E44: Whispers of Wellness: An Insight into the Power of Sound Therapy with Christian Jensen

Ever felt the vibrations of sound wash over you like a healing wave? Christian Jensen, a sound therapy alchemist from North Yorkshire, joins us to share the profound and sometimes unexpected ways soundbaths can influence our brainwave frequencies, leading to deep relaxation and cellular healing. From the ripples of a didgeridoo to the beat of a djembe, we journey through Christian's transformation from craft baker to sound therapist, and discover how ancient practices are being revived for their therapeutic powers in modern society.

Imagine a world where trauma finds release through the resonant frequencies of a gong or the soothing tones of a handpan. In this intimate conversation, Christian opens up about his personal battles with childhood trauma and the path to vocal and emotional confidence. He enlightens us on the significance of chakras, Bija Mantras, and energy alignment, giving us a glimpse into the potential of sound to heal and transform lives from the inside out.

As the session draws to a close, we reflect on the essential nature of self-care and the role of specific sound frequencies in achieving serenity. We discuss the tactile experience of sound therapy, the joy it can bring, and the importance of making time for our well-being. Join us as we explore the intricacies of healing instruments, the benefits of sound therapy, and Christian's unique insights, leaving you with a renewed perspective on how you can incorporate these ancient tools into your journey towards a more balanced and harmonious life.

The Sound Therapy Alchemist
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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello, christian Jensen, I've got that right. Yeah, yes, perfect. I always worry I have got names wrong before. Haven't I said?

Speaker 2: 0:07

You get my wrong sometimes.

Speaker 3: 0:09

You can't pronounce your second.

Speaker 1: 0:11

So welcome to the podcast. Can you give the listeners a little brief introduction about who you are, what you do?

Speaker 3: 0:17

So yeah, my name is Christian and I am the sound therapy alchemist. I am based up in Harrogate and Nersborough in North Yorkshire, but travel widely across Yorkshire for regular monthly sessions of soundbaths and sound therapy, as well as being available for rake eat, meditation and mindfulness sessions. I will also travel anywhere across the UK for people's retreats, private group events, corporate and school wellbeing and sessions within health care settings. Self-pitch.

Speaker 2: 0:42

You've practised that.

Speaker 1: 0:43

It doesn't happen before. You've definitely done that before. I've just absolutely said what we're using you in an advert and you've done it yourself.

Speaker 2: 0:52

No, it's all good, it's all good. One word that stuck out to me Soundbath alchemist. Sound therapy alchemist Sound therapy alchemist yes, is this a title you gain? Is this a title you give yourself?

Speaker 3: 1:04

It's a title that I came up with for the brand name Originally. I did start out with another name, but changed that in July of last year, so 2022. And it just seemed to have a ring with it. Somebody said to me I needed to keep sound therapy in there somewhere to really get it mentioned properly and let it jump out. And it just came to me sound therapy, alchemist, and I just absolutely love it because it's effectively what I do. I love it as long as the other stuff that I do, of course, but the sound baths are one of the primary things and it just works with the instruments that I use.

Speaker 1: 1:39

Bit like me going from marking to Charlie and then back into Marcus. It's all confusing Bout to go. Nothing like it, it's like two names, but not as exotic as my long hair. We met at Paul Mackinson on, who was a guest before. About Cucal Mackinson, oh, not again.

Speaker 2: 1:57

Really, paul, if you're listening, he's got your name wrong again Paul Mackinson.

Speaker 1: 2:02

we went to his spiritual healing care.

Speaker 3: 2:05

Yeah, conscious festival. Yes, conscious festival.

Speaker 1: 2:07

And you played there, but myself and Seb had done a like a mind circle thing. I'll emerge at men over in Manchester. Where was that the first time you tried this? A sound bath, yeah, yeah, and I've done. I've done a couple before and I think we need to get in and explain what it is really, because I was very skeptical the first time Kirsty took me to one. I've done Kundalini yoga and then he's staying for the sound bath.

Speaker 1: 2:30

You know and working in nightclubs and loud music and being into sort of rock music, you know, and then you're getting told about the gentle energy of the instruments. So that's as far as I'm going to go with that and you're going to hopefully tell us, ok, because I thought it was amazing, or it is amazing.

Speaker 3: 2:45

So for me, in the regular monthly sessions that I do, I effectively explain to people that they come into the room, they lay down for about an hour and a quarter and absolutely do nothing whatsoever.

Speaker 3: 3:00

Well, I play a wide variety of instruments, so they're there laying down, cosied up under blankets, pillows for the heads, and just allows them the perfect space and opportunity to completely relax, essentially. So with that, I will begin with a short piece of guided meditation, followed by the variety of sounds from the various instruments that I have, and they really work on a mental, emotional, physical and spiritual level to help reduce things like stress and anxiety. And it has been shown, with some of the sounds as well now, to be able to help with things like Alzheimer's and dementia and with lowering blood pressure and all sorts of other kinds of ailments. So the way that I like to explain how sound really works is from multiple kind of directions, but primarily the first one is if you can visualize a pebble being thrown into water, and I'm sure we've all had a go at something like that, when we've swiped beside the lake and spun a pebble in and you get those rings that emanate out Like a ripple effect.

Speaker 3: 3:57

Yes, yes. So any instrument that we utilize not just for sound, that we've got other instruments, when we're here in music, when we're using our voice, anything like that, that sound has to go somewhere so it can't stay physically where it is. So, for example, if I'm playing a Himalayan single, that sound can't stay where it is. It's got to travel through air and matter, matter being our physical bodies. So it doesn't just stop our bodies, it goes through our bodies, and our bodies are roughly 70% water. So you can then begin to understand the relationship between the way that the sound travels and how it's kind of shifting the water within the body simply because of those rings, effectively, of sound emanating outwards.

Speaker 3: 4:34

You can then come from the perspective of hearing the actual sounds, and our brains are built up of billions of billions of neurons. These neurons fire off an electrical signal which is known as the brainwave frequency. Those brainwave frequencies are recognized as five brainwave frequencies. So you've got gamma, alpha, beta, theta and delta brainwave frequencies. We spend most of our awakened day in what we call the beta brainwave frequency, which is where we all experience stress, anxiety and general day-to-day life kind of aspects. The aim of a sound bath is to get you down into, ideally, the delta brainwave, which is in essence where our bodies can physically heal and repair, right down to that cellular level.

Speaker 1: 5:16

This is getting into the Gavin. When we had Gavin Lawson, didn't we about audio visual and training, and that was similar to talking about the brainwaves.

Speaker 2: 5:22

It was the alpha rays and the gamma rays he was on about.

Speaker 1: 5:26

Fascinating stuff, isn't it? Very, very very scientific.

Speaker 1: 5:30

Yes, excellent, I love all this stuff. So what we're doing here is, though we're sort of explaining it. It's very scientific, but it's also spiritual. I think there's a confusion with that, because the conception of it being spiritual it's all a bit I'm going to use that word again hippie-dippy, which we're getting way over the hippie-dippy out with Elsep. You certainly changed, but that is through actually trying things like this and finding that yet it works. Yeah, you know what I mean Not being afraid of something like this.

Speaker 3: 6:00

Ultimately with a sound bath. Yes, it can be seen as, or used to be seen as, something like a bit hippie, I would say, a bit woo-woo, in some ways a bit strange, a bit unusual. But until you really try it you don't know the power of sound, and I think the power of sound is steadily becoming more widely recognized for how it can truly help you now. But for me, I absolutely love it. I feel often quite spaced out myself.

Speaker 3: 6:23

Sometimes people can have significant shifts.

Speaker 3: 6:25

So when I say that it works on that mental, emotional, physical level, the spiritual side is maybe more just simply the relaxation and enabling that opportunity for you to have that time out to do nothing and just clear the mind and be able to relax, and it helps open up the way to your journey forward to some extent it helps you to really declutter from what's going on in the outside world and allow you to just think about what you need.

Speaker 3: 6:52

So that's really, I feel, for me the spiritual connection. But the more physical sides of it is quite often there can be mental and physical ailments and things that are going on that we may have had it from as little as a few days before or it could have been childhood trauma or ancestral trauma or anything like that. Those things manifest in physical aspects, but quite often at the roots of it there's an emotional trauma connection, and what sound therapy can do on its deepest level is help to bring up that emotional trauma and help to release that connection, which quite often can lead to better mental health and better physical health, which seems to be thankfully moving away from this thought of the brain and consciousness being separate from the body and the physical body and it actually being all one.

Speaker 1: 7:41

Now again, which for a long time, people would treat brain and mental health but wouldn't treat body.

Speaker 3: 7:49

And it could be.

Speaker 1: 7:51

If there's a physical problem that can be related to the brain and the other way around.

Speaker 3: 7:56

It's understanding the whole body. So quite often I think one of the more recent things that are beginning to be understood is the recognition of the gut brain axis, so the gut being the second brain. So sound therapy can work with that in that respect as well, because it's gut brain axis, via the vagus nerve and your autonomic nervous system, your parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems as well, it's all interlinked. So essentially it is the whole body and the energy of the body.

Speaker 1: 8:21

Quick question we're not going to deep and rant here. Do you think some things like sound therapy were sort of dist and counted as woo-woo because people didn't understand them and how they work?

Speaker 3: 8:32

I think that's primarily where it stems from. But we are beginning to realise now just how, as I said, just how powerful it is and the benefits on so many levels, as I say, to help reduce the stress and anxiety. But we can also link into lots of recent scientific studies, some of them fairly small. The very prime example for that is over in Canada some years ago where they did a study for people with Alzheimer's and dementia and particularly with the note of E, where they sat the clients in the chair and they had speakers underneath the chair and they played the note of E through the speakers. So they got not only the vibration and frequency of the sound, the resonance of the sound travelling through the chair to them and therefore through their body, as explained with that water connection, they also heard the sound, the sound, the note. And it was over a period of approximately six weeks, twice a week where they did those trials and at the beginning and at the end they did a memory recall test and saw significant improvement in memory recall towards the end.

Speaker 1: 9:34

Well, that's like I said that's a scientific study, isn't it? Yes?

Speaker 3: 9:38

That is linked on my website as well. There is a link on there for people to be able to go and read that study.

Speaker 1: 9:44

So before we go, into possibly listening to notes and some instruments can. I ask you how did you, how did you get?

Speaker 3: 9:51

into it. It's been quite a journey for me. Actually, we're all on a journey. We are all on a journey and I could say so much more about that with how there's so many layers that we're all shedding, even myself. Maybe we'll come back to that bit in a moment.

Speaker 3: 10:05

But yeah, essentially I got into it because I've always loved sound and one of the very first instruments that I picked up that I felt really, really drawn to was actually the digital redo, and so I've played that for probably about 30 odd years now and I just find it so stunning to play a solo draw into it that the Gembe was another instrument following it. And then I used to go to quite regular music festivals small family-friendly music festivals, digital redo festivals and world music festivals. A couple of hundred people or so, no more than people would be playing all these sorts of weird and wonderful instruments and there'd be stalls there and I'd be drawn to them, not really knowing why I was drawn to those particular instruments. This is long before I was actually a sound therapist. I used to work as a craft baker for many years and always thought originally when I trained, that I'd always be a craft baker and that was it for life, but the universe had other ideas for me and for my journey. So around about 2017, I would say, I walked into one of the branches for the company that I worked for and in there there was a little bit of a well-being event going on where I'm at a lady called Diane Mitchell who runs the wonderful World of Well-Being festivals, now based in London area.

Speaker 3: 11:17

We got chatting and I happened to mention to her about have you ever heard of Digbass? And she said what was one of them? And eventually suggested would I do it there? And then, on the floor in that space, I went back to my flat, got a few of the didgeridoo's, had a little go at doing that for individual people for a few moments. She invited me to her inaugural well-being festival in Leeds at the time, the following March, so 2018. For atmospheric purposes, played the instruments around about a little bit and from there I haven't looked back.

Speaker 3: 11:46

I steadily built up more instruments and suddenly realised that this is what I wanted to do.

Speaker 3: 11:52

Part of that reason was also because of one of those festivals that I went to. I attended my very first sound bath and I went two days on the trot over that weekend because I loved it so much. The very first time that I went, I noticed myself drifting off steadily, coming back slightly and realising that there were other people in the room that were snoring just a little bit, very subtly Something that can happen because you go down into the Delta Brainwave frequency. Because you go into that real depth of relaxation, your whole body, the muscles in the whole body relax. I drifted back off again, started to come back to I don't know, maybe 20 minutes later or something, and heard the snoring again just very subtly and realised that it was actually myself. I was just to show that for me at the time, because I was quite an inward person, lacking confidence and there was a lot of stress in my life it just showed how powerful it was for me to help me and my body completely relax.

Speaker 1: 12:46

So like, just fall asleep. You've actually relac because you want to fall asleep in that situation if there wasn't the music going on. Is that what we're saying About? Just laying down so you're off?

Speaker 3: 12:56

I wouldn't necessarily have gone to sleep just by laying down.

Speaker 2: 12:59

In a room full of people In a room full of people.

Speaker 3: 13:01

There were probably 25 people in there at the time, so it was the power of the instruments with that sound and frequency that just really helped me to completely let go. And, as I said, that's where you can truly benefit from that healing level, because you're going right down into those depths of relaxation where the body repairs and heals to that cellular level.

Speaker 1: 13:20

I think the first soundbath I went to, which was in outward after Jules Kundalini, another guest we've had on, was the first experience of like first trying to relax because I'm thinking what is going on and then, as I did, relax and I felt myself relax and sort of felt myself moving to the floor, for it basically was a lot of colours and really, really enjoying it. But then once I'd sort of snapped out of it I couldn't get back there. But then the next one I managed it further and longer.

Speaker 1: 13:48

Then we did the emergent meant what's going on there with the colours and stuff, is that?

Speaker 3: 13:53

The colours quite often can be representative and, in relation to the chakras, it can also help to tell you where you might be needing some kind of healing or there's some kind of healing going on in that specific location. So if people were to look up the different colours of the chakras effectively like the colours of a rainbow, going from red up to the indigo, in that order that starts at the bottom of the body and moves up to the crown, to just above your head, in that same order, so it can tell you where there's some healing that's needed, potentially, with those visuals that you are getting Right to me, and correct me if I'm wrong.

Speaker 2: 14:30

It sounds like this has been around for years and years and years thousands of years ago.

Speaker 3: 14:37

A lot of the instruments that I use the Himalayan bowls, the gongs they are ancient instruments. One that I love to particularly touch upon is something, as I said, I play the digital that is known to be an ancient healing tool realistically and can be anything from two and a half thousand to four and a half thousand years old as an instrument. So the aborigines new way back then. The power of sound. It's just like we've in more recent centuries, I want to say decades. We have lost that connection a little bit, or maybe a lot at some point in time, but I feel like now we are really starting to reconnect with the sound and how powerful it is for the healing purposes.

Speaker 3: 15:25

The digital edu was in another recent study. I think I saw this online generally. They were in one of the London hospitals and they had somebody, a gentleman, strapped up to a blood pressure monitor. They played the digital edu to his heart and they saw his blood pressure drop. Oh wow.

Speaker 2: 15:45

Is this all something about having the right sound frequency going through your body and through your ears, your body reacting to it? Is it the rhythm? Is it a combination of everything? Is there some sort of explanation for this?

Speaker 3: 15:58

It's a combination of the environment essentially allowing you that space to have quiet and stillness. The sound and frequencies certain sounds and frequencies are more beneficial than others. So, in particular, two that I'd like to pick out are four, three, two hertz, which is effectively at one with the earth, with nature, and five to eight hertz is known as the sound of love and deep healing. So certain sounds and frequencies can be more beneficial than others.

Speaker 1: 16:29

So the sounds are working in a different way to the frequencies. Are you I'm getting that right? Yes, Because the frequency will just. You don't need to hear the frequency there and the frequencies passing through your.

Speaker 3: 16:40

It's all interlinked. Right, it is all interlinked. You can take the individual aspects, but it's the whole thing put together that really can take you on that deeper journey.

Speaker 1: 16:52

Would this be a good point to show the frequency with a singing ball? I think.

Speaker 3: 16:56

Yes, yes. So for those listening, what you will see is a very gentle shimmering on the surface of the water, but the more the vibration kicks in, it starts to bubble a little bit. So it's a little bit like a waterfall kind of the trickling sounds, the bubbling sensation.

Speaker 1: 18:04

That's simple, just running it around at the same speed.

Speaker 3: 18:06

Yes, so the sound builds, the frequency builds and although there's not much change in speed, as you say, it creates more of a visual to what's happening with the water. So this is where I say you can represent the power of sound within your physical body because of it moving the water, in that sense also moving the blood around, releasing toxins from your body, helping to rebalance the mind and body as a whole.

Speaker 1: 19:20

I think that's great as a visual display isn't it yes? Is that related to?

Speaker 2: 19:27

It looks like it was turning to sparkling water.

Speaker 1: 19:30

Yes For it to see it start dancing on the water. Yes that's amazing. What's the thing I've seen recently that's been out quite a lot where you put sand on and then to start playing with different instruments.

Speaker 3: 19:46

There are lots on YouTube, I believe, where you can get these visuals, where they have very fine grain sand on, effectively, a metal surface and they're using like a rubber mallet on the surface and, depending on the note and frequency, the sand will form into a very specific geometric shape, and those are different for a particular note as well.

Speaker 1: 20:10

So something like that do we know exactly what it would be affecting, or is it you know if we're looking at different physical elements or anything like that?

Speaker 3: 20:20

It's more general, as I say the whole body, because it's shifting water as a whole. It's helping to clear through any toxins. It stems in to being able to just clear the mind and body of any stuck energy, essentially wherever it is in the body. Helping to remove toxins helps to remove information.

Speaker 1: 20:43

Yes, I mean so where we're moving anything that's helping the amount of toxins that we have in our bodies, either willingly or unwillingly, that we're just breathing in and taking in through whatever eating and drinking. I'm quite blown away by that. I like that. I'm going to have to get one, seb. It's not a narrow field, is it really no Of what it can do? So increase in rebalance energy levels is physical tension in elements, deeper rest, relaxation and sleep, seb. Have you seen I need it. Every episode we talk about Seb, he just works too much. His mental clarity and focus. Rebalancing of a system relieves stress and anxiety really stuck emotions. As well as releasing the stuck emotions, that's yeah. That'd be quite good with the mental health as well. So is that what you was referring to with ancestral trauma?

Speaker 3: 21:31

Yes, ancestral trauma, childhood trauma. When we have experienced something, as in the childhood trauma, or whether we have carried something through from ancestral trauma, for example your parents or your grandparents, something that they might have gone through. As we move through the generations, we bring a little bit of that through with us. So, essentially, what we are doing with the sound is helping to release those hidden, stuck emotions that you might not even know are literally there. When you do release those emotions, you might not know why you're releasing those emotions. It could be connected to something that you are just completely unaware of, but you will feel easier and better afterwards.

Speaker 1: 22:13

Yeah, I think at first time I sort of came across this sort of concept was in some books about holotrophic breathing and it was sort of mind blowing really. But then the more that you expose yourself to that sort of learning then it's fascinating. And then with childhood trauma it may be something that's happened and being locked away to protect that person.

Speaker 3: 22:33

Quite often as well, we are told as children, maybe even as adults, more so men than women. A lot of that, of course, is changing now, but we are told to hold our emotions and to not cry. So, essentially, what's happening there is, we're burying that down into the depths of a body, into the lower chakras, and we're storing it. When you store emotional trauma, it begins to manifest into physical trauma and then, of course, mental trauma, otherwise, depending on what and where, essentially. But that physical trauma, say in your hip or your knee, could be representative of an emotional trauma that you've had in the past. For me personally, a part of why I got into what I do is because, as a kid, I was bullied for many, many years, as, I'm sure, a lot of children are and it's sad in many ways.

Speaker 3: 23:26

Some people can be seen to go the wrong way with that and not handle it very well, whereas I know that for myself to be on this journey that I'm on now, I'm proud of myself in that respect for how far I have come along that journey, almost seeing like they have not held me back in that sense in the end. But I equally forgive those that did what they did to me back then and that essentially helps to release that trauma as well. So it's it all helps to bring you into the centre of yourself and your own heart space and realise what it is that by creating that stillness, realising what it is that you need to do to help you, and the sound is just there as a carrier to really kind of like that litmus paper in that sense of bringing up those emotions and helping to clear it.

Speaker 1: 24:13

Yeah, I mean just in that little story, that little count of your past there, I think there's quite a lot going on with letting go, which we've spoke about with Martin as in that, stored up sort of anger and tension and getting sort of processing that, which is something that we don't really realise in Western societies. Breathe it out, let it go, because you're damaging yourself, aren't you? And it might be a constructive concept that you've got in your mind anyway, rather than getting revenge, I think what do you say? You are a wounded healer.

Speaker 3: 24:42

Yes, I guess I am in that sense.

Speaker 1: 24:48

You ought to be shocked at that.

Speaker 3: 24:51

There is a lot of work that I have done on self because, as I said, I was seriously lacking confidence even into more recent years, the last sort of up until maybe about five or six years ago, where people in the workplace would have a go.

Speaker 3: 25:09

They would tell you, say, to not give up the day job. If I was to try and just sing along to a song or something that I was enjoying on the radio in work, they would tell you to shut up, and that would kind of send me back to some extent into where I was, because it's like, oh okay, you know, and you kind of shrink back into yourself. It's not until most recently, I would like to say in the last couple of years, where I started to begin to gain confidence in my own voice as well. And I don't claim to be an amazing singer, but I utilise things a little bit like the Bija Mantra as part of my sessions. So people might know that as an arm and arm and so on, various pointers that they each represent individual Shakras upon the physical body as well. Harm is the main one, which represents the throat chakra, for example. So the more you can practise that yourself a little bit, it helps to free up that throat chakra.

Speaker 1: 26:05

So can we just explain to the listeners what actually a chakra is?

Speaker 3: 26:08

So the Shakras are your energy centres, essentially. The way to visualise them, to imagine what they are, is essentially a little bit like a Catherine wheel spinning, and the slower that is spinning means that there's some kind of blockage or something imbalanced within that location. The faster that Catherine wheel is turning, the clearer your energy in that location, so, as such, the healthier you are.

Speaker 1: 26:37

And mantras are sort of chants that are working on certain locations of the body.

Speaker 3: 26:42

So, as I said, it's arm, arm, arm, yam, larm, varm and ram, in that order from top to bottom, from the crown chakra down to the root chakra. So you've got seven Shakras on your body. So it's crown, third eye, throat, heart, solar plexus, sacral and root chakra.

Speaker 1: 27:05

So just to clear that up, I've done quite a bit. I haven't experienced this, but I think when we talk about Shakras and mantras, people go what's going on? Yeah, it's all sort of eastern, far eastern and ancient, and I might go off and run in my rant against them, but where does? We've sort of for a lot of years dismissed all that sort of thing and taken a tablet.

Speaker 3: 27:29

Yeah, one of the things that most interests me more recently is just going back a little bit to how the Notavie helped people with Alzheimer's dementia. When I first found out about that study I wondered why. Initially because for me the Notavie is the sole aplexus, so it's above your belly button and just below your rib cage. When I'm thinking about it I thought, well, I'm going to mean it. It's perhaps something to do with linking through from the gut brain axes via the vagus nerve kind of makes sense. But in traditional Nepalese systems with sound and the correlation, the note of E is actually the third I, which is the frontal cortex of the brain.

Speaker 1: 28:09

Okay, and frontal cortex is responsible for memory.

Speaker 3: 28:13

Memory, yeah, short-term memory, etc.

Speaker 1: 28:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the process. I've been reading about that.

Speaker 3: 28:19

So direct correlation with that note. Therefore, for that reason, so whichever one it is, whether you use Western, or the Nepalese it still correlates effectively, but for me. I really like the fact that the Nepalese one correlates with the third I.

Speaker 1: 28:31

Yeah, I've got experience of my father's got dementia at the minute, which, and it's it's horrible to watch. Yeah, yeah, so we can have conversations about his childhood and we can have. But then you get really talk. You know I've dropped him off one night and he couldn't remember all that. Yeah, and we, you know you, and it's like it's not great to see, but then but then, yeah, yeah. So what's going on? This is short-term memory. Yeah, can we hear the note of E.

Speaker 3: 28:56

We can. I've got my handpan instrument here. I'll play a little bit on that. The middle note is essentially in the notes of E.

Speaker 1: 30:48

I mean, what a fantastic instrument that is. I could actually feel that here.

Speaker 3: 30:52

to be fair, I have placed it on people's bodies before now, directly, which is one of the things that you can do, particularly with the one-to-one sound therapy. So, whether that's using the handpan, himalayan sing-balls, crystal singing balls, the gongs in their space, some of the instruments you can place directly upon the body in certain locations where you feel that something is stuck, and you can help to clear that direct entry, which is just so powerful in its own right again.

Speaker 2: 31:16

So you were improvising there, or is this the rhythm that you use? Are these the notes that you use?

Speaker 3: 31:22

I very much like to go with the flow. With any of the instruments that I play, whether that be the gong, the handpan, himalayan balls, the sessions that I do, I'll always start out with the himalayan singing balls and then move roughly in the direction of the gongs, and there is a rough set plan of sorts. But within that plan there is very much a huge amount of flow, mainly depending on how long I might play the instruments for at any given time. So the handpan yes, there's a certain order in some ways, but again, it's just going in any kind of general direction. Within that there's essences of smaller parts.

Speaker 2: 31:58

So it must be set to a scale that you can.

Speaker 3: 32:01

The scale is in its low E pygmy scale. That's what it's called.

Speaker 1: 32:08

That means multi-other than me. Seb's sister's a musician actually.

Speaker 2: 32:14

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:15

Yeah, what does she play?

Speaker 2: 32:17

Quite a few things, though she's talented as well isn't she, she is, yeah, yeah, give her a little, give her a little shout out. Yeah, she's a pianist really, but she trains Well, she used to train.

Speaker 1: 32:26

Give her a shout out then.

Speaker 2: 32:27

It's my beloved sister.

Speaker 1: 32:28

Sister, okay, it's not giving me names, though she did the music for us. But yeah, so yeah, big up for that. Yeah, how long does an instrument like that take to learn to play?

Speaker 3: 32:39

It's really quite difficult for me to pinpoint how long it took me to play. I just felt like it was a natural really for me.

Speaker 1: 32:44

Yeah, I suppose you've got experience in these sort of instruments.

Speaker 3: 32:47

anyway, yeah, what I think the best thing about this particular instrument for me was finding out was, rather than thinking that we're about three notes on it, there's actually seven notes in each section, and you've got eight sections effectively around the circumference of the handpan Right. So each section has seven different notes. So the array of sounds and frequency that you can get out of that. And what I particularly love about the one that I have is its laser cuts to tune the notes so it actually makes it more resonant as well. So that note hangs for a lot longer, so therefore travels for a lot longer. It's beautiful, isn't it really?

Speaker 1: 33:20

Something like that, invented by accident? Oh, it can't have been, can it really From?

Speaker 3: 33:24

Oh, it's just developed over, yeah, from what I know of, I like to think of it being something similar to the Jamaican steel drum in essence, because that's been around for a very, very long time. But it was two guys, as far as I'm aware, who were based in Switzerland Initially. They developed the instrument called the hang, and there's two guys in America's factory the same instrument. They called it the handpan. From there it has then slowly spread. I think you're looking probably around about 30 odd years.

Speaker 1: 33:53

Is that it?

Speaker 3: 33:54

It's fairly new in terms of instruments.

Speaker 1: 33:58

I think it was centuries old.

Speaker 3: 33:59

It might well be older than that, but for me I first saw it probably about 20 years ago. I'd wanted one for 10 years after that, yeah, but they were really really expensive as well. At the time those particular guys in Switzerland, you were looking somewhere in the region four and a half grand for one of these instruments, right, so it was impossible for me at the time. But as they become more popular, obviously, like with a lot of things, prices come down a little bit as well. Just the way that this one was made made it a little bit cheaper, yet still gave it that structure and beauty and strength of an instrument.

Speaker 2: 34:30

And it's a beautiful sound. Yeah, how many instruments have we got?

Speaker 3: 34:33

Where do I start? I've probably got about eight Himalayan singer bowls, one handpan, two gongs, 18 digital dues. Wow, do you want me to go on? Seven crystal singing bowls? Really, you know, there's lots and lots of instruments and they create the sessions that I do. As I say, starting with the Himalayan singing bowls and always having the gongs within it these days, but then other instruments. I will shift a few things around so I might play the digital doing one of the sessions. I might, on another session, play a little tongue drum that I've got as part of the set and other sessions maybe bring in the shamanic drum.

Speaker 2: 35:09

Sorry, I'm reverting back to my sister, because my sister used to love to travel and she always used to bring a little instrument back. Being a musician, this is something you used to do as well. Travel out in the world and find things that are very unusual.

Speaker 3: 35:23

I mainly found mine at festivals, as I said, such as the one that I went to digital do festival down in North Hampton, and there were stalls at these festivals and there were other people there on those stalls who had gone globally looking for instruments and brought them back to sell on things like an instrument called the Dan Moi, which is basically like a Jews harp, just of that particular country where it's made, it's got a different name.

Speaker 3: 35:49

But one of the other instruments that I have it harks back to my roots a little bit, because my grandfather was an Norwegian and there's an instrument called a salia floater which is effectively two finials either end of a tube of dried out birch bark which is cooled up on itself, and you use that a little bit like a flute to put to your mouth and the more air you blow through through the hole, the higher the note and the less air, the more gentle the note. And every year they would create one of these flutes out of completely natural ingredients and it would shrivel up by the end of the season. The next season, as the sap is rising, they'd create another one salia floater or in English, salo flute or willow flute.

Speaker 3: 36:35

Okay, oh yeah, willow flute makes sense.

Speaker 1: 36:38

So, you've got another singing bowl there. Yes, in a group session. What would that? What would that? Is it? What frequency? What would it do? What would they achieve? What's it just as a solo instrument, is it? Or does it have to be in an arrangement?

Speaker 3: 36:52

It doesn't have to be in an arrangement the one where I demonstrated with water before although it changes the note when the water is in there. If that was empty and played as part of the set, it's effectively in the note of E, Right. The other bowl I've got here represents the crown chakra in the note of B, so I would utilize them. Whether I am hitting them once, as I can do with this one, you strike it once, you can hear how long that goes, even just that one hit on the instrument. So that sound is traveling and having a vexation, it's doing something, it's beginning to start that process of relaxation. I would move through about the eight Himalayan singer-balls that I have in any given order, sometimes playing two of them at the same time, and it just really fills the space beautifully.

Speaker 1: 37:45

That's still going isn't it Still going? I'll venice, I'll double-love them.

Speaker 3: 37:51

They are made of several different metals, each of the Himalayan balls. You can't just have a singing ball with one metal because it wouldn't sing essentially. So there's several different kinds of metals in there, of varying proportions, whether it's copper, zinc, anything, and it's the alloy that's making it.

Speaker 1: 38:07

Yes, Right, If any listeners were sort of curious and they thought, right, I want to go, well, they should be curious because, although they're not going to take my word for it, probably, but they should be because you know the benefits. One, I'm telling you, and two, there's the science in it now and you're telling me. So what would they, what could they expect, coming into either group or a solo session?

Speaker 3: 38:29

A group session, as I said, people would come into the room. They'd lay down for about an hour and a quarter doing absolutely nothing. Well, I move through the variety of instruments on any given day. It helps to get you essentially into the parasympathetic nervous system, so out of the sympathetic, which is your stress and your fight and flight kind of situation, into the parasympathetic, which is your rest and digest. From there it can ultimately be for something as simple as just a little bit of relaxation on a given evening or afternoon, whenever the sessions are. Or it can be much deeper.

Speaker 3: 39:05

If you really do want to go even deeper, then the one to one sessions are ideal because I can really cater for you as an individual and work with certain ailments that you may have at the time. Sometimes I don't have to know what those ailments are. I can find out where there might be blockages using tuning forks which I scan over the body. What essentially happens there is it'll be a little bit like hitting a crest in a wave, where it'll bounce away from the body If there's a bit of a blockage, or they may tap against each other. If there's a bit of a blockage in that location, I can then represent that with a specific note and help to work on that area. Yeah, that's fascinating as well.

Speaker 1: 39:44

So much to sort of go at what other instruments have you brought with us that we could have a listen to?

Speaker 3: 39:47

So I have also brought one small instrument called a Koshy Bell, which is a beautiful chime essentially. What is it called again? Zoe Koshy Bell, koshy Bell, of course.

Speaker 4: 40:36

Koshy Bell, koshy Bell.

Speaker 2: 41:23

It's playing like a beautiful melody, isn't it? Can I look?

Speaker 1: 41:26

inside you can? I'm fascinated by that. That's Of course. I've heard it, Ah, wow.

Speaker 3: 41:32

So there's about seven different prongs of metal of various lengths inside, with a little plasticky kind of ball that hits those points. That's amazing isn't it? So they are specifically tuned to those points and each Koshy Bell overall is tuned to a specific element Koshy's K-O-S-H-I and they, despite the sound of the name, they actually originate from France and there are four of them tuned to the lower four chakras representing earth, air, fire and water Right, so it's not all eastern.

Speaker 1: 42:06

So it's not all eastern. Well, that's great, because it's blown one of my sort of preconcepts. I've got this thing about sort of western medicine and stuff. Oops, yeah, I'm doing sort of Switzerland and France-O-Di-Service one, are they?

Speaker 2: 42:20

I mean, I really enjoyed that I might need to get one of them.

Speaker 1: 42:25

Yeah, I'm thinking. I'm just sat here. Just there was only a minute or so there, but you're just like, you're thinking.

Speaker 2: 42:32

I mean, I'm quite into music and sound anyway, but it's amazing.

Speaker 3: 42:36

It just takes you on that journey instantly. Quite often I will actually play these towards the end of my sessions and it's about tailing it off, because what I particularly like to do within the session, especially the group ones, is to very gently start, bring it up to a little bit of a crescendo or sorts, usually with the gongs, and then just very gently bring it down with other very subtle instruments, just to really take you on that full depth of a journey, of an experience through sound.

Speaker 1: 43:04

So, seb, I'll put him on the spot. Do you feel anything physical or mental off that?

Speaker 2: 43:11

To be honest, I know you were focused on the instrument and how it was being moved, but I had a right, good smile on my face. It just made me feel really happy, just really happy.

Speaker 3: 43:22

Look at smile on him. Most stress-manic world in his smiley-nowhere.

Speaker 1: 43:26

Yeah, we might have to buy that off you. We won't be letting you out of the studio. I've already looked it up.

Speaker 2: 43:32

Yeah, I've just wrote it down. That's going on my Christmas list.

Speaker 1: 43:36

Yeah, that's really good.

Speaker 3: 43:38

So what else have we got to go up? So, last but not least, I do have a gong with me as well, one of the beautiful gongs that I more recently purchased. Go and grab it. So this particular gong is 70 centimetres in diameter and it's from Wuhan, in China. It's handmade. The two gongs that I do have the one is this one in Wuhan and the other one is a gong which was made in Nepal, both of which handmade, 70 centimetre gongs, and I just love the sound and vibration of these instruments. They're just stunning. Again, ancient instruments.

Speaker 1: 46:10

Again, I could hear that. I could hear that on top of my head really. Well, it's got the earphones on it, but I don't know.

Speaker 2: 46:17

The headphones definitely amplified everything, but you could feel it in your body, couldn't you? Yeah, I just found it quite fascinating how many different frequencies I could actually tune into through different times especially at the end. I'd just heard a complete different frequency which I didn't hear at the beginning.

Speaker 3: 46:34

One of the things I like to also create on the gongs in my sessions is the sound of a whale song as well. I haven't brought the implement with me today, but it's just so powerful. It's a simple little tool, a little bit like a rubber mallet that you rub against the metal of the gong and it just creates that beautiful sound of whale song, which for me is a real ancient, original, healing kind of sound. It's a very, very powerful. Will you be playing that?

Speaker 1: 47:00

at the birth of your child, ah.

Speaker 3: 47:04

Well, I may well be too busy for that part of it, but we would love to have something there in some way. So, whether it's me or someone else actually doing a little bit of sound, somehow, we're going to figure that one out. That must be exciting times for you coming up, very exciting. A whole new journey for me about 12 weeks or so's time. Yeah, expecting my first child.

Speaker 1: 47:26

So Excellent, exciting times ahead. Yeah, very big live change.

Speaker 3: 47:33

My partner, I should say, was in a lot of the sessions with me as well, while she's been carrying him Some of the earlier sessions. Obviously before we knew she was pregnant, she was there. Although it is generally advised that you don't take part in a sound bath if you're in the first trimester, it can be shown to be extremely powerful for both mother and baby during the latter stages of pregnancy.

Speaker 1: 48:03

Yeah, I suppose that's when the unborn baby is stimulated by noise as well.

Speaker 3: 48:08

Yes, certainly in the latter part of the second trimester their hearing really starts to come online. So we have noticed when some of the sounds that I've been playing at home or within the sessions when my partner's been with me, I have noticed the baby moving a little bit and responding to those sounds which is just absolutely amazing.

Speaker 1: 48:28

I suppose the frequency goes through the body.

Speaker 3: 48:29

anyway, yes, in particular when baby was quite small. My partner was laying in the sessions and she noticed the amniotic fluid kind of moving to the sound of the gongs in particular, it was quite potent in some ways because she was quite close to the gong at the time, but just absolutely amazing the sensation overall.

Speaker 1: 48:54

If somebody was thinking of coming along. Is there reasons that they shouldn't come along? Just talking about that with the early pregnancy.

Speaker 3: 49:02

There are some contraindications. So obviously, as I said, the early pregnancy side of it is one of those. But generally speaking, there are people who might have metal parts in their bodies. So whether it's metal in the knee or in the hip or somewhere Although it's not known to cause any significant issues necessarily you might feel some kind of frequency and vibration, a little bit like a tingling sensation. There might be something that's going on and it might be a little uncomfortable for you. In that respect Nothing major. But the more important ones are people who might have what you call musicogenic epilepsy, so it's very specific to sound and frequency. So they are obviously advised not to come along to something like a sound bath. It's very rare, so the people who do have that are likely to already know anyway, and so it's quite simply wouldn't attend.

Speaker 1: 49:52

It's not something you can overdose on no, no.

Speaker 3: 49:55

I have had people follow me around from one session in one location to another within the space of a month. Generally I do them once a month in a particular location, so people have come a few times in a month to two sessions. You can't really have too many.

Speaker 1: 50:09

Yeah, sounds funny. Would it be like Of people doing daily practice, don't we? With meditation, tai chi and all these other modalities? So very similar.

Speaker 3: 50:20

Very similar in that respect. Maybe coming a couple of weeks, three times in a week or so is not unreasonable, Even for me personally. I don't know about every day, but it depends on you as an individual. If you really want to do that, then there is no harm and you would be more than welcome, I suppose, you as the practitioner.

Speaker 1: 50:41

You're there every time, obviously yes, so you're feeling the benefits every time.

Speaker 3: 50:46

Yes, quite often towards the end of a session I might end up tripping on my words as I'm trying to bring people back, because I'm so spaced out myself that it's just it's. Any particular session has just completely blown me away. So, yeah, it's partly why I love doing what I do with it. It's just because of that power of the sound.

Speaker 1: 51:04

Well, you can tell, yeah, you can tell how passionate you are about it, yes, so it's a good thing, yeah, and before when you were in the baking, would you? You were so like you were playing instruments then, weren't you? Because you said you'd been to digivio for a long time yes. So were you always relaxed.

Speaker 3: 51:21

No, I wasn't, Mainly because of the general daily stresses of the job more than anything. In that sense, yes, playing something like the digivio or another instrument would help me in that moment.

Speaker 3: 51:36

It would help me to switch off and to be able to begin to relax, but time goes so quickly sometimes you're back into the job the next day and pressures of the job, which is why I find it's really so important to get into that corporate side of things as well and to really help as much as possible in that kind of situation. Something like a sound bath is absolutely ideal for part of some kind of well-being day.

Speaker 1: 52:00

So now we've got everybody hooked and ready to embark on a sound bath. Whereabouts do you practice, did you? Didn't say this at the start, did you?

Speaker 3: 52:10

No, I did say I'm right across Yorkshire for the regular monthly sessions, but essentially at the moment I am in Harrogate, nezbrough, pontefract, greenland, and in Wakefield as well. On occasions there's various other spots that I am at, moadhoc as well but my regular monthly sessions are generally those when else, and York as well, of course.

Speaker 1: 52:33

And where else can people find you and look up for your?

Speaker 3: 52:35

social media. So yes, I'm on Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn at the Sound Therapy Alchemist. My website is wwwthesoundtherapyalchemistcouk, which we will add on the blurb information.

Speaker 1: 52:53

That blurb I don't know where that word came from.

Speaker 2: 52:56

I don't know you made it up Some sort of hipster word or something.

Speaker 1: 53:01

It's one of these words that young people use. I'm out of that, I'm afraid. We're both on this journey of doing these podcasts, but I think I'm a little bit in front because I was doing stuff before that I got into with Kundalini, and this is how it's all sort of come around. You know what's our tagline Find your way back to you. Yeah, so we can find these ways of helping people de-stress or recover from mental health issues. I realise I've got them, and Seb's the most hardworking man I've ever known in my life, and when he gets time off it works. He'll put some more work in it, so it's great to have him trapped in the studio and you in the is it the note of E? And giving him a bit of relaxation. So, yeah, if you've got a little bit of a good go out on that, that'd be brilliant, wouldn't it?

Speaker 3: 53:42

Yeah, I think it's. One of the most important aspects is to give time to self, even if it's just for a few minutes or, as in the soundbass, an hour and a quarter of absolute, pure bliss.

Speaker 1: 53:53

So that's two of us, yeah, and not just talking to the listeners. Yeah, I'm a big fan of this. You've got to give time to yourself, because I was terrible for it. Yeah, and I still am, but I know that I'm terrible at me, admin. So what do I do? I do a bit of admin, then I stop and then do a bit of something else, and I do listen to fully enough. What I've started doing on my admin is listening to Spotify and listening to the OMS, yeah, well, and now, while that's playing, I'm not as ranty and it means my keyboard lasts a bit longer, because it's usually Seb that repairs the keyboard.

Speaker 3: 54:24

So perhaps a little bit of handpunt finish.

Speaker 1: 54:27

And that'd be brilliant, christian Thanks for coming on, because this is very much.

Speaker 4: 54:30

This is very brilliant, Absolutely Pleasure yeah.