78. How Coming Out As A Queer Educator Later In Life Created Strong Relationships With Students in Schools

Have you ever wondered what it’s like to come out later in life, especially when you’re a long-time educator in a conservative school district? 

In this episode, Tyler Murphy’s (he/him) and I discuss how to balance being true to yourself in a challenging environment.

Through our conversation you will:

• Gain insights into the challenges and triumphs of coming out later in life, particularly in a conservative setting.
• Discover practical strategies for being an authentic LGBTQ+ ally and educator.
• Learn how to support students and colleagues while navigating policies and personal growth in a professional environment.

Hit play now to hear Tyler’s compelling story and gain valuable advice on embracing your true self in any setting.

Transcript

Bryan (he/they): [00:00:00] Tyler, how are you doing today? 

Tyler (he/him): Well, I am doing great. my name is Tyler Murphy. I, am a Teacher I've been teaching now for oh god. It's a long time. Let me think this through uh for 30 30 plus years and I teach All sorts of sciences. I'm the coordinator for science in our building and I teach in a let's just call it a conservative school district In, suburban Pennsylvania.

I'm the G in the LGBT. That's what, that's I'm kind of an old G. not so old, but whatever. We'll get to it.

Bryan (he/they): Yeah.

Tyler (he/him): So as a queer student, I grew up in Christian school. and so if any listener understands what Christian school was like in the 80s, and so the 80s was that time when we only had cassette decks and things like that.

But, growing up in Christian school in the 80s, there was [00:01:00] no room to be queer. there was no alphabet that you could belong to. There was only what people told you that you could be. And so, the little queer boy that was inside of me had to stay camouflaged for the majority of my life. Growing up as a queer kid, humor became a huge thing for me.

It was an easy way to deflect. you could be everybody's friend, right? you could be that annoying person. You would have slightly, especially at Christian school, you would have that little bit of, like, inappropriate humor that, people would, want to hear a joke about. And so you've got that going for you.

I wasn't overly athletic, I was chubby. it was all those things to try to keep people on the outside from me. So that they didn't really know. Cause for the longest time I was just kind of wrestling with all of it. always the friend, but never the boyfriend. [00:02:00] Right? When you're unrequited, you know, you're just trying to figure out who you are.

So As a queer kid, I would say that, and I was in Christian school from second grade through twelfth grade. because my parents wanted to save me from the evils of public school, just to be clear. full circle public school teacher, gotta love that. and then I went on to Christian college after that.

So I doubled down on it and made sure that, let's just say that by the time I entered college, my closet was very well made. 

Bryan (he/they): sure it was 

Tyler (he/him): I really love that you used the word camouflage, because I 

Bryan (he/they): think about it from a military standpoint, that camouflage is used to keep yourself hidden, but also keep yourself safe in times of combat.

And when you're a young person, and you are closeted, Often times any kind of social situation feels like a place of combat. [00:03:00] And you were talking about using humor, to kind of deflect. And I've been kind of reflecting on my life, wondering whether or not some of my outgoing characteristics were a ploy to kind of make people like me enough that they didn't question it.

Tyler (he/him): if they did question it, it was like a minor question, right? You were like someone that was on TV, so it was moderately acceptable? 

Bryan (he/they): Yeah, absolutely. And so what's funny is it's like, I look at things that I did, and some of it is me and some of it is like my family. When I was very, very young, my cousin and I, we're three months apart, we used to compete in like children's beauty pageants and stuff.

And so there were things that I have done that are like, Avertly queer. I was a theater kid. I was a band kid. I was a choir kid. Like, I did all the stereotypical things. But I also played baseball, and I was very up going, and I loved [00:04:00] Power Rangers, and I used to play Fight all the time, you know?

And so, it's like, I look back and go, I wonder what was actually me, and what was me masking. 

Tyler (he/him): Such a good point. so, fun fact again, I didn't come out until I was 51. So, let that mic drop for a second there. Right. Very baby gay right here. I've only been out for about three and a half years now. and have been married and I have two kids.

So, when I say my closet was comfortable, Like, I made sure that that thing was comfortable. Was taken care of. but one of the things that you were saying about in terms of masking is I think that we More so than I think kids do today is that we had to find ways That we could fit in and carve our niche without really standing out.

So it was either humor or Like my partners would be it was intelligence and [00:05:00] so if it was theater, you know, you had your own family in theater, right? Theater, theater kids are their own kids. They always have been. or you have band as a family. but if you're in the general population, GenPOP, we'll use a good prison analogy for school, and, just to be clear, I had 20 kids in my graduating class.

I was with those kids from most of them knew me from second grade through twelfth grade. So we were kind of a weird dysfunctional family. and I was just the Charles Nelson Reilly of the class kind of thing. 

 I don't even know how else to like go for that, but we'll just use it. I would definitely say that we had to figure a way to fit in. And, it's amazing when I look at my kids today who are so much braver than I was.

Uh, and are willing to just stand out in themselves. Right? If you were to ask them what it was like to be a queer kid, [00:06:00] they would still say they have struggles and they take heat from people and things like that, but they stand in who they are. And, oh my god, I don't feel like I was standing for the longest time.

So, it's a weird juxtaposition to be a queer educator, and have that perspective. Thank you. 

Bryan (he/they): Absolutely. And one of the things that you, we were talking about beforehand was this, the question, you know, what was life like for you as a queer student sometimes trips people up because of the closet.

and I think one of the changes that we would see if I asked this question to someone who's younger now is that they have a queer student life, they have a queer life now that they can relate to. Whereas many of us who are older There's a lot of kind of a wall of I was this person and then I came out Correct.

And so the fact that people are able to be themselves at a younger age is wonderful and kind of changes that dynamic [00:07:00] Because I think that while I recognize all this queerness from my childhood and I was outed at 14 i've had a long time to feel comfortable with myself I have a lot of people that I talk to who don't see their life as queer until they were starting to think about their sexuality and coming out.

Because hiding was so intense that you didn't think you were having queer moments because you were trying to avoid queer moments at all costs. 

Tyler (he/him): A hundred percent. and you bring up a good point. I think you had said earlier that when we come out, One of the things is we have to kind of decide what we're going to keep.

That's us. and what was like put on. Either we put on ourselves or society puts on us as to what we, and I think today they don't have as many of those things. which is a beautiful thing. I have queer kids in the hallway who are just friends and they know that they're queer and they're out and they talk about their [00:08:00] relationships and you're like, wow.

Like that's amazing. You know, when you think about it, my daughters are 25 and 20. And so they constantly talk about how it was for them and friends of theirs. And, it was never an issue.

Right. And I'm like, man, you know, I would say that if we were in high school in 1987, 88, it was the issue. Right, to try to avoid. So it's, it's really interesting to see that juxtaposition. 

Bryan (he/they): And I would double down on that and say that I went to high school in 1998 to 2002 and it was still an issue. 

Tyler (he/him): thanks for making me feel really old there, but yes, to your point, yes, No, no, you're, you're good, Bryan, you're good.

Bryan (he/they): The fact that it was so stigmatized, and part of that has to do with coming out of the 80s and early 90s with the AIDS epidemic. Correct. And all of this negative publicity and rhetoric around gay men, specifically gay men. so it was a lot harder. I feel like [00:09:00] the women in my life, the young women that I was in high school with, who, there was like a gang of lesbians that I hung out with, and they were all like very comfortable with that.

Themselves. Mm-Hmm. . it was a lot easier in some aspects because they weren't surrounded by death, just by, you know, being named a gay man. 

Tyler (he/him): Right. 

Bryan (he/they): But I want to talk a little bit about your experiences in education And how, like camouflaging and even coming out later in life. 

Tyler (he/him): so that's a, that's a big, that's a, that's a big nut to crack right there.

so as I said, I came out in, I guess 21. So, yeah, that was also the year that my school district put in a, policy, that took down all pride flags. It took down everything that could be considered political. Like that's, that was the line that they went through. the board at the [00:10:00] time was fully Republican and they were very much concerned that we were going to be, you know, teaching their kids gender theory and whatever buzzwords that they want to use.

There's certain words I just, and I'm going to, Allow them to use anymore. So I'm not even gonna say them, but we all know what they are. and so I come out during this time now, not out like, ta-da, like velour and all, like, yes, I'm not exactly right. it wasn't that. my partner makes fun of me because I, I'm, I'm such a, I don't know how he described it, but, 

Typical, maybe, is too light a word. But like, it was October, so of course I came out in October, right? Because it's coming out month. And so, I planned this thing after, my marriage had ended in the spring. And I started to kind of figure out who I was. I started to, realize that this is what I was going to do.

And so while I'm figuring all this ish about [00:11:00] myself out, All this is going on at school at the same time. So as I'm becoming proud of who I am, the things that symbolize pride are coming down. So it was, it was scary. And it was interesting because, like I said, Christian school experience, right? You're used to hiding.

And here I am at this point where I'm like, You know, I'm 57 years old. I'm not hiding anymore. And then here I am feeling that same feeling again. Interestingly enough, I had students in class that were openly, queer and were okay talking about it. As I teach science, so lab, I don't know if you've ever watched a lab group before, but all they do is talk like the lab takes 10 minutes, but the conversation takes 40.

Right? That's why I love science. You talk more. And so their conversations would be there and I would just roam through and get to hear all of that. [00:12:00] And sometimes I would add in and, they would include me. And it was good for my mental health to see that there was these conversations.

But all the while I had to be very conscious that I wasn't leading anyone in a way that led to something, right? and then in December I come out to my family, I'm out to everyone at work by January, cause I'm like dating and things like that, so I wanted to be As open as possible and I know this gets to one of our questions about how do you be authentic at work?

And one of the things was I was including people in what dating is like as a gay man now I'm not not all of it. Let's pump the brakes because I know some people are like, what have I tuned into? but It was especially 50s, right? That's a whole new experience. and so That next year, that was kind of like how things were.

and then, so, here's where the rubber meets the road to our question. so, [00:13:00] that year, within the next year, I meet my partner. By 22, I meet my partner. his name is Shane. And, I fall for this guy, right? He may have fallen for me, too.

and so, I have decided that, I want to have a picture of him on my desk. But the policy says that only certain things are allowed, right? But family pictures are one of them. But I needed to ask, because you gotta be sure, right? You can't be caught up in this mess. It took eight weeks for the district office to get back to me.

And they got back to me with, well, of course you can have a family picture up. And I sent back a question, because this is how my mind works now, and I sent back and I said, okay, but when people ask who that is, what am I permitted to say? Can we just hang that question in the air for a second?

What am I permitted to [00:14:00] say? 

Bryan (he/they): Isn't it ridiculous that 

Tyler (he/him): Right. And like I was mad at myself for asking, like I should have been like middle, two middle fingers up and just done it, right? but I, I wanted to do this the right, I didn't want to give them any footing. Um, and so then I got like no answer back.

And so I had to ask, a building principal what to do. And the building principal, let it be known she's an ally, and she said family is family. So you do, if your family looks like this, then that's the picture that's there. And if people ask, you tell them who your family is. Right? Balling. Right?

That's the kind of thing. And, it was one of those things where you were like, still waiting. I waited two more weeks from district office and they said, well, you should have, if you have conversations with kids, you should just be, cognizant of what you say to them. What am I going to say, exactly?

Like, they're [00:15:00] so, and you know this, Bryan. Their assumption is that our life is defined by sex, and so, that is it. 

Bryan (he/they): Yep, that's why I hate the term, like, homosexuality. Because the word sex places people in this weird mind space. While they're also forgetting that heterosexuality exists. Right. 

Tyler (he/him): Right.

And so my, so my, when you said to me, what's it like being a queer teacher, my first year of coming out, I had to deal with being, of losing all symbolism, and then finding someone, and then having to ask permission to do that. so I ran the gamut of emotions, let's just say. 

At the end of the next year, so Shane and I have been together now two years, right? and I proposed to him And shared that on Instagram Right before my kids graduated high school, my kids, my, [00:16:00] my classes, right? Net, I didn't say it, didn't tell them, nothing like that, just did it that way. And the outpouring, like at graduation, the number of kids that were like coming up and saying all these things and things like that.

And it was the greatest, validation you could have hoped for because I was playing it correctly. And so from there, the cat was out of the bag. So I started the 23 24 year, as open. And my students knew it. And so, it was one of those things where they would talk to me, suddenly someone would ask me like, Hey, did you see Drag Race over the weekend?

Like, that's funny. Or they're like, Hey, have you heard, I mean, October of 23, they're like, did you hear this new artist called Chapel Roan? Have you heard her? like, these are the kinds of things that, like Renee rap was all popular talk in the fall. And so, so it was one of those things where like now suddenly it's interesting to watch where I was so [00:17:00] anxious about, and it just reminded me of the feelings I had back in high school and college and, and being anxious and then realizing that, Anyone that I've ever told has been more than accepting and wonderful.

And so that's the story I end up telling kids when they ask me about coming out. It was a huge fear. Because it's a risk, right? It's a risk. You're trusting someone. So yeah, being a queer educator is a constantly evolving process at the school in which I work. 

Bryan (he/they): What are some things that you would do if you're confronted with anti queer behavior?

Tyler (he/him): So, at a union meeting, I wore a shirt that said something like, if you deny my existence, expect my resistance. and someone was talking about it back at their building or somewhere else, and it got reported that I wore this shirt. Now, I wore it under a sweatshirt at school because that would never have been loud.

That's, you know, you can't wear that. That's a political [00:18:00] statement, basically. So, it got reported that that had happened, and I had to have a meeting with people about me breaking this policy, right? And at first, I was gonna be like this whimpering simp and be sorry. And I remember like sitting in bed with Shane talking to him about it and just feeling like I'm dealing with like Fear and regret and this thing of like are they're not gonna like me And then I'm like, but then I'm angry and I'm like, why is anyone even care about a shirt that I wore?

after school Like those are all things right? So I decided That I was not going to be And I took photos of myself in the shirt. I did them, so I teach criminology, just so you know. So I did them like a lineup, in our bedroom against a [00:19:00] bare wall. So you should, I, I told Shane I wanted him to mark like height markers on the wall.

Cause I wanted it to look full out. And I did it with the shirt on and I looked like, you know, like anyone in a lineup should never look good. So I made sure I didn't look good. I know it's hard to imagine. And then, I did one with like the sweatshirt that I wore and where it was zipped to, right?

And I did a series of them for this meeting. So we go to this meeting and I, you know, they're like, well, they're trying to read the words on the shirt and I'm like, this is what it says. Matter of factly, I'm like, in fact, here's what it looks like and I slide my phone across the table and Zoom in so they can see it right and I'm not a small man So this shirt is big right they should be able to read the words and so they read through it I'm like, that's what it's I said, but this is what I look like during the day and I swiped left of course and as I did They could [00:20:00] see that they couldn't see what was on the shirt And I watched them swipe back, and swipe again, and I sat back in my chair, and I said, I broke no rule here.

I said, I wore that, this is what I looked like before 3 o'clock, and this is what I looked like after 4 o'clock in the afternoon on my time. So, where's the problem? And then, they backpedaled, there was apologies, there were even tears at some point from people because I had laid out basically my experience and what it was like.

cause I wanted them to know, and I want to give full credit to the people on the other side of the table cause they all received it really well, and I know they were doing their job, right? We all have parts of our job we don't like. So I'm gonna give them an ounce of grace on that one. But you sit there and you think to [00:21:00] yourself, is this what I'm gonna be dealing with for the rest of my life?

And am I going to receive it and just be like, or am I gonna fight it? And clearly, my decision was to fight. And so that's how, when I see it now, I, and maybe it's because I've been in the closet so long, Or maybe it's because I've only been gay for so long, right? Like, my partner will say that I'm such a baby gay.

But maybe because I haven't been in the fight for so long that I feel like I have to make up for it. So I'm ultra sensitive to the situation. and I will defend myself or my kids. I had students this year who, the Gay Straight Alliance didn't really want to participate in something. They didn't like the idea of being put on stage.

There's a lot of trans kids in the group and they deal with a lot of bullying at school. And so the, admin was really kind of cajoling them into doing it. [00:22:00] And like, this is a good thing. And I have to give them credit. They stood up and they were like, no. And then I went to the admin later, and I said, don't make these kids do this.

They lead every day just by being them. don't make them lead the way we think they should lead. So, yeah, I'm probably a pain in the neck, but not the neck. 

Bryan (he/they): Yeah, but I think it's necessary. I also think that that's one of the things where, I've stepped in with admin in the past as well, about wanting to push for something that the students weren't buying into, and it's like, if we're here to serve the students, we need to listen to the students, and if they don't want to do this, we need to accept that they have autonomy, and that they should not be forced to do something they don't want to do.

Tyler (he/him): And that goes for both, that's on both [00:23:00] ways, right? Like, there are times where maybe there are people who feel like the gay kids are the only, or the, the LGBTQ at school, the GSA at school, is the only representation of, of queer at school, so they have more responsibility. But that's a lot to ask of anyone.

some 9th and 10th grader that's just starting to figure themselves out, and you want to like. Put that responsibility on them. That's a lot. Let them just have a time to be them, you know, with other queer kids in a club for a little bit. And if they want to become something else, then let's let them do it.

But, you're right. It's just one of those things where I think we push, sometimes a little too hard. 

Bryan (he/they): Absolutely. When it comes to showing up authentically at work, what advice would you give someone who is maybe worried about that? 

Tyler (he/him): So, as I said, I can't have, right, flags and things like that.

[00:24:00] so I decided I would be the flag. Pun intended. And I am, my kids know who I am. So, I am trying to be able to show them, this is what a gay man's life looks like. I'm not necessarily, showing up, with, like, nails painted or hair done, hair dyed. None of that, none of that, I'm too old for that, right?

In my head, I'm too old for all that. I, I feel I'm too old for that. it's my Christian school upbringing. And, but I don't necessarily need the sign to say safe space, but I can make sure that every kid knows that it's safe, because I'm not going to allow certain, certain things to be said, and I'm also going to make sure that those kids that feel like they don't have a voice have a voice.

So I've kind of decided within myself within the last, especially within the last [00:25:00] year, that I was going to have to be just me and be able to talk about my life with Shane, raising kids. When Shane and I go away, I post pictures of our vacation. Kids ask about it. I love music, right? And so, I am constantly trading off music with kids.

I always have music playing when we do lab. I have, all different types of titles on my playlist. So my Gays Be Gay ing playlist always gets a request because there's like all kinds of things that kids want to listen to while they're working. You know, you can only hear so much gaga after a while and you're just like, all right guys, can we switch it up?

Can I hear some Noah Khan or something? let's go. and Taylor's always, at the top of their list. When I was in the closet, and I was married, I would always share my life. I shared what it was like as a dad, my kids I'm doing the same thing now.

Because [00:26:00] there's no difference. 

Bryan (he/they): There's 

Tyler (he/him): no difference. 

Bryan (he/they): no difference. 

Tyler (he/him): That's correct. The only difference is my partner is a man now. That is the difference. My kids respect him. One of my kids lives with us, right? And so, My students see me just as a walking, talking example of just a different choice of how I am living, in terms of, just how I'm sh I'm, but my sharing part is not changing.

Bryan (he/they): Well, I mean, what's intriguing over the next couple of years is that you're gonna start getting into students who only know you as who you are now. Yeah, and you've had students who have seen you married to a woman and seen you engage to a man. And so it'll be interesting to see if those relationships get [00:27:00] stronger.

Cause watching someone's journey and being a part of someone's journey, it helps connect you. So it'll be interesting, you know, just going into this next couple of years where You are experiencing children who've only known you? now? 

Tyler (he/him): Oh, a hundred percent.

It was funny that you say that, Brian, because at the end of last year, I had my juniors and seniors were like, so do we get to come to the wedding? and when I got married the first time, back in 1992, I did have students at my wedding. Again, that's just the way I live my life.

And so I told them, I said, Yeah, I said, I don't see why the wedding wouldn't be open. I said, but we are not paying for everyone at a reception. Like, let's be very clear about this. You know, your ticket only gets you so far. but they are, they're here for that. And, they like to hear the details of it.

So, it's really fun being that. I want to say one other [00:28:00] thing. It's not just the kids, though. The people that I work with, my school family, right? I think they would say that I am probably the best form of myself that I've ever been since. and they're like the greatest thing ever. I really, I really lucked out with them.

Bryan (he/they): That's fantastic. And it's good to hear, right? Being your authentic self really does make an impact on not only you, but the group around you gets to see. They get to see all this part of you that you weren't able to show. 

Tyler (he/him): Right. And you know, the stuff that's dropped off is stuff that you just didn't even need anymore.

Indeed. 

Bryan (he/they): You've got quite a bit of educational policy working against you at the moment, and so I'm curious as to what you think the educational community can do to be more inclusive of queer people. 

Tyler (he/him): That's a tough one.

The educational community, I know we had said, like, educational community. What does [00:29:00] that ultimately mean? for many of us, it's, it's school boards, right? and we have groups and factions that are constantly trying to, to, for lack of a better word, infiltrate school boards to put policies in place that, limit people.

if we're going to say as a county, as a district, as a state, right, as a nation, that we care about education, then we need to care about educating everybody. And if we're not looking at policies that do not treat everyone the same way, and we have policies that are like that, then we are not out to educate everyone.

Bryan (he/they): I agree with that. I think about, you know, Stay away from our kids group. And at the same time I look at the [00:30:00] violence against trans and queer kids and I go, well, stay away from our kids. We're just trying to make sure those kids survive. Why is it that you feel the need to persecute these children? 

Tyler (he/him): Right. Like, why do you have to step on the backs of somebody else's kid in order to make your kid feel safe?

And as a parent of girls, I still don't get it. It's something that, you know, I want you to know, like, we were completely taken over by that group at school. And our community, I don't know what kind of juice they drank, but there was a movement and they rebuffed and got them out and they are now looking at trying to peel back some of these policies.

So, you know, if we were to talk again in a year, I could hopefully say that the stuff that we're saying is in existence now is [00:31:00] no longer. I want to say that as much as we have times where there are groups that are trying to hold us back, then the pendulum swings. And so at my school, the pendulum is moving, and it may not always move as fast as we like it to, but it's moving.

So I'm going to take that. 

Bryan (he/they): Absolutely. At this point we have a question from one of our listeners. Today's question comes from Oscar, and Oscar asks, Why education? 

Tyler (he/him): wow. Okay. So, I guess Oscar means why am I even in education. is that how you're taking it, Bryan? Because that's how I'm taking it.

Bryan (he/they): Okay. 

Tyler (he/him): I'm gonna say education chose me. I was a physical therapy major when I went to college. I went to Messiah University in central Pennsylvania. It was only Messiah College then. I don't get too much credit for the university [00:32:00] part. I was physical therapy major and I knew exactly what I was going to do.

I think it was the fall of my sophomore year, my advisor, I was sitting in his office and he slid a schedule over. his giant desk to me. for younger listeners, they don't even understand the concept of, like, that your schedule was kind of, like, built for you to some degree. Like, I didn't have a lot of choice.

I had kind of a, I had a major minor running, and so, there, my life had been planned for me, kind of situation, right? and he slid this over to me, and I looked at it, and there was this, you know, elective in the spring and in my course load I could only have two electives for the entire four years that I was there, right?

And so for one of them, he put in intro to education and I looked at him and his name is Dr. Noel Falk. He's probably one of the biggest influences in my life for teaching and I looked at Noel and I [00:33:00] said You've gotta be kidding me. Like, what are you thinking here? And he's like, Tyler, we hear the comments that you make during lecture.

Like, we hear you in class. And I'm like, There's part of me that's like, oh, you hear me? Like, oh, that's kind of nice. And then at the other time, you're like, oh, they hear me. there's that. Humor, again, like you're in a lecture hall of 300 people and your voice, your criticism is being heard. Oh, that's going to go over really well, right?

So apparently the science department, had a, had a powwow and, circled the wagons and decided that if I'm gonna talk such a big game about what I think a teacher should be, I should actually do it. And so, Noel was elected to, because he was my advisor, and so, I took Intro to Ed, I walked into that class, and Dr.

Stephen Hayes was in there, and Steve looked at me the first day and said, you're, you're Tyler Murphy, [00:34:00] right? And I'm like, do I have a badge on? Like, what? And he's like, yeah, he's like, he's like, Noel told me about you, and I'm like, oh, no, like, that can't be good. It was the best thing I ever did. I took that class.

it was this, it's a nice easy elective, right? Like, it wasn't something to be challenging about, but it really whet my appetite, to the point where I went home and I had to tell my parents that I was changing my major, and my mother had already picked me up. Made up her mind that her son was gonna be wearing like a white coat, right?

And be like my son the physical therapist and I mean I still wear a white coat just on lab days But when I had to tell her I was switching to education I She was a little crestfallen because I think she thought the prestige and the money and all those things were not gonna be there And then I went and taught Christian school for 10 years.

So I definitely had no money from that but if Noel hadn't [00:35:00] taken an interest in me. even though I might have been annoying, slightly annoying. And said to me, we see this in you, right? I would not be in education. It's his fault, for everyone's sake. So, to answer the question why education, somebody thought that I would be good at this, and they were right.

and so when I have students, I typically try to encourage them, especially those that talk about going into school, and my first question is, are you sure? Right? And so we talk about things, and then I always let them know, matter of factly, if I think they're going to excel in it. Because that's what he did for me.

It was such a moving moment, like I look back on it now, and I'm like, man, he thought he was like the godfather, right? With his plants and his taxidermy around him, but, they're trying to paint you a good mental picture, but yeah, so education chose me and, I have been all the better for it.

Bryan (he/they): And thank you, Oscar, for [00:36:00] your question. If you at home want to hear your question right on the podcast, you can click the Ask a Queer Educator link wherever you listen. Tyler, I just want to thank you so much for taking some time to talk with me. I really appreciate your story. I appreciate how vulnerable you were.

There was one moment of almost tearing up, so I really appreciate that you were so comfortable sharing that with everybody here. 

Tyler (he/him): Well, you're more than welcome. I remember seeing this, pop up and I thought, this, it's just something I have to do. because there are people like me out there, right, trying to figure out who they are, and they might be a lot younger.

But we're all on that journey of trying to figure it out. And the more you can surround yourself with people who allow you to be you, you know, then the richer you are for it, so.