Episode 42 Chronicles of Willie Nelson's Musical Innovations and Iconic Albums
Jan 14, 2024
Randy
Discover the untold melodious tales of Willie Nelson in our latest auditory journey, as we unearth his roots from behind the radio microphone to the iconic "Red Headed Stranger" album. We'll explore the narrative genius of this barebones masterpiece, how it shattered industry norms, and the way Willie's soulful rendition of "Blue Eyes Crying in the Rain" captivated an audience reaching far beyond country music's borders. From his songwriting trenches in Nashville comes the story behind "Hello Walls," along with a serendipitous encounter with Farron Young that turned the tides of Willie's musical destiny.
Our conversation isn't just about tunes, as we share an anecdote of Willie's blind chiropractor and dear friend Lonnie, embodying the resilience and timelessness mirrored in Willie's Stardust album. This record, a personal favorite, defied categorization, blending pop standards with outlaw country, and reflected Willie's fight for creative freedom. With heartfelt reminiscence, we honor his friendship with Ray Charles and the pivotal role of producer Booker T. Jones in crafting this genre-defying masterpiece. Join us for a sonorous celebration of Willie's musical saga, and be sure to tune in for even more enriching stories in our next installment.
Discover the untold melodious tales of Willie Nelson in our latest auditory journey, as we unearth his roots from behind the radio microphone to the iconic "Red Headed Stranger" album. We'll explore the narrative genius of this barebones masterpiece, how it shattered industry norms, and the way Willie's soulful rendition of "Blue Eyes Crying in the Rain" captivated an audience reaching far beyond country music's borders. From his songwriting trenches in Nashville comes the story behind "Hello Walls," along with a serendipitous encounter with Farron Young that turned the tides of Willie's musical destiny.
Our conversation isn't just about tunes, as we share an anecdote of Willie's blind chiropractor and dear friend Lonnie, embodying the resilience and timelessness mirrored in Willie's Stardust album. This record, a personal favorite, defied categorization, blending pop standards with outlaw country, and reflected Willie's fight for creative freedom. With heartfelt reminiscence, we honor his friendship with Ray Charles and the pivotal role of producer Booker T. Jones in crafting this genre-defying masterpiece. Join us for a sonorous celebration of Willie's musical saga, and be sure to tune in for even more enriching stories in our next installment.
Speaker 1:
Howdy everybody. This is a Dave Hogan and a big Hogan. Howdy. Hope all of you are having a good day today or a night. Tonight we're, whenever you're listening to our Podcast, hot Mike with Houston and Hogan. Where is the Houston?
Speaker 2:
Where is he is over here. Tune in the knobs up over here. You know the the pots the potentiometers. We got some old radio jargon we throw on you every now and then. How you doing, dave?
Speaker 1:
doing great. We said on our last podcast we were gonna talk about Willie Nelson and you try to find things there. So much about Willie he's so popular that so many stories about Willie that everybody knows. And we're gonna try to find a few stories here about Willie Nelson that maybe it's not well known as some of the others. You are there a lot of stories about Willie.
Speaker 2:
Nelson oh man, that guy is. You told me that we were gonna be talking about Willie and I committed to do some show prep. I, in my disc jockey years, which continue on now I'm not real big on doing show prep. I just kind of sit down and turn the mic on and whatever happens happens. But I committed to do some show prep and so to, and it's such hard work. I sat in binge, watched four episodes of a documentary that's on Paramount plus right now about Willie Nelson in his his career and I just learned so much and I'm in all of that guy.
Speaker 1:
I really, really am. There's a new Willie Nelson book on the market called energy follows thought the stories behind my songs and it is a table top book I think they call them big, big book and Willie Nelson talks about how some of the songs that he wrote come about and became about. And there are several songs mentioned in the book that Willie did not write but talks about the song and how he became known For the song. One of them is Red Hitted stranger and that's Willie's nickname Nickname. There was a recording of song called Red Hitted Stranger that Willie played on the radio in Texas when he was a DJ down there when he was starting out as a disc jockey. He love the Red Hitted Stranger and you know who recorded the song.
Speaker 1:
No I don't North Carolinian originally recorded that song, arthur Smith.
Speaker 2:
Oh really.
Speaker 1:
I think Tommy fail Saying the lead on the song okay and that's the recording that Willie Nelson played and and Arthur Smith, guitar Boogie Smith. Right, there was another author Smith and music at the time. So that's why the author Smith that we're talking about used guitar Boogie as his nickname because he had a recording of a tune called guitar Boogie. There's a big hit to differentiate him from the other author Smith From Charlotte had a television program way back when. Anyway, willie loved redheaded stranger and later on in his career he wrote a song. He used that song in a as the. It was called a concept album where he would go from one song to another and they'd all kind of fit together. That was the redheaded stranger album.
Speaker 1:
And when he recorded that album songs some old, older songs and some newer songs he recorded it, handed it, turned it into the to the suits, as he called them at the record company. The executives turned it in and they got back to him and said Willie, why did you turn in a demo? We wanted a full album. Why did you turn in a demo? I didn't turn in a demo, that's it. That's all you're going to get. Because Willie'd use very little instrumentation on the album, very simple To make the album. The label gave him a $60,000 advance because they were sure it would cost at least $40,000 to record it. And Willie says I recorded it for $2,000. It became a classic.
Speaker 2:
The whole album became a classic.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about the album.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. And uh, the album and the song was used as the basis for a movie later on called redheaded stranger.
Speaker 1:
And on that album came the hit song blue eyes crying in the rain, which was an old song. And blue eyes crying in the rain brought a lot of listeners to Willie Nelson's music new listeners because of that song. It had the feel of a, you know, a Frank Sinatra or one of the traditional pop singers.
Speaker 2:
And Willie always said that Frank Sinatra was his favorite vocalist. He always said that.
Speaker 1:
When Willie first went to Nashville he struggled as songwriters do when they go to Nashville, didn't have any money and the family Bible song he sold to Claude Gray for $50. And it became a number one record and sing a little of it for us, just the intro to family.
Speaker 2:
There's a family Bible on the table.
Speaker 1:
He wrote that song in 1958 and sold it to Claude Gray, as I said, for about 50 bucks, I believe. He wrote another song and a little story behind the song. When he first went to Nashville as a songwriter, he hooked up with Pamper Music, co-owned by Ray Price, and another great songwriter also signed with Pamper, Hank Cochran. And Willie and Hank were both working at. Pamper Music had a little small cubicle type office they worked in.
Speaker 1:
Not in the basement and for some reason Hank Cochran had to leave the room to do a chore. For some reason he left him. Willie was by himself and he looked around and he saw the walls. He said hello walls, hello ceiling, hello window, and the song Hello Walls came to him right there. By the time Hank got back he had written the song Hello walls and he was still down. He was still struggling and became friends or acquaintances and some acquaintances down at Tootsie's Orchid Lounge made the acquaintance of some of the opera people including Farron Young. And Farron Young loved the song. When Willie sang it to him and when he tried to sell him he said he needed some grocery money and he tried to sell that song to Farron Young. Take the story from there.
Speaker 2:
Well, farron said I want to record the song, but I'm not going to buy it from you, I'm just going to record it and make my part of the money on record sales and you keep the rights to your song.
Speaker 1:
And you'll make some money. As the writer of the song and that's the first song that Willie wrote and had recorded, that put some money in the bank for him. It was the song Hello Walls, farron Young. That's a good song. Still is considered a classic in country music.
Speaker 2:
Well, part of that research I did was about that song and the writing of Willie Nelson. One of the other big hit songs that came along and about that same era was crazy that he wrote.
Speaker 1:
He sang. He was in. I mentioned Tootsie's Orchid Lounge in Nashville.
Speaker 2:
Which backed right up to almost backstage of the Opry House.
Speaker 1:
And he had written that song Crazy, and he had it on a I guess it was the cassette Cassettes were the popular thing back then, cassette tapes and he played it for Charlie Dick who was married to Patsy Klein, and Charlie Dick liked it so much he said I want to play that for Patsy. And it was one o'clock in the morning. Charlie took Willie out to his house, woke Patsy up and showed her the song, sang the song to her and she liked it, went into the recording studio to record it and she tried to sing it like Willie and I think it was Howard Bradley who was the producer at the time and he said don't try to sing like Willie, sing like Patsy. So she recorded Crazy and it is still one of the biggest songs ever Absolutely In country music or any music. A lot of pop fans.
Speaker 2:
You'll flock to that.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, flock to that. And I think I read back when we were doing a show on jukeboxes that's the number one played song in the history of jukeboxes.
Speaker 2:
On Willie's 90th birthday celebration, which featured a whole host of artists. One of the artists was Cheryl Crow.
Speaker 1:
Great singer.
Speaker 2:
She came out and did crazy and I want you to know, buddy, she knocked it out of the park. She did an incredible job on Crazy.
Speaker 1:
I don't know how time slips away. Oh, that was one of the early songs written by Willie. Billy Walker recorded was the first recording of Funny how Time Slips Away. But there was a young man who was a singer in Nashville trying to get into the business, named Jimmy Ellige and he had the first hit with Funny how Time Slips Away and it made it in the pop field. Willie started getting established there with these songs. People started recognizing Willie Nelson. A personal story I was working at WSKY in Asheville playing country music at the time and a man from Maggie Valley and I live over at Lake Joneleska which is near Maggie Valley, right next to Maggie Valley in fact, there was a man who was a listener over in Maggie Valley and he came to the station one day and gave me an album by Willie Nelson and I hate to admit this. I said Willie Nelson great writer, but he's not a singer, and I wasn't alone in that opinion.
Speaker 2:
No, you weren't. No, you weren't. I read a saying the other day if you can't look back at your youth and admit that you were an idiot, then you're probably still one. But, and I was an idiot where Willie Nelson's music was concerned.
Speaker 1:
He was so different, so different, and he at that time I wish I still had that album. On the front cover of the album he had a suit and tie on.
Speaker 2:
Short hair.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, short hair. You wouldn't think it was Willie Nelson unless you knew. But Willie also had another song that helped propel him to start him Night Life. Oh, the Night Life ain't no good life, but it's my life. When Willie first met Ray Charles, ray Charles said Willie, I gotta be honest, when I first heard Night Life I was sure it was written by a black man. Thank you, was Willie's quick reply. That's one of the nicest compliments I've ever received.
Speaker 1:
And that song has been sung from everyone, from Aretha, by everyone, from Aretha Franklin to BB King. And Willie says I like their versions more than my own. It's not because I don't think white people can sing the blues. They can, I can. But in doing so I gotta remember the blues is a musical form, even a spiritual form, that originally comes out of the black struggle. The blues are beautiful because they transform sad to glad, and you and I talked about that. When you listen to and we're talking about Willie Nelson, so we'll use him as an example when you listen to Willie singing a sad song, it makes you feel good, it turns sad to glad. Nightlife is one of those songs. Nightlife ain't no good life, but it's my life, and I can't remember who it was, but one of the late night talk show hosts used nightlife for a theme for a good while.
Speaker 2:
You mentioned Willie's friendship with Ray Charles and that was a deep friendship. Those guys were friends, not only counterparts and recording partners. Of course, said in Spanish, angels was just a magnificent recording with Willie and Ray, but Willie told a story about how Ray invited him over to play chess. They played chess a lot together and Willie told a story about how he went over to Ray's house and Ray welcomed him into the house and it was dark. All the lights were off and he sat him down at a chess board and all of the chess pieces were the same color and Willie said quote, he kicked my ass. He could feel the difference in the pieces on the board and Willie said it was dark.
Speaker 1:
Isn't that amazing. Yeah, We've known people like Ronnie Mills out, who's from Western North Carolina. I read where Ronnie did the wiring on a studio that he built at his house In his house. I don't know, I don't know if a person can do something like that is absolutely amazing, but they can. I had a chiropractor who was blind. He went blind suddenly and I can't remember what it was called, but when he was a kid he did some a lot of swimming in a polluted water. Polluted water and fecal matter or bacteria of some kind.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
Got into his body and didn't show itself until later in life. So he was a successful chiropractor and he went blind and he still had people say, gosh, I wish you still were my chiropractor. His fellow chiropractors urged him to go back into the business, so he called me one day. I didn't know him. He called me, he wanted to do some commercials on my program and told me the story about how he was starting up his practice as a blind chiropractor. And I'm telling you I've never I've been to several chiropractors never had one that comes close to being as good as Lonnie. He was tremendous and he died not too long ago and I'm really missing Both as a friend and as my chiropractor. But blind people you lose one sense. They say the others are stronger.
Speaker 2:
Talking about Willie and Ray Willie, and we want to talk about the Stardust album, my favorite album of all time, and I've played a million of them. But my favorite album and you've heard this from me before is Stardust.
Speaker 1:
And it's so million states.
Speaker 2:
Oh, it's, uh, that's. That album stayed on the billboard, uh, top 200 album chart for like three years and on that album is Georgia on my mind. And Ray Charles had already recorded Georgia on my mind. And Willie said that he just they're friends. And he said I just wanted to check with Ray, I wanted to do that song on the Stardust album but I wanted to make sure that it was be okay with my friend Ray Charles. He called him, so I'm thinking about doing Georgia on my mind, ray. And he said Ray's response was Willie, I wasn't the first one to record that song and you won't be the last one to record it. It's a great song recorded. And and, uh, he did it put it on the Stardust album.
Speaker 2:
The Stardust album came along. It was such a departure. It came along at the time when Willie and Waylon and the Glaser brothers and all of that, that outlaw craze was going on. They were just doing this hard, driving honky tonk and hell raising outlaw country music and it was selling Willie and Waylon. But right in the middle and the height of all of that, which Willie sort of contributes to the record producers and the record industry is jumping on that outlaw thing. He said we weren't outlaws, we didn't break the law. Willie said I never knew what the law was, I never knew when I was breaking the law. But then came the Stardust album and it came along right in the middle of all of that outlaw craze and it was such a departure. It just turned the record industry and the record executives. It was so simple, primarily Willie and his guitar doing those Gershwin songs and Hoagie Carmichael standards, the songs that he says belong to the people, those great, great adult standard songs that belong to the people, and it just went out the roof.
Speaker 1:
The Stardust album was released in April of 1978 and it consisted entirely of pop standards. And let's mention a few of the songs besides the song Stardust and Georgia on my mind and melody Moonlight in Vermont Blue Skies, the September song, don't Get Around Much Anymore. Great pop standards, all of me, and I'm sure that he had to wrestle with the record company. He did. Over not just the redheaded stranger album, but the Stardust album.
Speaker 2:
Why Willie are you?
Speaker 1:
bringing an album like that to me yeah, he had a contract and in that contract it mentioned that he had complete artistic control, absolutely, over what he recorded. I was trying to find to hear how many copies of that album have been sold.
Speaker 2:
It still continues to sell.
Speaker 1:
It still sells. It's one of the biggest selling. It's on the list Rolling Stones list of the 500. Greatest albums of all time in any genre of music. But even all together there'd be thousands of them. And, and Willie says right there at the top, he was friends, uh, with several people in the field of pop and blues music, because he not only is a country music star, artist, writer, but Willie loves all kinds, loves all kinds of music.
Speaker 2:
Well, the uh, uh, the.
Speaker 1:
The guy who produced stardust was Booker T and Booker T Jones and Willie were neighbors on Malibu, malibu.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. So Booker T told the stories that I saw a guy come running up the beach one day at my house and closer he got, I said well, that's Willie Nelson. And they struck up a friendship and found out that they share a musical taste together. And uh, that's when the stardust album was born and and Booker T produced other music for Willie too. Um, I guess we better take a break here and come back and we're going to continue this conversation about Willie's music. Uh, because we could go on for days. We really could. Thank you, dave. Uh, we're going to read more in that book of yours. Uh, one of my favorite books of Willie was the Dowl of Willie and uh. So let's, uh, let's take a break and come back and talk more about the music of Willie Nelson here on a hot mic with Houston and Hogan. Be sure to click the subscribe button for another episode of hot mic with Randy Houston and Dave Hogan.