Discover the heartbeat of Lutheran leadership and governance through the eyes of Pastor Mike Bradley from the Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ. This episode promises to unravel the complexities of church structure with a candid look into LCMC's approach that emphasizes a humble, service-oriented leadership style and a strong commitment to scriptural and confessional foundations. We'll delve into the rich blend of confessional, evangelical, and charismatic elements that define the LCMC, and how this unique mix impacts the health and vitality of its congregations.
Navigating the intricacies of pastoral conduct, our conversation shifts to the delicate procedures in place for addressing any missteps within the LCMC. Pastor Mike provides an insider's perspective on fostering resolution through relational conversations, steering clear of accusatory measures that often do more harm than good. The episode also peels back the curtain on the rigorous process for certifying pastors and welcoming new congregations, ensuring that leaders are not only well-vetted but also align with the association's core values and practices.
Finally, we bridge the distance between ancient faith and modern science as Pastor Mike enlightens us on the intriguing intersection of brain science and Lutheran values. Explore with us how the latest discoveries in neuroscience can enlighten and enhance our spiritual practices and leadership approaches. The Leader Care Initiative is particularly highlighted for its holistic strategy in nurturing leaders through emotional, mental, physical, relational, and spiritual development. Join us for this enriching journey that promises to deepen your understanding of Lutheran governance and inspire your faith.
Visit uniteleadership.org
Discover the heartbeat of Lutheran leadership and governance through the eyes of Pastor Mike Bradley from the Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ. This episode promises to unravel the complexities of church structure with a candid look into LCMC's approach that emphasizes a humble, service-oriented leadership style and a strong commitment to scriptural and confessional foundations. We'll delve into the rich blend of confessional, evangelical, and charismatic elements that define the LCMC, and how this unique mix impacts the health and vitality of its congregations.
Navigating the intricacies of pastoral conduct, our conversation shifts to the delicate procedures in place for addressing any missteps within the LCMC. Pastor Mike provides an insider's perspective on fostering resolution through relational conversations, steering clear of accusatory measures that often do more harm than good. The episode also peels back the curtain on the rigorous process for certifying pastors and welcoming new congregations, ensuring that leaders are not only well-vetted but also align with the association's core values and practices.
Finally, we bridge the distance between ancient faith and modern science as Pastor Mike enlightens us on the intriguing intersection of brain science and Lutheran values. Explore with us how the latest discoveries in neuroscience can enlighten and enhance our spiritual practices and leadership approaches. The Leader Care Initiative is particularly highlighted for its holistic strategy in nurturing leaders through emotional, mental, physical, relational, and spiritual development. Join us for this enriching journey that promises to deepen your understanding of Lutheran governance and inspire your faith.
Visit uniteleadership.org
I think you're really going to like this conversation today with Pastor Mike Bradley. Many of you have heard of the LCMC the Lutheran Congregations and Mission for Christ and Mike serves as the National Service Coordinator. If you're a part of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, it's the equivalent of being a president for over 1,000 congregations. But the humility of Jesus is just all over this man and it's kind of baked into even the structures of the LCMC in general and I want to dismiss a midway point of the conversation I feel compelled to say I'm not joining the LCMC. Our congregation is a proud member in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, just praying for a new day, praying for humility and big vision to reach those who don't know Jesus, and that's exactly what the LCMC is getting after as well. So I hope you enjoy this conversation with Mike. Mike Bradley, the National Service Coordinator for the LCMC. Service coordinator for the LCMC.
Speaker 2:This is Lead Time.
Speaker 1:Getting to hang out with Pastor Mike Bradley today Such a joy and tell us how you became, Mike, to be the national service coordinator for the Lutheran Congregations and Mission for Christ, the LCMC. Now, for those of you who may not know, the National Service Coordinator for us, if we're in the Lutheran Church of Missouri Synod, it's like the president of the synod, but you guys do things a little bit different in the LCMC and I think there's some things we can learn from you today. So tell the story of how you became the National Service Coordinator, Mike. Thanks for hanging with us, brother. What?
Speaker 3:a joy. Yeah, it's great to be with you and Jack and everybody who's watching. Let me see if I can give you the short version. Lcmc was established in 2001. And right out of the chute, some of our members had had less than positive experiences with bishops in the past and they wanted to make sure that whoever served in the position I'm in had a heart to serve and was there to serve leaders and members. So they came up with the title Service Coordinator. And about three and a half years ago the present service coordinator decided to retire and a call committee for the association reached out to me and said we'd like you to apply for the position. And at the time I was 68 years old. And I got back to him after praying about it and said well, I know three reasons that you should not call me.
Speaker 3:And they disagreed with all three reasons I gave them, and God seemed to affirm to my wife and I that, yeah, this is a call at this time of life, and so I've been in this position for about three and a half years now.
Speaker 1:So how did the LCMC come to be? Give a little bit more of the origin story of the LCMC, Mike Sure.
Speaker 3:So most of the LCMC congregations came out of what we know as the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, generally speaking, the churches who started the association. There were 27 congregations. We're now a little over 1,000. But those 27 really wanted to be rooted in Scripture, in a more conservative, traditional sense of that, and in the Lutheran confessions. They felt that our previous body had become a little bit more liberal than what they were comfortable with and finally decided we need to start something new in order to maintain our DNA of being rooted in the scriptures and in the Lutheran confessions.
Speaker 3:It's an association that has three streams. This is an overgeneralization, of course, but three streams that kind of flow into and impact us. And one might be the confessional stream, that Lutheran confessional identity. Another would be evangelical. We love to share the story of Jesus and our own God stories. And then what some might call a charismatic stream that's a word that has some baggage to it, that's not always helpful, but a belief that the Holy Spirit he is alive and well today grows us in the fruit of the Spirit and gives us spiritual gifts to serve the Lord. So that's a little bit of the early history and DNA of who we are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's good. Talk about your structure too, because it's a very different. Many of our listeners are a part of Lutheran Church Missouri Synod 35 districts, district presidents, a national kind of headquarters with a whole bunch of kind of RSOs, recognized service organizations. I mean the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod is a large and complex kind of polity. Our ecclesiology is therefore a little bit messy and we're trying to work it Very thick.
Speaker 1:Bylaws, yeah, very, very thick. And our synod convention, you know, our conflict resolution bylaws, for goodness sake, are like 40 pages. It's like it's very, very we're we're trying to work out kind of, are we congregational or are we? Are we like Rome a little bit with these kind of heavy hierarchy structures? And I would say right now we're a little bit of both. And so there's naturally some confusion and some tension that exists there. And some of that tension is a good thing, to be sure, because it keeps us, because we're not falling off on the far left side right now in the LCMS. We may be falling off on the pharisaical side a little bit in terms of our bylaws and the way we kind of organize ourselves and the hierarchy structures, but nonetheless your structure is very, very different in the LCMC. So talk about how you're organized, mike, or not.
Speaker 3:Sure, the first thing I want to be quick to share is we are structured differently than LCMS or ELCA or some others. I don't know that it's necessarily better than Any structure that any church body has denomination or association ultimately is only going to be as good as its leaders are healthy.
Speaker 3:And just because somebody is a Christian leader does not mean he or she is healthy emotionally, relationally or spiritually. So I just want to say that, want to say that when we were formed back in 2001, we wanted to try to be congregationally focused, meaning for us. We believe that the life and heartbeat of who we were is in congregations. So how can we best support congregations Instead of telling congregations here's who you'll be, ask them, who do you think God's calling you to be and how can we help you experience that? Toward that end, we made some decisions that we still live out today, and there's some positives and some weak sides to these decisions. We decided first of all we're always going to have a small staff, association staff. Part of the reason for that is we wanted to keep as much of the finances a congregation has in the congregation to support their own staff and ministry and mission in their community and worldwide. We also decided we do not want to own property as an association. That's why there's no LCMC headquarters. That's why the LCMC home office is here in my office in my home in Gilbert, arizona, and the other five association staff members live in different parts of the country and we work well in that sense. But we also make sure to get together for three days at a time, four or five or six times a year, so we can be in the same room, growing in our relationship with each other. We also recognize that if we were going to have a small staff to help congregations with all the needs that a congregation has you mentioned conflict resolution earlier or how do you, where do you find and call a new pastor? Where do you find a seminary? How about youth ministry, children's ministry, men, women's ministry, that kind of thing the thought was we're going to, rather than have a national association that takes care of those things from top down, let's do a peer-to-peer networking of congregations in what we also call districts. That wasn't really followed up well in our early years and now suddenly we're not 27 congregations anymore, we're 1,000 with a staff of six. So we're playing catch up a little bit in developing our district structure and again, hopefully in a healthy peer-to-peer. Let's be there to help each other kind of way.
Speaker 3:And then the National Association, my staff and I how can we help, support and equip and network our district coordinator we call them district coordinators as well as the congregations. That has some strengths to it. Congregations. That has some strengths to it. It does avoid a kind of a heavy-handed top-down kind of bureaucracy, but it has some weaknesses to it in that, again, district coordinators or districts are only going to be as effective as those individuals who have those positions invest themselves and how healthy they are. The health of leadership is a big, big value for us and we're seeking to walk that out. How can we help our staff, our national board, which we have we have a national board that oversees the business of the association and then those district coordinators, as well as our pastors and lay leaders. How can we help, facilitate and encourage growth in emotional, relational and spiritual health?
Speaker 4:The association is funded by the congregations. Is that how it works, correct, correct. Yeah, voluntarily, and is this like an assessment, or is this like just gifts?
Speaker 3:They are just gifts. We don't have an assessment in terms of a percentage or for each member you have give a certain amount. We ask them to a really novel thought we came up with probably the first time ever in the history of the Christian church we ask them to pray.
Speaker 4:I'm sorry tongue-in-cheek. For listeners it's easy, as my lung, it's good.
Speaker 3:Mike, we asked them to pray in all seriousness. You know your needs as a congregation. We want you to be faithful, to support your staff. We don't want our pastors or youth ministers worship leaders. We don't want you getting as much out of them for the least dollar. We want you to be fair with them and loving with them. You know your mission needs and your ministry needs. In that context, what do you think the Lord would have you do in terms of supporting the association financially? And we don't apologize for asking them to support it. As one of our members put it, the association is a home for my congregation and it's a home that I can be proud of and that I'm loved in. And every home requires maintenance and it requires upkeep, which means finances. So that's kind of how we look at it.
Speaker 4:How many districts do you have right now?
Speaker 3:Right now we have eight districts but we probably need 12 to 15 here in the United States. 800 of our congregations roughly are in the United States. The other 200 plus are in 15 other countries around the world.
Speaker 4:Wow. The other 200 plus are in 15 other countries around the world, wow. So the structure and again, I know you're very congregationally focused, but it sounds like you have a national office and you have district service providers, correct? Do you divide anything below the district level?
Speaker 3:Then you go to congregation and what we kind of do, jack is you, so you've got association. People might look at it as kind of a pyramid an association, a district, and then congregations, and then we take that pyramid and we flip it upside down.
Speaker 1:I love that, skirting around the topic of the difference between power, coercion and the juxtaposition is invitation, yeah, is invitation, is voluntary, correct and I think for organizations to change and become just healthier relationally. Satan wants us to use power, jesus wants us to use invitation and deep relationship of mutual trust. But right now in your context when we had coffee, you kind of said you know we're kind of the exact opposite in many respects of the LCMS, but like we need to organize around certain words and what is the mission? That kind of in the network, in the wider network of the LCMC, that kind of norms us and and how how much freedom do you have as the National Service Coordinator to help develop in community, in relationship, those, those words, that mission and that vision for the LCMC. And you can get, because you're so like there's so much revulsion to power structure, control, hierarchy. You know there's this tendency. Can I actually do that? So the question is how do you balance the right amount of authority support without becoming authoritarian?
Speaker 3:I'd love to hear you just riff on that a little bit. By the way, he or she might be being naughty and usually it's a he, by the way, and I'm charged One of my responsibilities that I wanted when I came on. Another staff member was taking care of this, but when I became the service coordinator, I didn't want him having to worry about dealing with naughty pastors needing to exercise authority. I had other things I wanted him to focus on and give his energy to, things I wanted him to focus on and give his energy to. And so we have a protocol in place where I, along with one or two members of what we call our National Ministry Board so we have a National Board of Trustees that oversees the business of the association, the budget and those kinds of things. We have a National Ministry Board that deals with all things pastoral, continuing education for pastors and helping congregations call pastors and, if need be, entering into a situation where a pastor is misbehaving. And at that point, first and foremost, you try as best you can to base those discussions in relationship. Now, do I know every pastor in the thousand churches of our association no, I don't, but I'm trying to get to know as many and our district coordinators are getting to know them and and other of my staff members. But we hope that the first time we have a conversation isn't to deal with a situation of misbehavior. So in the context of a relationship, let's talk about this. Help me understand that's a question I ask a lot. Help me understand, rather than coming in with an accusation.
Speaker 3:And if it is apparent after a time of inquiry that a pastor has been misbehaving, we have to exercise that issue of authority. You were talking about Tim. We let him or her know. This has got to cease. Here's another way to do this.
Speaker 3:And if they refuse, we don't have a lot of power that we can exercise. But one thing we can. We have two things we can do. One is we can remove their certification, what that means for us, a certified pastor, someone who's been to seminary and has a master of divinity degree degree and we can remove that certification and let that pastor know. If you use us as a recommendation for another call, we will not be able to say that you are a pastor in good standing.
Speaker 3:If the situation is of such egregious behavior sexual predator, financial, not just impropriety, but criminal financial activity we will let a congregation know you need to remove this pastor Because the congregation and LCMC they have the authority to call whomever they want If the congregation refuses and we did have this happen once with a sexual predator if the congregation refuses, we can then remove the congregation from LCMC. In this case, that congregation chose to self-select and leave. So we try to operate in those areas where there is a need for authority, but not an authoritarian way. Hopefully, again out of that relational context and occasionally you have to set the boundary that for a lay leader as well as a pastor, you can't do this.
Speaker 4:So congregations, in your context, they can just decide to leave the association if they feel it's not a fit for them anymore.
Speaker 3:Yes, they can't. It's hard in and easy out.
Speaker 4:Gotcha. What does the hard in process look like?
Speaker 3:We have a protocol in place where we get a number of applications each month from congregations, and a congregation might send an application and they might come from four or five different church bodies or they're a church plant and we want to be part of LCMC.
Speaker 3:One of the first steps is I then schedule a Zoom video or, if I'm nearby, go visit the congregational leadership and the pastor or pastors and again tell me your story and why LCMC, and what questions can I try to answer for you about who we are. And then here's some things I have to share with you about life in LCMC. Here's what that means. And then I write up a report that I send with their application to our board of trustees, and they may come back with certain questions and it may call for a second meeting for me with with that congregation to follow up. And then the board ultimately has the. They have the authority to accept, defer or decline an application, and recently we did decline one. It doesn't happen often, but there were serious enough grounds to say no to a particular congregation.
Speaker 1:So this is wonderful. I feel like I have to say this right now Christ Greenfield, the church at which I pastor and this is no offense to you, mike is not looking to join the LCMC, so you're not going to be seeing one of our applications coming through here.
Speaker 4:It's just very curious because it's a different world and it's fascinating to hear about. Yeah.
Speaker 1:No, there's no offense, so I just wanted to make that clear. I'm interested about certification of pastors. Who is at the table when certification takes place? Yeah?
Speaker 3:First of all about Christ Greenfield joining. I just want you to know that if they did I would be taking you to TPC Scottsdale golfing once a year in my treat. It's so funny we live in the same city.
Speaker 1:It's so funny we live in the same, the same city. Uh, it's so funny. So, anyway, even with that, as much as you know I love golf, Mike, even with that, uh, respectfully decline at this time whether you join that'd be fun in all seriousness.
Speaker 3:Um, so one of my staff members at just a wonderful young guy to me a young guy, I mean, he's in his 40s, I'm in my 70s, so everybody's young to me. Christian Huntley is our coordinator for leadership and pastoral development. So he's the guy that's not doing it all, but he's networking ministries and resources how can we provide continuing ed events for lay leaders and pastors? And he leads a team that will receive a request for certification in a similar way to a congregation making an application. They have a protocol that they go through involves a few different meetings and you know, tell us about your, your um background, tell us about your education, tell us about your MDiv and occasionally we'll have somebody coming into LCMC who's not from a Lutheran background.
Speaker 3:But again, our congregations can call whom they want and, of course, across the country right now there's a shortage of pastors for every denomination. Well, one of the things that really encourage our congregations are if you're going to call this guy or this gal and they're maybe coming out of a Christian missionary alliance background or whatever. Here are five Lutheran courses we need them to take and they're available at one of the seminaries we work with, usually even online we work with, usually even online. We need them to take this, we need them to know ahead of time. Here are some of the essentials of Lutheran theology that we think are biblical and we're not willing to compromise on, and you, as a congregation, we expect you to encourage this pastor to pursue those five classes.
Speaker 1:We can't force them to do that, but we encourage that, and ultimately, christian and his team will recommend somebody then for certification or not Just to be clear, christian and the team a lot of these leaders who are certifying are active pastors, like currently in congregations serving Correct?
Speaker 3:Yeah, every single one of them, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So in the LCMS, one of our areas for growth would be to have active pastors at the grassroots level a part of the certifying process In our denomination. It is a part of your residential seminary training or you've gone through one of the other paths, but those who are at the table, if you will, are a part of the institutions of Synod and her seminary. So that's one area of growth for us that I've written and spoken about extensively. I don't think I'm going to be invited on that team, and that's okay, but just like other pastors to maybe be at the table in diverse contexts. Let's talk about denomination in general.
Speaker 1:A lot of folks say mainline denomination, christian denominations they're declining. Why would you even align with, you know, a group? Let's just go non-denom, you know, let's just kind of elevate. And I think there's a propensity. Well, I think there's an evolution right now Nothing stays the same outside of the love of Jesus. I think there's an evolution in our younger followers of Jesus to say well, there's 2000 years of church history here and there's been a number of streams of thoughts, ebbs and flows, formations and reformations. Maybe there's something to those who have taught and those who have put together documents such as the Lutheran Confessions. So any thoughts on the role of Lutheranism, denominationalism, the role of Lutheranism in this post-Christian secular culture in which we find ourselves.
Speaker 3:Mike, you know, I do think the latest statistics I've seen do indicate that mainline denominations are declining in numbers. So you know that's probably a fact. And I think, first of all for denominations, we have not done ourselves a good service by beating up on each other. We have not done ourselves a good service by beating up on each other and I think followers of Jesus, and especially younger followers of Jesus it's kind of like the political wars that are out there these days too. It's such a polarizing experience that they see Lutherans bashing Baptist or Baptist bashing Assembly of God and and oh, by the way, jesus loves you and I don't think they're up for that.
Speaker 3:I think they're up for an honest discussion about. Here's why we have a Lutheran body, a Baptist body, an assembly of God. Here's some values we have. Here's some theological tenets we hold to. We respectfully disagree with or have a different take than our Assembly God sister, our Baptist brother, our Methodist cousin, whatever it might be. I think younger people will respect that. But the tenor in how we talk about those things is huge. I think some, it does seem. And just anecdotally, some of the young leaders I speak to and I'm an old youth pastor, 25 years, by the way, so I still love young people are still my favorite people group and my wife would tell you I'm immature enough to fit right in, fit right in and as I talk with them, they're not and this is just a general statement they're not so concerned about the brand on the door. Does it say Lutheran? Does it say Baptist? Does it say Assembly of God, methodist, whatever? But what are your values Relationally? What are your values? Is this going to be a safe place for me and for those who I know? Theologically? What are your values and why do you hold to those values and what difference do they make in my life and regarding some Lutheran values.
Speaker 3:Theologically, I think, if we are better at our messaging, they're very apropos today for life, ministry and mission. So, for instance, five solas of Lutheranism we have grace alone is one of those, you know. We have word alone, grace alone, faith alone. Well, grace alone is huge in a culture where people, christians and non-Christians alike are being told you got to do more and try harder, and they're just getting worn out. Christians are getting worn out, not yet Christians are getting worn out. And when we talk about sinner-saint that paradox that has some real-life applications to the person that says I'm so tired of making the New Year's resolution and then failing again, what is up with that and how does that work?
Speaker 3:And a word alone when we let the Word of God just be the Word of God and believe that through the Word God's going to accomplish what he wants to accomplish, those are all powerful, life-giving, hope-giving theological values. So I think if we, and if we communicate them, I think in a way that now be a good Lutheran, you know. Instead of that, just hey, here's what God's word says and here's what it can mean for your life, your ministry, your mission. I think that will be attractive when we do focus too much on the brand and become pharisaical, as you mentioned earlier, tim. I think it becomes odious and toxic and will drive people away from Jesus rather than drawing them toward.
Speaker 1:Well, if you can say, you can say the right thing in the wrong way yes, Right, yes, and I think that's kind of summarizing where Lutherans are struggling right now. Our messaging, I like that you use that right now. Our messaging, I like that you use that language. Our brand brand is what people?
Speaker 1:say about us when we're not in the room? What do they think about us? I think they're like man I'm going to draw a caricature. They're pretty bullish around the truth, you know, and if they sniff anything that's not true as they've defined. True, uh, hopefully, in the word of God they're, they're going to speak, they're going to speak into it, um, but I don't know that all of the well, social media has not helped. So social media gives equal voice to a lot of different people, and you can have the brand of Lutheran but come across like a clanging gong and not have love and charity.
Speaker 1:I'm just praying for leaders in the LCMS to have humility, to dream big dreams and to learn from a variety of different people. Wherever the Holy Spirit is, it is at work, within the church and outside of outside of the church. It's all the lords, by the way, uh, and and I I think right now, you know, um, we're, we're struggling with, with power and and, honestly, this is, this is the olive branch. I'd love to get your take on this. Your strength, if not handled and stewarded the right way, can be a weakness, and it goes the inverse. Your weakness what the world may say is actually weak could, in the appropriate context, be a strength. We need one another within the body of Christ Anything to speak about the humility of the leader at every different level. Mike.
Speaker 1:Well one of the first things.
Speaker 3:I'll say in response something you mentioned a little bit ago. I had a mentor who's with the Lord now, and one of the things he used to tell me was God's healing combination is grace and truth yeah, not one or the other. And grace informs where, when and how to share the truth. Yeah, and he would just drill that into me time and time again and I've been really blessed. Amongst all people, I've had some amazing mentors in my life. Two or three are now with the Lord. One is still with us, 80 years old, up in the state of Oregon, and people call him Sweet Papa Joe because whenever he walks in the room, the love of God, the Father, walks in the room with him.
Speaker 2:And he's a character.
Speaker 3:But that characteristic of humility, you know. And what's the old joke? I should tell your viewers about my book Humility and how I Obtained it right.
Speaker 1:Is that really? Did you write that book? No, okay.
Speaker 3:I don't know. I wrote a different book, but not that one. I think that's huge because I always, I hope to the time I meet Jesus, I will be a lifelong learner. I always have something to learn and I, I I'm going to learn from, uh, the young child. I'm going to learn from the teenager who says something or asks a certain question. I'm going to learn from adults, from congregational members, from Christians who have been burned by the church, from not yet Christians.
Speaker 3:I have a circle of people that I meet with from time to time via Zoom, from the LGBTQIA plus community who got a hold. I have a book entitled being a Safe Place and they wanted to know well, how can the church be a safe place for me, and it's been great meeting with that group because I'm learning so much and hopefully they're learning something from me too, and I think I don't know where or how that humility comes about, but if a leader can walk in, that he or she, god, would use that so powerfully in and through their lives. One of the things about being a safe place for others going back to what you were saying earlier, tim is knowing where, when and how to protect others from my strength.
Speaker 1:Say more.
Speaker 3:One of my strengths is I'm going to give you grace until the proverbial cows come home. But somebody may not just need grace, they may need a word of truth, and so at some point I may need to protect them from that pension of mine. To give you grace upon grace. And hey, we need to have a hard conversation. There's a really good book called Having the Hard Conversations, not necessarily a Christian book, but again, we can learn from anywhere, and sometimes we need to have the hard conversation, hopefully bathed in grace, but still candid and to the point and hopefully out of a humble heart.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes. Have you read the other half of the church, the book on brain?
Speaker 3:science yeah, a while ago, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really, really helpful. There are many philosophers, social scientists, who are talking about the two halves of the brain and the right hand side primarily being our emotional seat. But what they've actually discovered recently is the left hand, our emotional seat, but what they've actually discovered recently is the left hand. Now, left hand is more words, logic, I'm right. You can think of the right hand side of the brain as the both hand and the left hand side as the either or or, the left hand side as truth, my truth, right, and the right hand side is well, there may be other things that are true and grace there kind of meets us. And what the author kind of says is the church lives with a hyperactive left side of the brain and we can become legalistic, pharisaical and we can. We can justify it quite well, but we can be quite wrong.
Speaker 1:The left hand side of the brain what they're actually saying is the left hand side of the brain also is very emotional. It's it's the seat of resentment and great conflict, internal, and this is the Apostle Paul right. The good I want to do, I don't. And this is the apostle Paul right. The good I want to do, I don't. And what I should do that. Oh, wretched man. There's this internal tension.
Speaker 1:I thought I was right, this is the way it has to be, but then no, no, no, we get moved over to the right-hand side of the brain. The right-hand side of the brain is our communal brain. There's only truth outside of me and with us, rather than just locating within, within myself. I think brain science is fascinating right now, and we have to lean, we have to start. All of our information, all of our experiences start in the right hand side of the brain, with our emotions and and creating safety around. I can have a duality in my emotions. I can feel great joy and great anxiety at the very same time, you know. And so anything more to say on brain science and the need for us to live from, rather than the either or and the both, and I'd be curious to get your take on that, mike.
Speaker 3:One of the things we're doing in LCMC, we've launched and not that it's relegated solely to us, but we've launched something called Leader Care, the Leader Care Initiative. And again, we want to care for our leaders and we use the term leader, not pastor, because we want to minister to pastors and lay leaders. But we have a series of retreats we always have going on somewhere around the country, and there's one that looks at emotional formation, relational formation, there's one that looks at mental formation and physical formation and spiritual formation, and of course we're all of these things at the same time, but we break them out to look at them one at a time so we can focus on them. And in the mental formation retreat, one of the things that we do talk about is the whole discovery now of neuroplasticity, that our brain has to be rewired. And sometimes people kind of you're you're getting all sciencey on me and said, well, really, this is just supporting things like, uh, renew your mind. Uh, you know, this is, this is uh.
Speaker 3:Scripture talks about what god's built into us. We can, our minds can be renewed, our brains can be rewired as we get into God's word, marinate in God's word, memorize, meditate or just immersed in the word and as we're with other people who can help do that. So I think the thing of brain science is something more and more we do need to pay attention to, and I know it's helpful to me to have somebody that I can grasp those concepts. But that expert or the person who's got the insights on that I need that guy, I need that gal to come talk to us. I can learn. I'm not the guy you want lecturing on stuff like that.
Speaker 4:So you're bringing guests into these conferences? Yeah, we'll bring guests and they might come in person.
Speaker 3:They might join us via Zoom. We have a leader, so Christian Huntley, again on my staff, leads this ministry in our association. We just are coming off a leader care retreat in Texas and we've got one coming up in Iowa and another one in North Carolina, and the one in Texas was on spiritual formation. The one in Iowa is going to be on emotional formation. We're not all emotionally healthy and that comes into a real life play of action when I'm in that church council meeting or that district meeting where things are getting a little tense and I don't respond in the healthiest emotional way, and so that'll be one on that. But yeah, going back to your thing about the brain science, tim, I think that's something we can really learn from and I don't think we need to be afraid of it because I think scripture will actually speak to that or vice versa.
Speaker 4:I actually think some of the brain sciences is the most effective when you actually contextualize it into our Christian faith and the doctrine of grace, and when you pair those things together, you get actually a much better outcome.
Speaker 3:Well, I really do, I agree.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what is our theology? Um, justification jack. You and I have been wrestling with this a lot. Uh, the other side of the coin of justification, well you could say, is sanctification. But the parallel, I guess the synonym of justification is, is our identity in j, identity in Christ, our baptismal reality, and when you realize who you are in Christ, like something changes here and obviously here, yeah, but I know who I am and therefore I'm far less offendable.
Speaker 1:You, know, our Lutheran theology is like so nails for what the world needs today. Right, it's all him, it's all him, and so he hold me. It's all about Christ. It's passive faith. It's is like so nails for what the world needs today. Right, it's all him, it's all him, and so he hold me. It's all about Christ. It's passive faith. It's been outside of me, and so I don't have to worry about proving myself or making a name for myself. I'm held in Christ, anything more. Last question here, mike Anything more to say about the Lutheran values? Really deep theology. That should be a winsome witness to the world right now.
Speaker 3:Well what you're just talking about. I call it a settled sense of identity. Yeah, my identity is settled. I don't have to go discover it, I don't have to find it. I don't have to have an operation to go into it. I don't have to have a certain position title toys have to have a certain position, title toys, whatever to have my identity. One of the big discussions for me with the LGBTQIA group that I talk with is their identity is not that, any more than my identity is being somebody who's straight. My identity, their identity for many of them is they're a beloved daughter, a beloved son of God. That's right and because that's settled, I don't have to do in order to be. I can do because I already am.
Speaker 4:That's it.
Speaker 3:I don't have to do in order to be loved or accepted. I don't have to do in order to be forgiven. I don't have to do in order to have a sense of worth and a purpose is significant. I can do the good works already prepared before me by the Lord, because I already am and that is just something that, when it gets in here and then down in your heart, as you were saying, you just can't be shaken and it gives you a place of peace from which to live and then to enter into and have authentic dialogues.
Speaker 1:Because you don't have to be right, I just want to be righteous and you are yeah, amen in christ, yeah, so this has been so much fun, mike. Uh, what a, what a privilege to learn with you and grateful for your leadership in the LCMC. If you just give like if someone I said it was last question, I got to get this one out Vision's a big deal. So in leaders, whether you're called a president or a national service coordinator, casting vision is necessary for you. So if someone were to come up, I'm asking this question right now hey, mike, tell me the vision of the LCMC, what would you say?
Speaker 3:Well, our mission first of all is to connect and encourage Lutheran congregations in the mission of the gospel and to develop healthy leaders for that mission. But our vision, if somebody were to ask me it's seeing God impacting people around the globe with his love and his power. We just believe, as we're faithful in word and sacrament and as we live in the power of the Holy Spirit, we're going to see people brought to faith in Jesus, healed physically, emotionally, relationally, discovering their identity, their lives being transformed, discovering their worth and value, discovering the spiritual gifts God's given them to serve. So, and for us in LCMC, the thing I'm always saying to our congregations what can God do with an association of a thousand congregations who've been given word and sacrament and the power of the Holy Spirit? It just it blows my mind.
Speaker 1:Do you have a, do you have a vision for churches, planning churches, any kind of multiplying and starting new churches, anything there, Mike?
Speaker 3:There's not a vision on that. It's happening slowly but surely. That's something we're actually in talks about and addressing right now.
Speaker 1:So, praise God, yeah, praise God, can't wait. Takes all kinds of churches, reach all kinds of people and while we don't agree on everything, I'd still count you as a brother in Christ and I pray for the growth of the LCMC and I pray that everyone listening today just says wow, that's a different way to organize as a church and that's a different way to think about what a national leader does and how he or she, in their respective role, kind of operates. So thank you for being you, thank you for the humility and the joy that you bring. If people want to connect with you and the LCMC, mike, to learn more, how can they do so?
Speaker 3:Well, they can email me at mike, at lcmcnet.
Speaker 1:Amen, Amen. This is such a fun conversation today, Jack Mike.
Speaker 3:Pleasure to talk to you, Mike.
Speaker 1:Excellent to learn with you and please share or like, subscribe, comment wherever it is. You take this in and we promise to have learning conversations with leaders like Mike. I want to be like Mike. I want to be like Mike. This is Lead Time. We'll be back soon. I've never heard that before. Never heard that. Right right, right, all right. Right right right, all right, peace. Thanks for hanging with us today.
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