In this episode of "Flower in the River," I dive into the intricate history of the 1915 Eastland disaster, uncovering untold stories of bravery and legacy. Join me as I share new discoveries, reflect on historical research, and pay heartfelt tributes to the forgotten heroes of the tragedy.
Highlights:
New Listener Inquiries:
Address common questions from new listeners, clarifying my independent approach to the podcast and sharing how it evolved from my audiobook project.
Personal Reflections:
Reflect on the significance of fulfilling family promises, particularly the emotional journey of discovering and sharing my mother's lost family history.
Revisiting Key Literature:
Revisit George Hilton's definitive book, "Eastland: Legacy of the Titanic," discussing its impact on my understanding of the disaster and its role in my research.
Introducing Harry Birch:
Meet Harry Birch, a pioneering newsreel cameraman who filmed the Eastland disaster. I recount his fascinating career and the rediscovery of his footage.
Heroic Acts of Frederic W. Willard:
Introducing Frederic W. Willard, a hero who saved numerous lives during the Eastland disaster. Through historical newspapers, I bring his bravery to life.
The Importance of Preservation:
Say Hello to "Burt," the creator of the virtual Eastland Memorial on Find a Grave.
Key Quotes:
“In genealogy, we always have receipts.” - Jennifer Mendelsohn
“With over 800 people killed, you would think by now there would be at least 800 stories to go along with them!" - Natalie Zett
In this episode of "Flower in the River," I dive into the intricate history of the 1915 Eastland disaster, uncovering untold stories of bravery and legacy. Join me as I share new discoveries, reflect on historical research, and pay heartfelt tributes to the forgotten heroes of the tragedy.
Highlights:
New Listener Inquiries:
Address common questions from new listeners, clarifying my independent approach to the podcast and sharing how it evolved from my audiobook project.
Personal Reflections:
Reflect on the significance of fulfilling family promises, particularly the emotional journey of discovering and sharing my mother's lost family history.
Revisiting Key Literature:
Revisit George Hilton's definitive book, "Eastland: Legacy of the Titanic," discussing its impact on my understanding of the disaster and its role in my research.
Introducing Harry Birch:
Meet Harry Birch, a pioneering newsreel cameraman who filmed the Eastland disaster. I recount his fascinating career and the rediscovery of his footage.
Heroic Acts of Frederic W. Willard:
Introducing Frederic W. Willard, a hero who saved numerous lives during the Eastland disaster. Through historical newspapers, I bring his bravery to life.
The Importance of Preservation:
Say Hello to "Burt," the creator of the virtual Eastland Memorial on Find a Grave.
Key Quotes:
“In genealogy, we always have receipts.” - Jennifer Mendelsohn
“With over 800 people killed, you would think by now there would be at least 800 stories to go along with them!" - Natalie Zett
Hello, I'm Natalie Zett and welcome to Flower in the River. This podcast, inspired by my book of the same name, explores the 1915 Eastland disaster in Chicago and its enduring impact, particularly on my family's history. We'll explore the intertwining narratives of others impacted by this tragedy as well, and we'll dive into writing and genealogy and uncover the surprising supernatural elements that surface in family history research. Come along with me on this journey of discovery. Why? Hello there? And welcome to episode 63 of Flower in the River podcast. And I'm going to jump right in because this week I received more emails than usual from new listeners, which is fantastic, and I realized that I need to occasionally provide context for what is going on in this podcast, right? First of all, I want to address a very easy question that I got from a number of people Am I sponsored by or affiliated with an outside organization? I want to say a resounding no on both accounts. So this podcast is currently self-sustaining and operates without any sponsors. That's the way I want it to be for the moment. Now, the future might bring changes because doesn't it always? But for now, it's been crucial for examining what has and what hasn't been done regarding the Eastland disaster research. It's important to step back and to see what's missing, what's been accomplished, and to question everything. As a journalist for over 30 years and also as a genealogist, I feel it is my job, and all of our jobs who engage in this type of work, to look at things objectively as possible and frame them in a way that aligns with what actually happened. It's a tall order, I get that, but if you don't try, you won't succeed, right? So that's what I'm aiming for. It's kind of lofty, but it's better to aim high and things might change tomorrow, but I'm always ready to modify and adjust course, because maintaining integrity that's the biggest thing for me. I hope this all makes sense.
Natalie Zett:
I started this podcast when I was learning to record the audio book. I was trying to teach myself how to do this, and so I already had the microphone. So I thought well, the podcast format, let me get more experience doing this. But it was also a lot more forgiving than the stringent audiobook requirements. So in tandem with doing the audiobook and the podcast work, I realized that I had already fulfilled significant family promises. The biggest one was honoring my aunt's request to do something with our Chicago family's history, and that turned into the book Flower in the River, and also, maybe even more important than that, was the gift of being able to give my book to my mother right before she passed away, because this book contained her missing family history, and there's nothing like being able to give your own mother a huge piece of her history. That was a lot to accomplish all of that, so I thought I'm done, I'll end the podcast. Everything's out in the world, I can move on with my life. Well, you know how that goes.
Natalie Zett:
Then my research into the Eastland disaster took several interesting turns, with discovering even more possible family connections, discovering even more possible family connections, legal documents and so on. Here's the thing it didn't take long to realize that the Eastland disaster history is way more involved than what I initially thought it was. I mean, I had just discovered something pretty significant in terms of possible new family connections, and I also wondered about the broader community, the greater community of Chicago at that point, with all these different communities. Who were these people? Not the ones that were front and center, but who were the ones who were disappearing into the background and could be lost forever? Who were these people? I was driven by this burning desire to world build, to recreate the world of 1915 Chicago.
Natalie Zett:
Here's the other thing. With over 800 people killed during that time, you would think by now there would be at least 800 stories to go along with them, right? At least that's how I see it as a genealogist. But for the most part, that wasn't the case. It wasn't that the information wasn't there. I mean, even a cursory search online. I could find all sorts of information, but for whatever reason, there were so many stories that just had not been told. And Jennifer Mendelson, who's a wonderful genealogist, said quote in genealogy we always have receipts. So I just went looking for the receipts and here we are, however, many weeks later. That's what happened here Also, too. That's part of the reason I wanted to stay independent for this leg of the journey, because I want to be able to explore whatever I find, and as much as possible.
Natalie Zett:
I wanted to be able to question everything that I'd learned about the Eastland disaster and about the various people who were involved, to make sure that I don't miss anything along the way. One of the genealogy approaches at least of some of the people that I know is to get in there and try to disprove your pet theories. It can be painful, but it really yields a very interesting result when you let people speak for themselves and let a time speak for itself as much as possible, itself as much as possible. And one thing I've really enjoyed during this time is getting reacquainted with some old friends. Well, getting reacquainted with an old book.
Natalie Zett:
Specifically, I'm referring to the book by George Hilton, probably the definitive book about the Eastland. It's called Eastland Legacy of the Titanic. So Hilton is not saying that the Eastland it's called Eastland Legacy of the Titanic. So Hilton is not saying that the Eastland disaster and the Titanic are exactly the same thing. Okay, the Eastland disaster was influenced and perhaps the result of the decisions and regulatory changes that were made in response to the Titanic tragedy. The Titanic sinking led to increased safety regulations and modifications for passenger ships which ultimately affected the Eastland. Hilton suggests that these changes, meant to improve safety, inadvertently contributed to the Eastland's instability and subsequent disaster. So, rather than equating the two tragedies, hilton is highlighting the causal connection between the regulatory aftermath of the Titanic and the Eastland's fate of the Titanic and the Eastland's fate.
Natalie Zett:
And I will tell you when I first got that book probably in the late 90s, when I first discovered our family's connection to the Eastland disaster. I found it overwhelming and actually kind of off-putting and during that time it was really difficult. I mean, I just lost my dad and my mom, my sister and her kids. We were all just lost. And about a year after my dad died, my mother's half-sister in Chicago, who I thought was dead, sent this huge document that was the family history that was missing from our lives and I thought at the time what in the heck is this? My aunt in Chicago was, briefly, a reporter in the 1930s. She knew I was a writer and she said in a note to me here's all the history on this side of your family. I know that you don't know about it, but please do something with it. By then I think she was panicking because she was in her 80s and she knew she had well less time ahead of her than she had behind her and she'd done all this work on this genealogy and no one was interested in it and she was getting desperate and she thought where is this legacy going to go? Well, it was going to go to me and so I hope I have proved worthy of her faith in me and I want to continue doing that for her, even though she's been dead a number of years. So back to the George Hilton book.
Natalie Zett:
In the late 90s there were some things available online about the Eastland but, honestly, there wasn't much information because, well, everything was new in terms of online internet and that sort of thing. There was very little in the library and I honestly don't know how I even found George Hilton's book. But I found it on Amazon and I got it in 1998 because Amazon reminds me of that every so often. That was my only source about the Eastland disaster and, as I said during that time, I think I wanted something to provide connective tissue and this was more like finding an encyclopedia, which I was grateful for, because at least I knew that this thing that my mother's sister was talking about actually happened. But something was missing for me. I needed something more emotional to connect to this event so I could understand it, because it was brand new information to me about a place I'd never lived, about people I never knew, and I was trying to find a portal into that world. In some ways I still am, and when I found Hilton's book and it is the ultimate reference book about the Eastland I was not ready for it, I was not able to take in the gift that it was able to take in the gift that it was. And now I rely on this book so much because every time I go in to research something or someone from the Eastland, george's book is still one of the first resources that I consult because if something significant happened regarding the Eastland, it is likely to be referenced in George Hilton's book.
Natalie Zett:
I appreciate his work because it is truly agnostic. What do I mean by that? Hilton's book doesn't give preferential treatment to certain victims of the Eastland. When he highlights a victim, a family, someone involved in a court case or any other individual, it's to illustrate a larger point. It serves a greater purpose ensuring that fairness will happen throughout the book, and that's what makes his work so important. It really is balanced and objective. If he were alive today, I think he would continue to maintain that focus, and to me that's the mark of the ultimate scholar. And thankfully he not only documented everything within an inch of its life, he cited all of the sources that he could.
Natalie Zett:
Are there some errors in this book? Yes, there are errors in the book and most of that has to do with typos or newer information has been found that kind of cancels out the previous bit of information. And the other thing too, is this book, I think, was published in the mid-90s is this book, I think, was published in the mid-90s and a lot has changed since then in terms of the amount of information that is available. History is always changing. Genealogy is always changing. We know that and we know it's not one and done. We know that we are going to have to constantly correct our course, update information. So, george Hilton, let me tell you a little bit more about him, just in case you don't know who he is. He passed away 10 years ago and here's a snippet from his obit and it gives a clue as to why this book is so well, amazing and thorough.
Natalie Zett:
George Hilton was a professor of economics at UCLA. He was a summa cum laude graduate of Dartmouth College. He had a PhD from the University of Chicago and wrote his dissertation at the London School of Economics. He specialized in transportation economics. He wrote 15 books, notably a book on the Eastland disaster of Chicago in 1915. Just your average guy, right? Not at all. This guy was amazing and I'm glad he used his mental abilities and his drive to do this for the Eastland. And I say this to George, I'm sure somehow he's listening. George, it took me years to appreciate your work, but be assured that I certainly appreciate it now. Sometimes we're given things in our journeys, whether it's a genealogy from a family member or a book like George Hilton's book, where you know it will be important someday and in a sense you have to walk out in faith with it. And I had at least enough self-awareness to say, to say, hang in there with this, because someday you're going to need this book. And so someday. Well, it happened. And were George Hilton alive now, I bet he'd be harnessing the power of the newest technology to update the book.
Natalie Zett:
So, getting back to some of the questions people have asked me, my mission in terms of sharing these stories, well, it's number one to bring them back from obscurity, because, boy, so many of them are getting lost and buried. And I also want to counter the historical myopia that just it naturally happens anyway as time passes after an event, it's so easy to lose the details, so easy to lose the stories. The other thing that happens and it happens with everything is that certain stories are repeated over and over again until they are cemented in our consciousness. But the problem with that is that there's always more to the event than just the handful of stories that are told. To rephrase a very old Peggy Lee song, that's not all there is.
Natalie Zett:
So how I create these stories? Each week I research old newspapers and other publications from that time period. The majority of what I research it's freely available. It's in the public domain. It's sometimes difficult to find, but if you've got the will you can find it. Many stories that I thought how is this humanly possible for me to get them out? Well, I just make a decision to put them out as quickly as I can each week.
Natalie Zett:
And I'm very clear too that this is not exhaustive research. It will be at some point. But, in other words, at this juncture I've only scratched the surface and I'm very clear about that. But I probably need to say that again. And I'm not some kind of expert on this event, right, but I'm somebody that knows how to research, somebody that knows how to source site and somebody that knows how to put things together and tell stories. And somebody that knows how to put things together and tell stories. And also and I do think this makes a difference I lost somebody, a family member, in the Eastland disaster. So, yes, indeed, it's very personal and I also live with the downstream effects of what that did to that branch of the family, and some of it was not very good.
Natalie Zett:
And I'm very clear that what I'm doing is laying the groundwork, and I will eventually need to revisit each one of these stories that I've shared with you and see what else is available. So, now that I've built up quite a cache of folders and such about these various people I've covered, when I do find additional information about them and I know I might not be able to share that during the podcast I add it to my website, and now I've also been adding a lot of this information to their profiles on Find a Grave. And that's how I've been handling all this, because for me this too, is very much uncharted territory, and I always think about the Eastland people and I say mentally what do I do with all of you people? So I can tell you this each week, as I research, I find things that are surprising and they're brand new to me as well, and I hope you find them also surprising and fresh and interesting. I hope, too, that this expands and changes your idea not just of the Eastland disaster, but of other historical events. Okay, it's time to move on.
Natalie Zett:
This week I've been in contact with Bert. Bert is the guy who set up the virtual Eastland Memorial on Find a Grave that I've talked about a number of times. Yes, on Find a Grave that I've talked about a number of times, yes, he's a real person and I'm slowly learning the magic of Find a Grave as well and contributing some of my findings there, getting more comfortable with that, and I also learned that there are other virtual Eastland memorials on Find a Grave, but so far Bert's seems to be the most updated and he is also very engaged, although I will admit that I had a lot of misgivings about Find a Grave in the past and they were warranted. They have since improved and it is becoming one of my main go-to places because of the relevancy and because, in a sense, the graves are being tended to Make sense. Okay, so right now I'm thinking, since I'm accumulating a fair number of rescuer stories, maybe I'll make my own virtual Eastland Memorial Rescuers site or something like that. On Find a Grave, I'll let you know if that happens. Okay, are you ready to meet some new people? I know you are, because otherwise you wouldn't be here.
Natalie Zett:
I want to introduce you to a man called Harry Birch. Before I read this article about him, I want to first tell you how I got acquainted with him. It was only a few months ago that we watched a Smithsonian-sponsored series called America in Color. The first episode was the 1920s and it featured this guy, harry Burch, who was living in Chicago, and of course I paid attention to that. And Harry Burch is credited as being one of the first people to make home movies of his family and they were actually fun to watch and I thought what an interesting person and it was so cool to see him laughing with his wife and his little boy. And they're just goofing off and not thinking that someday, many years later, almost 100 years later, people would be watching their home movies. It's just kind of crazy. So I wanted to know more about him.
Natalie Zett:
Harry was born in San Francisco in 1894, and he lived through the 1906 earthquake and as a teenager he moved to Los Angeles and worked for an entrepreneur whose last name was Kelly, and this Kelly person owned a movie studio and theaters. Harry Burch learned to be a projectionist and was later sent to Chicago where he discovered his passion for filming. By 1915, harry became a newsreel cameraman for Fox Newsreel and eventually opened his own company, burch Films. He shot news, promotional films, scenic films, short subjects, industrials and travel films for companies like Castle Films, santa Fe Railroad, chicago Northwestern Railroad and Wilding Studios. You heard me say that Harry was there in Chicago in 1915, and he had a camera, all right, so that is going to come up in a second. Harry was also active in the 1933 Chicago World's Fair and in 1951, filmed Modern Football directed by a very young Robert Altman.
Natalie Zett:
With the advent of television, harry worked for WBKB, chicago's first TV station, and was in charge of the camera department. He shot shows like Kukla, fran and Ollie. That was a puppet show, I think, and he retired at age 65. And he retired at age 65. Harry passed away on August 14, 1968, in Fort Lauderdale, florida, leaving a significant legacy in news and entertainment. But that's not all. The following article is from a website called Moving Image Research Collections, mirc at the University of South Carolina, filming the wreck of the SS Eastland, harry Birch and the making of a Chicago news family.
Natalie Zett:
100 years ago this week, the Western Electric Company in Chicago hosted its employees on the SS Eastland for a day of relaxation, a day away from work, a day together as a family. Over 2,000 employees boarded the Great Lakes passenger ship. While it was moored on the Chicago River, it was raining. Harry Birch, a young cameraman in Chicago, probably began his day as usual. He got up to go to the office With its decks filled with passengers, the Eastland pushed off from the dock at the Clark Street Bridge on its way to Michigan City, indiana. It listed hard to port, took water and settled onto the bottom of the river In a few moments. 800-plus people were dead.
Natalie Zett:
On this 100th anniversary of the disaster, others, more knowledgeable about the ship's sinking, can write about the events of that day in general. Here, though, I want to touch on how this event impacted just one family, the Birches of Chicago, and how the Eastland may well be responsible for the professional careers of two of Chicago's most important news cameramen Harry Burch and his son Bill. Harry Burch was a young cameraman. On July 24, 1915, having only moved that year from Los Angeles to Chicago In July, he was splitting his time between the Rothacker Film Company and the Chicago Tribune animated newsreel. The films he would make that day for the Tribune would reach across the country and the globe. Harry Burch arrived at the Clark Bridge dock within minutes of the Eastlands sinking.
Natalie Zett:
Two audio testimonies exist in the Harry and William Burch collection documenting Burch's work that morning. This is a very short audio clip. This is a link, by the way, in Harry's own words that begins to describe the event. After a minute of audio, the tape is recorded over with music. The second is an audio tape made by Harry's son, bill Birch, reviewing the facts of Harry's testimony. After listening to the audio tape made by Harry, bill summarizes the content of the original tape made by Harry, providing some information about the content, although Bill is instructing Harry on how to frame a new recording so it can be used as part of a planned Alex Dreyer ABC News feature story.
Natalie Zett:
Through his instructions to Harry, we learned what Harry did that morning. According to this combined testimony, harry was at the Erie and Clark Streets when fire trucks roared down Clark Street. He grabbed a cab and went with his camera to the dock. Arriving just before 8 am, he then began filming the rescue effort. When I first began talking with Bill Birch in 2005, he asked me if I could help find his father's film of the disaster, although Moving Image Research Collections has over 200 negatives from Harry Birch's camera. In our collection we did not have his film of the Eastland. A family scrapbook with heart-wrenching images from that day and subsequent days with heart-wrenching images from that day and subsequent days, including frames printed from Harry's camera, was all that remained. But Harry had passed this story to his son who carried it with him his entire life. It was certainly the type of news story that drove the young Bill Birch to devote his life to newsreels and television news. Young Bill Birch to devote his life to newsreels and television news.
Natalie Zett:
To the astonishment of many, two fragments of film showing the Eastland on the day of the sinking recently surfaced in European film archives. In the piece found at the Eye Film Institute in the Netherlands, the Eastland footage begins one minute and ten seconds into the video. This longer and more graphic clip, most definitely sold by the Selig Tribune to British Pathé, provides strong evidence in support of Harry Birch being the cameraman. Many of the still images at MIRC mirror the activities captured in this film. The composition and the camera angles are also close matches. In all probability both these sequences were shot by Harry Birch, as he remains the only individual associated with films made on the day of the disaster. Films made on the day of the disaster the Sinking of the Eastland was the story that established Harry Birch's credentials as a newsreel cameraman. He would later work for Galmut Mutual News and Fox News.
Natalie Zett:
Harry had a lifelong career in Chicago-area films, helping to found Local 666, making industrial films and finally working in television. His son, bill Birch, grew up wanting to do nothing more than shoot the news. He worked for Fox Movietone News prior to and after World War II. During the war, he filmed with Brank Capra's Signal Corps outfit. He established the NBC network news division in Chicago in the early 1950s and stayed active in television news through the 1970s, during which time he expanded his portfolio to include feature films and significant documentaries. His son, randy Birch, also became a television news cameraman for NBC. A special note of thanks to Marjorie Fritz Birch, bill's wife and partner of over 30 years, for making possible the Harry and William Birch Collection at the University of South Carolina's Moving Image Research Collections.
Natalie Zett:
This was written approximately in 2015 by Dr Greg Wilschbacher, who was the MIRC curator. I will share links to this article because I'd like you to go to the website and take a look at the photos that Harry made of the Eastland disaster, a few of those I have seen previously, but most of these were brand new to me. Also, to the links to the audio they don't work. I'm in contact with somebody at the University of South Carolina and I'm hoping she can help me track some of this down. As for the lost footage of the Eastland disaster, that is available on YouTube. If you haven't seen it, I will share the links to that. So lots of links need to be updated, of course, but what is so significant about this is that I've never heard of Harry Birch before. I have not seen Harry Birch referenced in any of the books about the Eastland disaster, including George Hilton's, which I find very interesting. So I'm not sure what that is. I'm really not, but there has to be some explanation, and so that remains to be seen. But I want to bring this one out of the shadows too and put it out there.
Natalie Zett:
Here's Harry's obituary, august 16th 1968. Harry H Birch. Private services for Harry H Birch, 73, a motion picture cameraman in the Chicago area for more than 50 years, were being planned yesterday in Fort Lauderdale, florida. Mr Birch, a charter member and past president of Local 666, international Alliance of Theater and Stage Employees, died Wednesday in his retirement home in Fort Lauderdale. He was the chief cameraman for WBKB-TV until 1955 and for many years was employed as a news photographer for CBS and for many years was employed as a news photographer for CBS. Surviving are his widow, lucille, a son, william H, and two grandchildren. Well, what do you think of that? And, as you probably noticed, there's no mention of the disaster in Harry's obituary.
Natalie Zett:
Well, we have to move on, because there's more that I want to share with you. I want to introduce you to somebody else now. Initial F like Frederick. Initial F like Frederick W Willard. This is from the suburbanite economist, chicago, july 30th 1915. Headline saves 20 with rope. Fw Willard himself in the water aids.
Natalie Zett:
Rescue of companions, chicago. Fw Willard, a member of the Western Electric Committee in charge of the arrangements for the excursion, not only saved his own life but that of about 25 other persons. He was on the lower deck and as the boat began turning over, he found a rope, seized hold of it and swung himself out into the water. There, holding by one hand to the rope, he seized about a score of the victims who had been thrown into the water. He helped them to get hold of the rope and cling to it until rescuers took them ashore. So, with only his initials to go by and his status as rescuer, I had to do a lot of back and forth to first of all find out his first name, and I was able to do that thanks to some old newspapers. And one thing led to another and I was able to get quite a bit of information about Fred, and I'll share that with you.
Natalie Zett:
Let's rewind to july 24th 1915. The eastland, of course, capsizes in the chicago river and amidst the chaos, many stories of incredible heroism emerged, and one was that of frederick wilson. Frederick Wilson Willard. Born on April 16, 1881, frederick graduated from the University of Michigan in 1906, and by 1915, he was a manufacturing executive at Western Electric Company. He lived in Oak Park, illinois, with his wife, maud M Willard. On that fateful day, wife Maud M Willard, on that fateful day, frederick's bravery shone through. As the Eastland listed dangerously, he found a rope, swung out into the water and clung on with one hand while rescuing those struggling in the river. His quick thinking saved about 25 lives that day, as we just heard. But who was this guy? What was his personality like? Frederick's dedication didn't stop with the Eastland.
Natalie Zett:
Now I want to read Frederick's obituary. This is from the Courier News, plainfield, new Jersey, august 12th 1947. 12th 1947. Summit. Frederick W Willard, 66, prominent metallurgist and chemical engineer who recently retired as the president of the Nassau Smelting and Refining Company, a Western Electric subsidiary, died in his home here yesterday, august 11, 1947. In 1940, mr Willard served as chairman of a committee of the National Research Council which made a survey of scientific research in private industry for the National Resources Board. During the recent war, mr Willard served as a lieutenant colonel officers reserve chemical warfare service. Mr Willard was prominent in business and civic life here, having served five years on the Board of Education and as a trustee of Overlook Hospital. He leaves a widow and two daughters.
Natalie Zett:
What's astonishing about Fred Willard's obituary and so many of these obituaries, is the fact that the Eastland disaster is not mentioned. Whether the person is a rescuer or a relative of somebody who died, etc. It's very seldom mentioned in their obituaries, etc. It's very seldom mentioned in their obituaries and therefore I think it's important to acknowledge all of these people's contributions here in this podcast and, of course, to record this information and cite the sources so it's available for people, so they get a much broader understanding of who all of these people were, who, at one point in their lives, were involved with the Eastland disaster.
Natalie Zett:
And I've run out of time and I have so many more people to share with you and we'll continue doing that next week. In the meantime, have a good week and I'll talk to you soon. Have a good week and I'll talk to you soon. Hey, that's it for this episode and thanks for coming along for the ride. Please subscribe or follow so you can keep up with all the episodes, and for more information, please go to my website, that's wwwflowerintherivercom. I hope you'll consider buying my book, available as audiobook, ebook, paperback and hardcover, because I still owe people money. This podcast and my book are dedicated to the memory of all who experienced the Eastland disaster of 1915. Goodbye for now.