049. Sara Dunn: Founder of Sara Does SEO

Finding your niche in business isn’t always smooth sailing. Our latest podcast guest, Sara Dunn of Sara Does SEO, spent years exploring different areas of digital marketing before she landed on a niche she loves.

As an SEO specialist, Sara helps wedding professionals rise above the noise and get found on Google. Her framework has helped over one million searchers find the wedding advice they were looking for.

Sara shares some surprising ways her business has changed since niching down, as well as her best tips for navigating the transition from generalist to specialist.

WILDFLOWER SHOWNOTES : shannaskidmore.com/sara-dunn

Transcript

Sara Dunn (00:00):

And I'll never forget the moment that it hit me. I had done a big pitch for a local jewelry store and I really wanted this project. I had some good ideas for him. I wanted to redesign the website, help him rank higher. And I was following up, following up. I didn't hear back and he eventually got back to me and he said, Sarah, I really appreciate your proposal, but actually my niece is taking a web design class in college, so she's going to do it for us. And I was like, oh no, this is on me. Like I'm disappointed I lost this business, but this is on me because I can't articulate why what I do has more value than someone who's taking a three credit course at college.

Shanna Skidmore (00:41):

You are listening to Consider the Wildflowers the podcast episode 49. When it comes to seo, consider me on the bench. Search. Engine optimization isn't something I even knew existed until a few years ago, let alone have any clue how to optimize. While money and finance are my can-do with my eyes shut expertise, you don't have to hang around here long to know that technology is my kryptonite. Yet doing business in the current attention economy requires small business owners to figure out how to be heard and found by their ideal clients more than ever before. Enter today's guest. She has a gift for getting clients found on Google. Yes, please. And helping small business owners arise above the noise to get their services in front of their ideal clients. I consider her work a superpower. Meet Sarah of Sarah does. S e o. Today's guest on the show, if you dig professional bios, here goes.

(01:31)
Sarah Dunn is a wedding s e o specialist for wedding professionals who want their website to rank higher on Google with a knack for making SEO o easy to understand. She created a unique wedding SEO O framework that simplifies what it takes to get your business in front of your dream clients. Sarah was named a Wedding Pro educator for 2023 and has presented to audiences including Wedding Pro, wedding mba, and two Bright Lights. Last year. Her framework helped over 1 million searchers find the wedding pros and advice they were looking for. If you're ready to reach rockstar status on Google, Sarah's ready to be your geeky best friend that shows you how it's done. All right, formal introduction over, let's hear from Sarah. Hey, it's Shana and this is Consider the Wildflowers, the podcast. For the past 15 plus years, I've had the honor to hear thousands of stories from entrepreneurs around the world.

(02:20)
As a former Fortune 100 financial advisor, turn business consultant, I have a unique opportunity to see the reel. Behind the highlight reel. I'm talking profit and loss statements, unpaid taxes, moments of burnout, and those of utter victory. Or as my husband says, the content everyone is wondering but not many are talking about. And now I'm bringing these private conversations to you. Hear the untold stories of how industry leaders, founders, and up and coming entrepreneurs got their start, the experiences that shaped them and the journey to building the brands they have today. Stories that will inspire and reignite encourage to redefine success and build a life in business on your own terms. Welcome Wildflower. I'm so glad you're here. Hey, welcome to the show. I'm so excited that you're here.

Sara Dunn (03:02):

Hey, I am so glad to be here and to talk money with you and business. These are my favorite kinds of conversations.

Shanna Skidmore (03:10):

I'm really excited. Okay, so I was introduced to you, I think I shared this with you when I emailed you, but one of my students took your course on seo, and as we were talking before we hit record, I was like, I just learned about SEO like a minute ago. And technology is like, I'm so bad at it. So Kyle, my husband came on as our CMO couple years ago, but he's really moved into the marketing role in the last year and he has a marketing degree, which most people don't know. But he looked at the website and he was like, Shana, I mean you have nothing seo. I think I had like 1200 heading one headings or something on one page. Yeah. He's like not 1200, maybe it was like 73. It was 73. I exaggerated just then. Either way, it's

Sara Dunn (03:55):

A lot.

Shanna Skidmore (03:56):

It's a lot. You're supposed to have one people. That's what I've just learned. So anyways, I listened. So my student told me about you, Sarah, and then I listened to your episode and I'll link it in the show notes on Elizabeth McCray's Yes podcast. And it was so good. I learned so much. I listened to it like two or three times. So I'm very excited to have you on the show to share your entrepreneurial journey. But anybody listening, Sarah is the queen. I learned already so much about SEO from her, so thank you for coming on the show. Thank tell everybody who you are and what you do now, and then we're going to kick it back kind of to life before business.

Sara Dunn (04:33):

Well, thank you so much. I appreciate that you took the time to listen and I love joining different entrepreneurs on podcasts and talking a little bit about what I do and what I geek out about. So my current business is actually called Sarah does s e o and I specialize in s e o for the wedding industry. So most of my clients these days are wedding professionals who serve couples getting married, wedding planners, venues, photographers. And I like to say that I specialize in how engaged couples search online. So my job is to help wedding business owners get found online. And I've been specifically focused in this niche doing really specific work like this since 2018. So that's when Sarah does s e o was born. And I'm actually kind of moving into a new phase now and starting to offer s e o training for web designers as well because that's actually my background and another group of wonderful people that I would love to help on the technical side of seo.

Shanna Skidmore (05:36):

Oh, that's so good. Because so many small business owners hire or buy a template now for website design. And I know I had an incredible designer and also paired in some website template work, and I think recently they have made it more so SEO heavy. But in the beginning, I mean this is 2017 when my website was done, I didn't make 72 heading one. I didn't even know what that meant. So anyways, I'm so glad. That's such an interesting niche to get into, so I love that. Okay, tell us how this all got started, life before business, what your background sounds like you had a different business before, so kick us back.

Sara Dunn (06:16):

Yes. So actually life before business basically was college. So I started a business straight out of college. I actually started importing wine, which is a really long and strange story that we don't need to get into here. But turns out I knew nothing about importing wine. I just thought it sounded like a really fun business. And through that couple years I actually discovered that the most fun that I had in my first business was making the website for it. So I had known how to code for years. I taught myself how to code in junior high and websites and tech was just something that I always did and helped other people out with. And I don't know why it didn't occur to me from the beginning that that is what I really should be doing, that maybe that was a calling of mine to help people get online and to help with their technology needs.

(07:10)
And it really became something that I did on the side. So while my first business was crashing and burning, I started actually helping people with their website. So I did a couple for free. My mother-in-law was running a political campaign, like a local politics. She was like, well, you make me a website. Someone else that I knew needed a website redesign. And they were like, Hey Sarah, we heard something about this. And I'm like, sure. And by the third web design project, I realized that people would actually pay me to do it. So I said, well, great. And enough word of mouth happened where I realized this really could be a business, and I really just kind of fell into that. So that was about 2012 when this second business of mine got started, and I did digital marketing for any type of business for about six years.

Shanna Skidmore (08:02):

Okay. Wow. Such an interesting story. I'm interested when you said goodbye to the wine business and went pull into the web design side of things.

Sara Dunn (08:13):

So that was about at 2012 and 13, I was doing both of those things. And I think what's really interesting when you hit on what you're supposed to be doing in your business or what you're supposed to be doing in your career, it was just so much more joy for me to get up in the morning and be like, I'm going to work on this website today. I'm going to help this small business owner get online. Through that process, I also started doing all sorts of other things for my clients. So they would be like, Sarah, you did our website. Will you figure out how we post on Facebook? Hey, we want to send an email marketing campaign. Can you figure that out? Hey Sarah, you have all of our brand assets. Can you help us do a billboard? And through that time in my career, I was just like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

(08:59)
Whatever you want, I will figure it out. And all of those things really brought me a lot of joy in the beginning, that feeling of, let me figure it out, let me take this next challenge in a way that my first business really didn't because I just jumped into something I knew nothing about. I had so much more curiosity about digital marketing in general, and I appreciate the time in my life where I got to touch all sorts of little pieces of it. Yes, to billboards, to Facebook ads, yes, to email blasts, figuring out all of those things and learning a little bit of all of them was really, really fun for a long time until it wasn't.

Shanna Skidmore (09:38):

Okay, pause, because now I'm super intrigued. This is so good. You know, you wanted to be an entrepreneur. Do you have entrepreneurs in your family? What made you say right out of college, I'm going to be a business owner and import wine instead of getting a nine to five? Or how did that happen?

Sara Dunn (09:57):

So I didn't grow up in an entrepreneurial family. My dad worked at a corporation, my mom worked for the government, and I always thought that's what I would do. And until I went to college and I had an internship, I was actually the web intern at the Kellogg Company for a summer. That's awesome. And I loved the job. It was so cool. I was editing the website for Poptarts. I for a short time, took down the website for poptarts for several hours, but I got to work on all of these different cool projects, which was awesome, except I realized I hated the whole idea of being in office all day and having to climb the corporate ladder. I'll never forget going to one of their young professionals luncheons and someone raised a hand and asked one of the executives who was presenting, how do I get noticed?

(10:47)
How do I get to the next step? And I was like, is that what a whole corporate career is, this jostling to get noticed and stepping over other people so that you can climb the ladder? And I just realized that wasn't a game that I wanted to play. I really wanted my results to be more tied to my effort. If I figure something out and I do a good job, I think if I own a business, I can be more successful. If I work at a job, I have to hope that someone else sees what I'm doing and gives me the reward for it. So I was like, this corporate ladder climbing is not for me. And I'm so thankful I realized that in college through my internship so that I could try to figure out what was for me a little bit farther down the road.

Shanna Skidmore (11:33):

I'm pretty sure when I emailed you, I said that we need to be besties. And I knew it because I'm like, yet yes to all this, I'm the same. I'm so grateful for my internships. I tried a lot of different internships, a lot of different types of jobs. I feel like that was so impactful for my career move. But I have to ask Sarah, you work in marketing now, you work in seo, that's about getting noticed and about getting recognition, and I had this almost this kind of light bulb clouds parting moment I have recently recognized. I have kind of a limiting belief around sales myself and around marketing. Interesting. And I'm wondering it, I'm wondering if it's exactly what you just said. I was in finance for five years. It was all about walking across the stage, getting the awards, being the best, hitting the sale. And I've pushed back so much against that. And it was all about campaigning for new business all the time, campaigning for new business. So this is totally off script, but it sounds like for someone like me that's so against just campaigning for new business, it how can we climb this ladder getting noticed, getting recognition, but now your whole job is about getting people noticed. Yeah. How do you put those two together?

Sara Dunn (12:51):

Yes. I think for me it's so much about the authenticity of it and where it comes from. So to me, when I was thinking about this corporate ladder climbing, it felt so much I, people were trying to figure out how do I get noticed over someone else? What do I need to do to jockey into this position? Whereas I feel like with marketing, if you come in it from a place of I want to help certain people and this is what I have to offer, it's so much more attracting the right kind of people who actually get a good outcome out of it. And I think with ladder climbing, I couldn't see that anyone was getting a good outcome of it out of it. It was just some sort of race and some game you had to play. And so for me, I can see sales and marketing as a way to elevate great people and great businesses to finding more customers. And no one has to lose in that process. And so that for me, when I get to help a amazing business owner get found by more people they would love to work with, everybody wins. And that's what I love about marketing, especially for small business and great people who I get to know personally.

Shanna Skidmore (14:05):

Okay, Sarah, that's such a huge mental block. I even just recognized just recording this right now, and I wrote down, what is the motivation behind trying to get recognized, trying to get seen? And you're so right, it's a win-win. Kyle and my husband who does all of our marketing have been talking so much, I believe so much in our products, and I hear from our students and clients all the time, this changed my life. I should be out there screaming it from the rooftops, what is holding me back? What is that mental block? And I think it's exactly my friend Erin, sorry, I got on this tangent. It was so good. My friend Erin told me this years ago and it stuck with me. She said, everybody wants to break the glass ceiling, but who is that glass falling on? And I was just like, oh, I know chills. And I was just like, oh, just thinking though about how can I shift the mindset from I think the ickiness of the corporate where I used to feel like campaigning for myself versus yeah, I'm still campaigning, I'm still going out. I'm still sharing and singing it from the rooftops, but it's a win-win for everybody. So yes, thank you for going on that.

Sara Dunn (15:15):

Thank you. Giving an opportunity. Yes, you're providing an opportunity to help. You're not trying to take away the light from anyone else.

Shanna Skidmore (15:23):

Yeah. Yes. How can we, Ugh, this is so good. Okay. Thanks for going on that journey with me. Of course. I love, I think we have complimentary skillsets and I just, I'm excited about it. Okay, so you're doing web design. I want to talk about pricing and stuff, but I want to talk about that actually with your SEO business. So tell me, it sounds like what happened? Where did the web design business go?

Sara Dunn (15:44):

So I was like six years into this business and I had done the whole real building of an agency. So I had a few people on my team. We were a small team of four, and I was really confident in what we could deliver, but what I found was the customer didn't really understand the differentiation of what we were offering versus anyone else. And it was really hard to tell that story when we were complete generalists. So here I am in a digital agency and I'm like, Hey, I'll do your website. I'll design you a billboard, we'll run some Facebook ads for you, we'll help you rank higher on Google. And it was so confusing in the marketing sense because people were like, Sarah, I don't exactly understand what you do. And I'll never forget the moment that it hit me. I had done a big pitch for a local jewelry store and I really wanted this project.

(16:39)
I had some good ideas for him. I wanted to redesign the website, help him rank higher. And I was following up, following up. I didn't hear back. And he eventually got back to me and he said, Sarah, I really appreciate your proposal, but actually my niece is taking a web design class in college, so she's going to do it for us. And I was like, oh no, this is on me. I'm disappointed I lost this business, but this is on me because I can't articulate why what I do has more value than someone who's taking a three credit course at college. This is a problem. And it was in that moment that I said I, IM done knowing a little bit about everything and I want to become a known specialist and an expert in something that's really specific problem was I didn't really know what that was.

(17:27)
And so I went on a whole journey. What am I going to niche down into? That was a year long journey of trying different things and trying to figure it out. But when I met a wedding planner at a conference and helped her with her s e o to rank higher on Google, it was like confetti came out of a cannon, fireworks went off in the sky and I was like, this was so fun. I loved her as a person. I loved the industry and the work. And so thankful for her because she was like, Sarah, this was amazing. I'm going to tell everyone I know about you. And so it all kind of came together into wedding industry, seo, and now I've been here for about five years and it's completely transformed the way that I do business.

Shanna Skidmore (18:13):

Okay. Oh, this is so good. Tell me about the transformation. So did I want to hear just logistically, how did you come up with your offers, your packaging? What do you feel like you did really well? What do you feel like, oh, I had to relearn that or do it over? Was it pricing wasn't right? Tell me just kind of those early days as you were figuring out the seo, it's almost like a new business. How did you create your offers and your pricing and all that?

Sara Dunn (18:38):

What you said? Exactly what I was going to say, which is it felt like starting over. It felt like an entirely new business. So even though I'd been doing SEO and doing marketing, I was essentially trying to get myself seen in a whole new industry that I had never been part of before. And so where a lot of people come into an industry and they figure something out for their own business and then they teach other similar businesses how to do that thing, I was an outsider, so I was like, Hey, I actually don't know a lot about the wedding industry yet, but I can get you found on Google. And so I really set prices pretty low to get started. I wanted to get my foot in the door and do some work and prove myself and have some case studies. So I was doing full SEO projects for like $700, which compared to what I charge now is really not very much. I even did a couple projects completely for free just to make sure that I liked the work and had something that I could talk about and proved that I could get results. So was doing really simple work to start with just to kind of build that up. And it really did feel like starting a completely new business and starting at the ground floor and prices and offers have changed over time based mostly on what people have asked me for, which has been a really fun thing to be able to do.

Shanna Skidmore (20:03):

Yeah, I love what you said. I wrote down proof of concept. I actually really recommend before even I have a little download and it's something I teach with my students and the blueprint model called a business accelerator and it's like the first 10 steps of business to get your foundation sense licensing and getting your domain. But what's funny, I actually think that's secondary to your first year in business. I spent an entire unofficial year in business and it sounds like you just proving the concept, what I did set for free. I love how you said you know got paid, but you wanted case studies. Sometimes I think so often people want to get it right from the beginning, which is a great hope. But getting in there and just doing the work, you figure out so much you figure out what works, what doesn't work, what you want to do, what your clients need from you. So I love that you spent time just figuring that out. What would you say for you as far as a business owner comes really naturally and then what are some things that have been maybe harder for you to learn or figure out as a business owner?

Sara Dunn (21:11):

I would say as a business owner, I love doing the work. So I think a lot of us start a business because we enjoy actually the craft or what the work is. And so there are so many days where I'm like, I just want to sit behind my computer today and just do SEO o, analyze results, look at graphs. That comes really naturally to me. I want to learn. I love learning. And so for me, SEO is this grand experiment all the time where I get to identify patterns and actually analyze what's working. So that's always come really naturally. And to me, the stumbles are a lot of the things related to scaling for years and years now, yes, I've had some team members, but I'm an awful delegator. My whole team will tell you that this is something that is a growth area for me where I really need to document processes, fully delegate and trust other people, not just give them small tasks to complete where they have to report back into me at the end, but truly trust someone else to own a process and own an outcome. That's been something that's been really, really difficult for me. That's kind of like my 2023 focus is team hiring, delegation and figuring that out. So I would say that that's probably where I've been weakest.

Shanna Skidmore (22:34):

Oh, that's a good muscle to build because it's going to stick with you. Thank you for sharing that. So you talked about your big pivot, but how has the business grown in the last five years?

Sara Dunn (22:47):

It's been incredible because I think back in 2018 when I made this decision, I had kind of an idea of what specializing could do for me. So when I was a generalist, I had to touch everything. There was no process for anything because we were doing different things every single week. So I was always the project lead, it was always coming back to me. I was the only one that could post on social media or do the marketing because there was no clear message, there was no clear customer, we weren't talking to anyone specifically. And so again, it was just on me all the time to figure out everything. And I had this really strong gut feeling that if I could specialize, I could actually grow and do a lot of the things that I had heard about online. I could actually write blog posts people wanted to read because they could be so specific to a certain type of person or market.

(23:42)
They wouldn't be like blah, vanilla trying to talk to everyone. It wouldn't be like 10 blog post ideas for small business boring, 10 blog post ideas for wedding planners. Interesting. So I had an idea that maybe all of our marketing would be easier and all of the product delivery would be easier because it would be much more repeatable and much more specific. And so the business has completely changed because it's so specialized. We offer three different things. That is all we do. It's really rare for me to come up with anything custom. I really don't write proposals anymore. It's like this is what we do, this is what we do well, and I say no to everything else.

Shanna Skidmore (24:25):

Was that ever scary?

Sara Dunn (24:28):

No, actually, and I think it's because I transitioned really slowly. So for three years I didn't tell anybody outside the wedding industry what I was doing. So I still ran my general agency and I had Sarah does SEO as a separate website, separate brand, so separate social media. And I always knew that if it didn't work, I could just shut down that part of the business and say, Hey, this was a grand experiment. How fun. We'll go back to doing general digital marketing and I'll figure it out. And just over and over again, it has shown me that it's working progress, audience, all of those things. And I have been really, really lucky with that. And because of that slow transition, I didn't throw everything old into the trash. I made sure that what we were building was going to be sustainable and that made it so much less scary.

Shanna Skidmore (25:25):

Yeah, I know I hear from people a lot. There is a fear in niching down because you're saying no to a lot of businesses, especially early in business, you feel the need to kind of say yes to everything. But it is that idea of the generalist versus the specialist and who gets paid more and who's more sought after. And I'm sure in the SEO world, that's a whole conversation about really being specific. So I have so many ideas already turning, but I do want to ask you about the money and the numbers. As someone who's great at money and terrible at technology myself, as someone who's great at technology and seo, kind of tell me about your relationship with money.

Sara Dunn (26:07):

Yeah, I think I've always tried to lead with the service for my clients and the outcome with the investment. So when I'm trying to price my services, I'm like, what is the outcome of this investment someone's making? Which I think is really easy correlation when you're doing something like marketing, it's like if this activity brings you this many leads and you close this percentage of your leads, there's a real value calculation we can do here. And that I think makes me feel really good about the work that I do, that there is that correlation with the money. I can't say I'm not really good at setting things like revenue goals or profit goals. I feel like my business is always surprising me and I like to give it room to have flexibility. What do we need to invest in three months that I didn't think of? Well, I don't want to necessarily set a certain profit goal if for a certain date if something great comes to me and feels like the right fit at the moment. So I'm very much someone who runs my business based on a lot of gut feelings, what feels right, what feels exciting, and that's really served me well. And so I don't necessarily lead with the numbers and I don't know if that's going to get me in trouble with you, Shannon.

Shanna Skidmore (27:32):

No. When I work with leads with the numbers, so you're not in trouble at all. I love that you talk about, and I don't think we talk about this enough, doing things that you actually enjoy in business. I think there's a lot of should dos and numbers can become a should do numbers for me provide freedom. My business, we have a family business, we have to know our numbers, we have to understand what's coming in and what's coming out. Not that you don't, but if we led with our numbers, that would be no fun. That would just be stressful and not energizing. So I love that you brought up, if you're doing anything that feels like drudgery, at some point you're going to stop doing it. And so enjoying or figuring out how to enjoy, some things have to be done. I mean, we have to do our bookkeeping, we have to file our taxes. Those things have to be done, but we can outsource that. So no, I love that point of understanding and finding joy in your business. Honestly, I think doesn't get talked about in enough. And that's the beauty of entrepreneurship. We got into this to have some fun and make some money and impact the lives. And then somewhere along the way it becomes less important. That makes me sad.

Sara Dunn (28:42):

And that's not to say certainly that I don't look at my number. So at the end of the month, go back through the p and l statement. My husband and I actually do a monthly meeting, we call life dinner. So we talk through our personal finances and then I generally share monthly profit just so he's up to date on what's going on in my business. And so that creates the routine and the habit around looking at our end of the month profit, the revenue we brought in, what were expenses. And that seems to be a kind of sustainable cadence for me versus being someone I had a client once at the end of every single day she looked at receipts and she was so stressed out all the time and I just said, I can't want to do that to myself. I don't want to do it to my team. Let's look at numbers on a basis where it feels interesting and useful and actionable, not overwhelming and scary.

Shanna Skidmore (29:34):

Yeah, I love that. We have a monthly, we call it our money date. So that's how we do it. Okay. What would you say is the thing that you have learned about money?

Sara Dunn (29:43):

I would think the best thing I've learned about money is that it really follows when you give people what they're asking you for, not what you think they should want. And that's something that I've learned a lot through this phase of my business where I've kind of put myself out there with certain services and then just try to build an audience and community so they can tell me what they want. And so the most profitable things that I offer are the things that people asked me to offer, and I appreciate that so much. So I started a workshop, like a live class. It's morphed into my wedding, s e o bootcamp, which is my group program. But the only reason I started it was because people were like, Hey Sarah, I really want to work on my S E o. I can't necessarily budget to hire you right now.

(30:33)
Could you teach me some things that would be helpful? And I was like, yeah, I think I would teach you keywords on-page optimization, a little about blogging and a little about offsite SEO O that sounds like maybe a four day live workshop. Let's do that. And so I threw together my first bootcamp I taught at live. I didn't invest a bunch of money into putting together an online course. It was like, let's just try this out and see if it works. It's what people are asking for. I got 15 people to show up. It was like, oh my gosh, my mind was blown. It was 2019, I was only a year and a half into focusing on the business. I was like, I can't believe 15 people showed up for me as a group and learned, and they did such a good job, and I just listened to what they wanted and what they wanted to learn more. And then I did it again and again and again. And now I've taught Wedding SEO Bootcamp 12 times. So I really think that money for me has flowed e more easily when I give people what they ask me for, not what I try to force on them.

Shanna Skidmore (31:34):

That's so good and can be hard as a creative mind or as a entrepreneur, we want to provide what we want to provide. It can be hard and also can be hard to understand what people are asking for. I find sometimes I feel a little bit too close to what I do to really be like, okay, but what do you need again? So that's something I'm still learning. That's so good. Okay. We've talked a little bit about your shift and your change, but I love the concept of this podcast called Consider the Wildflowers because in a world that really asks us to do everything really well, how have you found harmony in growing a business, living a life? What does success look like to you? I just would love to hear what are some lessons you've learned in learning to build a business that also is enjoyable?

Sara Dunn (32:27):

Yes. This is a hard for me when we talk about balance or harmony because I honestly love what I do. I love my work. And so I've found I'm someone that I love being in worked focus for a little while and then taking a vacation. So some people are like, I only want to work a few hours a day and then enjoy the rest of the day. I'm like, no, I want to go hard and work toward a goal, then I want to completely unplug for a week and go somewhere with a beach and a palm tree and a sunshine and an umbrella drink. So to me, that's what success looks like, is that opportunity to get away, to have fun, to do something different, and also enjoy the work that I'm doing every single day and find joy in that too.

Shanna Skidmore (33:11):

Yeah. Oh, I think that's so good. I had a friend tell me a long time ago, she's like, Shanna, you work at 180 or zero, maybe it would just be better if you worked at 90 all the time. And for me, Sarah, for a long time I felt that something was wrong with me or that I needed to change myself. Can't you just show up at 90% all the time? But I've learned to start embracing more of I have sprint seasons and I have snooze seasons. That's what I call 'em, sprinting or snoozing and embracing that 180 or zero. And in that 180, I'm learning to pre-plan in advance. So for other people it looks like I'm showing up at 90% all the time, but I just have accepted about myself. I work in big chunks and then I need big chunks. So again, business besties, same that how my mind works as well. I've also learned that with having my daughter, Madeline, I'm also somebody, I'm just now accepting the fact that I'm like, I need to be on work and off work. I need a very clear on and off, and I wish that I could have everything integrate and flow easily together, but I've just learned about myself. I need on and off. And I think learning how you work best is not as easy as it sounds, but I love

Sara Dunn (34:27):

That you've figured that out. And it's so easy to listen to how other people work and think that's what you're supposed to do, especially people who are successful. They're like, oh, I run a successful business and I only work 10 to three, four days a week. I'm like that. I don't know if I would like that. Yeah, I don't think that that's necessarily what I want, but if I can go hard and then go to an island for a week, that's what I want to do.

Shanna Skidmore (34:52):

Yeah. I love that so much. Sarah, thank you so much. It's been so fun to hear about your journey and how you've grown the business. I want to pick your brain so much more about, I actually feel like your strength is one of my weaknesses. And so it's just so interesting to see your brain work and okay, the strategy of getting clients and niching down and even creating offers that people are asking for, that is a skillset. I hope you recognize what a gift your brain is. So I'm excited for people to get to connect with you and for you to continue offering SEO to more industries, maybe putting that bug in your ear.

Sara Dunn (35:31):

Well, I appreciate that. And you're right. I think we don't necessarily think about our gifts enough and the things that come easily to us, we don't necessarily recognize those are strengths or skills because they're easy. So thanks for being my business bestie, and I think we need those people from the outside that are like, you're so good at this. Do you realize how special that

Shanna Skidmore (35:53):

Is? Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Let's go into a quick fire round before we say goodbye. This is one of my favorites. Okay, few questions for you. What is one thing you would be embarrassed if people knew?

Sara Dunn (36:07):

All right, so my dirty little secret is that I love gardening, which feels so nerdy. I am someone with a long list of nerdy things I love, but 2020 turned me into a gardener and I spend hours watching gardening YouTube videos.

Shanna Skidmore (36:22):

This makes me so happy because I also love gardening. This is getting weird at this point. That's a fun. Do you vegetable gardening, flower gardening, all of the above.

Sara Dunn (36:32):

Landscape gardening. Okay. So I had a friend, she sent me a bunch of allium bulbs, so we just had a whole text conversation, how are your bulbs coming up? So landscaping for me.

Shanna Skidmore (36:42):

Okay. This is awesome. I love it. I love your nerdy things. Okay. Any regrets or wish you could do over moments?

Sara Dunn (36:49):

This sounds insane. I know, but I really feel like the things that don't go well are the best lessons we can learn. And so I don't know if I necessarily have a wish I could do over, but a, I'm going to do that better next time. And I was a college golfer, so having a short memory is also really important. When you're upset about something, it's important to just move forward and think how you're going to attack the next thing or the next hole, the next shot, things like that. So I'm more of a be glad for the lessons.

Shanna Skidmore (37:22):

Yeah, that's good. All right. A big win or pinch me moment.

Sara Dunn (37:26):

I was thinking about this and one of the things that I remember was speaking for Wedding Pro for the first time, I really felt like this is the company that owns the Knot and Wedding wire. And being asked to stand on their stage really felt like getting to a place that I couldn't believe that I got to with the wedding industry as my audience and favorite people. So that was very much standing on that stage felt like a can't believe I'm here kind of moment.

Shanna Skidmore (37:56):

Yeah. Oh, that's so good. Okay, I'm going to put this in your ear. Before we hang up, I want you to share maybe a couple pointers on seo, but let's finish quick fire, and then I want to put that in your ear. Okay. Number four, best advice ever received?

Sara Dunn (38:11):

Oh, so my secret business mentor is Sarah Blakely from Spanx, and I love that she once said, don't be intimidated by what you don't know. Move forward anyway. Don't feel like you have to have all the answers, and I think that's really important for all of us as entrepreneurs because you just can't know everything and you just have to move forward the best you can with the knowledge you have.

Shanna Skidmore (38:32):

Yeah, that's so good. Okay, last quick fire question. What are you working on now or one resource that you would like to share?

Sara Dunn (38:41):

So speaking of offering what people ask me for, I recently have had a lot of web designers start to attend my SEO Lunch and Learns, which are my free 30 minute monthly sessions about seo. And so right now I am launching for the first time an SEO for Web Designers workshop. Super excited about it to kind of reach out to a new audience and again, just see how it goes in a really low investment. I'm going to put it out there and see how it works kind of way.

Shanna Skidmore (39:10):

Okay. I love it. This is so exciting. SEL luncheon learns. I'm adding that to the resources links. Tell us for anyone listening, likely a small business owner who is definitely going to reach out to you, what would you say are a couple things you wish more people would know about getting recognized online? I know that's super broad and I did not prepare you for this question, but if there's anything that you would want to share, give it to

Sara Dunn (39:38):

Us. Yeah. About SEO specifically.

Shanna Skidmore (39:39):

Yes.

Sara Dunn (39:40):

Yes. So it's really important if you want to show up on a search engine, you have to understand what people are actually searching for related to what you do. And this is a step a lot of people skip over because they make assumptions. They're like, I want to get found for financial business coach or something like that that they've made up in their head and they're like, this is how I categorize myself. The problem is people may not be searching for exactly that phrase, or they may not know that your service and what you offer even exists. So what we do is called keyword research, and essentially that means trying to figure out what people are actually searching for so that you can then figure out how to serve them. So that is step number one. If you want to get found on search engines, you have to understand what your ideal client is searching for.

(40:32)
And you can do that either through directly asking them, which is like the easiest way. Hey, if you were searching for what I had to offer, what would you type into Google? It's an easy question to ask your audience. The other thing you can do is use an SEO tool. I love one that's called Uber Suggest. That tool allows anyone to do three free searches a day. So you can go to that tool and type in something that you think people are searching for. It will tell you if they actually are and give you recommendations for related keywords along with something that's called monthly search volume. So how many times every single month people search for that phrase, and that's really where you have to start if you want to show up on Google.

Shanna Skidmore (41:12):

Okay. So good. That's like genius in a moment. I'm going to add that to the podcast Genius moment from Sarah. This was so much fun. I love that we connected. I know that we're going to stay connected. Thank you for sharing your business journey and just the power that niching down can have because that can have a lot of fear associated with it, but there's so much freedom and being specific. I would teach all my clients until you know what you do and are clear about that your client can't be, and so understanding that really clear. Okay, let's send it off. Sarah, what would you tell yourself on day one of starting your business?

Sara Dunn (41:50):

I really want to tell day one of business, Sarah, that no phase of a business or career is a waste of time. So anything that you try to do that you set out to do, you will learn something from. So even if it crashes and burns like my wine importing business, there are so many lessons I learned through that period of time, and as long as you take the time to reflect and think about those and learn, none of that was time wasted.

Shanna Skidmore (42:19):

Sarah, thank you for your time today sharing your story. It's been such a joy to get to know you Kindred spirits.

Sara Dunn (42:25):

Yes, thanks for being my business bestie. It was great to get to talk to everyone.

Shanna Skidmore (42:30):

Hey, wildflower, you just finished another episode of Consider the Wildflowers the podcast. Head over to consider the wildflowers podcast.com for show notes, resource links, and to learn how you can connect with Sarah. A little sunshine from our wildflower of the week, Theresa writes what we all want to hear, inspiring and genuine. It is so refreshing to listen to Shanna's interviews. It is like listening to old friends chat about all the good and the challenging parts of entrepreneur life. Shanna's Podcast delivers so many nuggets of wisdom in a genuine and heartfelt format. Thank you, Shanna. Well, thank you Miss Teresa. Y'all, seriously are the best listeners a girl could ask for one final thought for you to chew on today from Miss Sarah Blakely. Don't be intimidated by what you don't know. That can be your greatest strength and ensure that you can do things differently from everyone else. As always, thank you for listening. I'll see you next time.