Down the Drain: Lessons on Addiction, Toxic Relationships, and Finding Your Way in Julia Fox's Memoir

In this episode Nadine delves into the remarkable resilience and candor of Julia Fox, a figure known for her storytelling and transparency about past relationships. Nadine reflects on how Julia's openness has inspired her to share her own truth without fear of repercussions. The episode emphasizes the importance of owning one's narrative, sharing personal experiences, and the consequences of wrongdoings. 

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Transcript

the-sober-butterfly_6_08-09-2024_092739: 0:02

Hello, and welcome to this episode of the Sober Butterfly Podcast. I am Nadine. And in this week's episode, we are talking all about Julia Fox's unfiltered memoir, Down the Drain. If you have not read this book, you need to. It is a must read for women everywhere, whether in recovery, sobriety, sober, drinking, using, it doesn't matter. This book has a place for everyone and it truly transformed the way that I see Julia Fox, the way that I view sobriety slash recovery, and even made me realize that I'm holding on to some addictions to this very day.

the-sober-butterfly_7_08-09-2024_093719: 0:40

I prefer to listen to memoirs, especially when they're read by the author. So Julia Fox herself narrates her life story down the drain. And I cannot tell you how many times I had real chills listening to this girl, this woman, I should say, Talk about really traumatic things that have happened to her and the fact that she's even here today is a miracle.

the-sober-butterfly_6_08-09-2024_092739: 1:05

So I'm going to get into all of that in today's episode. But before we do I just want to say, I'm sorry that I did not release an episode last Friday. So actually I did release an episode. I released an episode and then shortly thereafter deleted it. So I think only 12 people in the span of like maybe like 30 minutes, we're able to listen to the episode. And I released it on a Saturday. I had some technical issues. And then after listening to the episode again, I just was not feeling it. And so I don't want to release things for the sake of releasing them. So the episode that I deleted was called Brat Summer, Sober Edition. For those following me on social platforms, you may know I'm a little bit obsessed with this idea of Brat Summer. And I've been really trying to make it, Sober, I'm like, what does the sober brat summer look like? Because I'm fascinated with this idea. There were really great gems embedded in that episode around, what brat summer can look like from a sober perspective and truly, real brat energy. Is sober because if you can be that girl and be sober, like you don't need a social lubricant like alcohol or drugs to unlock that feral being that exists within all of us, then I think that's true brat energy. If you know nothing about Brat Summer, this whole term, this whole era has been defined by Charli XCX's album, Brat. And one of the most popular songs on her album is called 360. And she has a line in that song. Should I sing it for you guys? It's like, I'm everywhere, I'm so Julia, uh, uh, uh. That line is referring to none other than Julia Fox. And Julia Fox is that girl In doing research for that episode that no longer exists, I realized that Julia Fox is brat. And then that got me thinking, well, why is she brat? And it led me down this rabbit hole, so to speak, of learning more about Julia Fox. And for most people, especially if you haven't read her memoir, which I'm getting to, if you haven't read her memoir, you probably know Of Julia Foxx, whether you are familiar with her work, her acting work, or maybe even her photography work, or if you're a New Yorker, you definitely know that she's like a megastar here. And even before she like quote, made it in Hollywood, she was a local celebrity by New York standards for sure. she's more like infamous than famous, I would argue, and that's for a whole host of reasons. I myself remember going to see Uncut Gems in theaters when it came out. I love Adam Sandler and the movie, you know, is based in New York and I was just interested in seeing it and Julia Fox being the female lead in that movie transfixed me. Like there was something truly magnetizing. And spellbinding and it's beyond her physical appearance. There's star quality there. And she does talk about in her memoir how she felt like she was destined for fame from very early days. When she was born in the hospital, the nurses told her mother, With a name like that, Julia Fox, and those bright blue eyes, she's going to be famous. that obviously came true for her. But there was something about her. Like, she definitely has that it factor. I knew nothing about Julia Fox's story before that movie. I just saw her in that movie, like I mentioned, as being this really beautiful girl. She had a fat ass. Can I say that? Can I objectify a woman? But she, she was thick. She was thick for a white girl. And I was just like, who is this girl? Like she, she definitely held herself. I liked that she wasn't like the conventional beauty standard in terms of how, Hollywood views, particularly whiteness and white women. I think that the stereotypical in look is definitely thin or blonde, lighter, fairer skinned, and she's definitely more olive complexioned with darker hair and more of a reluctant figure, I'll say. And so that stood out to me. And then her personality was electrifying. And it was interesting in the book because she talks about how she wasn't really. Acting like, of course she was acting, but she was mainly portraying herself. I think of the very iconic call her daddy interview where she says, I'm just going to play it. Cause like you guys know exactly what I'm talking about.

the-sober-butterfly_7_08-09-2024_093719: 5:34

So for context, the host of Call Her Daddy asked Julia, she's like, what is a muse? And then this is where this trending audio really came to life So take a listen. Safty's Muse when he wrote Uncut Jazz. Do you know what I mean? Like things like that. Like, I think people make it seem a little more dramatic than it is. Like, you know what I mean? It's not like Van Gogh, like type of like, yes. So that of course led to countless. influencers, tiktokers, whoever, making fun of that soundbite, Uncut Gems, like it's hilarious. I feel like people weren't really talking about her until she landed up dating the artist, as she calls him in her book, That we of course know to be Kanye West and so dating Kanye West really elevated her status and not to say that she wasn't famous before of course she was known before but like this helped her get to a new level to where people were really dialed into who Julia Fox was and I felt like after that Relationship. She was sort of scrutinized publicly for a lot of her choices. Her interviews were like, you know, like that, like the uncut gems thing. People were making fun of her about that. Then there was some drastic weight loss. People were talking about that. Her. Questionable, perhaps, fashion choices, which I'll get into later because I see her as mentioned in a completely different light now. Anyway, the point I'm making here is that she was kind of like the butt of most people's joke. If Julia Fox entered the chat, I would argue eight to nine times out of 10. It wasn't for something positive. It was as a way to crack a joke or make fun of her.

the-sober-butterfly_8_08-09-2024_094122: 7:24

I know I'm kind of late in the game when it comes to talking about this book since it was released, I believe, in October of last year of 23, but I didn't take her book seriously, quite frankly, because I didn't take her seriously. And. Once again, I think her being the butt of so many jokes and poked fun of in the media just made me feel like this is just another celebrity reaching for coins that wants to share quote their life story. And it's just going to be fluff. I thought it would be fluffy. I was not prepared for the intensity and the rawness that her memoir actually gave and what sparked my interest to actually. Buy it. I bought it on audible, who is a sponsor of this podcast, but I, I downloaded it on audible because of this tick tock. But once again, Wasn't taking her seriously. I'm going to play the TikTok for you guys, because this is showcasing how women in particular are dismissed. So often when they share their life's events in any capacity, especially when it comes to being an author and releasing a book. So this is another TikTok where a woman is. Listening because this is narrated as mentioned by Julia Fox. She's listening to the memoir and she picks certain soundbites to string together this TikTok.

the-sober-butterfly_9_08-09-2024_094340: 8:50

I will also embed the link to this TikTok in the show notes in case you want to see it. But just to paint a picture for you, it's this woman, she's, you know, doing medial tasks, like folding laundry, typing at her desk, and she's listening in her AirPod to Julia Fox narrate this. and then the header is. Julia Fox's memoir is a wild ride, so take a listen. Did I seriously just wait 16 hours to get slapped in the face in front of the dead pope? I didn't even get to have a moment with him. I walk them out and then get on my hands and knees and scour the carpet for cocaine residue. Mistakenly rubbing cigarette ashes on my gums. I come to in an ambulance with vomit all around me. Even the paramedics are covered in vomit. On a routine visit to the probation office, I scan my hand and get an unexpected notification that I've been randomly selected for a drug test. Luckily, my dad gave me his pee, which I had warmed up in the microwave before biking over, so I'm not worried. I order 200 hissing cockroaches from Madagascar and convince my old friend Serena to release them in the club in exchange for a hundred bucks. I sit down and feel something hard stab me in the butt. I push the blanket over to reveal a 9mm Glock. I pick it up and examine it. We fight like hell, and we're not above throwing a few punches, but we always hug it out. And strangely, it only reinforces our bond. I put a piece of bubble gum in my mouth and bite down on it. To my absolute horror, I feel a piece of my back molar crack off into my mouth. I pretend nothing happened and carry on with the shoot, swallowing the tooth. And in that last scene, the girl, like, she's doing random house chores. She like passes out from hearing Julia Fox talk about swallowing her tooth. Those are obviously excerpts randomly strung together. But those are real things that have happened in the book and to Julia Fox. And you're listening to her hypnotic voice, it's very soothing. And the way she just casually mentions all of these things, like that is her tone throughout the book. It's very neutral almost. And you're listening to her talk about the most traumatic, I'm going to keep using this word, traumatic things. And you're like. Girl, like, how are you still here? How are you just talking about this? Once again, the header for that TikTok is Julia Fox's memoir is a wild ride for me. I don't like when a lot of people don't just say what it is like, that's take it at face value. It's not a wild ride. It's not crazy. It's just really sad and horrible and traumatic experiences. that are recounted in a way that sounds unusual to the average person, but I am not the average person. I have lived many lives. I'm not comparing myself to Julia Fox, but I've seen a lot of things I've experienced a lot of life. And so I think if you're the average listener, you're like, wow, this is so crazy. This is so wild. But I think what it does is it diminishes the true value and credibility. That she has as a woman who has overcome, and it is still working through and overcoming a lot of the harsh realities of life. And I'm going to get into some of the harsh realities because I don't want to give too, too much away. I actually mentioned before that this is a must read. This is a book for everyone, Particularly women. Um, and one thing about Julia, honey, is she is a girl's girl. She's a girl's girl almost to her own detriment. And just a parallel with my own life as a sober woman. I realized how much of my drinking and using was in relation to other people and relationships, quite frankly. But even after removing the substance, there are still some addictions that are very real. And I think it's this idea that I am addicted to people just like Julia Fox, and I am addicted to toxic. relationships, just like Julia Fox. So Julia Fox shares her memoir. It's somewhat in chronological order, meaning she starts with birth. She talks about her early years. between spending time with her grandfather and her mother in Italy, where she's from, and then making a transition to New York City. Basically growing up as she defines it as an orphan at a young age, like she had zero prevental guidance. So her parents were in a very tumultuous marriage. Her mother oscillated between Italy and New York. I think before she officially moved to New York, She did a stint in New York with her dad and her mom, and they were basically homeless. So her mom was like, I did not sign up for this. Took Julia back to New York with her younger brother. And then they moved into her grandfather's place. Their grandfather had like a one bedroom. So very small living quarters, but she describes those early days in her life is pretty happy for the most part. She was just a regular girl. She adored her grandfather. Her mother worked a lot. And it just seemed like her mom, like she is very clear in the memoir, like she does not have a good relationship with her mother. In those early, early Italy days, that was probably when they were the closest, but even then her mother seemed like she just didn't want to really be a mom. Like, I don't know if that's fair to fully say, cause I don't remember if Julia herself says that, but like, that's just the essence of what I got from that dynamic. She wasn't very present. Her grandfather was a constant in her life. she adored her grandfather. Anyway, she moves to New York as a young girl. Her mom stays behind in Italy with her brother, her younger brother. And so her dad basically gives her full range of the city. She was able to, not even she was able to, she shouldn't have been able to, but she basically had to fend for herself from a very young age. And she talks about how she would shoplift and she would even steal from her dad, take money from his wallet. As you can imagine an effect or impact of negligence, because it was straight up child neglect, is pining, yearning for connection. And so the way in which she does that, and it is apparent to me, from listening or reading her book, is she strives for relationships. And even if those relationships are not healthy, she is allured by this. idea of love. Like she just wants to be loved. She's a fragile girl in a big city who's not getting attention from home. And so she looks for that attention elsewhere. And so this is where early formative relationships through friendships with women or girls, other girls, her age really become apparent. And she leans like her whole, every like she puts her everything into relationships and Not to make this about me, but I resonated with parts of that story, not because I had neglectful parents, but because I grew up as an only child and I very much craved attention from other people. sometimes to my own detriment, like I would buy people things or give away things, like trying to buy their love and their attention and their friendship. And that has persisted throughout my life. And. I see it in many dynamics I have, not just with other girls, but in romantic relationships as well. So anyway, she very much did the same thing. Like she would shoplift for her friends and like buy them things just to make that connection.

the-sober-butterfly_10_08-09-2024_095534: 16:31

There is some foreshadowing in those early days. So the beginning part of her life where she mentions going to the doctor, I think it was just for a routine checkup and like the doctor was giving her a shot and she talks about loving the feeling. And so spoiler alert, Julia Fox is a recovering heroin addict, and so she talks about how seeing the blood mixed with the. Like the tincture inside the vial gave her a rush that she'd never felt before. And so that was interesting to me because what kid likes getting shots? I don't know many. So there was something really alluring about hearing her describe that. And I was just like, Oh, where is this going? So anyway, she grows up pretty much doing her own thing in New York and something else interesting here, which I think a lot of women can relate to is being. hypersexualized at a very young age, especially when you develop, and I'm air quoting, you develop early. So I already objectified Julia earlier in this episode, right? I was talking about how she was reluctant and curvy. And, um, you know, she always had bigger breasts growing up. And so men notice that there was a point in time when I think she was 11 and this man was like, Following her around like just randomly from the street, followed her around and was like groping himself in front of her and then she talks about, you know, being unsupervised in New York. She got her nipples pierced and a tattoo at a very early age, maybe like 13 and the guy at the tattoo artist gave it to her for free her and her friend because she was flirting with him and she lost her virginity to an older man when she was 14. Visiting Italy for summer. I think she was public 14 and this man was at least 20 and how, basically older men have always gravitated to her. And I can relate to that as well. I think the male gaze. is something that I strove for because my dad wasn't as present in my life. And so you want that male attention. I think Julia Fox felt similarly where it was, her dad was not really there for her in terms of how you would need a parental figure to be there for you in those early formative years. And so once again, you seek that attention from elsewhere. And especially if you're receiving. Positive. Obviously, it's not positive because these men are old and gross, but if you're receiving positive attention from men based off of how you look, you really lean into that. And so she did that. And so she dressed older and acted older than her actual age and dated older. And all of these things are unacceptable, but super normalized. And it really set the foundation for what her later years, and when I say later years, I'm not talking about like 20s even, I'm talking about mid teens throughout her 20s, would lead to years and years of addiction.

the-sober-butterfly_11_08-09-2024_095941: 19:31

This memoir, like most memoirs, very much a coming of age story. There's a quote that I highlighted, she says, I thought the drugs would save me from myself. But they just made the noise in my head louder. So growing up in New York, Julia, like I said, she's unhinged. She's able to roam freely, do whatever she wants. She makes acquaintances with people who, most would define, As sketchy people that are living sort of on the fringes of society. These are her friends. These are people that she parties with regularly that she not only associates herself with, but like she leans into like, these are her people. And so this quote, I thought the drugs would save me from myself, but they just made the noise in my head louder. is very telling to how so many people are deceived by the allure of substances as an escape. Julia Fox wanted to escape her life. I wanted to escape my life. The means to do that or the vehicle is often substances, whether that be alcohol or something else. she didn't start with heroin, right? That's not typically how it goes. She started with alcohol and she. Progressed with pills. And then next thing you know, she's smoking angel dust. And, you know, of course, marijuana is in the mix. And so it's a cocktail of different things that gets you to this place where you want to push the boundaries more and more. And it's all because you're masking something deeper on an emotional level. Some kind of pain, the source of her pain. I'm not a psychologist, but I would argue is her lack, her, her lack of love, her lack of support, her lack of connection, feeling connected to parental figures. So just to give a little bit more context in terms of where her life is at this point, her mother. Epson flows in and out of her life. Her dad is there, but like constantly chooses to prioritize other people. at one point, a friend of hers, it's really creepy comes into the picture. And literally Julia is like, it's me or it's her, my friend who is also my age. And her dad. chooses her friend. So she moves out. I'm skipping all over the place. So I'm trying to do my best to tell the story linearly. It's hard because there's just so much there, but basically Her mom moves to New York with her brother at some point. And at this point in her life, she's had so much freedom and flexibility that when her mom comes and tries to discipline her or give her any semblance of like structure, she's like, no, thank you. And so that leads to a lot of tension. And so, you know, she's living in her wild carefree, I'm going to do what I want era. And who are you to come in here and change the dynamic of everything. And so her mom. And her fight a lot. And then I think I mentioned already, she had a summer in Italy where she lost her virginity. The summer that she graduates middle school before going to high school. She loses her virginity. So like, she must've been like, I don't know, that's like 13. And so when she comes back, she's just like, my friends are immature. Like they're talking about things that I'm not relating to because, you know, I've had this very adult like summer in Italy. So long story short, she convinces her parents to basically allow her to move to Italy. And Her mom eats it up. Her mom's like, yeah, go. I'm sick of you. You don't listen to me anyway. They sent her off to Italy and she just assumes Julia thinks that, oh, I'm going to, you know, live with grandpa again. And I'll take care of him because at this time I think he was diagnosed with cancer. And I'll get to see this guy. I think his name was Giovanni. the guy that took her virginity. I'm going to get to spend time with him because, This is, I love this man, you know, you know how it goes. So she gets to Italy and her mom basically foisters her off with this exchange family, this family who was doing sort of like an exchange program, who thought that Julia would be perfect for their daughter, who was around the same age to help her practice her English. But they don't know Julia is fully fluently. Italian. She lived there. She's Italian. That was her first language. So they're a little disappointed when they meet her. And then of course, Julia goes to school, meets a group of people, kind of falls into the wrong crowd. And one day the family is just like, we don't want you here anymore. And they contact her parents. And her mom was like, what did you do? You ruined it. And she's like, I didn't do anything. I have no idea what you're talking about. But basically she's. Displaced and she goes to live with her grandfather while her mom sort of figures out what to do with her in italy because in the interim While julia is living in italy. She's realizing I hate this. I actually don't want to be here Giovanni this man that like I love doesn't care about me. He doesn't want to see me. He doesn't care that I moved to italy so like now what and school was hard for her school was always really difficult for her because She just felt like she was never good at anything You except for creative writing and with her, sporadic drug using and partying, like it was just never a priority for her. And so she kind of feels lost and wants to come back so badly to New York, but her parents are not budging. I think the holidays roll around so she is able to go back to New York and when she goes back she meets this guy who ends up being the worst man. Um, so he's a drug dealer. Her friend actually dated him. It's weird. This is back in the MySpace days. So like one of her best friends, once again, she had very toxic female relationships. So one of her best friends that she gave her all to cut her off, that really hurt her, cut her deeply to her core. And distance herself from her, that friend that actually ends up going to rehab. This guy is known as Ace. Now, of course, I did a little bit of digging and his real name is Geo, but to protect, you know, identities, she calls him Ace. And he's like a big time drug dealer. I don't know how big time he is actually, probably not that big time. But for, you know, being, you know, a mid teen girl, like, 14, 15. He's a big deal. Um, and he was just trying so hard to be a gangster and he does a lot of emotional, physical, psychological abuse to Julia, to manipulate her and to basically Emancipate Leaving Italy because they meet while she's on holiday break in New York She literally goes to a friend of a friend's apartment and He sees her acts like he's not interested Gives her some kind of pill and next thing, you know, she's having sex with him on the bed in front of everyone so Yeah, what a what a great meet cute story and then he basically tells her like he is in love with her You And she's going to be his wife. that same night upon just meeting, go get tattoos. And she tattoos his name on her wrist and he tattoos her name on his chest. And of course, like you're young and dumb and you're like, this is it. And he was like, if you love me, you will leave Italy. Or you won't go back to Italy. And she's like, I have to go back to Italy. My parents are making me, I'm 15. And he's like, no, if you love me, you will stay here. So she ends up going back to Italy after this whirlwind, I don't know, like week or two romance. And she's just like resolved to come back to New York. She was like, I can't be here. My future hubby is in New York. And then he starts to. distance himself. We like to call this in psychology stonewalling. So like he's not being responsive. So you have to like imagine the time period Julia Fox and I are similar in age. So this is my space era. This must've been like 2000 like six. Yeah, like six or seven. So like their AOL messaging, she's following and stalking his MySpace page and he's manipulating her. Okay. He has all of the pieces and he's moving them very strategically to get Julia to come back to New York. But how is she coming back to New York? She's 15. She doesn't have a job. Her parents are like, absolutely not. We are not having you come back here. So she goes to her grandfather who she loves probably more than anyone in the world. And she lies to him and says, Grandpa, I am pregnant and I need to get an abortion. Can you give me the money? And so grandfather's like shaking my head. Julia, you're on a bad path. But yes, of course, I will give you the money. he gives her the money and she uses that money to secure a trip back to New York. She actually ends up getting a round trip. Plane ticket because she's like, just in case things don't work out with ace. I can come back to Italy. Of course. She does not tell her parents. This is her plan. She doesn't even get to say goodbye to her grandfather who is dying by the way. Which of course she'll end up regretting because I think that was the last time she ever saw him, but she leaves Italy. She's back in New York. Now she's living a very crazy fast paced life with ace. I don't even want to say crazy because crazy makes it sound like it's like crazy. It is traumatic she lives a very Traumatic experience with this man where they're literally on the run from the law So he does this like really stupid thing where he accepts payment to beat some kid up outside of a school And he does it in this very bravado way to gain Julia's affection which is really weird Like i'm gonna go beat this kid up literally beat him to a pulp like he needs to be taken to the hospital and have my, my girl watch it like, Ooh, doesn't that make you wet baby? I don't know. Like crazy. Um, so she sees all of this and now they're on the run because the person that paid him to do that job rats him out to the police. I think he already had like an open case against him. So he was like, Oh, I'm not going back to Rikers, which is a prison. and then Julian now. I think her parents have realized after a couple weeks, which she was a little offended by, she's like, it took you guys two weeks to even realize I was missing. At this point, they realize that she's missing and she's literally on wanted posters, like plastered. Think about like this girl, five, However tall she is. I think she was offended too because when she finally saw the wanted poster her parents knew nothing about her She says it was heartbreaking for her. They had the wrong weight off by 40 pounds they had the wrong height They chose the most unflattering photo of her. Her and her fiance, Ace, so they're engaged. I forgot to mention that. Um, they go hide out at Ace's mom's house, who she describes as being a really nice woman. and Ace, increasingly becomes paranoid. He's feeding her drugs to keep her hooked, and also keep her in her place. they never leave the apartment except for maybe to go get pizza down the block and she becomes withdrawn. She starts gaining weight. Getting pimples because they're eating crap and she starts to feel like a shell of her former self And ace is just eating this up. He's like, yeah, you're ugly. You're fat. No one's gonna want you except for me I love you Just employing like I said all of the manipulation tactics and he's a bit older than her too. So he knows what he's doing And finally she's just like enough is enough like you need to turn yourself into the authorities This is making it worse since i'm wanted and i'm a minor and I think the actually he gets a um You a call from a detective that's like, look, we know that the squirrel is with you. If you just come down to the station and talk to us, like we will not press charges for kidnapping.

the-sober-butterfly_13_08-09-2024_101705: 31:14

I can't remember fully her parents reaction, but they were a little apathetic. they were like, okay, we're glad that you are okay. But they were also like, was this a ploy for attention? Like, what are you doing kind of thing? She thinks she's escaped Ace. She thinks this ordeal is totally done with because he actually ends up getting booked with an idiot. Like, anytime the police are like, just come talk to us and you have an open case. I'm not even a criminal or criminal mastermind, but I know that like, the police lie, the police lie. So of course he gets booked. He heads right back to Rikers where he belongs. And she thinks that this ordeal is over because this man has controlled so much of her everything. Spoonfed her drugs, made her reliant completely on him, and she feels like, I can breathe, like I have space again and I can do what I want, but this is only really the beginning of his abuse. This man is stalking her. He's threatening that he's going to kill her. He's just doing the most and she's over it. And Basically, she gets out of, and I'm not going to go into every single relationship that Julia Fox has because we would be here, I'd basically be reading you the book, but this particular relationship was important to me because it was her first real relationship, and some people argue that you have three great loves in your life.

the-sober-butterfly_14_08-09-2024_101957: 32:41

And the reason I'm spending so much time on Gio in particular is because he was her first love. So the three loves theory is this theory that posits that each love we encounter in our lives serve as a very distinct purpose and the first love teaches us about our expectations. And this love is meant to teach us about our own expectations the joys and the challenges of a relationship. Of course, there's youthful exploration that takes place. You're sharing a lot of firsts together. there's almost like this familial connection there's definitely negativity that's involved with the 1st love because you have nothing to draw the experience from. You have no other real context. And so Julia's 1st love is telling. And I think geo represents. a symbolic figure for the foreshadowing that we see play out throughout the rest of her romantic relationships, which is usually connected to substances, connected to yearning and validation, never feeling like you are good enough and having to campaign to others to show your value, to prove your love, to be a ride or die, quite literally in some cases. So, Geo very much represented that for her and I think like even the aftermath of their relationship dissolving She quite literally ends up in a mental institution in a psych ward To get away from him because she was being love bombed to the umpteenth degree even though this man is behind bars He was having her followed and sending letters and threatening calls and texts and even talking to her boyfriend her dad or her mom about the situation. being her kidnapper quite literally, um, it's almost like Stockholm syndrome. So even though she knew that relationship was very toxic and who knows, could have been fatalistic had he not gone to prison. It defined, I think, how she saw herself and how she viewed romantic relationships.

the-sober-butterfly_15_08-09-2024_102322: 34:46

So after that breakup, of course, Julia Fox, not of course, but she ends up experimenting more with drugs. Like he was almost like a catalyst. He introduced her to harder things and then she kept going from there. And I think most people after a breakup, you're kind of like, I'm, I'm doing me, I'm free. Especially if you've been in a controlling relationship, you are like, I'm going to set the rules for myself. So she's being a little promiscuous, sleeping around, you know, dating different people. I'm glossing over many details here, but like, she's had a few abortions and, you know, There are times that she says, like, I didn't know who the baby's father was and things like this. She's partying. She's going out. She's hanging out with a different crowd of people. And I think it's this vicious cycle of seeking solace in something that ultimately exasperates the problem. Right? So. That doesn't always have to be a substance. That can be people too. And I think it's a common experience that we can relate to in the sober community, because how many of us have sought escape through substances and in the eventual realization that it doesn't lead to peace at all. It just makes everything worse. worse. Like I said, I'm not going to go into every single relationship. There's just so many juicy details. This is why you have to read the book. She becomes a mistress, um, not mistress in the sense, well, she was dating a married man, but mistress in terms of like working in the sex club and being a dom. A mistress of the night, so to speak, which was really fascinating. And through that experience, she ends up meeting her sugar daddy, which she prayed for. There was a line. Let me see if I can find this line for you, where she's like talking about finding a sugar, sugar daddy. Hold on. so she's working as a dom in the club and she's ready to leave. She's done with the sex work, and she, I'm reading a quote here. I shut my eyes and pray. Please God, please send me a sugar daddy. I promise I'll be so good. I'll never do anything bad again. That threw me out. Like I was laughing so hard because let's be real. How many of us have prayed for a sugar daddy? I know I have. I'm like, God, please just, just send me a sugar daddy. And I promise I will be good. I will do my best in life. I will be my best self. I promise. But, um, of course we know that doesn't fix anything. It's just a bandaid, but it does lead to some opportunities for her. So the sugar that she got was actually pretty good. Um, to her. I mean, as far as sugar daddies go, he was married. He was a billionaire. So like, she found the ultimate sugar daddy and he was older than her, of course, as they always are. And basically he cared for her and her friends. And this is kind of connected back to this toxic relationships, not just with men, but also with women. female dynamics and friendships and platonic relationships because her friends basically, through her sugar baby ing, that's another verb, her sugar baby ing, they became reliant and codependent on her sugar daddy as well. So she's doing all the work, she's doing, you know, she's going on the dates, she's sleeping with this man, she's doing all of the things, but her friends have also become Accustomed to a certain lifestyle so that he moves them up into like this fancy I think penthouse in tribeca or somewhere like that And you know, he helps her and her one of her best friends open their own clothing line and He's financing everything. He's financing everything. He's paying for their rent. He's paying for this brand. He's paying for everything and everyone's leaning on julia to not quote, fuck this up. At this time, she goes through stints of sobriety. So she was introduced to heroin. I can't remember exactly when, so you're gonna have to read the book for yourself. But, um, she ends up basically being a heroin addict and then she'd have brief periods of sobriety. She meets one of her very best friends who is sober at the time and introduces her to the rooms of AA. Um, this friend. I don't know if I should tell you guys, you're going to have to read it for yourself and read it for yourself. Yeah, so her friends are reliant on her in this relationship. And so in the tenure of sugar babying, I'm making that a word. she ends up reconnecting with a guy that she knew in her earlier teen years. Um, so now just to set the tone, I think she's like late teens, like 19, maybe early twenties, 20 ish. She's a full time sugar baby. And she ends up falling for this other guy in the book. And I would argue that, you know, going back to the three loves theory, that this guy served as her rebound love. So after the first love is the rebound love, and it's often the most toxic out of the three loves. This is just a theory. You can, of course, have more than three loves in your life, or you could not have any in your life. But I think if I'm going to Categorize the different players in her life because there's been quite a few men. I would argue that this guy I can't remember his name um, and she talks about him a lot, but he basically was I would argue like one of the most toxic relationships. Like he knew what it was when he reconnected with Julia. Like when she first met him years prior, she said like, I don't think he ever liked me, but like seeing him years later, of course she's living a lavish lifestyle. He all of a sudden likes her. So like that's red flag number one. Um, number two, was that he knew about her being a sugar baby, was like, don't worry, I'm not the jealous type. And then he ends up being the most jealous guy in the world And it would constantly make her feel as though she was a whore or she was playing him and it's like, you knew what this was, you knew from the beginning what this was and he basically would give her ultimatums all the time and it works because she actually falls for him and he makes it clear. Like it's me or him. And she chooses him instead of her sugar daddy. She chooses this guy and this guy, by the way, she invests into like his business projects. Like he wanted to open a club. He's physically abusive, emotionally abusive, mentally abusive, all of the forms of abuse. Once again, just you're seeing a reoccurring theme here. He abuses her beyond belief basically in like the most degrading ways and She ends up writing a book about him because he was somewhat of I guess like a local celebrity at the time as well And she does like this tell all about some of the experiences which it sounds like she's somewhat regretted afterwards perhaps but like He deserved it, in my opinion. The way this man played in her face, like, constantly. and they actually end up reconnecting years later in AA as well. But, once again, back to the love theory. The aftermath of a young first love, is often referred to as the rebound love or relationship. And this often emerges from a place of vulnerability and a desire to heal from past pain. So the guy that she linked up with afterwards, like her real boyfriend, she thought may have been a sense of. Secureness and love because I think what she was struggling with at the time was that her sugar daddy was so much older than her and she kind of wanted to be a normal girl, but of course was enjoying the perks of being his sugar baby. this guy represented, you know, a normal guy, essentially, he was hot in her age. Ends up being a really volatile Emotionally, physically abusive relationship, but in general, the beauty of the rebound love is if you can get yourself out of it, it can really teach us to prioritize self discovery and can also serve as a catalyst for true personal growth and resilience. And so after that relationship, she has to leave New York for a bit. Like it blows up in her face. You read about it. But, um, she goes on like this adventure of a lifetime where she goes and moves down to New Orleans and has a really intense love affair with her friends, basically. They're all addicts. And she herself is struggling with her addiction. I think when she first went down to new Orleans, she was doing everything, but she was like, I know that heroin is off limits for me. That is her drug of choice. So she knew that she could not do heroin. But of course, you know, you hang out with. People who are doing that eventually it will lead you to also do that again. So she does end up using heroin again Um, i'm skipping over so much guys Like she's had a couple at this point in her life a couple brushes with death. Um where she's You know, ended up overdosing and thank God survived to tell about it. I'm going to fast forward a bit because I'm realizing there's just so much that happens in this book. I can't tell you everything. Otherwise, this will be the length of the actual book. So I want to talk a little bit and wind down around the road to recovery and explore how Julia's journey toward recovery by acknowledging some of the setbacks and victories, that she describes. And so there's a key quote here that I'm going to talk about, which is, I'm still here, still standing. This book is not really in a linear process in terms of like the ups and downs with her addiction. But there's some really key parts here just around the importance of perseverance and resilience and the role that community can play as well as self reflection and a personal commitment to recovery. And I think a big part of Julia's sobriety or her recovery, I actually don't think that she would probably even describe herself as sober. I think she may drink alcohol, but she is completely sober from her drug of choice, which once again is heroin. Her recovery has definitely been non linear as mentioned with ups and downs. And I think through self reflection and her personal commitment to recovery in terms of defining what that looks like for her, because she does talk about AA and different recovery programs.

45:22

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the-sober-butterfly_15_08-09-2024_102322: 47:06

I found her later chapters in her book to be unputdownable. They were quite frankly intoxicating. I think the value for me in this book is it really shows how people get into these bad situations so early in life and can't get out of them. And we see that play out, with like the relationships that she has with other people, especially with her friends. I mentioned before that she kind of hangs out with people who would be deemed addicts, um, living on the fringes of society. Her time in new Orleans, I think really epitomizes what that looked like for her. Imagine going to a camp, but like it's the most destructive. Drug fueled experience of your life. So it was like exhilarating but also rejuvenating. It's weird It's like this really weird time. The way she describes it, She's talking about these very harrowing experiences where people are shooting up and doing all these crazy things. And how there's many instances where you're like, whoa, how did you not die? hanging out in trap houses and just in the value and all insanity, truly. But at the same time, it's like, It was restorative. I, I know that's such an oxymoron. I know how that sounds. You just have to read it to believe it. Take my word in the meantime, but she's lost so many friends to ODs, to overdoses. While I don't personally know anyone with such extreme addiction problems currently in my life, like I've met people, but like, I don't have those close bonds and those relationships the way that Julia has. It was hugely enlightening for me. It made me realize that Julia Fox was and potentially still is addicted to people as much as drugs. I too am addicted to people as much as I have been to substances. There is something inherently dangerous about that because when you put so much of your energy and your focus into prioritizing things that are external outside of what you hold internally, you are bound to be disappointed because we as humans are flawed. We know that we are perfectly flawed as they would say in the rooms or in recovery. And so recognizing that other people cannot be your guiding light. Um, other people cannot be your everything. Um, and maybe, you know, if you're a parent, You can argue differently. I'm not right now. I'm operating from a perspective of like I have to be my number one Focus am I number one? priority getting in tune with who I am my self worth my identity and the power of self love is heavily intertwined with With my sobriety and I think delving into Julia Fox's struggle with self acceptance really hindered her and it wasn't until I'm quoting her again. She says, I had to learn how to love myself. flaws and all and that journey towards self love is crucial in sobriety. Breaking away from societal expectations and the toxic relationships that can fuel addiction because she had to cut many people off. So Julia does go on to actually get married. She talks in depth about that relationship with her. Baby's father and now ex husband. Later on, of course, we meet the artist who is Kanye West, and he actually had a minor role, which I really appreciated in that book. He was a terrible boyfriend. It sounds like he did it for clout and then in turn tried to make it seem like she was clout chasing It's like no dude, you came after me. I was minding my business over here and he's just weird We know kanye is weird. So I was not surprised by any of the things that she shared I want to just give her a quick snap kudos to her for not signing the nda to where we can actually hear about some of the stupid things he had her do, just trivial rich people nonsense, in my opinion. Many people probably thought the book was written in regards to her relationship. And it felt like an aftermath, like an afterthought, like, Oh, like we'll talk about this, like, which I love. It just made me love Julia Fox even more. The fact that like, it was not about him at all, really, but what she learned from that relationship is it strained some of her close ties with her girlfriends who ended up working for Kanye after they broke up, even though she helped get them the job. It's like weird. It also helped her, get more in tuned with like her personal style and not dressing for the male gaze, like decentering men. I am so for it. Like not dressing because you think this aesthetic will attract a man, but like dressing for yourself because you're a girl and you know what girls want. You know what you want, you know how you want to look. And so like that just helps me so much. And I think. Once again, going back to a point I was talking about earlier, which is this idea that when you're objectified at such a young age because you, like, develop breasts before your time or whatever, men gawk at you and you are are getting this feedback and you think it's positive. And therefore you are leaning into this hyper sexualized persona. And I love that she bleaches her eyebrows blonde. And then like, she's like, I don't care if you think it looks pretty, I like it. and I love that she wears like things that I probably would not, she does talk a little bit about her weight loss and while she has suffered from ED in the past, eating disorders that that is, she had like a period of bulimia that she talks about openly. A big part of her losing weight was, the trials and tribulations of being a single mother and the stress that imparted on her physical appearance and her, appetite, quite frankly. So she loses all this weight and therefore she loses the version that the world was introduced to as Julia Fox, which is like being known for these curves, right? Like she is no longer as curvaceous and that's not necessarily to ascribe to Hollywood standard of beauty. Like you have to be real thin to be deemed beautiful. She's like, no, like actually I'm less attractive to men because they saw me in uncut gems and I don't have the same body type that I have been. And yeah, I love that I'm not getting as much attention from men. I appreciate that about her and I would encourage anyone to also just talking about Brad Summer, like Brad Summer is not giving a fuck, right? That's how I introduced this episode. Like we want to lean into our own the definitions of beauty and what that means to us and like develop your own personal style. So speaking of trends, I know I'm going all over the place here, but just speaking of trends, like it's okay to not be trendy, to hop on a trend because everyone else is doing it. It's okay not to dress a certain way because you think that men are going to like that. And I just salute and highly respect Julia Fox.

the-sober-butterfly_16_08-09-2024_104918: 54:28

Okay. So thank you guys for listening to this episode. It went a little longer than I expected, but I didn't realize I had so much to share about Julia and how incredible I think she is and resilient and powerful. Hearing her share. So Raleigh about other people's impact on her own life is encouraging for me. And it's a nice reminder that obviously people have different accounts of situations, but like my account is valid. Like I'm allowed to share my perspective, never lying. Right. But from my perspective, this is how it happened. And I feel like I've strayed away from. sharing certain troops or sharing certain stories because I'm afraid of how it will impact someone else. And I'm going to stop doing that. If you do me wrong, I'm allowed to talk about it. I shouldn't have to shy away from it. They should be aware that there are consequences to wronging other people. And hey, if they want to talk about it, they can write their own version of events or their own tell all or start their own podcast. So I say all that to say I'm going to be very forthcoming about my life in regards to other people and stuff, caring so much about how it is. May be perceived by the other party. All right. So thank you guys for listening to this week's episode of the silver butterfly I am excited to be bringing more episodes to you guys every single Friday Pinky promise and yeah, thanks for tuning in. See you next week. Oh before I go Please, please, you know what I'm about to say. If you have not left a review for this show, please go ahead and do that. it helps the show grow. I'm really trying to monetize the podcast by the end of the year. And that would just helps me do it at no cost to you. If you liked this episode, also share it with your friends. And once again, you need to buy this book. I'm going to drop a link below for you to Join Audible. I'm going to leave a link below for you to listen to the narrative, or the memoir Down the Drain, which I listened to in Audible, who's also a sponsor of the show. You can get a complete free month by clicking the link in the show notes and signing up for Audible. Totally free for one month. Or you can buy the book in hard copy. I'll also leave a link. To my Amazon storefront. Okay. Love you guys. Bye