Aubrey’s Story; Navigating Infertility With Faith

Have you ever found yourself feeling like a round peg trying to fit into a square hole? Our guest, Aubrey, opens up about her struggles with infertility and how her faith has guided her through this challenging time. She shares her personal journey, from a young woman in the church to the strength she finds in her faith while dealing with infertility. We have an intimate discussion about the emotional complexities of this struggle, offering a ray of hope for those silently suffering, and assuring them that it's okay to feel out of place in life.

Imagine accepting God's timing even when it doesn't align with your own - a scenario familiar to many women in the LDS Church when it comes to having children. Aubrey's journey takes us through stories of women in the Bible who faced similar struggles, emphasizing the enormity of faith that carried them through. We explore how trials can shape us into the people God wants us to be, how they can enhance our relationships and how gratitude can be found even in times of distress.

We wrap our conversation by reflecting on the role of faith and atonement in our lives. Aubrey shares her powerful testimony of how Christ's suffering for us provides comfort and solace during challenging times. We talk about the value of understanding and utilizing our agency in our relationship with God and how learning to hear God's voice can grow over time. This episode culminates with a story of self-discovery, emphasizing that sometimes God's plan involves learning more about ourselves before we journey into life's major milestones. If you're seeking comfort, support, and inspiration in navigating the storms of life, this episode is a must-listen.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:23

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Remember Podcast. Happy to be here. Today is an exciting day. I'm so friggin stoked today Because we've got Tresden here with us and we've got Makayla here with us. It's been a long time since the three of us have gotten together through recording an episode, so I'm stoked to have these guys here with us. And we also have an amazing guest with us today. Her name is Aubrey and Makayla. Would you like to introduce her?

Speaker 2: 0:52

Yeah. So we got in contact with Aubrey. She messaged us on Instagram rememberpodcast, if you want to look it up and she mentioned that she had been going through infertility issues and I have a lot of people that I know who deal with this and, especially since October just passed and that's the month of child loss and infertility issues and all that, we feel like this would be very suitable, especially for all those silent sufferers. So we're really excited to have Aubrey share her story and share her experiences about infertility and how she's found grace and some peace with God through the journey. So, aubrey, turn it over to you.

Speaker 3: 1:34

OK, thank you. Ok, so I guess a little bit of the background about me is I was born and raised in the church, grew up in Utah County, moved more north when I was about seven and I was always in the church. I went to church every Sunday and then, as I started to get older, I kind of fell away, but I never considered myself inactive. I would still pray, I still held a testimony, I didn't doubt anything. I was just the type of person that I wanted to, I guess, kind of see what else was out there, against my better judgment, and so I guess. So I just kind of left for a little bit. I would still go to church on Sunday, well, not every Sunday, but my mom would be like, oh, you should be at church, it's Christmas Eve or something. I'm like, ok, I'll go to church. And I still felt the spirit, I still felt the influence of the gospel in my life and I'm always so grateful for that. And so I met my husband when I was 20. Gosh, I don't remember. In 2016, I met my husband I don't want to do math and he was not a member. He was born in Oregon, raised in Oregon, in northern Nevada, so he knew, up the church, very little of the church, but he had an understanding of it. So when we got together, I was still like I told him, I'm like, well, I am LBS, but I don't really honestly, I don't really go to church anymore. That's the only thing I didn't do. And so we had lived together for a little while. We got married in September of 2017.

Speaker 3: 3:43

And then we started to try to start a family and in the few years leading up to that, I started to experience really painful menstrual cycles I guess the way I can put it. And I would go to doctors and they would just tell me, oh, you just have painful periods, honestly. And so I just kind of wrote that off. And so when we started really trying to conceive, we'd been trying for about a year and we had no success, and so I would start going to doctors and I would tell them how I was feeling and they would just kind of ride me off and I was frustrating, but I mean, I didn't lose hope. I was like, oh, we'll be fine, we've only been trying for a year, we'll be fine.

Speaker 3: 4:41

And then there was this moment where, well, there are a few moments. So I have a sister who is a returned missionary and I swear, once you're a missionary, you are always one. And so she was like we need Adam to join the church, like he's the heart of gold, he needs to join the church, like he's just so selfless and sweet and I'm like I know, but he's just he's not really into it right now. So one day I did ask him it was a little bit after we'd been trying to conceive and I did ask him like could I have the missionaries come over? My sister really wants to have the missionaries over here. Could we send them over and just have a little discussion? And he flat out said no. And it was really hard for me to hear because he didn't really say no to me a lot, and so I was like, oh man, that really got me.

Speaker 3: 5:29

But I think it was maybe a couple months after that we were at my parents' watching conference, april conference, and I don't know. I honestly don't remember really the exact talks that were given at this conference. But we were driving home and when we got home I basically borne my testimony and looking back I can see why, and I am the type of person I do not believe in coincidences. I think everything happens for a reason, even though sometimes I hate that. I say that because with situations like I'm dealing with now, it's frustrating to even think about. But I do believe everything happens for a reason.

Speaker 3: 6:13

So we're sitting in the car as we get home from conference and I basically look at him and I'm like you know, we're married, we're not sealed, right. And he was just kind of like well, what do you mean? And I'm like, well, in the LDS church we believe families can be together forever. If a husband and wife are sealed in the temple, then their children are sealed to them through that covenant. And he really didn't understand a lot of what I was saying, obviously, but I just basically I borne my testimony and it was like I need the priesthood in my home, I need to have the priesthood in my life again because I am just I'm really struggling right now and at the time we'd only been trying for well, I guess, a year, but going to see a fertility doctor for a couple of months, and so when I told him this, that it really was meaning something to me, like I need you to really think about this, because the only way we're going to be together forever, like if I die or if you die prematurely, then we have to be sealed in order to be together forever and same with our children.

Speaker 3: 7:25

When we have our children and stuff and it was probably a few months after that, I started to experience more and more health issues, where I was in the ER within less than two months of each other and was finally confirmed that I have a disease called endometriosis, which can cause infertility, painful periods and a whole slew of other issues. And so during this time, we were in the process of moving and as we got, as we'd finally moved into our home, we'd been in our home for about four months, I think, maybe five, and all of a sudden I knock on the door and it was a missionary and he came in and he started giving Adam lessons and Adam was like, so, not against it. He's just kind of like OK, this is ridiculous. Like I don't know, this is a lot really. They're just overwhelming. And he had all the lessons, he took them all. He was very willing to listen to what they had to say and he did end up being baptized in 2019. And a lot of what helped him join the church was he was able to receive closure through the gospel, because his mother passed when he was 12. And he always struggled with that, and so that was part of the reason why he was so hesitant to join the church is because he kind of held that resentment, and so that's just a side story, but yeah, so he joined the church in 2019.

Speaker 3: 9:20

And then we were sealed in the temple, in the Ogden temple, in March of 2020, we were the last couple sealed in the temple right before they closed down the temples in COVID in that temple due to COVID. So that was always kind of cool. And so during this time from 2018 on, we've been trying to concede. We've been seeing different doctors. When we were finally able to go back to the temple after the COVID restrictions were over is when we really started to have some incredible sacred experiences that essentially told us that we would have children and that they were just waiting to be born in the covenant kind of a situation.

Speaker 3: 10:12

And so throughout this process and looking back, I can see that the spirit really kind of forced me to bear my testimony to my husband that night and tell him that I need him to consider joining the church, because looking back now I'm like I realized I needed the priesthood for the days that I'm living in now and because of that, I guess, moment of bearing my testimony to him and telling him to join the church well, asking him to consider joining the church and then him joining and now having the priesthood it's given me so much peace through this process that has been so hard and so isolating. And people have asked me. They're like, how do you? Well, people always ask me how you stay strong. I'm like, oh, I don't. Like I fall apart. Quite often I just fake it. Really well, but it's honestly, it's Christ.

Speaker 3: 11:33

I, because of this trial, I had to put myself in, put myself in his hands and basically say, okay, I can't do this on my own anymore, I can't do this. But just Adam, I'm obviously so grateful for the priesthood blessings he's given me and the beautiful sacred experiences we've received, but I'm like I need more here. I really need help and I have relied so heavily on the atonement and my relationship with Christ. And when President Nelson came out with the talk of or like I think it was in 2020, I don't remember, but basically when he was telling people to figure out how the Lord speaks to you and the whole like hear him kind of thing that really touched me.

Speaker 3: 12:33

I was like, okay, I've got to figure out not really figure out how the Lord speaks to me, because I've always kind of known, but I'm I more so wanted to really cultivate that relationship and have have a way to not only communicate with the Lord but to be able to really sit there and meditate on my prayers afterwards and really listen to any inspirations or promptings from the spirit. And more often than not I, when I do pray or meditate on these things, I feel almost immediately. I feel peace and I know that in and of itself is an answer and that peace has gotten me through many a dark night. And I know that were it not for this trial and well with it were not for this trial, I wouldn't have had a greater need to develop that relationship with Christ and really rely on him to help me through all these trials and procedures and tests and everything that we've gone through. The only way I'm able to do it is because I have the love of the Savior that gives me peace and helps me through all of this.

Speaker 2: 14:18

Thank you for sharing. I don't know that just touches me because, like I mentioned, I do know a lot of people, or at least a few people, who struggle with infertility or had miscarriages and I haven't personally gone through it myself. But I just can't fathom like the emotional, like turmoil that you can go with and the whirlwind of everything and you know, hoping for something, and you feel like I sometimes put myself in those shoes and I have other experiences that I go through. You know other struggles and sometimes you're like, am I doing enough? Like is it me? Is it like is it me? That's the problem, especially when you are like going through infertility.

Speaker 2: 15:02

I know that those are the thoughts based on conversations and stuff that I've had and I agree, like I mean I when I moved out of the home and I was going through a lot of stuff and the one thing that when I wasn't really active or kind of doubting everything, the one thing that brought me back was realizing the priesthood and realizing what I didn't have and how much that blessed me and the priesthood and just what I felt, and so you bringing that up and how that helped you realize you know like I need this in my life and how, even from that, you've learned, like, the importance of family and the priesthood and the family and how, how vital that is in order you know, when you start having a family, how important that is and, like you mentioned, like in the temple, how you had those experiences. You know, like you will have children, but this is important to God and this is important to them that you guys do all that you can so they can be born in the covenant and both.

Speaker 2: 16:09

For this I want to mention that I did that. I kind of look up some stuff in it, like LDS gospel library, whatever, just to see. Like you know, if there's anything that to discuss infertility and I did, there's this talk. I can't remember who it's from, but it's called like finding peace from stories of infertility in the Bible and they mentioned how there's so many women in the Bible and in these scripture stories that went through infertility Elizabeth and you know all those people who did go through infertility or had to wait so long to have babies and kids and I just want to read this excerpt from it. It says they are all. They all remain strong and faithful women, even when their prayers and supplications for children were immediately answered in the way they expected. And that was the point. Their faith was not contingent on the answer they received or whether they had children in this life. They had chosen to trust in our Heavenly Father, and I could do the same.

Speaker 2: 17:15

When these women eventually had children, they raised some of the most incredible and faithful men to have lived on earth Isaac, jacob, joseph, samuel and John the Baptist. As I considered the impact each of these men had on the world, I was struck by the trust Heavenly Father had placed in these women, by the trust he places in anyone. He asked to teach children and mothers and then it cut off. But basically, um, because I screamed a lot of it, sorry, but um, basically, whoever said who was giving this talk? She was going through infertility issues and she was mentioning, um, how these incredible women, how strong they were through these times and how they may have felt like inadequate or like they didn't do what they were supposed to be doing, even though they were living the covenant and all that, if you change your perspective, god really was finding that perfect time, that timeline. He has his own timeline, um, and he trusts you enough to have you go through those trials in order to bear these children, like they bore Isaac, like Samuel and John the Baptist and all of them.

Speaker 2: 18:28

Like that takes a lot, like being at the mother or parents of those children, like I just couldn't even imagine, like knowing that they would bear that and that they had to go all those through those things to be strong, you know, and that God trusted them. So I don't know, I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm just saying that there's a behind everything like infertility. Maybe there's a reason why you don't have children yet or others can't conceive yet is because God has a greater purpose, and Maybe it's just not the right time and there's there's a reason for that. Yeah, well, like we were all born in this day and age for a reason, at the time we were supposed to because of the certain things that God had in store for us, and so just having that faith and trust that God trusts you and he knows Ultimately everything but yeah, I just went on a big Rance, but that's what I'm just gonna kind of think enough.

Speaker 3: 19:26

No, that's great and it's so true and I think, especially in the church, it is so hard to me like, okay, I was. I think I met my husband when I was thinking about it. I was like 22, but even a few months or years before that I was like, oh my gosh, I'm not married and I'm 21. Like no one will. But that's just um, that is I don't want to say like LDS culture. It's almost Certain areas of Utah culture and it was so hard. And so now, like seeing all these women, even in my ward that are so much younger than me and they have their babies and stuff, I'm obviously happy for them. Um, but it's like being I'm almost 31, like I'll be 31 and like my gosh, like three days, and I am just like it is so hard to realize. I think it's just the truth of it like I'm not a mother, I don't have children and like what you brought up, it's like I'm doing all these things. I go to the temple, I serve in my calling. Like gosh, I was a young woman for like five years and I'm like I'm doing all these things, like why isn't this happening for me or for us? And I think that is so hard is, um, I think sometimes within the church we put ourselves or we give ourselves these, like these checklists that don't even exist, like they're not doctrine at all, they're nothing that any apostle or prophet has said. It's literally just what we do to ourselves. It's horrible, but it's like I'm doing all these things, like this should be happening. I see all these women that are doing x, y and z and they're getting pregnant, like that's not fair and that's the hardest thing, or one of the hardest things through this trial is just like Feeling like I'm doing everything I can and, for whatever reason, it's not working. And, um, I love that you brought up God's timing, because I think it is so well, obviously like pertinent and important.

Speaker 3: 21:20

And when um president Nelson said like Let um, let God prevail in your lives, that's something I have been trying so hard to do, um, by accepting his will and trying to have the courage to accept his will, is something that I really am struggling with because I Well, I don't consider myself a controlling person, but I do like things a certain way, and so when I make these plans that I probably shouldn't have made, it all um, and they fall apart, it's like, well, why isn't this working? When I'm doing all these things like, why, like, what is your plan for me? What more am I supposed to be doing? Um, I think that's really. That's something else I've struggled with is just accepting that God has um a perfect plan for us, for our family, and it's all about relying on his timing.

Speaker 3: 22:16

Um, I was talking to my friend the other day and we were just talking about how, um, we were talking about the main shooting because it happened pretty close to where she lives and um, because people were like, well, it's, it was a part of God's plan and I know it's just kind of controversial, but I'm just like we were talking, we're like I don't think it really was part of God's plan like being through and going through infertility for almost six years now, I don't want, I don't really believe this is part of God's plan. I don't think it's his plan. It was his plan for me to have like these horrible monthly cycles that are Often debilitating and put me in the hospital. I don't think it was his plan for my husband to lose his mother when she would, when he was 12. I don't think it's his plan for people to suffer horribly.

Speaker 3: 23:10

I think it is the Result of living in a fallen world and we have our agency and some people unfortunately use their agency to take innocent lives or to Do things that are harmful to their health, that can end their life early, or Simply just it's just our agency and the Lord's not going to mess with our agency, and it's so hard to accept that. But At the same time, I think it's beautiful that he trusts us Enough to make these decisions, to let us practice our agency, and it's like this strange dichotomy of like Well, this is so hard, we can't do this. Like why are we suffering? But also thank you, because this gives us a chance to strengthen our faith and really rely on, on Whatever plan you have for us and your perfect timing, definitely so this podcast has a very strange habit of Every time we have a guest on like we're getting ready to record something always speaks like literally Whatever thought cycles.

Speaker 5: 24:21

I'm going through that entire week and you just hit on like two separate ones. Like you hit on one at first and I was like, oh yeah, that's really cool. And then I was thinking about, you know, the second one the next day and all the second one's not quite as major as the first that I want to bring up because I've got kind of a comment and then I've got a question or two for you, and so the first kind of comment that I had is, yeah, we do live in a fallen world. Out of all the worlds that God created, out of all the potentially has, all the people we have, we are currently living in the most wicked, and God has so much faith in us for being so strong that we were able to come down here and be the ones who are able to lead the way. Ever since President Nelson Started being a leader in the community and I think that's a really good thing to do and I started being like very vocal about the whole gather, scattered Israel, that's been something that's kind of been. One of my driving factors is like okay, that's, that's why I'm here, that's why I'm able to keep going through, no matter what questions I have, I know I'll get through it.

Speaker 5: 25:24

And so we do live in a world where people can, you know, make these mistakes. And I think that God has a plan for us because obviously God knows everything, he's an omnipotent being. We all know that. That's the concept of God. But you know, god has a plan for us laid out and he knows what we'll do, what we want to do. But we still have that element of free choice. And with that, you know, there's a lot of people that struggle. They're like, oh well, if you know God exists, then you know he's not a good God because he lets cancer happen, he lets infertility happen, and you know he lets wars and pestilence and all this stuff happen. But you know what really is just a result of living in a fallen world. But there's always beauty to be found in those things, because those struggles, if you turn to Christ, if you make yourself good with your creator, then you'll find the beauty in all those things. But going forth, because you will make those mistakes and because we have a free choice.

Speaker 5: 26:25

Obviously, we have the atonement and the atonement is key, central to the entire cornerstone of Christianity. Whether you know most faiths don't use that word I think it's mentioned three times in the bible and in the book of Mormon it's mentioned 256 times and it just kind of it's super key to you know our faith and you know the restoration and you know it just is a basis of Christianity as a whole. And so my question to you is during that whole experience, everything that you've been going on, what I've been really struggling with this week is that checklist, that whole. I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. This is the next thing I have.

Speaker 5: 27:07

I uh, I don't know I'm a member of the church but I don't really like want to get married right now. So that's like I don't know. Again, that might just be like a Utah thing, but it's. You know, I kind of like an outlier there, but there's like some points where I was like man, I really need somebody to keep me in line, but that's more of a need, not so much I want, but um, I would say like I'm going through these things, I'm sticking with like my you know prayers and my reading scriptures and I'm still like, okay, I'm struggling, why, why do I keep on struggling?

Speaker 5: 27:38

But Christ suffered so much more than Every single one of us has individually, because he has suffered Everything that we have suffered individually. And through that, I think that there's some people, especially those with the stronger face, especially those that are able to, you know, keep their faith even if you know they're not, um, like going to church, like I've been in those times. I'm like you know what that's not I. I could go on and on about my whole spiritual progression and all that stuff, um, but sometimes it is better to learn the hardest way, the blessings of the atonement. And so, with that, what have you and your husband learned, both individually and as a couple, going through this trial about the atonement?

Speaker 3: 28:24

That's a great question.

Speaker 3: 28:25

Um, I think the biggest thing is that the atonement brings Is the only thing that can give you peace in your trials and the only thing that can help you through your trials.

Speaker 3: 28:41

Just knowing that Christ suffered first, everything I've felt, he's felt it first and, moreover and I think knowing that is sometimes unfathomable, but I mean my gosh it just gives you so much peace to think like okay, or to know, like I have a loving savior who he died for and suffered for every single person, billions of people, all their sins, um, temptations, trials, heartache, everything they would feel.

Speaker 3: 29:21

Um, he felt all that and, when you like, individualize it and think he felt this for me, like he went through All these pains for me. He felt the sting of infertility for me, so he would know how to help me through this, and I think that just gives me so much peace because I mean it's, it's what's happened, it's what's true, it's what I know with Each step of our infertility journey. However, it's going to end up that will be okay because we have Christ. We have someone who will be there for us no matter what, who will Help us if we are struggling, who will just the purpose of the atonement. He can sucker us. He will literally run to us in any Affliction um that we experience.

Speaker 2: 30:36

I would say so in um Sunday school today we talked about well, we read Hebrews like chapters one through four, and it talks about how, you know, jesus Christ is Better than the angels or whatever. Like how the angels are beautiful, like they're amazing beings and stuff that. How God is greater, but he fell below them so he would meet our needs, and how he went all the way down, even though he's being this great being. Um, he fell below the angels and Went to our level and this fallen world. Yet a perfect being, a perfect Like God. He came down, fell and experienced everything.

Speaker 2: 31:31

Um, it was funny. There was a woman that mentioned like she's, like I was immature at the time and just like so frustrated, but I was overwhelmed. I had four kids, expecting a fifth child, but we found out that she had Down syndrome and I was just so mad and wondering why, like God would do this to me. He doesn't actually understand what it's like to have kids. He never had kids like so how is he supposed to know what it feels like, what I'm going through, if he never had kids? And I laughed. I was like, oh my gosh, that's so funny.

Speaker 2: 32:00

Like you know, he didn't like and to think about being a woman, like he didn't go through menstrual cycles he didn't like and those it can be painful and he didn't actually go. He felt the pains and everything that came along with it. He felt the emotional, spiritual and the physical pains but he didn't, you know, like it's just like a mind thing, but he really did experience all the thoughts, all the emotions that could come along with those suffering, with those trials that we all go through. And I think that's so beautiful because we hit on the point of empathy and how he is so empathetic, like he is able to be empathetic with us because he fell below them and went on our level and and because he feels our emotions. He knows he can't, just, you know he's not sympathetic, he doesn't go oh I'm sorry like here's the body popper like here, like I'll help you, like whatever.

Speaker 2: 33:00

Like he, like he knows everything. Like what you said, he didn't just pick up a bucket um of, like you know people who deal with it. The he didn't go through a bucket of mental illness. He went and I like to imagine it, you know, sat in front of you and mourned with you. Sat beside he, cried and mourned everything with you and I think that visual is just so perfect and so beautiful I'm just gonna put that up being Greater than any, a perfect being. So like he's hugging you and crying with you.

Speaker 2: 34:02

And I also want to touch on you know, I'm talking a lot. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, darling, you haven't been able to speak, but I just want to hit on this one point. Have you saying that you've gone to church and that you felt, you know, kind of alone? Like how do we feel, like we can belong in a church when you see everyone getting married or seeing everyone have kids and becoming grandkids or going on missions, and it just seems so beautiful, like their lives are perfect? You know, like that's the natural man. Like you know, we all have, you know, you know we all feel those feelings and I've gone through some of those things too, like man, why did they seem like their life is going so smoothly, when mine feels like it's a train wreck? And but, guys, I was going through everything.

Speaker 2: 34:46

Before we talked for this meeting today, there was a woman that talked about feeling belonged in the church and she brought up the point, which is so beautiful. Like everyone there goes through something. It may not be the exact thing that you go through, but they go through, you know, the hidden, the hidden things, whether it's addiction, whether it's like family problems, family problems, whether it's infertility, whether it's sickness, illness or even same sex attraction, but they don't want to, you know, put that out there or all those hidden things, so they don't look like imperfect. And I feel like that's one of the things that I first struggled with moving up here, because I'm from Texas and everyone up here is so, like you know, lds Mormon, and like you know, it was just such a cool talk and I was like everyone's the same up here. Everyone portrays themselves as the same and perfect and I feel so inadequate to be here.

Speaker 2: 35:45

But what can we do ourselves to realize and open our eyes and see them as God sees them and realized, you know, like I may feel kind of out of place because, like Treson said, I'm not married, like it's like that experience, like I'm not married but I don't really want to be married, but I feel like I have to. You know, or you know dressing a certain way, or even like what you said in Fertility and you don't, you don't have kids and you're getting older and you're like I feel so left out, you know. But our struggles, god gives us certain struggles for certain people and certain experiences, like the time line and everything. Like he has a reason for everything and you may hide it, you may. You know, like how you mentioned, how are you saying so strong? You're like I'm not, like I'm clearly, like I felt that I like I feel like I'm crumbling but like I have to put a smile on my face, look presentable, but do my hair walk in a church?

Speaker 2: 36:42

But everyone's doing that, I promise you, everyone's doing it. It's just in their own thing that they're gone through. And I think the big reason why we go to church is because we're all imperfect, we all have our stuff. God knows, only God knows. And the reason why we're all there is to comfort each other and look past that vision tunnel of just seeing everyone else is perfect and seeing everyone else is not going through anything, when literally everyone else is going through stuff. That's why we're there for the sacrament, for the atonement, like that's the whole reason for it, and finding your places, finding your place with God, and embracing others around you or trying to do the same.

Speaker 3: 37:24

So yeah, it's so good, no, you're so right. And like what you touched on, with like empathy, I didn't share like our infertility story for a while, I guess kind of fear, but it was more like once I really vocalized it I felt like, oh my crap, this is real, like we really are going through infertility. And then it was. I listened to this talk that Elder Bednar gave and he tells a story about this young couple that had just gotten married and just a few months after they were married, the husband was diagnosed with this horrible cancer. And Elder Bednar met this couple. Not sure how he knew them, but he went to the hospital where the man was and his wife was there with him and I think he offered him a blessing, or he was going to offer them a blessing, and he felt prompted to ask them do you have the faith to be healed? And they're like, yes, of course, like that's what we want. So, okay, do you have the faith to not be healed? And when I read that, something really struck me and I was like, oh my gosh, do I have the faith to really accept God's will for me? If this isn't the case, like if this doesn't happen for me, am I going to be okay. Like, do I have the faith to be? Like? Okay, this is God's plan, I'm okay.

Speaker 3: 39:05

And when I read that talk something really well, obviously the spirit spoke to me and told me I need to share our story. And I remember I borne my testimony in church and basically I told that story and explained to people that, like what we've been going through, and it worked, also because people stopped asking us when we were going to have kids. That was another thing. I'm like can we please stop asking couples Like this is so not your business? But I had so many women reach out to me in our ward that were like, thank you so much for sharing your story, because we've been struggling too, or we just had a miscarriage, or I have, like a sister or friend is going through this and I have no idea how to help them. And so I was just, I was so hesitant to share our journey with people and now I'm so open about practically everything, like we're doing IVF right now and I'm just I will tell. Like whoever asks me they're like oh, like, how is your like, how many embryos did you get? Or like I will tell you anything, because I feel like that is.

Speaker 3: 40:22

I guess part of the reason I have gone through this trial is because I am able to help people who have maybe someone in their life who's gone through infertility, or if they themselves are going through it. I have the ability to empathize with them, so much so that I have had so many women reach out to me and ask me questions or just vent to me and I get it. And I've met so many friends through this horrible journey or trial not journey, trial and there's a little, I guess, saying that's within the infertility community and it's like the worst club but the best members, and it's so true. I've met some of these strongest men and women that go through this trial and I think being able to empathize with them is just beautiful because, like, yeah, we had someone in church today who mentioned something because we were talking about like the like through Hebrews as well, and we were talking about like the many titles that Christ has and something about empathy.

Speaker 3: 41:33

I don't remember exactly, but this lady wrote her hand and she was like so I don't really have a lot of trials, knock on wood. And I just kind of rolled my eyes, which probably wasn't good, but I'm just like. Of course not, but she mentioned something she's like. So I really don't know how to like help people going through these things and it just kind of like ping my heart where I'm like I've helped. I'm pretty sure I've helped so many people with either my testimony or just being a listening ear. And, as much as I hate this trial because it is so gosh darn hard, I love the people I've met through it and I love being able to sit with them and just listen to them and help them in any way that I can, and I think that is just yeah. It's just like the empathy. To be able to have that direct empathy is amazing and sometimes just what people need.

Speaker 1: 42:31

Absolutely. Thank you so much for everything that you, that you've shared and that everyone has shared up to this point. I'll just say to the viewers I think it's funny. We were talking. I was cracking a joke about how my mom says I talk about myself too much on here. I haven't talked at all. Thank you very much, mom, but I'm about to talk for a minute, so buckle your seatbelt, because I have bullet points that I've been waiting to talk about.

Speaker 3: 43:06

Smart.

Speaker 1: 43:08

I must have just known that everybody else had things to share, and because I never take bullet points during these episodes. But anyway, I wanted to something that you talked about at the very beginning. You mentioned very briefly about your husband's testimony or how he came to accept the gospel. You mentioned that his mother passed away when he was 12. I relate a lot to that because I consider myself a convert to the church, not because I left the church, but because I used to just kind of go with the motions and then when my father like my father passed away when I was 14, so pretty close to the same age as your husband was when his mom passed Like that was the hardest thing I've ever gone through up to that point and I would say I've gone through harder things since then, but if I was to experience that now like it would be devastating. But that has had such a profound impact on my testimony, on who I am and the way that I see the world, and so I just wanted to make that quick connection there and it's awesome to see that your husband has. He's made that connection with his mom again. I've mentioned this on a previous episode when we were talking with Geneva, I think it was, but her father had passed away a few years ago, a couple of years ago, and I told her that, like, her mom is still married to her husband and it's the same, and you can tell this to your husband, it's the same with his mom to his dad. They're still married and they will, especially if they ever get sealed. I don't know what your family circumstances are. Obviously your husband wasn't a member, so I assume his parents aren't. But if they ever get sealed they will still be married in the next life and I think that's something. That's that my mom is still learning and it's given her so much comfort. I just, I just felt to mention that. But okay, a few, a few more things. I'm just going to run through these bullet points.

Speaker 1: 45:44

You said somebody asked you how do you stay together? And you're like I don't. I felt that on a spiritual level, because it's like the world is just getting so chaotic. It's like how can I stay together? Like how can I, you know, hold myself together in this chaos of a universe? But but Jesus is how we stay together. He's the I don't know.

Speaker 1: 46:17

We've talked about it a couple of times that what is that Japanese practice can saggy or something like that. I totally put you that. But when you know what I'm talking about, though, when they take a bowl that's been broken and they glue it back together with traces of gold or silver or platinum, some precious metals, and the bowls or whatever the pottery, it just looks so exquisite, just beautiful. It adds to the quality of the piece, and I think that's exactly why we're here. We're here so that we can be broken, but then our Heavenly Father, through His Son, jesus Christ, can make us exquisite, can make us perfect. It's form of perfection that we would never even expect, because perfection comes from the beauty of the scars. I don't know, that's something that I just came up with, so that's on, pretty cool. But the next point. Let's see Another thing that I wanted to really touch on, because I know a few people that have gone through similar things as what you're going through fertility issues and I think I loved that you turned your husband as a source of comfort and a source of healing, because you mentioned to him the desire to have the priest in your home, and so you turn to your husband and you turn to your heavenly father, and I think that is probably one of the most pivotal moments I don't know, I'm just speaking as an outsider, of course but one of the most pivotal moments to your testimony and towards your healing.

Speaker 1: 48:26

Because, like the people that I know, they didn't turn to their husband.

Speaker 1: 48:31

They didn't and you know their members, and their husband was a member and held the priest it or still holds the priest it, but she turned away from her husband and it's caused so many more problems in her life because of that, and I think, oftentimes our stubbornness.

Speaker 1: 48:54

You know that goes back to our agency, what we've talked about already. God doesn't give I wouldn't say God gives us problems. We give ourselves problems, and that's part of the fallen world is we have the choice to make mistakes and not know that it was a mistake, and I think that comes from our pride, and I, for one, do that all the time. Oh, my goodness, how many times do you like, like, will I be at work? And somebody says oh no, it's easier to do whatever the task that we're doing, it's easier to do it this way, and I'm like no, like, my way is better, and then I'm doing it my way, but then, like, 20, 30 minutes into it, I'm like well, you know that other way, like he's already done that was obviously quicker and easier, like I should have done it that way, darn it.

Speaker 1: 49:51

And here I am, you know, embarrassed. You know it's it's no fault but mine. God didn't do that, it was my own agency. And so I think there's so much, so much value in understanding that, in the way that God works, I don't think God chooses to give us these, these problems, but it's because of our agency, because he respects agency so much, that he allows these problems to happen. And we can either turn to ourselves and try to figure it out ourselves, like I do when I do those stupid tasks at work that take me forever, or we can turn outward and look to others, and especially our heavenly father, and then he or they can then help us and show us a better way. And so let's see, you did talk about a little bit of Russell M Nelson, president Nelson's talk, you know when he talked about how you hear him and learning how the Savior and our heavenly father, how they speak to us.

Speaker 1: 51:18

Oh, my goodness, that's constantly changing, at least for me. I don't know how it is for everyone else, but I used to just like, I used to just feel like I was being led constantly where God wanted me to go, he wouldn't talk to me, he wouldn't make me feel things. But I just felt like if I just, you know, put my head down, my nose to the grandson, I just worked, then God would just make things happen. And that's changed recently for me and I don't know if that's the same for other people, but for me, like that's how it was on, the mission was just put your nose to the grandson, let it work. But now it's like I'm here in college and I'm learning what it means to actually talk to our heavenly father, what it means to hear him, to understand his voice. He actually like I've had more conversations with God, like actual, like conversations, it felt like than I've ever had in my life, just in these like last, you know, six months, and it's been revolutionary for my life, like to to understand how our heavenly father talks to us but then how he continuously changes how he talks to it. I don't know about changes, but he grows, he builds on it and I know in my life like I'm such a stubborn individual. I needed to just put my nose to the grindstone and just work on my mission and then like he would just direct me like I wouldn't. I don't even know what to relate that to, maybe like how you guide the flowing of water. It's just gonna constantly be moving. And then he's just like working, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, like trying to keep me on the path that he wants me on. But now it's like, now I actually stop and I like listen and I hear his voice and that's been so profound to me.

Speaker 1: 53:26

Sorry, I'm just kind of rushing through these because we're showing a little long, but on that same note of receiving revelation, you talked about how, or you mentioned very quickly, very briefly, that that peace is an answer and something. I don't remember where I heard it from, but somebody said to me something on, and I don't know, paraphrasing something along the lines of like, maybe the peace wasn't an answer, but because God gives us rest, he gave you peace while you're here to wait, if that makes sense. I don't know that's a super paraphrased, I don't know if I phrased that right, but sometimes that peace that we're given isn't an answer to do something, but that's God comforting us while he, while our Heavenly Father, is creating something better. And I know I've seen that so much in my life. When I got home from my mission. I was like, okay, god wants me to get married. I'm that guy, like 20 years old, and I'm like that's it. I'm looking for a wife. I laugh about it. Now, you know, it's only been two years later but and I have no prospects. So it is what it is. But if you, if you, can laugh about it, then it's fine. So I'm laughing about it, but I think it's interesting because, though, I felt like that's what God wanted me to do, that was the next thing. Like yeah, it on paper, that is the next thing, that's the next covenant for me to fulfill, like, of course it makes sense. But little did I know God had so much more in store for me.

Speaker 1: 55:25

And when I sit and I meet a girl and I'm like I get all excited about it and I pray and I'm like God, like is this, is this good? And he gives me a feeling of peace and I'm like dope, like let's, let's get the ball rolling, let's get married. Okay, first off, let me pump the brakes. I've never told a girl hey, god told me you're going to be my wife. I've never done that. I've never been that guy. Okay, oh, not one of those provo boys. Sorry, I'm the comic relief here. I think you still got time. You still got time We'll get to some of the spiritual stuff here in a second but really heartfelt stuff, but this is stuff we can laugh about. But what was I saying? Oh yeah, I get that feeling of peace and I'm like let's do it. And then she's always the one to break it off and I'm like, oh well, what the heck God Like. Now suddenly I'm like God, like you lied to me, but really he never told me yes and he never told me no. He just gave me a feeling of peace and he was like like everything's going to work out and I think that it's. I mean, I hate that it's taken this long for me to understand that, but I think that understanding has been so pivotal into who I am today.

Speaker 1: 56:51

I went and worked in Alaska for the summer and it was removing myself from my life for just a period of time and like my oh, my goodness, god and I have worked out so many things. Like that was like a spiritual retreat. Going to Alaska to work. I wouldn't to anybody listening to this. You don't have to pick everything up and move in order to get close to God. You can do it where you're at. He will meet you where you're at.

Speaker 1: 57:26

But for some reason it worked for me and so I went to Alaska and he showed me my value. He showed me who I was, he showed me my skills, he showed me my, he gave me direction and I realized and I'm still realizing that I need to learn more about myself to prepare for marriage than getting married and like we can laugh about that because it's like oh yeah, it makes sense. But sometimes you need to get hit in the face with a two by four in order to understand things at least in my case. But I learned that the trials that I'm going through they seem so trivial looking back on them, but they are shaping me into someone that my wife will be blessed for and I'm not saying that to boast of myself. But I'm so better off now because I'm experiencing these things before I'm married than if I were to have gotten married and then had to develop those skills and that switch in my mind.

Speaker 1: 58:55

I am so grateful to still be single because I like, looking back, I was not prepared to meet a girl and to settle down to get married and like obviously I'm kind of getting pretty far off the topic of what we've been talking about, but how amazing is it that your learning or your relationship between you and your husband is, I would assume, like it's so much stronger now than it was when you first got married and you first started trying right?

Speaker 1: 59:34

So how amazing is that, when you do have a child come into the world, that you have this relationship with your husband, this example that you can give to your children whenever you have them, whether it's in this life or the next, that connection that you have together will bless your family for all time and eternity, and not only that, but your relationship with your heavenly father, and I think that makes, like that understanding, makes any trial worth it, so worth it. And I, you know I'm just going to close really quick because I think we're over an hour, but it's maybe it's not part of God's plan for some things to happen. I think his plan is very fluid. I don't think it's. You know, this has to happen for this to happen, for this to happen. But because of our agency, I think God's plan is constantly changing and adapting to our needs, because he's a heavenly father, he loves us and he loves to meet us where we're at and meet our needs, but how grateful I am for the trials that I experienced, because they have made me who I am today. And I know that for a fact and I've said this a few times this podcast wouldn't exist if it wasn't for some of the trials that I've been through.

Speaker 1: 1:01:12

And Mikaela, I know she can say the same thing, and Tresden as well but because of the trials we go through, our efforts are just multiplied and we are given the opportunity and the responsibility to take these trials and to turn them into something that amplifies our, our work, our help, our I don't know efforts. Because of the trials we go through, the amount of people, the amount of hearts that we can touch is just, I don't know. It's amazing to me when you're really sitting, think about it. The heart, the amount of hearts I can touch now is so much greater than two years ago, because I have been through so much and I can relate to so many more people because of the things I've been through, and it just makes me feel like the harder God or the harder life is for us, the greater things God has in store for us, because we become tools that he can use in the gathering of Israel, and so thank you so much, aubrey, for coming on. Do you have any final thoughts before we close?

Speaker 3: 1:02:48

Oh my gosh, you said so much.

Speaker 5: 1:02:50

I know I apologize.

Speaker 3: 1:02:51

No, it was great. I would just say like to just kind of touch on what you said like we are giving trials for many different reasons. I believe some of us choose our trials. Definitely don't think we choose all our trials, but I know that we are giving them to help us. Like you said, they help us, they shape us, they make us who God wants us to be.

Speaker 3: 1:03:30

If it weren't for this trial, my husband wouldn't have needed to join the church, I wouldn't have felt like I needed the priesthood in my home, we wouldn't have been sealed, Like so many things would not have happened were it not for this trial. And so I would be completely remiss to say that I'm not grateful, in a sense, for this trial because of how much it has shaped me, how much I have been able to grow closer to the Savior, how much I've been able to strengthen my faith in my testimony and him and his plan for me. And I think that a big thing we need to remember is to not I don't want to say not plan, but just don't assume everything is going to happen the way it happens for your neighbors or your people in your ward or your friends or people you follow online because your everyone's journey is so different and we just it's so much easier said than done, but we just have to have faith and trust in God's plan because it is so much better for us and his timing is so perfect. For whatever reason, it's not happening for us yet, but I know that when it will, I will look back on these days and be grateful that it can happen in this time and I'm just, I guess, kind of want to just close with my testimony that I'm just so grateful for the Atonement, for the peace, for prayer, for the priest.

Speaker 3: 1:04:54

I'm so grateful for the priesthood, like you said, with the relationship I have with my husband is so strengthened. We often say to each other we wouldn't be able to do this without one another like his strength and optimism helps me so much. I don't know how I help him, but there are ways. I guess and I know that because of our, because of this trial that has strengthened our marriage that, like you said, we will be a stronger family after this in the next life and forever more, and I'm grateful for that and for the relationship I have with my savior, Amen, Awesome.

Speaker 1: 1:05:40

Thank you so much, aubrey. And I did have some scriptures I was going to share, but for the sake of time I'm only going to just share the one of them, because I think it's absolutely freaking amazing and I actually taught Sunday school today. So everything Michaela was talking about, like I was sitting there like oh my gosh, oh my gosh. Like because, yes, I loved it and she's did such an amazing job of talking about it, worded very beautifully. But in Hebrews, chapter five, verse eight, it says, though he were a son, yet learned he obedience by the things, by the things which he suffered. And so I.

Speaker 1: 1:06:25

To me that is comforting because and this completely changed the way that I look at the Atonement Jesus Christ was learning as he was going, just like we are. He didn't, he probably didn't have a full understanding that like of what the sacrifice that he was about to to, you know, give to us, probably didn't really understand what that meant or what was expected of him, until he got into the garden and he took the three apostles and he said like hey, I am feeling very sorrowful, even unto death. Tear you here and pray for me, please pray for me, you know. And then he went into the garden and he fell not melt down, he fell onto the olive tree and he suffered, and he begged. He pleaded with his heavenly father, saying my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Take this cup from me. And then, because he was learning to be obedient, he said, nevertheless, not my will, but thine be done. And so I think, if we can learn that type of obedience, if we can learn to submit our will to the heavenly father, just as what has been talked about today, god will be able to work wonders with our lives and, no matter the circumstances of our lives, we will fill joy, just like the prophet, president Russell M Nelson. I said we will fill joy.

Speaker 1: 1:08:19

Thank you, aubrey, for coming on, thank you, mikaela and Tresden for giving me the opportunity to speak, and thank you so much to our amazing listeners for making it this long. This is going to be a little bit longer of an episode, but, oh, it's been so good to have everybody back together and so, yeah, our listeners make sure to follow us on Instagram. Mikaela gave a shout out earlier, but I'll repeat it. It's at rememberpodcast. That's where we post updates. We post. Well, if we publish an episode, we post about that. Also, we have a T-shirt. Well, we've got a bunch of T-shirts and stuff on our Etsy store. That's I think there's a link to that on our Instagram page as well. So go check out the Instagram, check out the Etsy store. We would love to get your support on our Etsy store, as well as some feedback and stuff. So thank you so much for listening and remember him.