Journey to Multifamily Millions

Avoiding Pitfalls in the Lending Process with Brandon Campbell, Ep 85

• Tim • Season 1 • Episode 85

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Today's guest is Brandon Campbell, Brandon is a top producing loan originator at Lima One Capital. He joined Lima One in 2016 as an entry level inside sales rep & moved quickly up the leaderboard. Over the years, he has consistently been one of the top 5 originators at the company.

In his description of the company's achievements, Brandon reveals that Lima One Capital has completed 1700 closings and now manages between 200 and 300 each year. He states that they currently have a $3 billion forward loan volume and that eight of every ten loans they issue are funded. In addition, he discusses loan origination procedures, underwriting policies, interest rate variations, asset class dynamics, and common misconceptions in the industry.

Brandon exhorts those who are listening to invest in real estate as a possible means of accumulating riches.


Episode Topics

[01:17]  Meet our guest, Brandon Campbell
[01:38] Brandon Campbell's Journey in Real Estate
[03:26] The Customer Base and Loan Size
[04:48] Exploring Multifamily Investments
[13:19] Vetting Sponsors and Understanding Asset Classes
[24:34] The Future of Interest Rates and Final Thoughts
[28:14] What is one red flag every investor should look out for?
[28:44] What is a myth about the real estate business?
[29:32] Connecting to Brandon


Notable Quotes

  • “A loan originator is mainly a salesperson hired by a mortgage company.” - Brandon Campbell
  • “Loans are a crucial element of almost any real estate deal.” -Tim Little
  • “I am customer crazy, I know our products frontwards, backwards, and side to side, and I can help people get across the finish line.” -Brandon Campbell
  • “Our appetite is pretty vast, but I would say the majority of our loan volume comes from well established customers, who have purchased at least dozens of homes.” -Brandon Campbell
  • ​​"Vetting sponsors is about common sense. We say yes when the story aligns—market knowledge, crew presence, and a sensible approach."  -Brandon Campbell 
  • "We're well-capitalized but nimble. The best of both worlds between hard money and traditional banks." -Brandon Campbell 
  • “Banks shy away from tertiary markets due to risks. It's not as sure as primary or secondary markets with population growth." -Tim Little 
  • "The tricky part with short-term rentals is navigating local laws. It's hyper-local, and legality matters. Ensure you're allowed to do it to avoid trouble later."  -Tim Little


👉Connect with  Brandon Campbell

👉 Connect with Tim

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[00:00:00] Brandon Campbell: It's been a wild ride. Lima, when I started and was doing 300 million a year, and this year we're doing 3 billion, and a mix of products. and to date I've done 1700 closings. I average probably about two to 300 a year. And, my success rate, meaning that if you submit an application with me. eight out of 10 times that loan funds. So I am customer crazy. I know our products frontwards, backwards, and side to side, and I can help people get across the finish line.

[00:01:04] Tim Little: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the journey to multifamily millions. I'm your host, founder and CEO of ZANA Investments, Tim Little. And on today's show, we have with us Brandon Campbell. Brandon is a top producing loan originator at Lima One Capital. He joined Lima One in 2016 as an. Entry level inside sales rep and moved quickly up the leaderboard over the years. He has consistently been one of the top five Producing originators at the company loans are a crucial element of almost any real estate deal. And right now that environment is Challenging at best so I am ready to get into it Brandon. Welcome to the show

[00:01:37] Brandon Campbell: thanks so much for having me. 

[00:01:38] Tim Little: Alright, so before we get into loans and rates, please tell us how you got started in real estate and how you got to where you are today.

[00:01:46] Brandon Campbell: Yeah. In 2016, I graduated college and I had 250 bucks in my bank account. And a good close friend of mine, was working at a little company called Lima one as one of their accountants. And he said, we're growing like crazy. We're doing a bunch of cool stuff. He said, do you know anything about the mortgage industry? I said, absolutely not. And they, I would, I like to say that Lima took a chance on me. I was the first person hired for our inside sales team. And then over the years I grew that to about, I think it was 25 at its peak when I was, when I was, over leadership at that department. And then, my boss came to me and gave me a fork in the road. He's Hey, do you want to be. An originator or do you wanna be a boss? And I said, I would absolutely want to be an originator. there's more money there than managing people. but yeah, it's been a wild ride. Lima, when I started and was doing 300 million a year, and this year we're doing 3 billion, and a mix of products. and to date I've done 1700 closings. I average probably about two to 300 a year. And, my success rate, meaning that if you submit an application with me. eight out of 10 times that loan funds. So I am customer crazy. I know our products frontwards, backwards, and side to side, and I can help people get across the finish line. So if you want to close a deal, not, it should be your first call.

[00:02:54] Tim Little: Awesome. All right. So just to, kind of level set, tell us what an alone, a loan originator is and what they do and for who.

[00:03:02] Brandon Campbell: yeah. So a loan originator is mainly a salesperson hired by a mortgage company. who sells their products and their services. And there's licensing involved for those that are unfamiliar. And the specific, I guess what, federal guideline is, have to work for a certain originator. So I am a Lima One sales rep. I sell Lima One products. And I've been, I've been successful over the years and help cultivate relationships and rebuild America's neighborhoods.

[00:03:26] Tim Little: Awesome, So give me a profile of what your customer base looks like. Are these individuals buying their first starter home? Are these primarily investors? What does that look like?

[00:03:39] Brandon Campbell: So our customer base is actually pretty vast, so we can work with first time investors, first time flippers. First time, landlords, but,we do that, but as well as on the opposite end of the spectrum, we have customers that have an office of 30 people and have a CFO and have accountants and have people, sourcing deals for them. Our appetite is pretty vast, but I would say the majority of our loan volume comes from well established customers, who have purchased, at least, dozens of homes, I would say. we won't turn somebody down just because it's their first deal. We have the appetite to help them get started in real estate.

[00:04:14] Tim Little: Sure. And what does the average loan size look like for you guys and what's that range?

[00:04:19] Brandon Campbell: Yeah, so I would say globally across like all products, everything that we do, our average loan size is probably around 350. we, we're first and foremost primarily a single family lender. So the majority of my business, probably 60 to 70 percent, is short term fix and flip loans, ground up new construction of single family homes. And we're, I'm calling you from Greenville, South Carolina, and we have a heavy presence here in the Southeast. So the majority of our loans are probably in the Carolinas, Georgia, Florida. so that leads credence to the 350, 000,roundabout loan amount.

[00:04:48] Tim Little: Okay. And this show is multifamily focused. Talk to us about that subset of customers that you have that are doing either, small multifamily. two to four units or commercial multifamily, five and up.

[00:05:00] Brandon Campbell: Yeah. Again, the bulk of our business is that single family category, which is anything one to four units. However, we do not shy away from apartment complexes, the majority of our business is short term bridge loans, either value add loans or, or, maybe like these, quasi perm bridge loans, which we can get a little bit further. But,the customer there, I'll, and, logically speaking, as we've been a single family lender, we've helped people graduate to the next step. So there are many instances where people have come to us and say, Hey, I've, I bought 50 homes with you and I want to buy a 20 unit. Can Lima help me do that? And the answer is absolutely yes. So we've seen a logical progression of people just graduating to other asset types and larger projects, over the years as they worked with us. but,it's not to say that's all, we work with well established multifamily investors. We've had people come to us that have bought storage facilities and other commercial buildings and they want to buy a 150 unit and a tertiary market in Mississippi. And of course. we're game for it, if there's a good sponsor with a great deal, we're going to find some way or another to plug them in and plug them in with us.

[00:06:02] Tim Little: Okay. Let's talk a little bit about short term bridge loans because that's something that a lot of people were doing, the past couple of years. But now it has become unsavory. I guess it is a word that I would use based on some of the things that are happening in the market. So give me your case for what you think about short term bridge loans and where they still do make sense.

[00:06:27] Brandon Campbell: Yeah,that's actually a really good question. Last year, I would say the majority of projects that I reviewed that I underwrote and that I submitted to our underwriting team, not just me as, the other, what I would consider our other commercial real estate loan officers. is, we get a lot of bridge to bridge requests. So there's a lot of instances where folks were in the middle of a project and they bought it in 21 and 22 and, or even 2020. And of course, like we, we knew the headlines, which were, labor shortages and crazy material issues. And what we've been able to do as a firm for those projects that did make sense as we came in and we. we're able to, give them rehab, extend the project life and let them still remain successful and have successful exits. So by, the unsavory word that you used, but that was, With the banking crisis that happened last year we found that there was a lot less players in the field You know a lot of people didn't want to do it and then you know, just a commercial real estate as a whole You know, I guess all the bad headlines from office got looped on to multifamily. It's not all commercial real estate. That's bad so There are some projects that absolutely did struggle, sponsors did not manage and did not steward their funds well or steward the project well, and there were some others that legitimately ran into some issues. And those sponsors that we felt as if had legitimate reasoning as to why their project stalled, we wanted to continue and help them. What was also interesting is last year was a great opportunity for us as a firm, just because again, we had. This banking crisis caused a lot of ripple effects with the regional and local banks. they just wanted to clutch their pearls and not really want to lend anymore. and then also, another thing worth mentioning too, is we are a fixed rate lender and with the inflationary, crazy interest rate, environment, a lot of folks did not want to have a floater. they would want something, tried and true at a fixed rate. So we had this perfect storm last year when we had a lot of great projects that were stalled, great sponsors, and we were able to, take the ball at the rim, and, help them run with it matter of fact, last year was one of our larger years in multifamily. a lot of these were these bridge to bridge refinances, but, it's not to say that we only focused on these failed projects. Of course, the bridge financing has a very legitimate purpose here and in 2024, it absolutely has a legitimate purpose. a lot of what I'm seeing, the use case of these bridge loans now is, and, what I'm speaking of in particular is not a value add, but like a stabilized bridge is what we call it. So it's just a short term loan for two or three years. interest rates very well may drop, in the immediate to mid future. So these bridge loans are the perfect solution right now for folks that are trying to bridge the gap between their current value add loan and the perm loan they'll ultimately get with Fannie, Freddie or HUD. So we've felt, we felt a niche in the market and we filled that niche with offering these two or three year bridge loans for these either projects that are, the only thing they need to do is get a occupancy up or, they need to see the season, the occupancy, or, some folks are waiting on, CEOs, but they have the TCOs, but they can't quite get the permanent financing yet. So we've filled that need there. And that's, that's where we've stuck out in the market to get fixed rate and then two or three year bridge terms, these quasi perm terms. Are really attractive to a lot of multifamily operators nowadays just because we can give them what they need now, the cash out or the extra time that they need and then they can actually go get the loan that they love after the rates. the board will come down in the next year or two.

[00:09:45] Tim Little: Yeah. And I think,maybe I. I don't want to say misspoke, but it should have been specified, when I say bridge loan and a lot of people hear bridge loan, they variable rate, right? Because so many of them were variable rate. And, so then when rates started to go up. a lot of people got in a bad place, but what you're saying is that most, or if not all of those bridge loans that you did were fixed rate. Is that right?

[00:10:10] Brandon Campbell: 100 percent of them are, so we are a fixed rate lender. So that's what made us, yeah, the most, probably one of the more attractive options in the past 12 months. And that's,that's what separates our product is that, and also another thing as well, just to talk about misconceptions and we're in between two categories, I would say, so like they're over to the extreme side is hard money and over to the extreme side is bank financing and we're in between the two. And so I want to cut that hair or split that hair there, because, with hard money, it's not a well capitalized office. And,of course, we all know the connotations of hard money, which is, knock three times to get a bag of money. It's more common on the single family side. And then, with bank financing, there's, the, the misconception or the, actually the very true conception of, Hey, I have to, I've spent all this paperwork and it's just crazy and it takes forever. And there's five committees and I have to talk with the VP and I have to open a deposit box or something crazy. We're in between the two. yeah. I've heard stories of people flying into cities that they want to buy in and meet with a VP and talk about opening an account with them. It's very real. people have to do that stuff. we're in between the two. We are a well capitalized lender. we're owned by a publicly traded company, MFA Financial, and they've been instrumental in helping grow our business. we're well capitalized, but we also have the willingness to go around the edges with, with certain projects, some deals that have a little hair on them. Now that's not an outright, saying that, yes, we love hairy deals. I love 100 percent of hairy deals. No, I'm not saying that. But yeah, we will look at deals with hair on them. and then, we're a little bit more nimble than a bank, but,we still have underwriting guidelines. So we're the best of both worlds, the point that I want to make. So we're,we're a lender that meets the need that banks fell out with and hard money lenders that they just couldn't keep up with, in, in the here and now. So fixed rate lending and then a balance sheet lender, in this market is extremely valuable, especially to a lot of multi family operators.

[00:11:55] Tim Little: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And it surprised me when, and maybe it was just an example you were using, talking about lending to, a tertiary market in whatever state, like a lot of banks will not loan in tertiary markets just because of the, The risk involved, right? it's just not as much of a sure thing as the tried and true primary and secondary markets where, you're going to have population growth, et cetera. 

[00:12:16] Brandon Campbell: yeah, absolutely. we've looked at, we don't necessarily have a population requirement, but it just has to make sense. So is there a jobcentre there? Is there a job? Is there a, not a decline in population, but at least a, like a steady population growth also, is it the asset class that makes sense or like the, the grade, like a C plus property in a tertiary market makes a whole lot of sense than a class A property. So it's just, we look for those kinds of things, we're in the business of lending money. And unlike a bank, that's our primary business and that's what we want to do. So we're going to find a way to get a deal done. So I'd rather say yes, then no open, open a safety deposit box, please.

[00:12:52] Tim Little: Yeah. And so there's one more thing that you said that I wanted to hit on. And that's the vetting of sponsors, right? If the sponsor is good, that's how you as a lender determine whether or not, Hey, this person is worthy of entrusting with my money and Passive investors, in a sense, need to do the same exact thing, right? They need to vet these sponsors because they're handing over a big chunk of money. It may not be as big a chunk as yours, but it's a big chunk for them. So talk to me from the lender's perspective. What does the vetting of sponsors look like?

[00:13:22] Brandon Campbell: So a lot of this is just, classic common sense. So this guy wants to buy a 100 unit building. Has he done anything similar to that before? and the answer is no then it's an easy no and then also going back to the previous example I gave, this guy, there's a there The folks that I was talking about like they've done, a myriad of single families with us We've seen their construction process and they want to buy a 20 unit in a market where they already own 50 units in Absolutely. That's easy. Yes. The issues that I run into primarily are You know, I want to buy a huge unit count out of state. I don't have any presence there. I don't have any crew there. I would figure it out, things like that, you're not within a reasonable distance of the property to manage it. I'm okay going across state lines, as long as it's within a reasonable driving distance, if you can be there within. a few hours, and then you own some other properties and yeah, it's just the story has to make sense is really it. and that also goes down to net worth. How much money does this guy have? How much liquidity does he have? and then how much, how much LP money is he raising versus how much money is he actually putting in? Those are all the common sense questions that we asked when we've had sponsors. But, generally speaking, it's, as long as, and also this is just a word to the wise, when you're pitching a deal to a lender, especially somebody like a Lima one, you just gotta make sure that your story makes sense, over the objections ahead of time. So where, the deficiencies are like, I don't know this market, my net worth is this, my liquidity is this, what are you going to do to overcome it? Are you adding a partner? Do you have a partner that has some presence in the area? Those are, those are just the basic things that we look for. Yeah. Just, Common sense.

[00:14:50] Tim Little: Yeah, no. And all of that does make sense. So just to, for the listeners to roll up some of the things that you talked about, one track record, right? That's one of the most important aspects. two boots on the ground. are they one of their partners in the area where the property is going to be located so that they can have eyes on, liquidity, right? Yeah. And then net worth. Can you talk about those last two for me and just give me a better idea of what your requirements are as a lender for both those things, liquidity and net worth?

[00:15:18] Brandon Campbell: Yeah, so generally speaking,liquidity wise, I would want to see at least 5 percent of the loan amount, especially if it's a larger apartment complex. And then, for smaller projects,single families, generally speaking, I want to see the cash from the borrower at closing plus a few reserves for monthly payments. So we're not, it's not crazy high liquidity requirements, at the same time,it has to make sense. So if the equity requirements are a million bucks and you got two 50,where's the other 750 coming from, we want to see it ahead of time. We want to, do a KYC, and know where that money's coming from ultimately. Now net worth, generally speaking, we want to see is the net worth is equal, or greater than the loan amount that's in front of us. Now we're. We're nimble in the fact that a lot of times we have blinders, like we're just looking at the deal that's in front of us. whereas more common with bank financing, there's a global look of everything that you have out, generally speaking, Lima's just looking at what we have in front of us. Now, of course, common sense, if you want to borrow 50 million from us, we want to see how. How your, the rest of your financial life is looking like. But, generally speaking, we're just looking at the liquidity and we're looking at the net worth compared to the deal that's in front of us. Just for the sake of ease. 

[00:16:55] Tim Little: Yeah, and is it pretty common for a sponsor to just bring in a KP that has that? Net worth and or liquidity so that they can make that deal happen.

[00:17:05] Brandon Campbell: Yeah, that's a part of it. if you're lacking in one category or another and you always bring somebody else that's willing to sign a personal guarantee, then yeah, we can make anything work almost.

[00:17:15] Tim Little: Okay. And I don't know how much you guys look at the sponsorship team and do you have any concerns as to size, right? Is,either too small or too big, right? For whatever the asset sides, does any of that concern you guys?

[00:17:29] Brandon Campbell: Yeah, that's a good question. So right as of this recording, we cap out at 10 million. So I don't want to do the crazy, class a, Miami condos, we're middle market. So that's really where we spar. and also the lens too, this is important to mention. So Lima started as a single family lender, and we started in Atlanta, we've, we're a single family lender first, and then we do multi family second. It's probably the best way to describe it. we do it well by, by all means, but we have a single family lens on a lot of the things that we do. And, I view that as an advantage just because we're dealmakers is really what it comes down to. And, we can be a little bit more nimble and, have a little bit more, we're used to some certain things on the single family side that kind of trickle over to multifamily,maybe a little bit heavier rehab budget, lower vacancy than, than what you would see with some bank lenders. That's where we fit.

[00:18:15] Tim Little: Yeah. And I think that's important to clarify, right? because there's some folks out there doing some really huge deals. but there's also folks, who were like me, starting out with say a duplex and maybe a triplex, but maybe they're ready to go up to that. Even that six plex or that 10 plex you can still help them with everything within that range. Again, assuming we're not in some, Ludicrously expensive market, we're talking normal here because you're saying 10 million in under is where you guys play.

[00:18:42] Brandon Campbell: yeah, that's generally it, but yeah, I can help people with logical progression. I want to buy a duplex, and then I want to buy a triplex, and then I want to buy a sixplex. And then I want to buy 20 units. Yeah, no, we have the financing for it. Now, of course I'm not, it's not, it's not without underwriting guidelines and things, of course, but, yes, absolutely.

[00:18:59] Tim Little: It's, those are all things that we can look at. ask you about anyways. Like the various asset classes that you guys work with. Do you work with anything outside of, what, housing? Do you do any, office or even mobile home parks? Or, self storage? Any of those other, alternative assets, I guess I'll call them.

[00:19:20] Brandon Campbell: yeah, that's a good question. we are, we're a residential lender is probably the best way to describe it. So like me, single families, multifamilies, the most that I get crazy about is with mixed use. generally speaking, I want it to be majority residential and then they can have a storefront on the bottom, but, we're primarily residents, 

[00:19:35] Tim Little: Alright, what about short-term rentals? Is that something you're seeing a lot of and is that something that you guys are you know were willing to lend on or I didn't know if there's a higher risk, for you guys involved in that. Just curious about that piece because I know a lot of folks listening, might already have short term rentals as well. So

[00:19:52] Brandon Campbell: Yeah, we love short terminals. We do them. I offer permanent financing for one to four unit short term rental properties. Now, basically how we vet it is. For a, and what I would say was a, what in this case, like to be a, for me to land on a short term rental, I would want to see a track record with one previously, just one, if you have a 12 month history with a short term rental, then, you can get in the club, so to speak, how it works is we'll. we'll look at the lesser between the actual rent or the air DNA income, whatever's lower and, we will cut it a little bit around the edges, if it's a, not. especially if it's a purchase. Generally speaking, AirDNA is the data that we're going off of haircutting it a little bit. And then if, as long as it pencils to a 1. 3 DSCR, then you got yourself a permanent loan. how would, and I can say where we're best at with short term rentals and where I found this, and just, just experimenting with it, typically and this is not an exact science, but if it's under a million and a half. Generally speaking, I can give it LTV that people like, which is, up to 75%. But, short term rentals, I've,they're not like the number one thing that we do, but people still do them and they're successful at them. and again, it goes back to good sponsorship. So we want to make sure that these people have done it before they have a team set up and they live within a certain distance of the property or have a property manager. But, yeah, we're open for business with short term rentals. we, I would say a lot of our business is the burr method with single families, by rehab, I forget the RS now, but, there's a guy called me one time. He's I want to do a burr and B like, yes, we do burrs and B's, funny little moniker, but, yeah, absolutely. I'd be willing to help out, folks with short term rentals.

[00:21:23] Tim Little: yeah, and admittedly, short term rentals, it's not something that I've tried. I almost bought one here in ST Petersburg because I was like, Hey, I'm in Florida, right? I'm in Tampa, a great location for people going on vacation, stuff like that. The thing that's tricky sometimes with short term rentals is the laws, associated because it's not even state laws. It goes down to County local, yeah, local level. and right. it's a hyper local level. And so you have to be sure that you're even legally allowed to do it because otherwise you could just get yourself in trouble, if you have to backtrack after that. And so I wound up not going that route, but I know plenty of people. Who specifically in Tampa have been very successful doing higher end short term rentals where they make it like super Instagram worthy on the inside. I think the other challenge with short term rentals from my perspective is, similar to why I was asking you, is how to underwrite them just because of the elasticity and how much they could charge based, one, one month. To the next, but maybe there's a way to average it out, looking at, models because there's comps right that can show you over time how much they make in a week, month, year, and then I assume that gets averaged out so that you could get a guess as to what the income would be.

[00:22:40] Brandon Campbell: Yeah. Yeah. And then, another thing worth mentioning too is I, I'm plugged in with an investor. He's in the Midwest. he has podcasts as well. Shout out Kirby Atwell. he,his, his podcast and his masterclass is about, How to think about the worst case scenario and, about the short term rentals. So what he buys is primarily in the Midwest. So lower property values in places that have both a mix of touristy areas and also have a good, strong rental base. around the lakes, in, in Michigan, places like Michigan city, Indiana, there's nothing special about Michigan city, Indiana. I've done a bunch of short term rentals there because there's a mix of both normal rentals, and then also. looking at markets where you could pivot and do either, or, and especially with the multiple units too, like you could Airbnb the bottom two and then you can have normal tenants on the top. just thinking about the worst case scenario, because you're exactly right. there's a lot of,down to the local level. I've looked at short term rental deals in, I forget the exact cities in Florida, it's okay, you can have a short term rental tenant, but you can only, but it can only be like a month at a time or like you can only have one tenant a month. And so that's just, people aren't renting these units for a month at a time. It's a weekend, it's a week. So it just kills that market. But some places in the Midwest are a little bit easier to do. I've even done short term rentals. I've done a log cabin short term rental in West Virginia, of all places, property value is like 200 grand and the guy was getting 5, 000 a month on air DNA, what we underwrote to. it's just specific to the area. But, there's other places. So like a more local to me, Charleston, South Carolina, they have overlays. So like the County has come up with a grid where you, You can buy a short term rental, you can operate a short term rental, have a customer that does that and is successful. And of course, the second that, you figure out that your property is in one of these short term rental overlays, then, the property value just shoots to the roof. there's a lot of tricks to the trade here. But primarily, if you can look and vet a property that can pivot and do either or, then I think that you're, you'll be more successful in the long run.

[00:24:32] Tim Little: Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense. All right. I would be remiss if I didn't ask about rates before we move on. So talk to me about where rates are right now and where you think they're going in the future. Acknowledging that your crystal ball isn't any clearer than mine.

[00:24:48] Brandon Campbell: Yeah, that's exactly right. So I do not have a crystal ball, but I do anticipate another thing worth mentioning too. So in, before I answer your question, which I will, the, another misconception that I run into is okay, the fed dropped the rates by 25 basis points. So therefore all rates drop by 25 basis points. It may be true of residential mortgages, but it's not true of the business purpose space. like, how our coupons are determined is through, what our weighted average coupon needs to be when we sell the mortgages. it has to be at X, Y, and Z in order to sell the note for a profit. We want to make sure that everything that we do, matches out and so we can be profitable when we actually sell the note. Generally speaking nowadays,for a fix and flip for a top tier guy, I can probably get in the eights and then for a first timer, I'm like 12 to 13 percent and then somewhere in the middle, we're somewhere in the middle. So I've done nine, 10, 11 percent for people with, probably five to 10 flips, but the top tier guy I would consider is done 24 deals in two years. I can get you down, maybe high eights, low nines. And then maybe a point, maybe less, depending on the deal now, with rental financing, we actually just lowered rates, which is exciting. we, we're more firmly in the sevens, like higher sevens, maybe low eights, higher LTVs. And then, with multifamily again, we're bridge lending. So it's like a tip. I think the lowest I've seen is like 10 and a half to 11. Ish, depending on L-T-V-L-T-C and all that good stuff. But,that's a global view of where it sits as of the recording of this. But, now, the interesting question is I think rates are gonna go down. I said to a colleague yesterday, I just wish something would break. I want, like either housing prices to fall 40%, or I want mortgage applications to go to zero. if something breaks. Then, the Fed would have to act really quickly and then we'll probably see some, rate, decrease, but, we might be holding not steady, but we might see some, small decreases. I hope the Fed decreases rates this year. I think they came out last week and said that they were going to hold steady. This, the most recent meeting, but, yeah, I would imagine that we're going to see some rate drops, but I don't think that we're going to have 3 percent resi mortgages again, for a while, if ever again, but,we'll see some, we'll see some, tapering off, I would imagine in the next 12 to 18 months, money will get cheaper one way or another, something has to break, hopefully, and then, we can get there quicker, but that's my hot take, not necessarily Lima one's point of view.

[00:26:53] Tim Little: Yeah, and it's I'm with you. I think it's gonna happen. I don't think it's gonna happen right away, and it's not gonna be dramatic, right? it's certainly not going to drop nearly as fast as it rose. and everyone just needs to accept that and not be delusional into thinking that it's going to drop down to where it was because that simply is not going to happen. Certainly not anytime soon. but any relief is relief, right? But, at least, on the commercial multifamily side, it's going to take a lot for it to even, get down to, below like the rate caps that, people, a lot of people have in place. Everyone's like begging for it to go down, but I'm like, you understand, like we're well above the rate caps right now.

[00:27:32] Brandon Campbell: So it would still take a lot just to get below, The need for another rate cap. but I think everyone's just looking for any good news on that front So it almost doesn't matter. I don't want to be that guy who's like just souring the mood for everyone. But Yeah. So I would say that like us, we did lower rates two weeks ago. there is some downward pressure now, how far down that's going to go in the next three months, I would love to know. of course they're not going to tell me the sales guy. Cause I'd say Hey, just wait two weeks and then I'll give you a 50 basis points off,  but,things are moving down. I would imagine.

[00:28:01] Tim Little: Yeah. All right. let's go ahead and move it into the turbo round

[00:28:05] Brandon Campbell: All right.

[00:28:05] Tim Little: questions that I ask every guest on the show and I just ask for a Relatively quick honest answer. Are you ready?

[00:28:11] Brandon Campbell: No, all right, let's go. 

[00:28:13] Tim Little: Alright, first one, what is one red flag every investor should look out for? 

[00:28:17] Brandon Campbell: but when you call a lender and they don't, they either don't fully explain the process or they don't, tell you what something is or what's your rate? Okay,it depends. What's your rate? like I did previously. I typically have ranges because there's ranges. There's things that change. But, not answering a question directly, I think is a huge red flag.

[00:28:37] Tim Little: Yeah, no, I'm with you. Transparency, right? And if isn't answering your question, that's a lack of transparency. Okay, next one. What is a myth about this business that you would like to set straight?

[00:28:47] Brandon Campbell: Yeah, that you can't get started in it. I fully believe that anybody is capable of starting their journey in real estate and,it takes a little, there's a little knowledge. There's a little research you have to do and a little education, but I believe that, I believe that anybody is capable of building wealth. The majority of millionaires in the country made it through real estate. I believe that common misconception is either too hard

[00:29:08] Tim Little: Awesome. Yeah, I agree a hundred percent. All right, last question. What does success look like to you?

[00:29:13] Brandon Campbell: I don't think we ever arrive at it. If we keep looking for it, then I need a good carrot at the end of the stick. So I will never say that I'm successful. I wanna say that I'm chasing it.

[00:29:22] Tim Little: There you go. You never reach it. it's not an end state, right?

[00:29:25] Brandon Campbell: That's right.

[00:29:26] Tim Little: All right. Hey, Brandon, this has been awesome. Please tell our listeners how they can get a hold of you. And if there's anything else that you'd like to share with them.

[00:29:32] Brandon Campbell: Yeah. I'm not too hard to find, I'm the only brandon@limaone and that's my email address. brandon@limaone.com. So if you got a deal, you want to banter about the real estate market or, you want to buy your first, first fix and flip, I'm your guy emailing brandon@limaone, the only one. And then the last thing I'll leave you is that I'm in the business of relationships. I just happened to do mortgages. So, I've helped people quit their jobs, I've helped people rebuild America's neighborhoods, I've helped people flip their first house, and now they're doing five a month with me. It's very real, it's a reality that you can build wealth in this industry, and you can quit your day job and do real estate investing, and I can help you.

[00:30:06] Tim Little: Awesome. Again, Brandon, thanks for coming on the show. I appreciate you and look forward to continuing to see you do big things on your journey to multi family millions.

[00:30:15] Brandon Campbell: Thanks.

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