Everything is BS
Navigating the Wedding Industry: A Guide for Entrepreneurs Pt. 2
Are you prepared to revolutionize your wedding photography business? Brace yourself for an enlightening journey as we explore tried-and-tested marketing strategies that pack a punch, emphasizing the art of delivering superior customer service. We dig deep into the psychology behind effective marketing, examining the power of seven exposures and how to make each one count. We also discuss the role of trust-building, the impact of wedding photography platforms and how to ensure a high return on investment.
As we navigate through the intricacies of running a successful business, we consider the importance of work-life balance and the need to acknowledge and appreciate those who support us. We delve into the power of scarcity as a marketing strategy and the value of a well-managed email list. As prices rise, we discuss how to set expectations and build a robust client base, all while being human and relatable.
Wrapping up our journey, we delve into the fine art of sustainable growth. What does it mean to market authentically? How can you raise prices without alienating your loyal clients? And what can fellow business owners offer in terms of support and community? We answer these questions and more, ensuring you leave with a toolbox of strategies to boost your business. Lastly, we believe in the importance of enjoying what you do, so come and rediscover your passion with us.
Are you prepared to revolutionize your wedding photography business? Brace yourself for an enlightening journey as we explore tried-and-tested marketing strategies that pack a punch, emphasizing the art of delivering superior customer service. We dig deep into the psychology behind effective marketing, examining the power of seven exposures and how to make each one count. We also discuss the role of trust-building, the impact of wedding photography platforms and how to ensure a high return on investment.
As we navigate through the intricacies of running a successful business, we consider the importance of work-life balance and the need to acknowledge and appreciate those who support us. We delve into the power of scarcity as a marketing strategy and the value of a well-managed email list. As prices rise, we discuss how to set expectations and build a robust client base, all while being human and relatable.
Wrapping up our journey, we delve into the fine art of sustainable growth. What does it mean to market authentically? How can you raise prices without alienating your loyal clients? And what can fellow business owners offer in terms of support and community? We answer these questions and more, ensuring you leave with a toolbox of strategies to boost your business. Lastly, we believe in the importance of enjoying what you do, so come and rediscover your passion with us.
Hey guys, you're listening to part two of the BS podcast. If you did not catch part one of this week's episode, go ahead and hit that back button towards the previous episode. Otherwise, we look forward to seeing you there but I think the I mean.
Speaker 2:So it's hard. I've definitely paid for, like you know, targeted ads on like Instagram or something, but it's like five bucks here and there. I'm not. I don't pay for ads, I don't pay for marketing, I don't pay for Google, anything I don't. I've never paid for the, not, I've never paid for wedding wire.
Speaker 2:I've almost been roped into things like that. I'm not a Quote-unquote paid preferred vendor at any of the venues that I shoot at I. It's funny because I feel like most of my marketing Techniques that I learned in college almost went by the wayside for me, because my my biggest goal with my business and the way in which I was marketing was literally Getting word of mouth by providing an excellent service. I wanted to go to a wedding. I wanted to be able to put my cards on a DJ stand and if somebody liked what they saw me do, that's how they would, you know, contact me, that's how they would know about it, and I've always carried business cards. I've always stuck them in coffee shops and All of that. But I found that I was. I would go home from a wedding and I would already have two or three inquiries from a guest who saw me sitting at a table and just decided to reach out. Then in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it is so funny that, like you took the total, almost opposite realm not and not in the way of like you obviously were providing an excellent service, but you hit the ground running with paid advertisements and you're obviously you know you're re upping Accidentally, maybe on your not subscription or something like that.
Speaker 1:That's that's why I don't like them. You don't get. You don't get an email notification that says, hey, you're gonna be re upped in a week. You know, are you sure you want to do this? They just do it and it's right. I know a lot of businesses do that, but for for the price that you pay. It seems really Fucking shady to me to do that, so I'm there was a New York Post article that just came out too.
Speaker 1:Whether or not you trust the New York Post, different story but there was a post article that a inner a my god, a reporter published two weeks ago about the wedding where the knot and they're getting caught in some Some shady shit with their marketing. So I'm this why I'm on on train. You know, I'm my, my feelings are correct. I had these feelings for a little bit and I'm ready to move out, but I have to wait.
Speaker 2:So right now. You have to wait until your subscription is actually done, Whatever so set in your calendar like okay, next year around this time, yep, yeah you are correct.
Speaker 1:Now it's not like I haven't gotten. I mean, I've recently acquired a wedding that originated from a contact that came from the knot, so I am getting it. But you, you have to look at the overall return on investment. It's right.
Speaker 2:Are you just making the money back for you know you having this.
Speaker 1:It's a waste of time.
Speaker 2:That it's a waste of time because you could get one organically from another wedding where you didn't pay to have it. Advertise on the knot, but you're average the best. I think the best advertising for your business is being able to provide a service where other people are going to speak your name and talk about the experience with you.
Speaker 2:So if you're at a wedding and you're like literally most of the weddings that we are at, have a minimum of a hundred people who are Seeing you do your craft right there. Yep, you know, and a lot of the time they'll even reach out before they even see your edits, which you I would love to hear about the the uptick possibly in. You know you display wedding photos at the reception, which is something that a lot of photographers do. It's not?
Speaker 1:something.
Speaker 2:I do. I feel like I take way too long to edit stuff so I can't like. I feel like I physically like don't have that in my body to do at a reception. But I would love to hear about how that has affected your business by starting to show your photos before the wedding is even over, and then you're having people look at you going Whoa, like you know, I want to reach out to that guy like have you seen an uptick in your sales since starting that service?
Speaker 1:So I'm gonna hit two notes here. So we do two questions in that. So I'm gonna come back to the. I'm gonna come back to the Same day at it at the wedding.
Speaker 1:Previously you were talking about your experience and in how it's important to you for your marketing that you, you know, give your business cards on the table and you just provide it. You know a damn good experience and someone's gonna notice that someone at the wedding that also could be getting married. I first thoughts on that. So this is my what I'm gonna go to expect some photographers would Rebuttal with or struggle with. That method only Works if you have the weddings to go to. So but how do you get the weddings to begin with? How do you start when you're trying to transition? If you want to do this, you know you're like I really want to get away from my corporate career and move into this realm and I don't want it to take five years. I want to get there a little bit sooner. What do I need to do to do that?
Speaker 1:Brooke is not wrong. That word of mouth, personal experience, or call it the handshake right, is the the most trustworthy, organic, best way that you can pull somebody in, the best type of marketing, because some of my best clients that I've ever worked with were ones who were with me in person. Maybe they were part of the wedding party and you know they just loved the whole thing how I did it, and so there's a trust. I mean, there's no better trust than to literally physically meet you or I in person and see us work. That's that's the dream for any business, right? That's before you go and buy something, you maybe it's a huge purchase, you want to go, a friend has it and you're like well, can I go to your house and see it first? Like there's, you need to Physically be there or try the product, or that's the concept of free trials in marketing, so that you're proving your product.
Speaker 1:That's how we do it in our world is we provide photos on Instagram and such. But if you can see us how we work, man, yeah, no better way. But how do we cross that bridge to get to get there? How do we get there so that we have enough weddings to even? Because we're not gonna get a wedding every time from every wedding, only some will. So how do we fill in that space? Brooks, like now I get everybody every Possible shooing them away.
Speaker 1:Too many, no so there, this is where that there's two different you know I'll say two different realms of marketing, but there's all. There's different types of marketing and the intro intro marketing to a new product or service. It is hard, it's really hard, and that's where I talk about the concept of of hustle and if, depending on how fast you want to get into or break into a business, what do you need to do? And I always say diversify is a great you know, just the concept of diversity in your marketing is important because, so that rule of the rule of seven right now, whether or not that's a hundred percent true, I'm sure there's a more Modern way to look at this, but it's the rule of seven.
Speaker 1:Where to trust a business. I got to see your placement seven times and whether that's Instagram, pinterest, website, google ad, whatever, like, go through how in person, meet, go through the whole thing, but, generally speaking speaking, there's a psychology to seeing a business seven times and then there's a trust of like okay, this is a legitimate business that is worth my time to check it out.
Speaker 2:It's not always the exact way Seven times and not with negative review.
Speaker 1:Yes, seven positive experiences or things, or just physically seeing your business. It doesn't have to be exactly seven, it's not always going to be exactly seven, but that's just a general psychological rule of thumb that you need to diversify and be able to see your business in more than one location in a good light. But, without a doubt, yeah, the best experiences I've had from finding couples for a lot of the time has been through organic. They were there and they saw my work. So it's so obviously important to provide an incredible experience everywhere you go, and one way I do that this is part two of your question is to do something like same day edits, which I do not do.
Speaker 1:I can't do every time because there's a lot of things that are that depend on how the day goes, how much you know how my staff is, whether it's a second shooter or an assistant. You know how does the wedding vibe do, what basically do I have time and is it? I don't want to say is it worth it, but is it going to provide value? That doesn't take away value from the main reason I'm there. That's the key point.
Speaker 1:Where, or if the couple is a very which I learned this as well if the couple is maybe shy, doesn't want the first photos that they see of themselves to be shared with the whole room, for whatever reason that would be me, that would be my it's, it's a real thing and it's very hard to know that unless you a have spent a lot of time with this couple, understood them, asked all the right questions in all of your pre meetings, and or just trust your gut that this maybe isn't a good idea, because I have gone down the path of being blinded I say dramatically being blinded by just getting that.
Speaker 1:I just want to get it done. I just, you know, I was my goal. I'm going to do same day edit every single time and they're going to love it, and then I'm either rushing or picking photos that maybe I shouldn't have nothing aggressive, just ones that I could have picked better, yeah, and maybe needed a quick edit. It could be something as simple as, like you know, a shadow on the face that enhances like a pimple, or something like I'm just, I'm just saying anything I've taught my head. Actually, I have not had that happen yet, but no, but it's very possible, it's very possible.
Speaker 1:So you know I don't do it every time, but when I have done it we're talking about marketing. When I have done it, I have had couples that I've booked that originated from that. Where they in it wasn't, they didn't book me because I did a same day edit.
Speaker 2:No booked me because they saw your work with some me that same day.
Speaker 1:Exactly. They saw me how I ran the day, they saw me provide the photos on the day of and that was just part of it and just the overall experience and happiness of the bride and groom and probably them telling them like, yeah, it was great, it was fantastic, he did a good job. And then all of a sudden, like seals the deal, it's like, oh wow, this is worth reaching out. Yeah, gets you that inquiry, gets you that phone call. So there's multiple ways and that's just one, one unique way.
Speaker 1:Just saw a post this morning that was what are you doing. It was for photographers and was what are you doing to make your client experience unique?
Speaker 1:Because there's endless ways to do it and is really good at this and we've talked about this in a previous podcast, I think, maybe last year. Some of the things that you do for your couple post Post experience, which is great because, from a business standpoint, you know you've done your job already, you've collected the payment, you you know there's nothing more you have to give. No still providing value to her clients post session, which is even more valuable.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what Chris is talking about when he's saying post Session, post wedding is usually I'll try to provide a personalized gift. I Am super into crafty, crafty stuff, so I really like to Try to do something with their photos that is unique to them. It is something that they won't. It's a gift that they won't receive from anybody, but someone like their wedding photographer. So I've had a. I've had some successes and some not so good. I it's always a trial and error, but I think it's. It's not even about the Gift itself and more about the effort, if that makes sense. It's more about, like, the effort that I'm willing to go Because I, my clients, I mean to me it feels like they're extended family, like when they have kids. I'm like, oh my god, you know, like I, just I, I want to continue that relationship further than what their contract states. So I always want to leave them with a positive, positive experience, not only for their session and For their wedding, but then also afterwards too. It's, you know, the ones that are, you know, really understanding of my pricing and respectful of the fact that I'm a human. And you know I try to just kind of give back where I can, if that makes sense and if that means a personalized gift after the wedding, I I Kind of I feel like that's almost necessary for me, especially because my clients are so good about Booking early, understanding that I'm a human.
Speaker 2:I think in the very beginning of my career I really struggled Well, no, I actually I struggled way less with my mental health. I think I was just in my early 20s and I was just like, alright, let's do it. And now I think I've. I've taken an approach where I'm trying really hard to battle burnout and I know that that's like you know, that's like a, it's like a topic that everybody's kind of talking about right now. But I'm taking less and I'm charging more and I appreciate the clients that understand that. Like it's funny because in in marketing in school I remember learning about starting a business and basically what you could do with your price, product place and promotion and you know the four Ps of marketing and it is a slippery slope to start the way that we did in the way of Well, I'm not charging much at all right now but my prices absolutely will Increase when I have more clientele and all of that, and I have struggled a lot with trying so hard to keep my pricing when it was for the beginning clients and that's so hard because you're filling up your schedule with Projects that are not making you the income that you need to be able to live a healthy, sustainable work life but trying to honor the fact that, okay, you guys were with me from the very beginning.
Speaker 2:I appreciate you so much. So what I started to do for that is basically I started to try to do one mini day a year where my, my OG, my original clients get first dibs on those mini session dates. Yeah, and those mini session times and what I do for that which is this is a little bit of my marketing process, I guess, so I can go into it is I try to prep my clients with you know when I am Releasing those mini dates and I have like an OG client list of emails and then I have my regular subscribers. So before anybody gets the email for my minis, it's always my original. Those first two years where I was charging almost nothing, they get an opportunity to book those first because I do realize that they have helped me build my business. I've been using their photos for marketing.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't be where I am without them taking a chance on some 19 year old girl, you know. So I try really hard to make it as fair as humanly possible, where the sessions that I'm offering for the least amount of money, those can be booked by my OG clients. That Didn't you know. They took a chance on somebody who honestly at that point, like I, was just trying to learn and I was just trying to get as much experience as possible. But the other thing that I do with my marketing tactic is, you know, I in In the realm of burnout, I feel like what burns me out the most it's not the shooting, it's not the editing, it is the constant influx of emails and this is one of the reason why I never actually I I've all. I almost got swindled into the knot and wedding wire and those types of things Because I wanted to make sure that I hadn't. You know, a constant flow of inquiries coming in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and now that I'm charging a little bit more, what I, what I started doing is I kind of started doing like a booking method, like tattoo artists would do, where I opened my books for maybe one week and I book a set amount of projects that I Feel comfortable with booking for a certain amount of you know, a certain time period and then when I feel like, okay, I've checked in with all of those people, I have taken care of those inquiries, maybe in another month I can open my books again. I have been really lucky. As far like I'm not saying that this method would work for everybody, I think I've Built up a clientele base over the last ten years where I do get so lucky that when I open my books my clients are excited to book and they don't care how far in advance. So this might not work for everybody, but basically what I've been doing is opening up my books for one week for the next six months and I'm able to take in as many inquiries as I can for those six months, and then I'm actually able to plan out my year a little bit better too.
Speaker 2:Where Usually I would have somebody reaching out and going hi, I need somebody next Sunday and it's like I don't even have the mental capacity and bandwidth to fit your project's details into my week. You know what I'm saying. Like my body might be physically present and okay to be shooting your event on Sunday, but the mental toll that it takes to be able to prepare and all of that amongst what I've already booked, I physically don't have it in me. So if I'm able to have a week where I go, okay, actually I do have two days where, if I got an inquiry last minute and I could fit them in, I have the mental bandwidth because I've known what I'm booked, what I have booked for that week.
Speaker 2:I've already checked in with those people so far in advance that adding one more thing to my week actually wouldn't be the biggest deal for me and it wouldn't run me down. But again it's like it's one of those things where it's like, yeah, but you do, you, you know like it might work for me but it might not work for somebody else who might not have 10 years of clients coming back to book them every year.
Speaker 1:So I love this. So there's there's two actual things that Brooke is doing. One is they're both, one is a tactic and one is a benefit. So, because they're all tactics, we all have different tactics and everyone is not going to work the same for everybody and it has to completely. It depends on your situation and what your business is and how your clients interact with you or how they, what they're purchasing habits are. So for, in this realm, this is a scarcity, this is the law of scarcity.
Speaker 1:So this is the same concept that Brooke is doing is that when you get an email that says this is the last sale, this is the last day of the sale. This is how we encourage individuals that want to purchase a product or service to look at it, because we're all busy and take a decision. Take a decision, take a look and make a decision if they if it's worth it to buy it. But the benefit in this realm which I love because I have never heard it spin this way is for for Brooke and how she schedules her life and how she manages a really good balance of that works for her in the sense of work life balance I guess that's the word here that we use is just very tricky word. Always it works. It works for her.
Speaker 1:So she gets the scarcity tactic in, where people will all book and that's organized into her into how she planned this and how she can respond, and then she closes the books and she doesn't have to worry about last minute answering where she's at a party somewhere and you're like crap, I got an inquiry. I like really should answer that because the not and the rest of the world tells me if I don't answer in two hours, then my chances of getting them are less. So there are ways around that. You can do automation and such, or you hire an assistant or a virtual assistant and so forth, but in this realm Brooke doesn't have to spend money on that, so that's more important and she's able to still secure the clients that she needs. And it's as easy as that. That is a great way to market and it works Sounds like it works for you.
Speaker 2:So I mean, this is the first year that I'm doing the like. I basically have an automatic email that goes to everybody else after my books are closed and it's like Nope, sorry, you know, sign up for this email list for notifications on when I'm opening it back up. But I again, it doesn't. It won't work for everybody. It works for me because I have basically accrued clients over the last 10 years, that are excited to get on my books and they know what they're getting.
Speaker 2:When, you know, I've had my October schedule booked out since January of the beginning of this year and so now when I'm getting inquiries for October, I'm like I'm really sorry. Like I've had, you know, I have three sessions a week and then I actually am able to even plan out the time so accordingly that I can almost offer a little bit more leniency in my session dates, because I know I have X amount of dates booked for this month and as long as I reschedule them within that month, I'm still not running myself dry.
Speaker 2:Yeah you know what I'm saying, Like oh yeah, and there are emergency situations where obviously, you know things have to be moved up or things have to move back. But it also gives me the opportunity to give my clients a better experience. I just got an email this morning that said you know, we want to switch our date because I started a new job and I'm you know whatever, and now I'm able to look at that month of October and go, okay, well, I have this date open, this day open and this date open, and they were supposed to be reschedules, but I can actually switch yours to be a reschedule date, you know.
Speaker 2:So I'm able to give a little bit more leniency to the clients. They're paying for the service where they should be able to me and again, this doesn't work for everybody, but they should be able to work with me on what works best for them. Like they're booking me so far in advance because it works best for me that I can also give back in that sense of like well, we did book so far in advance and we didn't know that that date wasn't exactly going to work out. And this is only only for family sessions. Weddings Again, we've said this before when I when I talk about leniency, there really is no leniency in the wedding world.
Speaker 2:When you book a wedding, it's cut dry hard. That is the day. So I just want to kind of like put that little grain of salt in there. But yeah, it does it. And it's nice too, because it gives me the opportunity to provide a better experience for my clients, to have them have something in my books where they know they already have their family photos scheduled. They're not. I don't know if you see this a lot, but like around Christmas time or right before the holidays, a lot of people scramble and they're like oh my God, family photos when people book me so far in advance. They don't have that worry in their mind of are we going to get our photos back in time for Christmas or something like that. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And again, I always try to fit in at least one mini session date. But if I don't, and you booked your full session with me, you have your Christmas cards planned and advanced and I feel like that's just so much better for my mental health, maybe for my client's mental health, where they're not waiting for me to open up my books again to get on them. But yeah, that email list too, the, the. I can't say enough good things about having a separate email list for the clients. If you started at a lower price point, having a separate email list with those first two, three years of clients where you weren't really charging a lot and you know you want to keep seeing those clients back because they are your extended family. But maybe you know you feel bad, at one point you were charging them $175 and now your sessions start at $700. It's a super large hike as far as the cost, but our skill is also evolving too, so you need to make sure that you're not like minimizing the skill and the experience, because that is really what people are paying for. So, going back to the very beginning of our conversation, if you're looking to have photos taken inexpensively, this isn't even to you know, we're not warding you away from people who are just starting, because we've provided experiences for people that have it kept our clients coming back. But you need to, if you're the business owner, set those expectations that you know someday my prices will go up and this is just because I'm beginning but then also expect, set the expectations of the actual experience.
Speaker 2:If you're shooting a wedding, it looks something like I've never done this before and I need you to understand my big I mean I say this to all of my clients still, and I'm you know I'm charging much more than I started with is, at the end of the day, I am a human that is relying on technology in every aspect of your day.
Speaker 2:And if you can't understand that I am simply a human that is doing what I can with the experience that I have to capture your day in the best way that I can, then you're not for me and I'm not for you. If you want a robot, that's not who I am Like. I have a mental capacity that I hit the limit, I have a certain amount of skill sets, but when it comes down to it, I'm a human being. Things happen and we are all relying on technology in every aspect for your day, whether it's the DJ, whether it's me just driving to your wedding and hoping that my car is going to make it there okay and I'm not going to get into a car accident.
Speaker 2:There are so many things and so many factors that come with that and setting the expectation, especially as a new photographer, is really, really important, yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're. The technological response is good that I'm just a person depending upon my technology.
Speaker 2:And technology fails at some point.
Speaker 1:It does. It does so that is why we have backups. We do have backups, but it doesn't mean that at that moment, the thing that you were using maybe had a quirk or something. We have backups within backups. We have cameras with two card slots and all sorts of things, but at some point things do break.
Speaker 2:So things break, things miss focus, things miss fire.
Speaker 1:More often than not, it's probably going to happen when we're using the gear which is at a wedding.
Speaker 2:So right, that's the for hours on end, for hours on end.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you're.
Speaker 1:I love that and I think I love your strategy and I love how works for you.
Speaker 1:It's not just a strategy, it's an actual like, it's a life strategy that that's working between your business and your personal life and it but it is good to reiterate that that probably works well when you have an email following, or you may not even just an email following. What you have, brooke, is a trusted client base that knows the work that you've done, because you've already done work for them, so that that works. So you have to build up to, to use that strategy. But that could be a goal, you know, to build an email list and to provide experience that someone who isn't in the younger years of a business can work towards that and can offer that, because that's really nice, that's I, believe me. It's not I don't, I don't want to. I can think of a better word than hustle. And the goal is not to do that forever, not even close. The goal is to get your feet off the ground and it's going to take hard work to get there, potentially.
Speaker 1:But depending on what you want, how quick you want it and in a bunch of other variables.
Speaker 2:But to have a lifestyle like that within your business and still make the amount of money that you need to make to have whatever lifestyle you want, you know that's, that's a dream, that's great, so well like, for example, this is the first year that I've ever even thought about throwing a Halloween party, because for the most part beforehand, I would be like Well, I don't really know how many clients I'm going to have in October, I don't know how many things I'm going to be juggling, because I would wait until inquiries came in, and then in the end of just in the end of September, people are reaching out for Christmas cards in October and it's like I didn't even have the mental bandwidth to be able to go.
Speaker 2:Okay, I want to do something this year for us and for ourselves. And you know, last year, throwing our wedding around the same time, it was like no, this is really nice and actually we should, we should be doing this more often than just having a wedding, you know we should be making time to be spending with our people instead of capturing other people's best events.
Speaker 2:So I mean, Jerry's still out on this booking system. This is only something that I've been doing for this year, but so far it's it's all about.
Speaker 1:It's helping my mental health.
Speaker 2:Like that's wonderful Vastly.
Speaker 1:That's wonderful, yeah, I, I. Whatever works for an individual business and for you and how you, like I said, integrates into your life. So that's that's wonderful, that's, that's a dream.
Speaker 2:So how much do you find yourself spending on marketing each year? Because I, I literally it's just like I'll do like a maybe a targeted ad on Instagram If I have something that's like super cool and I want the world to see it, but it's not even really because I'm trying to get clients. It's like, oh my God, I'm so pumped about this thing I did and I just want people to see, so I'll literally pay like five bucks to have it run to other accounts for a few days, but it's not. I don't do it to like get more clients.
Speaker 1:It's more just like look at this thing. I, so it's good to keep in mind there should be context to this question. So for me, I you know I'm looking to book about. In the past two years I've done between 30 and 40 weddings, so of my own, and to have those numbers with a growing business, marketing and paid marketing is a way to do that and it has helped, has helped.
Speaker 1:You know it takes a while to understand how to market on the paid advertisements, but it does. It does get me clients, pending what it is. So from a money standpoint total, I mean in actual marketing I've probably spent somewhere between five and eight grand a year in in that, which is actually relatively low for.
Speaker 2:Well, for what you're getting, yeah, for the clients that you're getting in, like the price of the weddings that you're trying to book, then yeah, totally makes sense.
Speaker 1:I've been actually really happy with it. So it's, uh, when you, you look at a certain, it should be about and I say this very carefully, and I've said that word a lot today or that phrase, I say this carefully Um well, I think anything you say on here has to just like, like you have to take a grain of salt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's good advice on how much money you should spend on a growing business in your paid marketing and marketing in general. That's every avenue. That's social media, website, uh, you know, newspaper ads, whatever you want to call all the different realms of advertising should be about. I think 10% should be close to 10% of your of your gross revenue. Um, to, if you are continuing on a growing business path and that's a again, that is still generalized, but the specific word being growing If you are looking to increase sales in your business, 10% is a good number, uh, and I need marketing individuals to come, come at me and after they hear this, uh, and tell me if that number is correct. But I believe it's. It's around there. It shouldn't be.
Speaker 2:This marketing individual can't come at you because I don't even.
Speaker 1:I'm like yeah you are the marketing individual you got to tell me.
Speaker 2:I always well, here's the thing is like. I always say like I don't know, like a little off topic, but I always like I try to tell people who are thinking about bettering their education and going to school Well, to me I feel like you don't need to go to college to.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a whole separate topic we can have here.
Speaker 2:So yeah, like I just you know, I was in college of almost 10 years ago and I don't. It's funny, it helped me open up my business and start the business and all of that. But you need to find what works for you. You can go to the marketing classes, you can go to the management classes, you can get all of that. You know, like I remember the four P's of all of that. But what works for you is, I mean, I guess, like there is no like this is so bad, there is no like marketing. Like you know, if you do this, you will get this. It all is dependent on the level of your work.
Speaker 2:It's not like if you take a certain marketing class, you're going to be able to okay, well, if I spend 10% of my income, then I'll have the growth of this. It doesn't work like that. It's a generalization of numbers, I guess.
Speaker 1:I've seen this going around recently in the Connecticut market in the social media space. Some professionals that I follow have been talking about this or ranting about it. Talking about, but, as the in general, the economy in the in an overall whole has been dampened since 2022. And you're starting to see a real solid proliferation of really skeezy tactics, which is exactly what you just described, which is getting us getting served an ad that says if you do this, you're going to make whatever.
Speaker 1:A million dollars, $100,000 and there is not a single business out there that will give you direct results like that, not direct as you're being advertised, because if that was the case, then all of the millionaires in the world would have already taken advantage of that. And the people that have. You know it doesn't work like that. Nothing does Nothing works that directly.
Speaker 2:It's a combination of pieces. Like the people who come to Lens and Light. You can provide all of that information. You can have people you know paying to come to your, but if they don't actually take that information home and put that to use in a way that works for them, then yeah, no, you're just wasting your money.
Speaker 1:I don't advertise like, hey, if you come to Lens and Light, you will be, you know, a fucking great photographer that will, instantly, when you walk out these doors, get you know clients knocking in your door. That's not, it's a very much so.
Speaker 2:It's not the way you use that experience.
Speaker 1:We're giving in, we're going to help you, we're going to push information and education on you and really get you inspired to take control of your life, with actual tactics and things you can use. But if you don't do the work, it doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Even bigger than that is online education. God, I am not in the past two years, but initially, when I first started my business, I was a junkie for online education. I loved it, and because you get so sucked into it, well, if I do this, then, like you know, I'm going to be that much better and you may be better at that thing, but it still doesn't get you clients. It's not. It's yeah, so we're spiraling to a different counter.
Speaker 2:We ran every time. It's okay.
Speaker 1:We always ran yeah. So at the end of the day, strategy, hard work, time, things that you already know, that Brooke and I don't have to tell or talk about, is how you grow your business and get things accomplished. And trial and error and failure, those are all it is what it is.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So what was the actual question that you had? I don't even remember now. I wish I could, like press a rewind button right here and listen to what you asked.
Speaker 2:I think I was asking how much you spent.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah. So ultimately I was just saying that I gave a number like five to $8,000 is where. I was spending which was less than that 10% number, which is great, I felt really good about that, but it took time to get to that point.
Speaker 1:So in the first year, let's say, I spent $8,000 of marketing. That first year I still wasn't risk. I was probably lower, meaning my gross revenue was probably in comparison like 20%. Like you know, as I made the transition from part time to full time and then even then full time into continued growing business, it takes so much time to get it going. It does. You have to love it, you have to love what you're doing, otherwise you won't make it.
Speaker 1:So, but I loved it. I loved the photography industry and hospitality. I do love it, so I love seeing the clients get excited.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think the biggest thing with marketing too, is like people can tell if you don't love it.
Speaker 1:This is going to be three, three episode at this point.
Speaker 2:Oh, really oh well, we could chop it in half right after this. But no people. If you don't love what you're doing, it will become so abundantly clear to your clients that, like, your best version of marketing is being the best version of you while you're doing your craft. Again, it's so funny because you use the word scarcity for my booking method and I don't really even look at it like that, like I totally understand what you're saying, but I it's almost like I'm doing this not to provide this, like oh my God got a book now. I'm literally just doing it for my mental health, because I know that if I book X amount of projects, I'm not giving myself to my clients enough to be able to have them pay the prices that they're paying.
Speaker 2:So being able to take less charge more I'm actually. I feel as though I can take care of myself, and if I can do that, I can provide a better experience to the clients that are booking me. So it's almost like if you are your best self when you are marketing and when you are doing your craft, that's what's going to pull people in to go. Oh, I wanna see more of what that person does.
Speaker 1:Yep, it's a good idea too to I'm just thinking about this to do a poll on all of your previous clients and I know that's advice always to get a feel for like what they liked about you, so you can get a better understanding of what. Was it that why they booked, why? You know, so yeah, that's-.
Speaker 2:And then in the beginning it might be price. In the beginning it might be price and then they might fall in love with your work and understand like, oh yeah, well, I did pay $175 for that at the very beginning. But now that I've seen the amount of growth that that person has had or the amount of clients that they have to take on, I feel like most of my clients who booked me in the beginning, they are not trying to get a deal out of me. They understand that in the very beginning that was a deal because of the circumstances that I was in and that they found me in. And now that they see that I'm basically offering a better service, having all of the skill and experience that I have had since the 10 years ago, that I started shooting.
Speaker 2:You find your people Right and so they don't really mind. And I feel like it is scary when you're starting to price things so low and that like hustle mentality of like all right, and then I have this shoot and then I have to run to this one just to make your ends meet. But if you do it in a way where you're slowly increasing your prices and slowly making the experience better for those clients, they won't really bad an eye or go. But you used to charge $175 because that initial price point was so much lower than you should have been charging. You know you can never, you should never look at well, I'm only charging $175 for this, so I'm only going to give this much of myself. In every single thing that you do, you need to give 100% of yourself to get people to come back, otherwise they will go. Yeah, but you used to charge $175 for the same thing. You know, yep, which is fair, but still like if you are providing, oh it is fair.
Speaker 1:It's just whether or not they and if they don't want to book you because of that price, that's fine they just don't, that's completely okay, but you have to continue to move forward, they can find another new photographer. Exactly, that's the part that's like no hard feelings. This is a business, this you know, so it has to work for you too.
Speaker 2:And I always it's so funny like even with my wedding couples, like I'll get off the phone or I'll, right before I get off the phone with any of my wedding couples. This is so bad, cause I was I was a business major, like I should have. What I do with them, though, is I go. I don't ever want you to feel pressured to work with me, and I don't want you to feel like this is something that you have to make the decision right now. In fact, I need a little time to think about this too, so I would love if you could do me a favor and go talk to three other photographers to make sure that I'm the one you want.
Speaker 2:Most photographers are like book now, like book me at the end of the call. We're good To me. I'm like no, this is a big decision and it's a lot of money, and I understand that. So if you talk to somebody tomorrow who you feel like you jive better with, just let me know. No big deal, and I again, I'm at a place where I've accrued so many clients where I don't. I know that there is so much work to go around that I don't mind offering. Yeah, I'll send you a few of my photographer friends pages, even Like. I want them to win too. Community over competition. If you think, for some reason, that Christopher Stiles is the better photographer for you, then I genuinely want you to book him, because if there's something about me that you're like, but we love her work, or you know.
Speaker 2:If you're trying to convince yourself to book me, please don't do it.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:It's a good.
Speaker 1:Look at that as a. In a more technical term, that is a. What you are doing and what you're saying is you're positioning yourself as a confident photographer. That's one way to look at it, where you're like, and if you are not happy with it, then you know that's completely great, that's okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is my work, this is what I offer, and if this isn't something that you're looking for, I would rather us figure that out right now.
Speaker 1:Yep, you know, so you'll have a happier client in the end, when they come back to you too.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And there's a trust there that they trust you.
Speaker 2:So that's yeah and most of the time, they'll email me and be like it's a resounding yes, like we talked to three other photographers and, like we love you.
Speaker 2:And sometimes, like I've had people, I had one person be like we love your work, we love everything about it, blah, blah, blah. And then I sent them like three other photographers to go talk to. And then the email that came back which, like this is just kind of rude, so, like, don't do this to a photographer, but it was like it was like, upon looking at further galleries, we actually don't really like your editing.
Speaker 1:And it's like-. Well-, I was like okay, like I'm glad but you know what? That's okay? Because if you delivered galleries that looked like what you provided, then maybe they wouldn't be happy with it, so and that's-. Exactly Sales sometimes isn't worth it, so-.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, and I wouldn't Sales is finite. And if you want and I wouldn't want somebody coming back to me going I want re-edits on every single wedding photo, because that we don't want it to be that I'm literally sending you what. I have delivered to somebody else. If you don't see the value in that, that's totally fine.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Somebody else will.
Speaker 1:That's it. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's all I got.
Speaker 1:That's all I got. There's. I think we can go. So this was a scratching the surface of marketing. Honestly, I think we could go into a more in-depth conversation and pick something a little bit more specific than just talking about baseline marketing, which I would love to revisit at some point, maybe in the winter.
Speaker 2:So we'll come back to that because Maybe in the winter, maybe with a guest who does something totally different.
Speaker 1:That would be a good idea. Let's make sure we write that down.
Speaker 2:So yeah, like the idea, Because you have such a different way of booking than I do, and I know that there are so many ways of doing it. Oh yeah, it would be interesting, I didn't even talk about all the ways that I book.
Speaker 1:There's so many different other ways, so it's like I said we could talk about this for a long time, so I said this needs to be like a five-part episode. So marketing is big.
Speaker 2:I know we're trying to keep it like-.
Speaker 1:Marketing's a big topic. So that's it. But yeah, that's all I got. Next time we talk, I do have a cool story to share. You know what I was gonna share? I've got two good ones, I've got my ghost story, but we're gonna save that for the month of October, spooky season.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I'm gonna start doing all of these DIYs. Cause we decided we're throwing a Halloween party and so we're trying to keep the cost as low as possible, but like I have all of these ideas that I'm gonna be like-.
Speaker 1:I have zero doubts that it's gonna look incredible.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God.
Speaker 1:Because you are the queen of DIY.
Speaker 2:As far as it's so pumped.
Speaker 1:Yep, yeah, that's awesome and it's coming up. I'm not rushing it. I do enjoy summer. I know you're making that face. I know you love spooky season. And you love October, I do. I love autumn, I do, love fall, I love all those things. But I don't ever like to rush summer, because what comes after that is cold.
Speaker 2:I love snow.
Speaker 1:I love snow? I do. I love snow and cold and I'm good with the change, but I never want to rush out of the season because I do enjoy things for that season, so-.
Speaker 2:I just like to hibernate, so.
Speaker 1:I understand that January actually I can't hibernate this year cause we got lens and light in February there is zero hibernation going on.
Speaker 2:You did that to yourself, dude. I did it to myself. I don't feel bad about that.
Speaker 1:Don't feel bad, just support me. That's all I ask. Just give me a thumbs up. I got you Fantastic.
Speaker 2:All right, bye, thank you later. V building with the penguins.