When tragedy strikes, where can solace be found? Chris from Lutheran Church Charities joins us to share how the gentle nuzzles of canine disaster response teams bring a unique kind of comfort to those suffering in the wake of events like the Uvalde shooting. Our heartfelt discussion traverses the bittersweet path of ministry work, revealing the surprising places where Christian outreach finds its home. We grapple with cultural perspectives on pain and the misconceptions about faith's role in shielding us from life's harshest realities, shedding light on Christianity's call to bear one another's burdens.
Embarking on a journey of service often leads to places we never expected, and through serving, we find ourselves transformed. This episode delves into the power of community within the ministry, inspired by the unity modeled by the apostles in the book of Acts. As we share stories of growth and unity, the crucial role of grace and the dangers of division within the church are also brought to the fore. Our conversation is an invitation to embrace a collective journey of faith, acknowledging our shared process of following Jesus and growing together.
Navigating leadership in the church demands a humble heart and a keen understanding of one's own limitations. We reflect on the importance of emotional intelligence in ministry leadership and how a leader's humility can foster a sense of security and completeness in Christ. In addition, we illuminate Lutheran Church Charities' multifaceted initiatives that extend far beyond their well-known Comfort Dog Ministry. Closing our episode in Phoenix, we leave you with an encouragement to engage with us further, reminding you that through unity and shared vision, the church can rise to meet the challenges of our time with strategic thinking and a culture of love.
Visit uniteleadership.org
When tragedy strikes, where can solace be found? Chris from Lutheran Church Charities joins us to share how the gentle nuzzles of canine disaster response teams bring a unique kind of comfort to those suffering in the wake of events like the Uvalde shooting. Our heartfelt discussion traverses the bittersweet path of ministry work, revealing the surprising places where Christian outreach finds its home. We grapple with cultural perspectives on pain and the misconceptions about faith's role in shielding us from life's harshest realities, shedding light on Christianity's call to bear one another's burdens.
Embarking on a journey of service often leads to places we never expected, and through serving, we find ourselves transformed. This episode delves into the power of community within the ministry, inspired by the unity modeled by the apostles in the book of Acts. As we share stories of growth and unity, the crucial role of grace and the dangers of division within the church are also brought to the fore. Our conversation is an invitation to embrace a collective journey of faith, acknowledging our shared process of following Jesus and growing together.
Navigating leadership in the church demands a humble heart and a keen understanding of one's own limitations. We reflect on the importance of emotional intelligence in ministry leadership and how a leader's humility can foster a sense of security and completeness in Christ. In addition, we illuminate Lutheran Church Charities' multifaceted initiatives that extend far beyond their well-known Comfort Dog Ministry. Closing our episode in Phoenix, we leave you with an encouragement to engage with us further, reminding you that through unity and shared vision, the church can rise to meet the challenges of our time with strategic thinking and a culture of love.
Visit uniteleadership.org
This is Leetard.
Speaker 2:What a joy to be with you today, chris and Jack. We're going to have a lot of fun. So first question here, chris what's given you in your work with Lutheran Church Charities? What's given you the most joy in ministry right now? Bro, thanks for hanging with us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. You know I really love this call. I love the opportunity to follow Jesus in this call. It's been really exciting to see where the Lord has led us and I would say that one of the most exciting things about this role and following Jesus where he leads is that I'm getting opportunities to be in some places where typically Christians have not been traditionally permitted. And what I mean by that is that.
Speaker 3:I'll give an example. We went down for the one year remembrance down in Uvalde and we were down there all week and we were serving with 11 of our dog teams, our hearts of mercy and compassion, still standing there in the center in Uvalde. And after the news, cameras came and went and we were still there for a couple of days and we got an invitation from 34 public school teachers to go back into Robb Elementary for the very first time since the shooting. Wow, and I just thought to myself I'm like you know, I've been a pastor for a while and I don't know that I had I've been a pastor here for 20 years in this city that I would have got that invitation. So it's really neat to see the way the Lord uses our canines, our hearts, our you know disaster response teams to open doors that normally we probably wouldn't get a chance to have those conversations.
Speaker 2:What a what an awesome, awesome story. As a pastor of 21 years and now with Lutheran Church Charities as a president and leading a lot of folks who are walking through trauma and grief, what are some of the words of wisdom that you have for folks? Because I think the general tendency of most humans is to avoid suffering and grief and pain at almost all costs until it steps on your doorstep. It takes a unique individual to say you know what I'm going to pursue the pain and bring the gospel to those that are hurting. What is it about some people who are in your ministry that say hey, here am I send me even to folks that are experiencing immense pain and grief? It's a really good question.
Speaker 3:It reminds me of something I heard all the way back when I was first starting in ministry. I heard an interview with a pair of missionaries and the interviewer asked them a lot of different questions, but it was this one question and answer that's always stuck with me. They had been in the East for a very long time, so they had been in areas of Asia and really serving ministry roles there, and now they were in the West. And the interviewer just kind of paused and said what would you say is the biggest difference between serving as a missionary in the East as opposed to serving here in the West? And without missing a beat, I will never forget their answer.
Speaker 3:They said that's simple, it's all on the perspective of pain.
Speaker 3:It's all on the perspective of pain, they said you see, in the West we have this obsession of getting rid of pain at all costs, and so we do everything we can, including throw lots of money at it, to get rid of it.
Speaker 3:But in the East the mindset on pain is I have to not get rid of it, I need to endure it.
Speaker 3:I thought that that perspective really lined up with, certainly, our view on pain in terms of our theology and understanding of scripture and what God speaks to us about.
Speaker 3:And I would say that our folks who go and serve and keep in mind it's not like we're having all of our staff that are going to this mind, it's not like we're having all of our staff that are going to this these are people of the church that we get a joy of leading and going into these traumatic situations. They understand that. You know, pain is not something to be fixed, it's something to be endured, and one of the phrases ever since I took this role came from kind of a more secular philosopher, but I certainly can find plenty of places in scripture to support this idea and that is I just like the way he coined it and he said it this way. He said, at the end of the day, we're just trying to walk one another home and I really feel like that's really the incentive for our teams is that we go and we just want to be there with people in that moment, because just our presence alone makes such a difference.
Speaker 4:I can see why the philosophy, the Western philosophy of we need to eliminate all pain can be a real challenge for the church, because I think when people come to church, when they come to faith, they realize it's not eliminating all of my suffering. Some of my suffering may even increase as a Christian.
Speaker 4:And yet from the Eastern perspective, we now have hope and peace that comes along with the suffering that we have in life, and so I can see where maybe people in the East can contextualize that and actually get the benefit of faith that maybe some people in the in the west are not. Um, there's, there's maybe a mismatch of the expectations of what, of what the church, what faith, what you know, repentance, what all of these things actually deliver to you. Um, and that some of that problem of what you see like, uh, declining christianity might be tied to that, that mismatch of expectation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure. I mean I think you can walk away in a Western Christian mindset to think that you know Jesus comes into your life and everything's changed and everything's great and there's no more problems, and that's we know that. That's just not the truth, yeah.
Speaker 4:And I've talked to a lot of Christians where, like that's the first thing they were hey, I become a Christian. How come I'm still dealing with problems in life? We're here to carry each other's burdens, not not to pretend like they go away.
Speaker 4:Right, and I think that's that's the beauty of serving, and so you told about this great story about Uvalde. I think the church many times doesn't understand how powerful serving is as an evangelical missional opportunity to the community. We tend to think of church just as the building, as the Sunday, the hour of power, right, the preacher, which is all valid.
Speaker 4:It's all true, but it's not exclusively true. There's a bigger piece about that, about what it means to think about church as community, as people, right, and it's people, not just people, but people serving people. And when people are serving people, they're building relationships with people and they're sharing important messages with each other, including the gospel.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a really good point. That's one of the questions that comes to me is you know, gosh, you spent all this time in the parish ministry and now you're leading an RSO, a nonprofit Like. What's that change like? And yet I'm still so connected with the church, obviously, and getting an opportunity to be in these situations, like you said, is absolutely a mission moment. One of my mentors said it this way they said trauma is the new mission field and I really believe that's true and I've watched it happen now for over a year.
Speaker 3:And somebody said well, what's it like being in this?
Speaker 3:And part of the joy that comes to me is and some of you have experienced this when you go out onto a mission trip, everybody is like you kind of go with some expectations, but of course, typically in a mission trip, those are all like thrown out and everybody's kind of like just putting their best foot forward and pouring their heart into it. And you come back and one of the common feelings is like gosh, I went intending to give so much, I can't believe how much I got. And and there's this kind of reality where it's like gosh, that was amazing. And everybody's looking at each other like when can we do this again? Let's go do that again. And that's really where I find joy right now in ministry through LCC is I get a chance to join together with brothers and sisters who get that opportunity to walk into those moments and to sit with folks and to make a difference. And then we come back and reflect and go man, could you, could, could you not see Jesus? He was everywhere. That's so awesome.
Speaker 2:So, so awesome. Uh, what parts of the story of Jesus cause the scripture is written way more for an Eastern audience, I would say, or communal, rather than a hyper individualistic audience. We in the West kind of love our Jesus and me, but in reading Henry Nouwen and some others you can't read Jesus or even do theology alone. It takes community Obviously, it takes communion with the Holy Spirit to appropriately interpret scripture. But then we need to talk about the story of Jesus to rightly see him and for him to see us. You could say and I heard recently that Luke and Acts, you know kind of the first and second chapter of Jesus' story, the church's story is much more Eastern Jesus' story. The church's story is much more Eastern. And then the apostle Paul, because he's moving a little bit more into the egalitarian kind of the Roman road, that he has a tendency more in his theology to move like baptism for you, right, and that is very true.
Speaker 2:But I think sometimes even in the LCMS and we got a lot of folks in the LCMS listening to this is sometimes we're so, pauline, that sometimes we miss the collective not talking socialism here the collective move of the church in mission, serving, identifying, felt needs, being the hands and feet of Jesus, locking arms outward in mission for the sake of others. We are not able to think. I'm thinking right and left side of the brain right now, because the left hand side of the brain is like logic and I would say that moves more toward me. But if we get the right hand side of the brain, which is more like emotion and safety, but then we see Jesus is entering in on the right side and then he's moving us into community and then we just have conversations, hopefully logical, linear conversations about our desperate need for Jesus.
Speaker 2:But I really feel like so to land this, I really feel like we need to reflect on the book of Acts more and the way courage inspired the apostles and the deacons and all sorts of leaders to bring messages of love and care and also challenge, because they knew they were not alone and they knew even in the midst, because Jesus had prepared them. They knew even in the midst of suffering and trial they were locking arms. The mission of Jesus, empowered by the Holy Spirit, would not stop the church. Individuals could be stopped, but the church would not be stopped, and I think we're living in a day and age where we have to have that sort of collective, communal response right now, because that's the only way. That's the only way I can ultimately enter into grief and pain, knowing it's about the one who carries me, the one who carries and sustains us the church. Any conversation more, though, about our need to see Luke and Acts come alive today in the life of the church.
Speaker 3:Chris, yeah, that's really well said, Tim. I just think that you know, obviously we're always still in process and following Jesus. Even the disciples were in process following Jesus, and I would echo that. Some of the things that when you step back and you look at where we are today, unfortunately, so many times the way the world goes, it filters into our sanctuaries and it filters into our behaviors, and I think one of the things that you know, reflecting on what I heard you say, is the power of community and our community, especially of believers. Even Paul really leans into this right. Paul really leans into this idea like hey, don't forget your brothers who are, you know, being persecuted elsewhere. Hey, don't forget that this church needs help and I'm glad that you're being celebrated, but let's remember this.
Speaker 3:And I think, when we think about that conversation and all parts of the body and suffering with one another, I really feel like that's the thing that we need to make sure we lift up as a more constant conversation, because the thing that is just really, I believe, harming and the way that the devil has just caused so much division, even within our own circles, is because so many of us are. So I guess maybe it comes out of insecurity, maybe it comes out of fear, but we so often, in that individualism, we're picking up stones and aiming them at our brothers and we got to drop those stones. We got to drop those stones and realize that you know, we're in conversation, we're in process and we're supposed to be people of grace. I just feel like sometimes we miss that because, like you said, we get so individualistic. We think about grace for me. Sometimes I think it kind of gets lost. It's grace for we, that's right.
Speaker 2:In varying contexts, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And love and care for one another in those varying contexts. So let's talk leadership. This is a leadership podcast as you're leading, and you can go back to your church story and I know you'd be kind to folks at St John's and Trinity, klein, et cetera. But let me set it up this way You're a leader of joy, chris. The joy of Jesus rests upon you. I experience it when I hear you talk even now. But Satan wants to steal joy. So when you look at your life and leadership even right now, what steals joy, chris?
Speaker 3:I would say that it is when we literally pick up rocks and start throwing them at each other. It's just. I can't find out anything that's more counterproductive. It's just, I can't find out anything that's more counterproductive, and especially in a world where already we have so much division if we can't find unity together. It makes the work of ministry so much more difficult and so much more challenging than in some ways it needs to be. Again, I'm not Pollyanna. I don't think that we will always necessarily agree on everything and everything's in harmony all the time. I don't see that as being the goal in terms of a reality, but I think what I see that just really robs me from joy is you see these opportunities to, like you said, link arms together and we have people going. No, I think I'm good. I think I'm good.
Speaker 2:The work of the church. Jack, I'd love to get your take on this. The work of the church is always relational, and you can have as many good systems and kind of written documents or whatever, but until we learn to love and respect one another, and especially those that are different everybody's different from one another, those that have diverse gifts, and we elevate them and we say I need you, everything else is a loss. I've been kind of reflecting a lot here, Jack, and I've had some time off actually, actually from thinking a little bit higher level and just to kind of see, even in our ministry there's like a spiritual battle that goes on in the trenches of relationship with people at every single level, and Satan leads us to put the worst construction on the intent of others and the best construction on my own intent.
Speaker 4:Right and so how does that get flipped?
Speaker 2:How does that? That's the journey, the humble journey, right where it gets flipped, where no, no, no, I, I know who I am and what I'm capable of. Yeah, I can talk clearly about my shadow sides and a lot of times, based on our personality. It can be a gift, but it can also be something that is really, really detrimental. Your strength can hurt other people when pride gets in the way, and so I think leaders have to go first, chris, and say hey, when I'm off the rails and when I'm not thinking clearly, I may be prone and I'll confess something here I may be prone to send an email that's longer than it should be around an issue that we've had.
Speaker 2:This is Jack and I are walking through a small little thing right now. It so yeah, yeah, but but like, just to get like, let me land it like this Like, if you don't have EQ skills, if you haven't learned to process who you are and who you're not in community with other people, you can really do damage in the church. Um, because it becomes. It becomes about, about you. So maybe I'm asking a question around how does the leader take the consistent, humble path, chris, your thoughts there?
Speaker 3:That's the word is humility, right. Humility and I've said it this way, working alongside and myself at times too, I recognize it in me. But when we have someone who is not self-aware, that lack of self-awareness creates the opportunity for one of the most dangerous effects to happen, and that process of becoming self-aware takes a tremendous sense of humility. You know, Romans 12 obviously leans into this right, Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment.
Speaker 3:And that sober judgment is part of that getting that humble pie and saying you know, hold on, am I thinking of myself a little too highly here? Am I thinking of more of myself than I am? Or likewise, it's also can be the reverse. There are people who have been gifted by the Lord who are many ways not recognizing that gift either, and so that's not real good self-awareness either. They're not participating with the gift that God's equipped them with. So I think, when I think about leadership, I think the number one goal for every leader is to really invest the time on the internal work so that externally, the work is a benefit and a blessing to others externally, the work is a benefit and a blessing to others.
Speaker 4:Yeah, jack, any thoughts? Yeah, I mean, humility is such a powerful necessity for leaders, and I want to add to that, because you talked about, what does it look like to extend the best motivation to somebody? Maybe that you're having a discussion with, or maybe a quarrel about, a topic? Whatever it is, charity, right. Giving somebody the benefit of the doubt, right. And then faith. So, like leaders have to think about what their faith means for their humility and charity towards others. I cannot be humble unless I genuinely believe that there's a God that forgives me for being wrong about something Right. And if that's my identity, if my identity is there is a God who forgives me for being wrong, then I can deal with that reality and I can confess that I'm wrong.
Speaker 3:Right? Yeah, because what it creates is if, when you know that right, it begins to resolve some internal insecurity that we have. You know, the number one question, right, and Luther struggled with it I'm not good enough, I don't measure up, am I enough? I mean all these things. And of course the gospel comes in and says well, you're fallen, you're a sinner, but guess what? God is here and in Christ. You now are complete, you are more than enough. And I think that really changes because, like you said, it gives you the freedom when you accept yourself you are as a sinner and as one who's been redeemed by Jesus. That opens the door for you to do that for others. But when you're still fighting that battle in and of yourself, there's no doubt that it's going to come out in your work and the way you treat others.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, Right. For the leader to become more comfortable saying I could be wrong about this. I got an idea. What do you think about the idea? This is how healthy culture is formed in a state, in a nation, in a local church our leaders bringing their ideas to the table and letting the community digest them, roll around with them, play with them and then release them into reality. In community, there is the folly of thinking that I can do much of anything, to accomplish much of anything on my own is absolutely ridiculous and that's what the narcissist thinks right, and it's a lie that must be confronted in all of us. You know, I'm I'm pretty much, I'm pretty much the guy here.
Speaker 3:I was just talking yeah, go ahead. Well, I was just gonna say, but see, if you're insecure, okay. And if you're not self-aware of that and you're not getting in touch and accepting that, that's part of who you are, the sinfulness in you. If you don't get to that place, then really there's no room for you to share any ministry, any accolades, any accomplishment or any needs, because you're so obsessed with trying to fill that in yourself. I mean, I've experienced that in my own growth, where it's like I can look back on my early years of ministry and, well, kind of see him. Sometimes today it still pops up.
Speaker 3:But as I keep growing in faith and maturity, I'm seeing how so often some of the things that I was just so headstrong about really weren't that important. In many ways they were connected to something that I was trying to kind of get resolved in me. And I think when you get to that self-awareness it suddenly gets you room to go wow, gosh, if Jesus can kind of work with me through this, can I work with somebody else through this? And I think that's exactly what the whole community of faith is supposed to be all about. But for some reason we've kind of fallen into a completely being isolated, where each of us is on our own for our own self-esteem and fulfillment, and all of that, and also then that leaves everybody else on their own.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So this conversation, jack, let me let me just say this and I'll get to you this conversation can change and I pray does change the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. If every leader, pastor, said I can't do this on my own, I need, I need help. As simple as that is. I was just in conversation with and this is not like a near church, so no one needs to kind of think what churches are in phoenix. No, no. But I heard about a pastor who is the only one who ever preaches in there, in there, and it's a medium, medium-sized church and and he's the only one that ever does bible study. And guess what's happened to the church? It's, it's declined and he's gotten older and now, instead of choosing the humble path and maybe raising up, and he's just continuing on. No, this is I was, I am the guy. Well, maybe there's a different way, you know, and no one it's kind of there's no demonization of the guy, like no one had the courage to actually enter in and say, hey, have we ever thought about having other people preach?
Speaker 2:You know you're amazing, you're awesome, but, like, multiple voices are needed, I think, for the growth of the church. This appears to be the way of Jesus, who brought the disciples and then ascended and released the Holy Spirit so that the apostles would spread out and the message of Christ would multiply to the masses, would spread out and the message of Christ would multiply to the masses. And that's the humble journey that is needed for the church to reach, especially in the secular day and age that we live. It's going to take many different types of leaders reaching many different types of people in different locations. So that is the humble journey, jack. Any closing thoughts on the journey of humility?
Speaker 4:Yeah, the journey of humility.
Speaker 4:I guess the thoughts that are conjured up as we're having this conversation is like the humility, the charity towards others, the willingness to give people the benefit of the doubt as we enter into conversation, the willingness to acknowledge that we're wrong, and then also the fact, like just the reality, that the world that we live in, that we have to make choices about the types of relationships that we cultivate, and I've heard this said to me you go into the voting booth and you vote and you've just pleased half the population and disappointed the other half of the population.
Speaker 4:And so we're entering in and we're having to make, like, discernment and choices. And I guess, tim, this is like we're circling the loop back to systems, right? And I guess, tim, this is like we're circling the loop back to systems, right. We do have to have these sort of guide rails in here that help us to say yes and no to things, knowing that, like, the difficult part of leadership is kind of understanding how we say yes to no, yes and no, cultivate one relationship, which means another relationship doesn't get cultivated as much as it could be, and that's like the hard part of leadership that I think a lot of people struggle with as we try to think about being, like, really great at relationship building.
Speaker 2:Yeah, chris, how are you? Let's get into Lutheran Church Charities and a little bit more. What are you? What's your primary focus? We know that there's the comfort dogs, which are amazing, but broaden out the scope of the ministry of Lutheran Church Charities.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's always funny. You know, I go into a place and this is this is where I get my humble pie. Like nobody cares if the president and CEO of Lutheran Church Charities there. All they want to know is did you bring the dogs with you? That's all they want to know. Sorry.
Speaker 3:But, that's great, it's really good. You know Lutheran Church Charities. Our purpose statement is that we exist to bring the mercy, the compassion, the presence, the proclamation of Jesus to those who are suffering and in need. And we do that through now primary five ministries and we do that through our canine comfort dog Ministry, which we have 130 teams in 28 states. We do it through we have now 17 Hearts of Mercy and Compassion affiliates. Our biggest installation of our Hearts of Mercy and Compassion just went to Maui. We have 101 hearts there in place right outside Lahaina, where the community can sign those hearts.
Speaker 3:We do human care, which is a lot of our work, is in the Northern Illinois District. It's starting to expand in some networking that we're doing. And then we also have, of course, our disaster response, which we cooperate and are in concert with the Lutheran Early Response Training, the LERT training. And now the fifth one is that we're entering into crisis response, and crisis response involves a training known as spiritual first aid and that's really one of the focuses that I came across when I went to Maui.
Speaker 3:When I went to Maui, because of the quarantine I couldn't bring my dogs. We didn't have the names of those victims from the fire. So I wasn't ready to bring the hearts yet, but we had this invitation from the church to come and respond and so we went out there with Emmanuel and Maui and partnered together and the number one need and even still today, the number one need besides Beyond Housing today is definitely emotional and spiritual first aid. So we're moving into that for the prime purpose of simply being there in the middle of someone going through a traumatic experience, who is suffering and in need.
Speaker 2:So let's drill down. Do you have counselors that folks come and learn and partner with you? Get more detailed in terms of the team that goes in. I'm really curious.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we spend a lot of time. We don't have any professional counselors. We do have some professional counselors. I should qualify that we have some within our organization in terms of our teams. But what we're looking for is taking folks, ordinary folks, everyday folks like you and like me, who are in the church, getting an opportunity to go into situations and, like you said, be the hands and the feet and the presence of Jesus, and so we go through a very deep training with our folks and we partner with churches to bring that training to them. I just got an opportunity to do such a training down at Gloria Day in Houston and we really had a fantastic time where we were able to talk them through. Here's some things that you say. Here's some things you don't say. Here's the goal. Here's what you're looking for. Here's how you can be an effective servant in the moment of trauma.
Speaker 4:Awesome. Love that, that is awesome.
Speaker 2:Thank you so what's the origin story of Lutheran Church Charities? You're an RSO of the LCMS.
Speaker 3:Tell how it came to be. Well, so back in 1947, it started as this group that was going to do the fundraising for many other RSOs, and so that's how the organization began. And then what happened is that eventually different RSOs wanted to kind of have their own fundraising and so they started doing more and more of their own, which eliminated some of the need and role for Lutheran Church charities. So in that process then Tim Hetzner became the CEO at that point and really brought kind of the groundwork for everything that you see today for Lutheran Church Charities, with our canine comfort dogs and our disaster response and our human care. And the whole heart of it was to make sure that we were able to partner with our churches, to be able to get outside of our walls and to be able to intersect with the community that was hurting and suffering and in need.
Speaker 2:That's fantastic being a historian. 1947, that was the century anniversary of the Synod and there was a lot that was being written right around then around the century of grace and the missional multiplication that was taking place, starting churches. And over the next decade or two, man, we were starting a lot of different churches and a lot of RSOs were kind of starting to be formed too to serve in beautiful ways. So let's talk about the origin of the comfort dogs, like when did that start? When did that become a thing? And, man, people are passionate about one. In America, people just love dogs in general. Right, I mean, they love dogs almost more than they love people, which is maybe not so great, but these dogs are amazing. Talk about how they started and what the ministry really looks like of the comfort dogs there, chris.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thank you. It is a fantastic ministry. It began in 2008. Lutheran Church Charities was down responding to Hurricane Katrina and one of the things that they had seen was people's love of their animals. I mean, people were refusing to get into boats because their dog or their cat wouldn't be in that boat with them and there had been some early interaction with some opportunities that came to Lutheran Church Charities to involve dogs and so, out of that whole kind of context, the ministry began and we began training leaders and how to train dogs. And we began to train the dogs and began to serve. And there was a shooting at the University of Illinois and there was a connection there with Lutheran Church Charities and we got the invite to come up and we brought our dogs and that was really the impetus that really began to set us on a trajectory of where we are today.
Speaker 3:The way it works is. Science kind of backs this up but when you pet a dog, one of the things that gets released in you are the same chemicals that you experience when there are things like trust and safety going on, and so the dogs really do have a calming effect. We pick our golden. Retrievers are picked because they're a beautiful breed. Our golden retrievers are picked because they're a beautiful breed. They are trained, with over 2,000 hours to be absolutely patient, still calm, so that people who are going through trauma can begin to find that safety and be able to open up with some feelings of trust to our handlers. And that's really the power of it Is that once they start to pet the dog, they may not talk about much at first, but again, as they sit with the dog and begin to pet and begin to talk and begin to share our handlers that's the real heart of the ministry get an opportunity to listen and to be that presence, that nonjudgmental presence of Jesus in that moment.
Speaker 4:That's amazing, so I imagine there's training for the handlers as well, right To make them to kind of lean into that listening capacity.
Speaker 3:That's right. So when a church says we want to have a comfort dog, they join a list and they begin to get into a process where they begin to build their team. We walk with them every step of the way to build that team and then we begin the training of that team and probably, from start to finish, it's about 18 months, and so the team is very highly trained as well, both to work with the dogs and how to work with dogs and how to keep that dog continually focused on the role that it's going to play, but also, obviously, for the people, on some of the things that they need to be trained in, on how to respond and how not to respond, and so those are things that we spend those 18 months really working with, so that they have a team that they can be confident with when they're called on. So cool, I love that. Yeah, it's, it's awesome Are there?
Speaker 2:I'm just thinking about dogs Like um are. Do you have any competitors in the comfort dog industry? Are there a lot of other? What's the market of comfort dogs right now? You know?
Speaker 3:it's, it's on the rise. Actually, I mean, you have a lot of, you know, if you see in the airport, right, you see a lot more people with their animals and support animals and and all of that, and so that is definitely on the rise. Recognition of the value of that is on the rise and there are there are many groups that do this, that are that we're starting to see now begin to grow and expand, starting to see now begin to grow and expand and to get into a comfort dog ministry.
Speaker 2:I mean, this is it's a heavy financial investment too, and I'm I'll have another conversation with our spiritual care team. It's a large team and I'd love to explore partnership with you guys in particular. But to get to get this is where the barrier may be. It's. It's not cheap, right, to get the dog, get the team kind of trained. It's a pretty heavy investment. Talk about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would say that there's a couple things to that. First of all, there is a. There is an expense to it. It isn't cheap, but on the other hand we have not found any congregation who's pursued this that has been, you know, thwarted in their attempts to get a dog because of finances.
Speaker 3:I kind of was joking the other day that when I was at St John's we had an issue with our stained glass windows and right around the same time I had a speaker that went out for our service and I asked for the speaker to help get Renny to replace that speaker. And I don't know, it probably took a good like six, seven months to just gain the money to replace one speaker. No-transcript, and to the value of that. So money has never stood as an impediment for the ministry, but it is an investment. I would say the most important thing that I would highlight is not the money but it's the investment and commitment of time. We have a high bar but we have a lot of support for the teams.
Speaker 3:So you know this, some people get into their head that you know this is kind of like a oh, our church has a dog. It's not really like. Your church has a dog. You're starting a ministry and that ministry of a lot of our teams are going out about 40 times a month and that's a lot of visits and then when we have a national crisis we'll call them again and say we need to respond.
Speaker 3:And one other thing on that is that if, for those reasons, church is kind of saying gosh, I guess we can't really participate, that I would also just encourage. That doesn't mean you can't partner with LCC. Still, our hearts of mercy and compassion is a fantastic way that we're looking for churches to become affiliates and have teams in the similar way to K9. We do LUR training, so we do disaster teams that are ready to respond to disasters and other kinds of needs in their community. And we're building a human care network and a crisis response for when things are, you know, happening in your community, so that you as a church can go and be the hands and feet and be the presence of Jesus in those moments. So there's a lot of opportunities to partner with Lutheran church charities.
Speaker 2:I want a dog, Jack. Let's get a dog here, man, and and let's the hearts.
Speaker 4:No, not a.
Speaker 2:Chihuahua no way man, these golden retrievers, the ticket? Uh yeah, I got a. I got a french bulldog, like I don't think she's not gonna do anything like comfort dog. Yeah, there's no she. She comforts me, but she's very hostile. I don't think she'd comfort a whole lot of other people and she's my dog.
Speaker 4:Anyway, this is. This is such a cool. I think they're fantastic. Yeah, yeah, I'm. Yeah. Unfortunately, it's not my destiny to have one in my house.
Speaker 2:It's all right, it's all right, but maybe someone here at Christ Greenfield listens and we're like we got to move down this path. I will be in all sincerity, chris. We'll be talking about how we can partner more together. Let's shift to the messiness of the church and then the church living together in our varying contexts. This podcast talks a lot about a need for change and growth and honesty with the trajectory of the Missouri Synod and some of the struggles in raising up local leaders and our partnership with institutions. A lot of those things, but let's stay positive right now. What do you love about the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod and being an RSO of Synod and also being a 20-plus year pastor in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod what do you love?
Speaker 3:Yeah, real quickly. I'm a lifelong Lutheran and I kind of thought in some ways I sometimes thought of myself as an outsider to the Lutheran church, even though I grew up in it. Um, and then I found out that my family actually came over on the boat. So I was like, oh, wow, I really am an insider. Okay, um, but one of the things that was a great blessing to me I didn't realize how strong of a blessing it was to me until later was my grandfather, who was an organist and a Lutheran school principal for many, many years, made a career switch and bought a Christian bookstore and my father grew up in that business and took on a store as well and continued his entire life in the Christian bookstore business and I grew up in that world. So I grew up in this Lutheran world, very Lutheran world all the way through, lutheran, educated all the way through. But I also grew up in this very evangelical Christian community and I can't tell you what a blessing that was on many fronts. One of the blessings that it was for me was that it helped me in my own theology, really understand our theology, I think, even better than I would have had I not had that experience and I love our theology.
Speaker 3:I love the fact that we're Christmas-centric. It kind of sharpens you, right? Yes, absolutely it sharpens you. It makes you think differently. It makes you question things that you know I would hear things in you know Bible class, or I would hear things at confirmation. But then now suddenly I'm talking with other Christians who see things differently and so it causes you not just to accept it just because it was said to you. It actually challenges you to go back into the same scriptures that they're looking at and go Hmm, I wonder what I'm seeing here. That was a tremendous blessing, but really specifically, it's taught me that I love our theology. I love our Christocentric commitment, our faithfulness to the authority of Scripture. The justification by grace through faith is just so huge.
Speaker 3:Obviously, from the Reformation forward, I love our educational system. Being a product of it, I love it. I'm proud to be a product of the LCMS education route, because not only did it really give to me a very strong biblical worldview that I use every day now and in my everyday decisions as well as my role here at LCC, but it also gave me tremendous opportunities to serve out of faith, and I will continue to praise God and thank Him for that opportunity for our schools and being the son of a Lutheran school teacher, having a wife who taught in schools, having a daughter now who teaches in the Lutheran school, I'm just so grateful for our Lutheran school educators and the ministry that they carry out. And then the last thing I would say is that I love our strong bonds of community.
Speaker 3:Tim, you know this and it's just so funny. Jack, you know this too right. You go to BPM or you go to a conference and you end up talking to somebody you don't know and you're like you know them too. How do you guys know each other? And it's like they always talk about like six degrees of separation. I think in the LCMS it might be two, it might be even smaller. It's like there's no separation. I love that. I love those bonds of community. I think those are fantastic things that we get in the church.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're a family.
Speaker 3:Amen, you know and families can be messy, so as you look at the family, family fights can be the worst, tim.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's right, so what parts of our family system need to be addressed right now, Chris.
Speaker 3:Highlight top two or three things. You're praying change in our family? Yeah, for sure I would pray that. First of all, you know that we would kind of have the chains of what I'm calling insecurity and fear broken off of us. I feel like some of our institutional insecurity is really causing us a lot of problems, and it tends to begin for us to focus internally and we begin to lose kind of our vision for outward. And then I think the other part of this is that you also you also, as you begin to turn kind of inward, you also have a tendency to kind of get very nostalgic. And I feel like us as an institution, we're kind of having some of that right now where it's like we're talking about the good old days and we're maybe we haven't mourned them yet, but there are seasons that I think we don't need to get stuck in the past. We need to be also remembering that we are the people of the now and the not yet, not people of the was and used to be, and we worship a God who was, who is and who is to come, and so I wish that that insecurity for us is something I'm praying that breaks free, and so I wish that that insecurity for us is something I'm praying that breaks free. I think the other thing that I would say is that I pray that we would become better known as a community that deeply loves each other. That has always been a hallmark of the Christian community, and I am praying for our LCMS denomination to become better known as a community that deeply loves each other, that we have each other's back, that we are supporting one another, that, yes, we'll have disagreements, but that we serve the same God and we're working together, and that we would also be known to be love people who love our communities that we serve in. And then, secondly we talked about this A big thing on my list is humility. I pray that that's a characteristic that again just begins to shine in me. I pray that it's something that begins to shine in us as a denomination, as an LCMS family. That the other thing I'm praying for is I'm praying that you know we would have better collaboration in the externals or the non-essentials, and, as a con, as a way to set that up, I think I heard a brother say this one time.
Speaker 3:He was talking about such an opportunity and he said well, if their theology is bad, we're not working with them, and all I can say is, I'm sure, glad that Jesus didn't take that stance with us.
Speaker 3:I think all of us are on a journey, I think we need to constantly be in conversation, and I think there's a lot of room for us to begin to work together with all kinds of people in the things that are not sacred, in the things that are external, in the non-essentials, that we might become a voice again that's present in the everyday communities and going-ons of our country. And so those are some of the things that I'm really praying for, for Ascended, because I love our family, I love our denomination. We're not perfect by any stretch of the means and, just like even with your own family, sometimes you just get so frustrated with your family. I love our denomination. We're not perfect by any stretch of the means and, just like even, you know, with your own family, sometimes you just get so frustrated with your family. But I'm really, really grateful for the fact that the Lord has given to me this family of the LCMS.
Speaker 2:And it needs to be stewarded well. It it's a, she needs a vision, any kind of any kind of family. When we get sideways, it's because we do turn inward and leaders in a family cast vision for how we could improve, imagine, imagine if and then. So this is what I'm praying for leaders whether you're a leader in a local church, obviously you're a leader in your, your home. Um, if you're leading a district or a denomination, um, that you would dream big dreams of a new vision for how we love one another, um, and, and how we reach people who don't know the love of of Jesus. And can we be super clear that the mission of God, the Missio Dei, has a church and so vision. This is how I define my role and, jack, I think you orient this way too. Where are we going? So that's vision. How are we going to get there? That's honesty around strategy. And that's where, okay, we've got some areas where we need to be truthful about where we're struggling More church workers, churches declining, blah, blah, blah. Schools closing Okay, how are we going to? How are we going to get there? So there's strategy. And then the third one which I hear you talking about, chris, is how well, are we loving one another on our, on our vision to to there? That's culture and and if, if a leader, and if a leader doesn't assess all three of those things, live. It's kind of concentric circles right and Orion. This is the way of Jesus.
Speaker 2:Jesus cast big vision. You will be my witness in Jerusalem, judea, samaria, to the ends of the world. How are we going to do it? You're going to go out and multiply disciples. You're going to go out and you're going to find leaders who find leaders to move the mission of Jesus forward. And oh, and how are you going to do it? Find leaders who find leaders to move the mission of Jesus forward. And oh, and how are you going to do it? Through love. They're going to know you're my disciples, by the way. You love one another.
Speaker 2:It's not? That sounds like so kind of simple and I just kind of. That is a hard thing to do, because Satan doesn't want us to have a vision toward the future. Satan wants us to hide from the truth of strategy that is maybe once worked and now no longer does, and Satan wants to lead us to see our brothers and sisters as the enemy. So this is a major spiritual battle that we're immersed in right now. And, yeah, I'm just praying for honesty, I'm praying for vision, I'm praying for love right alongside you, chris. That's why I had you on here today. This has been so much fun, jack. Any kind of final thoughts before you? Let Chris close us down here today, this has been so much fun, jack.
Speaker 4:Any kind of final thoughts before we let Chris close us down? No, I'm just thankful to get to hear all the great works that this charity is doing and to know that this is something that is a product of the church body that we all love and value, and I'm just really looking forward to seeing how churches can continue to collaborate with what you're doing and use that in a really winsome way to be a positive influence in the local community and actually think about ministry as something that happens outside our walls every day.
Speaker 2:Thank, you yeah, yeah. Any closing thoughts, chris?
Speaker 3:You know, just one observation, you know, as we were kind of as you kind of wrapping up there, some things you said triggered one story that I just want to leave you with. That I think really kind of describes it, and that is we LCC got called out to respond to the Pulse nightclub shooting an LGTBQ you know venue. And one of the things that I observed in interviewing our staff and our team about that deployment was we heard two things. We heard two things from the church. We heard some voices say why are you going there? And we also heard thank you for going there. When we got there, our teams got there, we had this community there and one of the things we heard from them was why are you here? And we also heard, wow, you're here.
Speaker 3:And all I kept thinking about is like that's such a perfect picture to me of where Jesus was while he walked with us. He had the church leaders going who are you and why are you here? And he also had church people going thank you, jesus, thank you going. Who are you and why are you here? And he also had church people going thank you, jesus, thank you. And he had people who were, you know, absolutely against Judaism and the whole belief structure of the Old Testament, saying you know who are you and what right do you have to be here? And then you got others going. Wow, I think there's something to this and I pray that you know that's the church, right? That's the church that we need to be as people, not just as LCC. That's who we are called to be as we continue to follow Jesus.
Speaker 4:Amen to that Wherever there's pain when the early church built hospitals. They didn't put conditions on people's sin about receiving care, about hospitals.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. Wherever there's pain and suffering and spiritual suffering, which is our ultimate need, forgiveness of sins and a right relationship with. God, the church has to be there. Jesus came for sinners, not the well. He came for the sick, not the put together. And if we focus on that man, the LCMS is in for a wonderful, wonderful turn in mission, never compromising our confession that Jesus is Lord. Jack, I need 50K, jack, I desperately need 50K. Why? For a comfort dog bro.
Speaker 4:I need a comfort dog let's get it.
Speaker 2:I need 100K Jack because I got six people that are ready to be trained right now in our spiritual care team. I really do that.
Speaker 4:I think the comfort dog.
Speaker 2:This is the season for the dog, let's go. So if people want to connect with you, jack you. We can talk about this later. And, chris, we may be calling you and getting getting some counseling. We can't say yes to everything I want to say yes to a dog jack anyway, uh chris, if people want to be yes and your no, be no tim yeah well, the yes, is toward the dog jack.
Speaker 2:We're in budget season right now. Let's go anyway. If people want to connect with you, chris, and Lutheran Church Charities, how can they do so?
Speaker 3:Yeah, go to lutheranchurchcharitiesorg. You'll find our contact information there and you can reach out to us through there.
Speaker 2:Excellent, excellent. It's a good day. Go make it a great day, jack. Chris, wonderful conversation and we'll be back very, very soon. If you're listening to this, we're actually going to be testing a new concept coming up here. So we're releasing two podcasts a week. Tuesdays are when Lead Time come out. American Reformation comes out on Wednesdays, but then we're going to have a Lead Time 30-minute kind of bit called Hot Topic Friday. Hot Topic Friday. So, chris, may be looking for what we're going to say there's going to be a countdown and we're going to say there's going to be a countdown and we're going to give you maybe a controversial, three controversial topics and you get to talk about them in conversation with Jack or I in a 10 minute little bit. And so it's going to be. It's going to be fun. Watch out for Hot Topic Friday coming from lead time very, very soon.
Speaker 4:Thanks so much, guys. It doesn't have to be controversial, but it's got to be hot.
Speaker 2:Well, controversy is hot, jack, let's go, we're in Phoenix. Everything's hot down here, so we'll be back soon with another episode of Lead Time. Thanks Jack, thanks Chris, god bless, thank you.
Speaker 1:You've been listening to Lead Time, a podcast of the Unite Leadership Collective. The ULC's mission is to collaborate with the local church to discover, develop and deploy leaders through biblical Lutheran doctrine and innovative methods To partner with us in this gospel message. Subscribe to our channel, then go to theuniteleadershiporg to create your free login for exclusive material and resources and then to explore ways in which you can sponsor an episode. Thanks for listening and stay tuned for next week's episode.