69. The Impact of Queer Acceptance at a Young Age in Schools

Ever wondered how growing up queer in a multicultural environment shapes one's identity and career?

In this episode, we dive into the fascinating journey of Vinh Phillips Ingvason Nguyen (he/him), who navigated life as a queer person with a complex cultural background. Vinh's unique experiences of being adopted from Vietnam, raised in Sweden, and coming out at a young age offer valuable insights into the intersection of identity and education. If you're grappling with how to embrace your authentic self in a professional or personal setting, this episode is especially relevant.

Through our conversation you will discover:

• How embracing a spectrum of queerness can enrich your personal growth
• The importance of supporting others while respecting their boundaries
• Practical advice for advocating for inclusivity in education and beyond

Curious about how to balance authenticity and professional growth? Hit play now to hear Vinh's inspiring perspective!

Transcript

Bryan (he/they): [00:00:00] Hi Vinh Phillips, how are you doing today? 

Vinh Phillips (he/him): I'm great, thank you. How are you? 

Bryan (he/they): I am so great and so excited to be able to sit down with you. Can you tell everybody who's listening a little bit about yourself? 

Vinh Phillips (he/him): Yeah, so my name is Vinh Phillips. I go by hehim. I am adopted from Vietnam with Cambodian roots, but I grew up in Sweden, and that's where I am at the moment.

Bryan (he/they): I love that. I haven't interviewed anybody from Sweden or anybody who is from Vietnam. So that's pretty fantastic. I'm excited to have you on. Given that you've got such a multicultural background, what was life like for you as a queer student? 

Vinh Phillips (he/him): It was a very different thing because For me, the culture thing happened first, not my queer thing.

I was more, I was always comfortable being, I was queer and I came out when I was 11. And for me, it was natural to be queer and express my queerness. But for me, being adopted from another society, from another culture, I was more of a challenging society for [00:01:00] me. 

Bryan (he/they): That's so interesting. Did you feel like anything changed as far as how you expressed your queerness?

As a child, when you moved? 

Vinh Phillips (he/him): I came to Sweden, I was a half year, so Oh, 

Bryan (he/they): gotcha. So you were a baby when you came to Sweden. And so you grew up in a different culture from your birth, but you are were comfortable being your queer self starting at age 11, which is wild to me I came out where I was outed at age 14, so it's not that far off, but To be able to have that terminology and the ability to express who you are that young is just so wonderful.

I'm happy for you 

Vinh Phillips (he/him): Like I think I didn't know I was a queer for me. It was normal Everyone said oh i am in love with a girl I'm in love with a boy because back then we only used two genders for some reason and because i'm born 1995 so this was like two thousand and six and I would say that I was in love with a boy, and there was nothing more than that.

And a [00:02:00] few months later, I said I was in love with a girl. And had a girlfriend. But now I think that, yeah, I'm probably gay. I don't know. I don't put so much value to it. But it was definitely like, a different My queerness was different in different parts of my life. How I expressed it. 

Bryan (he/they): I think that's why I enjoy the term queers, because it is It is a spectrum.

It is very, various options without haVinhg to say one specific thing. Because I agree with you that at different times in my life I've been attracted to different people. And those different people run the spectrum of gender. It's not I think that sexuality is something that's more on a spectrum.

Where, in reality, we're falling for the person and not the body. 

Vinh Phillips (he/him): Yeah, I agree. And for me also I did my Bachelor's Degree in Gender Studies. Cool. Yeah, and I did that very much more to get to know myself. To be more authentic with myself. And also that's when I learned about intersectionality.

And, like, how you mix, like, how the gender and the [00:03:00] sexuality and how race and class and everything intersects with each other. And I think that's very important. interesting to talk about that because we're not one person all the time throughout life because it's like a dynamic. 

Bryan (he/they): I think that's a funny thing to like to really express in the sense that so many people will tag on to something that someone else said 20 years ago and they're like they said this 20 years ago and I'm like but they're not saying that now shouldn't they grow?

I had an argument with someone recently where they're like Joe Biden used to be anti gay and I was like Buddy's not right now! Aren't we supposed to grow and change? And shouldn't it not be like a stagnant box that we're saying, Okay, I'm eleven and here, this is who I am and that's who I am for the rest of my life.

That, that doesn't allow for maturity. 

Vinh Phillips (he/him): Yeah, I definitely agree. That's why sometimes I speak for myself and how I feel who I identify now. I might say, this is what I feel now. This is what I am now. I don't know for the future because I won't have space for me to grow however I want to [00:04:00] grow. And I feel like we should hold this space for other people too.

Bryan (he/they): Yeah, I love that so much. The idea of this is who I am right now. And I think that more people should probably embrace that kind of concept because you do really limit yourself when you say, this is who I am. And that's it. This is who I am and there's no changing that and I especially get frustrated when people are like they're of a different generation.

Okay. That's fine, but they can grow. Human beings can grow and learn things. And because they can grow and learn, they have the capacity to change. 

Vinh Phillips (he/him): That's what I also like about queerness because being outside the norm gives so much more space to think outside the box so you can maybe question more things in society and question yourself and see other way of liVinhg and what you feel like and I think it's beautiful.

Bryan (he/they): I think that's beautiful also I was just thinking as you were talking about how a lot of folks would focus on that like negative of being different or being outside of the norm but you just said something so wonderful which [00:05:00] is it gives you more freedom and I think that's absolutely correct. 

Vinh Phillips (he/him): Don't get me wrong, I got bullied as well for being queer.

But, and I don't say we don't experience negative things, but we also can take power for ourselves and take responsibility for what choices we make and actions we make for ourselves to feel better in the environment we are in. 

Bryan (he/they): Absolutely. I agree with that one hundred percent. So let's talk about your work in education.

What do you do in education and how does your experience from being a queer child kind of inform your work in education? 

Vinh Phillips (he/him): For me being a queer child, it was rough, not rough, but strange when I came out because I didn't know it was going to be such a big thing. I was just like, like in love with a boy and I was a boy, so like no biggie for me.

But then all the teachers in the secondary school had a Meeting with how to handle this kind of thing, how should they talk to me, what should they do, because I've never experienced it before, and But after that, when I get into high school and uni, I always was open queer, [00:06:00] and all my teachers were always so supportive, and I always looked up to them.

Because I knew I could go to them if I needed some support. Even if I didn't need support, it was like, somehow, safety for me. And that's something I take with me in my life when I educate people to be support for other people if they need me to be, but also not trying to push my support on them if they don't need it or don't want it.

Bryan (he/they): I think that right there is a key distinction that a lot of people need to learn to pick up on is to support when it's needed, but not to force support when someone doesn't want it. Like someone has to be willing to accept your help. 

Vinh Phillips (he/him): Yeah, so that's also I think what it means like to be a better listener and a talker.

So I can listen to see where they are at. So I can like change my communication or like the tools I'm using to get through to them on their level. Cause that's why I'm there in the first hand, I think. 

Bryan (he/they): Absolutely. And so thinking about your experiences, what kind [00:07:00] of things do you do when you're confronted with anti queer behavior?

Yeah. 

Vinh Phillips (he/him): I think it depends on what circumstance it is and how safe it is. And normally I try to speak up, but I, if I also feel that they get defensive very fast, I might not speak anymore because I don't think it's a space to have a conversation. So it really depends on how much energy you take from me and how much energy you would give.

So if they are if there's a space where they can get what I'm trying to get through to them, then I would speak up. But I think it's, you should choose your battles. 

Bryan (he/they): Absolutely. And I have a question that I did not prep you for, so are you okay with me asking one off the cuff? 

Vinh Phillips (he/him): Of course, it's okay. 

Bryan (he/they): So we've seen around the world that different countries are haVinhg this kind of conservative push from a, of a extreme right perspective.

Do you see the same thing happening in Sweden? 

Vinh Phillips (he/him): Both yes and no. In the Swedish election, we saw it. So we have a very right wing party [00:08:00] in Supporting the parliament now, like the government, because we don't have two sides. We have like many different small parties in Sweden. It's just very different from the United States.

Bryan (he/they): Yeah. We're supposed to have many different small parties, but for some reason we're stuck with this the dominant two parties have just been ruling since the existence of this country. And that drives me nuts. Let's use the system way it's supposed to be lots of options, like what you've got going on in Sweden.

Lots of parties involved. 

Vinh Phillips (he/him): Yeah, it's good and bad. Sometimes we don't have a government for a few months because we don't find collaborations between the parties. And sometimes, but I think it's, I think collaboration is always good. I think that's what we need in society. But also with the right wing, you also see the left wing now in the European election.

We had a left wing from coming from Sweden instead. 

Bryan (he/they): What is that haVinhg someone that's more on the left wing side of things? Do you think that it is a radical move, or is it something that seems more moderate? 

Vinh Phillips (he/him): It's not like I think the [00:09:00] Swedish politics is not so left or right as other countries.

It's still very much in the middle. Swedes are not taking that much of chances doing too risky moves. We always want to be in the middle and neutral as we say, although we are not. But yeah. 

Bryan (he/they): I get that a hundred percent. And it's funny because when you look at the scale, like an actual political scale of government and whatnot, from right wing extreme to left wing extreme, I think that for the majority of the U S we have spent a lot of time in that middle also.

And so it's interesting that There's one side that's pushing more extreme than the other where it's like a bunch of people trying to tug this side back to the middle. And so I'd be intrigued to see what happens if people started stepping into more of a liberal left wing feel. Maybe not going to the extreme, but if this is the middle and this is the extreme, then finding that other point that's [00:10:00] between those two that pushes us further in the direction of I don't know, doing what's right for human beings.

Vinh Phillips (he/him): Yeah, but I think that's what, why there's so many small parties in Sweden too, because those small parties can still push a little bit to not be too much in the middle. Yeah, I think it's a great thing, but also see like various, like I work, I don't work in school. I work in the civil society for non profit organizations.

That's where I educate people and we see a lot about in the civil society, like a force coming towards pushing against the right wings and I think it's very beautiful how organizations are trying to come together. 

Bryan (he/they): Absolutely. I think that the more we can work together, the better the world's going to be, just in general.

It's just trying to get people to sit and have a conversation without attacking one another. That is, it's becoming harder and harder to do for some reason. Thinking about being authentic and you were perfectly comfortable [00:11:00] being your little queer self. It was the teachers who were like, Oh, I don't know how to deal with this.

So if you were to talk to someone who is just starting out their career and they are worried about being their authentic self at work, what kind of things would you give them or what kind of advice would you give them? 

Vinh Phillips (he/him): Firstly, I haven't always been openly queer at my workplace.

It depends on where I've been working, I think, and also what stages in my life and other things happening in my life. So I think my advice would be that you should do it for yourself and no one, not from other people. I know that sometimes if being queer, some people expect from us speaking up for other queer people and for us to take the fight and I understand that to use other voices for the good and stuff, but I You also need to think about how it affects your mental health and if you are capable, if you're in that space at the moment.

So it's definitely okay to not be too authentic in the workspace, I think, if you're not there. But if you feel that you want to, then I think you should do it. So it depends, reflect on it [00:12:00] by yourself, I think. 

Bryan (he/they): Absolutely. I think that self reflection is so important, especially right now, because depending on where you are, it can be very trying to be yourself authentically.

Thinking about your work and you do more like a professional development training kind of work, right? For a nonprofit you're educating people in the non, in the nonprofit realm. What do you think that the educational community can do to be more inclusive of queer people? 

Vinh Phillips (he/him): I think they shouldn't be too afraid to collaborate like with LGBTQI people, right?

organizations. There's so much more to learn and we don't just stand for queer rights. Queer rights is also like human rights. It's so many more fundamental things we share together. So I think we should just not be too scared and be more like optimistic about how we can learn more perspective from each other because I think many people in organizations and workers in society wants the same thing but we just have different perspectives and both [00:13:00] can be very good to share.

Bryan (he/they): Absolutely. I think that listening to perspectives, just like we were talking about earlier it's so important. It's just hard right now to have those conversations. Mind boggling. At this point in the episode, we are white rinding down. And so we've got a question from one of our listeners. Today's question comes from Brittany from South Carolina.

And Brittany asks, with kind of education being so difficult right now, why stick around? 

Vinh Phillips (he/him): Because Think about in the first place why you choose to do it. Why you want to be educational. And think about that and how much passion. And think about your strength within. And think about doing it for yourself.

Because that's what you wanted to do. And we can't just give up because it gets tough. Because we faced tough times before in society. And we faced them and we have succeeded in many things. 

Bryan (he/they): Absolutely. I love one thing particularly [00:14:00] that you said, especially in the education field. A lot of people are like, think about your students, think about the people that you are working for, essentially.

And you said, think about yourself and why you wanted to do it in the first place. And I think that's so important because there's so much messaging that's telling people that we're doing it for someone else. This is a selfless, like educating people is selfless. You're giVinhg of yourself. But, I love it.

You're also giVinhg to yourself. This is something you wanted to do. You had a reason to do it and you need to like, focus back in on that. Why? So I think that, that's stellar. I wish that more people saw that. If you at home would like to have your question read on the podcast, then please click the ask a queer educator link on any of your podcasts, streaming devices.

Vinh Phillips, I just want to thank you so much for spending some time with me today. We've been trying to connect folks for a week or two and we finally get to sit down together and that just [00:15:00] makes me so happy. And I love your insight coming from Sweden and representing a new country on the podcast. So thank you so much.

Vinh Phillips (he/him): Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure.