Note: Podcast transcription edited to improve readability.
Tom Hameeuw: 0:06
And this is also, for me, the great value of XR Valley: bringing together people with different backgrounds with different expertise and together, creating the best experience.
Desiree Timmermans: 0:18
Hey, everybody. Thank you so much for checking out the podcast XR Valley Talk, where we engage your conversations with leading Belgian voices in Extended Reality.
Desiree Timmermans: 0:31
In this episode, Jelle Demanet and I, Desiree Timmermans, have a conversation with Tom Hameeuw, Founder of The Pack studio. We talk about the value of XR Valley in Belgium to create better experiences, the VR customer case FLUX at Danone Nutricia Research, and the future of XR.
Desiree Timmermans: 0:52
Let's begin.
Desiree Timmermans: 0:55
Tom, welcome.
Tom Hameeuw: 0:56
Thank you for having us on this podcast.
Desiree Timmermans: 0:58
Tom. You're a Founding Member of XR Valley. What does XR Valley mean to you?
Tom Hameeuw: 1:03
XR Valley wants to bring together all the companies, creatives, and innovation companies that work in the XR industry. And we are very happy to be a founding member because we have a lot of companies here in Belgium that have some great stuff to offer, some great solutions, and some great innovations. And I think it's really important to gather all this knowledge and to bring the people in these companies together. Because I truly believe that together we can offer a better package towards anybody who is interested in XR and because each company has its competencies working in its niche. And bringing all this knowledge together makes we can better service our clients. That is why we are very happy to be a founding member of XR Valley.
Desiree Timmermans: 1:46
And we're going to talk today about a case named FLUX. It's from Danone Nutricia Research. But before we deep-dive: what is the link between science and XR, and how does it create opportunities?
Tom Hameeuw: 2:00
XR creates a lot of opportunities to explain and engage your audience. In the case of the FLUX program, the idea was to explain what they did in the research department of Danone. And, of course, this is rather complicated: these are scientists, it's labs, they're investigating bacteria. So it's a large distance if you're not a real specialist. And thanks to XR, you have the opportunity to tell a story and to bring this closer to the people and for sure to engage them.
So, for me, the real advantage of XR in the case of the FLUX Project - we used virtual reality - is that you can really immerse your visitor or your client or your stakeholder in the world and really tell your story by immersing the person into the story. And also, this results in a better engagement and understanding of the story you want to tell. You can go further with that: you can go into training, or you can do other things. But at The Pack, we are specialists in storytelling. And it allowed us to tell it in a really low-level way. And to engage people who are not scientists, who are not experts to really understand in a very comprehensive way, what the scientists at Danone Research are doing, how they are creating better foods, and how they take care of our health. So, this is really a great opportunity to do this with virtual reality.
Desiree Timmermans: 3:24
Okay, I understand. So it's not only brand awareness and brand experience; it's also to generate more revenue by giving your consumers a better experience so that they understand what is going on. And that, for instance, the yogurt from Danone has a scientific background and is good for you. Is that correct?
Tom Hameeuw: 3:44
In this case, it was really to explain what they do with the research department and how yogurt has a positive impact on the health of somebody. And, of course, if you take it into other consumer goods, you can tell other stories. So, it creates really a large opportunity for telling and engaging not only customers but also employees inside the company or other stakeholders visiting your company or being interested in what is going on.
So, it's brand awareness, but also like communication more in general and also towards the own employees. That is also why the FLUX program is in place: to better engage employees, visitors, and stakeholders to understand what they do at the research department. And in a broader perspective, for every company that wants to communicate towards stakeholders and employees, it creates many opportunities to explain in a low-level way, sometimes rather complex processes. It could be, for example, also a beer brewery or whatever. Everything is possible in XR; that is why it's, for us, a great tool.
Jelle Demanet: 4:50
I also have a question: So how does Danone reach its customers? What hardware did they use? Is it limited to specific hardware? Can they use it at a bigger scale, or is it something at a central location, for example?
Tom Hameeuw: 5:02
The first phase of the program is in a booth. So, if you visit Danone in Paris, you can enter a booth. So this is a fixed installation. Now when launching the program, they're looking into porting into mobile devices to really expose it on a larger scale. Also, this - with the technology evolving very rapidly in XR - creates a lot of opportunities, not only for the Flux program but also for other companies willing to explore the world of XR.
The time is already behind us to think about fixed location-based installations. We believe all the mobile developments and innovations evolving so rapidly will create many opportunities to do it at different locations. And also at the spectator or your visitor at home. We believe it will be possible to have VR experiences at home using 5G. So this creates whole new worlds to engage with your audience and the people you want to reach.
Desiree Timmermans: 5:58
And Tom, can you explain to us the experience?
Tom Hameeuw: 6:03
Yes, of course. So it all started with the requests from Danone Research to tell the story behind their scientific research. And the mission began with Danone saying: okay, we know our story; we know it very good. But we are the scientists. And if we are going to explain it, we're going to do it in a scientific way. But we come to The Pack because you are the storytellers.
So they gave us all the information about what they do, how they work, what they do in labs and all these kinds of scientific information. And we had a look at it, and we analyzed it. And we started thinking of how we were going to approach this. And it also started with: what is the best technology? Because it was not defined from the beginning what we were going to do. You could work with, e.g., standard video or a projection. But rather quickly, in this case, we thought it would be really good to work within virtual reality. Take the visitor, your audience, with you. Having the real focus, immerse the person on a journey for 10 to 15 minutes, not too long. And that's actually the first experience that we started to develop.
The creative idea that we came up with is: to take you really on a flight. So if you start the experience, you take off, lift off, in a spaceship, a bit Star Wars style. And you dive into a pot of yogurt, and then you dive into your body. So you go into the stomach, and from the stomach, you go into the intestines. And while you are in yourself controlling the spaceship, the voiceover is taking you through the story of Flux. And you can really engage the visitor and take him on a journey. So the first experience is also called: The Journey.
And they noticed that people really are better understanding the story because they experience it. It is very different from just leaning back and watching a video or a presentation. Here you need to engage, you lean forward, and you go into the story. And this is really a great way of taking your audience with you.
Desiree Timmermans: 8:02
And did you already get feedback from the visitors? What was their experience?
Tom Hameeuw: 8:07
Until now all the visitors are really very enthusiastic about it. It was a project launched during the COVID-19 pandemic. Nobody could ever imagine the length of this crisis. So, it means that now they're really starting to roll out the Flux program. Until now, everybody experiencing it is really very enthusiastic. And they also noticed that the people who did the experience are better aware of the story: they better understand it than just having a lean-back presentation or video.
Jelle Demanet: 08:38
So you start from the storytelling. And then, depending on the needs, you use the technology. Is this something that you had handled as a kind of a community? Or do you have all this in-house expertise?
Tom Hameeuw: 8:49
A project like this is always a collaboration, of course. In the case of the Flux program, we were selected by HealthSkouts, a company helping bigger corporations with their communication strategy. And there, we work together with Cederik Haverbeke as an XR strategist. So he was also helping to define which technology, how we're going to tell the story.
So, I think, certainly, for XR, it's never stand-alone. It's not one company or person that can do everything. And this is, also for me, the great value of XR Valley: bringing together people with different backgrounds, with different expertise and together creating the best experience.
And we, as The Pack, are rather used to working this way. So the company's background is: we come out of the television and cinema worlds. We are image specialists. And the real competence is the visual effects. So, this is adding or removing everything that is not possible in the real world: explosions, all these kinds of things. And also 3D animation, adding, for example, an animated dragon into a live-action film. So we are very used to working together with different stakeholders.
Desiree Timmermans: 9:59
Okay. Tom, what are the lessons you learned from Flux, the VR program?
Tom Hameeuw: 10:05
The lessons learned is that we learned a lot about the science of bacteria and how they can improve the products and see what is good for your health. But more in general, we learned a lot about listening: what is the story you want to tell, what is your expectation, what do you want to get out of an XR experience, and what is your audience? And starting from these elements, putting together what we think is the best solution, both on the technology and storytelling level.
So, the first experience we developed for FLUX was the journey with the spaceship and exploring the human body. And the second experience is inside the lab, and it's more gamification. So you're going to start playing with bacteria. And if you combine the good ones, you win and can go to the next level. And this was, for us, a rather new thing; games are something we really want to explore. Because the mission, and the DNA, of The Pack, is that we want to be able to create content for any platform: gaming, virtual reality, and augmented reality. So this was more the serious gaming.
For us, the lessons learned are: taking into account very different stakeholders, also the scientific inputs, bringing this all together, together with the team, and working towards the best outcome. And a very important element also in the experience is the sound. So, we work together with Demute, an immersive sound company also based in Brussels, Belgium. And it was a real pleasure working together with experts used to creating sound experiences in an immersive world. It's really a matter of teamwork. And this is the lesson learned.
Jelle Demanet: 11.42
If I ask the question about talent: what would you need in the future? Is it more like integrator profiles? Do you need specialists?
Tom Hameeuw: 11:49
That's a very good question, Jelle. Developers are a real bottleneck, in our case, to find them and also engage them to come and work in the media industry. Because as we all know, the salaries are not the highest. So developers for us are really difficult to find. And then, at this point, the people who have the skills and are being used to work with the real-time engines: not only for gaming but using it to create content and also for other experiences. So these are, for us, the two main missing profiles.
Jelle Demanet: 12.19
In all industries, these programmers are really a bottleneck. And I think that will only worsen in the future because most companies that want to do the transformation will have to have these in-house developers or programmers that can help them with that.
Tom Hameeuw: 12:31
But, I think if people see what the outcome is and what the possibilities are, then they will be more enthusiastic about working with it. That is what we see in our company: people sometimes make the choice to shift from a more classical industry into the media industry. Because they say: okay, this is what I love, this is what I want to do, it's my passion. And that's the advantage we have.
Jelle Demanet: 12:53
And in the media, these programmers and creatives, can you find that in one person?
Tom Hameeuw: 12:58
I do not believe that you can find all these competencies in one person. It's better to say: okay, this is really somebody who wants to focus on the development sites, but he has this feeling with creative projects. And this is what you see at our company. These people are really happy to go to a movie premiere or to be part of the creative process. And, of course, our creative people also have this tech-savviness: they are interested in what is going on on a technical level. Most of the creative people working at our company are at the edge of technology and creativity.
Jelle Demanet: 13.37
And you're working with all these technical people; your background, is that also something technical, or is it more from the storytelling that you arrived in this domain?
Tom Hameeuw: 13.47
I studied history. So it's something completely different. I'm interested in it. But I already knew I wouldn't focus my professional career on that. And what I really like to do is being an entrepreneur: doing startups and bringing teams together. That is my passion. It is also why this industry is good for me and why I fit in because it's project-based. So each time again, you need to think of themes, you need to think of how are we going to approach this project or film. And I also like the innovation part of what we are doing. Because, I believe, certainly in the media industry: if you're not going with the technology, you will become obsolete, so your company will disappear.
Jelle Demanet: 14:30
I think that's a very nice example. And it also gives hope to people that don't have a technical background: don't be afraid to become an entrepreneur in the XR industry.
Desiree Timmermans: 14:41
And being more diverse also can be more creative. And if you want to understand where we are going, of course, you have to understand where we are coming from. And based on your study, that's what you did, Tom. So my next question, of course, is, where are we going?
Tom Hameeuw: 14.57
I think this technology is creating a world of opportunities and possibilities. And I truly believe in the mix of the real physical worlds and what you can do in XR and how you bring the two of them together. I'm not a believer that everything is going to become the metaverse or will be XR. I think people need to be in touch with other people. But what I do think is that it will create an enormous amount of possibilities. Even things that today we are not imagining, but also making our lives more comfortable. For example, if you use XR in the virtual worlds for going to fit clothes: I don't like shopping, so for me, that would be something really cool. That is what I think where we are going.
And, of course, to jump to artificial intelligence: where are we going to limit it, and how are you going to do regulations? But I do not believe in trying to stop these kinds of evolutions. But it will be a balancing act: how are we going to integrate it into our lives?
Jelle Demanet: 16:01
That's a hot topic, of course: will AI help creativity, or will it compete with human creativity? How do you look at that?
Tom Hameeuw: 16.08
So where is AI going to? I think it will be good for our creativity. It will create new opportunities. If you go to the ChatGPT, it can maybe create the first version of a text for you. But then you will work with it, and you will put your insights into it, you will add it. I don't believe that it will take over.
One of the regulations that I can imagine is that they're going to say: ChatGPT needs to say where it gets the information from. And, I think, on a technological level; it should be possible. And then you can say: okay, this text generated by AI, do I trust it or not? Because you can check the sources of it. So these kinds of things, I think, we will need to put them in place. And I think humans are creative enough to think about solutions.
Jelle Demanet: 16:57
Now you're talking about text generation but for content creation: how do you see the impact of XR on your business?
Tom Hameeuw: 17.05
It will be huge. I think not many of my colleagues will like to hear it, but I believe that a lot of the work that's now being done almost manually will be done by software. A lot of evolutions will have an impact on our industry. But then, I think we will again have an added value because then the first part of the work is done. And then you will add new stuff.
Desiree Timmermans: 17:29
Interesting. Is there anything you would like to share with our listeners that I didn't ask you yet?
Tom Hameeuw: 17.35
I think XR Valley for Belgium will have a real added value to bring together all the knowledge that we have here in Belgium to create better experiences.
Desiree Timmermans: 17:45
Well, thanks for that. And Jelle, would you like to add something?
Jelle Demanet: 17.48
I want to work at The Pack studio now.
Desiree Timmermans: 17:51
So Tom, where can we apply?
Tom Hameeuw: 17.53
jobs@thepack.studio
Desiree Timmermans: 17:57
Tom, it was really a pleasure to talk with you, and I certainly learned from it. So thank you very much.
Tom Hameeuw: 18.04
Thank you for inviting us.
Jelle Demanet: 18.05
Thank you very much.
Desiree Timmermans: 18:07
Thanks a lot for listening to this episode of XR Valley Talk. We gladly connect with you. So feel free to get in touch via our website: XRValley.be
