Episode 39 In the Footsteps of Marijohn Wilkin: A Country and Gospel Legend
Dec 03, 2023
Randy
Brace yourself for an episode that unlocks the door to the world of a lesser-known yet pivotal figure in the country and gospel music scene, Marijohn Wilkin. Prepare your hearts as Co-host Dave Hogan brings you face to face with his personal encounter with Wilkin at a DJ convention. This remarkable woman, fondly referred to as the "Den Mother of Music Row," left an indelible mark on him, and we're convinced her life story will have a similar impact on you too. We'll also dive into a thought-provoking conversation around wealth and personal identity, inspired by the words of F. Scott Fitzgerald.
Ever wondered about the stories behind some of the most iconic country and gospel songs? Let's unravel the narrative threads woven into Wilkin's hit song "One Day at a Time," co-written with Kris Kristofferson. This episode promises to be a journey of discoveries, tracing the influences and inspirations that led to other successful songs like "I Have Returned." As we explore Wilkin's collaboration with other legendary songwriters and the enduring influence of her work on the music scene, we aim to give you an enriched appreciation of her legacy. Get ready to be swept away by the rhythm and stories of country music and the remarkable life of Marijohn Wilkin.
Brace yourself for an episode that unlocks the door to the world of a lesser-known yet pivotal figure in the country and gospel music scene, Marijohn Wilkin. Prepare your hearts as Co-host Dave Hogan brings you face to face with his personal encounter with Wilkin at a DJ convention. This remarkable woman, fondly referred to as the "Den Mother of Music Row," left an indelible mark on him, and we're convinced her life story will have a similar impact on you too. We'll also dive into a thought-provoking conversation around wealth and personal identity, inspired by the words of F. Scott Fitzgerald.
Ever wondered about the stories behind some of the most iconic country and gospel songs? Let's unravel the narrative threads woven into Wilkin's hit song "One Day at a Time," co-written with Kris Kristofferson. This episode promises to be a journey of discoveries, tracing the influences and inspirations that led to other successful songs like "I Have Returned." As we explore Wilkin's collaboration with other legendary songwriters and the enduring influence of her work on the music scene, we aim to give you an enriched appreciation of her legacy. Get ready to be swept away by the rhythm and stories of country music and the remarkable life of Marijohn Wilkin.
Speaker 1:
Welcome everybody to Hot Mike with Houston and Hogan. This week Dave's been researching a name that may not be familiar it wasn't to me Mary John Wilkins. Let's listen in as Dave tells us who that is and how important she was to country music. Hello everyone and welcome to Hot Mike with Houston and Hogan. Dave Hogan, how you doing.
Speaker 2:
Let me tell you about the very rich. They're different from you and me. Where are you?
Speaker 1:
going. I'm doing. Where are you going? I have a notebook.
Speaker 2:
And when I hear a quote or read a quote, something somebody said, I write it down in this little book. And we're going to be talking about Mary John Wilkin in just a few minutes. She was called the Den Mother of Music Row and all the contributions that she made to the music industry and there are a lot of people like Mary John Wilkin that maybe the average person would not even know the name that had such a tremendous impact and influence in Nashville. We're going to talk about Mary John.
Speaker 1:
I'm one of the ones. Actually, we got together a couple of weeks ago and we're going to do this show about Mary John Wilkin and you forgot your notes and we instead did something else. But here we are. We've talked about Mary John Wilkin so much and I've had the opportunity and I haven't taken it to look up who is Mary John Wilkin. But I didn't do it on purpose. I want you to tell us who is Mary John Wilkin.
Speaker 2:
I'll tell you who she is in just a moment. But back to that quote. I have a notebook and I write down things when I run into something I want to try to remember, and that's an F Scott Fitzgerald quote from his book the Rich Boy. What is that quote? Again, Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me. That's an opening line in one of F Scott Fitzgerald's books called the Rich Boy. Have you ever known anybody?
Speaker 1:
who's really rich, who's rich no? And they are different from you. That's true, that's very true. I don't recall, I don't think. I Well, maybe one, maybe one Would.
Speaker 2:
Dolly Parton count. I know Dolly Would she count Absolutely.
Speaker 1:
She just wrote a check for a million dollars to the Salvation Army's bell ringing campaign.
Speaker 2:
What an American treasure. What a world treasure Dolly Parton is. Did you see her show at halftime in Dallas?
Speaker 1:
Somewhere around that halftime show is when she stopped to write that check. It was done during that performance.
Speaker 2:
And that's one of many big checks that Dolly has written. But I think F Scott Fitzgerald was talking about old money in this book. I haven't read the book, but I've read about it and I think he's talking about people who have and I just read the biography of Elon Musk, the world's richest person. That's big money.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, Now that's big money. And I love to read biographies. That's my favorite kind of reading and somebody said one time to me he liked to read biographies and he said you know, there were four guys got together and wrote a biography of Jesus Matthew, mark, luke and John. He said that and I had never thought of it in that way. That's right. So one of my reading projects is going back and reading the biography of Jesus written by Matthew, mark, luke and John. But I like to read about people and I had known about Mary John Wiffin going to the Disziaki convention in Nashville for years back when it was really a DJ convention and it morphed into fanfare and I don't know what they call it now.
Speaker 1:
CRS country radio seminars.
Speaker 2:
But they started bringing in not just DJs but fans of country music, and so the DJ convention is not now and I've been to this seminar, I think, once or twice but back in the days when it was really a DJ convention for country music DJs, you got to talk to just about every country music artist who was prominent at that time Mary John Wilkin was one of them that I had a chance to.
Speaker 2:
I didn't really get a one on one interview with Mary John. It was kind of like a press conference where probably a dozen music people DJs and promoters and so forth were in a room and asking questions of Mary John Wilkin because and the book apparently is out of print I have not been able to find it and I don't remember who wrote it, but there was a biography of Mary John that came out about this time and that was the purpose of this news conference was to promote the book and I learned so much about Mary John Wilkin. Okay, we have listeners who are probably saying who are they talking about? Who is Mary John Wilkin? You probably know the song Long Black Vale. She walks these hills in a long black veil. It's my grave when the night winds wail, or something along those lines. Yeah, lefty Frizzell.
Speaker 1:
Oh, I thought so.
Speaker 2:
And it was a resurgent song for him, because Lefty back in the early 50s had a tremendous number of hits, and in one of Merle Haggard's songs he talks about Lefty and Hank and Lefty were on the jukeboxes because Hank Williams and Lefty Frizzell were the top artists who had music on jukeboxes. Well, mary John Wilkin wrote that song Long Black Vale. She co-wrote it, I think, with Danny Dill. I'm not sure of that, but I believe it was Danny Dill who co-wrote the song with her. And so she not only is a great songwriter, but her life story is really interesting. She was born in Texas, born into a family. They weren't full-time musicians, but her father played the fiddle and he was kind of a local music, had another job.
Speaker 2:
And like you, Like a lot of people in our community now. You know these people who are in the music business but they have a day job, so to speak, as it's called. Don't give it. You know that old expression don't give up your day job.
Speaker 2:
So that was her father and her family they were, and so Mary John had that kind of upbringing where she was around music and she became a very accomplished pianist. She went to Hardin Simmons University, which is a Christian university down in Texas, and then she went to work for Red Foley, which I think probably that was her first professional job. But her life story separate from the music. She wrote hit songs and we're going to talk about her biggest hit here in just a moment, a song everybody will know. But she helped a lot of artists.
Speaker 2:
She wound up after a stint with Red Foley's band, moved to Nashville as a, basically a songwriter. She started a publishing company. She was instrumental in the career of so many people. She became known as the den mother of Music Row Chris Christopherson, johnny Duncan, ed Bruce there's a long list of people that she helped get started in the music business. And Mary John had a cousin who was in the Army with Chris Christopherson and Chris, of course, was making music on the side while he was in the Army and had some songs he had written. The fellow said I've got a cousin in Nashville, why don't you send the songs to her? And so Chris Christopherson sent the songs to Mary John Wilkins, and one of those songs was for the good times. Oh wow, ray Price recorded it.
Speaker 1:
Oh, and had a hit.
Speaker 2:
And that started the career of Chris Christopherson and, as I said, she helped out so many artists get started in country music. And so her life story is what we want to talk about now a little bit. I told you a little bit about her upbringing in Texas, going to college at a Christian University, hardin Simmons, but after a while in Nashville her life, her personal life, began to deteriorate. She fell into deep depression, became an alcoholic, attempted suicide not once but twice. A friend of hers recommended counseling for her and knew a young minister that did counseling. So Mary John, after a lot of consideration and after a lot of plotting from her friends to try to get her life back to normal, after a lot of prodding she went to see this young minister, drove up in a Cadillac, in a mint coat, back when Cadillacs were considered the automobile and of course mint coats aren't that popular anymore.
Speaker 1:
But they were at that time he showed up driving a Cadillac wearing a mint coat.
Speaker 2:
And the counselor said obviously you're not here to talk about money, you don't have any money problems. And she says no, I don't have any money problems, but I got a lot of others. She went into a conversation with the minister, the counselor, about her personal demons, her personal problems, and the counselor said the minister said have you ever thought of thanking God for these problems, thanking God for all these problems? And there's somewhere in the Bible I don't have written down exactly where, but it says in effect I'm sure I'm not quoting it precisely Be thankful, thank you God. And she said why would I give thanks to God for that? And the counselor said well, you're here and these problems are gonna get you back. You're realizing that you need to get back to God. So she went home after that counseling session and wrote a song called One Day at a Time.
Speaker 2:
One Day at a Time, sweet Jesus, and it became a tremendous hit. Yeah, still is really. And still is one of the most successful gospel songs ever. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
She went back and she wrote that song after this counseling session. But she was having a little problem with the opening to the song. She was unhappy, so she picked up the phone and called Chris Christopherson and explained to Chris what she's writing One Day at a Time. Sweet Jesus, you know, in counseling they tell you take life one day at a time, don't look too far down the road, get through today. So she wrote that song, but she wasn't satisfied with the opening. So she called up Chris Christopherson and Chris was married to Rita Coolidge at the time. So Chris and Rita went over to Mary John's house and Chris took a look at what she had written and he came up with the opening of the song, which is I'm only human, I'm just a woman. Remember that opening to that song, yeah.
Speaker 2:
I don't remember exactly how it goes, but that is about all that Chris Christopherson wrote, but if you look at the credits, he's listed as one of the writers. Mary John Wilkins said the song would not be what it is without Chris Christopherson. What is that opening line?
Speaker 1:
One Day at a Time. Sweet Jesus, that's all I'm asking of you. Just give me the strength to do every day what I have to do.
Speaker 2:
Okay now Mary John wrote that part. Read the opening line of the song.
Speaker 1:
I'm only human, I'm just a woman. Help me believe in what I could be and all that I am. Oh, show me the stairway that I have to climb. Lord, for my sake, teach me to take one day at a time.
Speaker 2:
Okay, chris Christopherson is responsible for that opening. Okay, and Mary John insisted on giving him you know co-writer credits for that song. So that song became a big, big song in gospel music and, as a result, mary John turned her life around Really. She turned her life completely around. And she, I guess the way demons is word that's used a lot when you've got a lot of problems she was able to defeat her demons Right and get her life straightened out. And she wrote a lot of other good songs after that. One of them and this is, I think, one of the greatest songs that anybody's ever written in my lifetime it's a song called I have Returned.
Speaker 1:
Oh Yahweh, I have returned yes.
Speaker 2:
I have returned to the God of my childhood. Now think about this. You know there's everybody knows the story of the prodigal son in the Bible, where the prodigal son returns. Mary John wrote this song. She's the. She's a prodigal child and she's returning. Have returned to her.
Speaker 2:
God yeah, the father. Some of the lyrics go like I have returned to the god of my childhood, to the same simple faith as a child I once knew like a prodigal son, I've longed for my loved ones, for the comfort of home and the God I outgrew. I have returned the God of my father, I have returned to the God of Abraham, and so forth a tremendous yeah gospel song.
Speaker 2:
Yes, it is, and I think the Best version. If anybody listening to this podcast wants to listen to this song Maybe you've never listened to it intently you can Google it easily, oh yeah, and find it online and a lot of people have recorded. I have returned, but the best version to listen to is. Bill Gaither did a One of his TV programs homecoming programs called Israel homecoming, and, and many of the gospel greats of that era that time went to Israel, which unfortunately, has been in the news in a In a way that is terrible, as we record this with the war, the, the war with Hamas and God and and and Gaza, but at this time it was peaceful there and they went over and recorded the Israel homecoming and in that Israel homecoming you have the Gaythers and so many of the other great gospel singers and it's like a Congregational seeing. I have returned.
Speaker 1:
Oh, I bet those power, just Google.
Speaker 2:
Bill Gaither Israel, homecoming I.
Speaker 2:
Will and it'll come up, I will listen to the song that Mary John Wilkin wrote called I have returned and I want to return to early in Mary John's career in Nashville and I mentioned the long black veil which she co-wrote with Danny deal that became a hit for lefty for sale re revived his career. Unfortunately, lefty was dealing and dealt with a lot of demons in his lifetime and that was probably the last really big hit that lefty for his hell hand. Another song that Mary John wrote, co-wrote with John D Loudermilk that everybody probably will remember who knows anything about country music song called Waterloo, recorded by stonewall Jackson, was the number one hit, made the top ten in in the pop fields Waterloo by Mary John Wilkin and John D Loudermilk.
Speaker 1:
I didn't realize that she wrote that or co-wrote that. That was a tremendous hit song. I was watching the Marty Stewart show not long ago and Stonewall Jackson was a guest and he did that song.
Speaker 2:
Waterloo.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, where have you Waterloo? I have met my waterloo, yeah everybody meets their waterloo, everybody, everybody.
Speaker 2:
She also wrote Song called cut across shorty. That stuck. He did that song. Yeah, eddie Cochran did it in the pop world a Song called I just don't understand, which became a pop hit for for Anne Margaret and was covered by the Beatles, and I'll bet Mary John made some change on that when the Beatles recorded that song. I Just don't understand a bit. But all all the primarily a Country songwriter, her songs have been recorded by people like Rod Stewart and Mick Jagger. She also Formed a publishing company named after her son, bucky, called Buckhorn music, and Bucky was quite a is quite a great Guitar player frontman. He fronted a group you may remember this, randy From the 1960s and 70s, ronnie and the Daytona's.
Speaker 1:
I remember that group?
Speaker 2:
Yes, and in 1964 they had a big hit called GTO.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I was trying to pull that out. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:
I remember Well Bucky Wilkins, son of Mary John. There was no Ronnie. He used that alias, that pseudonym, in I don't know why but in his music career Ronnie and the Daytona's Ronnie was Mary John Wilkins son, bucky, and Bucky's played a lot of sessions and and In addition to having a band for quite a while. So that's a little history of and Lee and rhymes. Remember when Lee and rhymes hit real big, mary John Wilkins publishing company published most of the music recorded by Lee and rhymes. So here's somebody that you know. If you go to, let's say, chick-fil-a, you know the cars are lined up Going through the drive-thru. Yeah, we've all seen that. And if you went car to car and car to car and ask you know who Johnny cash is? Everybody would know Johnny cash.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, but there are a lot of people like Mary John Wilkins.
Speaker 2:
If you say you know who Mary John Wilkins is, it have no idea. So from time to time, as we do these podcasts and talk about music, I like to remember and salute Some of the people are they too? That had an influence and made a tremendous impact that people have no idea who is. They don't know who the den of music row is.
Speaker 1:
Mary John Wilkins well, I Appreciate you doing the research on Mary John Wilkins and I appreciate the fact that you got to sit in the same room with with her at one time and ask Questions. I can imagine that that was quite interesting. Like you said, a press conference of sort people asking questions about our music and our life one day at a time, often considered the biggest gospel song of the decade in the 1970s.
Speaker 2:
She wrote the song, though in the 1960s, but in the 70s I think it was right. About 70 or 71 is when Christy Lane recorded one day at a time and it became that tremendous hit. I'm sorry it was the late 70s when she recorded it, but it had been recorded by a few people before that. But Christy Lane's recording Really took off, became Listed as one of the top 50 Southern gospel songs and then so many other people covered it and and thereafter.
Speaker 1:
I I remember so many different artists. I remember in the southern gospel field a group called the thrasher brothers.
Speaker 2:
Yes, the thrasher brothers had a. Yeah, had a great recording. Yes, one day at a time that people will Tennessee Ernie Ford.
Speaker 1:
Tennessee, ernie.
Speaker 2:
Ford covered it and.
Speaker 1:
There was no better, greater voice in the world in the Tennessee, ernie Ford.
Speaker 2:
He messed up a word in that song in his recording. I can't think of what it was.
Speaker 1:
Oh really.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, he In the song Mary John Wilkin mentions something about it's worse now it's Well, you, when you, when you walked among men.
Speaker 1:
Well, jesus, you know, if you're looking below that it's worse now than then.
Speaker 2:
Oh, there's pushing and shoving and it's crowding my mind, hmm but somewhere and I'll I'll have to look it up, but In Tennessee Ernie Ford's recording he missed a word, said the word. Said a word that wasn't in the song really, but it didn't really affect the yeah the message of the song.
Speaker 1:
I've played it many times and never caught what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:
He covered it up well, didn't?
Speaker 1:
he Are we about out of town about gone and you want to promote the next show coming up or why don't we talk about Hank Williams?
Speaker 2:
I think that's a grand as we record this, the year 2023 is the 70th anniversary of Hank Williams death. It, as we record this, we're approaching January, the first when Hank Williams died yep, at the age of 29. So why don't we talk a little bit about Hank Williams, talk about that last ride, as it's called, hank Williams going from Montgomery, alabama, up to Oak Hill, virginia, where he was found dead in the back of his Cadillac. Let's talk about that a little bit when we come back. I can't wait next time.
Speaker 1:
Thank y'all for joining us on hot Mike with Houston and Hogan. Y'all need to know how much we enjoy Getting together and talking these old stories. We've got plenty of them. So thank y'all so much for tuning in to hot Mike with Houston and Hogan. Be sure to click the subscribe button for another episode of hot Mike With Randy Houston and Dave Hogan.