Are you truly honest about the life you aspire to have? Join us as we unravel the complexities of women's role in work and parenting, dissecting an insightful Harvard Business Review article that suggests women's career setbacks may stem from their natural tendency to prioritize family. We delve into the chicken and egg conundrum - is it a self-imposed situation or a preconceived notion? We also examine the plight of stay-at-home parents, shining a light on the implications of early life decisions on future career trajectories.
As we journey further into the conversation, we uncover the significance of hard-yet-important talks between partners before marriage or children, and the cascading effects of how childcare duties are split. We stress the necessity of honesty about envisioned futures, and tackle our question of the week: "What might be holding you back in your own life?" We then touch upon the delicate art of approaching difficult conversations in relationships, and discuss the empowering yet challenging notion of putting oneself first. We'd love to hear your thoughts and experiences - join the dialogue as we dissect the intricate dynamics between career, parenthood, and relationships.
Are you truly honest about the life you aspire to have? Join us as we unravel the complexities of women's role in work and parenting, dissecting an insightful Harvard Business Review article that suggests women's career setbacks may stem from their natural tendency to prioritize family. We delve into the chicken and egg conundrum - is it a self-imposed situation or a preconceived notion? We also examine the plight of stay-at-home parents, shining a light on the implications of early life decisions on future career trajectories.
As we journey further into the conversation, we uncover the significance of hard-yet-important talks between partners before marriage or children, and the cascading effects of how childcare duties are split. We stress the necessity of honesty about envisioned futures, and tackle our question of the week: "What might be holding you back in your own life?" We then touch upon the delicate art of approaching difficult conversations in relationships, and discuss the empowering yet challenging notion of putting oneself first. We'd love to hear your thoughts and experiences - join the dialogue as we dissect the intricate dynamics between career, parenthood, and relationships.
If you enjoyed this show, please share or leave a review. You can also email us directly at hello@brazenwomen.com or send us a message on Instagram.
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If you’re interested in private business or career coaching with Valerie, visit valeriekingmallar.com.
Speaker 1:
Welcome to Brazen, a weekly podcast where we get down and dirty on how we can live a more bold, curious and vibrant life. We are your hosts Kali Hughes, a self-care coach and nurse practitioner, and Valerie King-Mowler, a business growth and mindset coach. In this podcast, we are helping women stop people pleasing and perfectionism, awaken their inner badass and discover what can happen when we take the lead in our own life. Join us as we explore everything available to us when we brazenly take accountability for our life and well-being. Let's get started.
Speaker 2:
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Brazen podcast. I'm Valerie and I'm here with my co-host, kali, and today's topic is actually an extension of our child-free versus parents-in-the-workplace conversation, and it's one that we actually recorded sort of off the cuff, just after recording another episode. We kind of got deep into the topic of our mothers being held back in the workplace, and is it something where they are actually being held back or is it something with their mindset? And we kind of. What prompted this is an article by Harvard Business Review that talked about women being basically underrepresented in the workplace, which we know, but went on to say that the reason that people give is often that women's natural tendency to be more family-focused means that they can't put in the time and energy into their career. And basically the article, which we can link in our show notes, said that 73% of men and 85% of women believe that this is the reason why women are held back in their careers. And the article goes on to explain that actually, no, both men and women deal with the difficulties of being both a parent and a worker, but that women are often encouraged to take different sort of accommodations or to work less and kind of not go after promotions and stuff like that. So ultimately they are kind of held back because of that preconceived notion.
Speaker 2:
But what really prompted this conversation is being a child-free person myself. I kind of wanted to talk a little bit about do women just naturally fall into these roles of being the person that always leaves early to go get a child who's sick, or who handles all the daycare pickups or that type of thing? And so we are going to kind of dive into it a little bit and talk more about Kelly's experience and also just I have a few questions for her. So let's get right into it. So I'm wondering if it's like a chicken and an egg situation where women have taken on the child care and so they are kind of like they aren't getting the promotions and everything like that, so they aren't making as much money and like, yes, we have the gender wage gap and all of that.
Speaker 2:
But it's like also have they kind of put themselves in that position to be like I am going to be the primary child care person in my family and so they're not making more money, which then leads to them still being the person to like leave work every day Because, like you said, as a couple, you always make decisions based on who's making more money, and so you're going to kind of naturally stay in that position because you've not been able to kind of further your career and make more money. So I don't know, it's just kind of hard because it's like do you fall into that role from the beginning but then you're kind of held back because of either perception of you as a reliable employee or because your own perception of yourself as a reliable employee, and then you kind of just like are stuck in that role for as long as you have kids.
Speaker 1:
I don't know, well, and like, one of the things that that makes me think of is, like you know, that could be a role that you sort of just fell into because you didn't really think too much about it. Like you know, you might have kind of just been like oh yeah, I make less money, so it makes perfect sense for me to be the one to, you know, always be taking the days off with the kids, leaving work early for sick kids or for school activities. You know, it makes perfect sense for me to be the one to do that because, you know, say, my husband makes, you know, so much more money than I do.
Speaker 1:
And then I feel like it kind of becomes this vicious cycle where, you know, maybe years or decades later, you're like, wow, that really screwed me over and it's like you can't do anything about it. At that point, like you can't obviously go back and redo the decisions that you made when you were younger and had less life experience. And you know, maybe you were just trying to survive. You know, especially in this financial climate, like people are just trying to survive and they're trying to make decisions that are going to keep their families afloat financially and that's your issue, and like we don't have time to like get into all of that. But like I do feel like it's one of those things where, like maybe you make a decision that sets a precedent when you're young and not thinking about it, and then when you're older, you're like, shit, I wish I'd done some stuff differently back then.
Speaker 1:
Because you know, maybe now you're kind of forced into staying home with the kids because the cost of child care it doesn't make sense for you to be working outside the home because it would cost more in child care than you would make. So maybe you're forced into being a stay at home parent and that's not really what you want to be doing. And then it like snowballs because then once your kids are in school and you you know potentially could go out and get another job, then employers are like tell me about this, like 10 year gap in your resume and then you're not a candidate as maybe somebody who has been actively working in the industry that whole time and has kept up with changes and like knows all the most recent you know innovations and stuff like that. I mean, it's just like women are just so set up for failure in our society and it just like it makes me so like mad and sad as my six year old says.
Speaker 2:
I think my question and this is obviously coming from a non parent to a parent is are you guys having that kind of conversation though, like you're in, you know the healthcare field and potentially could be making, you know, really good money, and so, like, if you're a young couple and you've just had your first child and you're like, okay, I have a career where I could be making like tons of money Eventually, like I have to kind of build up to that, do you guys I mean like, and you can talk about your personal experience but like our couples even having a conversation around that, because I'm afraid that it just kind of falls on the mother, because that's just like how society sort of sees the childcare world.
Speaker 2:
And so, like you know, are there things that women can be doing? And I'm not like I'm not talking about the gender wage gap or anything like that, because obviously that's still a legitimate issue but, like, if you do have the potential to have a higher paying career versus your husband, like, are you kind of like stunting your own growth by not having a conversation in the beginning?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I mean, I think you very well could be.
Speaker 1:
The thing is that I don't think, like you know, say 10 or 15 years ago, like when I was fresh out of college.
Speaker 1:
You know, and we've already established that I got married young, so I was married at like 22, 23 years old.
Speaker 1:
I don't think that I would have had the life experience and like the perspective at that point in my life to have anticipated all of the ways that, like if I had left my career as a nurse at that point, you know, because maybe it was impossible for us to find daycare or it was almost the same amount of money that I would have been making and so I would have been feeling, you know, possibly like I was just paying somebody else to watch our kids so that I could be out doing something else, and all the guilt that would probably come along with that.
Speaker 1:
You know, I think that I probably wouldn't have thought about all of the ways that it could impact me like decades down the line, especially because when you have a young family, you're honestly just so focused on survival and just like getting through the day, that having those like deep introspective conversations kind of like unless you make time for it intentionally, like it just might not happen. So it's like a hard question because, like hindsight is 2020. Yeah, and it's like you know, when you're making decisions for a young family and you're in the beginning of your career, like sometimes it's hard to anticipate all of the shit that might come up decades in the future that you're, like MIR, kind of screwed myself over there.
Speaker 2:
I think, even though, like I mean, this is kind of, the point of the podcast is that we're encouraging women to be more deliberate about their life choices and I think you know, when my husband and I first got married or first got together as a couple, we weren't sure yet if we were going to have kids or not. I was pretty sure I didn't want to have kids, but I was like, if we do, I just want to be clear that I'm still going to work a lot so, like you, can either be a stay at home dad or, like you know, I ultimately, like you'll likely be doing more of the childcare.
Speaker 1:
And if that's not?
Speaker 2:
something you want, then you know we shouldn't have children. And it's even hard for me to say that now because it sounds like it almost sounds selfish or hard, but I'm like proud of myself for being very upfront. That being kind of a stay at home mom or just being that person that leaves work for childcare isn't something that I wanted.
Speaker 1:
And.
Speaker 2:
I'm wondering if women need to kind of be very clear, like if they're going to be focused on their careers, like do they have a partner that's willing to kind of jump in? And then I think, my second question and I'm just like you know, once again, I'm not a parent, so I can be really pushy about this stuff but I think the next question is is it better to have one parent be the person to leave all the time, rather than both of you splitting it? Because, like, the other piece of me is like, well, why aren't you guys splitting it equally and each of you like going home with us a kid, you know, or like that kind of thing, but ultimately are you hurting both of your careers in that case? So, you know, maybe it does make more sense for that person who makes less money to be the one to like leave all the time, leave, work all the time or, you know, handle the majority of the childcare.
Speaker 1:
Mm, hmm, yeah, I mean I think ultimately the important thing is that if both of you are interested in having a career, you know that's fulfilling for yourself and that you're invested in and like you want to progress or you know whatever. Like I think having a conversation and understanding that from the very beginning is going to be so crucial. Like I'm talking before you have kids, before you even get married, you need to have this conversation with your potential partner of like you know, what do you see your life looking like? Your career, looking like your home life looking like? Because if you want a career, like I'll just use myself as an example Like I went to school for many years and it took a lot of work for me to finish school and get my nursing degree and my nursing license and then find a job in an area that I really liked, and so I was not willing at that point in my life to give that up and be a stay-at-home mom, and so that's something that my husband and I had a conversation about.
Speaker 1:
I was like, no, I do not want to be a stay-at-home mom, like I'm just not built for it and like I just find so much satisfaction and fulfillment in my career as a nurse and I know that if I had a partner who wasn't as willing and supportive of like splitting the kid duty 50-50 or like I mean, we came pretty damn close to 50-50 when we were both working outside the home, you know, if he hadn't been as supportive of that, then it would have been me, you know, having to cut back my hours at work so that I could be there for the kids, and it would have been my career, taking the hit because it's like somebody has to do it.
Speaker 1:
And if he is like refusing to meet me halfway, then like first of all, that really should cause you to have some concerns and questions about your relationship and the sustainability of it. But like it would have been my career and my financial independence and my own sense of duty, I guess you know taking the hit because it's like somebody has to be there to pick them up from daycare, somebody has to drop them off at daycare and somebody has to be there when they're sick, and if it's not gonna be him, it's gotta be me, you know. So I don't know. It's just like there's so much baggage just wrapped up in that between, like the gender roles and respect within a relationship and just the workforce you know, and how it approaches families and parents and that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:
I mean there's so much there and it feels like super overwhelming, but like a lot of times it is like you know, just the cards are so stacked against the women in the relationship sometimes, especially if in the past you know decisions have been made that you know maybe weren't the best decision you could have made, but like you did the best you could at the time and you just gotta kind of figure out the best way forward.
Speaker 2:
That's a really good point. I think it goes back to me questioning, like you know, are people being honest with themselves and then being honest with their partner about what they need? And I do think that sometimes things just naturally fall into either gender roles or just kind of stereotypical places because people aren't having conversations about, like, what do you want in life? And, you know, is your career important to you? Like you mentioned, you know you put a lot of money and time into your schooling and so our couple is looking at that and being like hey, I invested a lot in my future, so like this is really important to me. And I'm just curious, like, are people you know out there having conversations about the whole childhood aspect and we're having children in general and what that means for both of your careers?
Speaker 2:
And there is nothing wrong if you want to be a stay-at-home mom, that's great. I always bristle at the idea of women sort of defaulting into certain positions because it's either what society expects or because they haven't had a conversation and kind of aren't willing to be like, hey, wait a minute, like my career is super important to me, because either society will frown upon that and be like wow, you're putting your career above your kids, or just like your partner isn't supportive of it, and so it's just kind of want to question what we can do to make sure that you're like still maintaining your power and ambition and, you know, able to kind of like create the life that works for you as well as your family.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and I think that I mean that's one of the main goals of this podcast is just to bring these topics up so that you do stop and kind of give them some forethought. And one of the things especially maybe you had kids young, you got married young and you made some decisions that seemed right at the time. But now that you're older, you have more perspective and life experience, maybe you are realizing that it didn't serve you super well at this point in your life and it's going to require you to have some tough and uncomfortable conversations. Maybe you're going to have to have a conversation with your spouse, who's been perfectly happy with the way that things have been going for him, but you are the one who's feeling unfulfilled and you want to get back into the workforce or, like you want to find a new job, or you just realize that you want to change things up in a way that might make things a little bit more uncomfortable for him. And I'm just using like the heteronormative, because that's kind of just the stereotypical way that these things tend to go, but it could be in any relationship. So just substitute whatever you want for what I'm saying, but it's going to require that we get okay with rocking the boat a little bit. This is me just like putting on like my big sister, best friend hat.
Speaker 1:
So if you are in a relationship where you're like afraid to bring something up with your spouse or your partner, that you're like, yeah, he is not going to want me to go back to work because, you know whatever fill in the blank it's going to give him less free time. He's going to have to do more around the house, he's going to have to be home at a specific time to pick the kids up off the bus, you know whatever the inconvenience would be Like. If you're afraid to have that conversation, even though you know in your own heart that this is something that you really need to happen for your own mental health, your own personal growth, your professional growth, whatever, then I think it's time to have like a conversation with yourself and be like why is that? Is it because of my own stuff, of like, I don't want to like disappoint people, I don't want to like have a confrontational conversation, I don't want to start issues? Or is it because there might be an issue in your relationship where they get really defensive or they just like are not great communicators and you know that this is just going to start a whole thing, something to think about. I mean, maybe you guys can explore that in couples counseling or something.
Speaker 1:
But you know, definitely don't be putting your life on hold or not taking opportunities that you would really like to just for the sake of somebody else. Like you need to be living your own life and be happy and satisfied and fulfilled as an individual. So make sure that you're making yourself a priority in your own life. So that kind of wraps up this conversation on what's holding women back in their careers, and so the question of the week is what might be holding you back in your own life? Valerie, do you want to answer that question for yourself? Yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:
I would say that, not sort of spending time acknowledging what it is I really want in scenarios and I think that sometimes it is easy to default or sleepwalk through some kind of major decisions in your life and I would like to just maybe spend a little more time being like okay, like this is what I want from either my partner or my career, and kind of just being more deliberate about all of that. How about you?
Speaker 1:
For me. I would say that probably the thing holding me back is being hesitant or like resistant to having the tough conversations that might rock the boat a little bit. I was talking to you, listener, but I was also talking to myself when I said what I said. But, yeah, I think just getting more comfortable with just stating my truth and like what I want unapologetically and, of course, that would require knowing what I want first. So, yeah, I mean figuring all that out and then being able to, like, put words to it out loud would be good.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so we would love to hear from you too. So let us know through email or through a DM on Instagram, and let us know what something might be that's holding you back, that you would like to put some intentional effort into working on over the next week and beyond, so you can link over to our email or our Instagram through the show notes and come back next week and we will continue these conversations where we help you to consider different ways that you can create the dream life that you have always wanted. We'll talk to you later. Keep being brazen.
Speaker 2:
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Brazen podcast. We'd love to hear more about your parenthood or a child-free journey, so please feel free to email us at hello at brazenwomencom. If you liked this episode. Please rate, review and share the episode so we can get the word out there. We'll be back here next Tuesday, but in the meantime, keep being brazen.