Subpar Talks

E47 -America: Dreams, Ditties, and Dummies

• Subpar Talks

Share episode

Happy Independence Day! Our forefathers died so you could sit around, eat hot dogs, drink beer, and listen to great content, so do your patriotic duty and turn up the volume as you stuff your face. The American Dream: we’ve all been told about it, but is it a reality or a myth? Chris brings us a top-ten list (Jeff is happy) of patriotic songs, and Jeff has a list of his own, which shows us that the percentage of Americans who don’t believe in basic facts is alarming. 

 Hosted by Chris and Jeff

  

1.     Topics

 2.     Additional Resources

3.     Merchandise/Support the Show

 4.     Contact Us/Follow Us/Rate/Subscribe

 New episodes every week!

 Listen, rate, follow, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts!

 Follow us:

 5.     Credits

Support the show

Jeff:

This week, the American Dream, patriotic songs, and dumb Americans. Happy Fourth everybody. Welcome to Subpar Talks. Hey everybody. Welcome to Subpar Talks where we have conversations about everything. I'm Jeff.

Chris:

And I'm Chris.

Jeff:

Thank you again for joining us. And of course, at this point it is our standard disclaimer, listener discretion is advised. We are gonna curse, maybe a lot, and depending on the episode, we will touch on some mature subject matter and we inject our humor into a lot of this stuff. So if that is not your thing, then perhaps we are not your thing, but for everybody else, most of you know what you're getting into by this point. So settle in because here we go with this week's topics. OK, so this episode is dropping on July 4th, otherwise known as Independence Day. Do you typically celebrate Independence Day? Do you do anything special?

Chris:

Usually in one way or another. Um, sometimes just, I mean, since it is a national holiday here and we don't have to work, you know, sometimes I'll be hanging out with people at a pool, something like that, but a lot of times it's ended with going to fireworks show or something like that. I mean, nothing really big, but something.

Jeff:

Yeah. Not to harp on the weather, but that always gets me is I have. Ben at fireworks shows on July 4th at night. Just sitting there and I'm sweating and I'm like sweating. Is this worth it? This is really worth it. That's right. Why couldn't the Americans have declared their independence in like March? That would've been a lot better.

Chris:

I know. Well, they probably never thought anybody would be stupid enough to live in Texas, so...

Jeff:

God forsaken country.

Chris:

I know.

Jeff:

Yeah. OK, so what do you have for us? We have some, we have some July 4th, Independence Day themed kind of American stuff, and I think you have a couple of things, so let's do it.

Chris:

I do. So one of the first topics I had here was American dream, myth or reality. Mm. OK. And like that it makes you think, and of course we could go down a million different roads with that, but. What are your thoughts on that? Is it a myth reality? Uh, this is one of those things where I, I hear a phrase or a word and it triggers something in my brain, but George Carlin said it's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. Yeah. So I talk about this some with my students, like early on in, in my American government course. And Ev, this resonates with everybody. Like if you grew up in this country and most of my students have, you're told at some point, this is America. You can be anything you wanna be, right? Right. You can be like, whatever your dreams are, you can achieve them. There's nothing holding you back. And then as people. Experience the world, experience the country they live, just living. You realize that, OK, there are some things, maybe many things, depending on who you are that are barriers to achieving your true potential. And a lot of that is gonna be based on, well, I was gonna say privilege, but a lot of it is money. It's money. Yeah. And you might have the. You might have the wherewithal, the knowledge, the skill, the talent, whatever it is. But if you grow up poor, and this is not just me talking statistics, studies prove this out. If you grow up poor, the chances are really, really good that you're gonna be poor when you reach adulthood, and if you are privileged when you're growing up, the chances are really good that you're still gonna be privileged. When you reach adulthood, there's not a lot of poor people. There's not a lot of rags to Rich's stories. We could find exceptions to that. Of course. Yeah. But by and large, that's not the case. And the exceptions are great to hear. I mean, they're extremely motivating. Mm-hmm. They're happy. They, they, they lift you up. But yeah, you're right. They're, they are not the majority. We got on that one time in class and, uh, somebody mentioned race, how race. Can be a barrier to people achieving their success. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And so they, they mentioned, you know, black people and I had a student. I had a student say, well, what about Michael Jordan and Oprah Winfrey? That was his correspond. And of course it drew laughs from the rest of the students, but hello, think that's the norm. Not even close right now. I don't know. I don't know about Michael Jordan's history. Now, Oprah is one of those rags to riches. Absolutely. I mean, yeah, she, she grew up, does dirt pour,

Jeff:

right? Yeah. I don't really know Michael Jordan's background either, but the idea, I mean, for every rags to richest story you can find in this country, there are millions and millions of others who are basically living the same as their parents did. Yeah. That's just the

Chris:

reality. Yeah, for sure. Have you ever seen a newsroom. The series Newsroom.

Jeff:

Yes. Yeah. It's one of those that I wished it would've kept going, but they ended after like, what was it, three seasons?

Chris:

I don't remember how long it was. I really liked it. Um, yeah, it was really great. But there's, there's a scene and it's, I wanna say it's the first episode. It's, you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Yeah. I do know what you, you talking about the first episode? Yeah. Where the question is why is America the greatest country? And so the phrasing of the question is already assuming that it is. So just tell me why it is and the, the two people to his left and right, they said that it was diversity, opportunity, and freedom. Mm-hmm. Well, he's avoiding the question at first. And by the way, this is Jeff Daniels, you know, which I find funny because Jeff Daniels, I don't know him from a lot of things. But the thing that always sticks out in my mind is Dumb and Dumber.

Jeff:

Yeah, I know it.

Chris:

Right. When he was in there with Jim Carey, and so to see him in a role like this is so 180 degrees. It is. You almost at the very beginning like, wait, am I supposed to take this guy Seriously? Yep. But he gives a great speech and it's, yep. You know, it's, it's all over social media where he's essentially just putting down all of these statistics about mm-hmm. The US compared all these other countries and, you know, just that, I mean, yeah, we're diverse countries, so are other countries opportunity. Sure the opportunity is there, but it's there more so for certain people than others. And then freedom. He is like, he just starts naming off all these other countries that are free. Now in some, I mean, we could argue all day long about, oh, we're better at this than somebody else's when it comes to the freedoms that we have and things like that. But it's true, we're not so, we're not nearly as unique as we've been led to believe since we were kids.

Jeff:

We we're always taught. You know, the so-called American Dream, we are taught about American exceptionalism. Right? And that's an idea that goes way, way, way, way back. The idea that we are exceptional. Uh, you're gonna find some people who say we're, we're like the new chosen people, right? It's God's will that, you know, this is his country and you're gonna find God bless America. Yeah, God bless America. It gets fed to us. And so when you're young, you don't really question that, right? You're not questioning authority when you're 10 years old. You're just accepting what these adults are telling you that America's an exceptional country. But as I said earlier, as you live, you experience life and you start learning about other places and how other countries do things and the freedoms that they have, and, and you learn that we're not really that exceptional in a lot of different categories.

Chris:

Yeah, I do wonder, I mean, I say I wonder, I know things were different, but you know, if you, you think ab, you just said that if you're 10 years old, you don't question it. But think about how much things have changed since we were 10 years old. True. And think about how much things have changed since our parents were 10 years old and it was our parents who were telling us that. Right. Yeah. I mean, yeah,

Jeff:

absolutely.

Chris:

They were in their what, thirties, maybe forties when they're telling us that. And so from the time they were 10 years old up through their thirties and forties, America was very different than it is now. We did lead the world and a whole lot of things that we just don't lead in

Jeff:

anymore. We used to, this is part of the issue, and maybe this is a broader topic, but we used to invest. In our own country, in our own people. Mm-hmm. And we largely just don't do that anymore. I mean, look at all that we accomplished in the immediate aftermath of World War ii, like the 1950s interstate highway system, all the space program, even into the 1960s. There's a lot going on there. And now it's like, what the fuck do we even do? Like we have to argue about whether we're gonna be able to invest in our infrastructure.

Chris:

Right. Well, and you know, a big difference between then and now are taxes. Taxes were a lot higher back then. Yeah, there, there was, I mean, I'm not gonna say more actual dollars, but in percentages there were more dollars in percentages to go around to the people. And, and whether that's building infrastructure for those people or whatever it was, it was there. Now we've got so many more people and our taxes are a fraction of what they were. Yep,

Jeff:

very good point. So, what's our conclusion on the American Dream?

Chris:

Well, so I think I, I mean, it's, it's a much deeper topic. I don't think we can just say it absolutely doesn't exist because, yeah, yeah. There are people who come here from other countries and it, it amazes me. I mean, you can still hear about it. You know, people who have come here. With literally nothing. Mm-hmm. And they make something of themselves and whatever they make of themselves, it could be better than what they had back at home and Yep. It's, it's the fact that they're able to do that. Now, if they're coming from other countries, sure. They may be facing racism and, and poverty. Yeah. To whatever degree they're facing poverty. But some of those people can pull themselves up. Say, pull them up by their bootstraps. Mm-hmm. But you know what I mean? They, yeah. They, they work themselves out of it. But again, those can still be exceptions to that. So I think it's there. I, I think the, the reality is there for certain people. But I think it's a myth in terms of the way it's presented. Yeah. I think it's presented as, it's almost a given, you know, you li it's, it's given, like this is the greatest country in the world, the land of opportunity you can do or be anything you want, period, end of story. Mm-hmm. And it's not, it's not the right, it's not period, end of story. There's so much more to that. And I think that's where the myth is it, it is reality for some people, but it's not nearly as simple as it's been made to sound.

Jeff:

Yep. I think that's accurate.

Chris:

OK. So one of the other things I looked into for today's topic was looking at music and the music that. Kind of represents this patriotism in the US and I came across a couple of different ways of looking at this. So one was looking at truly patriotic songs, and I mean this in terms of things that you associate with the us, the Republic, the historical type songs. And then the other side is looking at some more pop culture songs. That are also seen as patriotic songs, but they're not your historical songs. So I've got a top 10 list on the more patriotic songs. OK. And then a much longer list on some of the ones that are more pop culture, which we're certainly not gonna go through. All of those, we can kind of pick and choose. Gonna going through that

Jeff:

list. All right. Well, let's start at 10. I, I'm, I love top 10, Liz, so I know you do. Let's

Chris:

go. Here we go. Yeah. We started

Jeff:

smiling when I said top 10. Yeah. Here we go. I did. It's like Letterman top 10. Let's go. Right. Amen. Oh, that

Chris:

was some good stuff. I hate that. We don't have that anymore. Yep. All right, so number 10, battle him of the Republic. And OK. You're gonna have to, you're gonna have to link to this because there's some, some songs that are mentioned here, like, OK, I know the title and there's even, even one here where I didn't even know the title of it, but I know the song. OK. The song is, is very well known song.

Jeff:

OK. I'm pretty sure Battle Him of the Republic is from the Civil War. And it was, uh, it was like a union song, like, you know, the United States, God's on our side and I Do you know the word? I don't remember the words to it, but I know it's got God in there and his truth is marching on and all that. It was, yeah. Yeah. It was to show that God's really on the side of the union, not those idiot confederates in the south. Right. Yeah, yeah,

Chris:

yeah. So the Battle Hem of the Republic says, it was written by an abolitionist, poet and writer, Julia Ward Howell, um, wrote this song to the abolitionist tune of John Brown's body. Like that's the name of the tune. OK. I've never heard that that was a thing. No, but it was written in 1861 says on the eve of the American Civil War. And over the next 150 years, it became associated with the suffrage movement, the Civil Rights Movement. It was the last line in Martin Luther King's speech right before he was assassinated. Um, and the line is, my eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord, so, wow. That's, that's that song. So very, very well known. And I know the title, battle Himm of the Republic, but I had to listen to a part of it to remind myself exactly which one that was.

Jeff:

Yeah, see, I don't really know the words. I knew that little, uh, stretch that you just mentioned. And, uh, I know the tune, but yeah, I didn't know the background of it. I knew it was from the Civil War, but I didn't know the, the background. That's cool.

Chris:

Well, the very idea of having a tune called John Brown's body, that doesn't sound good.

Jeff:

Yeah, well, John Brown was the, he was the abolitionist and he was the one who tried to free the slaves at Harper's Ferry in Virginia, and And he was executed for it. They hung him. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess by that point he was like a hero. I think that was like 1850. I don't remember what, so he was a hero among abolitionists, so they had a song, And then, uh, she wrote new words to it. I

Chris:

saw a, I saw a quote, a quote the other day. This was on Facebook where they were, they were showing different t-shirts by this company where mm-hmm. They had, um, these ironic quotes as though they were from a historical person. And clearly they weren't. Um, one of them was George Washington saying it's only treason if you lose.

Jeff:

That's absolutely right. It's pretty funny. That's like in, in sports. It's not a penalty if the ref doesn't see it. That's right.

Chris:

Gotta get caught. Yeah, and then this one was hilarious. You'd like this. It said it had a picture of Abraham Lincoln underneath it, it said Ford's Theater, and then it had one star and said, awful. Would not recommend.

Jeff:

That's great, man. That reminds me, this has been years ago. I came across this on Facebook, but it was a guy dressed up as Lincoln. Sitting in a Starbucks and he's texting on his phone. Mm-hmm. And like, I have no idea who this person was. I don't know who took the picture or whatever, but of course everybody has to add their own caption to it. And my favorite was Mary's dragging me to a play tonight. Kill me.

Chris:

That's hilarious.

Jeff:

Yeah. OK, so what's number nine?

Chris:

OK, number nine is Yankee Doodle. Oh, OK. And it says, as well as being a popular nursery rhyme on both sides of the Atlantic. So I didn't know that. Um, this song serves as patriotic function in the US and is in fact, the state anthem of Connecticut originally sung by British soldiers to mock the Yankees in the pre-revolutionary age, Uhhuh, it morphed into an American song of defiance with added verses that mocked British troops. Huh. Oh,

Jeff:

so

Chris:

fuck them. Yeah. Sounds like an absolutely in your face.

Jeff:

Yeah. You can go to hell. Yeah. Do you know what macaroni is? I never knew what that was when I was a kid. The macaroni? No. I always thought it

Chris:

was macaroni and I never understood that

Jeff:

part of it. Macaroni, Midler. So it was a type of dress, it was like a type of fancy dress. So that was the, the ironic or funny part that he just sticks a feather in his hat and he is saying, Hey, look at my macaroni. It's all, you know, I'm fancy now I got a feather in my hat.

Chris:

OK. Yeah. I never understood as a kid how a feather became macaroni. Why'd you call it macaroni?

Jeff:

I finally decided to look that up several years ago. Cuz Yeah, I was like, what the hell? And the last part, Yankee doodle, keep it up. Yankee. Yankee Doodle dandy. Mind. Mind. The music and the step. And the step. I think it's step, yeah. And with the girls be handy. Yeah. I like that. That line was always curious. To me. It sounds like he's playing grab ass with the girls, right?

Chris:

Well, maybe so. Maybe we, we've talked about other presidents and what they've done,

Jeff:

so yeah. Yankee doodles at it again. Yankee doodles. Gonna do some ling. All right. Number eight. All

Chris:

right, so number eight is the song that I did not know at all. It's called, well, I know the song. I didn't know the name. It's called The Washington Post.

Jeff:

No, that's a newspaper.

Chris:

Yeah. Well, it's actually named for the guy who was associated with the newspaper. Oh, so, OK. It says John Phillip Sosa,

Jeff:

I guess. Sosa. Yeah. Sosa ssa. Yeah. OK. Yeah. He was a director, a writer, whatever.

Chris:

Yeah. Yeah. Was asked to compose this march in 1889 for an essay contest, award ceremony, run by the Washington Post. The result was an instant hit leading a British journalist to Dub Sousa, the March King.

Jeff:

What the hell is the song? Are there lyrics or is it just uh, instrumental?

Chris:

It's just instrumental. I don't know that there are any words to it. I think it's just instrumental.

Jeff:

Huh. But you said you know the

Chris:

song. Yeah. You'll 100% recognize it. OK.

Jeff:

Hold on. Oh yeah. I know that. I like the song

Chris:

too. It's a very, yeah. It's, it's really cool as an

Jeff:

orchestra. Yeah. OK. So I'm pretty sure at the beginning of the movie, a Few Good Men, they're showing the people, the Marines doing the marches and all that. I'm pretty sure that's what's playing. I had no idea that that was called The Washington Post. Yeah. Huh. I didn't either, man. I'm learning. I'm learning. It's good, right? What's next? OK,

Chris:

number seven is the battle cry of freedom. So that's actually another one that I didn't know as the title, but I recognized it when I heard it. That says, uh, this song was written by George Frederick Root in 1862 became so popular that at one point the music publisher could not keep up with demand. Despite having 14 printing presses going at once. Whoa. Um, it was used as the campaign song for the Lincoln Johnson ticket in the 1864 presidential election, huh, and has remained a favor regularly, regularly quoted over the years by artists ranging from Elvis Costello to the 20th century composer, Charles Ives, who included it in several of his works.

Jeff:

I don't think I recognize this. I've

Chris:

never heard that. Hmm. Sounded a little familiar to me, but like I said, not nothing like the other one. Yeah. OK, so number six. God bless America. I think we all know that one. Uh, yeah. Written by Irving Berlin, but says he never published it. So in the end, it was the singer Kate Smith, who brought it to the public's attention, resurrecting it on the eve of World War ii, coming across as a prayer for deliverance in dark times. It was used early on during the Civil Rights movement and as long served as something of political talisman with President since Ronald Reagan ending their speeches with it. Hmm. All right. Number five, my country, ti of thee. OK, so the melody for that is the same as the British National Anthem. God saved the king is what this says. No, I thought it was God Save the Queen.

Jeff:

Do they choose Maybe they that they updated? Yeah, maybe they updated it with Charles. I don't know.

Chris:

I. Huh. But the words are by the 19th century American Baptist minister, journalist and author Samuel Francis Smith, and were first performed at a Children's Independence Day celebration in Boston in 1831. Wow. It was performed at Barack Obama's, uh, inauguration in 2009 by Aretha Franklin. So, We used to sing it in school. Growing up, we'd sing it every, every like once a

Jeff:

week. We would sing it some too. Yeah. Yep.

Chris:

So number four is another one of those that we would sing once a week was America The Beautiful? Yeah. This song was born out of a poem called Pikes Peak by the American author, professor, and social activist Catherine Lee Bates. She wrote it an 1893 on a train ride to Colorado where she had taken up a teaching post inspired by the view of the Great Plains from the pinnacle of the mountain. She was Kathy Bates. Yeah, she was. Whenever I hear of Kathy Bates, and I know I've seen her in a bunch of stuff, but I always think of misery.

Jeff:

I think of misery and then the hot tub scene and Oh man, what? Whatever that movie is with Jack Nicholson.

Chris:

What was um, Schmidt? About Schmidt?

Jeff:

About Schmidt? Yeah. Yeah. I don't really remember anything from that movie, but, but that stands out. Well, remember that. Oh, misery's great though.

Chris:

I need to see that again. I wasn't a, a big fan of it when I saw it and that I, I'm trying to remember if I've ever seen the whole thing more than once. I know I've seen bits and pieces more than once, but mm-hmm. I saw it in the theater and that was literally a lifetime ago. Yeah. Kathy Bates was up for Best Actress. I think she won it that year. She was against Julia Roberts and Pretty Woman. Oh,

Jeff:

wow. OK. Well, yeah. Yeah. Kathy Bates, if she didn't win, she should have, my God, she's so good in that. I

Chris:

know you, Julia Roberts didn't win. I think Kathy Bates beat her out. So number three, and I'm shocked that this isn't number one. Number three is the Star-Spangled Banner.

Jeff:

OK. I figured we were headed to that one for number one.

Chris:

Hmm. Yeah. National Anthem of the United States. This tune started life as a popular song written by the British composer John Stafford Smith for a men's social club in London. Before being repurposed as an emblem of US patriotism, the words were by the 35 year old author and amateur poet, Francis Scott. Key. Inspired by the large US flag with 15 stars, 15 stripes that flew triumphantly above the fort after the US victory in the battle of Baltimore of 1812. Mm-hmm. So that's the flag that I said I saw when we went to the American Museum, uh, or what is it? Museum of American History. Yeah. Uh, Smithsonian in Washington, DC That was really cool to see. That was very cool to see. So,

Jeff:

Do you know anything about the song? Like there are, I think there are three other verses. We never sing them.

Chris:

I have, I, I know I've heard one or two, but I have no idea what they are.

Jeff:

I, I've looked this up before, but a lot of people are, uh, not a lot of people, but people bring this up how it's, it's, Got racist overtones. I think it refers to slavery. I'm gonna profess ignorance on that cuz I don't know. It seems like I've looked up the lyrics before and they're all, I mean, when was this written? It's in 18. 1813. 12. 12. So the lyrics are kind of hard to understand, but I don't remember. Anyway, supposedly the third verse refers to something around slavery, but I have no idea exactly what. Interesting.

Chris:

Well, but we don't sing that. So doesn't that kind of make it OK.

Jeff:

Yeah, I know. Just, yeah, I would be, OK, this would never happen, but I'd be OK with America. The beautiful becoming our national anthem. I think it's a better song. That's a good song. Yeah.

Chris:

Yeah. OK, so number two is The Stars and Stripes Forever. I'm not a huge fan. I mean, it's an o, it's an OK song. I don't think I would put that as number two.

Jeff:

I'm not sure I would either. I mean, I like it. I think it's good, but. Yeah. Two is high. Yeah. All right,

Chris:

so this march written by, here he is again, John Phillips Sousa in NI 1896. Mm-hmm. Is well known as the official national March of the United States of America. Not everybody knows, however the was once called, the disaster March. God. In the early 20th century when theaters and circuses tended to have house bands, it was used as a code signaling, life-threatening emergencies, allowing staff to organize the audience's exit without causing the panic that a straightforward announcement would've done. One example of its use was during the Hartford Circus Fire of 1944. One of the worst fire emergencies in US history. Jesus.

Jeff:

Yeah. So they just strike up stars and stripes forever. Yeah. And that's everybody's clue to get out.

Chris:

Yeah. And that kinda like, uh, playing the song on the deck of the Titanic, I mean Yeah. Like, we're going down, let's play a song. That's weird.

Jeff:

Yeah. So I'm wondering what number one is. Have I heard of this song? Oh, yeah.

Chris:

I I wouldn't have it. It's you only, there's only a single time that you ever hear it. Well, damn. Hail to the

Jeff:

Chief. Oh, OK. Yeah. That's not number one. That shouldn't be number one. No,

Chris:

it's not because it's not something that the general public is going to, it's not a song you sing. It's nothing like that. I mean, yeah, it's uniquely. American, I guess I don't, yeah, I don't know that it has any other, OK. Well, let's just see here. Adapted from an original Scottish Gaelic melody by the 18th century English composer James Sanderson. This is the US President's personal anthem, usually played by the United States Marine Ban and other military ensembles. It originated in 19th C in the 19th century and has mainly been used to accompany the president's appearances at public events, but it was also played at inauguration ceremonies along with former president's state funerals after the coffin is removed from the hearse, I don't think I knew that. Hmm? I didn't either. The lyrics, which are rarely sung. OK, so I didn't even know it had lyrics. Or by the early 20th century American lyricist, Albert gse, G A M S E. So I had no idea that there were lyrics.

Jeff:

No, not either. Interesting. Yeah, I wouldn't put that number one.

Chris:

No it, it ought to be on the list, but I would be surprised that, you know, star-Spangled Banner, America the beautiful, something like that's my country, Tiz of thee. Any of those should be further to the top. That's kind of interesting. Yeah, I

Jeff:

was looking up the lyrics. Hail to the chief, we have chosen for the nation. Hail to the chief, we salute him one and all. Hail to the chief as we pledge cooperation. Well, that went out the fucking window. Yes. In proud fulfillment of a great noble call. Yours is the aim to make this grand country grander. This you will do. That is our strong firm belief. Hail to the one we selected as commander. Hail to the president. Hail to the chief. Wow. I

Chris:

had no idea. All right. OK, so we'll switch gears a little bit over to some of these pop songs and I'm gonna mention some, even if I haven't heard them, just because if they're by a well-known person, then maybe they're known by other people. I just don't know it. So this is a top 25 list and I'm just gonna hit some of them. We're not gonna do all 25, but number 25 on the list is Ragged Old Flag by Johnny Cash. Do you know that? No. Well, the album cover is him standing by a tattered flag waving, so, Hmm. I've never heard of it. It says it was released in 1974. Talks about what the symbol of our flag means and how we should take pride in it. Hmm. Never heard of it. All right. But obviously being Johnny Cash, it seemed. Notable to mention? Yeah. Number 24. This is one that surprises me as a, a patriotic song, but it's Take Me Home Country Roads by John Denver. Hmm. OK. I guess just because it's all about like an American landscape and Yeah. You know, a home I can see that. A home feeling all of that. Yeah. Yeah. Good song. 23 American Oxygen by Rihanna. I don't know very many of Rihanna's songs. No, I don't either, but I definitely don't know that 1 22 Color Me America by Dolly Parton. Don't know it, don't know that one either. All right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna skip through to, to some others. There's, uh, American Heart by Faith Hill is number 20. In America by John Legend is 19. Now, here's a song I really like. I wouldn't call it patriotic by any means, but you get it from the title's party in the USA by Miley Cyrus.

Jeff:

I can't believe that's on the list.

Chris:

I know I like Miley Cyrus, though. I think she's got, she's got some really good vocals. I think she, you know, people kinda look at her as a, I don't know, sometimes when you know someone as a younger person, It's hard to take them seriously as an older person. I

Jeff:

was gonna say. Yeah. You don't take'em seriously.

Chris:

Yeah. Yeah. And especially as her alter ego, you know, as Hannah Montana, having this kid show, but really as an adult voice, she can, she can belt some out. So here's one called Fell number 17, Philadelphia Freedom. By Elton John. By Elton John. Yeah. See, I don't know that one. OK.

Jeff:

I'm sure you've heard it. That's pretty famous.

Chris:

Well, maybe. So that's kinda like, yeah, a couple of those others I didn't know the names of, but I knew the song. Yeah. So number 13, God Bless America by Celine Dion. So that's one of our traditional patriotic songs, but apparently that's a popular rendition of it. Yeah, I didn't know she recorded it. Back. Number 11 is back in the USA by Chuck Berry

Jeff:

back in the usa. Back in the U usa. I'm not sure. I thought you were, were gonna say back in the U S S R by the Beatles. Why is that on the list? No, I don't know that one. I don't either. Hmm. OK.

Chris:

OK. This one, I saw this on a couple of different lists. This is lower on this one. As God Bless the USA by Lee Greenwood, that one has to be on the list.

Jeff:

That is fingernails on a chalkboard for me. I cannot stand that song. Yeah. Why? Just, I don't know. Maybe I heard it so much as a kid. It's from the eighties, right? I don't know. I don't do well with just dripping patriotism, hugging the flag, all that shit. I just don't do well with that. And that song is just, that's all part of it.

Chris:

Yeah, that's just me. OK. You know what? You're right. I did hear that a lot during the Gulf War. And I forgot about that. It, so I don't, I don't know exactly when that came out, but I do remember hearing it a lot during the Gulf War. This was saying that it was most well known after the September 11th attacks, which I'm sure it was put out a lot then, but I associate it more with the, the first Gulf War.

Jeff:

Hmm. I don't, does it say what year it's from? Doesn't. I always associated it with Rid written during the Cold War, and so we are Free, Soviets aren't all that kind of stuff.

Chris:

OK. It was released in 1984.

Jeff:

Oh, OK. So yeah. Cold War. And I've been at events where he gets to the part where, and I proudly stand up that, that song. Mm-hmm. And people stand up. People stand up. It's just so. Cringy. It's like, oh God, this just a little too much for you. Makes my skin crawl. OK. Those

Chris:

are people that still think it's an American dream.

Jeff:

Yeah. Oh yes, definitely. Yeah.

Chris:

All number eight. This land is your land by Woody Guthrie.

Jeff:

Yeah. That's a classic. Yeah.

Chris:

Yep. Um, seven American Soldier by Toby Keith. I'm sure I've heard that, but I can't, I can't place it now. Uh, number six, God bless America by Irving Berlin. Um, five is, this is my country by Frankie Lane. I don't know that, I don't even know who

Jeff:

that is.

Chris:

Frankie Lane? I don't either. OK. And I gotta just take huge exception with number four because I can't stand him. Born in the USA by Bruce Springs

Jeff:

to, oh yeah. All right.

Chris:

Now you want to talk about nails on a chalkboard. Holy

Jeff:

shit. Yeah. I like very few of his songs. That one I can just kind of tolerate, but I'm not gonna seek it out and listen to it. But people think it's a patriotic song. It's not. If you look at the lyrics, It's about a guy who has to go fight in Vietnam cuz he gets in trouble with the law or something here. And it's about the overall treatment of people when they get back from war. Yeah. And how badly they're treated and how it is a dead end job when you get back. And it is just, it's not patriotic at all. But people just hear that that refrain over and over born in the U S A and it's kind of upbeat. So you think it's like, Hey, rah, rah, go America. And it's not at all.

Chris:

Yeah. Well that's kind of funny because I've never listened to the lyrics like that. Whenever that song comes on with about maybe the second or third note, I'm out.

Jeff:

Right?

Chris:

Yeah. That, that's one of the guys where it sounds like somebody's standing on his throat while he is trying to sing and it just doesn't go over well. All right. Number three is America The Beautiful by John Denver. John Denver Recorded America

Jeff:

the beautiful. Yeah, I didn't know that. Guarantee you it's not as good as West Virginia Country Roads, whatever that song's called,

Chris:

it can't be because if we don't know it, that song, I know exactly. We know very well. Yeah. OK. Now this is kind of funny. Number two American Flag on the Moon by Brad Paisley. Well, we don't even have proof that there is a flack on. We can't see it. And what'd you say? There's like, how many of them are there? And we can't see any of them.

Jeff:

There are like seven I think. Yeah. Plus a Chinese flag, but whatever. Yeah. And there's a Chinese flag and they're probably all white cuz they're bleached out by the sun cuz there's no right atmosphere. So,

Chris:

but say an American flag on the moon, does that mean the Chinese could sing about a Chinese flag on the moon? Sure.

Jeff:

Maybe they have and that's a patriotic

Chris:

song for them. Yeah. They probably think they own the moon. Wouldn't that be funny? Yeah, that

Jeff:

would Maybe we'll get into a war over who owns it. Yeah. It wouldn't

Chris:

surprise me at some point.

Jeff:

So we're down to number one. Holy

Chris:

hell. Number one. I hate this song too. Sitting on the Dock of the Bay by Otis Redding.

Jeff:

Oh, that's a great song. I love that song. Oh, but why is it number one on this list? I don't

Chris:

know. I don't know, is that's just something Americans do is sit out at a bay. I mean, I don't know if I've ever been to a Bay. I've been to Lakes, I've been to the ocean. I

Jeff:

mean, I've been to Bays, but I've never sat at one. That's weird. No, I don't think it should be on the list. I don't consider that a patriotic song. I don't either. Whatever. Yeah, I like

Chris:

it. Well, that's what we got. That got us to number one.

Jeff:

OK, so I have a, another type of list. I came across this, I wouldn't say that this particularly paints Americans in a, a very good light, and I would call all of these alarming. I got this from Yale University, but they linked to. The website that has this stuff, and it is patch.com. And they have different categories for things that, uh, these are all based on surveys. They have different categories for, you know, what percentage of Americans think this, what percentage of Americans don't believe this or whatever. And the first one I'll mention is the Holocaust. People's lack of knowledge regarding the Holocaust. First of all, you have some Americans who don't even think that it happened. Right. And I looked for a percentage of that and I couldn't find it. But a recent poll commissioned by the conference on Jewish material claims against Germany. That's the, the group that did the poll found big gaps in Americans historical knowledge about the Holocaust. Two thirds of millennials and four in 10 Americans overall don't know what Auschwitz was. Wow. Uh, 49%. Of millennials were unable to name a single concentration camp or ghetto compared to 45% of adults, and just over half thought Adolf Hitler came to power in a coup rather than in Germany's Democratic election. Nearly a third far underestimate the number of Jews killed, which was about 6 million. I thought about this in the context of what you talked about in the previous episode, going to the Holocaust Museum, and then that guy who visited your junior high talking about it could happen again. Well, this is one of the ways it starts with people not knowing their history. That's scary. Exactly

Chris:

right. Yeah. If you don't know what happened, then you don't recognize when it's happening

Jeff:

again. That's right. Yeah. That's scary. OK. Uh, then they have some government stats here. 37% of Americans could name a single right in the Bill of Rights. 37% had no clue. Only 26% could name all three branches of government. 26%, 26%. So a quarter of Americans can name all three branches of government. 33% couldn't even name one goddamn branch of the government. That's horrible. They couldn't even come up with it. It's terrible. Terrible. And the person, the lady who did this poll, She called the results worrisome. I think that's an understatement. Yeah. But she said, protecting the rights guaranteed by the Constitution presupposes that we know what they are. I tell my students that when we're going through the rights and the Bill of Rights, I'm like, look, these are your rights, but if you don't know what they are and how to assert'em, then you might as well not even have'em at all. They make it. Doesn't make any sense. Yeah, exactly. OK. Here's some stats on, uh, Speaking of the Moon Earths and all that. 25 God Almighty, 25% of Americans think the sun revolves around the earth. Oh my gosh, 25%, 10% think the earth is flat. 10%.

Chris:

That just baffles me and I it does me too. I can't remember if we talked about this before, maybe a long time ago on one of our episodes is the, uh, it's really a, like a documentary on Netflix. I don't know if it's still on there. It's called Behind the Curve, and it is about these freaks. That profess that it's a flat earth and they start doing scientific experiments and trying to explain the hows and whys and the ridiculousness of the fact that it could be a globe and so on. And they are constantly faced with these experiments that are essentially pro, well, they are proving them wrong. Mm-hmm. But they have all kinds of explanations for why they weren't. Proven wrong, and it's just unbelievable. I can't believe that anybody is holding onto that and they want to think that it's some kind of conspiracy that the 90% are saying that it's round. Like, what is that conspiracy? They say like they're just trying to see what you'll believe. You know, if we tell them that it's round, when obviously it's flat. Then look at the idiots. It's like,

Jeff:

I think we ought to gather up all the flat earthers and just shoot'em into space. Yeah, just shoot'em into space so they can see for themselves. Like there it is, idiots. Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah, I had a flat earth one time and a class and uh, he was, I mean, we were explaining stuff to him and he just kept coming back with. Shit. You know, really conspiracy people and people like that, they just always, they always have something to fall back on. They say, well, what about this? What about this? What about this? You can't argue with those people. And I say, I've had a flat earth, but 10% of Americans think the earth is flat. So just by those numbers, I've had more than one flat earth are in my courses through the years. Well, yeah, they just weren't brave enough to speak up.

Chris:

Right. We just need to talk about what's 10%? We're talking about 330 or so million Americans. Yeah. So that's a good 30 to 35 million people. Good. Just, just to put that in some numbers, 30 to 35 million people just in the us. Wow. Unbelievable.

Jeff:

Uh, 12% think we never landed on the moon. 12%. So a bigger percentage. Yeah. And how do, I don't under, OK, this is what I was gonna say about the Earth being flat. Obviously they, they couldn't conduct these surveys way back when, but I guarantee you more people now think the earth is flat than, say, 200 years ago. 200 years ago. You had people just barely hanging on, maybe living till they're 50 years old, they can't read, A lot of them can't write, but they listened to people who could, who were educated and they believed what they said. So you're gonna find some farm, middle of nowhere America, but he could have told you the earth is round because really smart people said that it was. Yep. And here we are in 2023. Humans have access to more information than they've ever had in history. And you have idiots like this, right? I just don't get it it. And they don't

Chris:

believe that. They don't believe the information they have access to and they are believing other information. That's not information, it's just shit. Exactly. Yep.

Jeff:

34% of Americans do not think evolution is real, so they think humans have not evolved at all. Does that percentage surprise you? Probably not so much. That was the same. I was like, yeah, I figured. I figured it'd be about a third. Yeah. Yeah. 25% of Americans think climate change is not real. Uh, now the article here, and I'll link to it in the episode notes, they did point out there's a bright spot here because that percentage of Americans who think climate change is not real is going down from what it was say like. Even 10 years ago, so that's a good thing. Yeah. Maybe when you keep getting pelted by violent storms and whatever else, maybe that'll cause you to rethink it. Politics here, 51% of Republicans and 14% of Democrats think Obama was born in Kenya, so

Chris:

Wow. Really

Jeff:

still. OK. The 51% of America of Republicans, that does not surprise me. I actually thought it might be a little higher, the 14% of Democrats, that surprises me more.

Chris:

That is surprising. Yeah, for sure. Although I'm surprised, I don't know. The 51% might not have surprised me back then, but I think it surprises me now. They're still holding onto it.

Jeff:

Yeah. Now that survey, uh, did it say when it's from, it was from late 2017. So, I mean, maybe some views would've changed, but Yeah, probably not a lot. He's already finished

Chris:

his presidency by then.

Jeff:

Yeah, exactly. Uh, so this was done in 2006 in the midst of the Iraq war. Six in 10 young adults couldn't find Iraq on a map. That of Surpris of the Middle East. So they gave them a map of the Middle East, like not the whole world. It's like here, it's somewhere here in this region. And they couldn't, couldn't do it. 60% couldn't. And then, uh, 75% of those surveyed could not identify Orran or Israel on the map. Mm. And then this one is alarming. Uh, the article says they're not much better at US geography only about half. Of Americans surveyed could find New York State on a map. Oh my half half of Americans, wow. Wow. I don't even know what to say.

Chris:

I know a lot of people that have trouble with, with American geography, and I'll tell you what, it's not getting any better either because kids that are coming through school right now can't find that

Jeff:

stuff. Because they don't learn it like we did in the fifth grade. And it was probably this way with you. We had to learn all the states, you had to learn all the capitals of the states. Mm-hmm. And you learn where all those are. And so what they look like, where they are. Yeah, exactly. Yes. You learn all that stuff. And I, neither one of my kids have had to learn that like we did. Yeah. That lack of geography knowledge reminds me of a Mark Twain quote. Mark Twain had a lot of great quotes, but pertinent to this, he, uh, said or wrote, travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth your whole life. I love that. That's great.

Chris:

Yeah. Yeah. I've never heard that.

Jeff:

Yeah. Yeah. Get out and see the world, learn about other people, other cultures, countries,

Chris:

you'll be better off for it. Well, and you know what, now all of that information is readily available too, even if you can't go those places. True.

Jeff:

Absolutely.

Chris:

Get on the internet, turn on the tv. That stuff is out there. Like you can at least broaden your horizons, expand your knowledge and awareness and all of that, even if you don't live it. Good point.

Jeff:

All right. If you like this kind of stuff, then this is your type of podcast. We are your type of people and you should absolutely, without a doubt, 100% follow us on whatever platform you listen to podcasts on, because that way you're gonna get new episodes delivered to you automatically every Tuesday when they drop. And while you are there, go ahead and rate us. We would be really, really happy if you'd give us five stars. And while you're there, go ahead and type something. It doesn't matter what you type, but if you type something, it makes it easier when people are searching for the show. So it makes it easier for them to discover the show. And we have a website you can visit that at is Subpar Talks dot com. You can email us, leave us a voicemail. If you wanna leave suggestions for topics we should cover in future episodes, go ahead and do that. We will always take those into consideration. We are on social media. On Twitter, we are at Subpar Talks On Facebook we are Subpar Talks. If you wanna follow our personal Twitter accounts, you can do that as well On there. I am at

Chris:

independentjeff and I am at Chris Bradford tx.

Jeff:

And we have other social media links on our website. And last, but never, ever least share Subpar Talks on social media. Talk to your friends, family, colleagues about it, whoever you encounter on a daily basis, because the more people we have listening to the show, that makes it easier on us to bring this content to you every single week. Are you feeling more patriotic or less patriotic than when we. Started this episode.

Chris:

I feel very concerned.

Jeff:

I feel concerned. And a little despondent. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris:

Dismayed

Jeff:

too. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good word for it. So anyway, happy July 4th people for what that's worth. Half Happy Independence Day. Go America, I guess. Yeah, sure.

Chris:

God bless us everyone. There

Jeff:

you go. OK, that is an episode wrap and we will be back next week. Until then, so long.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Chris

Host
Head Shot

Jeff

Host