E51: A Journey of Healing - Katy Roberts' Mission of Mental Health Advocacy Through Cycling

What happens when grief propels you into a mission of advocacy and healing? In today's episode, we sit down with Katy Roberts, a courageous woman who is cycling the entire coast of the UK to raise awareness for mental health. Driven by the heartbreaking loss of her father to suicide at the age of 17, Katy shares her powerful story of resilience, turning personal pain into a profound journey of healing and support for others. Join us as she opens up about the emotional and physical challenges she faces and how outdoor activities like cycling have become her sanctuary.

Navigating the complex emotions that come with losing a loved one, especially at a young age, Katy delves into the impacts of grief that many shy away from discussing. She speaks candidly about the anger, mistrust, and relationship difficulties that followed her father's passing, and the long, arduous road towards emotional recovery. Our conversation also highlights the therapeutic benefits of nature, the solace found in community, and the various healing modalities that have been instrumental in Katy’s journey. From meditation and sound baths to the transformative power of simply talking, this episode is a heartfelt exploration of coping mechanisms and the strength found in vulnerability.

As Katy prepares for her monumental cycling adventure, we dive into the logistics behind such an undertaking. Route planning, keeping a strict daily schedule, and coordinating meetups with supporters are just the tip of the iceberg. Katie also discusses her efforts to choose a charity that genuinely makes a difference and the importance of staying connected with her supporters through live updates. Her story is a testament to the power of community, the significance of mental health conversations, and the hopeful message that healing is possible, even in the face of tremendous loss. Tune in for an inspiring episode filled with perseverance, hope, and the collective power to make a difference.

Sea To Saddle Website

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello and welcome to the White Fox Talking Podcast. I'm Matt Charley-Valentine, and tonight we're online and, as usual, seb is in control. How are you, seb?

Speaker 2: 0:09

I'm all right, thanks, but I'm not sure if I'm in control.

Speaker 1: 0:13

Oh, don't tell them that I wonder why you're here. You're here for that one or two deep, meaningful questions, when I'm having a bit of a block at you.

Speaker 2: 0:20

Yeah, yeah, that's when I jump in.

Speaker 1: 0:22

Excellent, that'm here what you've been up to. You've been cycling, which fits in with tonight, doesn't it? Cycling footballing played our last 11 side late game, lost 4-1, but it was great well, it might be better next year because you might have a better, a nice new kit to wear, that's true hopefully more, more to reveal about that a later date.

Speaker 1: 0:41

We should say, yeah, I've been away for a couple of days, would, would you believe? A bit of cold water, swimming, a little bit of walking on the beach grounding, a little bit of forest bathing and then driving back tonight. It all goes out of the window because it's all stressful work tomorrow. But we need to sort of deal with that. As it appears we're good. We're good for tonight anyway. So on with tonight. Do you want to know who we've got Seb?

Speaker 2: 1:05

Absolutely Tell me.

Speaker 1: 1:06

Good, because these are the sort of podcasts that I really enjoy when somebody gets in touch with us. In fact, tonight's guest messaged us on Instagram and asked Seb basically to describe what she was going to do and offered to spread the word of White Fox Talking because of what we're trying to do and raise awareness of mental health issues. So welcome to the White Fox Talking podcast, katie Roberts.

Speaker 3: 1:33

Hello, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1: 1:34

How are you?

Speaker 3: 1:35

Very well, thank you you are most welcome.

Speaker 1: 1:38

What I'd like you to do, rather than me rattling on too long, is if you could give yourself a brief introduction who you are, where you're from, an outline of what you're doing, and then we'll get into the details.

Speaker 3: 1:49

And yeah, get right into it yeah, sure, well, yeah, I'm, I'm katie. I'm very lucky, I live in cornwall, I'm 34 and I am cycling the coast of the uk starting on june the 1st so not long, I think 12 days time. And yeah, I'm doing it to raise awareness for mental health. I lost my dad when I was 17 to suicide and, yeah, it's been a funny old journey to here, but I feel very passionate and ready and yeah, ready to take on a challenge like this and to talk about it.

Speaker 1: 2:27

That's it in a nutshell, but that's not the podcast over, because let's get some details. I mean, that's a hell of a challenge. It's a long way.

Speaker 2: 2:36

By the coast of the UK? Do you mean all the way around?

Speaker 3: 2:40

Yes, and I'm going to be getting in the sea every day as well. Just to make it a little bit more difficult or fun, if you want to look at it.

Speaker 1: 2:51

Yes, there's not much cheating, Right? I think this might be quite sensitive and we've got to respect that, and for yourself and for anybody else that's listening. But you've mentioned there that the reason you're doing it or I thought you were doing it is raise awareness of mental health and mental health issues and basically, this started with you're losing your father to suicide. Yeah, yeah, are you all right to talk about that?

Speaker 3: 3:15

yes, I am. I I feel I've got quite a fire in my belly and and I really want to talk about it and I'm very happy to talk about it, so yeah cool, right?

Speaker 1: 3:24

well, let's, let's be clear, let's talk about it on your terms. Totally, it's not. It's your podcast, really, we're just podcasting it. So it's more about you know how, the way you want to present it. I have got experience of losing close friends. It's tough now to lose a parent at a young age. So I don't know you want to talk about this, but I'll let you. Let you take leave, rather.

Speaker 3: 3:47

I mean yeah, I can, I can give you a sort of I mean, please, please, ask questions. You know, um, and I'll be I'll. If I don't feel comfortable, I won't. I won't ask them what, I'll just say I feel uncomfortable but I feel very, um, ready. It's been a long time. I'm 34 now, I don't know 17, 2007.

Speaker 3: 4:06

And, um, yeah, it was quite a shock, uh, to say the least. He there's lots of things, I think, that that potentially built up for him. He um got, took voluntary redundancy. We moved away from friends and family. I think he wanted to run a business like his parents and found it very difficult. He was in London working as a kind of reinsurance broker and hated it, and he did that for 25 years. But then, I think, the shock of losing your job and providing for the family and, and so I think that's just a lot, a lot for him, um, and I think, you know, I was 17, so I had boyfriends and was studying, and I think he just felt like, yeah, I think he felt like we didn't need him, which is the opposite, and it's that's the saddest thing is like I'm I was very angry with him for a long time because I was like you have no idea how much I need you, you know, and even now it's like, oh gosh, dad, you know.

Speaker 3: 5:01

But I'm very lucky as well, because me and Mike, I've got two siblings and um, we're all okay. You know, we we're quite positive people and um, for a long time it was quite tough, but we got a good sense of humor and we, I think we've all taken the kind of view of, like life is precious and life's beautiful, we want to live it for dads, and so we're all very healthy, we're very active and I've got understanding of losing somebody in that shock, as in very close friends, but to lose a parent, and that shock I was, I was 50 when, uh when, brett, I was a very, very close friend and he struggled with ptsd.

Speaker 1: 5:41

So it was always sort of a possibility and I've spoke about this before of my own thoughts of it would be easier, you know, to not being here during my own PTSD. But how did that affect you personally in them years afterwards? I mean, this is half your life. You think now you've lived with that half your life. Yeah, what I'd like to sort of get behind is, rather than just speak about losing your dad and obviously the shock of that, but for those people that may have considered it and I'll be honest, yeah, I have considered it before and what I've done is basically gone to bed and thought about it until the next day and left it and then things have changed but for you, as somebody who is now you've lost somebody I like to say, well, I don't like to say it, but I don't like the word suicide Somebody's taken their own life. I know, yeah, it's their choice, but what does that leave behind?

Speaker 3: 6:36

Because obviously it's left a massive space in your life. Oh yeah, massively, massively. And that's the most difficult thing is, I think he did feel like we would be better off without him or we didn't need him, and it's just. It's just not the case. I got upset the other day because I'm being quite vulnerable, quite open on my social media, I'm sort of talking a lot about it, and got quite upset because I was sort of giving up telling the world quite personal stuff about my dad and my sister said, if there's one person out there that is thinking similar thoughts and realizes how much of an effect it will have on family members, maybe they'll think twice about it, because it's affected me so much.

Speaker 3: 7:16

It's affected me so much because I also, um, you know, had to have someone that is your. He was my protector, he was my by everything. So it was, it's so. He's the one that made me feel safe. So if he's not feeling safe and he doesn't, you know it's like, well, it just made every, just everything went out the window, because you're just like, well, if he doesn't feel safe, who's? How am I gonna feel safe in this world? And so, yeah, it was, it was massive. And and, yeah, you're just so angry at him for for going and and thinking that he would be better off.

Speaker 3: 7:49

And you know, it's been interesting this whole journey, as I've been chatting to my mum a lot. We I sort of we put a lid on things for quite a long time because I think that was the only way we we could cope. And I was talking to my mum about it and she was saying we both remember this, actually, different occasions where someone had died from suicide, took their own life and I remember my dad saying because I was like I don't understand why they've done that. That's so sad, and he was like we'll never understand. At that point he didn't understand it, and so it seems like a completely different person to me.

Speaker 3: 8:22

The one that died, and I think also the way he died was just so, so, so, so, so difficult, so difficult to tell people. I think that's my biggest. My biggest thing was and and and I'm still going through it at the minute with this process is I didn't I still don't want it to define him, because you know, he was so much more than that. He. He had a name. His name was Tim and he loved fixing cars and he had a bad dancer and was very sociable and it's like it sort of took the way he died, took over, and that was really difficult for me, and it still is now with this whole process that I'm going through now is is talking about that tim, that how he died, but also trying to keep the other one alive and remembering him for who he was, rather than that other person that died.

Speaker 1: 9:14

So, yeah, apart from, I suppose, anger, like well, you've said anger, what else? How else did it affect you mentally?

Speaker 3: 9:22

oh, I was in a really dark place. I was in a really, really dark place. You just don't trust anyone. It's weird, you just don't trust anyone. I really struggled with like relationships for many, many years. I couldn't really get close to people and I think I also was very angry with him, but I was also very angry with everyone else. So I was like it felt like everyone's problems, you know, with everyone else. So I was like it felt like everyone's problems, you know, I'd go to school and someone would say their cat started maybe crying and I'd lose it. You know, because I was just so angry and I think I'm so glad I got over that because before my dad died it was my goldfish dying or whatever, you know. So, and yeah, I was in a really dark place.

Speaker 3: 9:59

I turned to alcohol. I mean it's difficult. I sometimes, oh my god, you know, but I was a teenager, but I mean it's difficult. Sometimes I'm like, oh, you know, but I was a teenager, but I also was definitely trying to like, yeah, just, I couldn't get, I quit, kept quitting unis. Life was very hard for a long, long time. I couldn't kind of. It just seemed everything just seemed really, I don't know, like irrelevant. I was just like I can't do any of this.

Speaker 1: 10:27

I find it difficult talking about my friends I mean really good friends and even though I knew they were struggling with PTSD and some of the things they'd seen in Afghanistan. And then we went through all this mounting stuff for 10 years and we got on really well, I mean really really well. You know, like brothers really I was a big brother and he'd always ring me and stuff, and then one day I'd seen it on Facebook. I'm like, wow, you know, and it just not absolutely knocked me sideways and because I knew, but I understood why you'd done it right. Um, I understood why you'd done it because of ptsd and I had the same issues of escaping my demons. I think people thought that I was on my way out as well because of, you know, my ptsd and, um, the way that I was acting, yeah, but you just can't comprehend that shock of or I couldn't. I don't want to put words into anyone else's mouth but that feeling that someone is. They were there yesterday.

Speaker 3: 11:14

Yeah, and they're not coming back, and it was there they wanted to go. That's the other thing. It's just like what. You just can't yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:26

Yeah, I think the only way that I sort of come to, I can sort of appease my own thoughts with it, because you are upset, angry, disappointed, and my thing was always like my escapism was always alcohol. Then it is, but the thing would be that, you know, the people that I have known have escaped their demons. It was their choice, I suppose, and whether that's me being selfish I don't know, I'll just come into terms to it. So you said it was in 2007,.

Speaker 3: 11:51

you said yeah, yeah, 2007 or 17.

Speaker 1: 11:54

That's no age. Neither is it really to lose a parent at any hour. I mean, it's a difficult age. It's a difficult age if you don't lose a parent. It's a difficult age, just teenage. But at that time, at that sort of era, mental health again was not at the forefront that it is now. It was very much sort of buried. That's the sort of time that I in fact it is 2007,. That's when I sort of made a conscious effort to come out of my continuous drinking and just say am I allowed to swear while you're on, katie?

Speaker 3: 12:27

Yeah, that's the time.

Speaker 1: 12:32

That's the time, I think that's the time that I just decided to say fuck you to the man the fuck up crowd. You know what I mean. And that's when I set off on my mountain world, and then it was a bit weird. So yeah, oh God, what a story. So so sad.

Speaker 2: 12:48

I lost my father about well 2019. He didn't kill himself, but he didn't look after himself. So I kind of always have the bad feeling that he could have changed something. You know, if he really wanted to. I guess you never get over it, do you? It's kind of deep in there and you know you might be feeling better one day about it, but then it always comes back and you know, and hits you and in the randomest of moments, you know, I can go for a walk and then suddenly I get a memory and then it's just really odd. Do you feel the same?

Speaker 3: 13:20

Oh my God, yeah, oh my God, yeah, I cried at Jumanji. I cried at Jumanji the other day because Robin Williams looks a bit like my dad and he doesn't really, but I just, you know, I just it's, it's, it's bananas and and I cried the other day. Um, I'm crying a lot at the minute because a lot of this is bringing up stuff, but I'm sort of embracing it because I feel stronger than I did before. But yeah, like, oh my god, yeah, and you know, I cried the other day because it's really sunny and beautiful and cool, and I just had a really big cry because I was like you're not, you're not going to see this. You know, like, and that's that's what gets me sometimes is like new, new chapters, new things, like me, I know he wasn't there at my graduation and you know there's, there's, there's, there's there's times where you're like you know, um, and when, and when I just had to cry the other day because I was like life's so beautiful that it's. I wish you could have seen how beautiful it can be.

Speaker 3: 14:19

Yeah, so, yeah, no I feel yeah and and like sometimes and in a for inappropriate like times where you do not want to be crying. You know, like stuff like this, I can hold it together when it's like weird because you're talking about it, but then you know just be like something random on the tv or someone says something and you're just like, yeah, well, you just sat in the pub and then just this one conversation just sets you off and yeah, yeah yeah, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3: 14:44

I'm sorry lost your dad. Losing people is just a whole, you know. You're just not prepared forever, I don't think, however old you are. You know, because my dad's parents, oh, you know, I got to see everybody's. Everybody broke, you know, and just in different ways. Like I wanted to talk about it, I want to talk about my dad. I didn't want to talk about the way he died, but I just wanted to talk about my dad and have photos and I wanted everything around me of him. But my grandparents and my uncle, my dad's brother, couldn't see a photo of him and I couldn't talk about him. So it was very difficult and weird how different everybody's grief gets.

Speaker 2: 15:20

Because everyone kind of copes in their own way. I think my mum really coped really differently and my sister coped again very differently from me, whereas I kind of put a wall up and kind of pretended it didn't happen because I felt like I had to sort things out and I was dragging it along with me for like years. Actually, I went to a session with Charlie with the sound bath and I completely broke into bits and had to walk out. I think, yeah, everyone's different. I guess you've got to respect that as well.

Speaker 1: 15:52

Yeah exactly this is to both of you. Actually, have either of you had any treatment, or Seb will bottle everything up, I know that, and he works through, works harder and harder and harder and puts himself under more stress. But one day, my continual bleating and nagging him, we did get to the sound bath and it was really good and it was good to see Seb let go of some emotion. But to both of you have you ever had any treatment for this sort of bereavement, either counselling or any other modalities?

Speaker 3: 16:24

I have. I've never quite found anything that's worked, and sometimes I have. I've had counseling sessions where I don't want to talk about my dad because I'm like this isn't about him, this is about me wanting to move forward. You know my anxiety or my lack of confidence in like work or whatever. Some therapists get really over a bit like, oh you know, oh, your dad did this, then that must be all of your. That's why you've got all these problems and they put it down to that and it's like, well, some of it, yes, but a lot of it, no.

Speaker 3: 16:54

You know, it's just stuff I've had since I was a kid, you know not being confident at school and stuff. So sorry to answer your question, I have, but I just haven't found stuff working until I actually went on a bike ride last year on a tandem with a guy called Zanny he lost his sister to suicide and honestly it was the best therapy I've had. Like just there's something about being outside, not staring at someone face to face in a white room and then judging you. It was just a very and there was silence and that's what's really sparked all of this for me anyway.

Speaker 1: 17:26

So, yeah, outdoor therapy, something in it so you don't get anywhere with it, have you?

Speaker 2: 17:34

thought about it. No, I have thought about it, but no, I mean, I do like the outdoors and I think the outdoors help me when I, you know, when I go for a walk and stuff, like you said, I bottle it up and I still do it and I know my faults. I kind of accept them.

Speaker 1: 17:48

Maybe one day, yeah, I'm not pointing out a spot said it's just that we care about you and um, yeah, so, but we're here to share these. This is why we're doing this, isn't it? And sharing information. I know we've got, I mean, the podcast started by just wanting to share information of multiple modalities and treatments and basically we're outdoor. We have an outdoor emphasis on account of my journey, which was, you know, accidentally recovering from PTSD or partially recovering from PTSD through the outdoors and the stimulation there, and now it's sort of brought a bit of meaning back in my life so from going from like therapy's never been very good for me.

Speaker 3: 18:29

I think just talking to someone that isn't in your family, it's just something. There's something. We're not all friends. I think it's just because you feel like a burden, right? You don't want to tell people, you don't make people sad, you don't tell people weird stuff. You don't want to open up and like make people feel weird, you know, and so or trigger your family yeah, it's difficult.

Speaker 2: 18:48

Yeah, I tell my friends the odd bits and you know the funny stories and I keep the fun side alive and I can get away with that. But when it comes to emotions I literally just cut off, even with my sister and my mum, because I can see how emotional they are. I don't want to burden them with my emotions, so I just kind of just to myself. But, yeah, you're right, maybe talking to someone who's not in your friend circle might be easier, and I can see how that would be easier.

Speaker 3: 19:11

I just work instead. Yeah, just pull it up and hide it. Yeah, I went to a grief workshop actually and that was bizarre but very interesting, just like a place where everyone was just talking about their loss, and yeah, I think it was quite therapeutic in a way that was a kind of similar thing that we went to, didn't we?

Speaker 2: 19:32

although it wasn't quite a grief workshop, it was like a general workshop with like loads of meditation and sound baths, and but then we did kind of a grief moment where everyone who lost their parent kind of stepped in the middle, and I was one of them, and that's when I started breaking down. I was just like oof, I couldn't feel it, but yeah, and that actually really helped. Since then I've felt much better.

Speaker 3: 19:56

Yeah, you obviously needed it. I found writing actually really helped. Like, I was so angry and I had, so I just didn't know where to put all my feelings. I ended up just writing, writing, writing, writing. I don't even look back in the notes ever, but I found that so helpful because I ended up being all that anger was just coming out in weird ways and drinking. I'm glad it helped you. I'm glad you're not bottling up too much.

Speaker 2: 20:21

Thanks to Charlie for taking me there.

Speaker 1: 20:24

It was good. It was good, it was good. I mean, I thought it was weird, wasn't it? Because when you did the anger or people were expressing anger, I didn't have anger. And it was a realization that I didn't have anger. I was in the middle and I just felt sorrow. For some reason. That was a great burden of sorrow. But anyway, what we sort of touched on there is different ways and different ways that people handle things, and also there's so many different modalities. Now, you know, we spoke there about sound baths and meditation, or there might be therapy and psychology and things like that, but it's not one size fits all, is it, and it might be that you could be trying a couple of different things. Shall we move on, if you want to? Or I'm quite happy to carry on with this, do you? Would you want to move on to the challenge?

Speaker 3: 21:10

because, oh yes, I thought you were gonna watch out.

Speaker 1: 21:13

What's this challenge? You put that out of your mind there, didn't you? Because? If you explain to the listeners and probably viewers what the challenge is and we'll go. We've already explained some of why you're doing it. I think I can sort of guess that you're doing it because of that sort of light bulb moment you had on the tandem. Really yeah, possibly yeah, and there's a lot of modalities in there that we can talk about if you like. So, yeah, yeah, four thousand miles on a push bike yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 21:38

Well, it's kind of beautiful thinking about the. I put a lot of pressure on myself with work, with, with everything, and, and I put a lot of pressure myself. When my dad passed away, I wanted to do something. I felt very helpless, like I couldn't save him and I just I just wanted to do something. But I had an idea in my head that I wanted to do a challenge, because that's what I I know I could do. That makes sense. So I was like, right, I want to do a challenge. But everything seems so because my dad was so important to me. Everything seems so like like I wanted to do the swim around the whole world because he was that important to me. And then so I never did anything because it was just unattainable, because I wanted it to be so big.

Speaker 3: 22:21

And then when I joined Zanny, this guy on the tandem, I kept saying to him ah, it was a. It was just like the most cathartic thing I've ever done, because I've never spoken to anybody else apart from my family who had lost someone to suicide. So I was just like and he found me quite odd because I was like very excitable, I was very like you know, oh my god and I wanted to talk to him because I had just I hadn't. I broke down afterwards, but at the time I was just so like in awe of meeting someone else and being able to have a safe space to talk about it, because I kind of couldn't before and I kept saying to him I wish I did something like this, I wish I did something like this. And he kept saying to me well, well, why don't you? And obviously that kind of just kind of kept ticking away in my in my head and I just thought, yeah, and I'm in a, I'm in a kind of you know, I haven't got kids, I, I'm in a job, I'm kind of ready to like maybe move on from it, because it's based in New Zealand, and so it just felt like everything kind of aligned and I felt like maybe this is my time and I felt like a lot stronger talking about dad and how he died and and it's been really interesting because actually, um, yeah, I might keep calling it my journey. Like I feel like I've been on a journey even before the bike ride, because I'm sort of like discovering so much about mental health and charities and yeah, it's been, it's been very interesting.

Speaker 3: 23:43

But the reason why I chose or want to do cycle and swims is is because for me, when I was in a dark place and feeling very, very sad, my what saved me or what I don't know if that'd be dramatic what saved me but what helped was was being active. So if I could go for a swim or a cycle or a run, it was my meditation. You know, I tried meditation, wasn't very good at it and it and it and it made me feel better, and so I then became sort of obsessed with sport, and my siblings are the same now. We all just have our own little stuff sport, we that we do, and and I just want to kind of I want people to join me on it as well.

Speaker 3: 24:23

I don't want it to be this heroic solo mission.

Speaker 3: 24:25

I really want people to join in when they can for either a dip in sea or or a bit on the bike, because I kind of want to show people how good it makes you feel, like if, if you know my mom, she hasn't been on a bike in years but you know she's going to come and join me and I hope at the end of it she feels like you know if the endorphins.

Speaker 3: 24:44

She's been outside and and I hope that I can maybe connect people along the way. If I can talk about some mental health charities and and, like you know, for you, for you guys, for example, if I can talk about you guys in our conversation, hopefully someone will hear that that's I'm on a bike ride with or when I'm cycling around the north and I can then pass on you know, um, what you guys are doing and that's kind of, I think connection is a big thing for me. I think my dad potentially lost his community when we moved and his purpose maybe, and I think people like I. I have lots of excuses sometimes for not going out on the bike or for a swim or run, because when I feel grumpy and sad I don't want to do those things, but every time I do I feel a lot better.

Speaker 1: 25:31

So I hope I can advocate, yeah, being outside, being in nature and community you sort of touched over quite loads of different topics that we've discussed about how they're getting on, about the podcast or mentioned before. You know, with this thing, you know, activity straight away, and then the cycling, so bilateral movement. Can I, can I mention a book, seb, uh, the miracle pill. I've mentioned it a couple of times now and it's all about being outside, you know, and it's not just it's, you know, and that thing of overcoming and it's someone that I would diagnose with ptsd and depression. But I think the ptsd sort of overrode the depression. But sometimes I'd be off like a ferrari with no one driving, I'd just be sat in the passenger seat, but when the depression you just couldn't get off the sofa, you know. But then actually, well, seven you, me in them times as well, so they were quite exciting. I look back and say exciting. But some of it once a great, you know, and not leaving house for two or three days and things like. And I know people do struggle a lot, you know, with depression and we spoke to, we spoke to a lot of people about depression, getting outside and that taking that first step, yeah, so for you to be spreading that world yourself is, yeah, fantastic.

Speaker 1: 26:43

So where I mean this is an opinion, because I'm not a scientist I think it'll do it well to good. You know, and, like you say, you're on a journey. Anyway, you've come to a journey and, funnily enough, I came up with an idea and I did mention it to you. I mentioned it to Seb earlier. I'll mention it to you afterwards, just in case it doesn't come to fruition. But it does involve cycling and it involves distance and it involves a lot of work and and it just popped up and it's something that I want to do and I'm like, yeah, I want to do that. And the reason that I want to do it is because I still have this thing in my head of not being able to save a person Now, and I don't mind saying now I've been having EMDR. If anyone knows that I've forgotten it again, seb, what is it? Eye movement desensitization remedy, oh my God. So it's like unbelievable.

Speaker 3: 27:30

I've heard such good things. Once you get into it, unbelievable. I've heard such good things about it.

Speaker 1: 27:34

And that's how I've sort of tried to come to accept. I couldn't do anything else. You know what I mean. I try my best. This 4,000 miles, are you doing it alone? You said you're going to invite other people on it. I, but you said you're going to invite other people on it. I think it's a fantastic thing you're doing. By the way, are you going to be cycling mainly alone? It's an alone journey, but other people joining you for parts of it. Can people get in touch with you or join you?

Speaker 3: 27:56

Yes, I'd love people to get in touch with me. You know, I'd love people to get in touch with me because I've sort of said in my I'd love people to join me who A a would just love to be on a bike ride with me. But I also want people to join me who are who've maybe lost someone from suicide, or if someone wants to join me who's feeling a bit sad. And I just want to go back to what you were saying. You know, I remember my dad couldn't even get out of bed.

Speaker 3: 28:21

I know that it's, you know, difficult, right, like if people are really severely bad. It's very, you know, I'm very aware that I can't just be like go for a bike ride and everything will be better. You know so. But I know that there's issues within the mental health system and if you can kind of I keep saying it like building blocks, like if you can try and get your your exercise or your active, even if it's just going for like a five minute walk, it helped me and that's what I'm just trying to advocate.

Speaker 3: 28:50

And, um, yes, sorry, back to the bike ride. Yes, people, I'd love people to join me because I think I get a lot of joy out of people and, I think, other people again. It's that connection thing of like I want people to join me. They don't even have to talk about like their mental, their feelings, but if it just comes out on a bike ride in in a nice environment, you know, then it's great yeah, well, we've had andy and alex staniforth, both of great charities that take people out of you know, with mental health issues and very similar.

Speaker 1: 29:20

I've been outdoors and an activity, bilateral movement walking, cycling and I found myself by leading people. People just open up, people just start talking, you know, because they're in a different environment and people getting on with or talking to people that might never have met and getting quite deep. Sometimes I couldn't advocate the outdoors and activity enough for mental well-being and I have no idea where I'd be without it. But then you touched on that there with you know. This brings this question about community and your dad didn't have that, or did he cut himself off from that?

Speaker 3: 29:53

I think and sorry if I'm generalising here, you can correct me if I'm wrong but I do find that men you know, I see it in my brother as well kind of just don't girls seem to. Women seem to have a lot of friends around. They keep their friends close, they talk to their friends a lot. I think my dad when we moved, so he was very close to his parents, my grandparents, and he wasn't with them. He didn't join any clubs. He used to make model airplanes and he used to like go see his mates um, and he used to swim and cycle and that just all stopped. And I think at the time probably just don't think how much you need it, won't realize how much you need it from from an outsider, just watching, that's just how I witnessed stuff.

Speaker 1: 30:35

Yeah, I think loneliness can be quite takes over yeah, there were a big thing about that in the joining COVID. Sorry to mention it yet again on the podcast, but, um, yeah, you know the effects of loneliness, knocking, knocking time off people's lives, whether they you know, whether they're in good health or not um, you know that he's sort of in uh, ever decreasing circle and I suppose with my own I I have community, but I didn't really because I was just going out boozy with anyone.

Speaker 1: 31:03

You know what I mean. So, and that's. That's a different thing. You know, that's deflection. Yeah, and, like said, back in that time, 2007, we were talking about PTSD and things like that because of what was going on with the armed forces. But other mental health, you know, a guy saying oh, I've got depression, it was ridiculed if someone said they had anxiety or depression and they had a couple of days on the sick. You know it's all just tossing it off, taking a few days off. So I think podcasts like this with yourself are vitally important, you know, because we've still and I still think we've got that stigma. You know, I think I'm often looked at as a bit weird because I do talk openly about my own mental health. It's a continual journey. It's up and down, fortunately moving forward. That was it, I mean.

Speaker 3: 31:54

I'm so glad and I do get a bit upset sometimes with the mental health system and the NHS. You know, I might go into that later. But I then see the flip side, which is like I've got male friends that talk about their mental health a bit more and I think previously it wasn't spoken about at all. So it was a bit like oh, I'm having these thoughts, I feel weird and also it's it's like knowing that's okay, that's kind of part of life. You know that it's okay to sometimes feel down and it's when it's like you're not coming back up, that's when you want to talk about it and and I am really glad that there's men.

Speaker 3: 32:31

I heard this beautiful podcast. He just said eight minutes. All it takes is eight minutes with a friend to make me feel better. So this Simon Sinek, I think he just said that he has a WhatsApp group with his friends. If someone says eight minutes, it just means they need a bit, they need a bit of time. You know they need that eight minutes and that's sometimes all it takes to help someone out exactly, yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:54

So just recently we can all get ranty if you want. So it was mel stride, tory worker pensions minister said in an interview with the telegraph mental health culture, culture had gone too far and that work is good for mental health. As in, get back to work.

Speaker 1: 33:11

Now but this is, you know. That shows, as someone that's been through you know some really bad times. That shows to me, in fact, my first experience of the government and mental health was when they signed me off for sick and they'd signed me off for sick after six months of being off and I scored PTSD. I scored 30 out of 30 and 29 out of 30 for depression. But then when I went for the government assessment because I was claiming, uh, whatever it was back in 2000, I could stand up, I could sit down, I could write my name. No, you don't get anything else unless you go to work and that's you know. And at that time I was on medication and having horrible flashbacks and some very nasty dreams. To be fair, that's my run. How does that make you feel, kate, with stuff like that coming from government?

Speaker 3: 33:54

I just don't even know where to start. I don't even know where to start with that. That's where I get angry and upset because it's like that's the top right. If the people at the top are saying like, no, you know, I'm not going gonna have sick days, and I think the pressure for people pressure and life is is is killer right. The pressure of having to go to work and having to provide and not having any respite and you know, burnout is huge.

Speaker 1: 34:21

So yeah, I mean, it's just ridiculous, isn't it? I I'm self-employed and I can pick and choose my work, but getting that work in and getting work, that's enough pay to take enough downtime. And me and Seb do put a lot of pressure on ourselves with a podcast, but it's something we want to do Even today, driving back about three days off, sort of and I told you the other day I'd left my work phone. I come home and there's like nearly 200 WhatsApp messages. You're like I can't cope with this, you know, and it's just constant, the intrusions and, like you say, the workload of just of society. Anyway, should we stop ranting there? Seven, get back to the well I'm just gonna join in.

Speaker 1: 35:00

Go on, go on, sev. You have a run. This is, this is rare.

Speaker 2: 35:04

I feel you both I mean especially when charlie said you know you come back to 200 messages and when I was in my previous job about seven, eight months ago, got to a point where I didn't want to take holiday because I knew how much it would affect my days coming back to work. I don't want to be off because when I come back it's going to be so bad that I'm not going to be able to cope with the pressure that I'm going to have when I come back. And surely when you want to book holiday you should actually enjoy it. All you're doing is, three, four days before you get to work, starting to stress out, checking your email. So you're like, oh my god, I'm gonna have to do this, and you're already at work while you're on holiday and it's just like it's this vicious cycle and you can't get out of it. It's just society and everyone's involved and everyone's in the same boat.

Speaker 1: 35:46

It doesn't get any easier. I suppose that's why we're here sort of trying to spread information and inspiration and talk about different I've said this before on podcast all these different modalities that I've tried for stress relief and coping with my own mental health and not jumping on that thought that's riding past me. But should I really have to do all that? Should I have to get up and have a cold shower and meditate and grounding and you know I try and look after my diet? So much now cut down on drinking and all this lot of community? And and then you're thinking hang on, this is I'm. The stress relief is over, it's overtaking my work, because and I'm in a fortunate job that I work outdoors but some people aren't, you know. I mean, anyway, is that, is that all those rants done? Do you think then we could go on forever with that?

Speaker 3: 36:32

so if we go back to the challenge, katie, what are you doing it for, a charity in particular, or good question so I didn't think this would be the difficult part, and I have to be really careful when I talk about this because I know there are a lot of charities out there and I know a lot of people are doing good. So I just want to say that first. But I got in touch with a charity I'm not going to name names at all, but I got in touch with a small charity and got quite excited because I kind of made my decision about the plan. And then I got in touch and I wanted to meet up with them because we were in the same vicinity and, yeah, they were busy and and I said I just want five minutes to get to know you and get to know what you're doing and know where the money goes. And, um, they didn't want that.

Speaker 3: 37:20

But what I stand by, or what I hope, is that they're putting the time and energy into people that need it. So you know, I am like fine, but it's sort of in a weird way, it's also opened up my I've been doing a lot of research. I've been doing a lot of research, I've been doing a lot of chatting to charities and I've had lots of chats with the NHS, and so I feel like it's kind of part of it is. I've sort of learned a lot along the way. Um, so, no, I haven't got a charity. I thought I would by this point and I think maybe I'm being too, um, maybe I want too much. You know, maybe it's it's just like so important to me, so important to me that I'm really struggling to decide and to choose.

Speaker 3: 38:03

And so what I want originally I wanted to to donate half half the money to cornwall, um cornwall charity and then half to a bigger charity. And I've had lots of conversations with the bigger charities and it seems like the smaller charities do things for community, which is great, and then the bigger charities I hope tackling like big issues, like government stuff like that. But yeah, I, it's difficult. I don't want to name names because, again, these charities I know are helping some people, but I sort of I'm quite naive to the mental health world a little bit. So a lot of my questions to people have been like they're like that's a silly question, but I'm like, well, I don't know. You know, I don't know how it works anymore. So I still ask some charities about where their money goes and it goes on like phone lines and campaigns and I'm like, oh okay, what happens after someone rings up? What? What? Someone rings up and they say they're feeling suicidal. What happens then? And they're like, oh, nothing.

Speaker 3: 39:03

I'm like I don't why what you know like and so it just kind of shocks me, some of the stuff. And then, um, yeah, the NHS waiting list, and I know that's because of funding. But then I was asking someone at the NHS, oh what? Or someone comes in and they say they're feeling suicidal. What happens? They're like, well, they'll go on the waiting list or they'll get medication. And I'm like, well, do you not direct them to people in their community, do you? You know? And they're like some people do, some people don't. And I'm just like what? Like how can sometimes being suicidal isn't enough reason to get medical, medical, um, clinical support?

Speaker 3: 39:38

and I'm like I do just a lot of it just baffles me. So sorry I'm not really answering your question. I'm. I think I've made a decision where I'm actually going to use the bike ride as a way to talk to people about charities that have helped them, and I think that's going to be my way to, because it could be really easy just to choose a big charity and be done with it. But I really want to feel like I'm making a difference somehow, making a difference somehow, and so I think my, my idea is just to talk to people and understand where, where that what's helped them and where where I can help. Yeah, so I really wanted a phone on the bridge.

Speaker 3: 40:16

On a bridge on the A30, my sister stopped someone from jumping okay on New Year's Day, which obviously triggered a lot for her bless her, her and so I then me and her started thinking about you can get these phone boxes that ring straight through to Samaritans. There's a lot of red tape about that sort of stuff and yeah, it's been a funny, yeah, it's been quite a journey with trying to figure this out.

Speaker 1: 40:44

I'm just trying to look there at NHS waiting lists, but I don't know whether to bother because this is even more depressing.

Speaker 3: 40:51

This is, you know, it's outrageous, really yeah, this is my sister, the person that my sister stopped from jumping. That in itself has started a lot of conversations, because basically, my sister stopped her from jumping and she was saying that she was on a waiting list and she told people she felt suicidal and she just felt like no one cared. And so I just was like I just feel like there's a few gaps. You know, fair enough, the NHS don't have funding, but can there be some sort of program where they put people into the community? And I don't know and this is why I struggle to talk about this sort of stuff, because I don't know. I don't know, I'm not very up to date with how all of this works.

Speaker 1: 41:34

But I think this is where something like what you're doing will be raising awareness of mental health issues and by speaking of, first of all, your bereavement and then how you've sort of come around to that you're already doing that. You're already doing something anyway. So I mean, we've learned so much during the process and the process of running this podcast and sometimes it's quite upsetting when you read about like a quarter of a million children on NHS children you know this is where we should be getting straight in and having either some intervention or, you know, some advice, because these issues with children can last for a lifetime. I mean, to be fair, you were 17, so you're a young adult. Yeah, my little brother, to be losing a parent like that.

Speaker 3: 42:22

My little brother and sister.

Speaker 1: 42:23

So how old was your brother then?

Speaker 3: 42:25

So I was 17. He must have been 11. Wow, yeah. So you know he's like it's just sad, every you know, because I think he idolised my dad, yeah, and I think you know, going back to.

Speaker 1: 42:41

Well, I don't want me to go back to it, but I think it probably is the same from my side that you know, like my friends Brett and Si I mean Si was a very successful man and just lived for today, you know, and wrote Racing and then to find that they've gone, it just leaves such a massive hole in your own life and I used to think sometimes that I would be selfish by thinking I miss them. You know what I mean, because they don't want to be here, but maybe if they appreciated how much they were loved and adored really, they're not in pain anymore either.

Speaker 3: 43:13

You know, that's what helped me, is they're not in pain anymore either you know that's that helped me is they're not? No, they're not in pain anymore.

Speaker 1: 43:16

Yeah, well, this is it. I mean it's, you know, with a uh, with a friend, brett, his dad is, he's escaped his demons, he gave them the duck, really, so I've got to accept that that was his decision, you know, um, although it's very, you know, it's very sad, back to the ride. So, where you go, which way are you going? Have you got any plans? Or, yeah, are you going to do a weather dependent? No, I mean cornwall's. Cornwall's a long way from yorkshire, you know yeah, I know, and it's um yeah, and it's funny doing my route planning I.

Speaker 3: 43:45

So I start on the first of june and I just plucked that out of the air and now it's coming up really quickly but, I um, and I'm starting from um, cornwall, but I've been a bit stupid because I'm not starting from my doorstep, which is by on the coast. I've decided to start at Land's End and oh, cool, yeah, but just be a, because it's like a bit of a yeah, I'm just like, and it's so funny. I'm like, oh, you know, I'm trying to get my friends to come and start with me and they're like what, how are we going to get to Land's End? Like, oh, yeah. So I completely shot myself in the foot with that.

Speaker 3: 44:21

But I have this lovely memory. My mum is actually the crazy sporty person. She biked from John O'Groats to Land's End Well, sorry, land's End and then we've got a nice photo of all of us, the whole family, at Land's End. So I just had like a nice memory. That's why I want to start there, and then I'll be going up the west coast. So I'll be Newquay, bude, wales, and then Scotland and I'm going to be doing the, and then Scotland and I'm going to be doing the Hebrides.

Speaker 1: 44:58

Okay.

Speaker 3: 44:59

Yeah, wow, yeah. So just because I said to someone, I was like, oh, that's not technically like on the coast, and someone was like, well, there's no rules, kate, you can do what you want. So I was like, yeah, right.

Speaker 1: 45:12

And then Newcastle, and then yeah, you're york wow, and how long are you thinking it's going to take you?

Speaker 3: 45:20

so I think it's going to take me about three to four months. So I'm I'm in york at the minute on my route planning and this is what's. I'm being a bit slow with my route planning. I would have liked to. I need to finish, um, but I I've just got to york and scarborough about and I'm about beginning of august okay so I don't know whether it's going to take me a month to do the rest.

Speaker 2: 45:44

But yeah, so with your route planning, will you be quite strict of where you are and how will people know where to join you when? Have you got a live tracker? Have you got a webpage that is running?

Speaker 3: 45:57

Good question. So I am going to be quite strict with my days because of people meeting, trying to meet up with people. So I'm having a rest day a week because also that's a good buffer If something goes wrong. I've got at least a day that I can play around with. I've already got people that I've booked. You know I've booked accommodation with for north wales. So you know I have to be pretty, pretty strict, which is nerve-wracking, and I'm doing about 80k a day, maybe a bit more, sometimes a bit less. Um, but I keep saying to people if people want to join me, I'm taking all day and they don't have to do the whole day with me.

Speaker 3: 46:34

They can kind of like meet me and then kind of get go to a certain point and get the train back. There's ways around it, so. So I am gonna be getting a tracker and also I'm setting up something at the minute I'm just taking. It's taking a long time, but I'm trying to set up a kind of google sheets where people can let me know what, where, when, if they'd like to join me, and I will be having a website as well. My lovely sister is helping me build a one-page thing. So yeah, lots of ways to follow. And Instagram. I'll be updating everyone on Instagram as well.

Speaker 1: 47:04

Where are you, Seb? In August, Should we go do a day of cycling?

Speaker 2: 47:06

Yeah, early August. Early August, yeah, I'll probably be around, not end of August, though.

Speaker 1: 47:16

I'm going to India. I've not given you time off, I've not seen a holiday slip yet. We'll have to have words after the podcast. This is a shock to me.

Speaker 3: 47:23

Yeah, I can actually tell you when I'll be. I don't know whereabouts you guys are, but I've got Scarborough, grimsby, newcastle, east Newton.

Speaker 1: 47:36

We'll have to follow her. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll follow her. Make sure you've got a lock on your bike in Scarborough. It's all I can say.

Speaker 3: 47:42

I've surfed in Scarborough.

Speaker 1: 47:45

Oh really, Wow. Well, be careful with the water as well because Yorkshire water aren't known for their cleanliness at the minute. Plenty of nuffles on cleanliness at the minute. Neat is cool. That's a whole new podcast. We are going to do one on surfing and surf therapy actually, so that's sort of lined up.

Speaker 2: 48:02

Are you excited? Are you scared? What are your emotions about this journey that you're going to embrace over the next few?

Speaker 3: 48:11

months. At the moment, I'm feeling very, very, very overwhelmed. I'm very nervous because of the planning. It's the planning that really throws me. I'm like you know, I've got such a lot, a lot of pressure on myself like I really want to meet people. I really want to, like you know. So it's just the planning is is quite a lot of the minutes.

Speaker 3: 48:30

At the moment I'm kind of like not wanting to let people down. I want people to join me, I want to raise awareness. A lot of that pressure at the minute, um, and I'm like what? What if it doesn't? What I don't raise any money and what if I don't? So the moment of being quite anxious.

Speaker 3: 48:44

But I'm really excited about being on the bike, of being free and being everything is so, again, it's ironic, I'm being stressed and anxious at the minute and I'm advocating to not feel like that. But I know, as soon as I'm on my bike with nothing, and I'm going to be camping, you know, and I'm going to be outdoors and I know and I'm going to be getting in the sea every day, it's going to be. Oh, it's going to be incredible. Like I'm not going to have be on my phone that much and I know it's going to be so good for my mental health and, oh, it's just going to be, and it's going to be quite emotional. I think it's going to be very, because I'm going to be on my own and I'm going to be with my thoughts a lot and I'm going to feel sad that my dad's not there and that he's missing this, and going to be sad that he won't see.

Speaker 3: 49:26

You know, my home, the UK, I'm going to explore. I've never seen so much of the. I've never. You know, I've been traveling lots but I've never seen my home this much. So, oh, it's going to be incredible and I hope I'm going to meet some wonderful people along the way and hear some amazing stories and I think it's going to be yeah, I think it's going to be amazing. It's going to be coming back. That's going to be weird. It's like finishing and going now what you know, I'm scared as well. It's like I'm going to be on my own for bits and it's going to probably hurt and probably, when it's raining and cold, it's probably I'm probably going to not want to get in a tent and bring it on. That's life ups and downs absolutely, yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1: 50:02

What I've got to say is the best of luck with it. We wish you the best because obviously this is having. Like I say right back at the start, it's brilliant that you've got in contact with us just to let us know. I think we should keep our listeners updated as to where you are and things, so we can do that and can share your uh updates on our social media. If you'd like us to do that, that's not a problem. Yeah, we're in touch with a few people now. I'm sure there must be some on the way right radio station, local radios that would want to talk to you and things like that.

Speaker 1: 50:33

Probably I should probably sort that out. It's just an idea, If you wish. That is if you wish, Because I do like to say I think at the start of it it should be a journey for yourself, if you don't mind me saying that as well.

Speaker 3: 50:49

No, totally, totally agree, and I think, yeah, I'm very aware of of that and I think that's why it's quite nice, because I think it's going to be a bit mix of everything. It's going to be very much like me on my own thinking about everything and, you know, yeah, all the feels with my own stuff, but then also, um, I hope I can meet someone and that's maybe lost, someone from suicide or is is in a bit of a dark place, and hopefully they can feel inspired or feel connection or something. You know, even if it's just I keep saying to myself like I keep wanting to change the world and I might not be able to change the world, but you know, if a little bit somewhere helps, as I spoke to you on the phone call, you said before we did this, what we found with the podcast is just by talking, you are already doing something.

Speaker 1: 51:33

We've had a number of times quite spooky, haven't I Haven't? I said where we've been on about, right, let's do another five podcasts and we're sacking it off because of all the hard work and the stress it gives us. But then someone will pop up and say, you know, it's brilliant what you're doing, because you're actually talking and I'm listening to that and I'm talking to other people. So it's wonderful to have somebody, somebody else on board on the same. You know, there's thousands of people now, thousands of different charities that are all moving in the same direction. If only the government would pick it up.

Speaker 2: 52:02

It's like another dig well, we're stronger together, aren't we?

Speaker 1: 52:07

We are stronger together. Yeah, brilliant.

Speaker 3: 52:09

I just read what you said, sam, about stronger together. I think that's the thing we're all after, the same thing and you know, know, if there's not necessarily not to give up hope, if if one thing doesn't work, then keep trying other things. You know, and that's what you know outdoors, being outdoors and being active has helped me. So if we can help people do that or I can help people do that if they're on a waiting list, then at least it's moving in a direction.

Speaker 1: 52:35

I think your adventure will spiral and get bigger and bigger as you go on. And again back to that. You know, if something's not working for one person, it's maybe not. They've got other things to try, other things. There's so many things out there now for stress relief and mental health that you know it doesn't have to be expensive, does it?

Speaker 3: 52:53

No, just, getting mental health. That you know it doesn't have to be expensive, does it?

Speaker 1: 53:00

you know, just getting outside and getting that getting that vitamin d and green light and listening to running water and, oh, getting the sea looking after yourself, yeah, getting in the sea, yeah, yeah, all the best again. Thank you for coming on. I think we should. Uh, I wonder if we can try and do some updates around on your journey yeah especially.

Speaker 1: 53:13

We'll have to do some little snippets. We could do some little snippets and try and see how that works. But yeah, it'd be good to keep up with you and support you on your journey. So thank you for joining us, Thank you for getting in touch with us and thank you for what you're going to do. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2: 53:28

Thank you, Katie.

Speaker 3: 53:30

I wish you all the best. Thanks guys, thanks so much and thanks for having me. Thanks also for you guys for doing all this. I know it's like, like you said, this isn't your full-time job, so you know the fact that I found you guys and I'm like, yes, more people talking about this, it's good and yeah, please come join me. Even if it's for a difference or cycle, please come join me.