Fortitude
Everyone has a story of Fortitude! When we tell our stories of pain in adversity - stories of courage, redemption and hope - we give others permission to speak up and get the help they need. Each episode will give the listener a look inside what overcoming adversity looks like no matter what life throws at you. Each story is uniquely different - stories of alcoholism/addiction, infidelity, rape, abuse, loss of a child/children, cancer, rare disease, tragic accidents...etc.! We are in this life together to support one another and build community around hope and redemption. I am your host, Heather Kittelson, and I am so excited to have you here as part of the Fortitude community!
Fortitude
#40: Angela Drake - Loud Mouth Mama - Tackling Suicide with Compassion and Courage
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After the loss of her daughter Brittany in March of 2016, Angela Drake has made it her mission to channel her grief into hope, resources, and support for others. She is the Founder of Fight Like A Ninja and Owner of TWO MEN AND A TRUCK. She will forever stand in this world as a proud, Loud Mouth Mama of 2 amazing girls!
In this deeply moving episode of "Fortitude," hosts Amos and Heather Kittelson welcome Angela Drake, a mother turned advocate, who shares her heart-wrenching journey through the loss of her daughter, Brittany, to suicide.
Angela opens up about the challenges of navigating mental health struggles, the importance of open conversations about suicide, and how she's channeled her grief into a powerful mission to prevent others from experiencing similar loss.
Through her story, Angela emphasizes the significance of empathy, understanding, and the critical role of support systems like the 988 crisis hotline. This episode is a testament to the strength found in vulnerability and the impact of advocacy in the fight against the mental health crisis and suicide.
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Just a heads up, this episode deals with some pretty sensitive issues. So, parents, before you listen with your kids, we ask that you listen first. Thanks so much.
SPEAKER_00Here comes the sun do. Here comes the sun da say. It's all right.
SPEAKER_03Hello, fortitude audience. My name is Heather Kittelson, and I am your host. And I am sitting here with my um who are you today? You're my wonderful, loving, caring, amazing husband, father of my children. The one who keeps me on task. You are very, very valued.
SPEAKER_04Hello. Hello.
SPEAKER_03And with today in our studio, we have Angela Drake with us. We want to say hello. Hello. Angela and I have known each other for, I would say, about six to seven years. And when we first met, we had people from both of our circles saying, You need to meet each other. You need to have coffee with one another. And I was so grateful that we met that day. Um, and I think it was about a two and a half hour conversation. And by the time we left, we were a puddles. We had cried, we we shared a lot of deep moments with one another. And so since then it's been game on. Yeah. Now you're just in my heart. Always. Always. And um, our friendship has continued to grow. And I've continued to watch the amazing things that you're doing all over the region, Angela. It's very inspiring. And you're a mama who is lit up, ready to charge out into this world and change lives and in in memory of Britney. And it's an it's an amazing thing to watch. You're gonna make me cry already. So let's go to some less teary information for a second and just tell our audience who you are. Um, we have people all over the world that listen to this podcast. So the references of of towns, we Sioux Falls, South Dakota is where we where you're from, right? Like not originally though. Um, I grew up in Huron. Okay.
SPEAKER_02South South Dakota. So I'm a South Dakota girl through and through. Um, so you know, that's that's where I but I've been here in Sioux Falls now for over 26 years. So this is home.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And your girls grew up here in Sioux Falls. They grew up in T. Oh, in T. Okay. Well, Sioux Falls and T. Yeah. Which is a little suburb-ish of Sioux Falls. Um, so tell us a little more about like what you do for a job and your family and just lead into that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I am so grateful for everything that I have. And first and foremost, before we talk about anything, I just want everybody to know it's okay to laugh, it's okay to cry, it's okay to feel whatever you're feeling. But if you're worried about yourself and your feelings or somebody else's, please call 988. Yeah. So I'm a Lab Mouth mama for a reason and it comes with a mission. So um, yeah. So I was born and raised in Huron and um went away to beauty school in the late 90s um in Watertown and then moved back to my hometown where Brittany was born, and then shortly thereafter moved to Sioux Falls. And my journey has been full of all kinds of fun changes and things throughout my career. Now I am a proud owner of Two Men in a Truck, Two Men in a Junk Truck, and a loudmouth mama, um, nonprofit founder of Fight Like a Ninja.
SPEAKER_03And when you say you're the owner of Two Men in a Truck, did you start it?
SPEAKER_02No, it's a franchise. Yes. Okay. There's over 400 here in the US. Um, so I am a small part of several of them now. Um, but you know, open the doors here in Sioux Falls. And then you just recently launched Two Men in a Junk Truck. Yeah. How's that going? So good. Uh I can't believe I'm so overwhelmed by how amazing it is.
SPEAKER_03Okay. So let's just for a second talk about that because we in small little towns, we sometimes have junk days. Some some towns do not. And um, so do you can you how far out do you travel to go pick up big things, small things, just junk. There's a lot of junk in our world. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02We have so much to clean out emotionally, physically, all the things. Um, so we'll go in and take um, not your trash, but your junk. Um, and then hopefully through landfill diversion, find a community partner to pick that up.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um we go probably within about a hundred, 150 mile radius of Sioux Falls. Um, but there are other two men in a junk truck throughout the country.
SPEAKER_03There are. Okay. Cause I was just thinking about that and how wonderful it, because one person's junk could be another person's treasure, right? And I mean, you have people, we run around hills, our our boys do, and they're like, look what we found. This is so cool, you know. So partnering with other nonprofits that someone didn't want this table, that's actually kind of nice. You could partner with another nonprofit and stuff. So it's a it's a neat, neat thing to watch what you're doing. So thank you for that.
SPEAKER_02Thank you.
SPEAKER_03Um so what we're talking about today is suicide. And it is a, it's a very touchy, it's a it's a touchy subject for a lot for for people who've never experienced it, but they hear of it, they know of it, they don't know how to uh console people that have experienced it firsthand, some loved one. Um, and unfortunately, suicide is a really big deal right now. Yes. It is, there are a lot of people that are have no hope and have lost hope and are really in some unique positions and um choose the latter. And we're hearing like every all ages. It's not, it's not a specific age, it's not a specific gender. It is, it's like it is, um, it does not discriminate. No.
SPEAKER_02No. Men, women, children, millionaires, and poverty level, it comes from everywhere. Yeah. Um, I often describe the feeling that somebody's in in that moment of suicidal crisis as they're standing on a building that's on fire and they can't see the fire trucks coming through the flames. And so they feel like they have no other option when they're fighting their brain that hard.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's a really great analogy. Um the reason you are so passionate is because you also have gone through a very terrible situation. And so if you are open to going there, Angela, um, the tears already are gone. It is so hard. Um, but you have one of you have two beautiful daughters. I do, I'm two, uh, Britney and Butchie, man, both those girls, the pictures that our audience will be um privileged to see. They're so beautiful. Yes. And when Brittany was 17 years old, you guys went through a really tough time. And so if you can take us there, that would be Yeah.
SPEAKER_02From the time Britney was about 12 to 17, we fought a very long mental health battle.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um, with everything that I had. And I screamed and I shouted for all the help that we could find. And we partnered with some amazing physicians and and psychologists to go through that fight. And I fought for everything in my single mom back pocket that I had. And unfortunately, on March 24th, 2016, Brittany's battle was over. And she had taken her life just five days before she turned 18.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_03When you say that you battled a uh that period of time with mental health, was there was there any specific thing that triggered her struggle?
SPEAKER_02You know, everybody's always looking for that one thing that put them over the edge. There isn't. Okay. It is a culmination of the perfect storm of all the things coming together. If it was just one thing, girl, we could check the box and be done with all this, right? But it's not. It's not because somebody broke up with their girlfriend or failed a test or anything like that. It's a culmination of so many things put together that takes somebody to that point of suicidal crisis.
SPEAKER_03When you look at everything that is currently going on in our world, and I, you know, they're talking a lot about nutrition and they're talking a lot about the different types of medications, and they're talking like they're trying so hard to get to the bottom of the mental health crisis in suicide. And what it what are your thoughts on the overall of what? Because when you lose your baby girl to suicide, and then now you're looking at, I mean, you're you're a huge advocate. I mean, you are true, you're out there just screaming from like, what do you call loudmouth mama? Or there's a few other things. God gave me this big mouth for a reason. Yeah. Big mouth mama. And um you're not shy to be just, you're out there. You're like, listen up. This is not something to mess around with.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_03And it's not something to be ashamed of.
SPEAKER_04No.
SPEAKER_02And I think that's the biggest thing we all have to use our loud mouths for is to make sure that I'm not just telling my story to tell it. Right. Or, and I don't want your sympathy. I don't want any of that. What I want is that next person to feel safe to tell theirs and go second and talk about what they need. So hopefully we don't have to have any more Britney's stories.
SPEAKER_03What if someone doesn't know how to express what they need?
SPEAKER_02So that's the hardest thing, right? We don't know everything that our mind is doing. And when we're in the fight for our life against our own self, our own brain, what do we do? And there's so many ways that you can just scream and shout to somebody. Or, you know what? We as friends and good humans need to make sure we're not just asking people to reach out for help, but we're also reaching in and asking that question are you okay? And if you don't feel right about their answer, ask them directly. Do you feel like you may take your life? And then hold your breath, right? Because that's a scary question. Yeah. But you know what that does? It allows that person to know that you're safe to talk to and that they can help you through to the next steps. So if you ask that question and they say yes, tell them thank you for trusting you. Yeah. You're not calling the police and coming sirens ablazing. We're just gonna talk through where you're at right now and determine from there do we need to call 988? I'm not a medical professional. I can't diagnose you, I can't fix it. What I can do is hold your hand on the journey. And so calling 988 is gonna give you the resources to help. It's like 90 some percent of all calls handled by 988 for suicidal crisis are handled on that call. So rarely is anyone coming out to handle it, they're gonna help you over the phone. They're gonna listen. They're not gonna tell you what to do, they're just listening. But they're gonna give you some resources for the spot that you're sitting in and then follow up with you later about how those resources helped or didn't help and where we need to go from here.
SPEAKER_03Thank you for that. That's a this really good advice for those who really don't know. They just don't know where to go or who to talk to. For I mean, even when we went through what I was going through, I didn't feel like I could talk to anyone because I was so scared that someone was gonna put me on watch. Someone was gonna all of a sudden, here we go. I'm in the ambulance. And you know, I just it's we don't want to create a scene.
SPEAKER_02No, at all. When you're in that moment of suicidal crisis, you don't want to be a burden to anyone. That's that's why you're there. Yeah, that's part of the reason that you're in that moment. And so knowing that 988 is not coming guns ablazing or anything like that to haul you away or put you on a watch. Yeah, they want to truly listen and help. And I think so many people are scared to call because somebody's gonna show up and put them on a hold or something like that. And that's not at all what's gonna happen for over 90% of the time.
SPEAKER_03Is 998 a South Dakota thing or a national?
SPEAKER_02It's a national thing.
SPEAKER_03All right.
SPEAKER_02Praise God that that passed, um, that law passed, and we got 988 instead of the big long 800 number that no one knew what it was. Yeah. Um, and how do you memorize that? And when you're in a crisis, you're still not thinking straight. So three numbers is a whole lot easier than you know, eight. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And we don't have an operator to call anymore that can you connect me, please?
SPEAKER_01That was a thing.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_01So the that originally the question, are you thinking about harming yourself?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's a hard one. I mean, there is a struggle there to just be asked the question. Right. What um can you give us some behind the scenes? What are we thinking? Why why are we so hesitant to ask the question? What can we do to overcome that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because we think we're gonna put it in their head and tell them that that's what they're supposed to be thinking and feeling right now. And and here's the thing anyone that's suicidal, you didn't make them suicidal because you asked if they were. What that question does is opens up the door to helping and allows them to know, gosh, they're safe. They're comfortable talking about this difficult topic. But again, if you're the one asking, it's not your job to fix them. Just like if your friend had a broken arm, would you put their cast on? I might, yeah.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_03Well, are you asking me that question, Angela?
SPEAKER_02Okay, no, I would not. Right, because I'm not a professional orthopedic person to put a cast on. But what I would do is take my friend to the hospital to get the treatment and help that they need. Um, because they may be feeling suicidal, does that mean that they're gonna be admitted? No. They may just need some more therapy, they may need a change in medications, they may just need to scream and shout for a while. But it's that three-pronged approach, you know, it's behavioral, it's it's um biological as well as that talk therapy. So all of those things working together is what somebody needs.
SPEAKER_03And having been at rock bottom in that moment and to be where I am today, it's so pivotal to really, really have someone safe to walk you through that and start pulling you out of the pit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And yet, like I look at also it's Brittany was there and you walked her through it all. You helped you, you did everything you could to get her help, you know? And so the outcome, like I look at the outcome of people's different scenarios and situations, and it's so hard to wrap my head around, right?
SPEAKER_02Like mine too, yeah. And I know one million percent in my head we did everything that we could within the means that we had available in my heart. I'm her mama. Yeah, I was supposed to fix it and get everything that she needed. And so I have that fine balance of failing and succeeding in so many different options. But no matter what, she's gone. What I did was never enough in my heart, and that's that's the hardest thing ever. Because as a mama, we're supposed to be the ones to protect them from everything. Yeah. But I just know now in my head, of course, that we didn't have the research to save Brittany at the time she needed it.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02And that's why with every medical condition, the research needs to continue so we can help the next one that we weren't able to right now.
SPEAKER_03You look where we've come in eight years. Oh, it's 2016. Um, I like to say that the devil messed with the wrong mama when it comes because because of the advocacy, because of the the awareness that you are shouting. And there's a lot more people who are like, oh no, no, no, this is getting this is off the rails. This is too much. Yeah. Like you've you've wreaked havoc, devil, and we are not allowing this anymore.
SPEAKER_02So I have been fighting for mental health for my loved ones for the last 25 years. I have seen some amazing changes happen. But boy, do we have a long way to go.
SPEAKER_01Yep. You said something uh that that hits me. If someone asked me, do you have any regrets in life? And for all those moments where I did the best I could with them with the information I have, yeah, I have or go back and go do the same thing again, live it, live it, you know, live it again, I would probably make the exact same decisions.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_01Because that's the data I have. And I have the best intentions. And I don't I don't know if that helps anyone who who's hearing this, but I mean if you're doing the best you can with what you have, that's the best you can do.
SPEAKER_02And in your head, you can come to understand that. But in your heart, it's harder to time. I wouldn't say that I'm at peace with Britney being gone, because I never will be. But I understand more. And I know more in my heart that if this is the pain we're all left with without her here, the pain she had fighting her own brain was bigger. Because she would have never left us in this kind of pain if she wasn't in more.
SPEAKER_01Are you about to go there, Mama? Go ahead. The brains, the brain stuff.
SPEAKER_03No.
SPEAKER_01I think I try to relate to this. I'm not one who's who suffers from depression or mental disorder that I know of. Heather and some days, but you're good.
SPEAKER_02We all have our own battles at different levels, I promise.
SPEAKER_01You ask me, have you ever had a downtime? I think I would say I I'm pretty positive. I think I had a downtime one time.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But actually, I have been. There were a couple of times where I know my brain just just switched into like a depression mode. And it was really, it was a really uh those were interesting experiences for me. Yeah, because I look back now and go, wow, you were like, you were really incapacitated. I wasn't capacitated during those moments. I had a hard time moving. There's just you know, like a half-hour period.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And that's the brain fighting itself. That's you fighting the brain, isn't it? And it truly is, it's it's unless you've experienced it, it's hard to empathize and relate. It is. Can you go into that a little bit?
SPEAKER_02You know, when Brittany's battles first started, I was like, would you just stop? Look at everything that you have. Look at how amazing these things are that you already have here. How could you want to leave this? We all love you. You have everything that you need and most of what you want. And man, you have people that show up for you every single day. And I would just sit constantly tell her this. And then now looking back, you know, that's the information I had, right? Now that I know better, I can do better. And throughout her battle, I learned better that it isn't about pointing out what they have. It is about sitting with them in that darkness and saying, I'm really sorry this is happening. What can we do next? What's our next step? Where are you at today? And it's not telling them what to do.
SPEAKER_01So the intuitive thing is to paint a brighter picture.
SPEAKER_02We want to fix it, right?
SPEAKER_01Like a the positive to the negative. Let's try to even this out. And that's not the that's not the answer. That provides guilt.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03It provides a because I you sit there and you go, Yeah, I have all this stuff, and yet it's not enough.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Like he's not enough, the kids aren't enough, my mom's not enough, no one's enough. Yeah. And then you feel guilty that you can't get there, that you can't make it enough. Like, what is so wrong with me that I am so ungrateful and in so much pain? And yet I have people that would trade spots with me in my life a thousand percent. Absolutely. So then the guilt and the shame just starts ripping another bigger hole in your heart and in your head. It's and that's where that vicious cycle continues.
SPEAKER_02So it it may be what do you have going on this afternoon that you're looking forward to? And finding that. And sometimes it's an hour away, sometimes it's a day away, sometimes it's a week away, sometimes it's a month away. Those are the things that what what's the next thing you're looking into? What's it that you're interested in?
SPEAKER_01So ask just asking questions. Let's go ahead and ask questions.
SPEAKER_02And God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason. As my grandmother always tells me, you need to listen twice as hard as you speak. And when you're listening to somebody, listen to listen. Don't listen to respond. Because truly that's where they need you. They need you just to listen, not to fix it, but to listen to where they are and try to find that empathy in your heart for them and hold their hand through it. Now, obviously, if somebody says that they're suicidal and they have a plan, and here's how they're doing it, and here's when they're doing it, we want to address that. And get them to the help that they desperately need in that moment. Most people don't want to die by suicide. They just don't know how to keep living.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And the pain that you feel like you're causing everybody around you, it's just life will be easier for all of them if I'm just gone. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's Yeah, Heather, you went through that.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01When you told me that, that was that was mind-blowing to me. I think it's still hard to comprehend.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it is.
SPEAKER_01The brain butting itself. When you when you say ask the questions. Do more listening.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What is what's the deeper and intent there? What is the what's the what's going through the person, your loved one's mind as you're asking those questions?
SPEAKER_02They care. And they can feel that when you're listening. No judgment, no, no solutions right in that moment. It is simply about lay it on me. And so often we carry so many heavy things, and we we feel like we're carrying those alone. And that big, huge rock that we've got to lift up every day with those heavy things gets so big we can't do it anymore, especially alone. But if we get several of us that can pick up that big rock together, those heaviest of things are best carried together.
SPEAKER_01And what's the connection with what you said just a moment ago? Which was they don't want to, they don't want to die, they don't know how to continue living.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What's the connection?
SPEAKER_02It's their brain fighting against them, telling them that you're not good enough, you're not worthy to be here, you don't deserve this. And the biggest battle that we ever fight is against our own brains and our own thoughts.
SPEAKER_01It's which is ruining your entire body.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So then that's where it leads me into the conversation of faith. Because in affirmations and speaking truth. Yeah. Because it's a rewiring. Yeah. It's a 100% rewiring. I know there's medications for it to help. Yes. To help with that whole process, or to have therapy go to the go to a therapist, go to a counselor, talk, just talk, get it out. Yeah. And then to rewire, it's a thing, like to rewire your brain and to have the Lord's help in that. And um to get someone, it's like this, it's really crazy because it's like all of a sudden, just one day you feel this like, okay, I'm gonna switch the words. I'm gonna switch the words and I'm going to say, I am enough. I am, and people love me. And gosh darn it, I belong here on this earth and I have a purpose. And it's like those words to just put because even even if you we say those words to someone, I it it bounces right off when you're in that dark hole.
SPEAKER_02It's telling those thoughts in your head. Stop talking about myself like that. I deserve better. And getting to a place where you can do that. Yeah. You know, I wouldn't let anyone else talk about another friend of mine, the way that my brain talks about me. And so it's almost like some days just verbally saying, Angela, what are you saying to yourself? That's not fair.
SPEAKER_03Into a mirror. Yes. Like it's powerful when you do it to yourself in the mirror and you look yourself in the eyeballs. Yeah. If you don't have a mirror in front of you, turn your phone on selfie mode and start talking to yourself. Because the words that we say in our head are brutal. Yeah. And if someone was in my head, I always tell Amos, I wish I could get in his head.
SPEAKER_01Cause he's messy, honey. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Messy up there. I have 975 tabs open in my brain right now, and no one wants in there.
SPEAKER_03I can come in and help you organize them. Shut that one down. Shut that one down. But there's a it's interesting how the more and more and more I prayed and the more I begged. It's it's like that the nudges we talk about. Yeah. Even I I wasn't open and honest with Amos. He saw it, he witnessed, he he knew something was up.
SPEAKER_01I didn't know I I didn't know it was that bad.
SPEAKER_03So I I wasn't sharing because I was still trying everything I could to make sure nobody knew. Right. And so it's like I was still living in the dark while walking in the daylight. And to think that, to think back to that and go, no, nobody, nobody knew. And I, and yet, like I would still have these deep, dark, terrible thoughts. But I could portray that that was not going on in my head. But I would get in my car and then it was just over and over. And I would rebuke the devil. I would say, devil, you are not allowed in my head. You are not allowed. And I would do everything I could to plead with God, like, send, do something, because this is getting really bad. And even if he didn't in the moment in my head stop it, he did by turning Amos's car around. And so I firmly believe that when you're in those, those moments crying out to him and being in the moment of if I can't save myself, send the person who's going to crack it, who's going to open it and crack it for me. Because I'm not doing it on my own. As far as like, I mean, I'm checked out, I'm done. So, and the fact that he turned Amos's car around and Kate came. Like, I believe that we, there are people that have the capacity as a community and as people, even someone you may not know, that will crack that. Right? Right.
SPEAKER_02And I will tell you, with my fight with the big guy up there, Brittany reached out before she passed away a few months, and she said, Mom, can we go to church? And I said, We'll go to any church you want. Yeah. I'm Catholic. She didn't like Catholic aerobics. Um, so we went to several different churches, and she never found the home that she was looking for. So we went to Catholic Mass, the teen mass. And she was like, Yeah, this is good. And so she was reaching for more from him. And he and I have gone some rounds. I promise you. And he can he can handle all my F-bombs and all my MFs and all of the words that I just needed to scream because he is almighty and he can handle our anger and our frustration and still love us back. And I screamed and I shouted at him the night she died so hard.
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_02And why didn't you get me home? Why didn't you get me there to help her and save her? And the morning after she died, I laid in that hotel bed. And I said, I'm never getting out of this bed ever again. Ever. And I said to God, I'm like, oh dear God, you know how mad I am. You know how angry I am with you. But I promise you, if you give me the strength to get up, I will forever use this big mouth you gave me to do more and be more. And I literally felt a light enter my head and go all the way to my toes to give me enough hope to get up out of that bed. Because I knew I didn't have any then. And so he gave me enough hope to stay in my pockets forever. And I don't know how, because I was so mad, and I still am.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But I know now that I can get up and I can keep going. And for years, all I did was take care of everybody else.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I wanted to go there. So how the morning, the morning of like helping Butchie and how you dealt with that whole process for years.
SPEAKER_02The hardest part of our grief is seeing those that we love grieve so hard. And losing Brittany was the worst thing in my life. But seeing Butchie have to struggle with it all, too, was even worse. And so I went into fierce mama mode to take care of her. And of course, to take care of everyone. I was making sandwiches at her funeral, making sure that everybody was eating, making sure that everybody had everything that they needed. And I didn't know how to not do that. I had to take care of everything and do everything. And I was back to work in two days. I was, you know, not at full capacity, but I didn't know how to keep going. But I didn't know how to stop either. And I went through obviously a whole lot of therapy. Which, if you're not in therapy, please find one. And I I when I was mad, I screamed at God. When I was mad, I threw things and did things that I needed to do within a safe space. Because I was sitting in, I was sitting in the manure and the darkness. And when God put light on it, I planted those seeds of hope that He gave me in that manure. And I started to see some flowers grow. And I started to see the world in color again. But then I got too busy tending all these flowers. And I got sicker and wasn't taking care of myself.
SPEAKER_03Did you figure that out or did someone point that out to you?
SPEAKER_02Oh, my therapist did. Um, the most amazing therapist in the whole wide world that called me on every single thing all the time.
SPEAKER_01Called you out in the sessions.
SPEAKER_02Called me out big and bad. And a couple years after Britney died, I went through a major health concern. And that really just was like God just putting a hammer on my head saying, What are you doing? Take care of yourself.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so then I humbly let people help me.
SPEAKER_03So scary. So scary. And then felt so good, didn't it?
SPEAKER_02It is.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because as much as I love to help other people, other people being able to help me helps them too. So crazy, right? Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Like let me love on you. Cause that fun. I like it gives me, fills my bucket to love on you. Yeah. Yes. And yet we do the, but I don't need anything. But yes, we do.
SPEAKER_02Okay. I'm fine. I'm okay. We're fine.
SPEAKER_03I'm fine. It's fine. I'm fine.
SPEAKER_02Everything's fine.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Big old BS flag on that one. Right. So when so what did you do? What did you do to take care of yourself?
SPEAKER_02I really began just searching inside for what I needed for me, not anybody else. Just me. Was that so hard? It was. So yeah. Because every time I think, oh, I could this is something I need. I know, but ABC and DEF also need it. I should probably let them have it. Or I don't have time to do it for myself if I'm doing it for everybody else.
SPEAKER_01Can you can you give us an example?
SPEAKER_02Um, going for a walk every day or sitting in my own thoughts and journaling every day or something that I have to do. It's a promise I made to myself. And I'll tell you, I don't break promises to other people, but I sure as heck break them to myself all the time. So there were days it would be 11:50, and I hadn't gone for a walk. I hadn't journaled yet, but it's 1150 and I promised I was gonna do it today. I promised myself. So start holding, starting to hold myself accountable to the things I promised myself as much as I promised everybody else. My stuff goes on my calendar now, too. My stuff for me, as much as it does to have coffee with Heather.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And it makes a huge difference. Huge. Prioritizing ourselves is not selfish.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's not. Like I think it is, it is a necessity that we do. It we're taught younger, yeah. When we're younger that, you know, I and I say it to my girls too all the time like make sure you're always helping take care of others when that you see a need. Yeah. When you see a need, um, try to fill that need for picking something up or, you know, walking someone across the street or whatever it is. But always make sure you're taking care of yourself.
SPEAKER_02And I think we've done a good job of teaching our kids that and giving them that permission. Yeah. We need to give ourselves that same permission too. And when Britney died, she had used her um Christmas gift card from Barnes and Noble to buy me good books on how to grieve, and she left those for me.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Really? Yeah. Oh my.
SPEAKER_02Um and she left me like YouTube clips and songs and all of these things. So she was wanting to make sure that I took care of myself. And if it was that important to her when she couldn't do anything else, I need to do that for her.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04Oh, that was really thoughtful.
SPEAKER_02Like that has hurt in a nutshell.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Something that we have talked about is the verbiage. Yes. And um, I did not realize this because it was just the lack of knowledge, and that is the phrase committing suicide. You'll hear people say that they committed suicide. And from all the studies and everything that you've, all the advocacy, the times you're speaking to schools, that is not the right phrase.
SPEAKER_02Words matter. They do. And we really are working to reframe mental health as a health condition. So when we use those words, it's like they had a choice in it. No one has a choice to have this happen. No one has a choice to be fighting against their brain like that. So we want to use words more like they took their life. They died by suicide. And that reframes how people are looking at it. And so it's not a successful suicide attempt or an unsuccessful suicide attempt. Those ones hurt my heart really hard because then if they say, if we tell them they were unsuccessful at taking their life, they feel more like a failure. Wow. Well, we see it as amazing that they didn't succeed. They hear another failure happened.
SPEAKER_03I couldn't even do that right. Yeah. Like that that would inter couldn't even do that right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So using using the proper words reframes it as the health condition that it is, so that people can feel safe to go get that help. Yeah. If my blood pressure is sky high, probably gonna go see the doctor. Whereas if these thoughts in my brain are that hot and that much, I need to give myself the same permission to go see my physician.
SPEAKER_03That's pivotal. And then for a community for someone who wants to come and talk to you about it, it's the same kind of conversations we've had about um here with those who um are quadriplegic, who are in a wheelchair, who you see that they what would the worldly phrase would be, well, they're not normal. There's something different about them. Yeah. Well, yeah, they're in a wheelchair. Right. None of us.
SPEAKER_02Let me meet somebody that's normal.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So people are really careful and I guess a little sensitive to how they approach a situation like that. And for you and I, it's approaching it with kindness, good intent, and love.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03There, like you said, your words matter.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03So to be in the shoes of someone who has had their beautiful girl take their life, what kind of conversations have you had that are good and bad? Like shouldn't do, and this was awesome.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. You know, I always have people come up and ask, Well, what happened? Why did she do that? You think I know? When you ask me that, man, I feel terrible. Okay. Because I don't know either. And I will never know until I get up there with her and the big guy and we have a long conversation. Yeah. And those hurt. Okay. And I know it's well wishes and meaning well, but we don't, we don't, when we know better, we do better.
SPEAKER_03I do believe some people, though, are their intent is not good.
SPEAKER_02Right. Some people are just nosy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, nosy and um have their views or their perspective on suicide. And so it they do say it's selfish. They do say that they had a choice. They do have these, and I I hear it a lot when people phrase it that way. And it and it hurts because in the moment, I mean, when people don't know my story or don't know your story, and then you hear those phrases. It's like, I just wish people would approach it more with kindness and just good intent. And we all have a story. People don't know.
SPEAKER_02And I was so grateful as a Catholic to have the priest that I had respond. And I said, But you know, I've always been taught she doesn't get to go to heaven. And he sat me down and he said, Oh, Angela, God knows how sick she was. He opened up his arms so big to welcome her because she was sick. And I needed that so much that night to know that she was going to be welcomed into the kingdom.
SPEAKER_01Pastor Craig Groschel of Lifechurch.tv has episodes where he talks about hard questions, and that's one of them that he addressed. And he he he characterized it as like it's a person's last sin, which is squashed by the blood of Christ.
unknownSo yeah.
SPEAKER_03You better believe you have a conversation with him.
SPEAKER_02I mean, oh, we are gonna have some words.
SPEAKER_03It's man he can handle it. Yes, he can. What was something that was super touching, Angela, that you were just so grateful for? I mean, the priest was a perfect example of him verbalizing that to you. Um, because that changed the trajectory of even what goes on in your mind, right? Um, what's something that a normal, just like a normal Heather would have would have done for you? Okay for you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I had a friend that showed up and just said, I'm here. I'm gonna be in your space for whatever you need. And I didn't know what I needed. And she just showed up and sat with me. No questions, no, no fixing anything, just showed up. I needed somebody to come into my world because I could not go into anybody else's at that time. I didn't need a casserole, I didn't need flowers, I didn't need any of those things. I just needed somebody that was there.
SPEAKER_01Is that hang out at your house? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02We just sat on the sofa, we barely talked. But I just I felt I didn't have a partner when I was going through this. And I still don't. So if you know somebody.
SPEAKER_03Um little shout out from us also.
SPEAKER_02I didn't have that. And so often we grieve differently than our partners do anyway.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I certainly was grieving different than Wugie was. And I couldn't put that on her to take care of me too. So having that friend just come in and be in my space just to be there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Was a thousand times what I needed.
SPEAKER_03I hear this over and over. And that it's it's the same. We get we get a pretty unique same response of just don't ask questions, don't try to fix it, just sit with me. To show up. Yeah. Because isolation is the it is the hardest place to be when you're in mourning or when you are sick or any of that. Just to have someone with you who is just silent and present, physical, physically there that you can touch. And just be like, okay, thank you. Yes. Thank you here. Okay.
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_03Wow, Angela. Um how can I, we'll have things in the show notes with Fight Like a Ninja and things that you are doing to advocate raising money so that you can continue to shout out that big mouth all over. And so speaking to schools, what is just give us a couple things that as we're closing up here of what is some of your favorite things to do in that space? Like what who do you love to speak to?
SPEAKER_02And yeah, ideally, if I can take talk to the kids in the morning and the parents in the afternoon or evening.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um, hearing the same message in the same day, but separately gives you guys a conversation to start.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_02Um, and so many parents have no idea they need to have this conversation with their kids. You know, we have to talk to our kids about God and sex and all those weird, awkward conversations sometimes, right? This needs to be one of those things. Yes, it does. It's awkward and it's hard. But if we don't do it, they're gonna think they can't.
SPEAKER_03And this and it's happening all over. Like our Brittany is always why who why they we've we've attended several funerals in that space recently. And they're like, Well, why would he do that? What is he, what, how did he do it? You know, so they it's happening around them. They're hearing about it. So we need to have that conversation with them.
SPEAKER_02And making sure our kids know that it's okay to reach out for help. And it doesn't have to be to us. Yeah. Just another trusted adult.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Thank you. This has been beautiful. Thank you for sharing your story. Thanks for sharing Britney with us. Thank you. And for sharing your Britney with me. I know. That sweet rock that Britney. My Britney made her a rock. We made our br our Britney made her a rock. And it sits on her mantle. It has Britney's name on it. They spelled it the same way. Yeah. The right way. The right way. Well, we love you. We love you so much. And be big. This journey is fun to be on with you. So thank you, Angela.
SPEAKER_01Thanks so much. Thank you so much for listening. We want to change lives through this podcast. And if you want to support this podcast or our guests, please see the links below for our Patreon and giving links.
SPEAKER_03And like and subscribe and also share our podcast as much as possible. Thank you.