Have you ever wondered how spirituality, love, and aging beautifully could intertwine and play out in a couple's life? We're thrilled to invite you on a soulful journey with Caryl & Jay Casbon, authors of "Side by Side: A Sacred Art of Couples Aging with Wisdom and Love".
This dynamic duo takes us through their spiritual evolution as a pair, from the moment they sensed that soulful spark in 1995, to their transcendent daily practices that strengthen their bond.
Embark on a deep exploration of aging, relationships, and soul stories as we meander with the Casbon's through their audacious five-year project. They demystify their approach to interviewing couples, the divergence between soul and ego stories, and how the Centre of Courage and Renewal fits into their work.
Listen closely as they unveil the metamorphic power of committed relationships and the wisdom they unearthed from their journey. From learning to drive together in a Winnebago to sharing physical ailments, their story is a touching testament to the transformative power of long-term relationships.
Lastly, Caryl & Jay Casbon bring to light an engaging perspective to end-of-life conversations, the spiritual component of life and death, and how couples can influence their children through conflict resolution modelling.
Their experience gives us a riveting insight into the possibility for counter-cultural fun and meaningful discussions through the simple act of posing questions. Their story is not just a tale of aging gracefully together, but a call to action for couples to view their relationships as a spiritual journey.
Come join us as we unearth the power of relationships as a catalyst for internal growth and exploration.
We hope you found the episode to be enlightening and insightful. Our goal is to create content that not only entertains but also helps you grow spiritually and connect with your inner self.
If you enjoyed listening to this episode, we would greatly appreciate it if you could take a moment to like, subscribe, and write a review. Your feedback is incredibly valuable to us and helps us to improve the quality of our content and reach a wider audience.
We believe that by sharing knowledge and insights about spirituality, we can help to inspire positive change and personal growth. So, if you find our podcast to be meaningful and informative, we encourage you to share it with your friends and family.
Have you ever wondered how spirituality, love, and aging beautifully could intertwine and play out in a couple's life? We're thrilled to invite you on a soulful journey with Caryl & Jay Casbon, authors of "Side by Side: A Sacred Art of Couples Aging with Wisdom and Love".
This dynamic duo takes us through their spiritual evolution as a pair, from the moment they sensed that soulful spark in 1995, to their transcendent daily practices that strengthen their bond.
Embark on a deep exploration of aging, relationships, and soul stories as we meander with the Casbon's through their audacious five-year project. They demystify their approach to interviewing couples, the divergence between soul and ego stories, and how the Centre of Courage and Renewal fits into their work.
Listen closely as they unveil the metamorphic power of committed relationships and the wisdom they unearthed from their journey. From learning to drive together in a Winnebago to sharing physical ailments, their story is a touching testament to the transformative power of long-term relationships.
Lastly, Caryl & Jay Casbon bring to light an engaging perspective to end-of-life conversations, the spiritual component of life and death, and how couples can influence their children through conflict resolution modelling.
Their experience gives us a riveting insight into the possibility for counter-cultural fun and meaningful discussions through the simple act of posing questions. Their story is not just a tale of aging gracefully together, but a call to action for couples to view their relationships as a spiritual journey.
Come join us as we unearth the power of relationships as a catalyst for internal growth and exploration.
We hope you found the episode to be enlightening and insightful. Our goal is to create content that not only entertains but also helps you grow spiritually and connect with your inner self.
If you enjoyed listening to this episode, we would greatly appreciate it if you could take a moment to like, subscribe, and write a review. Your feedback is incredibly valuable to us and helps us to improve the quality of our content and reach a wider audience.
We believe that by sharing knowledge and insights about spirituality, we can help to inspire positive change and personal growth. So, if you find our podcast to be meaningful and informative, we encourage you to share it with your friends and family.
Hello everyone, welcome to our spiritual spotlight series. Today I am joined by Carol and Jay Caspon. They are both co-authors of a new book called Side by Side A Sacred Art of Couples Aging with Wisdom and Love, which I think is very important. Thank you, guys, so much for coming on the spiritual spotlight series. I'm so happy you're here.
Speaker 2:
Glad to be here.
Speaker 3:
Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1:
So the things that we talked about right before we got on and I think this is a really wonderful discussion is kind of couples and spirituality, and how do you blend your spirituality into being a couple? So take me back because you guys have been. You met in 1995, which I think is amazing. So tell me about the blending of your relationship and your spiritual path.
Speaker 2:
Why don't you take the lead on that, and I'll jump in.
Speaker 3:
Well, it's a big topic.
Speaker 1:
It's a big topic. We got all day. Don't you worry All right.
Speaker 3:
well, just a plenty of time. So many layers to it, but one of the things well, it's in our title that relationships is sacred art and relationships are well. First off, our souls had a deep recognition when we met. It was like we've known each other for many, many lifetimes and started crying.
Speaker 1:
I love that it's like you knew that your souls were meant to be together.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely.
Speaker 3:
There was no way we weren't gonna be together and we had to make some huge changes to make that happen. That's not really the story, but one was just that soul recognition that we were gonna live our lives together going forward was very deep. And there we've had astrologers tell us that both of us share one common trait, which is we would go anywhere to seek the Oracle, and so we share a common longing and need and passion for all things spiritual and nature, and that is include travel, it includes study, it includes worship and includes spiritual practices. And so in our relationship to bring it to date right now we meditate together. We have practices at the end of the day where we are in a co-housing situation with another dear friend, georgia Noble. Every evening before dinner we get together, we do a check-in, we read a spiritual book aloud and discuss it and we meditate before dinner and we all go to church together and we practice Shabbat. Even though none of us are Jewish technically, we love that ceremony and Jay and I traveled to Israel and we interviewed two rabbis for our book who really inspired us. They had us over for Shabbat meal and they are in the practice of bringing people in to learn these traditions. So anyway, those are some of the things.
Speaker 3:
And then I think, on an even deeper level, I would say that when we have problems we realize that they are alive with possibilities for learning, and that couples. One of our models is Terry Reel and he says you marry your unfinished business. So we also use our relationship to do the deep inner work on our psychological level that gets in the way of our spirituality, gets in our way of being fully human. So relationships bring that out in you, ironically, you know, so in love and so happy and all that. But they also take you to really dark, hard places, and so then we use that as a chance to look at those things. We haven't always done that. I don't want to hold us up with some ideal. We've had lots of issues and I think we say in our book we ended up going into therapy as a result of this study, so, but those are our ideals.
Speaker 2:
Well, I think that's what I would add to that. Those are our ideals, but it's also our choices, and I think one of the human superpowers that we have is the power of choice, and spiritual teachers of all traditions teach this, and so where the wounding is is exactly where the healing is, and so, when Carol was quoting, Terry Reel who's such a wonderful teacher for us and says you know, you marry your unfinished business.
Speaker 2:
Where I go with that spiritually is the. The sacred elements that need to be looked at and embraced are in the wounding, and so we both come from families that are very similar and we have similar wounds with our biological families, and it's been just a real adventure to work that out so we can be more real with each other. And another thing that we do, just to keep it honest, we do days of silence. We find that this is a talking culture. This is a culture that is full of input any kind of input that's visual audio, it's just there and so sometimes just pulling back and taking some deep breaths and go silent. When we come out of silence, sometimes it's half a day, frequently it's all day. We're getting ready to do one this coming weekend. What we find is that we have a lot to say, but we also find that our listening is more acute. Our listening, we listen more with our heart. And I think what's going on with couples and everybody right now is that the world's changing very rapidly and we're moving from a three-dimensional space to multi-dimensional space and where paradox is going to become more the norm and we're not so moving into that space as a couple. I think is not only challenging but it's also exciting. And so we look at love as a multi-dimensional kind of experience. So when I say that, it's not love in the ideal so much, it's love in the small things too, being kind. When I look at Carol, I try to remember to look at her with soft eyes, to listen to her more deeply and to respond to the feeling of it.
Speaker 2:
And I'm really interested in men's studies. I'm in a men's group. I tell men if you really want to be a force multiplier now this is third-dimensional language If you really want to be a force multiplier, this is so much fun. Force multiplier in a relationship, you know, you got to start listening with your heart, you got to start seeing through your heart. Men get this. Men know all about force multiplication. I mean, this is part of our training.
Speaker 2:
And men are the biggest resistors to picking up a book like this. Who buys our book are women, and maybe 10%, or we don't have the exact data, but I can tell you very few men pick up our book but women do, and then women share it with their men and then it gets interesting and we do retreats and workshops and the men are always dragged there by the women, but once they get with us, then things begin to change, and so that's why we're both hopeful. You know, I was listening to the Dalai Lama the other day. They did a film celebrating the birthday of Desmond Tutu and Dalai Lama said he was a prisoner of hope. And I just love that language and that's how I feel about relationships. They're so, so tough and demanding and they can be glorious and you need hope to do with it, to deal with it completely. But anyway, I'm rambling, no.
Speaker 1:
I know all of your points were amazing. Honestly, they were very insightful and it was interesting. As Carol was speaking, she said that you guys both seek out the Oracle and I thought that was very interesting because before we got on I was reading Oracle cards and the card that I drew was the Oracle.
Speaker 2:
And.
Speaker 1:
I was like this is meant to be.
Speaker 2:
Well, it is.
Speaker 1:
There you go. I love that. I mean, that's like what she says, like oh and I, and I really respect it. And I definitely want to dig in more because I want to talk more about your book, about you guys have amazing like spiritual hygiene practices that you do on a daily basis which anyone, regardless of you're in a couple or not, really benefit from implementing. That I think a day of silence is amazing and do meditation before dinner, and I love, I love all the things that you're doing. So with your book, the side by side, the sacred art of couples aging with wisdom and love. What made you spark the idea to embark on this ambitious five year project and how did you decide on the couples that you interviewed?
Speaker 3:
Well, um, when we were both kind of retiring. Well, I'm hesitating because we led a group in our local community for elders on aging.
Speaker 3:
It was on a program that I had been working for, a program called the Soul of Aging, and there was a lot of resistance, especially from the men. We went home pretty discouraged and kind of disbanded the group. But Jay had a dream and in that dream he was inspired and directed to interview couples about the intersection of aging and relationships and spirituality. And he woke up and told it to me and I said well, perfect, let's do it. And we bought a Winnebago and went on the road and traveled 10,000 miles and we took a couple of years to really interview everyone. We selected the couples based on a really simple formula we wanted people who could talk, tell their soul stories, not their ego stories of their relationships.
Speaker 3:
We were willing to talk vulnerably and honestly about the soul of their relationships, which is both dark and light, and we have both also worked with Parker Palmer I don't know if you know him. He's a real spiritual leader on our age in a community called the Center of Courage and Renewal, and that we all have been leading groups that are designed to give people safe conditions to share from their depths.
Speaker 2:
So it would be universities, philanthropic organizations, the health community.
Speaker 3:
So most of the couples not all came from that community and like one couple didn't. They were enneagram teachers and we had actually been in one of their classes. The rabbis weren't part of that community. There's Barbara and Bobby Bellamy who are in South Carolina. She's the first Black mayor of South Carolina, so we had people referring folks to us, but it kind of came down to who's willing to say yes. We were sad that we had we ended up not having any gay couples and we were really discouraged about that. We had a couple and they backed out at the last minute just because it was too vulnerable and too public. But that's how we, that's why we did it. It was really more of a commission. We felt guided. This is a calling and it was really clear and so we went for it.
Speaker 1:
I love that. And let me ask you this the distinction between soul stories and ego stories is intriguing. Could you maybe elaborate on this concept and explain the significance in the context of aging couples?
Speaker 3:
Well, the ego story is the is your hero story. Okay, it's the story you'd put on your resume If you were a couple applying to work in a work together on a cruise line or something. This is how great we are and we have three perfect children and we, you know, have these fabulous careers.
Speaker 2:
And we sent out those Christmas cards.
Speaker 1:
We are perfect is what I'm hearing.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3:
The soul story is the deeper story. That includes the honest struggles you've had. It includes the losses you've gone through. One of our couples, anne and Tom Butler their whole thing is a soul story. She was a nun and he was a priest. They met when her brother his brother was dying of bladder cancer and he asked Anne to help him through the dying process. And they fell in love and their line actually captures it. They say we were blessed and broken from the very beginning as a couple. That's the soul story.
Speaker 2:
And that's you know. That's the line I use all the time when I talk about myself. You know, and it comes from them, the soul story is a story that connects very quickly and it doesn't come through the mind. So when you're listening to someone sharing at that level, it's not coming through the quantitative, cognitive, quantifying machine we call the mind. It's listening with the whole body.
Speaker 2:
And that's when you know you're in the presence of someone who's speaking from the soul. That's how it works for me, and the more that I think couples get into that frame of space, I call it a beneficial presence space. That's when magic happens. When I say magic, the unexpected, it's like you reading a card and all of a sudden you know here we are, you know, going through the Oracle. That's that's. We don't think that's unusual, that happens all the time. But it but if you're not paying attention to things, you don't see it and you don't feel it. And so paying attention is one of the things we talk about with couples.
Speaker 1:
Now, do you guys coach couples now on how to, kind of, you know, have this sacred relationship with one another, to really speak to each other soul to soul?
Speaker 3:
We are leading retreats right now and we decided our book launch was going to be retreats and rather than going to bookstores and signing books because we feel like it's, this is. This is a book that's meant to be engaged. It's fine to sit and read the stories, that's great, but unless you engage it, there's a reader's guide at the back. And then we also created a process we were actually in one last night called the side by side soup and story clubs, and after the retreats people continue to meet over time. They share bread together, tell a relationship stories around the table and then take a chapter each month and and talk about what they learned from that and talk with each other. So but we aren't therapists. We, we both have, we both have degrees in that, but we did not make that our careers. So we don't see this as therapy, but more of a true we're both.
Speaker 2:
I mean, I was a professor and a dean provost, all those kinds of things at the university and I didn't want to write. We didn't want to write a book that comes from that vibration. Not that there's anything wrong with that vibration. We just wanted more of a story, a heartfelt story, sharing people's lives and then coming up with questions, which we call the software of the book.
Speaker 2:
So Carol is referring to the soup and supper clubs soup and story. For every chapter we have questions that these groups can engage, and so we were doing it last night with the group and it was a fabulous experience. It was very deep and the couples, they all come in and said we don't have these kind of structured conversations anywhere and it wasn't therapy, it was a deep sharing. Deep goes to deep and it's very gratifying and I have a feeling that all these couples, that we're going to be friends forever because when you share at that level, but it's such a support also because marriage is challenging and you need to know that you're not alone and that anyway, it was really heartfelt.
Speaker 1:
No, I think that's beautiful. I mean, when you're as you're speaking, it's bringing me back to my childhood and when I was younger and the relationships that I modeled my own personal relationships on. It's wonderful to have such a loving partnership, to be able to say, oh OK, let's maybe take some tips from them, Like they've weathered the times and they've gone through the ups and the downs but look, they still love each other unconditionally and I just think that's amazing that so many people don't get to even just witness a beautiful partnership and how important it is. So I just find I really respect that. I think that's amazing, especially for younger people. Sorry, my brain is going off in like 18,000 directions.
Speaker 1:
So, I'm just like oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. I have so much in my mind right now, so let me ask you this, so you delve into the subject of aging and relationships from your findings what's the most significant changes couples experience as they grow older together?
Speaker 3:
Well, there's quite a bit about that. You know. There's also eco stories out there right now about aging Ra, ra, ra. This is the best time you're leaving, you know, don't don't like. We've been doing some writing for magazines and almost all of them say, well, don't feed the stereotypes of aging, and so so there's energy to kind of keep it up and yeah, but in truth, you know, there's a lot of change going on, almost as much as an adolescence, only in reverse. And you, we have have one of our.
Speaker 3:
We ended up writing Beatitudes for couples because it's just sort of what came to us. And one of the Beatitudes is blessed is a couple who can do the dance of me and we. You, you're a lot more time together and so it's almost like you have to reestablish your boundaries around differentiation how much time together is a good thing and how much time apart is a good thing, and that's part of aging. And then also you run into physical problems and one of our couples will, jim and Mary Ann Houston. He's actually Jim's quite a bit younger than Mary Ann and she had had a stroke, and he literally said in the interview because he's very service oriented so he'd been out in the community doing all kinds of service projects. And he said you know, I've had to turn some of my service energy back towards home and be in service to Mary Ann because she needs more help now you know, so so there's those physical adjustments.
Speaker 3:
There's a lot of adjustments to go on with aging.
Speaker 2:
Jay, do you want to jump in and Takes a long time to be young, you know, and young at heart. The men that that are my age I just turned 80. And we don't compete with one another. It's so refreshing, you know, nobody's rolling out their ego stories with their resumes and all the other stuff. We just get to what's going on. And so one of the gifts of aging and there are many gifts of aging is around really deep friendships. And not only do we have time to develop those friendships, we have things to share. In those friendships we can support one another, we can listen to one another. In my men's group, as an example, One of our members lost his wife recently and all he could do is come to the group and cry, and the group just held the space for him so he could do that. It was a beautiful experience for all of us. So one of the things that you know, you ask you know how does aging so many words, you know impact marriage? I think it softens us again in good ways, and this is part of the soul development.
Speaker 2:
I think Joe and I drive together. I might be driving, but we're driving together. We learned to do that in Winnebago. We were afraid we were going to run over somebody. This big thing was one of the saddest days of my life. A little aside here is when we had to sell the thing. It was so much fun. It was so much fun, but we learned to drive together. That's just an example.
Speaker 2:
We have an agreement with one another. If there's something wrong with our body, some kind of physical thing, we share it. We're not hyperconductors, but we want our partners to know what's going on and we try to do that in everything, and so in some ways you're forced to do that, but in doing that, this is where intimacy comes, in a way, when we're telling truth to truth, being absolutely real with one another, and then, when we fall down and make a mistake and we hurt each other, we find ways to repair and it can be a really sweet time and we're still learning. It's not that, in fact, we have a friend who has a little business and she's our age and she calls it still learning, and I love that. So it can be a good time.
Speaker 1:
So let me ask you this so why do you claim that committed relationships are spiritual journeys and crucibles for transformation?
Speaker 3:
Certain, you know just a quick story about us that addresses that question. We were pretty career oriented. I mean we were, I would. It's fair to say, both of us were quite driven in our our younger years and you know all the things that go with the first half of life, and we had issues but, to be honest, we didn't really address them. And when, with the slowing down of retirement and aging, that's so illness and illness.
Speaker 3:
Those issues actually come up, roar up to meet you and you can no longer ignore them. And so, and then here you are with the time to address what's going on, and it became like a whole spiritual journey for us to look at what these things were. We got a fabulous couples therapist here in Santa Barbara. We dedicated the book to her theory, jenkins, and we rolled up our sleeves and looked at a lot of things we'd been avoiding.
Speaker 3:
Had we not been together, I don't think those issues would have been triggered. Even I don't even know that we would have done. How would have they appeared? Because, you know, couples project so much onto each other and you, in a way, you serve as mirrors and projection reflectors, if you will, of the things, of the work that you need to do on that inner level. So, in that sense of doing your shadow work and your growth work, psychologically it's there, but then also there's the power of sharing faith and belief and spiritual growth, and we pursue those interests together and it's wonderful to have a partner you can share that with.
Speaker 2:
That's essential. So you know, you can have a pilgrimage and not even leave the house if the conversations are deep and we're confronting some things that we need to talk about. You know, I knew that I was supposed to be with Carol. We were traveling someplace and we were getting the luggage that we were in the plane and we were deplaning and we had some luggage up top and Carol was behind me and I just looked at her and there was a look and I just said, yeah, this is the person I'm supposed to be with.
Speaker 2:
And you know, when you have those kinds of insights and I've never forgotten that and you get into trouble, you know like I'll say something that's very hurtful or I'll slip up some in some manner, and it comes back. I always go back to that point and I'm saying, okay, jay, remember the set point, you went to that place, you knew. Now you still know, okay, so what are you going to do about it? And it's you know. You say, yeah, I'm committed, that's what I'm going to do about it and she's committed to me and we're going to get through whatever it is we need to get through.
Speaker 1:
Let me ask you this question, and the only reason why I'm thinking this is because my partner and I, like I'm very spiritual and he's not. So were you both always spiritual, or is it something that you grew into together?
Speaker 3:
We both came this way. This is hard. For me it was hard wired. We have childhood mystical experiences in common, and so we just kind of have it baked in.
Speaker 1:
I love how you're both so vulnerable with each other and you know you've mentioned, you know, working on the shadow side, working on the dark, darker aspects of yourself. You know to really bring them up into. For me it feels like balance. You know to really integrate the light with the dark and to move forward on the path. And I think, even if you're, maybe if you're with a partner that isn't a spiritual, your book is like a guidebook that I feel would help somebody like myself to be like okay, let's, let's go through these questions together and let's share. I love that.
Speaker 2:
I'm getting a little hang out. You have to speak to your point where one is more spiritual than the other. You know I could get into details. What defines spirituality? What do you mean?
Speaker 2:
If, if spirituality is hiking in the woods and commuting with nature. That counts to me as much as going to the Episcopal Church. You know maybe more. I have known couples. We both have known couples where one is spiritual and the other has questions. Let me put it that way. And um, what generally happens with those couples? The one who's spiritual, they stay who they are and the other persons eventually tunes into them, just like they tune into nature or anything else, and and they get on a wavelength, and that wavelength depends on the couple, but they continue to grow as a couple. That's what I would say about the couples that I've, that I've known.
Speaker 1:
I like that. I like that. I will say Bob and I have been together over 18 years and we're definitely on the same wavelength, so we might not speak the same language at times, but we're definitely on the same wavelength. Spirituality is being by the lake and thank you for saying that. You were correct, sir.
Speaker 3:
Rachel, there more couples like you, then probably like us. Oh yeah, I think 100% agree with you.
Speaker 1:
I don't even have to read your book to know that I Love that. He will say, though, rachel, your energy is not as good as it should be.
Speaker 2:
Right now, and I said don't talk to me about energy.
Speaker 1:
What are you talking about? You know? So he will say that I'm so sorry. I'm having a moment. This is kind of a more sensitive topic and you kind of brought this up with the friend that lost his wife. So end of life discussions can be very sensitive. How can, how have couples that you've interviewed navigated these conversations, and maybe what insights can other couples gain from their experiences?
Speaker 3:
Hmm, that's a great question. We that. One of the probably best question we asked our couples in the interviews was tell us the stories of your parents. Deaths Like that. Yeah and those.
Speaker 2:
I agree.
Speaker 3:
We're absolutely incredible conversations this. You know how children are constantly watching their parents throughout life and beyond as to how they handle those stages of life. So All in all of the interviews, people shared those stories and and talked about their relationship with death. No one said they were afraid of death, but almost everyone agreed that they have some fear. What? Either? Both about losing their partner or Things that can happen when we, as we die. So the illnesses, especially dementia, that that come with aging and and my dog agreed with your point.
Speaker 1:
I don't want to say that.
Speaker 3:
I don't think dogs worry about death.
Speaker 2:
Our couples that we interviewed were intentional about this phase of life. Again, I would second what Carol said. They weren't afraid to die. And there's back to the spiritual element. There's a recognition that somehow we're going to continue on and we know that it's not in the same body, we know it's not in the same personality, but there's an essence that Carries on and we all have different stories on what that means, but there is kind of a basic understanding that this realm isn't the end of anything.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and that and actually it makes that kind of understanding, makes the time we do have together all the more precious, I think.
Speaker 3:
But you know, just personal story, jane. I are in the process. We've been leasing a Toyota and the lease is almost up. So now we're in the process of deciding what car to lease or buy next and we are openly discussing that this is probably the last car we're gonna buy. And then, and can I afford it if you die first, or would this be? You know, we're really. We just include it in our conversations now it's just real. And Well, what happens if I die and you're stuck here? Is this where you want to be? We're, you know it's, it's very much in your consciousness at our ages. I'm 73, in jay's 80. So I Love the fact that you're very intentional with these conversations.
Speaker 1:
I I'm not sure that all couples are as open with those discussions. You know, I feel like sometimes people are afraid of dying and they don't have a plan, and I really respect the fact that you're both very intentional with your conversations and with your planning. For sure, and to the spiritual component, I, you know, with what Jay said, I do believe death is just a doorway and you know, we can definitely connect with a loved one at any time and Maybe it's just the energetic essence of them, but definitely can feel that around us all the time. And and I love that we share that to say, you know, yeah, yeah, we, we will look both once in a while.
Speaker 3:
We'll say Jay says your mom's here, I'm having a moment.
Speaker 1:
My brother passed away about Six years ago and you know, he was younger than me, 10 years younger than me, and I, you know, I'm not sure if I Would be okay with that had I not. Have I not feel him around me and know that he's With us all times? You know, it's just a, it's just a beautiful. It's a beautiful thing, and I and I think, like you guys mentioned the beginning, the times are changing and definitely more and more people are becoming more spiritual. You know, awaken.
Speaker 1:
There's lots of turmoil right now that's going on in the world and people like yourselves are definitely so. It's so important to connect with people like you that can bring another like layer of consciousness and awakening and just say, okay, here, let me, let me talk with you, and I love the fact that you give space for that. I just think that's a beautiful thing, it's wonderful. So, before I ask the last question, if anyone is interested in your workshops, getting your book, where's the best place for them to go to? Right, we have a website there's a beautiful website everyone.
Speaker 3:
And you're welcome to write us.
Speaker 2:
There's a way you can send us a message to the website.
Speaker 3:
It's just a great way to send us a message. It's website, it's wwwsidebysideagingcom side by side, aging, calm, and there's lots of resources. If you want to do a book club, the soup and story thing is on there. So, yeah, it's all there.
Speaker 1:
I love that, I just love that so much. I love that side by side aging. I just think it's so cool. Um so let me ask you this, and you're gonna be like Rachel. Seriously, this is your last question what are your hopes for side by side, and what impact do you envision and have it on readers, and how can they perhaps maximize the insights gained from your book?
Speaker 2:
It's a good question, yeah, I would say, to see marriage and partnerships whether it's a state-sanctioned marriage or whatever kind of marriage you want to call it that there is a sacred dimension to it and that it takes a lot of work and it's worth it. It's not that you're doing it alone that couples who do this work have. They're islands of sanity, and young people know it, other people know it of the same age group and they're kind of beacons in a way. The other thing, too, I would say is that this culture is mostly focused on individuals and not couples. We're two or more gathered is a universal spiritual understanding, it's community, it's me and we, and there's real power in that. And so I would say to read the book, be critical, read it together that's what we recommend and see what comes, try it.
Speaker 3:
In my dream. All that, yes, and I really want to see these groups start happening in spiritual communities. It's all. It's so easy, it's very elegant, simple process and we're using circles of trust process that creates safe boundaries for the small group work. But if you can read it with your partner aloud and play with the questions, look at the interviews online. There's clips of interviews. And, even better yet, have two or more couples over for soup and salad and share it with them. And one of our couples, Marcy and Rick Jackson, when they were young, they married at a college. I don't know how they survived. They had a couples group and they talked about real, authentic problems that were happening and they said that was one of the reasons they're still together. And I hope this can start a movement. Dream big of couples doing that as they age, because there's a lot of demands of this age and there's also more and more increasing isolation. So it's a movement for couples to have conversations.
Speaker 2:
And it's very counter cultural.
Speaker 3:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
When you think about it. And yes, we're elders, but we're not so old that we can't have a lot of fun, and I see this as radical, radical fun.
Speaker 3:
We had so much fun last night just laughing and we shared stories around the table about our family traditions and food and you can't believe how much comes out with just that simple question. So absolutely.
Speaker 1:
Well, carol and Jay, thank you so much for coming to the Spiritual Spotlight series, you guys are amazing and I definitely look forward to speaking with you again soon.
