From Query to Publication: Agent Adria Goetz on Perfecting Your Pitch and Navigating the Industry

In this episode of Writers With Wrinkles, we welcome Adria Goetz, a Senior Literary Agent at KT Literary, to discuss the dos and don’ts of querying, how to stand out in a crowded submission pile, and navigating industry challenges like editor transitions. Aspiring authors will gain valuable insights into crafting compelling pitches, building resilience, and staying attuned to market trends.

Guest Bio

Adria Goetz is a Senior Literary Agent and Illustration Coordinator at KT Literary, specializing in picture books, middle grade, graphic novels, and adult fiction. She has represented numerous bestsellers, including Millie Fleur's Poison Garden and The Crescent Moon Tea Room. A fan of whimsy and heartfelt storytelling, Adria enjoys re-watching Gilmore Girls and dreaming of life in a mossy stone cottage.

Key Discussion Points

• The Querying Process: Adria shares tips on crafting warm, professional, and specific query letters, emphasizing how to make an immediate impression on literary agents.
• Navigating Rejections: Advice on interpreting agent feedback and why “near misses” are a good sign of progress for aspiring writers.
• Industry Insights: Adria discusses the realities of agent submissions, the competitiveness of the market, and strategies for writers facing challenges like editor transitions or poor past book sales.
• Market Trends for 2025: The rise of genre mashups, cozy fantasy, romanticcy, and magical speculative stories, as well as opportunities in neglected spaces like stories featuring 14–15-year-old protagonists.
• Building Resilience: Why persistence, adaptability, and proactive marketing are essential for long-term success in publishing.

Conclusion

Adria offers encouraging and practical advice for writers striving to break into publishing. From perfecting the query letter to navigating industry challenges, this episode is packed with actionable insights to help writers stay motivated and informed on their journey to publication.

Mentioned Links

• Learn more about Adria Goetz: KT Literary
• The Mixed-Up Files of Middle-Grade Authors (Cover reveal for The Library of Curiosities)
• Podcast blog and notes: Writers With Wrinkles

Transcript

Beth McMullen: Hi, friends, I'm Beth Mcmullen.

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Lisa Schmid: And I'm Lisa Schmidt.

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Beth McMullen: And we're the co-hosts of writers with wrinkles. This is season 4. Episode 3. Today we're excited to welcome Adria Goetz to the show.

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Beth McMullen: Adria is a senior literary agent and illustration coordinator at Kt. Literary, where she represents picture books, middle grade, graphic novels, and adult fiction.

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Beth McMullen: So she was recently proud to represent the instant New York Times and Indie, Bestseller, Millie Fleur's Poison Garden, by Christy Mandan In the Groves, by Andrea Cruz Florin, the other side of tomorrow by Tina Cho and the Crescent Moon Tea Room, by Stacey Savinsky. In her spare time she can be found rewatching Gilmore girls for the 1 millionth time listening to Taylor swift and dreaming about the mossy stone cottage in the woods. She would like to live in one day.

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Beth McMullen: Thank you for being here, Adria. We're super excited to have you.

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Adria Goetz: Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here.

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Beth McMullen: I love the Gilmore girls, my daughter and I have watched the whole thing. And then we went back to the beginning and started watching the whole thing again. I feel like it's 1 of those shows that you can watch repeatedly forever, and it never gets old.

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Adria Goetz: Oh, yeah, I mean, it's it's such a comfort watch and it it like. The reason I have it in my bio is because I feel like it just like sums my taste up so much like there's some whimsy, there's some humor, there's some heart. It's also really smart, I think. And features, you know, quirky women, and it's just there's so much about that show that I love.

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Beth McMullen: I love the banter. It's just smartly written.

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Adria Goetz: Top, tier top, tier.

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Beth McMullen: When I was watching. What is the show on? I think it was an Amazon show

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Beth McMullen: with the comedian.

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Adria Goetz: Oh, the marvelous Mrs. Maisel. Yeah.

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Beth McMullen: And while I was watching it I didn't realize it was the same writer. And then, about halfway through the second episode, I was like. Oh, my God! It's the Gilmore girls again in a different place. It was like it was just. It's such a trademark like she's so good, and her style is so recognizable.

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Adria Goetz: Amy Sherman, Palladino. She's just the best.

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Beth McMullen: Amazing. Yeah, amazing.

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Beth McMullen: So we have a mutual friend client.

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Adria Goetz: Is yours.

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Beth McMullen: Friend of ours, and we were gonna ask you a little bit about what's going on with her, because she's got a lot of exciting things. Did you have questions about Jenny that you wanted to throw out there.

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Lisa Schmid: Just we are we've been following this process, and I will say that when I was reading Jenny's book the manuscript for stars and you can talk about that book in a second. When she had sent it over, and just said that our listeners know it's a

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Lisa Schmid: It's kind of a Riff on the Narnia stories, and if you are a narnia fan, just mark your calendars for this book, because it will tug at every adolescent heartstring. But it's an adult fiction.

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Lisa Schmid: and the whole time I was reading it, and I'm not kidding you the whole time. I would text her continually and say, auction

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Lisa Schmid: auction. This is going to auction. And and then I would text her, you know, when I'd read a scene or something, I would just be like Omg, and then, like lots of you know, just the whole time I was reading it. This book is amazing. And I just I feel like it's it's sure to become a classic. I think that

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Lisa Schmid: people are just going to fall in love with it and connect with with this story, and it's going to resonate with so many people I can just, you know, who doesn't love Narnia and who didn't grow up reading Narnia books. Do you know what I mean. So why don't you tell us a little bit about that book?

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Lisa Schmid: And when it's coming out, and kind of your experience when you read it because it was. It's magical.

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Adria Goetz: Yeah. So when I was reading it, I was texting her. Being like this made me cry. I love this, or probably more like inline manuscript notes. But yeah, so it's a story about 3 sisters which I grew up in a 4 sister household. So any story about sisters is near and dear to my heart.

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Adria Goetz: And they find this magical book, where, when you, when you open it, you are transported to this island.

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Adria Goetz: And 2 sisters go, and one sister doesn't. And like Narnia, time moves differently there, and so they grow up and experience all of these changes, and then they come back

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Adria Goetz: to the real world, and they're like back in their like childhood bodies. And and so it's like I. When I pitched it I pitched it as like a grown up grittier chronicles of Narnia, because there's definitely like some trauma, and she grapples with like. How

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Adria Goetz: how psychologically challenging that would be to process it. If you really did go through a wardrobe into Narnia, if you really did go in into this magical book to this island like what that would be like to to bounce back from that. And yeah, I think I think it's a it's a special book, too. It was. It didn't quite go to auction it could have.

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Adria Goetz: But we just had this this preemptive offer, that kind of swept us off our feet and was like, let's let's save save us all the the time and the drama of an option when we have this offer. That just is, was just the the perfect fit and then, as far as when it publishes. I literally was talking to Jenny like 10 min before this call, because that's something that we are discussing right now. But that's that's Tbd, but I think it, it's definitely going to be a really special book.

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Lisa Schmid: And the title the full title of the book for our listeners, so they can.

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Adria Goetz: Right now. It's the stars of somewhere else.

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Lisa Schmid: Right.

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Beth McMullen: Title.

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Lisa Schmid: An amazing story. I just I can hardly wait for people to read it. And, I'm excited that you are like going through the same kind of I mine. It was just. It was a very I just felt everything about the story. And just and I think about that. You know, if you were kids in Narnia like you? Never! They never really address that like, how is it to be an adult? 1 min, and then to come back and to be a kid, I mean, that's such a fascinating topic to dive into further.

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Adria Goetz: Yeah. I also like, I'm also really excited about her next middle grade, which was the 1st book we did together. That comes out this summer called the Library of Curiosities, and so for anyone listening. This is a magical, whimsical story about a girl named Rowan Fitzgerald, and she's kicked out of her boarding school

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Adria Goetz: and sent to live with her estranged uncle. Who has this? She knows he has this library, but she doesn't know that it's not a library where you check out books. That's a library where you check out these

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Adria Goetz: magical objects called curiosities, and so you can check out a wishing sock if you want to make a wish for something to come true, or if you have writer's block, you can check out an enchanted typewriter to help you with what you're writing, and just like all of these magical things. And it's it's 1 of my favorite books that I've ever ever worked on. So I'm really excited for that for that to publish this year.

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Lisa Schmid: It is. It's another wonderful book by her. She's on a roll right now, and I actually just did the cover reveal for her. Over at the mixed up files. Blog.

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Adria Goetz: Yeah.

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Lisa Schmid: So, and the cover is gorgeous. So it's out there and it's available for pre-order. So you guys go check it out.

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Beth McMullen: And we will keep everybody posted. When we find out the date for the Stars Book. We'll let everybody know when that's going to be published, because that one, I think, is going to be very popular with a lot of people who have fond memories of Narnia.

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Beth McMullen: So we have some great questions for you, and let's jump into that before we end up taking up your whole entire day, because I'm sure you have a lot of things to do

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Beth McMullen: so. Our 1st question is, what are some of your do's and don'ts

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Beth McMullen: of querying? What's sort of at the top of your list about of? I'd like to see this. But please don't do that.

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Adria Goetz: Yeah, so I'll I'll give some tips. So I would say, do have a query that is warm and professional. Uses really specific language.

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Adria Goetz: and very clearly explains what your project is in an appealing way, and I know that a lot of that might sound like common sense and very much like, okay, duh, but I get a lot of queries that sound the opposite of that, so they'll sound cold rather than sounding warm. They'll sound unprofessional. They'll be vague.

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Adria Goetz: And they won't explain the project in an appealing way. So to get into like a few specific specifics of what that looks like. Being warm. Looks like, you know, beginning your query with, I hope you're having a great day, or I hope you're doing well. Being warm. Looks like, including some fun detail about yourself in the personal Bio section. You know I raise chickens, or I do pottery, or you know I

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Adria Goetz: spend my days with sticky hands, because I'm a kindergarten teacher, or like whatever that, whatever that may be. And then, being professional, that looks like, you know, following submission, guidelines having everything. A traditional query should have, like a strong pitch and comp titles, and an author bio, and treating it seriously because it is a serious, it's proposition. You're proposing a business partnership. And so it shouldn't be

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Adria Goetz: a casual thing. And then, being specific and explaining your project in appealing ways that looks like this that looks like rather than saying, my story is about a girl who escapes oppression and embraces freedom. You instead say my story is about a 16 year old girl named Rapunzel, with a magical golden braid that's 50 feet long, and her witch mother keeps her locked away from the world

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Adria Goetz: in a stone tower, like specific details, are so much more interesting than vague language. And a lot of times we see, just like really vague pitches like my story is about.

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Adria Goetz: You know a woman who goes on an emotional journey through her divorce to find herself, and it just doesn't really get into like the the specifics of the plot, and I think agents really like specific details.

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Beth McMullen: I love that I just had a conversation with a book coaching client of mine who was working on a query letter, and the problem was the vagueness in that. She could see it right, because it's her story, and the words felt like they represented the story. But for somebody who has not, has never heard anything about it. It just felt

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Beth McMullen: too vague, I mean, vague is the perfect word for it. And she you really need those little details, those little nuggets, those things that when the person is done reading the letter still is stuck in their head, you can see the image of it. I also really like your comment about the warmth, that friendly tone, that engaging tone. I think sometimes people get confused about, you know, having to use very stiff, formal language, because it is this professional quote, unquote letter, but

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Beth McMullen: professional also means that you can show yourself through it and let that agent get a sense of who you are. I think that's great advice, and I love that. You say it might be obvious, but that's usually the stuff that people are not paying attention to, because they are like, Oh, it's obvious. But yeah, I'm not doing it.

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Lisa Schmid: That kind of leads into the next question, really? Well, and that's a lot of times we've we've gotten some questions from

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Lisa Schmid: our listeners that have received rejections that talk about. An agent said, well, I didn't love the voice, or I love the voice, but I didn't connect with the story, or I didn't have an editorial vision for the story. I think a lot of times people hear that as well, so they'll hear different little buzzwords and things that

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Lisa Schmid: agents throw out there. And so when you, if you what's your process for when you're when you're taking on a new client. So what are you looking for? How editorial are you? Is it? Do you look at it and say, You know I can elevate the story, or are you looking for a story already to be elevated?

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Lisa Schmid: You know all those kind of things, all those like, if something, if you love the voice. But you don't love the story. How? What's your whole process?

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Adria Goetz: Yeah. So I think first, st I'll say, I think writers have a very black and white understanding of how agents review their submissions like, I think that they think if we don't like a submission, then we pass, and if we love it, we offer representation. But that's not really how it works. It's it's much more gray than that.

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Adria Goetz: I would. In fact, I would say that I like, or even love, like most of most submissions that I get and and that's not me being like nice or trying to like pander to the audience. But

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Adria Goetz: that's because my submission pile is is tailor made for me, like around the world. Writers are looking at my manuscript wish list. They're seeing what I'm asking for, they're doing their research. They're they're watching interviews. They're listening to podcasts like this. And they're getting a sense of like, Okay, I'm going to send her. My, you know, Gilmore girls inspired books. I'm going to send her this this novel I wrote that was inspire.

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Adria Goetz: inspired by a Taylor swift song, I'm going to send her this magical mermaid stuff like it's this. It really is tailor made for for me or for each agent like each agent, slash file is so unique to them. So it's like, imagine if

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Adria Goetz: someone gave you a library full of like 6,000 books that were specifically selected just for you. But then you can only pick 2 or 3 books to keep. So it's like a very delicious torture. But that's honestly what it's like, because I get about 5 to 6,000 submissions per year. But at this point. I'm only signing a couple of clients per year.

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Adria Goetz: And and I would say, like most agents who are who are 5 or 6 years into their career kind of aren't really building their list anymore. They're just maintaining it. So I already have built up an amazing robust roster of clients who keep me plenty busy. So at this point in my career and my decision making process, it's just like only taking on a new client. If I just literally cannot say no, like the

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Adria Goetz: project is just that irresistible so that that's that's a big part of my decision. Making process is just my bandwidth. And can I say no to this?

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Adria Goetz: But I'm also thinking, you know, do I know which editors to send this to do? I have a very specific editorial vision for what this story needs.

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Adria Goetz: Sometimes I'll see a story, and I like it, and I know that it needs work. But I don't know how to fix it. And so in that case, even if it's a book that I would love to read and love, you know, if I saw it at a bookstore. I would buy it. Then I'll pass because I want to make sure that I am the best possible agent for someone when I offer representation, and I'm also like looking inward to to ask myself like, do I truly have a vision for this author

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Adria Goetz: long term career? Can I see what that would look like. And obviously, you know, you need to make sure that

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Adria Goetz: that your vision aligns with the author's vision. But that that's something that I'm thinking about as well. And then my personal litmus test. And it's a very personal, very subjective thing. But it's just like, does this project. Give me energy, or what? Or would it take energy away from me to work on it? And that's very subjective, because sometimes a project will need

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Adria Goetz: a lot of work, but it's in a way where I'm just like, but I have a vision for it. And so like, that's an exciting thing like. I know what this story needs. But sometimes a project needs work, and it's like, Oh, but this is going to be an overhaul, and we're going to have to take it down to the studs, and it's going to be a slog. And we're gonna have to. Do. You know, a bunch of different passes to get it ready. And so that's that's going to take energy.

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Adria Goetz: Away from me. But if you I would say like, if you're getting

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Adria Goetz: any writer out there. If they're getting passes like that, that's like a very good sign to me. That! And like a vote of confidence that the editors are are saying, or agents are saying positive things.

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Adria Goetz: but still still passing. So my advice to writers getting those types of passes is just to not get hung up on the near misses, but just to keep keep knocking on doors, and until the right one opens.

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Adria Goetz: That was a long answer. Sorry.

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Beth McMullen: That's a great. That's a great answer, I think, because you're right, that writers definitely fixate on stuff. That's just the way that we are. So if you get that near, miss, then you're dissecting it and trying to get down to the nuts and bolts. I really like that library idea because you're right. Your pile is curated for you. People are not going to send you a a sci-fi epic, right? Because that's.

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Adria Goetz: It's not something that you.

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Beth McMullen: Well, they might.

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Beth McMullen: Okay, I'm over. I I've given too much credit to some of the writers out there who are like, I'm gonna send this to everybody.

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Adria Goetz: I'm just gonna specifically say.

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Beth McMullen: Okay.

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Adria Goetz: And see what.

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Beth McMullen: Yes, that is totally true. How funny! Well, for the ones who are being a little bit more conscientious and sending you the stuff that you want.

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Beth McMullen: I mean, the odds are are pretty. The percentage of books that you take from the amount that you receive is just. It's it's an uphill battle, and you just have to keep climbing. Otherwise, if you give up, you never have a chance. If you keep opening those doors hopefully, you find the person who is the right fit for you.

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Adria Goetz: Yeah, and I, I always feel like I need to to say this when I list numbers, because people get really discouraged by numbers, but they get discouraged when they hear, like you get 5, 5, or 6,000 submissions, but you only take on 2 or 3, and then they go to the calculator and look at their their odds, and I like, I know the odds are very depressing, but I I kind of feel like a responsibility to share those numbers so that you

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Adria Goetz: ha! So that writers have that context and

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Adria Goetz: and factor it into their querying strategy to be like, okay, the odds are not good, but the odds increase with every query that I do send out.

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Adria Goetz: you know, the more raffle tickets I buy for something, the more likely I am to win that raffle prize. So it's like, I don't know. I I never want those numbers to discourage people. I want them to like motivate people to knock on more doors.

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Beth McMullen: I think it's also important to be realistic. Right? Like those numbers are the reality, and if you don't know them they're still the same. So you want to be working in an environment of awareness what's going on around you and what it looks like, so that

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Beth McMullen: you can have a long term plan that factors in this type of competition. So I mean, I think I am all for more information rather than less sticking our heads in the sand does nothing for anybody, and that's when you get really discouraged because you had this idea that it was going to be easy. And it's not easy.

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Lisa Schmid: I think it's important that people know and understand, because a lot of times you'll see people posting on social media. I sent this, you know, 6 months ago, and I still haven't heard from the agent. Well, do you have 6,000 manuscripts

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Lisa Schmid: to get through? I mean it, just, you know, reading a manuscript while you're managing all your other clients. It's it takes time away from your the business that you do on a day to day basis for your clients. It's I can imagine. I can't even imagine how you do get to 6,000 manuscripts in a year. So I think it's really important that people do understand that every agent receives an overwhelming number

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Lisa Schmid: of manuscripts every year.

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Adria Goetz: Yeah. And I think a lot of writers imagine that like

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Adria Goetz: they're competing against like cause we you know you, we use the term slush Kyle a lot.

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Adria Goetz: And so I think they imagine, like, okay, I have a great story. I'm competing against a bunch of like.

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Adria Goetz: not great stories. But it's like gosh, no, I like. I hate to break it to you, but my slush pile is a treasure trove of gems like it. It does not feel like slogging through slosh slush to me to review submissions. It feels like, Oh, my gosh!

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Adria Goetz: Like

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Adria Goetz: that was a great story, and that was a great story. And like, it's just a lot of a lot of good stuff. And so

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Adria Goetz: yeah, that that's that's part of it, too. There's a lot of lot of talented people out there.

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Beth McMullen: I think, then you have to kind of put at the forefront the things that you can control at what you were just talking about about the type of things you should be putting in that query letter, sending in a polished manuscript or chapters, or the things that you really you can't control what other people are producing, and you can't control what other people are submitting and how many of them are submitting. But you can certainly control your own stuff.

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Beth McMullen: So again, it's just super important to make sure that you are

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Beth McMullen: putting together a package, a submission package that is really polished and ready to go, so that you make it easier if the agent likes it, for them to say yes to the project.

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Beth McMullen: So I mean, we say that on this show all the time. So every every show I'm like, how can I tell people to do the do the work at the beginning, so that you have a better chance of getting selected in that very competitive field.

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Beth McMullen: So our next question, this has been coming up a lot. We've heard this from a lot of people in our universe, and it's about

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Beth McMullen: writers who are essentially orphaned when their editor leaves the publishing house and the book gets passed to somebody new also at the publishing house, who was not the acquiring editor, and is maybe not as into it, has their own stuff. So your book suddenly becomes sort of an add-on or something they pay less attention to because they've already got their own, you know. Very busy schedule of books. So

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Beth McMullen: do you have a strategy for a client facing that situation. What sort of advice would you give them to navigate that kind of new terrain? Once their editor has jumped ship.

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Adria Goetz: Yeah, I think that the most important thing to do is just to try to build rapport with the new editor as quickly as possible.

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Adria Goetz: So usually that just begins with scheduling an introductory call with the editor to. So everyone can get to know each other. Talk about where the book is at in the production process, and and what's next for it? And then I'd also say that just when at all possible, to try to keep things upbeat

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Adria Goetz: and positive, because it's ultimately not the editor's fault that the book was was orphaned, and that its original editor left. So sometimes writers will have anger and frustration and direct it at their new editor. And it's just kind of not like the best foot to begin a relationship on.

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Adria Goetz: but being positive and having gratitude to that editor. That's a wonderful way to kick things off right? And then I'd also add that like, if if, when you're on that intro call the editor says something like, you know, I'm I'm kind of overwhelmed. I just inherited 20 books, and so I haven't actually read this manuscript yet. That's when you or your agent should jump in and say, Okay.

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Adria Goetz: yeah, we completely understand. Let's schedule another call. Once you have had a chance to read it, to go over notes and and best next steps. I think it's just like

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Adria Goetz: about being proactive about those things. Building a good rapport and just keeping the ball rolling until a book gets to the finish line. And if you, you know, created a great relationship with them, maybe you can do more books with them. If it was kind of a 1 off thing, then, you, you know, move on to the next next opportunity.

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Lisa Schmid: So that can lead into the next question.

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Lisa Schmid: And this came from somebody outside as well. Somebody, so say. For example, one of your clients has maybe a debut book or a book that the sales are don't do well

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Lisa Schmid: on that book, and then they have another book that they want to send out on sub. And there, there's always concerns because you hear about. Okay, your last book didn't do. Well, you know, this is really going to affect your ability to sell your next book? How do you position that when you're when you're out marketing? A book that from a from a writer who hasn't had a great

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Lisa Schmid: sales record with the last one.

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Adria Goetz: Yeah, so that that can be a really tough thing to navigate. There are a few different few different things you can do, and you can try a new space. So if you're

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Adria Goetz: writing middle grade and your 1st middle grade tanked, you could pivot to ya or adult, or you know, picture books or some other space? You could. Also, I mean trying a pen name like that's another another way to go. It really just kind of like depends on the individual author and and what their goals are. Because the other thing is, there's always just that

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Adria Goetz: that element of like. If a book is just truly so special, and it's just such an amazing concept, then it can defy the odds it can defy having a a lower, you know, sales record.

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Adria Goetz: so it it kind of kind of just depends on on the project depends on the author. I I do think it's a. It's a shame that a sales record is held against an author. Because

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Adria Goetz: and and if any editors are listening to this, I'm sorry, but I I think sales sales. Numbers are always the publisher's fault if they don't do well, I mean, they have. They have marketing teams, they have publicists. They have so many tools at their disposal. They have ways for getting that book sold, and so

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Adria Goetz: I I don't. I don't see it as being a reflection on the author, or or even the book. But but I think it's more of.

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Adria Goetz: I think I think it's the publisher's fault. I'm gonna regret saying that. But that's.

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Beth McMullen: I kind of agree with you on that, because you feel like the publishers acquire so many books, and then there's just not enough room to really, actively market and sell all of them. So of course, they're going to have their lead books that they're really excited about that. They paid a whole bunch of money for, and they're going to throw some weight behind that. But the rest of them, really, you are kind of left to your own devices, but I think

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Beth McMullen: they're having that knowledge. When you're going in

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Beth McMullen: into the situation, then you have to start picking up some of the slack. You really have to be smart about where you find your readers, and how do you access them? And how do you get this book in front of them? And you know, how do you do your own sort of stuff to complement whatever it is the publisher is gonna gonna do for you? Because in a lot of cases. It's going to be next to nothing, and that's just the reality. Again. It's just the way the business is set up. It's no shade on the person. It's just the way it is.

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Adria Goetz: Yeah. And it's also, I think, some books, just

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Adria Goetz: they just don't connect with people, for whatever reason, or it just kind of wasn't the right time in the market, the market kind of shifted and

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Adria Goetz: but that that's not to say that the author's next idea isn't going to be completely wonderful. And yeah.

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Beth McMullen: Yeah, it takes so long to take a book to market something that was totally on trend when you sold it. By the time it hits the shelves people have moved on to, you know. It's like vampires were really hot, and then they were gone. And now they're back. So it's like I think it's a cycle right like.

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Adria Goetz: Oh, definitely.

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Beth McMullen: You know you. You have to time it right.

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Adria Goetz: Yeah, yeah, very cyclical. Industry. Yeah.

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Beth McMullen: Talking about sales. What do you think is hot, and what is not in 2025. And what are you looking for in particular. I know you are not open to submissions. But if people are planning at someday in the future to query you, what are you interested in?

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Adria Goetz: Well, as far as hot versus not I'm still hearing a lot of interest in romanticy.

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Adria Goetz: I know that a lot of editors are fatigued in that space, but I think readers are not. I think readers are still really excited about romantic sales. Reps are still excited about it. So I'm still hearing people ask for it. I'm still hearing a lot of requests for horror, and that's like across across the age spectrums from

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Adria Goetz: anywhere from picture books to middle grade to, you know, adult, but lots of interest in horror. And like all the different sub genres within it.

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Adria Goetz: I think we're gonna continue to see a lot of genre mashups. I feel like it's we saw a lot in the last couple of years. And I think it's a really interesting and exciting time for for writers kind of pushing the boundaries of genre. I think things don't really need to fit into neat and tidy boxes anymore. You can have a ROM-com about serial killers falling in love. You can have a

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Adria Goetz: whodunit mystery set in space. You can have cozy horror like, there's just a lot of really interesting genre explorations happening right now. And I think we're going to continue to see a lot of that

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Adria Goetz: And let's see what else I'm I'm beginning to see some requests for

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Adria Goetz: books that are kind of the kind of straddle the line between middle grade and young adult. Because the the Ya market has been getting older and older. We're seeing a lot of, you know, Cross, that's a whole other part of the market. But crossover between ya and adult featuring like 1819 20 year old protagonists

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Adria Goetz: and middle grade is skewed younger. So there's like kind of there's not a whole lot of books out there featuring like 14 to 15 year old protagonists. I think it's kind of a neglected space in the market. So I'm hearing editors say that they want

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Adria Goetz: they want something in that space, for, like a lot of people are like, what about the next princess diaries? What about the next sisterhood of traveling pants, where they have lovable, relatable characters. But they also have this like fun high concept hook.

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Adria Goetz: So we'll see how that unfolds. We'll see sometimes editors say they want to revive an area in the market, and then it doesn't happen. But I think it would be fun to see that

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Adria Goetz: and we're also just continuing to see a lot of editors want wanting magical speculative stories and kind of leaning away from

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Adria Goetz: quiet contemporary stories that are like when we're talking about kid lit, set in school. We're talking about adults set in the workplace like we just kind of don't want like normal stories. We want, you know, a little bit of magic which I'm happy to see because I love. I love magic tinged stories that is kind of my my

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Adria Goetz: favorite type of story to work on. Not necessarily something set in a second world. I always say, if there's like a map at the beginning of a book. It's not going to be for me. I get. I get overwhelmed by world building, where a story begins with like

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Adria Goetz: all these like laws and prophecies and kingdoms, and and the currency, and but if it's like just like set in our world. But there's a little pinch of magic. I am all about that. So that's yeah. That's what that's what I love.

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Lisa Schmid: We just spoke with Ivan Torresano, with Abrams and.

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Adria Goetz: And.

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Lisa Schmid: A couple weeks ago. Who's wonderful? I don't know if you've ever

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Lisa Schmid: to him, but he's really lovely, lovely guy. And he was saying, it's just they're like with middle grade. They're looking for more adventure. And you know, just moving away from those quiet, heavy books

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Lisa Schmid: that kids just want to. They're really feeling like kids want to escape. And we are all about that because it just it feels like over the last few years that books have gotten so heavy, and you know, with with different themes and angst and issue very issue driven. And are you seeing like a shift away from that.

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Adria Goetz: I mean.

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Adria Goetz: Listen there, there's always room in the market for something that is just so well done, and just so.

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Lisa Schmid: Right.

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Adria Goetz: So. But yeah, I would say, I'm definitely seeing editors pivot away from anything that's just like a normal kid

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Adria Goetz: at school dealing with stuff. So

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Adria Goetz: yeah, unless unless you have some sort of like super high concept hook that where the story just needs to be set

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Adria Goetz: in school, like, I'm yeah. Need needs to be set in school. Then then maybe you could get away with that. But yeah, definitely, a lot of interest in in magic and whimsy and fairy tales.

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Beth McMullen: I read recently that

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Beth McMullen: so you were talking about the mashups. That cozy fantasy is gaining a lot of traction, and the example they gave was the lord of the rings, except nobody ever leaves the shire. Everyone stays on the shire, and they solve a little mystery, and it's got the Shire Vibe, and I was cracking up. I was like that pretty much. Just sums up exactly what I think. This is.

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Adria Goetz: Oh, well, I mean, I have training.

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Beth McMullen: Like crazy lately.

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Adria Goetz: That is, yeah, I I actually use that example of like, that's, that is the type of story I want to read, because I always like felt that way, I'm like, but the hobbit hole is so cozy, and they have jam and like tea. And why would you leave to go to mortar like, it's stressful out there. And there's dragons. It's just like, yeah, that probably like says too much about my Psyche.

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Beth McMullen: I thought it was really funny, and they also said that

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Beth McMullen: they're looking for books that have or readers are looking for books that have a certain vibe, and that.

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Adria Goetz: Absolutely.

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Beth McMullen: Feeling, less plot, driven, less interested in the the meticulous building of the plot, and more interested in the characters and the coziness and the feelings of comfort and the quirky characters and stuff. And I thought, really interesting. I think there's a lot of opportunity there for people who write that kind of stuff.

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Adria Goetz: Oh, yeah. Well, that's why I loved working on a book called The Crescent Moon Tea Room, by Stacey Savinsky, because it's set

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Adria Goetz: in this magical tea room, where these sisters read tea leaf fortunes, and it's very low stakes, and it is just a warm hug of a book, and it's when when you need that comforting vibe like, that's that's the book for you. So yeah, I definitely lean in. I definitely want a specific vibe. When I, when I read just as a reader, so I totally understand that.

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Lisa Schmid: That sounds like in kind of in a way, like one of my favorite books. This last year was the house on the Civilian sea.

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Lisa Schmid: Oh, my God! I love that book! I cannot even tell you like I literally clapped at the end I would like, and the thing that I loved about that book

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Lisa Schmid: there was no real tension. Do you know what I mean? It was like? Because I'm a very anxious reader, and so like I will read, you know, the last chapter a lot of times if I start getting stressed out.

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Lisa Schmid: And so it was one of those things where the whole time I was reading it I just felt joy. That book sounds like that like that's that book just brought me so much joy, and I knew how it was going to end. You know, there's a big part of me that was like, I know, this is gonna how it's going to end. And even when it did, I literally closed the book and was like.

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Lisa Schmid: That's that's.

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Adria Goetz: Yeah, that's 1 of my that probably makes it into my like top 10 favorite. But.

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Lisa Schmid: Yes.

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Adria Goetz: Yeah.

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Beth McMullen: The books they named as an example of cozy fantasy. Where? Exactly what you're saying. You're not anxious. You're not stressed out, you know. It's going to work out. Okay? And you just love the ride.

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Beth McMullen: Yeah, love being in the book.

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Adria Goetz: Lisa, have you read the very secret society of irregular witches.

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Lisa Schmid: No, is that.

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Adria Goetz: Right.

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Lisa Schmid: That.

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Adria Goetz: You gotta you gotta yeah, yeah. It's this, like, witch goes to live in this like, live at this like boarding home for young witches. And she's basically they're like.

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Adria Goetz: almost like they're Mary Poppin, like she's like they're kind of their nanny, but she like teaches them how to do witchcraft, and it's very low stakes and lovely and cozy, and I love it.

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Lisa Schmid: That's my type of book, and I just I love that. Those are the kind of books I want to read, because I'm I'm such an anxious person in the world is such a crazy place. I don't want to feel anxiety when I'm reading a book or watching a show like if I see somebody on my

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Lisa Schmid: God, you're just you were just there. You guys were just fine. And now you're in trouble again. I'm gonna have to watch you another day, because it's too much.

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Adria Goetz: Yeah, I I don't like anything that revs up my nervous system. I always say.

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Lisa Schmid: Yeah.

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Adria Goetz: If there's a car chase scene, it's not for me.

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Lisa Schmid: Wow!

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Beth McMullen: I think that

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Beth McMullen: that's how the world is feeling right now. I think that's why these things are starting to trend pretty hard is because everybody is feeling like they want to escape, but they don't want to be. Have an anxious escape. They want it to be pleasant.

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Beth McMullen: And pleasurable, like like a nice cup of tea.

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Lisa Schmid: That's so true. I was just watching, and this is how sad I am, or pathetic. I was watching the skeleton crew. Which is this kind of goonies meet Star Wars on the Disney Channel. It's about these kids who get lost in space. And I was like they were just getting like to a certain point, and I'm like, Oh, they're home free! And then, all of a sudden, of course they weren't, and I'm like, Oh, my God! Like I can't. I can't handle another misadventure right now.

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Beth McMullen: Oh, yeah, we're just that's great.

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Beth McMullen: Just like broken creatures.

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Adria Goetz: Really, I feel like, like there are some good comforting books out there. I don't feel like there are enough comforting TV shows and movies, like, I think that's.

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Lisa Schmid: Chat.

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Adria Goetz: Reason why I rewatch Gilmore girls all the time because they

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Adria Goetz: they don't make shows like that anymore. They need to. If Hollywood's listening, please give.

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Beth McMullen: Please. We have a message for you. This is important. Get on it.

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Lisa Schmid: Adria, you need to start watching shows on the BBC. Like everything is very low, like, if you need recommendations, I'm obsessed with the BBC. It has.

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Adria Goetz: Yes.

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Lisa Schmid: If it has a British accent, I'm watching it. And so anytime my husband walks into the room, and he's like

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Lisa Schmid: a British, a British accent. This is so shocking because

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Lisa Schmid: it's always like the same crew cast of actors. There's like they go from almost like, you know, movie to, you know different show, but they're they're not high tension. They're almost like all cozy shows. And so that's all I do like. That's what I live off of like during all the craziness I'm like, I'm just gonna sit here and watch, you know, midsummer murders over on the BBC. And even though it's a murder, I'm like, I know they're going to catch them in the end, and nothing really bad is going to happen along the way.

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Adria Goetz: Please send. Please send me a list of recommendations.

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Lisa Schmid: Okay.

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Beth McMullen: We'll put, we'll put it in the podcast. Notes, too.

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Beth McMullen: So, Adria, that is, we're going to wrap up our time because we have kept you a a very long time, so thank you for bearing with us, and thank you for sharing all your experience and wisdom. I know our listeners are going to be very grateful for all of your advice, so thank you for being on the show.

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Adria Goetz: Absolutely thank you for having me.

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Beth McMullen: And listeners. Remember, you can find out more about Adria by visiting our podcast notes and the blog at writerswithwrinkles.net. And Lisa and I are back on February 17th with an ask, Beth and Lisa episode, please see the Podcast notes for how to submit a question for that episode or use any of our social channels, and send one there, and until then happy reading, writing, and listening.