The Mummy and it’s children

It’s the 25th anniversary of The Mummy - I know, we can’t believe it either. How time flies. So we’re paying tribute to the first addition to the greatest ancient-history-action-adventure-thriller-franchise of all time and its somewhat uneven sequels and prequels. Topics covered include, of course, sexy mummies, Brendan Frasier at his peak and the incredible discovery of Rachel Weiz.

References
An oral history of the making of The Mummy by Clark Collis for Entertainment Weekly
A video of Nina Wilcox Putnam, the co-author of the 1932 The Mummy screenplay, which was based on a real-life magician called Alessandro Cagliostro.
Everything you need to know about The Mummy franchise on mummy.fandom.com

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Original music by James Brailsford
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Transcript

James: 0:00

I think the casting is just as insane as the historical accuracy.

Lily: 0:13

Welcome to Groovy Movies. My name is Lily Austin.

James: 0:17

my name's James Brailsford. Hello.

Lily: 0:19

James. How you doing?

James: 0:21

I am not doing too bad, thank you. how about yourself?

Lily: 0:24

I'm pretty good. I was up very early for the morning shift at work. That means getting up at quarter to five.

James: 0:30

of course you, you, you've had a full day's work and now you are valiantly persevering to get the podcast out, uh, in our schedule.

Lily: 0:37

Under normal circumstances, this would feel very painful. But as we are talking about a very, very important film in my own personal canon. I'm happy. It's a joy.

James: 0:49

It's like wheeling me out to talk about Nolan. I'll, I'll do it after like I've worked a 48 hour shift. You could just put me through a microphone. I'm good. I'm good to go. Yeah, I understand.

Lily: 0:57

Yeah, exactly. That's exactly it. In fact, this film is so important to me. This whole franchise, that might be a bit strong, but the first few films are so important to me. I'm actually shocked we've never talked about them before, but I think on some level we knew to wait for the 25th anniversary.

James: 1:14

Well, I, I hate, I hate to just be the, that guy, but did we not mention it on our comfort films?

Lily: 1:20

shit. Did we? memory is so bad. Yes,

James: 1:26

know, the, the worst thing is I got a terrible memory. So we're, we're a fatal combo, Lily.

Lily: 1:32

I, if I remember rightly, that was one of our lesser performing episodes. So probably for the listeners, most of them won't know this, so it's fine. It's all good.

James: 1:40

And we're about to do a deep dive. So here we, you know, that was one of many films that we discussed. So

Lily: 1:45

that was skimming over.

James: 1:47

the full beam of our cultural and film analysis is going to be pointed on 1999's Brendan Fraser starring The Mummy.

Lily: 1:55

Good, good intro. I was like, when are we actually gonna mention the name of the film?

James: 2:00

I figured we'd better, we need to stop being so mysterious even though it's going to be the title of the podcast. Anyway.

Lily: 2:05

Yeah. By the way, do you love the title? I came up with the Mommy in Its Children.

James: 2:09

Excellent word play, Lily. No, I, I, I just, I went on a right deep dive on this. You see, cause he said you'd done some research and I was like, Oh God, I got to keep up and luckily the research I did is completely separate from yours. So, cause I was worried I was going to duplicate, like I've gone down some rabbit

Lily: 2:24

Yes, yeah, I saw a few of your notes and I'm excited to discuss. So yes, this week we were talking about The Mummy, very, very important movie, as you said, from 1999, which I do believe could be the greatest year in film history. I think we need to do a whole episode on 1999 and just like run through the strongest movies because there are so many, it's ridiculous.

James: 2:45

This came onto my radar because, um, it was on Cineworld, on their listings, because I always like to look each week to see what, what films are out, but also I know that a lot of re releases just don't get any promotional budget behind them. I mean, that's how we found gravity between us. Like they don't spend any money promoting it, but you have to kind of keep on the lookout. So I noticed the moment, but it was, it was tagged as, as, 1999 season. So there's a season of films that have been shown at Cineworld under the banner of 99. So fascinating that you, you, you flagged it as like a good year for film, because obviously they need stuff to put in the cinemas right now. So 99 it is.

Lily: 3:19

We'll be discussing The Mummy this year, possibly the strongest of all of 1999's films. And then also, the movies that came after it, because I have a particular point of view about this franchise and where its strengths and weaknesses lie. Okay. but more about that later. To start with, James, please give me a plot summary.

James: 3:42

It's an adventure set in Egypt. It's a very Indiana Jonesy romp as we, are trying to find Egyptian treasure, and there's Rick O'Connell in your Indiana Jones kind of roguish, bad boy. Who's like a, you know, adventurous. Slash treasure hunter

Lily: 3:58

to stop you there.

James: 4:00

God. I'm a misrepresenting the film.

Lily: 4:06

The film has an interesting, Story structure because at the very beginning we start with essentially a flashback to ancient Egypt and we get the myth and the story that is then going to be pursued in quote unquote modern day, modern day is 1923. in my mind, I feel like we actually, we follow, we're really following Rachel Weisz's character, Evelyn Carnahan I feel like we get more, a lot of, a lot more of her backstory in her interior life, Rick O'Connell, the, uh, the Brendan Fraser character is a bit more of the sexy, mystery.

James: 4:40

Evie gets him out of prison to help her. So he, yeah, he's very much more her assistant, essentially. He's helping her achieve her goals,

Lily: 4:50

They're very much equals. She is running the show on this mission, but he has as much information as she does. it's all about equality, this movie between the sexes, I would say.

James: 5:01

He's the gung ho, got the guns, he'll get a sword, he'll, he'll lop off a mummy's head. And, uh, Rachel Weisz as Evie, she's the brains of the

Lily: 5:09

she's a bookish librarian and he is a roguish yank.

James: 5:14

Yeah.

Lily: 5:15

And so basically they go on this mission together for differing reasons. She, she's very into the artifacts and she just wants to discover this magical book of Omra. Rick is just keeping up his bit of the bargain because she saved his life and so in exchange, he will help her. And he knows where this place is that they need to go to because he fought in a battle previously, but this place is cursed by a mummy. Now, the back story I find fascinating in its lack of logic, because it is very unclear as to why you would want to awaken this might basically, well, it's two things. So basically the back story is there is Seti the first, he is the wealthiest Pharaoh to have ever ruled Egypt. He has a mistress called, uh, Anoxonamun, and she's having an affair with the high priest, Imotep. when Seti discovers that they are having an affair, they, they kill him. And as punishment for, well, so then, Imotep says, no, Anoxonamun

James: 6:30

is like a season one plot summary.

Lily: 6:32

know, but come on guys, it's important. It's relevant. It's relevant. Okay. So, Anakson Amun says to Imhotep, you're the high priest, you're the only one who can raise me from the dead, so I'm going to kill myself rather than face the consequences of what we just did, that she just this second, we killed the pharaoh. So she kills herself and then he, he goes into the night with his lowly priest to try and bring her back from the dead, but he's caught in the act by the. Bodyguards, essentially, of the Pharaoh, and they kill him. they bury him alive with, scarab beetles, which come up a lot in this movie. They're very scary. These little beetles, these massive beetles that crawl under your skin and eat you from the inside. Good horror movie stuff. So basically, part of the punishment is that they put this curse on him. It seems to me very unclear why that is a punishment for him. this idea is he's like going around the, uh, the afterlife, having a bad time. And at any moment, he could be risen from the dead. And so now throughout the ages, the Medjay, the pharaoh's Bodyguards, essentially, have to keep watch to stop him being brought back from the dead because this mummy will be all powerful and be able to kill the world. And it's like, but why would you do that? What? Why is that a punishment for Imhotep? That's a punishment for the world.

James: 7:49

Yeah, I mean, I genuinely didn't even,

Lily: 7:52

Yes, I've watched this 20 times.

James: 7:55

I definitely haven't considered those points, which are very well made, Lily. I was just like, stuff's happening and it's fun.

Lily: 8:02

Well that's the thing, you know what, I'm saying all this but the, the real point is none of it matters because the story is so thrilling that it doesn't matter. At least that's how, that's how I feel about it. Did you enjoy it? Have you seen it before?

James: 8:16

Oh, I love it. I've seen it once before when I was at film school, funnily enough. I saw it at film school and I loved it. and I remember watching the director's commentary and I found it really interesting. It was a very good director's commentary by Stephen Somers.

Lily: 8:29

Now that really, that, that really dates it in a good way. Like I bloody love a director's commentary. It's my favorite thing in the world. Juno has an excellent one. I think I've mentioned that before.

James: 8:38

Yeah, the mummies is particularly good one as well. Very detailed, lots of interesting like filmmakery stuff.

Lily: 8:45

Brilliant. Well, so the writer director, Stephen Somers, he had like a horror movie background, right? He'd made, I think one quite successful horror movie or am I, am I wrong?

James: 8:58

no, I think you're right. I think he's five films on IMDB before we get to the mummy. And the previous one is called Deep Rising, which does sound a little bit scary. The other ones, I mean, the Jungle Book, you know, so it's clearly the mummy. Yeah. Yeah. The Jungle Book in 1994.

Lily: 9:15

What did he do on the Jungle Book?

James: 9:16

Well, he didn't, he's not the animator visually, but one of the horrific live action remakes that occasionally gets done.

Lily: 9:22

Okay, fine, fine, fine,

James: 9:24

the point is, I think he was a journeyman director who started out on smaller stuff in 1989. He's worked his way up the ladder, and then The Mummy, I think, was his first significant budgeted film.

Lily: 9:35

And, for me as a, watching this as a child, Even though I love that film, I also found it incredibly traumatizing because up until that point, I'd never found anything as harrowing as the scene where Imhotep is risen from the dead and then has to go and collect organs to replace his own. ripping out. The tongue and eyes of a particular unsuspecting American. And it's just, the way that whole thing is filmed, how he loses his glasses so he's sort of, you know, he's disabled in that moment and then this happens to him and then they go back for more. It is so so harrowing watching that. He's so sort of vulnerable that it really, it, it really, really disturbed me. I actually watched The Mummy Returns first. I came to these, really?

James: 10:23

Yeah, I saw, I saw The Mummy Returns in the cinema, but I hadn't seen The Mummy. And I remember thinking it feels like a classic sequel, where everything's a bit bloated, a bit too long. And then when I watched The Mummy, I was like, yeah, The Mummy's tighter. the ideas are much more sharp. They've just repeated it again in the sequel, I felt.

Lily: 10:41

Well, you know what? In my memory, The Mummy Returns is just as good, just as solid. But actually, I was just watching The Mummy Returns just now before we started this to kind of refresh my memory. And whereas The Mummy, I remember that movie beat for beat. I could literally quote you the whole movie. The Mummy Returns, actually a lot of it I'd forgotten. So, I, I think actually, um, As a kid, I probably did watch The Mummy more and more times, which does speak to the fact that it was a much better film, because you're right, it, but it, it does do a good job of kind of expanding the same world, which I, like all the main characters are the same, which is quite pleasing, but yeah, you're right, it's not nearly as good, but, Watching The Mighty Returns, really enjoying it, and then going on to, going back to watch The Mummy. I remember actually the first time watching it and seeing this, horror scene, essentially, thinking, Oh God, I've made a huge mistake, this is so scary! And like, cowering in a corner. Literally, I was like, Oh my God, oh my God! So I think,

James: 11:40

We need, we, we need to watch, we need to watch horror films Zilli cause neither of us watch horror. We need to watch some awful, terrifying

Lily: 11:48

a sidebar, but you know how I said to you the other, you mentioned the vanishing, and I was like, oh yeah. The, the Loos is the, or the name in Dutch for it. This Dutch horror movie. well then I, I don't know you, maybe you already know this, but I saw, I saw on Instagram that apparently Stanley Kubrick called it the most terrifying movie he's ever watched.

James: 12:08

No, I did not know that.

Lily: 12:09

So we have got to watch this movie. This is, we're just having a production meeting in the middle of this episode. It's cool, it's cool. But yes, back to this. So my point is simply like, it tracks that Stephen Sommers made a successful horror movie before The Mummy because the horror elements are very, very strong in this film. I would say, even though it is, yes, a kid's film, it's very much family entertainment. Those bits really,

James: 12:29

yeah. But

Lily: 12:30

so scary and exciting.

James: 12:32

Exactly, that's the kind of, to me, that's the kind of scares you want in a family film or like in the cinema. You want everybody kind of screeching a little bit, cuddling up to your mummy and dad, you know, a little terrified, but kind of ultimately, you know, it's all going to work out all right, you know. See what I did there? Well, you know, you know, it's the kind of, the kind of scares that I think they're, they're, they're in the acceptable parameter of scares you can give kids as in they're going to give them nightmares, but there's no graphic blood and guts. And, throughout the entire film, you don't really see any blood or violence. it's. Kind of well done in that you get the impression of scares and you get the impression of horror like the guy who has His tongue and eyes removed, but you know, we're not actually seeing these things depicted on screen It's just the things are implied. there's lots of dark spooky camera angles things like that

Lily: 13:20

Yes. Totally. Agreed.

James: 13:22

Well, I mean my question is how did this fall on the lap of Lily Jane Austen? How did you you know, how did you discover this film?

Lily: 13:31

okay, now, now the, uh, Comfort Watch episode is coming back to me because I think I have actually shared this story before. So, so please guys skip on if, if, if this is a repetition, but I'll keep it brief. It was going to Universal Studios and walking through the Mummy Returns walk. It's like a walk through. experience with live actors and I was completely traumatized. I twisted my mum's hand so tightly it was like she thought she'd fractured it. Like I was, I was, I was so, so scared. Which obviously then made me want to watch the movie. And from there, my love affair with these movies kind of began because then subsequently watch the mummy returns, really enjoyed that. Then went back to the mummy. Enjoy that even more clearly. And then the following year, I believe, so it was 1999. The mummy comes out huge, huge hair. In fact, it actually apparently basically saved universal because they'd had a series of flops up in the years prior and the mummy was a huge hit. it was 116. 6 million in today's money. That was the budget and it made 771. 5 million internationally.

James: 14:44

Interestingly, you've flagged up the budget cause I did that. And I also think like you did, I put it through the inflation calculator. So I was like, and then he's just like, holy shit, that's a, you know, that's money well spent, you know, let's look at the budget of that. Terrible Indiana Jones and the dial of destiny film from last year. That was 325 million. And I don't know if anyone's actually had the horror of having to sit through all of it. I've watched like half an hour and had to duck out, but it doesn't look like it costs 325 million. It looks cheap.

Lily: 15:13

Yeah. Cause it's true. The film, it looks expensive. I think like it looks pretty well made. Like it does feel very fantasy costume trauma in a way, I was thinking a lot. This weekend in anticipation of this episode about why exactly do I love, and many people really, really love this film. Why does it hit the mark? Because apparently when it was first, it, in production, this mummy remake, as we'll go into, for like nine years, with various scripts being put together and not, and not coming off, and then finally it was made. And the general vibe was that. Audiences don't want to see a mummy movie, that sounds pretty naff. But, immediately people, when audiences watched it and saw trays for it, they were in, they were hooked. And I think it's because, yes it's very well made, but also, it does the ancient Egypt thing very well. Not, not well in the sense of like, historical accuracy, or in terms of it's, it's use or, or really, lack of use of Egyptian actors. That is all terrible, and very much in keeping with 1999's. Time period. It is slightly baffling, you know, that we have an Israeli playing the leader of the Medjay. I've got an Indian American actor playing like another Egyptian. It's like let's choose people from everywhere on the planet apart from the country they're actually meant to be from. And I'm not talking about sort of fantasy age in Egypt. They're meant to be set in the quote unquote, like contemporary world of like 1923. So I do think it's, look, it's a great cast. Don't get me wrong, but it is slightly insane.

James: 16:49

yeah, I think the casting is just as insane as the historical accuracy. I think it's kind of like, if you had Egyptian actors, and it would almost add A level of credibility to proceedings that would almost work against how ridiculous it is.

Lily: 17:05

That's a very fair point. But actually, what I was gonna say in terms of the Egyptian, quote unquote, history of the film, is that, yeah, I mean, completely, historically inaccurate, but it very much appeals, I think, to our nostalgia for our history lessons as a child, right? Because you Egyptians, I was, I was explaining this to my, uh, to my boyfriend at the weekend, who is Italian. So.

James: 17:31

official.

Lily: 17:33

I was on the podcast and I was like, in Britain as kids, our history lessons start with the ancients. So we learn about Egypt when we're very little. So it's this kind of, simplified but also it's made very exciting the, like, history of ancient Egypt. And I feel like this film really like. goes deep on that. they did have an Egyptian expert, an Egyptologist called Dr. Stuart Tyson Smith, who they consulted. And it's like, they pull out names and places and various bits that are actually accurate. Like Imhotep was a real, kind of apothecary or something, but then put it in a completely different mix it up and make it into this very exciting and completely inaccurate version. And I love it.

James: 18:17

did a little bit of digging into the kind of background it's a universal property that was made in 1932 as the Mummy with Boris Karloff, an actor famed for playing kind of monster and spooky parts. And so I watched a bit of that. I didn't watch it all because Bloody slow, you know, by modern standards, but, what really, interested me was the origin of the entire story. Wasn't even based on anything to do with Egypt. It was by, um, well, it was coauthored by, Nina Wilcox Putnam, she was an author who wrote books and plays, but she also, did spec outlines for script ideas for films. And, uh, she was inspired by a real life Italian magician. and kind of, like, like an eccentric, personality was also involved heavily with, uh, the Freemasons, but inspired by his life, the. Put an outline together, set in San Francisco, about a 3000 year old magician who survives by injecting nitrates. And somebody at Universal they saw that and they're like, you know what? If we just change it from San Francisco to Egypt and we change everything a bit apart from basically the idea that somebody stays alive thousands of years. Now, I skipped through the, uh, universal remake at the moment. What's fascinating is the bits that are the same. I mean, most of it is very different, but, the design of, uh, Imhotep. Exactly the same in the mummy clothes, exactly the same.

Lily: 19:40

do you mean? That, as in in bandages? Not his thong?

James: 19:45

yeah, he's bandages. He's bandages. You know, when you see him in the mummy form, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, you know, the actual physical mummy look, but what happens in the Universal version? Very quickly, The mummy just becomes a regular guy and calls himself by a different name. I mean, he's got like a crazy face, but he just goes around like acting as if he's just one of the regular guys there. So, so that's very much changed. But the point is the idea is he's been alive for thousands of years. And so the same thing in the mummy where you kind of get this ghostly presence of Imhotep until he's properly resurrected and he's hanging around. So that's where the genesis of the, basically a character who's around Thousands of years came from a magician who's 3000 years old, got changed into an Egyptian character and you have the mummy. So the mummy is based on something that isn't even to do with Egyptian story, the fundamental basis of it, which I found fascinating.

Lily: 20:40

That is insane. I'm sorry.

James: 20:43

Yeah,

Lily: 20:44

Like,

James: 20:44

It's absolutely mad.

Lily: 20:46

and I mean, I'm so glad for that evolution, but so what's he's like doing normal things? Is he, what's he, is he, is it being played for laughs that he's can't really acclimatize to contemporary life or what's the deal?

James: 20:59

It's the same kind of ultimate story of trying to get re Reunited with his lost love who died thousands of years ago. and much like in The Mummy, it's the central female character in the 1932 version, who is meant to be the reincarnated version of this woman, or, she's somehow going to be sacrificed. And, you know, so she's key to it as well.

Lily: 21:19

Okay. So I want to move on to talking about the other films in the franchise, the children of the title. but before we do that, I just have to give a special mention to John Hannah for playing Rachel Weisz's best friend. you guys will know him from Four Weddings and a Funeral and from Sliding Doors, of course. He's so, so funny.

James: 21:38

drunk acting.

Lily: 21:39

Excellent drunk acting. Excellent comic relief. And, I just love, again, I feel like it really does contextualize this film in the late 90s for all the, American, British, love hate tension. Which actually I think comes from the fact that Rachel Weisz was cast in the role. Like she hadn't really been in much before that. She was kind of unknown in Hollywood, but they loved her and cast her. And then from there it was like, okay, so we need a Brit to play her brother. This is a rich scene. We can have lots of fun with that. And I love it. I think it works really well considering it's set after, after World War I. And there are quite a few references to that.

James: 22:16

and Yeah, and obviously we haven't even really touched upon, uh, Brendan Fraser, really. I mean, he's so charismatic. This is just like the definitive role for him. You know, he plays to all of his strengths. He's just a, it's a joy to watch him on screen.

Lily: 22:29

yeah, charisma is the word, charisma and sex appeal. There's a meme that's that you sometimes come across if like me, you're a fan of The Mummy that talks about The Mummy is my sexuality and it's just a picture of Brendan Fraser, Rachel Vice Arnold DVOs, who plays Emma t and An Knocks in a Moon, who's played by Patricia. Val Quez. I'm sorry if I mispronounce that because they're all so sexy. You've got Imit in a thong. Anuksa and Amun in this kind of mesh bodysuit thing. And then

James: 22:58

Not much, basically.

Lily: 22:59

barely anything, just like body paint essentially. And Rachel Weisz in these like, kind of bodices and little like, lacy nightdresses all the time. And then Brendan Fraser

James: 23:09

Weisz just

Lily: 23:10

yeah, go on.

James: 23:11

essaying in just the, the definitive sexy librarian. I mean, come on.

Lily: 23:16

Yeah, exactly. Art of affection. And then, yeah, to top it all off, Brendan Fraser looking like an even better Indiana Jones,

James: 23:24

Ooh.

Lily: 23:25

is that controversial to say? I think he's way better. Okay. So, We now must talk about what became the Mummy franchise, because I have strong feelings about this. I know when we've originally just talked about watching the movies, you said, okay, so are we going to watch the Mummy 1, And I was like, absolutely no way, because the third Mummy movie does not count. the true trilogy is the Mummy, the Mummy Returns and the Scorpion King.

James: 23:54

Wow,

Lily: 23:54

have you watched the Scorpion King?

James: 23:56

I haven't watched Scorpion King. It didn't appeal at all. I mean, does it, Does it broaden the, the mythology?

Lily: 24:04

no, definitely not.

James: 24:08

So, okay. how does it earn its place in the trilogy? I think is the better question, isn't it? So Mummy 1 and 2, I get it, but the Scorpion King feels like a spinoff to one side. So how are you factoring that in as a trilogy?

Lily: 24:20

Well, because the other mummy movies are so terrible. They can't possibly be included in the top three.

James: 24:26

Right. Oh, and you need a third, right? Okay. Okay.

Lily: 24:29

no, I really enjoy the Scorpion King because it. For, okay, well, the Mummy Returns is actually The Mummy versus The Scorpion King. So it's a significant, significant movie because it's Dwayne Johnson's first role as an actor. Okay, so we have the mummy franchise to thank for the glittering career that Dwayne Johnson has had. In fact, he was still called The Rock in this movie and The Scorpion King. If you see the poster for The Scorpion King, it's,

James: 25:01

Oh,

Lily: 25:02

The Rock, The Scorpion King. So this is how early back we're going and, and you know what? It really I think it, it does indicate his, his, uh, growth as an actor because I wouldn't say these are the most, three dimensional performances, but, I think. There is something very pleasing about how The Scorpion King just, it's like, it takes away all the stuff that's really, really great about The Mummy, the way that we have these flashbacks to ancient times, and then we come forward to the 20s and 30s, it does away with all that, no, no, we're just going to go back 5, 000 years and watch essentially a buddy comedy about a man kidnapping a sorceress, it feels like, It walked so Game of Thrones could run, or did it run so Game of Thrones could walk, I'm never sure which way around the expression is, but it has that kind of, barbarians, women who have powers being subjugated, but then falling in love with their captor. it's quite trashy, but it's kind of great.

James: 26:01

so is in the Scorpion King film, is the Scorpion King like a quippy, heroic, like a bit like essentially another central action comic? Oh, right. Cause I thought, cause he was in the Scorpion King. He's a, you know, he's like a Scorpion King badass end boss monster. Is this how, how he became like

Lily: 26:18

Exactly, exactly, exactly. So yeah, he, at that point, he's just very, very good at fighting and he's part of a troop of people who are like hired to do battles and then he does a good job, a lot, it's a story of him doing a great job and then ultimately becoming the Scorpion King, essentially.

James: 26:39

Well, okay. So did you see this at the cinema?

Lily: 26:42

No, I saw it on, on tape from Blockbuster. I don't think it would have been, would it have been DVD in 2002? I have a feeling it was.

James: 26:52

Yeah, transition time, transition time. Like, like I got my first DVD player in 2001, but it costs 300 quid. So

Lily: 26:58

I don't think I was like you ahead of the curve. I feel like we weren't early

James: 27:03

be probably still tape.

Lily: 27:05

I think it was tape. I think it was tape. And yeah, and again, you know what, I remembered this movie. I watched a bit of it today as well to refresh my memory, and I remember it even less than The Mummy Returns. So I think actually it is quite a bad film, but there is something in it. There's something enjoyable there. Whereas we, after that, we go on to there being the third in the Mummy series, Tomb of the Dragon Emperor, which I was quite shocked to see is set in China.

James: 27:29

Even at the time when it was announced, I just remember thinking something about this feels off and the fact that they didn't get Rachel Weisz

Lily: 27:35

Uh, it's Brent, but

James: 27:37

Yeah.

Lily: 27:38

it.

James: 27:38

Brendan's in it. Yeah. and when you subsequently read articles like more recently of Brendan Fraser talking about his career, he does talk about how his body was absolutely taped together. He says by, for the third one, because mummy one and two, he'd done a lot of his own stunt work. And he says it's before he said basically his body took a lot of impact. And so he said he was kind of in bits. And so doing the third one, it was just painful for him. so like It just wasn't, just nothing about it sounds good, you know, and it wasn't Stephen Summers, or they had a producer credit, so it was a different director. so yeah, I've never fancied it.

Lily: 28:12

Why did he do his own stunt work?

James: 28:15

I think, you know, male action hero actors, they either want to do it or they're probably encouraged to do it. Cause, you know, you want, you want to believe that that is your star on the screen. The other thing is. It was the 90s, Lily. Like, oh my God. Watching the stunt work in this film, it's incredible. you know, that opening sequence with the horses The horses are going down and the horse has been trained to go down. So those falls are rehearsed and trained. The horses aren't being, tripped over. But then the stuntmen off the top of that are tumbling off a horse that's running at full speed. You would never do those stunts nowadays. So the point is, I think, I'm making is that you. Stunts were more dangerous. I think it was probably the tail end of just like quite intense, reckless stunt tipping. So, so that was it really.

Lily: 28:57

Well, that actually smoothly moves us on to It's not the fourth, I guess, but it's kind of a reboot. It's 2017's The Mummy starring the stump man du jour, Tom Cruise. I was really, I didn't know any, I somehow missed this completely because when I was looking to watch The Mummy, I was like, Oh, Chekhov, it's on Netflix. And I was like, what the fuck? What is, what is this, Tom Cruise, what are you doing here? So confusing.

James: 29:25

yeah, again, universal. Cause they've got the right for summary because I don't know what it is. they've got the rights to the mummy, but you know, I'm sure we could make our own film set in Egypt with mummies in, but this particular story, I don't quite get it anyway. But the point is they decided they were going to make it

Lily: 29:41

James, that's not do

James: 29:42

right.

Lily: 29:42

Yeah.

James: 29:45

other ideas before we get to our own mummy riff. but, but the thing is, this was Universal trying to get in on the old Cinematic Universe gravy trade, which is currently crashing and burning really hard. But the mummy, you know, Crashed and burned before it even got going. So it was meant to set up a universe of connected stories where the, they even announced the cast. So I know that Javier Bardem was meant to play Frankenstein's monster. Um, uh, Johnny, yeah, they had a photo call. You can find it of all of the actors. Like it was all officially announced. This wasn't like rumored.

Lily: 30:17

dark universe.

James: 30:19

the Dark Universe, yeah. Which is still going by the way, so the new Universal Studios that's opening up opposite Disneyland or Disney World in America, that's got a Dark Universe section, so they're still going with that idea. But it's not films, it's just like, here, come and see The Mummy, come and see Dracula, all that kind of stuff. Um, probably Haunted House but they had, russell Crowe playing Dr. Van Helsing. and he was gonna be like the mastermind who brings all the different people together. And Johnny Depp was the invisible man. All that kind of stuff.

Lily: 30:47

But that, I think that film was made, wasn't it? Oh no.

James: 30:50

no, no, they made an Invisible Man film. No, it did. There's been Invisible Man films, but not this specific dark universe one that was meant to be all tied together. But they did the classic thing of, they decide that they're going to make a universe rather than, which I would recommend you make one film and you make that really good and you wait and see if the audience buy it and instead they're like, we've already got this universe, you're going to love it.

Lily: 31:14

Well yeah, because I mean, that's the thing. The mummy on paper. doesn't set the original mummy, well not the original, the 1999 mummy on paper. Doesn't sound like a particularly great film, but it was so well written, so well put together. Every, it just, it zips along. It's quite a convoluted story, but they managed to tell it in a really clever way to make you just go with it and you're not bothered about that and you, and it's, and it's fun and fantastical.

James: 31:37

it's, great rom pad blast.

Lily: 31:40

And so off the back of that, they could then do these follow up films that did pretty well. Like, The Mummy Returns and The School Thing King both did pretty well. Okay, it starts to lose its way, but solid way to make a franchise essentially, it's like this unexpected, huge, huge hit, okay, let's see what else we can do. But this whole dark universe concept, because none of these are related, at least with superheroes, I feel like that there's, there's, there's some kind of internal logic I get the sense of with, with these different characters, right?

James: 32:09

I mean, back in the day, I do know that they used to have monster team ups. So you'd have Bela Lugosi, who was famed for playing Dracula in multiple movies. And they'd have like Bela Lugosi meets the wolf man. And the wolf man would be played by Lon Chaney, the man with a thousand faces. He was like, He was innovative in his use of makeup and prosthetics, but they didn't announce them as like a 10 year project. You know, this was like, like films used to be when they weren't right. We're going to have a universe and we've already mapped it all out. Make one film, put all your effort into one film.

Lily: 32:41

I mean, I was a bit confused by this, and actually people on Reddit are also confused by it, but apparently the budget for the 2017 version was like around 195 mil, and it grossed 409 mil worldwide at the box office, but that was still considered a flop, they still lost like 95 mil because of high production costs, I'm a bit confused about these numbers.

James: 33:07

The other thing that I'm, you know, now we're getting into numbers, right? So obviously we all know the marketing spend is usually double, although I think when we get into 200 million films, I don't think they spend 200 million. I think it's about 100, 150 million max they spend on marketing. But what you've got to remember is, The studio don't get every dollar that comes into the box office. They get like 50 or 30 percent of that. So the other 50 to 60 percent goes to the, goes to the cinemas. So even if you've made, even if it says the box office receipts are 400 million, well, the studio, if they're lucky, they'll make 200 million of that. When you budget start getting to like 200 million, it's a lot to try and make back to start making money.

Lily: 33:44

So basically after that, the whole Dark Universe was pretty much scrapped. That was the end of the story. But at least we still have the mummy and the mummy returns. And I would argue the Scorpion King to, to enjoy.

James: 33:57

I might have to pop on the, the Scorpion King, uh, at some point in the future, then, we'll see, we'll see.

Lily: 34:02

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't, like, implore you to go and watch again, because I did remember it as being a lot stronger than it turned out to be on, on viewing today, but, there's something very pleasing about watching Dwayne Johnson in an early role where they clearly are trying to keep his dialogue to a minimum because the line delivery is not his strong suit, he's now one of our most bankable stars and I, I, no, no, you're

James: 34:29

is losing. He's like, Oh my God, he's losing so much money. He's like, he's like anti bankable. Like he's

Lily: 34:35

Oh, okay. Sorry. I'm a bit late to the party. He was at some stage. Very bang.

James: 34:40

yeah, no, no, I mean, I mean, no, you're quite right. I mean, it's only'cause I watch random YouTube videos about all sorts of stuff, and one of them was about the career of Dwayne Johnson, but he's basically just being the past five to seven years, like that black Adam thing was a huge bomb. And he's just, he's kind of devalued himself because, you know, you're only gonna get paid 25 million a film if your films are making lots of money. So he's going to, he's started to do smaller films again,'cause I think he needs to build his profile back up.

Lily: 35:07

Okay, well, I mean, actually The Scorpion King was a relatively small film and I would argue, as I keep arguing and then backing out, a triumph. So I look forward to seeing him in these smaller roles, maybe he could do something very interesting with that. Alright, shall we take a trip to the film pharmacy?

James: 35:24

Absolutely. Yes, please. Hi, Lily and James. I used to say American Beauty was my favourite film. So did I, by the way. Um, but I've changed that since the facts about Kevin Spacey came out. However, I feel like the writing is wonderful, if a little controversial, and I admire the direction, art direction, and characters. Obviously, hundreds of people put work into a film, not just the lead actor, but inevitably, a film is often tarred by one person's involvement. Can you separate the art from the artist? P. S. My actual favorite film is Magnolia. Great question. And I was literally talking about this, this specific thing yesterday. Literally Kevin Spacey's American Beauty. Because American Beauty is one of my all time favorite films. And, I haven't rewatched it since the allegations and then the court case came out. I know he's now being found not guilty, but I'm just, I'm not running back to watching American beauty.

Lily: 36:18

I'll tell you a quick anecdote relating to Kevin Spacey. so I was meant to go see, how to have sex. I think it was, it's called a film that came out last year. Um, that that was called, did you see it? Okay. I didn't manage to get to the cinema to see it because I think I'd work or something came up, so I couldn't make it. So. But my friends went, someone took my ticket and it was, they were seeing it at, the Genesis in Stepney Green in London. And when they get there, they're like, queues of people, loads of people around, all this fuss. It turns out that it's a red carpet event for a movie that's coming out with Kevin Spacey doing the voiceover in it. And it was meant to be at the Prince Charles, but when the Prince Charles got wind of the fact that Kevin Spacey had a role in the movie, he's not actually in the movie, it's just his voice. They last minute cancelled and so the, PR of the film had to quickly cobble together another play. So they choose a Genesis, which is a great cinema, but it's not really like, you know, it's not in central London. It's not really red carpet ready. And they put out a press release saying like, Oh, we found a much more appropriate cinema venue for our, for the event we're putting on this evening. So definitely I would say that yes, the court of public opinion is still very much in the camp of Kevin Spacey is cancelled. But it's interesting because I don't feel like Hollywood and the kind of the industry necessarily is always on the same page. Like they're always just like when it comes to certain actors, particularly, I would say male actors have a particular caliber of star or like level of stardom. It's like, let's just, let's just try again. Let's just check. How's he doing? Let's give him a role. So what do you think? Can you separate the art from the artist?

James: 38:10

I don't think so. Art is something that is created by somebody and so that art is connected to them, isn't it? It's, you can't just put a slice down the middle of it. the two things are connected. So I don't know. Yeah. I find it difficult to, to, to separate the two things. There's enough art in the world of different types, there's enough actors in the world, there's enough films in the world that I can let certain actors and films go. I don't need to feel, um, like I need to support them as artists. Because of their actions.

Lily: 38:41

Yeah, I feel, I agree with you. I agree with you. I feel like, yeah, Woody Allen. was, and is, in some sense, a very important filmmaker to me, but after all of those allegations and everything that has come out about him, I just don't want to watch his films. And luckily, they're quite rubbish these days, so it's not, it doesn't, it makes it slightly easier. And just to finish by that PS saying my actual favourite film is Magnolia. Excellent choice. That's one of my favourite films too. I think possibly Paul Thomas Anderson's best film. Definitely up there. So there's a recommendation for you guys if you haven't seen it already.. Alright, so after that dicey end to a fabulous episode of Groovy Movies, thank you so much guys for listening.

James: 39:30

Absolutely. And if you could find your way to leaving us a like or giving us a review, uh, we would really appreciate it. It helps get our podcast out to a bigger audience.

Lily: 39:37

So we'll see you in two weeks time. Bye!

James: 39:40

Bye.