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Thru The Grapewine
Welcome to the Thru the Grapewine podcast with your host Ute Mitchell, a certified wine professional, podcaster, and content creator. Join us as we uncork the stories of remarkable women shaping the wine industry. From winemakers to sommeliers, vineyard managers to marketers, to thought leaders and writers, we dive deep into their experiences, challenges, and triumphs.
With a delightful blend of wit and insight, each episode offers a refreshing perspective on wine culture and the women who define it. Whether you're a seasoned oenophile or just starting to explore the world of wine, our conversations will entertain, educate, and inspire.
Join us on this spirited journey as we raise a glass to women in wine, one episode at a time. Prost!
Keywords: wine, women in wine, wine industry, female winemakers, sommeliers, vineyard management, wine marketing, wine culture, podcast, storytelling, empowerment, humor, education, inspiration.
Thru The Grapewine
Ever Felt Lost in a Wine Shop? Diana Turk Shares the Secrets to Wine Confidence
Join us as we dive into the world of wine with Diana Turk, certified wine professional and writer, at K&L Wine Merchants. Together, we uncover the essence of wine appreciation, demystifying the intimidating world of wine for both beginners and enthusiasts alike. From the power of scent to making wine approachable, Diana's insights will leave you feeling empowered to explore the bounty of the vine without fear or pretense.
But our conversation doesn't stop there. As we sip on the future of the wine industry, we ponder the emerging taste preferences of Gen Z and the influence of social media-driven trends. Join us as we dream of ultimate jobs in the wine world and map out enchanting wine regions like Napa Valley and Oregon's Willamette Valley, each holding the promise of future memories and discoveries. Cheers to inclusivity, curiosity, and the joy of experiencing wine in all its splendor!
Diana Turk on Instagram
Email: info@thruthegrapewine.com
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Hello, friends of the Through the Grapevine podcast this is Ute, and it is episode number 43 of the podcast that the ice here has melted, the snow is gone and, true to Portland fashion, we went right back up into 50 degree weather, and actually it's raining so hard now that we have flood warnings, which is great.
Speaker 1:I'm actually recording this episode on a Saturday, and later my husband and I are going to hit up a couple of wineries, and one of them happens to be at a place that I interviewed for the podcast before, so I'm going to be posting about that on Instagram later. I also have a quick request for you out there If you have a person that you think should be interviewed for the podcast, please shoot me a message to info at throughthegrapevinecom. I am looking for women from literally all over the world, as long as you speak English, because it's an English podcast, I want to talk to you, so message me please, and with that I am going to jump right into it. We're going into a great interview with a wonderful and lovely guest, and her name is Diana, so hello and welcome, diana, hello.
Speaker 2:Ute, thank you for having me. I'm so glad that you agreed to do this. Yes, I'm excited to do it, and now I'm curious which winery. You started this off on a cliffhanger.
Speaker 1:I see, there you go. You'll just have to check Instagram later.
Speaker 2:Look at that, all right. Suspenses building tune in later folks. Exactly.
Speaker 1:But this is about you today. So I just want to get started the way I always do Just tell me a little bit about yourself. Who are you, when are you from? You know? Kind of give us a quick rundown.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my name is Diana Turk. I'm born and raised in Los Angeles, california, and that's where I'm recording from here today. Sunny and I'm a wine writer. I'm working on a book right now and wine educator, but my main job, my day job, is I'm on the retail sales floor at a store called K&L Wine Merchants in California.
Speaker 1:All right, well, so this whole book thing has got me curious, so we're going to be talking about that in a little bit too. I would like to know, though, because I, you know, I always do a little bit of research on people. I check out their LinkedIn profiles and everything. So I saw a very interesting set of certifications that you have. I see WSAT 2. I see Spanish Wine Educator, I see Sake Advisor, and I see Certified Beer Server. And what can I say? I'm dying to know what brought on these specific certifications. Like you know, what was a driving factor here?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, they're all areas of alcohol that I'm interested in, that I personally enjoy drinking, but where it came from was? I started my wine journey at Whole Foods and these were mostly jobs that no one else there wanted to do. The Sake Department involved putting like the little bottles on the sushi counter or whatever. And you know people couldn't understand the congee and would get really confused. So when one of the vendors came up and said, hey, do you have anyone here who would be willing to learn a little bit more about it, I was sort of the one that got pushed into it and I feel really grateful for that. And the same thing with the beer server certification. It was like whoever cleaned the taps at the bar needed to know what that entailed. So you had to at least have the entry level Cicero certification. So there's been a lot of the cleaning.
Speaker 2:I jumped in to Nice and the Spanish certification is how I got into wine in the first place. One of my good friends from high school was working for Grimona at the time a big time Kava producer, although now they've moved into the Corpana movement and she came to LA. She needed a place to crash while she took this course and she pitched it to me as, hey, if you want to come, it's going to be a tasting. And there's, you know, a guy that's going to talk about the wines, but no big deal. And I was like, sure, you know, I like Rioja. I guess you know I had no idea anything about Spanish wine. And I tagged along and I get there and it was not just a tasting, it was this whole certification class and everyone there was a Somalia or a private chef or worked in a restaurant or was like already a wine professional in some capacity. And the tasting wasn't like a casual pour, it was like a blind tasting and you had to name the region.
Speaker 2:So I had to learn real quick and I mean I think we like I don't know if I should admit this on the podcast, I think we said I was her assistant at the winery or something like, so that I could have some sort of credential to be allowed to take this course. I just, I mean, I learned more about like Lycorrea and the DO system in 48 hours. Then I think I've learned in my whole wine career since. But I tried and I worked really hard and, like, later I got this, this package, in the mail that was like hey, felicitaciones, you are now part of our certified Spanish wine educator program, and it's actually worked out great for me because Spanish wine is really close to my heart.
Speaker 2:I've been to Spain, to the different wine regions now, and I am grateful that I sort of fell backwards into it, because had I known, I would have jumped instead. I love Spanish wine, I love Spanish wine makers and I'm really grateful that that's how it happened. Sure, and then the W SET was. That was the one that Whole Foods was going to pay for. There you go. You know I don't put a huge amount of weight into certifications because, working in a retail environment, I just see so many people who are savvy and incredibly knowledgeable but, might not have the time or the money.
Speaker 2:you know, hospitality is not a super lucrative industry and so a lot of people learn by doing and learn by visiting wineries, learn by. You know tasting and I feel like that is so much more important than sitting for a test. So I sort of just take the certifications as they come to me. I don't necessarily research which one will get me further ahead. Yeah, it's just the on the floor and you know this on the fly. Learning and this hand on learning with tasting is so valuable that I just sort of push forward with the practical rather than think about it.
Speaker 1:So basically what you're saying is that also that there's no like real plan for future certifications. It's more of a whatever hits me at any given time, that that catches my attention enough. That's where I'm going.
Speaker 2:I think so. I am working on level three WST, so I guess undercutting my argument here a little bit, but that was mainly because I feel like I know enough to pass it already, so I might as well like have it. But yeah, I think that there's a lot of people who have highfalutin I can't believe I just saidfalutin Certifications that are not as well versed in wine as I would like them to be, and I know a lot of people who have just been in restaurants their whole career who are geniuses at it, Right. So I mean, I'm a studier by nature, I love to learn, so I want those certifications, but it's not To me. It doesn't equal more knowledge necessarily in the way that helps you relate to customers and since I'm on a retail floor, that's my most important thing is connecting to people.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, for sure. So are you familiar with Wine with Jimmy? Are you using that by any chance?
Speaker 1:I'm not Okay so if I can make one recommendation for sitting for level three is to go to winewithjimmycom. He is. He has hands down the most information for people who are studying for level three, with short answer questions, multiple choice. He's got the videos that go with each chapter and he's freaking brilliant and I can only highly recommend getting an account and I think he has the option to do like a six months subscription or a full year.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And yeah, he's, he's great he's, he's British, he's in London, he's got a couple of schools and he's got a wine bar or two wine bars or whatever, and so he's, he's very adorable when he starts talking, because it's like I was hello everybody.
Speaker 2:I'm very, very adorable, yeah, and I should point out, in case there's wine professionals listening to this that are now offended. I do actually think certifications are very difficult to attain. I think they were dedication, a lot of discipline. It's so incredible when people put that energy into it and most of the people who have them are so smart but right. So nothing against you If you are a full court of master Psalm pinned up. I think that's an incredible accomplishment. But there are other ways to learn and it just depends you know where your time can be spent the most efficiently, I think.
Speaker 1:And I really don't think that wine industry folks are that easily offended, just from my past experience with interviews, because I have had the people who are. You know, all about going going the route of this is my, my end goal. I want to be, you know, w said for diploma I want to go into the direction of master sommelier, and there were those who are like you know, I just have learned a lot about wine throughout my career. It's just it's part of my career that I continue to learn, and so certifications are really not the route that I want to go, and and I think we all know that there is room for everyone in some capacity and so I really don't feel like you know, people are sitting out there listening to this going well how rude, right, and you know we're just all trying to get drunk.
Speaker 2:At the end of the day, we say at the store a lot when we get a difficult customer who's, you know, very upset about a minor detail that it's like we're not saving lives. We're just here to make people's lives better by proving their meal or improving their party, and so any way that you can match what a person is asking for with what ends up in their glass is. And if you know that because you have studied all of the great varieties that are allowed to be in Chattanoof to Pop amazing If you know that because you had a Chattanoof to Pop the night before that you liked and that's the one you can hand sell then that's a way to go too, right, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Well, I love that comment and, yes, it's definitely very true. I think, especially when you are in a customer facing position, you still need a lot of people skills just to work through stuff with people, and sometimes that is about you know, having a lot of knowledge, and sometimes it's just about meeting them where they are and going. You know what I can help you. You know, whatever it is, we'll work through it.
Speaker 2:Right, right, and that's the focus of my book. We can loop back to this later and also I have an Instagram account called Confident Drinker and the idea is to get people to just ask that second question or that third question and how they can take situations that are sometimes intimidating or sometimes awkward. You know what you do when the sommelier hands you the cork at a restaurant or you're at dinner with your boss or your mother-in-law and you're nervous. That should be a happy experience, you're opening a bottle of wine, but they can be really nerve wracking and you know, I just want people to be confident in their choices and be able to ask for what they want and get what they want, and it doesn't have to be an obscure wine, it doesn't have to be a culty wine, it can be an easy drinker, but you know they need to be able to articulate that and then leave happy, and so that's what I'm hoping people can get through my Instagram and, eventually, the book.
Speaker 1:Right, and I think I don't know if you've read, listened to my episode with Taked Bramlett.
Speaker 2:Yes, I literally wrote it down to bring her up, because I was so motivated by that episode.
Speaker 1:Right and I think I really, I really enjoy, you know, thinking about what she said, about being completely honest, about what she tastes.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:You know, rather than to have like this big language about what this wine tastes. Like you know, you can say oh wow, I'm getting a hint of skittles, cherry flavor, or you know whatever, because in that moment that is your experience. And who are we to take away an experience from somebody just because we're stuck in our way of thinking about wine?
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, I mean, that episode struck me. I think the phrase that was used was to taste with realness.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I love that because I mean if we're honest with, like the you know the Nez de Smaillet kit. Like you can get graphite or gooseberry, like those are real flavors, but the average person doesn't smell like pencil lead all the time. So, like, why lose that? Yeah, A go to for me is to describe cork wine as smelling like Pirates of the Caribbean, the ride at Disneyland. I love that Because you can think about like wet dog or musty cardboard or mold. But like everyone's been on that ride and everyone knows what that water smells like and it's instantly recognizable.
Speaker 2:When you get a bottle that smells like that. Yeah, yeah, All of a sudden you've taken something so obscure for the average wine drinker like I don't know, is it corked? Is it not corked? What am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to detect in this? And you're like, oh yeah, I know exactly what that smells like you know, I've known that since I was a kid. No, that was a kid, and so I love what Ticket was saying about that because I really resonate with it.
Speaker 1:Right, yes, that is so funny. As soon as you brought up that ride, it was just instant like oh my gosh, yeah, I can smell that.
Speaker 2:Smell it yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, that is hilarious you don't have to be complicated.
Speaker 2:You know, you're exactly yeah. You can enjoy it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. Okay, well, so you are. You've already hinted at it. You're a wine writer. You post on Instagram. You do have a day job, and I think I'd like to start real quick with the day job and then kind of move into your book. So, kayla K and L wine merchants I'm familiar with this name, but tell me a little bit about that place and you know what do you do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great shop.
Speaker 2:It's a family owned store.
Speaker 2:We have three locations I'm in the Hollywood one, but it's also in Redwood City in Northern California and San Francisco, with more on the way and we have a huge online presence, yeah, which is especially exciting because you know we can write reviews or email blast that go out to more people and are able to make it into the shop.
Speaker 2:So that's a cool aspect of it. But what is especially great about it, I think, is we have buyers that are pretty intrepid and they go to the regions that they represent and they find smaller producers and bring them back, so we're able to offer more value, because it's sort of these like lesser known producers that are producing incredible stuff, great quality, but just might not be, you know, the top of the list in terms of popularity yet right. So it's a really good variety and Are the owners are especially enamored with Bordeaux, so our Bordeaux selection is incredible and my job there I've had a lot. During the pandemic I bounced around to doing Deliveries and some of the operations in the back warehouse, but my specialty at the store is champagne, uh-huh, so I focus on that. And sake with my Again, the certification that no one wants.
Speaker 1:So and you do write reviews for the website. Is that correct, correct?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah so, and so I read some of them. And Do you have like a lot of fun writing these? Because it sounds like you have fun with that.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, well, I I mean, I'm literally on a podcast right now talking about wine, but I love, I love to talk about wine, as I guess it is obvious, and I like to write the reviews because, again, my main goal with wine is to get more people on board and to get more people to feel comfortable ordering it or talking about it, and Because K&L has some slightly lesser known Producers.
Speaker 2:Sometimes people don't know it right off the bat. I think my most recent interview was for a peak pool de pinet, which is an area of France that maybe is not at the tip of everybody's tongue, but it's a really delicious, crisp, dry white, which is something that people are always asking for. Yeah, yeah, it's something that you know. If you tasted it blind would be really well received across the board, right, but you know, looking at a label with just all these French words, like you might not pick it off the shelf. So I like writing the reviews because I can sort of Disciple the language that's on the label, so I'm almost like translating right, yes, and I really like that because it does seem like it's just a.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm writing this to a friend in a sense, you know, professionally, but it's it's almost like it's written for a friend to get them excited about it.
Speaker 2:I'm so grateful that you think this, because sometimes you really get into the weeds talking about the nose and the palette and the tannic finish and I feel like I'm writing the same sorts of things over and over. So I very much appreciate that you caught that. I do try to make them Somewhat entertaining and really Education focused. I mean, on the other hand, this is work for me. It's not my Instagram profile, so I do operate within the parameters of professionalism and you know what course or wants to project for that particular product. So I'm a little more restrained than I am on on line, but I do. I do think we just have such an interesting selection of products that I want people to Really understand and I really want people to like, want to opt in to that. So I try to, I try to push, I try to push the aspect of inclusivity that way right.
Speaker 1:I, like I said I really love that, and I think that's exactly kind of going with what we've been talking about here for the last 10 minutes or so, about getting wine, making wine approachable and Making it something. That is not just what, what a lot of people visualize when they're thinking about wine, and that is, you know, snoodiness and oh my gosh, you have to be so fancy to be drinking this wine. Well, no, actually you don't have to be that fancy person. You just got to have a willingness to try it and you know, see how it works for you. Do you like it? Based on you know your own taste and based on you know what somebody else says to you without intimidating you.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, do you like? It is exactly the right, the white right way to phrase it, like that's the only thing that matters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, the first winery that I ever worked at. At the time, their motto was if you like it, it's a good wine. Yeah there are some.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe we don't need to go down this with this rabbit hole. I mean, there are some exceptions with like mass produced sure.
Speaker 1:Yes, and. But even then I will make a point that you know some people find their way into wine by the mass produced wines, yes, you know, and Then kind of working their way through that and working their way into you know, okay, so I've, I've found a taste for this and I'm having fun with it. Now let's try some new things and kind of working their way into this wine world that is. You know, also Some really like I don't know unique Wines for from regions that they've never tried before. I mean, it's it's always about, you know, wanting to Explore, of course right.
Speaker 2:Well, that's an interesting point. Like I think we get a lot of customers at the store asking for prisoner and thinking that's the best wine They've ever had. But when you explain, hey, look like orange Swift isn't even involved in this anymore Like right, prisoner wine company. So what you think you're drinking is not what you're drinking. And so like what did you like about it? And like what are the grapes in the original blend? And like how to branch out to you know more Individualized versions of that? And you know, let's like now distill it down into what you liked about it, aside from the label. And you know, and so it does. You're right, I didn't think of it that way, but it does. It does help for people to have only the knowledge of these, these like big brands, because you can then be like great, what do you like about it?
Speaker 2:And then I mean sometimes if it's like K-Mess and they're just like, well, I just like that, it's good. Or, you know, in in champagne it's like I like Vove because it's, it's the best and it's sort of like all right, that's not a taste, though, right, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah, I like that. That's that's saying I like it because somebody else told me that that's the thing to like.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly. And again, it rolls back into wine being intimidated, and so if someone that you perceive to be smart you know everybody has a friend that they think is better at wine than them, whether or not it's true, Everybody has someone that they default to.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:For me it was an uncle who loved Jordan Alexander Valley Cab and so anytime I would see it on the menu anywhere, any list, I would get that, because it was the only thing I felt confident ordering. That was, you know, quote, unquote, good or classic, right or whatever you know. And then I kind of broke it down to like, all right, well, what other cabs are there in Alexander Valley that I might like? And then it kind of broke down to like what other cabs are there? And then it you know, all of a sudden I realized like Bordeaux has cab that's a totally different animal Right In grape and so you can go from there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. Well, that's a much longer than I expected us talking about that kind of stuff. I have my questions all sitting here. I'm like this is fun.
Speaker 2:I even wrote. When you said, like how do you write your reviews? I wrote a little guide about like the order. You know that I write them in and what I focus on. So I really thought I was going to be giving like a guide to reviews, but we've really gone off on a tangent here, I think. I like this better. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So you are working on a book and I definitely am very curious what is the book? Like the book, what is it going to be and do you have like? Are you going to self publish or are you going to be working with a publisher or I?
Speaker 2:don't know, the publishing industry is in a big state of flux right now. So, you know, gone are the days where you get like a book deal in an advance, unless you're a Kardashian or something. So I think maybe like hybrid publishing, I don't know. I don't know that aspect of it yet, but I can tell you what it's about. It's tentatively titled the confident wine drinker. That's why my online presence is confident drinker and it's what we've been talking about so far. It's just you know what are the things that you can do as a wine enthusiast that will take you to the next level. It's not wine for dummies and it's not an encyclopedia or anything like that. It really is just designed for people who are otherwise really savvy. You know Bon Vivant's people who might be foodies, people who might be really successful in their own industries. So it's not necessarily like wine 101, but it is people who already are like enjoying this lifestyle and just might be missing one or two key things to focus on to get their wine knowledge up to that next level.
Speaker 1:Well, I am going to be very, very curious about it. So I am definitely keeping up with what you're up to there out in your world, because I want to read it.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you, I really appreciate that. I will keep you posted.
Speaker 1:Yeah, please, please do, OK. So I am going to just go buy your pictures that I've seen on Instagram. So you do seem like you're a little bit younger than me.
Speaker 2:I maybe not.
Speaker 1:Maybe you just look really great and I have to really kind of start working on my own.
Speaker 2:All the antioxidants in wine right.
Speaker 1:OK, OK, what can I ask for an age range?
Speaker 2:Well, I guess I could just tell you I'm going to be 43 on Friday.
Speaker 1:You are kidding me, see. I thought you were like 30. Well, thank you. I mean honestly, this is OK. All right, you're not that much younger than me.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you just sunscreen and wine.
Speaker 1:Right, yes, ok, so I got to drink more wine. That's it, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's the only way. It's the way to get better at tasting, it's the way to improve your knowledge and also, you know, keeps your skin healthy.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, for sure, that's very true. All right, well, so then I'm going to just ask you, as you're interacting with wine drinkers of all ages, are you noticing a big difference in tastes between older and younger people? And the reason I'm asking is I guess it was a Forbes headline and I didn't actually read the article yet because I know it's just going to upset me Because of the you know just everything is so dark and bleak saying, you know we're going to lose Gen Z as wine drinkers, and there's like they're kind of I don't know, there's like a sense of panic going on and I'm like I don't know. I haven't really experienced that working in wineries. I, you know. I mean, yes, there's more Gen X than there's Gen Z, or millennials than there's Gen Z, but I do get some Gen Z coming into the wineries and curious to learn Do you have like an experience where you know, yes, there's more wine drinkers in Gen X than Gen Z or millennials, and and what are their wine tastes?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't have any panic about this, because I do see customers come in who are Gen Z and I don't see people not drinking anytime soon. But what is different is the things that they ask for, and I see Gen Z asking for a lot more trendy things. We get a lot of people who walk in and we'll say, like, where's your natural wine section or where's your orange wine section? And I think what that is showing is that, again, people don't know what they like. And at a hip bar and they say something about how they only have natural wines on the list and so that's what they ask for. But it's really doing them a disservice, because that's not the first question you should be asking. You know I fully support biodynamic farming, but if you are, the only criteria is that it's a non-interventionist wine maker. That could be anything, you know. You don't know if you're getting a heavy handed red or a really light white. It's just you're just asking for how it's made. And so I think the more the younger generation can learn what they like, then they'll be wine drinkers, because it won't just be like I want an orange wine because someone said it was cool on TikTok. It will be like. I really like skin contact wines from Greece. What do you have that is similar to that? Yeah, so I'm not worried, and I think also that's why things like white claw you know these hard ciders, these hard seltzers are so popular because they're easy.
Speaker 2:Right Before, it was like I don't know what kind of wine. I guess Stellarosa tastes pretty good, and now it's like here's just something that I know is going to be good. Yeah, and you know, for some people is like low calorie, low sugar, like they're concerned about these sorts of buzzwords. Gluten free, you know which? All wines gluten free too. It has grapes, but they don't put that on the label. So if you're worried about that, you're not necessarily going to grab a bottle of wine, but you might grab a case of you know this canned seltzer. And I think once people kind of bounce back from like I'm just defaulting to this because it's something that I know, then they'll be wine drinkers, because they'll know wines too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I can see where this easiness is very attractive to people. I had a white claw yesterday and you know, you pop the can open, you don't think about it much. It was a mango-flavored one. I enjoyed it, I, you know it was very lovely, and so I can totally see that.
Speaker 1:And you know, I think another thing that really struck me was when I interviewed Mariam Ahmed, who said you know, there has to be an openness to what this younger generation wants and not what we need from them. Yes, I totally agree, and that really, and I was totally in that mindset of, well, we need young wine drinkers. Well, and she said, why do we need young wine drinkers? Why aren't we asking the young wine drinkers or young adults, what do you want and what do we need to do to? You know, go with the times and make them, you know, excited about it. You know, and I think it's so important too, that we're we're talking about wine as a, you know, like what Maria Ponzi says, it's a four ounce pour. It's not something to get drunk on necessarily, it's just a. You know, here's your dinner, have a glass of wine with it, enjoy it and that's it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, and you know, I think too, if we listen to the younger generation, it's sort of what we want to Like, if we don't roll our eyes and push back too hard. Like I think hand wine is great. I live quite close to the Hollywood Bowl. I totally get the appeal of taking a couple of cans and walking down there and not having to remember to bring a wine key or you know heavy glass bottle, like I did it, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:And you know natural wine. I much prefer non-interventionist winemakers who take care of the soil and so like. That is what I like too. But when someone walks in and asks for that as a trendy, like buzzword, it rubs you the wrong way immediately, you know, because you're like you don't care about wine. You just heard this thing that you think is cool, but you sound uneducated to a wine professional. Instead, you can be like okay, I also appreciate those values in a farmer. What taste profile are you looking for? That also fits in those parameters. Yeah, so I mean, I get what they want. I don't want to like belittle them is like they're not drinking wine and they don't know what they're doing and this whole generation is ruining it for the rest of us, because I think we should look through the lens of what they're asking for and sometimes they're right and we just need to spin it a little bit to include them.
Speaker 1:And I really do think that we are, here in the United States anyway, kind of in a good position because we don't. We are not bound by so many laws as European countries. You know, you just look at France and Germany, you look at Italy and how this is such a, you know, long, long history of wine. We are not bound by all of these laws and we can make wine really fun, yes, so let's do it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, here we go. Change in the world, one podcast episode of time. There you go, there you go, all right. Well, so in as far as the wine industry goes for you, so you are in your early 40s and almost happy birthday. Where do you see yourself going in these next five to 10 years? You know what are your hopes and dreams for these, these next, I don't know the next decades, the next decade?
Speaker 2:I hope to travel more. You know, I'm really never happier than I am when I'm actually looking at the vines and listening to the wine maker.
Speaker 2:I feel that and you learn so much more that way.
Speaker 2:You know, like I was recently in Penedes in Spain and I was with Reventos and they have sort of separated from Cava to be their own Dio, and they're calling themselves Conca Del Rio and Neuva, which is like the little area that they're in, and their Kava's well, they're not Kava's anymore.
Speaker 2:Sparkling wine from Penedes are kind of expensive and you know I'm the champagne person at the store, so when I'm like I don't know, this Spanish sparkling is almost the same price as at real champagne, like it doesn't seem worth it. But then you go there and you see that they're, you know, plowing with a horse and these vineyards are, you know, so tiny and you're like, okay, so of course this is going to be pricey. They only have, like this tiny row of vines and they only are using these specific varieties that are native to this area of Spain and their soil literally has these fossilized seashells from, you know, thousands of years. Like this has to be expensive. You cannot physically make this product less than it is. Yeah, and I feel like people would be more open-minded if they were able to actually visit wine, absolutely what goes into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I do think that's why it's so great for many people to you know, as they break into the wine industry, to work, harvest and things like that yeah, to really get a better understanding of how much work goes into wine production that it's not just this fancy little tasting room that you're in and you're getting this service and you know drinking wine from a beautiful stem glass, but that there is hard physical labor that goes into creating this wine. That really makes you appreciate. You know how expensive wine can be.
Speaker 2:Right, and that there are just fixed costs that cannot be changed. Before you do any marketing, before you do, you know, and I think people like to say, oh, california wine is very expensive, but like, look what real estate is in California, you know how much you pay for your apartment. Like, what do you think a winery is paying? Right, and Very good point. Right, you know water is expensive and you know, like there's a lot of wineries in California that don't practice dry harvest, so it's like the vacation is not free, and so to me it's like you wouldn't necessarily think of those things unless you were really on the ground. So, yeah, so I like to travel. I guess this is really a roundabout way of answering your question.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, there is the next question. Boom Next. So yeah, so I am curious. So you said you were in Spain, so if you've been to Spain I know you've been to other countries as well to travel to wineries and tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 2:Yes, mostly France. I love champagne, and actual champagne. Sure, I mean, that's an incredible area to visit. Yeah, I also. My real favorite winemaking country is Germany.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh, I'm not just saying that for you. But my sister lives there and when I visit her I always try to sneak in, trip somewhere, partially selfishly, because I love Riesling and I love cool climate Pinot Noir so it is, you know tugs at my taste buds to go there. But I just love how kind the German winemaking community is. I recently was in the R region in the aftermath of the floods and to see how, like winemakers from the Mosul and Faults left their own harvest to come and help, it's really heartwarming. And then, of course, then they're making these awesome wines. You know and you know they have these same hallmarks this like volcanic soil and the slate and the terraced vineyards, like it's gorgeous to see. It's making the most incredible wine possible because the conditions are so good there to create these high acid, like age worthy wines. Yeah, then they're so nice there and Well, that makes me very happy.
Speaker 2:We could have a whole spin off podcast about why I love German wine.
Speaker 1:There you go. We will never run out of episodes. Yes, definitely.
Speaker 2:I like Santa Barbara too. You know our local Right, oh for sure, well things too yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I really would like to spend some time this summer actually, or, you know, whenever I have the ability to just kind of take a long weekend trip down to Napa, because it's close enough to where I am in Oregon that I actually can make that a weekend trip Right. So I definitely have been to Napa before, but it's a long time ago and I wasn't really into the wine industry yet. I always loved wine, but to actually go there and look at it through, you know, different eyes is really really appealing to me, so I'm hoping that this year is going to work out for that.
Speaker 2:Or you can go north. I mean, a lot of great stuff is happening and yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's very true. Yeah, of course, you know I talk about traveling in every single episode, so I really just need to make it a reality, yeah.
Speaker 2:You're in a good spot, though. I mean, willan is spectacular. Yes, absolutely. You know camp back in 2015 and like those memories have stuck with me, like I still can imagine what it was like to visit those wineries there. They were so also magical. So, yeah, can't get it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's a pretty nice. It's a pretty nice region for sure. I'm very fortunate to live here, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So we are approaching the end of the episode, but I do have one last question for you, and that is, of course, if money was not a consideration, what would be your actual dream job in the wine industry, and where would it be? Oh, I mean, could I be like the chef de?
Speaker 2:I mean, could I be like the chef de? I mean, could I be like the chef de?
Speaker 1:I mean, could I be like the chef de?
Speaker 2:I mean, could I be like the chef de? I mean, could I be like the chef de? I mean, could I be like the chef?
Speaker 1:de. I mean, could I be?
Speaker 2:like the chef de. I mean, could I be like the chef?
Speaker 1:de.