindset that you mentioned while running through the desert was any time that you felt in pain or struggling, you thought about the animals and it's that compassion that I just thought, well, I need to. I need to ask you because if you can only say no, but the compassion for the animals is driving you on to do that and I just think that's quite inspiring, which obviously other people could use that themselves, if they're inspired by something to actually get out and work on their physical health and then their mental health.

Speaker 2: 3:48

I mean, to me it's just using what you've got to be able to help others. So when I started the sanctuary back in 1996, I didn't start it as a sanctuary in terms of something commercial. It was purely a place where I could take the animals that I'd already rescued and they would be safe, because one of the horses had had an accident under the so-called care of someone else and I just wanted them out, away from other people where I could look after them, and the running grew from that. As I say, in 1996 I'm at the sanctuary, I've fulfilled my dream in terms of being able to care for animals on my own terms in my own premises. But after a while I kind of got itchy feet in terms of there's got to be more I can do.

Speaker 2: 4:35

The first thing that I did actually was, bizarrely enough, was join the fire brigade. Don't ask, don't ask. I was literally. I came from a cycling background. When I moved to the sanctuary I didn't have time for cycling. You know it was quite not. It was expensive in terms of the time you needed to commit to it and physically buying the equipment, and I didn't have that sort of money at all, and my money goes to the animals. So I thought about jogging just to keep fit. And one day when I was out jogging, somebody pulled up next to me and said oh you, you look fit. Have you thought about joining the fire brigade? And I saw no, no, that's not the first thing I do think of in a morning when I wake up after I've done the mucking out, or whatever.

Speaker 2: 5:20

Yeah, literally press ganged into the fire brigade and I love it. I love it and, but it was. You know, it is a big commitment, being it's a retained fire crew, so you're actually not at the fire station when there isn't an incident and I realized it was going to be a big commitment. But it also gave me an opportunity to introduce to an audience that had probably never, never, really been aware of veganism, the thought of doing something very, very physical whilst being plant-based. Because obviously you know, back in sort of the early noughties, that 2001 the fire brigade was very much a male province. It's still is to a certain extent, but certainly not for females and vegan females. So, you know, it brought to a wider audience my veganism.

Speaker 2: 6:11

And after that, a couple of years later, I thought, you know, I wonder if I can take the run in a bit further, I wonder if I can, you know, compete in and complete a marathon. And the reason I picked marathon running, which was probably not the best thing for me, having this injury and been told that I would never walk properly, let alone run the only reason I it was marathon running was Paula Radcliffe. She was doing really, really well in the marathon and the marathon was the hot ticket. That was the event. You know people were saying it's the toughest event in the athletics calendar. You've got to be mentally and physically very, very strong for this event. It's brutal. The training is like almost incomprehensible. The event is just kind of monumental in distance and stamina and I just thought if I can compete in a marathon and hopefully complete it, it proves definitively that as a plant-based or what do you want to call plant-based or vegan person, you can do anything. It's not prohibitive to excelling in extreme endurance events and that's why I took to marathon running.

Speaker 2: 7:15

That's I don't consider myself this day. I've run 238 in a marathon. I've run some. I've won a lot of races I've done. I still don't consider myself as to be a runner and that is hand on heart. I consider myself to be an advocate for animals, using athletics for my advocacy. That's all it is.

Speaker 2: 7:35

And you know I have been on the start lines. You know, when I was doing the road marathon running very, very seriously, I would get invited to events like Amsterdam. Joss Herman's contacted me come to the Amsterdam marathon run next to Heile Gabrile Salasse. We'll pay your expenses. You know you'll be on the elite start and that was the way of showcasing this word to a wider audience. Vegan, you know, I couldn't go around the start line of 50 000 people at Berlin and say, oh, I'm vegan, I'm vegan, I'm vegan. But when you're walking into the elite enclosure with Heile, gabrile Salasse and the elite runners and you're going to the front of the start grid on the journey and there's 50 000 runners behind you, people see that word and they associate it subliminally with being the best, being strong, being fit. That's the only reason that I run. That's, that's all it's about for me.

Speaker 1: 8:26

If you don't mind, can we go back to your younger years, because you're quite, you were fit at school, sporty at school, and then you developed. This is just a you know, just an idea of the how big these achievements are, although I know that you're not going to say they are, because everything I've listened to and watched it's like I'm not a runner. I'm not really a runner, but so you developed a problem with your knee.

Speaker 2: 8:49

Yeah, I developed a problem with. It was both my knees and between both my knees. I had 17 operations and in the end they said look, your kneecap's crumbled your joints. Not good, you need this kneecap removing. And I had the kneecap removed and they told me then it would seriously inhibit your ability to walk properly, to build strength in that leg. And definitely no, no running. That's when I took the cycling, because it's no impact exercise it's the impact.

Speaker 2: 9:13

That's the problem to me and things like still to this day I can't really run downhill, I can't unleash my legs downhill because I don't trust this right knee. And you know, the funny thing is that when Keegan contacted me to make the film running, for good.

Speaker 2: 9:31

I just thought it was a joke. I actually thought it was a wind-up. He wrote and said you know, I've made you know um caspiracy and what the hell. They've been kind of controversial things, a lot of negativity in them in terms of you know the atrocities that go on to animals and I want to make something positive now. And I said, well, why why contact me? And he said, well, I want to make the film about you. And I'm thinking, why, why would anyone want to make film about me? This is completely, unutterly bizarre. So anyway, you kept sending various cuts of the film through. I wasn't happy with them and I'm not being funny, but who is going to be happy with seeing themselves on screen? Certainly not me. So I just kept saying, okay, okay, that's fine, that's fine, I'm sure it's fine. I trust you, keegan, you're brilliant.

Speaker 2: 10:13

We spent time in the desert together. You know, got really, really close. I was going out to Los Angeles anyway for a big conference and he said let's do the premiere of the film with which role in Hollywood. I thought, oh blimey, this is getting a bit heavy for me. So we went to the cinema and it's packed out. It is not packed out with people trying to see the film. I can honestly say that it's packed out with people wanting to meet Rich Rowe, who was there, you know, because he'd been a narrator. So anyway, I'm skulking around at the back of the kind of the auditorium and I'd planned the older. Ooh, I've dropped something and an hour later I found it and I've not got to actually watch this film.

Speaker 2: 10:48

So Rich comes over to me and I said, oh, you know, it's a fantastic film. You must be really, really proud and pleased. And I just looked at him and said, oh, I don't know, I haven't seen it yet. And he looked at me and said you haven't seen films. I said, no, I haven't seen it. And he kind of dragged me by my head and said, right, you're going to sit down next to me and you're going to watch this film. And I thought, oh, my Lord, this is, this is worse than my worst nightmare. And I thought, never mind, I cannot possibly look that bad. Now, think about it. You're in the desert, you've got all the kit on. You can't be this horrible.

Speaker 2: 11:19

And then I saw a scene of me like limping across the desert, like you know, and I thought, oh, I look like some sort of bizarre Quasimodo figure just desperately struggling along. And that's how I know I look and when I run I. Somebody actually once said to me in an event. It said I wasn't sure if it was you, fiona, but when I focused I could see you were limping. So I knew it was you and I thought thank you. But my style is very kind of improvised. It gets me from A to B as efficiently as I can possibly be. But I'm no stylistic runner and I certainly possess no talent for running. But I have. If I've got any sort of a talent, it's because I do stick in. I do know how to hurt myself, to get the best out of myself, but I'm certainly not a talented runner. I've got my feet firmly on the ground, I do not have my head in the clouds.

Speaker 1: 12:09

I think there's yeah, I think there's one or two people that might sort of disagree with that about you've not been a, not being a talented runner. I can't get me. I'm trying to get me head round the mindset of you know, from all these operations and I've heard you say before that you had your full plaster how do you get from that stage to actually run it? I can't get me head round the mechanics of all the knee works with with no knee.

Speaker 2: 12:30

Well, the funny thing is I will say this a couple of things I've got a very pronounced muscular kind of upper body and people think, oh, you must do a lot of gym work for your own only kind of thinking. After years I want to say yeah, yeah, I'm really into gym. And obviously it wants to say never, never lifted weight in my life, kind of thing. But I have spent in my formative years I was weeks and weeks and months and months non weight bearing on crutches and that really did, might build my upper body. I mean, I was literally go away six weeks in plaster, various arthroscopies, lateral release, all sorts of things go away non weight bearing. Come back six weeks. We'll see if it's done any good, how it actually gets to running. Funny thing was I don't know how it came up I think I did develop a little bit of problem with my right knee, the bad knee, and I was wondering whether to stop running, if I was going to make it worse or if I should see some sports doctor or something. I did go to see a sports doctor and he actually said you know, I'd like to give you a free scan and I'd like to see what the doctor has done to your knee that you can actually, because I can't believe you can actually do what you can do.

Speaker 2: 13:41

Your style on the treadmill put me on a treadmill to run. It's not ideal, I don't know how the biomechanics work. I never really think about it. I know that in a road marathon particularly, I used to stick to the road running because it was the kind of just flat roads, relatively kind of uncontroversial running surfaces that I thought were best for me. But after about 20 miles in a road marathon it really does start to hurt. But I know it's going to stop running. So you know, but you just mind over matter, you've just got to get through it. I just, you know, get through it the best way I can. But downhills are not good for me. So I have this bizarre technique I can run pretty quick on the flat, I can run uphill, and then when it comes to a downhill it's like no, I'm kind of walking or gingerly, kind of picking my way down. But you know, I work with what I've got, I just do the best I can.

Speaker 1: 14:36

I mean, I've run two marathons in my life, one recently, one recently, yeah, and I think everything hurts when I run a marathon and the last one, the Leeds marathon. In fact, since the marathon, I managed to spray in three ankles and do me back my daughter. My daughter would like to have you spray in three ankles. Well, one recovered and then I spray in it again. But so the you know what it's a long way.

Speaker 2: 15:00

I mean you know they do say when you train him for a marathon, you train your long run. The first 20 miles you're training, Forget them. You train in those last two or three or four or five miles is the only benefit you're going to get for the actual marathon training. Marathon starts at 20 miles. You know it's and that's when the real pain kicks in. And you know when I've, when I've gone to big events and I've had some magical moments.

Speaker 2: 15:24

Events I mean particularly the time that I've been able to spend my one of my great heroes, hallie Gabberselassie, really did kind of meant to me. He took me under his wing at the Great Knolls, ron, when I did that and I placed in in in that I really did. You know he always said he used to say train for the last 10 K, forget the first 30 odd. And it is the way. And you just I remember setting off in Amsterdam and thinking please don't let me have gone too quickly. You know, because obviously it's one thing to start at like 10 mile an hour, but you're open to finish at 10 miles an hour as well.

Speaker 2: 15:59

You can lose more in a marathon than you can ever gain. That's what I always try to tell people when I give them advice don't start too quick because you can lose more. I had a friend in, was doing London with him and he was open for a sub 230, very, very good club runner and he blew up in the on birdcage walk. He blew up and he didn't make sub 240, you know, and he was on pace for a sub. You know he can. That wall can just hit you.

Speaker 2: 16:25

You've just got nowhere to go, but it's judging it. You want to finish with nothing left but you don't want to overdo it. So it's kind of just a mathematical juggling act. And I, you know, when I've run marathons I've always focused on training. 100 mile a week, every week, got me done and then a good taper, put the miles in. It's like putting money in the bank and going with Roy on the day. If you get a bit of luck on your side, you're not injured, you're not ill and you get decent weather. The equation is there If you've done the training, you know what you can do.

Speaker 2: 16:58

I do all the light yasoo, the one mile pushers, the 24 hundreds. If you know that you've hit those targets in your training pretty much on the day. If you get a clear pass, you'll run the time you want to run. And that's why I kind of, when I started Marathon morning, I thought, okay, I can get around the distance. How do I get quicker? And rather than stand starting in this cage, I want to be at the front. I want to be with those guys over there. I want to be with the Africans and the Kenyans. How do I get in with them when the real, real tough work started. That's not just about going and being fit and running a lot. That's about putting the speed sessions in, really really punishing yourself Weak in weak out.

Speaker 1: 17:38

This is what I'm interested in really Well, and obviously the compassion for the animals. Is that mental mindset that makes you get up, do your work, then go out and do this 100 miles a week to prepare for all these marathons and events you've done and excel at them. How do we get as head?

Speaker 3: 17:55

into that? I don't know. I was thinking about that as well after I've watched your film. Question for you have you been vegan all your life, or is this something that you've taken up recently?

Speaker 2: 18:06

I've been vegan since I was six.

Speaker 3: 18:07

Since you're six. Because you haven't eaten that meat, it's been pumped with steroids and all sorts. Maybe it's given you a stronger mind and a stronger body to go through these really hard things.

Speaker 1: 18:19

Do you know what I'm going to be? I'm quite shocked. I thought that by me asking them questions. But yeah, please answer that, fiona. What do you think?

Speaker 2: 18:26

Yeah, I mean, actually you learn a lot. I mean, you know, during when we've had these lockdowns, I, rather than a lot of people, have turned to social media and it's got controversial and confrontational. I've kind of backed away and kind of used it for contemplation, thinking about why I've done things. And I do a lot of running. That's my thinking time and it did connect with me because I've gone so full steam ahead in everything I've done.

Speaker 2: 18:50

When I say I went vegan at six years old, I wasn't some sort of precocious child that was, like you know, mega developed academically and said hey, mummy, I want to be vegan now. No, no, no. I didn't understand the word. I just realized I didn't want to eat animals. I didn't know what a vegan was. I understood the principle of not harming animals, that's, that's, that's all it was. We were lucky in that my mum had a mentor, an adult mentor, who was vegan and could kind of articulate to her in adult terms what I was thinking and feeling as a child.

Speaker 2: 19:20

I've noticed that a lot of the Snoke players, you know, turn to veganism because they say that then it's not just physically they feel better, but mentally, they feel more focused, and I have always been extremely focused on what I'm going to do. That's what I'm not. I honestly I'm not. I want to give inspiration to people who are going to be far better runners than me, far better than me. And I am not talented in a physical way. I am not talented as a runner, but mentally I can focus and say, if that's the job that needs doing, I will do it, or I will drop down trying. If you ask me to swim with Everest, I'll say how long have I got Give me and I'll try. I will try and do it. I think for me I operate well on discipline and I don't mean shouting at myself all the time.

Speaker 2: 20:13

I like a routine. You've got to have a good, solid routine to run sub three, sub two, 50, sub two, 40. You've got to have that base in your training because you need structuring that. You've got to run, for me personally, three speed sessions a week of different distances. You can't run them back to back. So there's only seven days in a week and if you're going to take a day off, you've got to do a my alternate days. So it was always about the structure. If you miss one, the whole thing crumbles for me. So it only as good as my present and last training session, and I'm always thinking about the next one and I'm just very focused.

Speaker 2: 20:49

I know I've got to get the job done because I want the end result. I don't want to waste my time doing something that's not productive, particularly for the animals. If I think that I'm failing or I'm becoming stale or I can't do it or I'm not achieving what I hope to achieve, I'm going to look to do something different. That's why I kind of moved away from the road running and I moved into. Kind of well, I was one time I was just running two marathons a year.

Speaker 2: 21:15

In fact I told Hallie Gabri-Slasi that and he could not simply believe that I was doing what I was doing, just literally two marathons a year, no 10Ks, no nothing. I could have mopped up every probably local race that I ever I was invited to one or two for various reasons, because people wanted me there and I was sponsoring the animals or whatever always used to win halves and 10Ks without even a thought. But I didn't want that. I didn't want I don't even know if it was a focused idea or just subliminally I wanted to be able to lay the facts down and say I placed eighth in the Amsterdam Marathon.

Speaker 2: 21:55

I've been top 20 in London. I've won my age group and placed 15th in Berlin. Sound bites, not. I won the Nautley Park 10K. It doesn't have the same impact and I was looking for big results that would make people go. Oh, you know, that is a shock. You've done what in London or you've done this day, yeah, but I've always. I'm just. I'm just focused. I'm mentally strong in terms of what I need to do, to get where I need to be, to do it honestly and to get the best out of myself.

Speaker 1: 22:26

Yeah, I think one incident when you were going through that to Canada and you did your roll your knee oh yeah, I mean, that was just pure help, but then you had a marathon five days later.

Speaker 2: 22:35

Yeah, I mean I was doing the world record challenge. I mean, basically it wasn't my sort of thing. I've got loads and loads of like big city marathon results as best and fastest I could ever run. I would like to say to people, when you talk about as best and fastest you could run, I always made the equation to run your best time in a marathon, your best time in a marathon, you need to be on a quick course. Yeah, to be on a quick course, you've got to be in a big city marathon. To run your best time in a big city marathon, you've got to have open road. To have open road in a big city marathon, you've got be at the front of the race. You see what I mean? Yeah, so it's all. You know what I mean. So so after I kind of thought, right, that's about as quick as I can do and I can't do anymore, then I drop down a tier, I'll go round and I'll win marathons. I'll break smaller marathons, course records. See if that promotes veganism.

Speaker 2: 23:28

It kind of promoted the sanctuary people wanted to talk about. You know the need. They want to talk about the firefighting. They want to talk about all things, not necessarily about the plant-based diet, and this is back in 2007 8, 9, 10, 11. So then I chucked over and I thought right, somebody suggested to me Just do the foot, toughest foot race on the planet, fiona, do it. And then you've proved your point.

Speaker 2: 23:47

Then it came to Marathon Disable, which is an ultra endurance, self-sufficient, see kind of kind of flagellation of your body and your mind did that, and the sad thing was when I first did it in 2012, the week before the race, I fractured two toes. I'm a rightful. So I'd now got to go out and do the toughest foot race on the planet with two fractured toes. But hey, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna see what I can do. So I did it, you know, and I didn't do too badly in it, but it really hurt. I mean, I could see the bone sticking out my little toe by the end of the race and that was like it was. It was, it was. It was a pain fest, let's put it. It was not. Somebody described it as an orgy of pain and it was. I'd affected a rescue of Another competitor during that race who would sadly had to pull out, and they offered me a place in the 2013 race.

Speaker 2: 24:36

But in the meantime, the same friend and I use that term loosely because I'm not sure, paul he said look, you've done it, just do the polar marathons. You know, the North Pole, the Antarctic, what do you want for you? And I was kind of thinking, yay, that's a really good idea, paul, and I looked into it, but the cost was very prohibitive to do the North Pole race so I backed away from it and then I got offered a place in the race so I went off and I did the North Pole race and I broke the record. Then I thought you know, this is great and a lot of the I don't. I don't think about running when I'm not running. I'm not one of those levy breathe running. You know I literally I am the person that is running around the house looking for anything that resembles a pair of socks just before I'm going Training. The gear goes on. All my stuff I buy from charity shops and you know to run in. Apart from, you know, we're vegan, run a stuff. So I'm not like heavily focused on running when I'm not sim doing the running. But a lot of the guys out in an old pole said you know, fiona, you've got to do the world record attempt, you've got to just do a marathon on every continent and Antarctica before November, and then you'll get the world record to be the fastest woman to run a Marathon on every continent. And I thought, yeah, that's great. And I came home in April with these rose tinted spectacles on and this you know, heading the cloud thing that I'm gonna go off and do this. And then I realized that it's just ridiculous. I can't do it. We can't afford it. I'm just never gonna do that.

Speaker 2: 26:00

The idea was on a back burner in my mind and I was getting more and more frustrated. I wanted to promote veganism so badly. I just wanted to help the animals. I just wanted to make people see. I didn't want to shout and rant and rave. I just wanted to say, look, I can do this on plants. You can too. Please don't harm animals.

Speaker 2: 26:16

It got to about August and I hadn't made any headway with doing this. And then the mum just said to me one day, about now, in about 2013. What's the matter? And I said I just feel I'm turning my back on a world record, some potential for the animals, and she said, look, if you need to do it, me and your dad, all we've got left now is the house, but it'll have to be remortgaged, and you'll have to do it because she knows how desperate I am. I just want to be able to help animals in the short period of life that I've got on this earth.

Speaker 2: 26:48

I thought it was gonna be simply telling Guinness that I've done these marathons, and it wasn't. It wasn't like that at all. It's quite a formal procedure to get them validated. And they said look, you need to run as running with you at all times to record the fact that it's you doing all the running. And I'm like well, I can't do that. They said well, you'll need to get a photograph of yourself at every mile point In. I said we can't do that either. They said well, you'll have to go off and place in them or win them, and then the race will do all that for you. So now I'm challenged with going off to do a marathon every other week on a continent and I've got a win them or Placing them or whatever, and I thought this is getting worse by the minute. But anyway, I did it.

Speaker 2: 27:30

I did exactly what they asked me to in all these races and in fact, I had a funny story. People were probably have heard this before, but I had to go to Australia. Obviously it's got the continent after a marathon, then I'm desperately searching for these marathons in the short space of time that I've got now. Before the Antarctic race in November, I got to go to Australia and do the Adelaide marathon because that's the one that fitted in with the schedule, and so I set off and I arrived in in Adelaide and I'm wandering around the Arrivals hall looking for the exit and the bloke said to, came over to me, said can I help you?

Speaker 2: 28:01

You're looking for baggage. And I said no, no, no, no, I'm not looking for a bag, I've got no baggage. And he's kind of looking really, where are you from? I said I'm from the UK, I'm in Oriental, and he's going, it's going. And I could see what he was thinking.

Speaker 2: 28:14

You got no baggage. What's your purpose for being in Australia? Are you, are you seeing relatives or are you going on somewhere? Said no, no, no, no. I said I'm going home tomorrow. And he said you are. I said I'm going home tomorrow, you know. That's why I've got no baggage. And you know.

Speaker 2: 28:28

And what are you doing? I said I know, and it looks weird, doesn't it? I said don't worry, I've got a perfectly good reason to be in here. So what's that? I said I'm running a marathon in the morning. That's why I want to tell. And he looked at me and he said so, basically, you've come to Australia for a day trip To run a marathon from the UK. And I said, no, I suppose when you put it like that it does look a bit funny. But I said, yes, that is basically the sum of it.

Speaker 2: 28:53

So, yeah, I did my marathons around the world and then I got to combine the one in South America with the one in Antarctica, and the one in South America that I Choose was the only one available, which was the this one, which was 14 and a half thousand feet up a volcano, and I was out the front. I was no problem with the altitude, no problem with any of it. And then, at 28k, I rolled my knee on a Bit of volcanic rock and swelled up. I was in. I managed to finish. I do not know how I managed to finish. I'm surprised I didn't die. I mean I was literally. It was. It was appalling because, obviously, the altitude kicked in. Then I'd slowed down and it was like my head was banging. I couldn't see where I was going. I just do not know how I got round it in the time. I did, to be honest with you, but I collapsed in the back of an ambulance. I was on IV fluid for, you know, I'm pain relief.

Speaker 2: 29:49

Manila leg was enormous and the doctor just said in his broken English and some Spanish that my friend Bastia to go. He said he's game over, you can't, you can't, you won't gonna be walking, you're not gonna be walking in five days, you're certainly not gonna be running around in Marathon in Antarctica. So then we got back to San Pedro and flew down to Punta Arenas. I was absolutely bereft.

Speaker 2: 30:09

I spent the day in Punta Arenas looking for some walking poles and hiking boots and I thought I'm gonna have to walk this one. How long does it take to walk a marathon in Antarctica? I flew to Antarctica. I was absolutely bereft, I'd got high hopes of doing well in the race and you know, really, finishing on a high note, and I thought, right, I'm gonna start off trying to run. And then Halfway around we got back to camp and if I need to get the hiking poles, then I'll get the hiking poles, I'll just walk it. And honestly, truly, I do not know how I managed to win that race. I do not know how I managed to make a course record.

Speaker 1: 30:49

Wow, you want it as well, yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:52

And place with the men. You know they don't like that. I set off and there was some Japanese, very Enthusiastic Japanese people. They, they like these endurance events, they like this. And I remember it was. It was November time, end of November, and a Japanese trap in a Santa suit Sped off into the distance and I thought, blimey, this is gonna be a long day at the office for me.

Speaker 2: 31:14

And Gradually I just felt stronger and stronger and stronger. I remembered why I was doing what I was doing it, for I've got a lot of endurance, I've got a lot of ability to block out pain, and I just kept toddling along. There was one girl out there that was a Very, very good triathlete. She was tipped to win and I knew she'd gone way out front. I thought, well, that's game over, I'm not gonna win this marathon, and you know that's just one of those things.

Speaker 2: 31:41

And I remember coming into base camp, probably about 12 miles. After about 12 miles, I remember seeing these three runners up front, the girl and she got two guys running with her for Pacing and protection and I realised it was her and I was kind of wondering do I go past her, or what do I do, or is she just taking pity on the guys and running slowly to be with them, or, you know, I thought, well, I'm going to have to go past her anyway, because you know I need to run at the pace, I need to run out and think about what I'm doing. And I never saw anybody again, I just like shot off and that was it. And I managed to, you know, win the race and break. Not only the record had gone to do, but I actually became the fastest woman in running time actually to do these events. And you know it's just what I do, it's like, you know. Then I came home and looked after the animals, kind of thing, but I'd done my bit. That's all I can do.

Speaker 1: 32:38

You mentioned then about having the injury and just thinking, well, I'm just going to get on with it and run it. And what I've watched in the running for good, and then some of the podcasts that I listen to, and then what you're saying today is you know these injuries and then obviously losing the cap, and then you're saying you're not having it, not much in the way of running ability, so do you put it all down to mental strength and mental focus and just, and then, and then obviously they come combine that with compassion compassion for your animals.

Speaker 2: 33:06

It's all about knowing why you're out there. A lot of people training, like you might do some running. It's for weight loss. Do some running, it's for whatever you know, do it. But if you've got a reason, you know why you are out there, why you are getting up there, why you are trying to knock yourself.

Speaker 2: 33:24

I've got a monument, you little toys, new inventions. I have a treadmill inside the greenhouse and so when it gets hot, it's really hot in there, so it's 110, 20 degrees. So you've got to know why you're going out when everybody else is sitting around and probably drinking cold water and flake out. You've got to know why you're going to a greenhouse it's got a treadmill in it and going to run in there for two hours. I know why I'm doing it. I've got a reason to be out there the why is there. So I just have to make the how happen. I am nobody, I'm nothing. I'm not nothing special I have. I don't come from some. I know when people, when you say you went vegan at the time, I think some people think you come from some flamboyantly Bohemian family, that you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 34:10

That was like you know, my dad worked in the mining industry as a fitter above ground and my mother was a nurse. I have not got some sort of background that's different or privileged in terms of one money or status or connections or anything like that. The only thing I've got is me, the body I was born in, to try and make that difference positively, peacefully and proactively, and that's what I've tried to do and for me. You know, you get a lot of people in sport that cheat. Now I've had a letter a couple of years ago about one of my London Marathon results that was being upgraded because two of the Chinese girls that beat me worked in a 10 year doping, you know, and they'd been banned. So it was knocking on to races that I'd been in.

Speaker 2: 34:59

But to me that cheating extends to taking from animals to potentially benefit yourself. And the proof, what I wanted to prove is that actually people had told that eating animal derivatives will enhance their performance, and my running was always about showing them that that's not the case, because if I can do what I can do with no talent and no kneecap, you could probably do an awful lot better than I can do, and I've not had any animal derivatives for like half a century. How much more do you need? You know?

Speaker 3: 35:31

While we're on this topic, in the film I've seen that you've been invited to go to the BBC, and when you were invited, they said something to you before you went on, didn't they?

Speaker 2: 35:42

Yeah, I mean it was after the North Pole. Actually I'd run the race at the North Pole and it was quite a big thing. You know, british woman winning marathon at the North Pole, what, sorry, percy, british teddy bear winning the marathon, who you know? Let me go with him. So anyway, they said we'd like you to come up to Salford and Salford Keys and, you know, be on the breakfast prog. You have to. That is a big thing for me. I got no publicity whatsoever. I thought I've cracked it. That's it, I've cracked it. I remember it very clearly.

Speaker 2: 36:13

I was in my mum's cottage and you know they said you bring your mum with you. Great, we'll pay you train for Great, we'll get your hotel room massive. And can Percy come? Yes, he can bring Percy and he can sit on the seat. And there he is, sitting on the seat. And then the researcher rang back and said the only thing is, we'd rather you didn't mention the fact you're vegan. So I mean, what do you do? I mean, I'm not, I'm not Beyonce. I can't like sort of say these are my terms, I'm just taking a leave of me. So I said you know, ok, I'll go with whatever. But when I got up, there.

Speaker 2: 36:45

I did an auto. I did an auto, you know well, I did a naughty because you know it was almost. I got frustrated because it's it's like. What I found was there seems to be more connection. If somebody asks you, why did you run a marathon at the North Pole? It would never, ever have entered my head to run a marathon at the North Pole. I would never really have entered my head to run a marathon full stop had it not been for a desire to build a platform for which to reach out and speak out for animals in a positive way. That's all I ever did it for. I would have been very, very happy to just run local, you know, like London Marathon and probably another big marathon in the UK, never really thought about raising the bar, raising the bar, raising the bar, but I couldn't seem to get people to connect to the vegan bit.

Speaker 2: 37:40

You know my mother was voted inspirational woman of the year, one of the inspirational women's year, by the Daily Mail. This was years ago. So my mother runs after the news agency. It's embarrassing to watch. Comes about 50 copies of the Daily Mail. You know, like Mum's word, you know the one for your anti-pan, one for your anti-gene, one for your uncle, ron, get them all in post, you know, and the open article, or but it's all there about woman crosses desert, you know, with backpack to save animals you're flicking through and never mentioned the fact that I was vegan. And I'm thinking, oh, you know, I never. Really, it was only to promote veganism.

Speaker 2: 38:17

So when they asked me, why did you run a marathon at the North Pole, it's almost as if you, if you'd given the answer oh, I'm just an adrenaline junkie and I just it was there and I had to do it. You know what I mean? The challenge was there and I had it. It weren't nothing like that. I'd never even heard it. I'd never heard it.

Speaker 2: 38:34

At North Pole Marathon, I just it was raising the bar, I wanted to promote veganism and I just kind of thought what more do I need to do? I've placed in big city races. I've won loads of road, loads the course records. I've done for toughest foot race on planet. Somebody mentions there's a marathon at the North Pole. So you've got marathon and North Pole.

Speaker 2: 38:56

That's got to be definitive proof that as a vegan person, you can do anything on plants, because people like, let's say, when they come inside and it's cold outside, they say, oh, it's like flipping North Pole out there. And then you know if you, if you somebody wants to say, oh, I'm tired, I'm worn out, I feel like I've run a marathon. So you put the two together and ordinary people that have not necessarily ever done any of those two things can connect with it. And so they asked me why I'd done it and I just told the truth. See, diamond Jubilee, the Vegan Society next year, and I wanted to do something to celebrate that. So it was just what I could do positively for that and it like right anyway, onto the next question.

Speaker 1: 39:41

How does that make you feel? Because I know it demoralized and frustrated.

Speaker 2: 39:46

I kind of got used to it because it seemed to be. I was at a vegan festival a few years ago and somebody I was just walking around and somebody used the word. When they were talking about the press and they use the word veganophobia, it's as if the press had veganophobia, they just didn't want to mention it. And then, a couple of years later, I was running the London Marathon in a cow suit. I was intending to, and Mike Bushnell from the BBC came out and I did ask him why it was so difficult to include this word in what I was doing and he just said that, you know, veganism was very much considered to be something like terrorism at the time, full of fundamentalist groups that were using tactics that were not acceptable, you know, to promote their beliefs, and so it wasn't going to be. It wasn't going to be promoted. So I thought, oh right, ok, percy was very upset because you know, he just thought carrying a small teddy bear in the North Pole, and we did have an incident running into the finish of the North Pole Marathon where poor Percy had been in mid pocket. It froze and solid. I've got him out to do the all waving over the over the finish line. I could see the finish line in the distance. Unfortunately, percy had lost his hat. There was it was. It was bereft. I had to go back and look for it Now, on my hands and knees at the North Pole, running towards the finish line, thinking what am I doing on my hands and knees looking for a small teddy bear's purple hat at the North Pole.

Speaker 2: 41:19

And we got to the finish line. There was nobody there to meet us. So I staggered. It was literally like Scott and Amazon. I staggered into the warm tent where all the officials were and they looked up and said to me oh hello, what are you doing back? Like you know, you've just been shopping and you've come home early. And I said well, I finished. I just said nobody there. He said oh no, we didn't think you were running that quick. He said you wouldn't mind just going back out and running up to the finish line again so we can film it. That's why when I finished I'm kidding myself Now when I finished the first time, I looked pretty good.

Speaker 2: 41:57

When I finished the second time, I looked like I'd got hypothermia. I've been dragged through Edge backwards. Well, you know, I just looked terrible, but you know. So, yeah, I didn't. I never intended to do any of the events that I've done. I never intended to go glow protein around the world. It's not something that I wanted to do. I can honestly say that the adventures I've had with my running I've learned a lot from them very blessed to be able to have them. I never intended to do them, I never particularly wanted to do them. I simply did them to promote what I believe in.

Speaker 1: 42:30

So you started Vegan Runners. I believe that. What was that? Funny enough, I was at a camp out this weekend and there were Vegan Runner t-shirts everywhere. I think they all went out headed out on Sunday morning.

Speaker 2: 42:43

Vegan Runners was started in 2004. Prior to that, I had been running for the Vegetarian Cycling and Athletics Club. To run on certainly the elite star or the championship star of the London Marathon, you have to be in affiliated club clothing or a neutral vest, and that is adhered to so strictly that they actually walk round with a piece of perspex and measure the lettering on the club clothing and even on your socks to make sure that you are not getting any inadvertent, surreptitious publicity for anything. They are very protective of their brand and their sponsorship. So, anyway, I did the London Marathon in 2004 and I did pretty well in it. I think I was top four or something like that and sub three and all the trappings. And another guy in the Vegetarian Cycling and Athletics Club, peter Simpson, said look, you do realise now you are going into an elite category. You're going to be next year potentially running on the start line next to Paula Radcliffe. This gives you access to races that you know you're not going to have. Why don't we start a vegan runner club so that you can go out and, instead of promoting vegetarianism, you can have vegan written on you, on your on your vest, and people will see that and associate it with literally being the best being out there at the front of races. So Peter looked into the kind of kind of nitty gritty of actually affiliating the club whilst I went out and promoted it and did the running. And that's how vegan runners were started in 2004, purely because the results I was getting. And I remember there is one picture of me in the Florence Marathon that year and I'm running with two guys out the front of the race and the guys are just pointing at me and the vegan runner vest as if to say clap this person because she's like one of the best women here.

Speaker 2: 44:41

That was kind of a big moment when people were actually I remember running up the mall the following year and it came over the Tanoid and next thing, welcome the vegan runner. The vegan runner must have looked and said it's Fiona Oaks, the vegan runner, and it was kind of a magical moment just to hear that word in 2005. And I think that's the pivotal thing. People forget that this new explosion of the word vegan and veganism it just wasn't there until a few years ago, even probably about 2016. It really took off. Prior to that, nothing, nowhere. So to hear that word being introduced and announced in a positive way to the audience at the London Marathon was. It was the kind of amazing moment to think that people might, just somewhere in the back of their mind, be thinking hang on a minute. I thought all vegans were weak and couldn't get off the sofa, let alone place in London Marathon. This isn't what I've been told. There's something going on here. I might look into this and that you know. That's why vegan runners were started.

Speaker 1: 45:42

Yeah, I've got the sight of, but we're looking at. Last night actually I'm thinking I hadn't run, since that leads my nothing because of all injuries I picked up, but it might just prompt me to. It might just prompt me to get into it again, I think.

Speaker 2: 45:54

Maybe join up and get that across my chest Almost admit, when I go out running and I think I'm going to run really bad or I don't feel great, I put my vegan runner's top on because I know that I'm not going to let that top down and that word down.

Speaker 2: 46:07

So I kind of feel that I've act like a rumour when I've got this on, so something that I probably do treat a bit, because, like, if cars are going past you like striding along and then when they've gone, you're like, oh, but you know, but it does kind of inspire me, Certainly in races, when I put that that vest on, I know it's game on and I have. I want to say you know, I felt honoured to walk out and to be introduced on to race. You know, like I walked out into the Olympic Stadium with Aligabra Salassie and you're announced individually Fiona Oaks, vegan runner to. You know, an auditorium at the stadium full of sports enthusiasts that see you there with the greatest in the world and that's. You know, I'm not, I'm not putting myself in the same category as that, but I'm saying you know, I earned my place there, fair and square, and to my knowledge I didn't harm anything or anyone to get there.

Speaker 1: 46:56

When I started telling people that I was vegan, I worked quite because I was plant based first and then it was going, you know, fully vegan. Something just clicked in my mindset and went why are we doing this? You know, you see the suffering and you see the damage to the environment, and I think one of my biggest starters was my own health. I mean my health improved, my weight dropped, I felt better, felt better about myself. But when it was similar to when I first started talking about I've gone through PTSD and people like, oh you know this, this stigma around it, and I just, I just can't understand it myself, just getting it off my chest. Can I ask you, because we can't, can, we can't go away without it, tower Hills Stables, the work you must put in there, that the hours and the organization. You've around 450 animals.

Speaker 2: 47:42

Yeah, probably got one or two more. I mean, obviously it's hard to say because of the birds and that fairy, but yeah, it's round about that sun We've got a lot of big animals. It's a big commitment. I do get up at 3 in the morning and I'm able to work through. I'm very lucky to be able to work through a good long full day. I think that I've just done this 48 and 48, four hours, every four miles, every four hours. And it's supposed to be a really challenging thing to do to split 48 miles over 48 hours but only allow yourself four miles in every four hours. It hasn't been too bad for me because I don't need a lot of sleep, so I've been able to do it relatively easy.

Speaker 2: 48:21

But it's not just the work. The work is massive obviously. Obviously, I've been doing it a long time. I know exactly what's involved. I micro manage everything. The worry obviously is a great draining thing of energy because obviously, when I set the sanctuary up, we've had COVID, we've had a kind of cost of living crisis, so the worry of keeping it going, managing it to the standards the animals require, is massive.

Speaker 2: 48:50

But there again, I know why I'm doing it. I mean, for instance, and that's another thing that I think I'm very lucky. I mean, people say, oh, 100 miles a week, nine sessions a week, that's massive. Nobody could do that. You can do it. I go into my greenhouse and I run on my treadmill, but I see the reason all around me, I see the cattle. They're right, literally a yard just away from me. It's very easy to punish yourself and hurt yourself. You know, you for mystical area. You know, when you're running you just push hard and then it goes away when you stop. But they're the very reason I'm doing it. So it's not, it's not hard to work an 18 hour day. I don't actually like it. It's hard to explain.

Speaker 2: 49:29

I don't enjoy enjoying myself. People say, what do you do to enjoy yourself? Well, I go running, you know, or? But I don't really enjoy it because I'm quite tired. But I enjoy the, what it delivers. I enjoy the fact that I am doing something productive for the animals. I never go out. I've never had a meal out, I know I literally I don't. I don't eat out, I don't go anywhere. I run, I look after animals and I do my bit. That I all I can do. I don't want to do anything else. And you know what, no matter how bad at any point, I think I've got it. I just want to slap myself around the face and say, oh, grow up.

Speaker 2: 50:05

Eight and a half billion probably people, or seven or six billion people would probably never know the luxury that you're having today. You know, whether it be people who are displaced, people who are in fear of their lives, people who are suffering with pain. You know, I am lucky to be able to do it, rather than and that's the thing People, some people look at the cup has been half empty. I always like man's brimming over because, yeah, it's a tough day and I don't want to go and unload 50 ton of short feed or whatever I've got to do, collect 500 baler bay in the field. But when you step back and think, you know what, I'm really blessed to be able to contemplate doing this.

Speaker 2: 50:41

I've got two arms and two legs and I can see and that's the same when people focus on what do you eat, you know what do you eat. You must be like eating all day. I have one meal a day and that is the truth. Everybody knows it's the key and sorry, one meal a day. And rather than focus on what I eat. I eat food that is prepared by my mum with love and it's consumed with love. I don't have to fret about where the food's coming from in terms of it, the volume. There'll be a meal for me tomorrow night. There aren't missiles flying over.

Speaker 2: 51:10

I'm not going to worry about the house getting knocked down and insurgents and problems that so many people in this planet have got to deal with. I've got water in the tap. I've got a toilet that flushes. Do you know what? I've got it going on. I'm lucky and I look at those things every day and I think you know I'm blessed. I really am blessed to be able to keep doing this and I will keep doing it for as long as I can. I mean even I say with the testament to plants, it's not just how you can run, or if you can run 238, mariton, it's how much you can recover and keep doing it. You know I did this 48-48, finished it at seven o'clock last night. It was my birthday yesterday. My friend had made me a big cake, a binged-on cake, happy birthday.

Speaker 2: 51:47

And then I got up this morning and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to do anything, running wise or not. I thought about rest and then I thought no, to treat myself. I'm going to go back into my greenhouse and I'm going to run at a pace that I know I can run four miles out of. And I ran four and a half miles in 27 minutes. So you know, I am lucky to be able to do that. I am really lucky to be able to do that and to continue doing it, because running is all about rest, recover, repeat. If you can keep doing that, you'll keep improving.

Speaker 2: 52:15

And yeah, I just it's never going to be, nobody's going to have. I wish everybody would have a perfect life. There's no such thing to me as a perfect life. There are perfect moments within life and if you learn to recognize those perfect moments and it could be anything it could be looking up and seeing the little family of ducklings and the mummy duck that's nurtured them and kept them all safe and they're now flourished into ducks and a bit of sun on your face and a bit of wind in your air. It sounds like a cliche, but they are the perfect moments. That's as good as it's going to get, so you've got to be grateful for them. Rather than always trying to attain things in the future, don't forget to stand back and look at the present and think you know, this is good.

Speaker 1: 52:53

Yeah, well, it's that back to that compassion for the animals and the love for the animals, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 52:57

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 52:57

And being able to work with them every day. I suppose, yeah, if it's every day in, out, in, out, then it's a high level of demand. But they're reward Family, yeah, the reward is there.

Speaker 2: 53:06

I mean they're just like my family as my human family. They are my family. But it's not just the animals here. You know, I mean it's very easy. That's what frustrated me so much with just running the sanctuary. The animals here are safe, as much as I can keep them safe. Obviously, I'm under certain restrictions regarding death. I mean things like four-year TB testing that comes around for the catalysts always a worry, avian flu and such like. You know, things like that you've got no control over. But it's about the animals there that you can't touch, the voiceless animals, the animals that are locked away, that they're never going to be seen. How can you help them? I don't know if I have, I don't know if I have encouraged anybody to be vegan. People write to me from all around the world and say I saw your film.

Speaker 2: 53:48

I did the Asian leg of the World Record attempt in Omsk and one girl had travelled up from Kazakhstan and brought her family. She said I desperately want to be vegan, I want them to allow me to be vegan, and when I knew you were coming to this race, I wanted to bring my family and I wanted to show them what a vegan girl can do. And she said you've just made my day because I placed in that race. And she said just to see you out there running. It was just amazing and my family and I were happy. You know, for me to be vegetarian and vegan, I had that when I won the county championship years and years and years ago.

Speaker 2: 54:21

And my mum was standing with the lady mares and waiting for the runners to finish. She was presenting the prizes. The lady, somebody said to my mum well, is your daughter running? My daughter's running, and what's she hoping to do in this race? And my mum can't say she's come to win it, she's come to break the course record. She's come, you know? I don't know, I just think she wants to get round. And anyway I won it.

Speaker 2: 54:43

And the lady mares and I was in my vegan run of touch. She said do you know what? My daughter has wanted? To go vegetarian. She's 14. She's going to have to speak into your mum and seeing you do what you've just annihilate the whole field in that race, I'm happy for her to do it. I can see that. You know it's not going to. It's not going to damage her health, she's not going to be anemic, she's not going to be lacking of energy and not grow, or whatever people think. That's why I've done what I've done and you know it might have worked, it might have changed lives, it might have saved lives, it might not have done, but I have done my best and I've done it honestly.

Speaker 1: 55:18

Yeah, I'm with. I'll be honest, like I said before, leading out so to Kirstie was the stone speaking. I said I'm quite nervous about this to speak to someone so inspirational as yourself. I don't want to keep you too long because I know that you're a busy person.

Speaker 2: 55:30

I'm actually looking at the weather and thinking please keep me, because I'm going to be mad.

Speaker 1: 55:36

Yes, it's been as grim down there as it is up here.

Speaker 2: 55:40

Yeah, it is pretty grim. Yeah, it really is. It's not been ideal.

Speaker 1: 55:44

I'll tell you one thing that did stick it a stand out, that I noticed in the film when your mum said that she felt a bit guilty bringing someone so compassionate into the world because of. I think we're quite, you know.

Speaker 2: 55:55

My mum has always been a big supporter.

Speaker 2: 55:56

I don't, I'm not going to lie. I don't say my mum was understood all the time what I'm doing. My mum was back to me because my mum is my mum and my mum knows I was different from the minute it was born. In fact I've got an old sister who is what I would call academically much more gifted than me. I'm pretty like that.

Speaker 2: 56:13

I wasn't the most favourite student at school. It just didn't work for me. School just did not work for me, that way of learning. And my mum said at primary school I had my first week or two at school and the teacher said mum said to the teacher how's Fiona getting on? And I was like and the teacher well, let's put it like this, you haven't got another Alice. And my mum said thank goodness for that.

Speaker 2: 56:38

Yeah, I sometimes I mean my mum will say she wishes she never had me, she wished she 'd never been born because she doesn't like to see someone. That is that I am very determined, I will not stop. And I remember once I was having some building work doing and I was training and the guy that came, colin, it was his training. When I finished my session he said well, I won't want to watch somebody I love do that to the cells every day. I just won't want to see it. You know it is. I never, never, never, ever let anything slip or go. I just was not in my nature. I have to do what I'm going to do and she knows that, so she has supported me. I know when I went to do the Moscow Marathon one year, say, you know, it's Russia. Now it's all controversial, but I was one girl that I had helped people in Russia and I do have a sanctuary out there and it's difficult, it's really difficult and they said thank you for thank you for giving us Fiona, and it was kind of.

Speaker 2: 57:44

You know, I don't think of myself as some gift to the world. I'm not. I'm just a normal person doing normal things to me. That's what you do and, yeah, probably wish your life would have been a lot easier without me. There's no doubt about that, but that's not the way it works you know?

Speaker 1: 58:01

I think it's. Do you think it's possible you're a normal person in an abnormal world? Because it's not a good, it's not a great situation that everyone's in and the planet's in, is it so?

Speaker 2: 58:09

No, it's in a bad place. I mean it's in a bad place and I look at the innocence of animals and the vulnerability and I, and the exploitation and the greed and the cruelty, the unnecessary suffering that's going on and you think, no, if everyone could stop. I think a lot of the time. Rather than use the word compassion I, like you know empathy just stand back and think. You know I'm going to minute. Would I want that doing to me? Would I find that acceptable if the rule was?

Speaker 2: 58:40

that you know, and people don't have that ability to do that. They think only of themselves, but they don't have the ability to think of how it impacts on others. For me, veganism has always been about the animals. I'll be honest with you, I did not realise how veganism would impact on my own health, particularly. I certainly not bothered about the dietary side of things. I don't buy any of the replacement or products that are on the market A very, very basic, locally sourced humble, if you like, food. I didn't really understand the impact on global health, fairer distribution of wealth, the environment that was never the main driver. They're all just add on benefits of not harming the animals. But you're right, the world's not in a good place and if we, I think it would be a lot better if everyone did a little rather than a few doing so much.

Speaker 2: 59:35

And I don't put myself in that category, but it is what it is and we've got to work with it and all we can do is try and spread the message and just trigger people to think you know, perhaps I could do a bit more, or you know, perhaps that isn't right and I could do something about it. It's always been a difficult world with me because I've never been able to evaluate or kind of have a kind of recognition of how much if I have made a difference or not. But you just have to be focused, like with the Marathon, one step in front of the other, and you will eventually get there. It's going to be hard going, but you know you will get there and you've always got to have that belief. If you think it's a lost cause, then it's game over. So we can only do what we can do.

Speaker 1: 1:00:22

Yeah, I know, I know I definitely had a moment in that last Marathon when I was going to bail, but if I hadn't been sponsored and doing it for I did it for Papyrus and the Suicide Shredding I thought if I had been running this just for myself.

Speaker 2: 1:00:33

So it was quite, I think that's the main motivator of my running. If I was just doing my running for a quicker time, a tatty trophy or you know, or a medallist with a t-shirt, I wouldn't do it. The beat like what was it? Who cares? You know who cares. If I've gone some 20 or minutes of 5k, it was bothered, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:00:53

But having a greater reason to do it is always Because I think you'd always go that literally you've missed it extra mile for someone else rather than you would for yourself.

Speaker 2: 1:01:05

And you know that's what people have said, you know, with the training and that Don't you feel ever, you know, tempted to not do it or bail, or you know well, no, because then you just there's no point in that. You just treat it in yourself and the reason that you're doing it for it, you may as well stop if you're going to treat you know, but it's yeah, I think if you're doing something with a great passionate belief and a real why behind it, you're always going to push yourself further, and I think that that is what people don't focus on enough with sport. It's not just about physically being prepared, it's about mentally being prepared. And when I start on a start line, however, I'm going to run. I know at least it's only down to me and the only thing that's going to suffer is me. I haven't asked anyone else or anything else to suffer, to my knowledge, to get me there. So that's most important thing to me.

Speaker 1: 1:01:58

So what's coming up for Fiona and for the for Tower Hill?

Speaker 2: 1:02:03

Well, I just want to keep going at the sanctuary. I mean, obviously that's the day-to-day struggle. It's it's extremely difficult and I've got a big multi-stage race in Jordan which I'm looking forward to and I'm hoping to knock out a good result. I do like these self-sufficiency races now the week, the week long, just your kits on your back. You're going through the desert. I love the desert. I absolutely love running in extreme conditions. The hotter it is the better. I feel I love it. I do be honest with you.

Speaker 2: 1:02:37

The first time I did Marathon Disable, even though I had the broken toes, it was the most life enhancing in a positive way moment I could have had, because you just got all your belongings on your back for a week. You ain't got it. Somebody might be kind enough to help you but you're not having it and you've got a limited water. You just got a shelter that's like just enough room to put, you know, your sleeping bag, and every day you just out there, pushing, pushing, driving on and it brings it, takes you to dark places, brings you through them out the other side and you kind of find a person that you didn't know was in there and you come home and like you're looking. You're staring in the kitchen and looking at that miracle in the corner. What are you doing? I'm looking at that. What is the tap? Yes, it's like magic, and when you turn it, water comes out. That's how amazing it is and it all always you think about.

Speaker 2: 1:03:32

Actually, this is ridiculous. They call it the toughest foot race on the planet. It is very tough, but hang on a minute. At any point you can just say I don't like this anymore, I'm going home. Millions of people can't do that. They're in displacement camps all over the place. They can't. That's their life in a tent, you know, and it's just a horrible, horrible thought. So it's a great level.

Speaker 1: 1:03:52

We've got people crossing the Sahara. Haven't we Trying to get to a better? Life. Yeah, and they're not on there.

Speaker 2: 1:03:59

You know there's nobody's coming to rescue them If it all goes wrong, like you no helicopters, no medal at the end and no five star hotel for them to go into when they arrive, and whatever it is. You know, my friend, I work closely with my friend Mohammed in Zagora. Now we've got a little camp down there. I've got two rescued camels, Camille and Lawrence, and they live with his own. Lawrence yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:04:22

Lawrence was born on the 14th of February. We rescued Camille and she gave birth to Lawrence and I do what I can. We're helping a little school down there. I tried to start a little race running for good, the race to encourage people, to give opportunity to people in Morocco who wouldn't necessarily get to enter these multi stage races and get the fame that comes with them and the notoriety in the platform and the opportunity. So you just do your bit. Wherever you can, along the way, you try to help people and make a dire situation a little bit better. So all you can do what we do.

Speaker 2: 1:05:02

Live in a very, very challenging world and it is mentally, I think, very challenging because if you allow yourself to come to actually think how great the problem is, it can become overwhelming and you can become impotent to do your bit. It can just overwhelm you and envelop you the suffering of others and you can get so angry and frustrated by it. It literally immobilizes you and that's what I say to a lot of the people I don't do real social media a lot. It's a good. It can become people's master, where it can take over their lives, and it can become very negative and very toxic and you've got to be careful of that that you're not getting kind of an addiction to it and it's kind of negating any positivity. The negativity that's on there can negate your potential for creating something positive. I get angry and I take it out in my running. I think speed sessions are where I really really do get rid of all my you know, and yeah, it's not.

Speaker 2: 1:06:11

I'm not pretty psyched the best of times, but when I've finished like 2400 meters on my big technology, I'm like, oh, and, if I do put anything on social media, I put it there. And then when I've done the running and I just look like a wrecking ball. I just don't know what people I'm sweating and it's all going on. And I was in Hollywood and I was saying, look, what I don't get is how, when people post, they always look so good. I always look so rubbish, you know. And she said there's a woman from this PR agency. She said she worked for the Kardashians and that sort of thing. The thing that they do, fiona, is that they have a weekend and they take lots of shots of them doing various things and then when they've done something, they put the good looking shot with the what they've been doing, so to speak. And I said, but that's disingenuous, that's not putting the right information out there. That's saying that you can look good after 2400s or something like that. And if it's going to be on there, it's going to be the truth for me, whether it be you know what it actually looks like or what I'm actually saying, it's going to be the truth of the matter.

Speaker 2: 1:07:21

I know I was watching a video with Patrick Sang and he was saying a similar sort of thing about the runners. You know when, like Elliot Kipchoke, when he was going to decide whether to carry on running, he actually had to consult with his family as to whether they would agree to him carrying on, because he had to take himself away to a camp and just focus with other runners no distractions, because it was gruesome, wasn't pretty. And Patrick actually said that he got to the point where his sessions were so feared by the athletes he didn't tell them what they were going to do the following day because he wasted a lot of energy stressing about it, so we just hit him with it on the day. So I think stress can take away, you know, it can immobilise you. So I tend to stay away from all that and just get on with a job in hand. And you know, don't fret about what I can't do. Look, plan to identify what I can do and make as good a job of that as I can.

Speaker 1: 1:08:19

Right, but what I would like to say, if you're on it, is thank you for giving up your time and joining us, because I do know, or I think I know, I don't well, I don't think I can imagine how busy you are. It just seems constant. You never stop, you never do stop, do you? And not a lot of sleep, which I'm quite big on sleep, I'll be honest.

Speaker 2: 1:08:35

So, yeah, thank you, the thing is, though, I'm like a rollerball you know what I mean. Like I'm like one of them giant cruise ships that keeps plowing on. When I do get problems actually is when I do stop. I kind of thrive on doing a lot, and if I didn't have anything to do I then start to feel pretty bad. So I'm all with if I keep keep it going and people say to me well, how do you do fit all the things in?

Speaker 2: 1:08:59

I don't do the same thing every day. I don't get up at three and run for like 18 hours. So what I do is I, if I've got to get up at three, and I'll do some jobs, and then if I'm running and I want to rest after a run, I'll do something to sedentary. It'll still be a job, like it might be something on the computer, it might be unwrapping old bread that we get donated and stuff like that. So I kind of find a way of fitting in jobs but resting as well and just taking the emphasis of the strenuous, physical side of things and doing something mental and then kind of breaking the day up like that. So I'm always on the go, but I'm doing different things.

Speaker 1: 1:09:33

Yeah, do you know I could be away working, doing mountain work, teaching or leading whatever I'm doing like two or three weeks, and then on the day that I have off, I just collapse. It's like you know, because you just keep going all the time and then when you do get some downtime, you end up not being on top of your game. So, right, thanks all for that. Don't go anywhere, because we need to get some details off you. Thank you, fiona, but thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 1:09:58

I know you're not keen on it, but I do think you're very inspirational for what you're doing. Your compassion and empathy for the animals is unbelievable. Honestly, it's brilliant and such a good message to get out there, and especially for us being a mental health related podcast. That focus and the focus of doing it for something else so brilliant, thank you. Thank you, fiona. Oaks, thank you. Thank you, I'm very welcome.